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View Full Version : PK not op as everyone says Berserker is up there



STAR_Detox
04-03-2017, 12:01 AM
im not a pk mian btw .everyone says PK op sure her zone attack is i agree with that but her light attack speed and its hard to block other characters have that to like Valkyrie and berserker. but berserker damage output to super ridiculous me and my friends are getting one shot by berserkers all the time highest damge ive seen by berserker is 104 and thats just revenge alone with a top heavy.

im not one to get rekt hard then go on the fourm and cry for a nerf like everyone else i give it time and multiple occurrences

UbiJurassic
04-03-2017, 12:25 AM
In terms of hero balance, Berserker has been flying under the radar lately. He is actually one of the least picked heroes and we recently announced plans to adjust him. We don't have plans to nerf him yet, but the more players that use him and fight him, the more feedback we can use to investigate and decide his future balancing.

Bob__Gnarly
04-03-2017, 12:52 AM
Mate Berserker is one of the weakest classes in the game, I have one at prestige 2 and he's just a pain in the *** to use. I've actually shelved him until he gets some much needed love. Try using one and see how you go. You may wreck complete noobs, but anyone that can block/parry will dominate you. There's a reason you don't see many around at high level play.

CaptainPwnet
04-03-2017, 01:12 AM
im not a pk mian btw .everyone says PK op sure her zone attack is i agree with that but her light attack speed and its hard to block other characters have that to like Valkyrie and berserker. but berserker damage output to super ridiculous me and my friends are getting one shot by berserkers all the time highest damge ive seen by berserker is 104 and thats just revenge alone with a top heavy.

im not one to get rekt hard then go on the fourm and cry for a nerf like everyone else i give it time and multiple occurrences

The only thing you actually mention is top heavy. Only way he can get one is GB>wall stagger, or if you just didnt block/parry it. It's very slow and GB counters are not hard. All of his attacs are no faster, in fact they are slower than those of others like PK. Other than that zerker has almost literally ZERO useful tools outside his sort of fast side lights. Yes he can do big damage with top heavies and can even do side heavy>top heavy on knockdowns. But Many characters can do big damage in single hits and still have other useful tools like nobushi who is still bad but zerker is definitely not as good as her even lol.

Especially if you are talking about revenge, everyone can do crazy damage in revenge and this is a non issue as far as character balance is concerned. This is a revenge issue. Shug's can 1 shot 4 people potentially. Warden top heavies do crazy damage, so do nobu top heavies, as well as PK grab and stab if they are in revenge. But yeah there is a definite reason you see very few zerkers in all modes. They are very bad against anyone at mid-high lvl play. They can get some freebies with latency issues in dom sometimes. But in legit 1v1's they are quite useless lol.

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 01:13 AM
Not touching this one with a standard length bargepole, already been in one pk thread today.

cragar212
04-03-2017, 01:48 AM
Problem with zerker is he has 2 play styles 1 - Basic and 2 - Complex with little mid ground.

1 - You do infinite light chains and side step attacks. Once you run into people who can parry and feint this style is weak.

2 - Intricite feint game. Requires alot of effort and mind games. Quite strong imo and keeps zerker in middle tier. The effort required to play this style makes alot of people chose characters like pk instead.

Dunno how to fix. Zerker ZA could def use a rework kinda meh as is

DvlDawg15
04-03-2017, 01:55 AM
The problem with seeker is that at the start, due to his higher difficulty to play, he wasn't a common choice, and the only ones playing him are mostly noobs spamming side lights into guard break for an execute...

Now he's being used by people trying to "git gud " with him after a buff was announced to be coming as the majority of the player base will always go for fotm picks... anyone who played wow pvp is familiar with how this goes.

Buff a character, pick it, get nerfed as it's overpicked, and new buffed character repeats the cycle over and over...

pmkr0
04-03-2017, 03:12 AM
The only thing you actually mention is top heavy. Only way he can get one is GB>wall stagger, or if you just didnt block/parry it. It's very slow and GB counters are not hard. All of his attacs are no faster, in fact they are slower than those of others like PK. Other than that zerker has almost literally ZERO useful tools outside his sort of fast side lights. Yes he can do big damage with top heavies and can even do side heavy>top heavy on knockdowns. But Many characters can do big damage in single hits and still have other useful tools like nobushi who is still bad but zerker is definitely not as good as her even lol.

