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View Full Version : Don't Nerf Revenge/Revenge Gear!!!



Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 11:16 AM
Before you judge this by its title and post that revenge mode needs to be nerfed to HELL, please read this thread thoroughly. If you have any reasons why it should be nerfed ill gladly start a friendly arguement with you as to why it shouldn't be, unless your reason is completely valid in my eyes. Thank you.
Don't nerf revenge/revenge gear and I have very good reason why it shouldn't be nerfed:
Revenge is made to give outnumbered players a chance in combat. But before we cover why this is CRITICALLY important, lets cover 1 v 1 revenge mode:
In 1 v 1, if someone uses revenge, you can easily run/backroll to avoid their revenge, or make their meter die down. That is a very simple solution to revenge in 1 v 1. If they gain revenge: Exit guard mode and run, their revenge meter will gradually go down the longer you aren't targetting them. If they already used revenge, immediately backroll and keep backstepping until it wears off. Go full defense mode. This is very simple to do and eliminates the danger of revenge in a 1 v 1.
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Now, onto being double/triple/quadruple teamed:
As stated before, revenge mode gives outnumbered players a chance. It's built like this: The more people actively targetting you through Guard-Mode, the more revenge you will gain by defense/injury. It's that simple. People with revenge gear can get revenge almost IMMEDIATELY when outnumbered. Why is this completely fair? What is the name of the game? For Honor. Player's should be PUNISHED for double teaming. It violates exactly what this game represents, honor! In fact, if you are outnumbered, i think you should have a HIGHER chance of winning than if you weren't outnumbered. People will outnumber a warden with maxed gear, and then when the warden wipes 4 players at once, they say it should be nerfed, but the fault lies in them for being dishonorable. So yes, if you are outnumbered, you should be able to get revenge asap so you can wipe the players who decide to be dishonorable.
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To Put It Simply, Bottom line: Revenge should not be nerfed at all. The name of the game is For Honor, therefore, if you decide to be dishonorable you should be punished for it. If someone decides to doubleteam, the person they're doubleteaming should be able to get revenge asap and punish them for being dishonorable.
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Also, gear is a different story. Matchmaking should make you choose your character and loadout BEFORE entering the match, so it can match you with people of EQUAL gear level and experience. This is a very simple way to eliminate the risk of being put in an unfair match! :)
Check out my idea of how to fix matchmaking for more information: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1622609-Here-s-a-good-way-to-fix-matchmaking
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Post edit: After seeing a few valid arguments (and many unvalid/easily counterable arguements), the best arguments ive seen is how people say revenge is not working the way it was intended to work. Therefore, a slight adjustment is valid? If revenge is meant to give you a chance to call for help or atleast to fight back, here is a good way to tweak it: lower revenge mode offense considerably by removing knockdown on hit (conqueror shield bash, warlord headbutt, etc), and lower/remove revenge mode extra damage; but buff revenge mode defense by atleast 50%. This way revenge mode cannot be used as an "i win" mode, but instead can be used as an extra boost in survival to call for help or atleast have a chance to fight back when outnumbered.
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I will update this for more reasons why revenge/revenge gear should not be nerfed. Thank you for reading, post your opinion down below as to why you agree/disagree.

Specialkha
04-02-2017, 11:26 AM
Just no.

Xedius2142
04-02-2017, 11:28 AM
The only thing that needs to get out of this game is the gear.In 1 vs 1 there is no gear.Greedy Ubisoft as always.I hope Vivendi will get them this year :))

ArlianDeBias
04-02-2017, 11:28 AM
I completely agree with you, Mercy_Z7X.

I think you'll find the majority of people who complain about revenge gear are the same people who just stand still and try and spam attacks on a revenged enemy.

Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 11:30 AM
Exactly, when someone uses revenge you cant just charge in, you have to play defensively and fast when dealing with someone with revenge!

Specialkha
04-02-2017, 11:30 AM
If you want honor, go 1v1

Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 11:32 AM
It shouldn't be that way. All game modes should uphold what the game is about, honor.

Tocki92
04-02-2017, 11:34 AM
But many people prevent from getting executed in a 1vs1 by pressing revenge in the right moment. What's with that? Still legit?
So no revenge in 1vs1 at least. Decrease the revenge boost in ganking a bit.

Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 11:38 AM
Read what i said, which is so true it hurts. And a perfectly valid reason why revenge should stay the way it is:
"If they gain revenge: Exit guard mode and run, their revenge meter will gradually go down the longer you aren't targetting them. If they already used revenge, immediately backroll and keep backstepping until it wears off. Go full defense mode. This is very simple to do and eliminates the danger of revenge in a 1 v 1."

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 12:01 PM
The devs made it very clear, revenge was supposed to give you a chance to fight back, not turn into an automatic I win button because someone sneezed on you.

kweassa1917
04-02-2017, 12:18 PM
Being ganked is basically a result of BAD SITUATIONAL AWARENESS.

So just like you would be punished in any 1v1 scenario where you made bad judgement, getting outnumbered is simply a tactical mistake. The whole point of team fights is that 4 people use their brains to move around support each other, sometimes act solo, other times move in numbers, etc etc the tactical choices made.


But instead, currently PEOPLE TAKE IT FOR GRANTED that it's an "I WIN" button. Classes like Warlords purposefully seek out multi fights for back-to-back near-perma revenge. Instead of being punished for making a bad judgement, you're actually rewarded for it. If you have an enemy Warlord/Conq player that is higher in gear level, then basically there's no chasing him off from any of the side nodes.

So tell me how this is supposed to make sense again?

What do you do when you're outnumbered? YOU DIE. That's what's supposed to happen.

Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 12:25 PM
.

Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 12:26 PM
The devs made it very clear, revenge was supposed to give you a chance to fight back, not turn into an automatic I win button because someone sneezed on you.

So getting 4 v 1'd means you automatically lose to dishonor? It shouldn't give you a chance to "fight back" it should give you a high chance of winning due to the fact that they were dishonorable. If they nerf revenge because of this then the devs dont care about what the games title says/means.

Vordred
04-02-2017, 12:34 PM
if you basically want duels, play duel.

i kind of wish they had called the game something else. though it's called For Honour, not With Honour.

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 12:36 PM
So getting 4 v 1'd means you automatically lose to dishonor? It shouldn't give you a chance to "fight back" it should give you a high chance of winning due to the fact that they were dishonorable. If they nerf revenge because of this then the devs dont care about what the games title says/means.

I don't know if you're trolling at this point.

Revenge was not in the game to begin with from what I can gather (didn't do the betas, so others would need to confirm) but people complained about being put in 1vx situations so the devs did something. They have since felt that it is negatively affecting gameplay and are balancing it, this happens when they put something in without having thought to originally because there was an issue, you don't want it to tip things the other way. As to if you should lose if you get into 1v4, there was a rule of thumb when I played Destiny pvp and it would appear it is the same here, don't get into a fight you can't finish, and you know what? If we're looking at the game being more realistic than manga then I am fine with that. Unless you are in duel(and hey I am not knocking that, it is what I play most of), you are in a battlefield scenario, someone starts beating on the guy you trained with or are friends with for the past however long, you're not going to just stand there.

Revenge is a chance for your team to come help out if you're holding zone, it is a chance to call for help if you're anywhere else, what it isn't meant to be is super saiyan 'I win' mode.

kweassa1917
04-02-2017, 12:44 PM
So getting 4 v 1'd means you automatically lose to dishonor?

What do you think a battle is, a gentleman's duel? If you want that stuff there's 2v2s and 1v1s. Besides, if you're 4v1d somewhere, then there are 3 people running free to take other nodes. Dominion isn't a elimination match. It's an objective-centered mode. Just hording into one big group is about the dumbest thing your team can do.



It shouldn't give you a chance to "fight back" it should give you a high chance of winning due to the fact that they were dishonorable

If you want 'honor' in a Dominion, simply seperate people forcibly and let them 1v1 in turn. There's your honorable fight right there. Wait, we already have that in game. It's called 1v1/2v2.



If they nerf revenge because of this then the devs dont care about what the games title says/means.

I'd like to think they don't care of people blinded by greed, and refuse to see how imbalanced stuff HURTS the game.Can't even count how many of my friends quit because of that bullsheez.

Flello
04-02-2017, 12:47 PM
There is no argument if your excuse is because of the games title. The title of a game does not dictate how it should be played, but by the mechanics themselves.

In my opinion, 1v1 revenge should not exist, period. Regardless of how easy it can be to avoid, it interrupts the flow of combat and forces you to play defensive when you see the big glowing icon, even if you're decimating your opponent.

In a 4v4 game mode, if you are outnumbered for any reason, it means your teammates have failed, and your opponents had the better team play for that round/fight. If I play an elimination game, I go into that game as a team of 4, if I get jumped by 3 opponents then they deserve the upper hand because they were the better team. No one should be 'punished' for outnumbering an opponent as a result of having the better team/strategy.

I honestly don't understand how it's so difficult for people to understand that 4v4 are team based modes, not queue up to fight 1v1, there's a perfectly good game mode for that.

Auztinito
04-02-2017, 12:48 PM
They should nerf it.Ok.Have you played against people that could revenge in 2-3 hits from only one person.That should not happen.That is exactly what is happening most of the time.

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 12:59 PM
Two important things:

1. The game is not about honour, at all
2. The official Ubisoft tooltip that can be found on loading screens in-game describes Revenge as 'a chance to survive when outnumbered'.

Chance
Survive
Outnumbered

Three very important words.

The fact that you're saying it's fine in 1 vs 1 is all I need to know.

JesterSyxe
04-02-2017, 12:59 PM
The Game is called "For Honor" not "With Honor" so there is no need to fight with Honor. And Revenge needs to be nerfed or better be taken out of the Game completely.

Egotistic_Ez
04-02-2017, 01:05 PM
So getting 4 v 1'd means you automatically lose to dishonor? It shouldn't give you a chance to "fight back" it should give you a high chance of winning due to the fact that they were dishonorable. If they nerf revenge because of this then the devs dont care about what the games title says/means.

With situational awareness and forward planning I frequently solo multiple players at once with my crappy grey gear (levelling a berserker atm). Don't rely on cheesey gear to win, learn to actually play. You might fail for a while, but you'll be better in the long run.

SlashingElbow
04-02-2017, 01:10 PM
if they destroy the revenge mode thing this game is def dead. BOYCOTT FOR HONOR. They dont even answer there damn customers. 3 tickets now and no answer.. Disgusting company

CoyoteXStarrk
04-02-2017, 01:12 PM
Revenge nerf is coming lol



You scrubs who can only do anything by spamming Revenge are gonna be screwed lol




I can't wait :)

SlashingElbow
04-02-2017, 01:16 PM
noobs like u are destroying every game there is with their complaining about good features in the game. U know how easy it is to dogde roll or grab someone who uses revenge? You guys are pure ****e

Mudflaaaps
04-02-2017, 01:18 PM
You people are idiots.

The dev team have admitted that revenge is way too powerful, not because people are crying or salty, but because they see people winning 1v4 fights and that is not in any sense fair.

Revenge gives an unfair advantage to the player.
True, ganking is cheap. But it's part of the game, if you're not working as a team (in team modes) then you deserve to be ganked, it's that simple.

Giving one player never ending health, higher damage, endless uninterruptable attacks and better defense is ruining the game, because characters are ALREADY capable of having a good fight against more than one enemy.

I have fought groups of 4 enemies and won countless times without revenge and frankly, I'm not that good.
I've even had the enemies activate revenge whilst ganking up on me and I've STILL won.

If you don't think revenge is OP, you're stupid and clearly terrible at the game.
Likely warlord players too, who have to rely on cheap cheesy tactics and OP characters.

When revenge is nerfed, I hope people like you move away from for honor. People like me will demolish you anyway, so your choice.

Hillbill79
04-02-2017, 01:20 PM
Revenge was broken as you were gaining revenge from both defence gain and injury gain at the same time, just by blocking. It shouldn't have stacked like that to begin with.. it was a bug.

So now you have to block twice as many hits or get hit twice as many times for the same revenge gain...

33% less revenge attack, and 33% less revenge defence.... its still gonna help you survive, but not dominate.... as it was intended to be.

They are not nerfing revenge.... they are fixing a broken mechanic. They are making it as they intended for it to be to begin with.

kanuzira
04-02-2017, 01:30 PM
I think they should nerf it hero specific because some people just get it after 2 hits. Attacking becomes difficult since your weapon just bounces off them if you hit and they revenge (COMPLETE BULLCRAP imo) and certain attacks become hyper spammable like pk zone, conqueror bash, warlord headbutt, warden+orochi beyblading etc. I dont need a pk that spams zone and receives 2 hits and can do it afain and again.

CoyoteXStarrk
04-02-2017, 01:33 PM
I think they should nerf it hero specific because some people just get it after 2 hits. Attacking becomes difficult since your weapon just bounces off them if you hit and they revenge (COMPLETE BULLCRAP imo) and certain attacks become hyper spammable like pk zone, conqueror bash, warlord headbutt, warden+orochi beyblading etc. I dont need a pk that spams zone and receives 2 hits and can do it afain and again.

Nope.


Across the board.


Revenge should be cut off at the knees. The game will be 1000% better for it

Mudflaaaps
04-02-2017, 01:51 PM
Totally what I think. Get rid of revenge completely in my opinion, it's not needed unless you're bad.

Alustar.
04-02-2017, 01:58 PM
I completely agree with you, Mercy_Z7X.

I think you'll find the majority of people who complain about revenge gear are the same people who just stand still and try and spam attacks on a revenged enemy.

That's actually not true, but that's ok I view anyone promoting to keep the revenge gear as is, unfavorably myself.

Anyone that thinks revenge is ok as is probably are the same trashy players who sit back and wait to for their buff to go off every four hits so they can fight.

I'm just letting you know it's posts like this is the exact reason I am doing my best to abuse the mechanic and make as many players rage quit and complain. Until Ubisoft changes this broken system.

Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 07:17 PM
.

Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 07:18 PM
Two important things:

1. The game is not about honour, at all
2. The official Ubisoft tooltip that can be found on loading screens in-game describes Revenge as 'a chance to survive when outnumbered'.

Chance
Survive
Outnumbered

Three very important words.

The fact that you're saying it's fine in 1 vs 1 is all I need to know.
I said it was not OVERPOWERED in 1 v 1, due to how easy it is to avoid it. Which i clearly stated how to avoid revenge entirely in 1 v 1.

Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 07:23 PM
One thing i knew that would come up, is the fact that the game's name is "for honor" not "with honor", one person i met ingame made this very clear while he was ganking the enemy team:
I fight for honor, not WITH honor"
So that's also a valid arguement. Well played.

Ontari
04-02-2017, 07:24 PM
How bad should one be, to be so afraid of nerfing an exploit.

Guys, as 360 have already said, this should only be a tool to give you a chance when outnumbered...

With this form of functioning, it gives really bad players a tool to completely wreck their enemies - like Warlord's headbutt spam that trips you off, over and over again. Sorry, but "heavier" characters like Kensei will never stand up in time to avoid being spammed to death.

Personally I think that revenge should be completely removed from the item stats. If possible, it should scale to the number of people attacking you at the same time, and be procedurally stronger with each enemy.

But such ridiculous things, as being able to 2-shot anyone or spam you to death should be long gone.

Death to noobs-exploiters!

Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 07:27 PM
What do you think a battle is, a gentleman's duel? If you want that stuff there's 2v2s and 1v1s. Besides, if you're 4v1d somewhere, then there are 3 people running free to take other nodes. Dominion isn't a elimination match. It's an objective-centered mode. Just hording into one big group is about the dumbest thing your team can do.




If you want 'honor' in a Dominion, simply seperate people forcibly and let them 1v1 in turn. There's your honorable fight right there. Wait, we already have that in game. It's called 1v1/2v2.




I'd like to think they don't care of people blinded by greed, and refuse to see how imbalanced stuff HURTS the game.Can't even count how many of my friends quit because of that bullsheez.
Valid arguement on the 1st and 3rd point, your 2nd point is somewhat questionable in the fact that all game modes should be honorable due to what the game is named, but your 2nd point is covered by the 1st.

Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 07:29 PM
How bad should one be, to be so afraid of nerfing an exploit.

Guys, as 360 have already said, this should only be a tool to give you a chance when outnumbered...

With this form of functioning, it gives really bad players a tool to completely wreck their enemies - like Warlord's headbutt spam that trips you off, over and over again. Sorry, but "heavier" characters like Kensei will never stand up in time to avoid being spammed to death.

Personally I think that revenge should be completely removed from the item stats. If possible, it should scale to the number of people attacking you at the same time, and be procedurally stronger with each enemy.

But such ridiculous things, as being able to 2-shot anyone or spam you to death should be long gone.

Death to noobs-exploiters!

As ive already mentioned, revenge is not overpowered. There is a VERY easy way to avoid a warlord's headbutt in revenge mode. Simply backroll then keep backstepping away until his revenge wears off. Did i not mention this in my post? You can easily retreat from a player's revenge!

Ontari
04-02-2017, 07:29 PM
Valid arguement on the 1st and 3rd point, your 2nd point is somewhat questionable in the fact that all game modes should be honorable due to what the game is named, but your 2nd point is covered by the 1st.

Man, even the bots are programmed to WIN. They throw you off the cliffs, gank you, help each other. Go play brawl vs AI on the Sanctuary Bridge. One bot will always first hurry to gank your teammate, unless you chase him.

And indeed, if you want to test your wits, go play duel or brawl. Unless you don't have balls to play without gear ;)

Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 07:31 PM
I completely agree with you, Mercy_Z7X.

I think you'll find the majority of people who complain about revenge gear are the same people who just stand still and try and spam attacks on a revenged enemy.

As he has said, which validly proves my point: revenge mode is not overpowered, its only overpowered if 2-4 people go wailing on one enemy then stand there while the enemy uses revenge and proceeds to spam all their abilities on the players. When someone uses revenge just retreat until it wears off! Its literally THAT simple. If you dont want a player to get revenge immediately? Don't 2-4 v 1 them, period.

Ontari
04-02-2017, 07:38 PM
Man, I'm really sad that you can't play without it, but I assure you, it get's more satisfying if you actually learn to play better!

Your methods of defending this exploit mode is only to "avoid it and wait for it to wear off" or "just dodge back".

Ok! you can do this. But it is to some degree "random". You can make it out if you are quick enough, relaxed and not after whole day of working.

But sometimes you just won't make it. PK will always catch you. Warlord will snitch out that headbutt during the fight. And then you are doomed to the mechanics that even DOESN'T WORK AS INTENDED (that is why Ubisoft will balance it! the creators of this game...)

I don't get it what do you don't understand? A mechanics that you have to "wait off" are nonsensical. They just slow the rhythm of ACTION GAME unnecesairly, or give bad players a chance do finally do something, instead of making them learn to play better.

Specialkha
04-02-2017, 07:39 PM
And why? 4v4 mode are team mode, hence number should be stronger than 1 person.

Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 07:40 PM
Man, I'm really sad that you can't play without it, but I assure you, it get's more satisfying if you actually learn to play better!

Your methods of defending this exploit mode is only to "avoid it and wait for it to wear off" or "just dodge back".

Ok! you can do this. But it is to some degree "random". You can make it out if you are quick enough, relaxed and not after whole day of working.

But sometimes you just won't make it. PK will always catch you. Warlord will snitch out that headbutt during the fight. And then you are doomed to the mechanics that even DOESN'T WORK AS INTENDED (that is why Ubisoft will balance it! the creators of this game...)

I don't get it what do you don't understand? A mechanics that you have to "wait off" are nonsensical. They just slow the rhythm of ACTION GAME unnecesairly, or give bad players a chance do finally do something, instead of making them learn to play better.

PK can catch you but her attacks arent unblockable. Warlord on the other hand, you can easily retreat from his headbutt during revenge mode. Your point with the "Warlord will snitch out that headbutt during the fight" is completely invalid, since if he uses revenge you can easily backroll and backstep.
I see why peacekeeper needs to be nerfed, especially her zone. But i find her attacks to DEFINETALLY be blockable. Its not that hard to block her attacks honestly. ESPECIALLY if you are not an assassin (meaning if you are able to hold a stance) If youre facing her, always guard in the direction of her zone, if she attacks in a different direction, block it and immediately switch back to guarding her zone, if she feints, immediately switch back to guarding her zone. I cannot see what is so hard about this. Her attacks are fast, but not lightning fast, and MUCH slower than the average human's reflexes from my experience.

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 07:45 PM
This horse, man, it's dead, beating it won't make it any deader.

More seriously this is kind of moot because the devs have decided that it negatively affects the game, they are dealing with it and will deal with it further.

Empty_Wanderer
04-02-2017, 07:49 PM
This horse, man, it's dead, beating it won't make it any deader.

More seriously this is kind of moot because the devs have decided that it negatively affects the game, they are dealing with it and will deal with it further.

Well, just my thoughts on the matter. Which ive clearly proven revenge isint quite overpowered if you know how to deal with it and dont mindlessly stand there when someone uses revenge, or mindlessly attack them. How can you complain about a warlord headbutt spamming during revenge when you can completely eliminate this risk by retreating shortly? It's funny.

MilkyBob.
04-02-2017, 07:53 PM
IMO, they should rework the revenge system completely:
1.If only 1 player is locked onto you and hits you, revenge will not be gainable AT ALL
2.If 2 players locked on to you and both hit you atleast 2 times you revenge meter should start rising 15% per hit, and the revenge gain should quicken as more players are locked onto you and hit you (3 players = 25% gain, 4 players = 34%)
3.When activated revenge mode, your heavy attacks should be 50% faster and deal 33% more damage, while light attacks do %20 more damage and are only 10% faster (to prevent Assasin spam)
4.Charging attacks (Conqueror's and Warden's bash, Warlord's headbutt, etc.) should knock multiple people over in a small radius if 3 or more players are ganking you
5.Revenge should last according to the number of players ganking you (2 players = 8 seconds, 3 players = 13, 4 players = 17)
6.Gear should not affect revenge (or any stats in general and be purely cosmetic, like Rainbow Six Siege or Team Fortress 2)
7.Attacks in revenge mode should be blockable (only if 3 or more are currently ganking you), and players in revenge mode cannot be guardbroken (2 or more)

Leave suggestions

Merlin4421
04-02-2017, 08:20 PM
Revenge is ok when it's 2v1 or more maybe a cool down or something on it. What is very annoying is when some get it 1v1. That shouldn't happen at all.

The_B0G_
04-02-2017, 10:10 PM
So if you're playing a 4v4 mode and one guy on the other team is really good, you just let him 1v1 everyone the whole game and dominate and win the match?

Or you go 2v1 on him and he gets his revenge in 3 blocks and CGBs everything so you have to just attack and try to get hits in because he turtles until his revenge is full and when that happens, we run away until it goes away? What does do for us, he will just get it again the next time we attack.

The mechanic was supposed to help out when outnumbered, not give you the advantage while being outnumbered, being outnumbered should always be a disadvantage.

Crackatawa96
04-03-2017, 09:19 AM
I said it was not OVERPOWERED in 1 v 1, due to how easy it is to avoid it. Which i clearly stated how to avoid revenge entirely in 1 v 1.

Okay, if it's SO easy as you say it is to just avoid it, then why keep it in 1v1? If literally anyone can avoid it 100%, what's the sense in keeping it? By your logic, removing it would have absolutely no effect on 1v1 since you can just run away from it to begin with.

TCTF_SWAT
04-03-2017, 09:26 AM
I find it odd how before once there was no official word on revenge nerfing there weren't topics like this (at least none that I saw). But the moment a nerf for it was announced...POOF outta the woddowkrs come the topics. Seems just rather.......odd.

Captain-Courage
04-03-2017, 09:56 AM
Talking about no revenge nerf and justifying by the name of the game, Honor ....
Not even viewing that "honor" is a subjective notion.
Not even understanding what the irony of the title is all about. Not even being able to see this everywhere written in flame letters in the sotry mode.

You can give every reason you find good from a gameplay point of view, how mechanicaly it is good or bad for the flow of a game, and they will be legit. But justifying it by the game's name ... come on, please, don't make yourself look so much uneducated .... Stupidity will reach new heights if it goes on.

Buyukbaba
04-03-2017, 10:19 AM
I don't know if you're trolling at this point.

Revenge was not in the game to begin with from what I can gather (didn't do the betas, so others would need to confirm) but people complained about being put in 1vx situations so the devs did something. They have since felt that it is negatively affecting gameplay and are balancing it, this happens when they put something in without having thought to originally because there was an issue, you don't want it to tip things the other way. As to if you should lose if you get into 1v4, there was a rule of thumb when I played Destiny pvp and it would appear it is the same here, don't get into a fight you can't finish, and you know what? If we're looking at the game being more realistic than manga then I am fine with that. Unless you are in duel(and hey I am not knocking that, it is what I play most of), you are in a battlefield scenario, someone starts beating on the guy you trained with or are friends with for the past however long, you're not going to just stand there.

Revenge is a chance for your team to come help out if you're holding zone, it is a chance to call for help if you're anywhere else, what it isn't meant to be is super saiyan 'I win' mode.

So, basically this means people will start another kind of complaining "again" when revenge is nerfed. It never ends.

In my opinion, revenge is very critical for surviving. Surviving means not dying when you are outnumbered. But everyone of us are playing this game and know how to be in a situation like 1v4. If revenge does not exist, you have "0" chance to survive. You can not run, you can not move one single hair if you are getting hit from all directions even in "revenge" mode.