Especially if you are talking about revenge, everyone can do crazy damage in revenge and this is a non issue as far as character balance is concerned. This is a revenge issue. Shug's can 1 shot 4 people potentially. Warden top heavies do crazy damage, so do nobu top heavies, as well as PK grab and stab if they are in revenge. But yeah there is a definite reason you see very few zerkers in all modes. They are very bad against anyone at mid-high lvl play. They can get some freebies with latency issues in dom sometimes. But in legit 1v1's they are quite useless lol.

why shouldn't his attacks be slower than a pk ?
Watch truetalent play raider maybe you will see he is not bad att all and with revenge he can instakill you. In 3 heavy hits he kills a warlord. Thats bs

Delectable_Sin
04-03-2017, 04:35 AM
Bruv, the Zerker has the lowest pick rate in the game and the second lowest win rate in the game. The Zerker is also the buggiest character in the game. The poor bastard just needs some love.

I have no idea how someone could possibly think the Zerker is OP, he/she's damn close to being a pile of trash.

Vingrask
04-03-2017, 05:16 AM
Berserker can be overpower against new players or less skilled ones. When the game match me against those players (I only play duels because I don't care about orders) I tend to slow down and be a practice mate.

When I face my level of players, things change completly. I need to feint a lot. I feint more than any other player I ever faced and this way I can beat even the called overpower (Warlord, Peacekeeper, Warden).

My start was really bad: people learned to parry before I understand Berserkers feint, so 43% was my winrate. Today I'm at 54% I think (most because I've get lazy after rematch too much against someone), and I improved that with a lot of effort. Some rounds almost finish by time with me attacking and feinting and the enemies turtling, specially against Shugoki and Lawbringer (some Conquerors too).

I have a lot of experience with him and I studied everything I could by myself, without read other players gameplay. I have my own playstyle, and I fear they break it. I don't know what can be done for Berserker except improve his speed (guard break, dodge attack, heavy during combo).
His damage is apropriate. His tools are very strong, but very hard to master. In fact, this difficulty is the reason I think players do not use him. Compared to Orochi which have some "guaranteed" chains that punish the enemy with a lot of damage, Berserker need to "milk" it (the same problem Lawbringer face).

So please, Ubisoft, don't dumb down the Berserker, watch it carefully.

bmason1000
04-03-2017, 05:36 AM
Dunno how to fix. Zerker ZA could def use a rework kinda meh as is
I am a huge fan of his zone, use it frequently and rarely to my detriment. It has a situational niche for sure but it is incredibly handy. I'd go in to detail to defend it but I don't want to divulge trade secrets...we berserkers can't afford it.

Bruv, the Zerker has the lowest pick rate in the game and the second lowest win rate in the game. The Zerker is also the buggiest character in the game. The poor bastard just needs some love.

I have no idea how someone could possibly think the Zerker is OP, he/she's damn close to being a pile of trash.

Woah, woah man...leave my berserker alone. Those are some harsh words, dude haha

Jolvark
04-03-2017, 05:45 AM
im not a pk mian btw .everyone says PK op sure her zone attack is i agree with that but her light attack speed and its hard to block other characters have that to like Valkyrie and berserker. but berserker damage output to super ridiculous me and my friends are getting one shot by berserkers all the time highest damge ive seen by berserker is 104 and thats just revenge alone with a top heavy.

im not one to get rekt hard then go on the fourm and cry for a nerf like everyone else i give it time and multiple occurrences

Top parry = gg Berserker

SendRickPics
04-03-2017, 07:02 AM
In terms of hero balance, Berserker has been flying under the radar lately. He is actually one of the least picked heroes and we recently announced plans to adjust him. We don't have plans to nerf him yet, but the more players that use him and fight him, the more feedback we can use to investigate and decide his future balancing.

The biggest issue with berserker is the spammable chains that don't end even if you block them, that and the unbelievable stunlocks that they have. You get clipped, you're stunlocked for another hit or two.

It makes them able to chain their hits for a lot of damage and just cheese you down with that.

DrExtrem
04-03-2017, 08:07 AM
Top parry = gg Berserker

Off course. Or crushing counter.

My problem is, that people use it very, very rarely. Without practice, it is hard to parry or counter strike it. Sadly I can not tell the bots: "hey bot. Please use this certain underused skill, so I can train its counter."

The berserker is a mixed bag. If they use heavy strikes, they get eaten alive. If they spam lights, they will likely win, because at some point, you will miss a block. I am ashamed to say, that I can not parry light attacks, I can not even see in the ui. If they mix sidestep attacks, its better. I can parry most of them. But the light chains in general are a nightmare.