Some people gives the honor for being a better team and demands for an automatic win if 1v4 occured but personally,I am playing elimination mostly alone and when i go into elimination "specifically" alone, i cannot decide my teammates. I cannot decide their gear levels, i cannot decide their past experiences and i cannot decide the actual situation of the opposing team as being a group of very high leveled and well experienced gang. So, does it mean i must lose that game since I love it playing solo?

Also, I think that everyone is missing one curicial matter in this game. Gear level. If someone is 108, he can easily manage dealing with a revenge activated rival by a proper defence. So the only matter is waiting and playing until gear level 108 for everyone. We are all having difficulties until rep 3, but then revenge is not really important which makes people hate being in against it.

I can partially accept nerfing revenge for dominion and skirmish and that really fits waiting for your teammates support idea, but for elimination i am completely against it. If you plan to play that mode single, you will generally be in a 1vx situation and you will lose.

In duels and even brawls, there should not be revenge mode activation. As a competent player, you must have proper skill to fight against 2 rivals at least.

These are my ideas. Revenge is certainly needed "unnerfed" in elimination. In other modes, nerfing is not really important.

kweassa1917
04-03-2017, 11:01 AM
Well, just my thoughts on the matter. Which ive clearly proven revenge isint quite overpowered if you know how to deal with it and dont mindlessly stand there when someone uses revenge, or mindlessly attack them. How can you complain about a warlord headbutt spamming during revenge when you can completely eliminate this risk by retreating shortly? It's funny.

Actually, what's even funnier is you say people "mindlessly stand there when someone uses revenge" and ridicule that, saying revenge is fine, but fail to recognize how stupid and mindless people are when they just wade into 2v1s and 3v1s in the first place.

2v1, 3v1, 4v1 is SUPPOSED to be difficult and deadly. That's why people try to avoid those situations in the first place.

So instead of demanding people learn to adapt to broken mechanics, it'd be more sound to demand people learn to not rely on a broken mechanic in the first place.

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 11:53 AM
So, basically this means people will start another kind of complaining "again" when revenge is nerfed. It never ends.

If it needs fixing again I am sure they willfix it again, in its current state it is broken.

In my opinion, revenge is very critical for surviving. Surviving means not dying when you are outnumbered. But everyone of us are playing this game and know how to be in a situation like 1v4. If revenge does not exist, you have "0" chance to survive. You can not run, you can not move one single hair if you are getting hit from all directions even in "revenge" mode.

In Destiny, first rule of the Crucible was don't get into a fight you can't win, I would guess it is the same for Halo, COD, Overwatch, any pvp game.

Some people gives the honor for being a better team and demands for an automatic win if 1v4 occured but personally,I am playing elimination mostly alone and when i go into elimination "specifically" alone, i cannot decide my teammates. I cannot decide their gear levels, i cannot decide their past experiences and i cannot decide the actual situation of the opposing team as being a group of very high leveled and well experienced gang. So, does it mean i must lose that game since I love it playing solo?

You have the same opportunities everyone else has, group up or take whatever gets given you in matchmaking. And before you say you don't have anyone that plays the game... http://forums.ubi.com/forumdisplay.php/1509-Looking-for-Groups

Also, I think that everyone is missing one curicial matter in this game. Gear level. If someone is 108, he can easily manage dealing with a revenge activated rival by a proper defence. So the only matter is waiting and playing until gear level 108 for everyone. We are all having difficulties until rep 3, but then revenge is not really important which makes people hate being in against it.

Machmaking isn't great right now, the devs know this, they are working on it. Until then, there is always AI mode to work on getting gear if it bothers you,others have also said screw gear score they have beaten people with 108 gear without having any.

I can partially accept nerfing revenge for dominion and skirmish and that really fits waiting for your teammates support idea, but for elimination i am completely against it. If you plan to play that mode single, you will generally be in a 1vx situation and you will lose.

The better team will win, if three people win their 1v1 or even if one of those become a brawl when someone runs to another, the team that won three of theirs don't deserve to lose because someone's revenge turned them into a super saiyan after two blocks.

In duels and even brawls, there should not be revenge mode activation. As a competent player, you must have proper skill to fight against 2 rivals at least.

Agreed, as I said, best team or player in the case of duel wins.

These are my ideas. Revenge is certainly needed "unnerfed" in elimination. In other modes, nerfing is not really important.

The devs disagree and given it was one of the most complained about things before the last warrior's den, I would guess a lot of the player base disagrees as well.

Dr-KaBoom
04-03-2017, 12:05 PM
The team that is outnumbering you is supposed to have an advantage. This is the advantage they earned by killing one of your team mates. It is very straight forward and logically and I can't fathom why people keep whining that they shouldn't be at a disadvantage when they are outnumbered. Revenge is supposed to give you a tiny chance to survive against outnumbered odds which it still will once it is nerfed.

WheepingSong
04-03-2017, 12:17 PM
How do people come to the conclusion that someone is to adapt an "honorable" fighting style just because the game is called "For Honor"? I don't get it.....

Why do you think Ubisoft made game modes like 4v4 or 2v2. to have a 8x 1v1 or a 1v1v1v1? They made them because they want to encourage teamwork. What teamwork is needed in 1v1 situations?

Also the argument: Revenge is easy do deal with in 1v1 is not valid at all. Everything is easy to deal with if you unlock an roll away....Also as others stated revenge was meant to be for 1vX situations. Even the devs stated this. So when you get rev. in 1v1 situations it is definitley not inteded.

IMMA_MAILGEYMER
04-03-2017, 12:29 PM
Gear as an option in 4v4, and everybody will be happy.

Buyukbaba
04-03-2017, 12:40 PM
If it needs fixing again I am sure they willfix it again, in its current state it is broken. /Not really, to a certain degree. Followings will support this.

In Destiny, first rule of the Crucible was don't get into a fight you can't win, I would guess it is the same for Halo, COD, Overwatch, any pvp game./ All these mentioned games have one shot/one kill opportunities. Headshot, special power, one shot one kill collectibles etc. It is not the same in for honor. You have no one shot one kill ability. Min 2 hits required with blocking risk. So, you can survive in all these games you counted as an example against all rival team to one, but not in for honor without revenge. I donot want to mention health or armour collectibles or health etc. feats as well.

You have the same opportunities everyone else has, group up or take whatever gets given you in matchmaking. And before you say you don't have anyone that plays the game... http://forums.ubi.com/forumdisplay.php/1509-Looking-for-Groups/ Thanks for the link, but i did not say i donot have friends to play with :), i said i may prefer or someone else may need to go into elimination solo. By the way, what is more frustrating than revenge is, seeing someone running away from you to group up with his friends. They may have strategies, ok, but what if I have not? Why am i supposed to be punished for this? Team play you may say,but that is not really a team play from my point of view.

Machmaking isn't great right now, the devs know this, they are working on it. Until then, there is always AI mode to work on getting gear if it bothers you,others have also said screw gear score they have beaten people with 108 gear without having any./ That is what i am trying to say. If someone is afraid of being rekt by revenge, he can try gearing up until 108 against AI, then go into elimination with revenge possibility. We are on the same boat actually.

The better team will win, if three people win their 1v1 or even if one of those become a brawl when someone runs to another, the team that won three of theirs don't deserve to lose because someone's revenge turned them into a super saiyan after two blocks./So you say, 3 people donot know how to handle one revenge guy in that situation. There are lots of things they can do, and I am sure you clearly know those things. Also, in revenge mode, there is very high chance to give revenge opportuiny to the opponent/s because it is not the same as normal attack. It does not counting as 1v4 after that moment as far as I know. This is game and it is not always about losing or winning. I can activate revenge this time, next round it may be you. As you said, we have all same opportunities in this game. I am trying to look at it from the fun part as well.

Agreed, as I said, best team or player in the case of duel wins./Same.

The devs disagree and given it was one of the most complained about things before the last warrior's den, I would guess a lot of the player base disagrees as well./ May be but nerfing should not make it useless but according to all stuff circulating around, they will ruin it. If this happens, then especially elimination will not be fun anymore.


There are lots of things can be talked about revenge thing. System is not perfect, especially on consoles, sometimes mechanics are not working ok, one miss of GB does not mean you are worse player than your opponent. Everything is considerable here. So, if it is being nerfed, devs should consider +/-'s very very carefully.

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 01:04 PM
There are lots of things can be talked about revenge thing. System is not perfect, especially on consoles, sometimes mechanics are not working ok, one miss of GB does not mean you are worse player than your opponent. Everything is considerable here. So, if it is being nerfed, devs should consider +/-'s very very carefully.

Ok,I'm not going off of player quotes here, I am going off the devs.

Revenge is not working as intended. Revenge is having a negative affect on the game.

This isn't some tournament and streamer collective trying to discourage people using something they don't like instead of trying to help fix it, this is according to the people who actually designed it. If you don't want to lose in a 1v4 don't get into a 1v4. Same as any other pvp.

kweassa1917
04-03-2017, 01:19 PM
If you don't want to lose in a 1v4 don't get into a 1v4. Same as any other pvp.

Same as any other domination PvP modes, as a matter of fact.

Dominion 4v4 is basically a standard domination type game with 3 nodes and featured in a boatload of MMOGs like Guild Wars series, SWTOR, Neverwinter, etc etc ad naseaum, and the basics are pretty much identical. Fast movement, mutual support, avoiding meaningless death by being cornered. Sometimes you do 2v1s or 3v1s if its absolutely necessary, like to stop enemy point generation, but at a great risk of it being pointless and meaningless death if you aren't skilled enough to actually overcome such odds. Usually a territory of very high level players, not anyone who just gets that ability through gear.

Being able to 2v1, 3v1 people and still come on top is something EARNED, not easily PURCHASED through items. Sure wish more people understood that, IMO.

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 01:22 PM
Same as any other domination PvP modes, as a matter of fact.

Dominion 4v4 is basically a standard domination type game with 3 nodes and featured in a boatload of MMOGs like Guild Wars series, SWTOR, Neverwinter, etc etc ad naseaum, and the basics are pretty much identical. Fast movement, mutual support, avoiding meaningless death by being cornered. Sometimes you do 2v1s or 3v1s if its absolutely necessary, like to stop enemy point generation, but at a great risk of it being pointless and meaningless death if you aren't skilled enough to actually overcome such odds. Usually a territory of very high level players, not anyone who just gets that ability through gear.

Being able to 2v1, 3v1 people and still come on top is something EARNED, not easily PURCHASED through items. Sure wish more people understood that, IMO.

I'm not really a hardcore pvp person, but I spent a lot of hours in Destiny's crucible, to the point I got one of the guns you can only get through jumping through hoops to up the relationship with the gunsmith, so yeah , sometimes you will get away with it but general rule of thumb is don't get into a situation you can't win to begin with.

Yarzahn
04-03-2017, 01:32 PM
Revenge is made to give outnumbered players a chance in combat.
Yes, it is. It's not made to turn you into a steroid monster killer.



Lets cover 1 v 1 revenge mode:
In 1 v 1, if someone uses revenge, you can easily run/backroll to avoid their revenge, or make their meter die down.

Let's NOT cover revenge in 1 v 1. It shouldn't even exist in 1v1. Attacking first is risky enough in this game without some cancer mechanic of "i've blocked you a bunch and didn't risk making a single offensive move to get the upper hand, now I get steroids +50% damage, uninterruptable and hp shield. Because, yeah, I played so well and risked so much, I deserve this.



Now, onto being double/triple/quadruple teamed:
As stated before, revenge mode gives outnumbered players a chance. It's built like this: The more people actively targetting you through Guard-Mode, the more revenge you will gain by defense/injury. It's that simple.
People with revenge gear can get revenge almost IMMEDIATELY when outnumbered.

Yes, and it works perfectly well with ungeared characters.Gives you a chance to fight back. However, when you throw in 108 GS people, balance goes out the door.
Make no mistake, if you get yourselve into a 1v4, in a TEAM GAME MODE, chances are you deserve to die. Period. I'm sick of delusional ego-filled morons thinking they're entitled to win 1v4 with revenge. Revenge can easily win you 1v2. In 1v3 and 1v4 it should BUY YOU TIME so your team mates can get their fingers out of their arses and come help you. If they're dead after breaking (or elimination), well too bad for you. It should NOT be an even fight. Not even close.


if you are outnumbered, i think you should have a HIGHER chance of winning than if you weren't outnumbered.
Hahahahaha. Is this your first multiplayer game? Because that's so stupid I can't even begin to argue.

Yarzahn
04-03-2017, 01:38 PM
Gear as an option in 4v4, and everybody will be happy.

Except Ubisoft, because their whole grinding system would go down the drain. Since no one would ever use gear, except the people wanting to trash others with their GS 108 characters, except they would only find other 108 people.

Gear would be 100% cosmetic.
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying it won't happen. Gear is terribly unbalanced and it's the reason gameplay in 4v4 is now revenge-spam mode.

Gray360UK
04-03-2017, 01:40 PM
Gear as an option in 4v4, and everybody will be happy.

Proper matchmaking would do the same thing.

If you only got put into fights against people with the same gear score, then this would be fixed.

Buyukbaba
04-03-2017, 02:18 PM
Ok,I'm not going off of player quotes here, I am going off the devs.

Revenge is not working as intended. Revenge is having a negative affect on the game.

This isn't some tournament and streamer collective trying to discourage people using something they don't like instead of trying to help fix it, this is according to the people who actually designed it. If you don't want to lose in a 1v4 don't get into a 1v4. Same as any other pvp.

Mate, it is not a matter of losing or winning, it is a matter of absolute losing against crowded rivals in this game. I have given you examples from other pvp's. What i am trying to say here, if the devs are thinking that revenge is broken in this form, then they need to study over headshots, special powers (from your game destiny, hunter's knife dance, or one shot gun, or warlords electric etc, i donot know their names) or overwatch's special abilities of one shot four kills etc. more effectively. All of them are more powerful than revenge. For honor's revenge is piece of cake against those powers. If someone is against revenge in current state, he should also complain all these special abilities as well.

So, nerfing is not always the best solution in games, fun+balance+stability are 3 important metas in games. If you take one out for the other, then remainings may not be satisfactory for some people.

Gray360UK
04-03-2017, 02:49 PM
Mate, it is not a matter of losing or winning, it is a matter of absolute losing against crowded rivals in this game. I have given you examples from other pvp's. What i am trying to say here, if the devs are thinking that revenge is broken in this form, then they need to study over headshots, special powers (from your game destiny, hunter's knife dance, or one shot gun, or warlords electric etc, i donot know their names) or overwatch's special abilities of one shot four kills etc. more effectively. All of them are more powerful than revenge. For honor's revenge is piece of cake against those powers. If someone is against revenge in current state, he should also complain all these special abilities as well.

So, nerfing is not always the best solution in games, fun+balance+stability are 3 important metas in games. If you take one out for the other, then remainings may not be satisfactory for some people.

See this is worrying. You seem to think Revenge is a special attack power.

The things you are comparing it to are special attack powers.

The official in-game tooltip for Revenge states that it gives you a CHANCE to SURVIVE when OUTNUMBERED.

If any evidence was needed that it was too OP, broken, not doing what was intended, then ironically your post is it.

Silvercl0uds
04-03-2017, 03:25 PM
Let me start by saying this, ive mained warlord since i started playing, 108 gear score, it becomes extremely broken when outnumbered, and im all in favor for nerfing revenge to hell.

First of all we should see how the bug fix for the revenge gain from injury works out, but putting that aside a couple of things need to happen with revenge:

1) Revenge attack and defense should be nerfed by a good amount, something like a 40% nerf on those bonuses might be ok, they should feel like options not the mandatory stat to max out on every build.

2) unblockeables like headbutt, shield bash, etc should NOT knock down the enemy while in revenge, seriously this is broken as hell, you can literally keep someone on their back until you kill them.

3) The revive mechanic is a big problem here, we want to give the player who is outnumbered a chance to win but as how revive works at the moment that often becomes imposible, if a player is outnumbered by at least 3 players tath revive each other it becomes impossible, ive been in 4v1 fights where i kill my enemies over and over again, but it doesnt matter since they get up in 2 seconds.

Revive should either take a lot longer, ress the player with only a portion of their health instead of full hp or become slower and slower each time the same player is ressed, or how about something like this:

Player gets ressurected but stands up with only half their hp, exhausted, and can only be revived once per spawn; if he gets killed again the game counts him as executed and cant be revived.

Sorry for the bad english, its not my native language.

Gray360UK
04-03-2017, 03:27 PM
Sorry for the bad english, its not my native language.

Your English is better than most English peoples English, just so you know :)

Buyukbaba
04-03-2017, 03:32 PM
See this is worrying. You seem to think Revenge is a special attack power.

The things you are comparing it to are special attack powers.

The official in-game tooltip for Revenge states that it gives you a CHANCE to SURVIVE when OUTNUMBERED.

If any evidence was needed that it was too OP, broken, not doing what was intended, then ironically your post is it.

You are misjudging this.

1) Revenge is only being activated quickly when more than one person attack you. Directly survivabilty.
2) How do you expect to <survive< when it is 1v4 in the elimination without proper attack power? Of course it is an attack power as well. you donot expect only defense and parrying in that situation, right? Survivability does not mean <only< defense.

I gave proper examples from other games that this revenge is not so OP. Perfectly avoidable, blockable, controllable, forwardable and manipulatable (if this word even exist :)) by 3-4 guys against 1 person. The others in other games are not.

Anyway, at the end of the day it is being nerfed. We will see how it will effect the game together.

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 03:34 PM
Your English is better than most English peoples English, just so you know :)

True story, I had a housemate who had english as a third language, she taught me how to pass my english language semester at university when they were talking about word classes and such.

Buyukbaba
04-03-2017, 03:36 PM
Let me start by saying this, ive mained warlord since i started playing, 108 gear score, it becomes extremely broken when outnumbered, and im all in favor for nerfing revenge to hell.

First of all we should see how the bug fix for the revenge gain from injury works out, but putting that aside a couple of things need to happen with revenge:

1) Revenge attack and defense should be nerfed by a good amount, something like a 40% nerf on those bonuses might be ok, they should feel like options not the mandatory stat to max out on every build.

2) unblockeables like headbutt, shield bash, etc should NOT knock down the enemy while in revenge, seriously this is broken as hell, you can literally keep someone on their back until you kill them.

3) The revive mechanic is a big problem here, we want to give the player who is outnumbered a chance to win but as how revive works at the moment that often becomes imposible, if a player is outnumbered by at least 3 players tath revive each other it becomes impossible, ive been in 4v1 fights where i kill my enemies over and over again, but it doesnt matter since they get up in 2 seconds.

Revive should either take a lot longer, ress the player with only a portion of their health instead of full hp or become slower and slower each time the same player is ressed, or how about something like this:

Player gets ressurected but stands up with only half their hp, exhausted, and can only be revived once per spawn; if he gets killed again the game counts him as executed and cant be revived.

Sorry for the bad english, its not my native language.

There are good ideas in this one. It is about balance, not only revenge nerfing. Balance is what devs should really focus on.

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 03:37 PM
And they get those power moves for killing people, collecting orbs dropped when someone else's special kills people or over time. These powers are meant to be a reward for good play, not backing yourself into a corner and saying to four people come at me bruh. That's whereyour comparison falls down.

Buyukbaba
04-03-2017, 03:39 PM
Then tell me just one other ability from for honor which can help you surviving at that exact moment? Game mechanics does not allaow this. Other games have lots of resources to activate those abilities.

XJadeDragoonX
04-03-2017, 03:41 PM
People don't seem to understand that if you're outnumbered, you shouldn't have a get out of jail free cars. You should die

Gray360UK
04-03-2017, 03:43 PM
I gave proper examples from other games that this revenge is not so OP

No you didn't.

Destiny for example, Golden Gun is pure attack, so is Arc Blade. They are not revenge / survival mechanics at all, and have nothing to do with being under attack or outnumbered. You are describing Revenge as if it is a Rocket Launcher pickup in a shooting game. It is not.

My point still stands, how you see Revenge is all the proof I need that it is very broken, very OP and not working as intended.

Buyukbaba
04-03-2017, 04:17 PM
No you didn't.

Destiny for example, Golden Gun is pure attack, so is Arc Blade. They are not revenge / survival mechanics at all, and have nothing to do with being under attack or outnumbered. You are describing Revenge as if it is a Rocket Launcher pickup in a shooting game. It is not.

My point still stands, how you see Revenge is all the proof I need that it is very broken, very OP and not working as intended.

I donot understand how you are trying to describe revenge word itself. Without attacking mechanics, it is not revenge, it is defense. I am only trying to describe if 1v4 does exist in this game, that guy should also be able to <survive<. In order to survive, that 1 guy should have enough attacking power to kill other 4 guys. And other attacking mechanics in other games are perfect examples from attacking manner in this game. It is called <revenge<.

Then it all comes to a certain point;

While you are playing elimination and you are 1v4, then why revenge is needed? Completely discard it from game. You donot need to survive, because you must die, because you are outnumbered, because your buddies played really bad. Revenge <attack< should not be existed or just enough to survive, but surviving will not be enough to eliminate 4 other guys because your attacks will be limited. So again, why revenge is needed? How should it like to be?

I am only talking about elimination mode. Survivability is not needed in this mode, it is actually a duel but with 4 people. Not like skirmish or dominion. When your teammates die, you should not be destined to die. There should be free jail free card but that card should also not mean total domination against 4 rivals. And in my opinion, this state of revenge is not meaning total domination in the elimination.

On the otherhand, I am with you that 1v2-1v3 and 1v4 revenge gains should be different.This creates balance issue.

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 04:31 PM
The powers in other games are rewards for good gameplay, as in killing other people and specifically in Destiny, other people on your team getting it quicker is a reward for you having still been close enough to your team that you are showing good teamwork. What it is not is oh hell I let four people get their weapons on me, I have a right to survive this.

What you are asking to do is to be rewarded for bad gameplay, either for getting into a situation you are outmatched or because your teammates weren'tgood enough to beat the people they were matched with. If a team is 4v1 because they have killed the other three people on your team, they have every right to an advantage because they have played the game well. And if your teammates are still alive and it is 4v1 in elimination they are not doing their jobs properly and shouldn't be rewarded with their teammate having an I win button either.

Silvercl0uds
04-03-2017, 04:32 PM
im gonna try reprhasing this, revenge is supposed to give the outnumbered player a chance to win, A CHANCE, one should do extremely well to overcome being ganked, not just spam revenge buttom and 2 shot everyone.

thing is, as of now the current revive mechanics make it almost imposible to win a 4v1 fight, you just cant stop the ressurection of your enemies because its too fast and efficient, so wath ends up happening is you kill them over and over again but it doesnt matter bacause they get revived in 2 seconds and you cant stop it while you are getting attacked, cced, guard broken, etc.

IMO revenge should be nerfed a lot, but at the same time the revive mechanic reworked, else you have those matches that end in 4v1 fights that take forever against a forever revenged enemy that kills anyone with 2 hits.

in summary; nerf revenge, make getting ganked very hard to overcome, but at the same time give the outnumbered player a chance to win by nerfing revive, if i manage to kill someone while in revenge make it worth it, as of now it completely useless because they get ressed in under 2 seconds.

Specialkha
04-03-2017, 04:33 PM
I donot understand how you are trying to describe revenge word itself. Without attacking mechanics, it is not revenge, it is defense. I am only trying to describe if 1v4 does exist in this game, that guy should also be able to <survive<. In order to survive, that 1 guy should have enough attacking power to kill other 4 guys. And other attacking mechanics in other games are perfect examples from attacking manner in this game. It is called <revenge<.

Then it all comes to a certain point;

While you are playing elimination and you are 1v4, then why revenge is needed? Completely discard it from game. You donot need to survive, because you must die, because you are outnumbered, because your buddies played really bad. Revenge <attack< should not be existed or just enough to survive, but surviving will not be enough to eliminate 4 other guys because your attacks will be limited. So again, why revenge is needed? How should it like to be?

I am only talking about elimination mode. Survivability is not needed in this mode, it is actually a duel but with 4 people. Not like skirmish or dominion. When your teammates die, you should not be destined to die. There should be free jail free card but that card should also not mean total domination against 4 rivals. And in my opinion, this state of revenge is not meaning total domination in the elimination.

On the otherhand, I am with you that 1v2-1v3 and 1v4 revenge gains should be different.This creates balance issue.

Survive means barely making it through the fight with a good chance of dying.
Revenge, as it is now, means: "Super Sayan mode, one hit kill whole team".

And this is not how it should be.

bananaflow2017
04-03-2017, 04:36 PM
I dont know about your experiences with revenge, but i just played against 4 108 players and after 3 mins i had 3 bots by my side. Anyhow i managed to get both into a sudden death and I had to fight a 1v4. And yes revenge triggered fast, but it didnt help that much. They just needed a bit longer. At least it was impossible to not get controlled like hell by the lawbringer and the 2 conqs. The orochi did the rest.
Most people here discribe revenge like a I win button, but thats probably a thing against lowies without any gear.
Experienced and skilled players will just run or control the ..... out of you.

Dont misunderstand me but this is not only a problem of the revenge itself. It is a matchmaking problem mostly.

Then you can discuss about the gear scaling too but there are too many things to talk about without getting a solution.