They plague the low to mid tier gameplay like locusts. Easy technique with high effect. Btw. what some of you guys call mid level gameplay, is already mid to high level stuff. I guess that only the top 20 to 25% of the players can actually deal with light spam and spam in general. Hell ... 80% of the players i meet can not even counter one GB, and fever can do it regularly.

JayyRupp
04-03-2017, 08:16 AM
im not a pk mian btw .everyone says PK op sure her zone attack is i agree with that but her light attack speed and its hard to block other characters have that to like Valkyrie and berserker. but berserker damage output to super ridiculous me and my friends are getting one shot by berserkers all the time highest damge ive seen by berserker is 104 and thats just revenge alone with a top heavy.

im not one to get rekt hard then go on the fourm and cry for a nerf like everyone else i give it time and multiple occurrences

You probably play with low MMR players. PK & Weebo King fill EVERY game mode at higher levels. Berserker? Lul.

suboptiml
04-03-2017, 04:50 PM
Been maining Zerk for 2-3 weeks now and my biggest fear is they'll over-buff us.

Zerk is clearly not op. But we have tools that if you work on your deflects and your feint/mind game you can compete well. But it takes a lot of work to achieve the same results other classes get for far easier. And with little room for error. You need to be aggressive, smart and on-point. We're so short-ranged, we are easily punished for our mistakes and mis-timings.

We do potentially a lot of damage, but we need to feint/gb a lot to get it. Our light/heavy chain is good, but easily parryable (opponent always knows when heavy is coming). We've got a great deflect (GB on success), but deflects are as high risk/reward as it gets. We've got the highest OOS knockdown punish in the game, but it has short range and a narrow window to achieve.

I'm an average-to-occasionally-decent player. I find a lot of satisfaction in playing the class. It rewards good play and punishes bad. It has no real cheese abilities. And it's not overpowered. When I do win, I know I earned it through my play. When I lose I generally feel like I could of played better.

The worst thing that could happen to the class is getting overbuffed with something like more speed and becoming grossly op like PKs are. It would not only op us, but undermine both the play-style of the class and the core mechanics of the game (again, like PK's combination of speed and damage does).

We don't need any sort of nerf. But we don't need much of a buff either. And the class should *not* be made easier to play in any way.

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 05:11 PM
Been maining Zerk for 2-3 weeks now and my biggest fear is they'll over-buff us.

Zerk is clearly not op. But we have tools that if you work on your deflects and your feint/mind game you can compete well. But it takes a lot of work to achieve the same results other classes get for far easier. And with little room for error. You need to be aggressive, smart and on-point. We're so short-ranged, we are easily punished for our mistakes and mis-timings.

We do potentially a lot of damage, but we need to feint/gb a lot to get it. Our light/heavy chain is good, but easily parryable (opponent always knows when heavy is coming). We've got a great deflect (GB on success), but deflects are as high risk/reward as it gets. We've got the highest OOS knockdown punish in the game, but it has short range and a narrow window to achieve.

I'm an average-to-occasionally-decent player. I find a lot of satisfaction in playing the class. It rewards good play and punishes bad. It has no real cheese abilities. And it's not overpowered. When I do win, I know I earned it through my play. When I lose I generally feel like I could of played better.

The worst thing that could happen to the class is getting overbuffed with something like more speed and becoming grossly op like PKs are. It would not only op us, but undermine both the play-style of the class and the core mechanics of the game (again, like PK's combination of speed and damage does).

We don't need any sort of nerf. But we don't need much of a buff either. And the class should *not* be made easier to play in any way.

A very honest and thorough assessment of your main, I like. As a PK main we are where you don'twant to be through overbuffing, we have a diverse kit if you actually go into it, like I could throw a heavy, dodge cancel into a heavy in a different direction and throw a light after impact for deep gouge but most people only seem to use the light spam and the occasional guardbreak which leads into the main problem that the peacekeeper has speed and damage and damage over time and range (those dodges) and they only give up about 10 hp for it. I actually stopped using peacekeeper for a good while but I figured that one less actually using her kit wasn't helping the matter any.