Gray360UK
04-03-2017, 04:41 PM
I donot understand how you are trying to describe revenge word itself. Without attacking mechanics, it is not revenge, it is defense.

It is supposed to be a defence mechanic, Revenge Gain by Defence, Revenge Gain by Injury, Revenge gain by being outnumbered and under attack from multiple hostiles in a situation where normally you would die.

A chance to survive.

You like getting stuck on the definition of certain words, but the wrong words. The two most important words are CHANCE and SURVIVE, not REVENGE and ATTACK.

The Ubisoft Tooltip does not say Revenge enables you to go on a killing spree and kill every last mofo in the room, it says it gives you a chance to survive. A chance you do not get in games like Destiny. If 4 enemies shoot you at the same time in Destiny you die. Maybe if you're a Warlock you can self resurrect, but that's about it. Now that ability, if you want to compare games, IS a survival / Revenge style mechanic in another game..So is the ability to auto-eject from your Titan when it is about to explode in Tifanfall 2, or to have Barrier automatically cast on you when you get low on healtn in Dragon Age.

You've got the whole concept wrong because of a few stumbling blocks you've encountered with basic word definitions, a bit like the people who can't get past HONOR in the title of the game. It's no good trying to reason with them either :p

OneTrueAlca
04-03-2017, 04:42 PM
If they nerf revenge without nerfing revive that would be so ******ed on so many levels.

and just killed the 1 vs 4 games.

kweassa1917
04-03-2017, 05:11 PM
If they nerf revenge without nerfing revive that would be so ******ed on so many levels.

and just killed the 1 vs 4 games.

Good riddance then.

1vs4 is supposed to be death, unless you are simply overwhelmingly superior than all the other 4 enemies. If one is already overwhelmingly superior player, then revenge nerf shouldn't even matter. If one is not, and were just relying on gear for back-to-back revenge spamming, then one won't be able to do so.

I don't see any negative outcome at all.

Buyukbaba
04-03-2017, 05:38 PM
im gonna try reprhasing this, revenge is supposed to give the outnumbered player a chance to win, A CHANCE, one should do extremely well to overcome being ganked, not just spam revenge buttom and 2 shot everyone.

thing is, as of now the current revive mechanics make it almost imposible to win a 4v1 fight, you just cant stop the ressurection of your enemies because its too fast and efficient, so wath ends up happening is you kill them over and over again but it doesnt matter bacause they get revived in 2 seconds and you cant stop it while you are getting attacked, cced, guard broken, etc.

IMO revenge should be nerfed a lot, but at the same time the revive mechanic reworked, else you have those matches that end in 4v1 fights that take forever against a forever revenged enemy that kills anyone with 2 hits.

in summary; nerf revenge, make getting ganked very hard to overcome, but at the same time give the outnumbered player a chance to win by nerfing revive, if i manage to kill someone while in revenge make it worth it, as of now it completely useless because they get ressed in under 2 seconds.
This. This also means some of other mechanics are also OP.

Buyukbaba
04-03-2017, 05:56 PM
It is supposed to be a defence mechanic, Revenge Gain by Defence, Revenge Gain by Injury, Revenge gain by being outnumbered and under attack from multiple hostiles in a situation where normally you would die.

A chance to survive.

You like getting stuck on the definition of certain words, but the wrong words. The two most important words are CHANCE and SURVIVE, not REVENGE and ATTACK.

The Ubisoft Tooltip does not say Revenge enables you to go on a killing spree and kill every last mofo in the room, it says it gives you a chance to survive. A chance you do not get in games like Destiny. If 4 enemies shoot you at the same time in Destiny you die. Maybe if you're a Warlock you can self resurrect, but that's about it. Now that ability, if you want to compare games, IS a survival / Revenge style mechanic in another game..So is the ability to auto-eject from your Titan when it is about to explode in Tifanfall 2, or to have Barrier automatically cast on you when you get low on healtn in Dragon Age.

You've got the whole concept wrong because of a few stumbling blocks you've encountered with basic word definitions, a bit like the people who can't get past HONOR in the title of the game. It's no good trying to reason with them either :pGood try but thats not the case, you are twisting the reality here. You are totally clouding revenge mode attack. It is there for a reason. It is also an attack mechanic. So, every other games can have extraordinary attack mechanics but if it is in for honor, than it is OP? Right, i must die when I am trying to survive against 4 people. Trying to survive is enough. And yes, it is ridiculous as it sounds. This is my opinion, no offense.

Let us donot proceed with this meaningless discussion because your survival understanding is totally different than mine since yours have only one window :) As long as you are alive it is ok for you, but being attacked by 4 people does not mean anything to you :) I can imagine how it is satisfactory to spam R2's to one guy from all 4 sides for you and I always really want to be on the attacking gang, believe me.

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 05:57 PM
Um, the devs said it isn't an attack mechanic. They said the way it is being used as one is not what it was designed for. If you can't understand that I really don't see anywhere this conversation can go but in circles.

Gray360UK
04-03-2017, 06:00 PM
Um, the devs said it isn't an attack mechanic. They said the way it is being used as one is not what it was designed for. If you can't understand that I really don't see anywhere this conversation can go but in circles.

Lost cause. He hasn't once even conceeded that Golden Gun in Destiny is the total opposite of Revenge in For Honor, both are attack mechanics in his book. Couldn't be more wrong if you tried, but hey, some people, if they don't know it, you can't tell them ... :rolleyes:

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 06:03 PM
Lost cause. He hasn't once even conceeded that Golden Gun in Destiny is the total opposite of Revenge in For Honor, both are attack mechanics in his book. Couldn't be more wrong if you tried, but hey, some people, if they don't know it, you can't tell them ... :rolleyes:

I was always more a nightstalker, hand cannon to the head with shared damage on the hunter's bow. Managing to get both the better radar and the dodge was neat as well,

Gray360UK
04-03-2017, 06:14 PM
I was always more a nightstalker, hand cannon to the head with shared damage on the hunter's bow. Managing to get both the better radar and the dodge was neat as well,

Arc Blade for me :)

Stopped playing not long after the Nightstalker era, went back briefly but never recaptured my interest. Got a bit burned out with the whole gear / raid grind.

Buyukbaba
04-03-2017, 06:21 PM
Are you both really cannot understand or trying not to understand? Firstly i am really not really interested in what devs said. Revenge is surviving and surviving includes attack. All other games have some kind of opportunity to survive and kill the attackers. For honor does not have this option if revenge erased.

If you manage to survive 4 attackers in destiny, you can kill them somehow afterwards. If you thrown out from titan in titanfall, you can kill the attackers afterwards, if you are alone in the cod, you can hide and kill rivals. Simple as that. If you are just one guy in for honor, you have no other option except revenge. Period.

If you are really cannot understand this reality and only damping this to defense and absolute loss, you really need to try to change your perspective.

Specialkha
04-03-2017, 06:27 PM
Maybe try to not get ganged? Problem solved.

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 06:37 PM
Arc Blade for me :)

Stopped playing not long after the Nightstalker era, went back briefly but never recaptured my interest. Got a bit burned out with the whole gear / raid grind.

Their last expansion cost the same as the one before but it was completable in one sitting, my brother and I did in fact. I did manage to get ace of spades though.

Gray360UK
04-03-2017, 06:38 PM
Are you both really cannot understand or trying not to understand? Firstly i am really not really interested in what devs said. Revenge is surviving and surviving includes attack. All other games have some kind of opportunity to survive and kill the attackers. For honor does not have this option if revenge erased.

If you manage to survive 4 attackers in destiny, you can kill them somehow afterwards. If you thrown out from titan in titanfall, you can kill the attackers afterwards, if you are alone in the cod, you can hide and kill rivals. Simple as that. If you are just one guy in for honor, you have no other option except revenge. Period.

If you are really cannot understand this reality and only damping this to defense and absolute loss, you really need to try to change your perspective.

I thought you weren't discussing it with us anymore? :rolleyes:

Not sure where you got that we want it removed from? This is news to me.

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 06:38 PM
Are you both really cannot understand or trying not to understand? Firstly i am really not really interested in what devs said. Revenge is surviving and surviving includes attack. All other games have some kind of opportunity to survive and kill the attackers. For honor does not have this option if revenge erased.

If you manage to survive 4 attackers in destiny, you can kill them somehow afterwards. If you thrown out from titan in titanfall, you can kill the attackers afterwards, if you are alone in the cod, you can hide and kill rivals. Simple as that. If you are just one guy in for honor, you have no other option except revenge. Period.

If you are really cannot understand this reality and only damping this to defense and absolute loss, you really need to try to change your perspective.

So the opinion of the people who designed the feature over its proper use doesn't matter? Did you really just write that? Because that is just...wow.

MumfordDaHound
04-03-2017, 06:50 PM
Good riddance then.

1vs4 is supposed to be death, unless you are simply overwhelmingly superior than all the other 4 enemies. If one is already overwhelmingly superior player, then revenge nerf shouldn't even matter. If one is not, and were just relying on gear for back-to-back revenge spamming, then one won't be able to do so.

I don't see any negative outcome at all.

Verse a semi competent grp they never lose 4v1... Verse noobs to the game it happens, but thats how they learn, and become a vet... There is no excuse to lose 4v1 even if they buffed revenge. Ive taken out a grp of 4 and lost to 1 person after popping revenge. Honestly depends on on the ppl with the numbers to simple back off for 8-12 secs OR disable the person... Revenge is not a problem, ppl are dumb and spam hungry.

Fuqbois
04-04-2017, 12:38 AM
Its funny how people say "revenge is fine and balanced, the problem is noobs spaming attacks and getting people revenge, i never lose 2v1, 3v1 to people with revenge, bla bla bla", while the noobs spaming part is true, i bet those easily manageble people with revenge are also noobs, the other side of the coin, a good/great player with revenge will create a lot of problem to a team, just by surviving 10-20 seconds in a 1v2, 1v3, 1v4 its enough to gain huge momentum.

As most people said, the devs wanted revenge to help people in outnumbered situations, mostly 1v2s, not 1v3 and specially not 1v4.

"I am really not interested in what devs said", well your interest doesn't matter, this isn't just a balancing issue, its a mechanic that they just don't want in the game like it is. It was never suposed to be like this, stop devending Revenge.

And as most recognize, its about SURVIVAL, not BLOODBATH RAMPAGE.

tbtsrjc
04-04-2017, 03:57 AM
I agree wholeheartedly that Revenge mode/gear should be left alone. There are ways to avoid being smashed to pieces by a warrior in Revenge mode.

1. Keep your distance until it's over.

2. Stun lock him with your teammates with bashes, grabs and other abilities while others cut him down.

Rinse and repeat if necessary.

That's all I got for solutions and they work the majority of the time unless you're outnumbered or unless you're pinned up against a wall.

The unfortunate aspect of gaming is the player base that whines and cries over an ability in order to get it changed, instead of learning how to overcome it; they ruin it for the players that took time to learn the game.

I'm annoyed by this change, because the current P2P system needs to be addressed first and foremost before they start changing how the game works, considering the game is dying. It's unfortunate that the lowest common denominator in gaming can alter our fun and of course there will always be something else those people will cry about, but who knows how long the game will survive.

kweassa1917
04-04-2017, 04:13 AM
Verse a semi competent grp they never lose 4v1... Verse noobs to the game it happens, but thats how they learn, and become a vet... There is no excuse to lose 4v1 even if they buffed revenge. Ive taken out a grp of 4 and lost to 1 person after popping revenge. Honestly depends on on the ppl with the numbers to simple back off for 8-12 secs OR disable the person... Revenge is not a problem, ppl are dumb and spam hungry.

Oh, are we talking "high end" players here?

In a gear-impacted 4v4 Dominion, do you know how much it impacts the game when you have to wait 8~12 extra seconds until the other guy's revenge ends? Besides, its not as if he keels over as soon as it ends. He goes turtling up again on your node, revenge fires up again, and then what, repeat those 8~12 seconds ad infinitum?

The whole concept of domination-type PvP modes is fast turnovers, concept of logistics and clever use of local numbers advantage, Your team tries to take out the other team one by one as quickly and efficiently as possible, and the other team tries the same, so nodes are secured longer to ultimately win the game.

Demanding people wait to land one or two hits, and then back off and wait again until they're "safe" to land one or two hits, and then yadayada etc etc.. that's not a solution, that's a cop-out excuse for a broken mechanic that's coutner intuitive to the game design itself.

Mentioned it a zillion times. Before you question and ridicule "noobs" on spamming attacks to give enemies revenge mode, you should be questioning and ridiculing people who think about wading into outnumbered fights thinking they can still survive it.

Because the last time I checked, a PvP game that offers an easy way for a single person to stand against multiple enemies, usually end up getting abandoned due to reasons of imbalance.