I wanted to main pk before I got the game and before I knew any of her capabilities, I would honestly main her if she were the hardest in the game to get a win with because to me, dual wielding knight assassin, that ticks most of the boxes in a character I want to play in any fighting game let alone a medieval one. It is why a few of us are kind of making noise on light spam, it frustrates me to see pk's doing that more than you could believe. The devs don't want to touch the speed but something else does need to give.

suboptiml
04-03-2017, 09:02 PM
I hear you. I criticize the PK a lot, but it's not because I want to see the class weak. I want it to be a strong and fun class to play with/against.

The problem right now is she's not fun to fight against, because it plays like a class from a different game. One based all on twitch. The problem with the PK, imo, is the combination of her speed and damage output (and her high mobility to escape OOS punishment).

Like you said, something's gotta give. Facing her degenerates the game almost completely into a test of her opponent's reflexes. No mind gaming nor class understanding required. She needs to be slowed down and/or her light damage lessened dramatically and her mobility shortened so she can't just back dash when OOS. And concurrently, if necessary, given other tools to mix up her options. So she's not overall weak, but plays more like a solid class from this game.

With For Honor they've managed to make a game where you don't need top of the line reflexes to compete. There are reactions involved, obviously. And better reflexes help, obviously. But they are overshadowed by the other core mechanics. So people with slower reflexes but smart gameplay have a decent fighting chance. Except against PK. Vsing her is currently all twitch. And that the devs are refusing to realize that is very discouraging. Hell, their response is a tone-deaf damage buff to her deflect. Her deflect should be made more attractive sure, but without a corresponding nerf to her other damage then all they've managed is to increase her ability to kill even easier without addressing what is actually making her op. Again, a tone-deaf, discouraging response.

Dekallis
04-03-2017, 09:14 PM
Yes zerker has a ton of damage...but outside of an exhaustion punish or a wall throw he has no garunteed way of dealing mass damage. If you get hit by the top heavy and you aren't in one of the two previously mentioned situations you deserved to get hit. It's so slow that even raider and kensei can stuff it with a light assuming they can't be bothered to parry for some reason. He SHOULD be doing tons of damage when he puts you on the ground. but he has no real means of opening people up and his dauntless mode is lackluster because of the way the system works it won't even be active in 90% of battles you're in aside from beginnier fights.making his '5th attack' damage bonus moot.

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 09:22 PM
I hear you. I criticize the PK a lot, but it's not because I want to see the class weak. I want it to be a strong and fun class to play with/against.

The problem right now is she's not fun to fight against, because it plays like a class from a different game. One based all on twitch. The problem with the PK, imo, is the combination of her speed and damage output (and her high mobility to escape OOS punishment).

Like you said, something's gotta give. Facing her degenerates the game almost completely into a test of her opponent's reflexes. No mind gaming nor class understanding required. She needs to be slowed down and/or her light damage lessened dramatically and her mobility shortened so she can't just back dash when OOS. And concurrently, if necessary, given other tools to mix up her options. So she's not overall weak, but plays more like a solid class from this game.

With For Honor they've managed to make a game where you don't need top of the line reflexes to compete. There are reactions involved, obviously. And better reflexes help, obviously. But they are overshadowed by the other core mechanics. So people with slower reflexes but smart gameplay have a decent fighting chance. Except against PK. Vsing her is currently all twitch. And that the devs are refusing to realize that is very discouraging. Hell, their response is a tone-deaf damage buff to her deflect. Her deflect should be made more attractive sure, but without a corresponding nerf to her other damage then all they've managed is to increase her ability to kill even easier without addressing what is actually making her op. Again, a tone-deaf, discouraging response.

Yeah I hear that and the thing is something does need to be done pretty soon and it needs to come from the devs because right now on one side you have people who will shout all day that there is nothing wrong and on the other you have people who want nothing less than her to be deleted or blacklisted from tournaments and there is very little middle ground. Right now, streamers aren't helping matters either, telling their fanbase oh I have a low level peacekeeper and I am going to enter a tournament to prove a point. Case in point, in a thread saying peacekeeper needs to be deleted, someone posted a video of a peacekeeper against a nobushi, apparently to show us everything wrong with the peacekeeper. The guy playing her, while telling everyone no one needs to practice with her to be good, executed eleven offensive and defensive moves in the space of a round, all of which needing different timings, hell he double stabbed and kicked into a wall,lunged, deep gouge whereas anyone new would have just triple shanked their opponent, in that round there was just one light attack. The bandwagon is so mindless now that people can't even tell the difference between good play and the kind of play that got people disliking her to begin with.

And I get what you are saying,some of us had a thread after the announced nerfs and we were saying exactly the same thing.