I'm fairly certain nobdoy would be complaining about being defeated by a single person fighting 3 people, if that one guy actually systematically destroyed all three attackers through sheer skill and force of will. Instead, what we have is a bunch of people arguing that pushing a single button for an immune-on-activation AoE auto-knockdown, from which point on you spam a few zone attacks and/or knockdown inducers and 1~2 of your enemies keel over with 2 hits, is somehow supposed to be 'skillful', and people who are appalled by it are 'skill-less'. :rolleyes:



The unfortunate aspect of gaming is the player base that whines and cries over an ability in order to get it changed, instead of learning how to overcome it; they ruin it for the players that took time to learn the game.

Yes, rather unfortunate to see people crying over announced revenge nerfs because they have no idea how to handle a 1v4 situation.


(1) using brains is the easiest and most effective method of handling a 1v4 situation by not falling under such situation in the first place
(2) communciation is the second easiest and effective method -- a good cooperation always helps avoid being outnumbered
(3) the most difficult, yet most rewarding, would be actually becoming a superior player that can survive bad odds through pure skill


...and instead of these perfectly legit methods, all these people do is whine and complain that the devs don't take away their easymode-1 button "get out of jail free" card. They make the mistake of being cornered into a 1v4, and still expect to survive it easily... such galls! :)

darkspawn2101
04-04-2017, 04:20 AM
Revenge needs nerfed as it can make one target practically invincible even in a 1v1.

It needs nerfed, it will be nerfed. Period.

tbtsrjc
04-04-2017, 04:48 AM
Yes, rather unfortunate to see people crying over announced revenge nerfs because they have no idea how to handle a 1v4 situation.


I'm not crying over it, unlike players of your caliber I'll adjust. The only people that are crying are the ones that can't hang when someone pops a Revenge, as if it's truly a "get out of jail free card," as you put it. There are ways of dealing with it and I refuse to allow crying to be an option, although I'm seeing that is how the kiddies are getting what they want, so I guess I'll start crying for dedicated servers which probably still won't happen because Ubisoft doesn't like spending money on their player base that made them rich.

I look forward to seeing what the crybabies will moan about next week. Cry on

CoyoteXStarrk
04-04-2017, 04:52 AM
Revenge gear is OP. Hell gear OVERALL is OP.


The Devs think so.


The majority of the community thinks so.


So its happening. The revenge gain will be nerfed and the gear stats will be adjusted. Just swallow the pill and go quietly into the night.



Start relying on your skill and not your gear. You will be a better player in the long run for it.

tbtsrjc
04-04-2017, 05:06 AM
Revenge gear is OP. Hell gear OVERALL is OP.


The Devs think so.


The majority of the community thinks so.


So its happening. The revenge gain will be nerfed and the gear stats will be adjusted. Just swallow the pill and go quietly into the night.



Start relying on your skill and not your gear. You will be a better player in the long run for it.

Just wanted to point out the same developers thought P2P was a grand idea, and the majority of the community has already left, so good try there. I'll be okay once it's nerfed, although I'm worried about the rest of you that have yet to learn the game.

CoyoteXStarrk
04-04-2017, 05:43 AM
Just wanted to point out the same developers thought P2P was a grand idea, and the majority of the community has already left, so good try there. I'll be okay once it's nerfed, although I'm worried about the rest of you that have yet to learn the game.

Don't include me in that bunch. I don't use revenge gear.


I went for Feat cooldown and stamina stats

Buyukbaba
04-04-2017, 08:59 AM
Oh, are we talking "high end" players here?

In a gear-impacted 4v4 Dominion, do you know how much it impacts the game when you have to wait 8~12 extra seconds until the other guy's revenge ends? Besides, its not as if he keels over as soon as it ends. He goes turtling up again on your node, revenge fires up again, and then what, repeat those 8~12 seconds ad infinitum?

The whole concept of domination-type PvP modes is fast turnovers, concept of logistics and clever use of local numbers advantage, Your team tries to take out the other team one by one as quickly and efficiently as possible, and the other team tries the same, so nodes are secured longer to ultimately win the game.

Demanding people wait to land one or two hits, and then back off and wait again until they're "safe" to land one or two hits, and then yadayada etc etc.. that's not a solution, that's a cop-out excuse for a broken mechanic that's coutner intuitive to the game design itself.

Mentioned it a zillion times. Before you question and ridicule "noobs" on spamming attacks to give enemies revenge mode, you should be questioning and ridiculing people who think about wading into outnumbered fights thinking they can still survive it.

Because the last time I checked, a PvP game that offers an easy way for a single person to stand against multiple enemies, usually end up getting abandoned due to reasons of imbalance.

I'm fairly certain nobdoy would be complaining about being defeated by a single person fighting 3 people, if that one guy actually systematically destroyed all three attackers through sheer skill and force of will. Instead, what we have is a bunch of people arguing that pushing a single button for an immune-on-activation AoE auto-knockdown, from which point on you spam a few zone attacks and/or knockdown inducers and 1~2 of your enemies keel over with 2 hits, is somehow supposed to be 'skillful', and people who are appalled by it are 'skill-less'. :rolleyes:




Yes, rather unfortunate to see people crying over announced revenge nerfs because they have no idea how to handle a 1v4 situation.


(1) using brains is the easiest and most effective method of handling a 1v4 situation by not falling under such situation in the first place
(2) communciation is the second easiest and effective method -- a good cooperation always helps avoid being outnumbered
(3) the most difficult, yet most rewarding, would be actually becoming a superior player that can survive bad odds through pure skill


...and instead of these perfectly legit methods, all these people do is whine and complain that the devs don't take away their easymode-1 button "get out of jail free" card. They make the mistake of being cornered into a 1v4, and still expect to survive it easily... such galls! :)

I really really want to see one single example of a player survived from 1v4 without revenge in elimination? Serious question, there is no sarcasm. I can learn so much things from that competition myself. But of course all of the attackers must have high gear sets.

CandleInTheDark
04-04-2017, 09:16 AM
Again, you are assuming you should be getting into 1v4in the first place. You should not be, that is bad gameplay either on your part or on the part of the rest of your team and you are asking to be rewarded for bad gameplay. The devs did not mean revenge to be used as an offensive tool, and whatever you think, yes what their opinion on that is does matter because they, not you, know the reason they put it there to begin with. If you can't see that basic fact there really is no helping you in this matter.

kweassa1917
04-04-2017, 09:18 AM
I really really want to see one single example of a player survived from 1v4 without revenge in elimination? Serious question, there is no sarcasm. I can learn so much things from that competition myself. But of course all of the attackers must have high gear sets.

The better question would be why on earth anyone thinks one should be able to survive 1v4 in the first place.

You're being 1v4d in elimination? Your team sucked -- the enemy team had either better communication, or better skill all around, or both. Conversely, from the other guys' shoes, your team did great. Either they've eliminated 3 other players first -- which is a good feat deserving of a win -- or the enemy team is so poor in communication that they let one of their team members to be overwhelmed.

So tell me again why your team, which clearly deserves to lose, should be able to just make null and void everything the other team worked hard to achieve and did well?

Is there some sort of fetish that gives you higher testosterone readings when you wade into disadvantaged fights? Do you normally make it a habit of suicide-charging into groups of enemies in other games too?

Specialkha
04-04-2017, 09:18 AM
Just wanted to point out the same developers thought P2P was a grand idea, and the majority of the community has already left, so good try there. I'll be okay once it's nerfed, although I'm worried about the rest of you that have yet to learn the game.

Just to be clear. Every fighting game is p2p because it is the best way to avoir any advantage that a dedicated server would be for some players. In p2p, all players are equal regarding latency.

teksuo1
04-04-2017, 09:26 AM
if i have to regear my 3 108s (might be 4 by then) i'd be quite pissed ; and sad ; and things....

That would be the last slap in the face for me.

Specialkha
04-04-2017, 09:30 AM
if i have to regear my 3 108s (might be 4 by then) i'd be quite pissed ; and sad ; and things....

That would be the last slap in the face for me.

Poor baby,; you never tought revenge build would be nerf? And even if nerf, maybe revenge builkd would still be viable but far less powerful? Currently, you can carry alone a game with revenge.

teksuo1
04-04-2017, 09:40 AM
Poor baby,; you never tought revenge build would be nerf? And even if nerf, maybe revenge builkd would still be viable but far less powerful? Currently, you can carry alone a game with revenge.

i hope it does get nerfed ; not to the point where gear needs to be changed is all.

Call me a baby all you want but i just can't find the strength to care enough anymore if all my efforts till now were in vain. Worked hard through the rough times only to get punished? Don't think so.
It can certainly be tuned/balanced without making the stat absolutely useless.

Just a thought ; no need to throw insults ; it's not like i care (about insults ; i do care about the issue being discussed) :rolleyes:

Specialkha
04-04-2017, 09:43 AM
What should i call you then? Balance happens in video games.

Draghmar
04-04-2017, 09:45 AM
Just to be clear. Every fighting game is p2p because it is the best way to avoir any advantage that a dedicated server would be for some players. In p2p, all players are equal regarding latency.
There's no difference with dedicated servers in terms of latency because in both situations game has to compensate for bad latency for some people. Especially when one of the players is host and has almost zero latency. Theoretically P2P should have a lower latency because of a direct communication but that's not true when we talk about game where one of the players is used as a "dedicated" server for others.

And back on topic: Revenge is a good mechanic to give chance in situations 1vX where X is more then 1. But only if there's a reason for that: there are teammates still alive and you need to survive or to punish team that don't think when attacking.

guffffff
04-04-2017, 09:46 AM
It feels like every fight now is about revenge mode and its a bit boring tbh as to deal with revenge you either run off or hack away like a madman with teammates screaming "die you bastard!!". Would be cool to play Dominion without revenge just to see what its like

Specialkha
04-04-2017, 09:54 AM
There's no difference with dedicated servers in terms of latency because in both situations game has to compensate for bad latency for some people. Especially when one of the players is host and has almost zero latency. Theoretically P2P should have a lower latency because of a direct communication but that's not true when we talk about game where one of the players is used as a "dedicated" server for others.

And back on topic: Revenge is a good mechanic to give chance in situations 1vX where X is more then 1. But only if there's a reason for that: there are teammates still alive and you need to survive or to punish team that don't think when attacking.

WIth dedicated server some ppl would have better latency than others. With p2p, everyone has the same latency than the players with the worst one. Every fighting game uses p2p, enve SF5.

And on topic, let's see the nerf in action, and they will buff it if needed. No need to cry before getting hurt.

Draghmar
04-04-2017, 09:59 AM
WIth dedicated server some ppl would have better latency than others. With p2p, everyone has the same latency than the players with the worst one. Every fighting game uses p2p, enve SF5.
That's because net code compensate and brings everyone to the same latency. Dedicated servers do the same thing. The only difference is theoretical lower overall latency from P2P because of one less machine (server).

Specialkha
04-04-2017, 10:10 AM
yep, so it should work. Ubisoft just need to get their **** together and work their netcode.

Buyukbaba
04-04-2017, 10:13 AM
The better question would be why on earth anyone thinks one should be able to survive 1v4 in the first place.

You're being 1v4d in elimination? Your team sucked -- the enemy team had either better communication, or better skill all around, or both. Conversely, from the other guys' shoes, your team did great. Either they've eliminated 3 other players first -- which is a good feat deserving of a win -- or the enemy team is so poor in communication that they let one of their team members to be overwhelmed.

So tell me again why your team, which clearly deserves to lose, should be able to just make null and void everything the other team worked hard to achieve and did well?

Is there some sort of fetish that gives you higher testosterone readings when you wade into disadvantaged fights? Do you normally make it a habit of suicide-charging into groups of enemies in other games too?

I asked you a serious question and this is your answer? Be a gentleman in the first place.No need to argue with you more.

@candleinthedark Why you are obsessed with "the devs"? If everything they have done be good until now, you would not be arguing about revenge right here right now. They may have built this game but we are playing it and we paid for it. You are loking it from the wrong side. Your demands should be satisfied, not the devs. Quit pretending like the devs. You may not accept my arguments, i respect that, but donot come here with devs arguments, because everything can be changed in games. I am not satisfied with one thing and expressing it here, may be they can make it more balanced. May be they can find better tools for balancing except only nerfing revenge. I believe nerfing only revenge will ruin elimination. This is my idea. We will see it together. And if that happens, we will be discussing other problems here.

Yokonato
04-04-2017, 10:16 AM
I like how so many people say revenge should be nerfed because if players gang up on you they shouldnt be punished for it and you shouldn't get a easy button,pretty much all characters have a disabler ability, if i see someone about to pop revenge to stop a execution when on my lawbringer I use long arm vulnerable in the air and doesn't knock me or my teammates over, because I know for a fact most of the 4v4 game modes people move in packs so you can be having a remotely fair duel til a shugoki blindsides you with demons embrace or a peacekeeper doesn't show up on your minimap and jabs a dagger in your kidneys so much for situational awareness, can revenge be nerfed for 1 v 1 or even brawl ? sure i see 0 issues, but you cant say people shouldn't be punished for someone else activating revenge when they 80 percent of time just ganged up on someone to cause revenge to build and when its 1 on 1 you can easily avoid the person til it runs out unless you were to aggressive and hit and were knocked over

Also to people who say revenge can have someone solo a whole team , no maybe you are just bad at not slamming left click or your triggers revenge doesn't make someone invincible they still die to spikes,fire or ledge tosses , they can still be parried and blocked,so if you were supposedly beating them so simply before you should be able to smack them down still, most people who only use revenge are not great skill wise

Better concerns should be locking the spawn zone see alot of people in dominion going inside of the spawn yes there is a slight spawn protection but shortly before you have full control of character you are vunerable seeing everything from warlord running you to a edge, to pk getting massive bleed on you before you can react

tbtsrjc
04-04-2017, 10:20 AM
Just to be clear. Every fighting game is p2p because it is the best way to avoir any advantage that a dedicated server would be for some players. In p2p, all players are equal regarding latency.

P2P is inferior to dedicated servers, always has been and always will be, especially in terms of stability. If all players were created equal then funky exchanges in this game would not happen.

Specialkha
04-04-2017, 10:23 AM
P2P is inferior to dedicated servers, always has been and always will be, especially in terms of stability. If all players were created equal then funky exchanges in this game would not happen.

Nah it is not. P2p has its uses, and can be stable. Look at Elite dangerous, SF5, and some more. It is just here, the netcode is garbage. Once they fix that, it will be fine. Do not talk if you do not know what you are talking about

CandleInTheDark
04-04-2017, 10:27 AM
I asked you a serious question and this is your answer? Be a gentleman in the first place.No need to argue with you more.

@candleinthedark Why you are obsessed with "the devs"? If everything they have done be good until now, you would not be arguing about revenge right here right now. They may have built this game but we are playing it and we paid for it. You are loking it from the wrong side. Your demands should be satisfied, not the devs. Quit pretending like the devs. You may not accept my arguments, i respect that, but donot come here with devs arguments, because everything can be changed in games. I am not satisfied with one thing and expressing it here, may be they can make it more balanced. May be they can find better tools for balancing except only nerfing revenge. I believe nerfing only revenge will ruin elimination. This is my idea. We will see it together. And if that happens, we will be discussing other problems here.

The devs isn't the answer to everything but in this case it is. They intended revenge to be an equaliser,not to be able to carry a round by yourself which is where it is at currently where people can be in almost a never ending state of revenge. When something that was meant to be a defensive option to give you a chanceat holding your own becomes an offensive weapon where someone can get into a bad situation through bad gameplay and not be punished for it then it is not serving the purpose it was put there for.

I do think the devs get it wrong sometimes, there are balance issues with my main that are not being dealt with and I and a few others have made a lot of noise over that in trying to get something that turns a lot of the community toxic towards us dealt with, but when it comes to something as fundamental as revenge, they know why it is there and they know that it is not doing what they intended it to do.

tbtsrjc
04-04-2017, 10:37 AM
Nah it is not. P2p has its uses, and can be stable. Look at Elite dangerous, SF5, and some more. It is just here, the netcode is garbage. Once they fix that, it will be fine. Do not talk if you do not know what you are talking about
If you say so, I long for the day when my games no longer pause and crash when someone rage quits or gets dropped from the crappy network.

Buyukbaba
04-04-2017, 10:43 AM
The devs isn't the answer to everything but in this case it is. They intended revenge to be an equaliser,not to be able to carry a round by yourself which is where it is at currently where people can be in almost a never ending state of revenge. When something that was meant to be a defensive option to give you a chanceat holding your own becomes an offensive weapon where someone can get into a bad situation through bad gameplay and not be punished for it then it is not serving the purpose it was put there for.

I do think the devs get it wrong sometimes, there are balance issues with my main that are not being dealt with and I and a few others have made a lot of noise over that in trying to get something that turns a lot of the community toxic towards us dealt with, but when it comes to something as fundamental as revenge, they know why it is there and they know that it is not doing what they intended it to do.

Perfect answer, thanks. But from my point of view, i donot accept absolute loss when i am out numbered. Just keep it elimination limited. I am not talking about dominion or skirmish which you are able to respawn in 15 secs. This game's mechanics do not allow you to win over 4 people neither with only survival abilities nor with perfect skill. Think oıver any other game and imagine, do you see any other game which proves your absolute loss when you are outnumbered. If absolute domination of revenge is not just, absolute loss with being outnumbered is also not just in my book. This is game. We will lose or win, ok, but absolute loss, i donot accept this.

Every other aspect of this argument is another thing. Why am i outnumbered, why my friends died, why i am in a position of 1v4. I am only asking for a chance to be able to fight with honor against 4 people when I am alone. Without revenge, this is not possible in this game. I guess we agree upon this, absolute no chance. Pure skill will not be enough, never. Again, I am not demanding reveneg domination against 4 people, i am demanding enough force to be at the same level against 4 people, may be a little less which requires my skill as well.

BigFatLion
04-04-2017, 10:58 AM
Just to go back to the original post, and add my thoughts to the matter.

First, a couple of things out of the way, as others pointed out in previous comments:
- while it would be nice for the game to encourage players to act 'honorably', I don't think we want the situation where the game 'forces' it: some players want to play differently and we should welcome them. The greater the player base, the better the game for everyone. Personally, I like being 'honorable' and can get annoyed when ganked or when people run straight for buffs, etc, but it is all part of the fun
- it is clear that the Revenge mechanic is the counter-play to being outnumbered, it *is not* designed to encourage players to be 'honorable'.

As it is, I think it is clear that the Revenge build we see so often in the game is too powerful: in 4v4 modes, a Rev-build player gets Revenge quickly in a 1v1 and can kill with 2 if even just one hit (depending on the match up). While, yes, when outnumbered the current Revenge mechanics and stats can give the outnumbered player a chance to win; sometimes even an advantage over all players depending on build and on jointly using the right feats. Example: a revenge-build Beserker using the debuff, poison blades and fury feats together with active revenge.

So the real question is: how could we deal with ganking, while not making Revenge overly powerful?

Well, why do need revenge now? Because it is too easy to gank: friendly damage is so low people can just gank without a thought and spam their attacks. The worst thing friendly hits do is to unbalance players and make them lose a guard break. It is simply no-risk/all-reward for the attackers in greater number, when it comes to ganking. So what is the current answer to this: Revenge.

My point here is: Revenge is the balancing mechanic the devs went for because they decided that friendly damage should basically not do much.

So my preferred solution would be: apply friendly damage with no damage reduction, minus lock-on (i.e., no one can lock on friendlies). The positive results (in terms of dealing with the ganking problem) of this would be:
- players would no longer be able to gank without carefully considering their positioning and which attacks to use in order to avoid hitting friendlies and getting hit themselves
- the outnumbered player would then truly be able to use their movement/position, along with the environment, to make gankers punish themselves, and more importantly turn outnumbered fights into a series of 1v1s
This would in fact bring a fair chance to anyone being ganked, while encouraging and rewarding tactics and skill: very much unlike Revenge.

So why haven't the devs thought about this? I'm sure they have. I would wager they chose not to do this because of the drawbacks of friendly damage:
- with friendly damage comes team killing: that dreaded issue of Rainbow Six Siege. Even without the lock-on for friendlies, a team of 3 players on mics could still wipe out the fourth player because 'they're ****' or 'LOL'.... it's a thing many players just do.
- less skilled players, or players who care less about winning/losing, will be prone to mindless ganking anyway, thus injuring/killing their team mates... who would then seek revenge next round, an on it goes.
- overall, friendly fire has the potential of inducing toxic behaviour.
So, then, what's the answer here? Well: implement sactions for team killing: e.g., points get taken off for damaging team mates, you get kicked off the match for the second team mate you kill in a match. Ubi has done this for Rainbow Six, and it works.

The issue is that now they are far along, committed to the Revenge mechanic, based on their design choices. Changing it to a friendly damage model would take a lot more work and testing.

CandleInTheDark
04-04-2017, 11:21 AM
Perfect answer, thanks. But from my point of view, i donot accept absolute loss when i am out numbered. Just keep it elimination limited. I am not talking about dominion or skirmish which you are able to respawn in 15 secs. This game's mechanics do not allow you to win over 4 people neither with only survival abilities nor with perfect skill. Think oıver any other game and imagine, do you see any other game which proves your absolute loss when you are outnumbered. If absolute domination of revenge is not just, absolute loss with being outnumbered is also not just in my book. This is game. We will lose or win, ok, but absolute loss, i donot accept this.

Every other aspect of this argument is another thing. Why am i outnumbered, why my friends died, why i am in a position of 1v4. I am only asking for a chance to be able to fight with honor against 4 people when I am alone. Without revenge, this is not possible in this game. I guess we agree upon this, absolute no chance. Pure skill will not be enough, never. Again, I am not demanding reveneg domination against 4 people, i am demanding enough force to be at the same level against 4 people, may be a little less which requires my skill as well.

The thing is that both teams had the same opportunity from the beginning, if you are 4v1, you shouldn't get an easy mode that wipes out all the work they have done to that point. One person is not equal to four and in any shooter pvp it is very much the same, if you are shooting against four people, you're pretty much dead, I don't get why you expect it to be different here.

Draghmar
04-04-2017, 11:36 AM
So my preferred solution would be: apply friendly damage with no damage reduction, minus lock-on (i.e., no one can lock on friendlies). The positive results (in terms of dealing with the ganking problem) of this would be:
- players would no longer be able to gank without carefully considering their positioning and which attacks to use in order to avoid hitting friendlies and getting hit themselves
- the outnumbered player would then truly be able to use their movement/position, along with the environment, to make gankers punish themselves, and more importantly turn outnumbered fights into a series of 1v1s
This would in fact bring a fair chance to anyone being ganked, while encouraging and rewarding tactics and skill: very much unlike Revenge.

So why haven't the devs thought about this? I'm sure they have. I would wager they chose not to do this because of the drawbacks of friendly damage:
- with friendly damage comes team killing: that dreaded issue of Rainbow Six Siege. Even without the lock-on for friendlies, a team of 3 players on mics could still wipe out the fourth player because 'they're ****' or 'LOL'.... it's a thing many players just do.
- less skilled players, or players who care less about winning/losing, will be prone to mindless ganking anyway, thus injuring/killing their team mates... who would then seek revenge next round, an on it goes.
- overall, friendly fire has the potential of inducing toxic behaviour.
So, then, what's the answer here? Well: implement sactions for team killing: e.g., points get taken off for damaging team mates, you get kicked off the match for the second team mate you kill in a match. Ubi has done this for Rainbow Six, and it works.

The issue is that now they are far along, committed to the Revenge mechanic, based on their design choices. Changing it to a friendly damage model would take a lot more work and testing.
At first I thought that would be bad idea but after reading whole post I think it may actually work. Combination of 80-100% friendly fire with negative impact for someone who abuse attacking his teammates. But I would still like to test this somehow to see how it would play...Test servers?

Buyukbaba
04-04-2017, 11:51 AM
The thing is that both teams had the same opportunity from the beginning, if you are 4v1, you shouldn't get an easy mode that wipes out all the work they have done to that point. One person is not equal to four and in any shooter pvp it is very much the same, if you are shooting against four people, you're pretty much dead, I don't get why you expect it to be different here.
Not really. Let me give you example. I am not an all around perfect cod player but I am a skilled one with around 5.0 W/L ratio. I generally play S&D, which has similarities to elimination here. I can easily manage 1vx situations in that game with my proper skill. 1v6 is very difficult but managable.
So, why should one guy always lose, this is the point I really donot understand? Is there some ethics about that? No problem, scoreboard can write a win to the 4 people living team but why am i destined to die without fighting? This game has no other mechanics than revenge unlike other games.

Skill is not important when you are outnumbered. Whether you are the #1 player in the world list, top tier, you are not allowed to win 1v4 situation without revenge in this game and you are still defending this mechanic. This mechanic is wrong, devs made it this way, it is completely wrong. A game must never present absolute loss when outnumbered. This is game, not a simulation. When we take revenge out, there should be another way to win 1vx situations, but there is not. I donot know what can be done for that balance but that balance should exist in this game. If there was another way, I would say nothing against revenge nerfing in elimination mode.

Specialkha
04-04-2017, 12:02 PM
And revenge is no skill as it stands now. You just need to be outnumlered on purpose, pop revenge and wreck the enemy team. So much skill. Let's see how it goes when it will be nerfed.

Gray360UK
04-04-2017, 12:06 PM
The thing is that both teams had the same opportunity from the beginning, if you are 4v1, you shouldn't get an easy mode that wipes out all the work they have done to that point. One person is not equal to four and in any shooter pvp it is very much the same, if you are shooting against four people, you're pretty much dead, I don't get why you expect it to be different here.

You know he's just wording the same thing slightly different every time. I admire your patience but if you get anywhere I'll eat my Peacekeepers hat. No wait ... that face ... better leave the hat alone ;)

CandleInTheDark
04-04-2017, 12:14 PM
You know he's just wording the same thing slightly different every time. I admire your patience but if you get anywhere I'll eat my Peacekeepers hat. No wait ... that face ... better leave the hat alone ;)

Yes leave the hat on :p

And yes it does seem to be getting very circular but it is stopping me finding out if I can get dark souls, make a peacekeepery build and go trolling.

Buyukbaba
04-04-2017, 12:45 PM
And I am here to discuss with a guy who does not know the difference between hood and hat and presume his face under his hat. my bad. <revenge is op. hoorah.< Now you like me, right :) Perfect. By the way, masks can be rough to digest, melting suggested, just saying.

kweassa1917
04-04-2017, 01:08 PM
Not really. Let me give you example. I am not an all around perfect cod player but I am a skilled one with around 5.0 W/L ratio. I generally play S&D, which has similarities to elimination here. I can easily manage 1vx situations in that game with my proper skill. 1v6 is very difficult but managable.
So, why should one guy always lose, this is the point I really donot understand? Is there some ethics about that? No problem, scoreboard can write a win to the 4 people living team but why am i destined to die without fighting? This game has no other mechanics than revenge unlike other games.

According to your line of logic, the difference of power between one individual versus FOUR TIMES THE NUMBERS ADVANTAGE obviously don't mean shi*, so it doesn't matter how many players you fight. Your odds of survival and winning should be the same as the side that's got FOUR times more people. Congratulations, you just discarded the concept of tactics and strategical thinking in the trash bin. So you don't need tactics. You don't need fast interceptions, smart logistics, anticipation of enemy move, maximizing and concentrating your side's power to a goal. None of that matters since no matter how much you concentrate your firepower, the single enemy don't give a f*** and can simply match all of that with a one-button super mode.

So, then, why stop at there?

Like, if you and I duel and you're a superior player, WHO SAYS I HAVE TO ALWAYS LOSE?

Who cares whether you have more experience, have smarter moves, better control, and better awareness? None of that should mean I have to lose. Why should I die when you strike my HP down to 0? Why does my HP always need to be the same as yours? They really should add in mechanic that brings me back to life and at full HP the moment of my death, so I can never really lose to you, BECAUSE ME, WHILE BEING AN INFINITELY INFERIOR PLAYER TO YOU, STILL DOESN'T MEAN THAT I HAVE TO LOSE. None of your smarter moves should matter. None of your superior class control should matter. The game needs a way to guarantee that I survive a situation where I meet a superior player.

I mean, you're demanding people need to survive 1v4 without having to use brains to avoid that situation in the first place, so I don't think its unreasonable to demand that I should not lose to a superior player just because I suck. I demand a one-button instant equalizer that gives me a chance to survive and actually win.

And don't you dare talk about 'more practice' or 'play smarter' or etc etc.. The guy who wades into 1v4 scenarios don't care about it, so why should it be only me that has to actually learn the game and become better to be able to survive against superior players? Me, I demand a button to instantly gratify my needs, so I don't have to practice, I don't have to become more experienced, and I don't have to give a f*** whether the other guy's superior or has better gear.

This, is your basic line of reasoning. It's BONKERS.

Gray360UK
04-04-2017, 02:00 PM
This, is your basic line of reasoning. It's BONKERS.

Bingo!

It's basically 'I don't want to lose, so why should I lose, even if I'm losing' dressed up as something more reasonable :rolleyes:

CandleInTheDark
04-04-2017, 02:05 PM
Basically the rant I was trying not to go into but well said >.>

MumfordDaHound
04-04-2017, 03:14 PM
The thing is that both teams had the same opportunity from the beginning, if you are 4v1, you shouldn't get an easy mode that wipes out all the work they have done to that point. One person is not equal to four and in any shooter pvp it is very much the same, if you are shooting against four people, you're pretty much dead, I don't get why you expect it to be different here.

If the grp that has 4 is so much better they would have zero issues killing one person.. I honestly can't see how they lose if they are a good group. A good group eorks together by disabling and attacking/backing off at the right times. I play LB and spaming AoE attack will not win you 1v4...

Buyukbaba
04-04-2017, 03:58 PM
According to your line of logic, the difference of power between one individual versus FOUR TIMES THE NUMBERS ADVANTAGE obviously don't mean shi*, so it doesn't matter how many players you fight. Your odds of survival and winning should be the same as the side that's got FOUR times more people. Congratulations, you just discarded the concept of tactics and strategical thinking in the trash bin. So you don't need tactics. You don't need fast interceptions, smart logistics, anticipation of enemy move, maximizing and concentrating your side's power to a goal. None of that matters since no matter how much you concentrate your firepower, the single enemy don't give a f*** and can simply match all of that with a one-button super mode.

So, then, why stop at there?

Like, if you and I duel and you're a superior player, WHO SAYS I HAVE TO ALWAYS LOSE?

Who cares whether you have more experience, have smarter moves, better control, and better awareness? None of that should mean I have to lose. Why should I die when you strike my HP down to 0? Why does my HP always need to be the same as yours? They really should add in mechanic that brings me back to life and at full HP the moment of my death, so I can never really lose to you, BECAUSE ME, WHILE BEING AN INFINITELY INFERIOR PLAYER TO YOU, STILL DOESN'T MEAN THAT I HAVE TO LOSE. None of your smarter moves should matter. None of your superior class control should matter. The game needs a way to guarantee that I survive a situation where I meet a superior player.

I mean, you're demanding people need to survive 1v4 without having to use brains to avoid that situation in the first place, so I don't think its unreasonable to demand that I should not lose to a superior player just because I suck. I demand a one-button instant equalizer that gives me a chance to survive and actually win.

And don't you dare talk about 'more practice' or 'play smarter' or etc etc.. The guy who wades into 1v4 scenarios don't care about it, so why should it be only me that has to actually learn the game and become better to be able to survive against superior players? Me, I demand a button to instantly gratify my needs, so I don't have to practice, I don't have to become more experienced, and I don't have to give a f*** whether the other guy's superior or has better gear.

This, is your basic line of reasoning. It's BONKERS.

Very nice, these are all I wanted to say.

Give me the concept of tactics and strategical thinking in the trash bin. So you don't need tactics. You don't need fast interceptions, smart logistics, anticipation of enemy move, maximizing and concentrating your side's power to a goal. None of that matters since no matter how much you concentrate your firepower possibility during 1v4 fights, I donot need revenge. I am just saying this. This game has nothing like this mechanic.

if you and I duel and you're a superior player, you will win or I will win with a conceptional gb and throwing you off the ledge. There should not be revenge. Thats all i am saying.

If I am superior and have more experience, have smarter moves, better control, and better awareness, i need to be in a position to using it during 1v4 match ups. Give me that opportunity by balancing and let me show you my ability to survive without revenge. You are right, I did not say anything other than this.

Limited with elimination, using your brain does not always meaning you are able to avoid 1v4 situations. This is all i am saying, your are right. If I am superior against my rival during elimination duel but my team mates lost their duels, i only want a chance to survive from 1v4 situation. Not with revenge but with basic game mechanics + my experince and skill.

I am also saying if you are top tier but in a 1v4 situation, you have absolutely 0 chance to survive. More practice, playing smarter should mean something in that regard against 4 players. I am saying the same thing with you.

Look mate, I am against nerfing revenge only <in this actual situation<of this game. If mechanics can be changed and give that 1 guy the opportunity of using his skill, abilities and hard worked experience, then revenge is nothing and not needed. I could not explain this to any of you until now. You are obsessed with <revenge is op< and <1v4 should always lose<. I am aware that revenge is OP. But it is the only solution right now to survive. Donot try to use this <survive< against me again.

CandleInTheDark
04-04-2017, 04:16 PM
Very nice, these are all I wanted to say.

Give me the concept of tactics and strategical thinking in the trash bin. So you don't need tactics. You don't need fast interceptions, smart logistics, anticipation of enemy move, maximizing and concentrating your side's power to a goal. None of that matters since no matter how much you concentrate your firepower possibility during 1v4 fights, I donot need revenge. I am just saying this. This game has nothing like this mechanic.

if you and I duel and you're a superior player, you will win or I will win with a conceptional gb and throwing you off the ledge. There should not be revenge. Thats all i am saying.

If I am superior and have more experience, have smarter moves, better control, and better awareness, i need to be in a position to using it during 1v4 match ups. Give me that opportunity by balancing and let me show you my ability to survive without revenge. You are right, I did not say anything other than this.

Limited with elimination, using your brain does not always meaning you are able to avoid 1v4 situations. This is all i am saying, your are right. If I am superior against my rival during elimination duel but my team mates lost their duels, i only want a chance to survive from 1v4 situation. Not with revenge but with basic game mechanics + my experince and skill.

I am also saying if you are top tier but in a 1v4 situation, you have absolutely 0 chance to survive. More practice, playing smarter should mean something in that regard against 4 players. I am saying the same thing with you.

Look mate, I am against nerfing revenge only <in this actual situation<of this game. If mechanics can be changed and give that 1 guy the opportunity of using his skill, abilities and hard worked experience, then revenge is nothing and not needed. I could not explain this to any of you until now. You are obsessed with <revenge is op< and <1v4 should always lose<. I am aware that revenge is OP. But it is the only solution right now to survive. Donot try to use this <survive< against me again.

No, just no. You want the ability to beat four people at once because the rest of your team all died. It isn't the best individual player that wins, it is the best TEAM, period and they don't deserve to lose because the rest of your team sucked, if you are that good you don't need an overpowered prop to do it.

Buyukbaba
04-04-2017, 04:24 PM
No, just no. You want the ability to beat four people at once because the rest of your team all died. It isn't the best individual player that wins, it is the best TEAM, period and they don't deserve to lose because the rest of your team sucked, if you are that good you don't need an overpowered prop to do it.

If you say so. This is your idea. I respect that.

Aarpian
04-04-2017, 04:34 PM
Read what i said, which is so true it hurts. And a perfectly valid reason why revenge should stay the way it is:
"If they gain revenge: Exit guard mode and run, their revenge meter will gradually go down the longer you aren't targetting them. If they already used revenge, immediately backroll and keep backstepping until it wears off. Go full defense mode. This is very simple to do and eliminates the danger of revenge in a 1 v 1."

Great advice, I'm sure you do very well in dominion, constantly leaving the opponent to regenerate his health and gain more points while standing in his zone or murdering minions.

Yarzahn
04-04-2017, 04:35 PM
Bingo!

It's basically 'I don't want to lose, so why should I lose, even if I'm losing' dressed up as something more reasonable :rolleyes:

So true.


Firstly i am really not really interested in what devs said
Well, in my opinion that's pretty stupid on your part.

Empty_Wanderer
04-04-2017, 04:54 PM
Ok,I'm not going off of player quotes here, I am going off the devs.

Revenge is not working as intended. Revenge is having a negative affect on the game.

This isn't some tournament and streamer collective trying to discourage people using something they don't like instead of trying to help fix it, this is according to the people who actually designed it. If you don't want to lose in a 1v4 don't get into a 1v4. Same as any other pvp.
As someone mentioned before, you're absolutely right: Revenge is not working as intended, it's meant to have a chance, not a "super saiyan i-win mode". So that's a valid point.

Empty_Wanderer
04-04-2017, 04:58 PM
Yes, it is. It's not made to turn you into a steroid monster killer.


Let's NOT cover revenge in 1 v 1. It shouldn't even exist in 1v1. Attacking first is risky enough in this game without some cancer mechanic of "i've blocked you a bunch and didn't risk making a single offensive move to get the upper hand, now I get steroids +50% damage, uninterruptable and hp shield. Because, yeah, I played so well and risked so much, I deserve this.


Yes, and it works perfectly well with ungeared characters.Gives you a chance to fight back. However, when you throw in 108 GS people, balance goes out the door.
Make no mistake, if you get yourselve into a 1v4, in a TEAM GAME MODE, chances are you deserve to die. Period. I'm sick of delusional ego-filled morons thinking they're entitled to win 1v4 with revenge. Revenge can easily win you 1v2. In 1v3 and 1v4 it should BUY YOU TIME so your team mates can get their fingers out of their arses and come help you. If they're dead after breaking (or elimination), well too bad for you. It should NOT be an even fight. Not even close.


Hahahahaha. Is this your first multiplayer game? Because that's so stupid I can't even begin to argue.
I said "if you are outnumbered you should have a higher chance of winning", as a means of punishing players for being dishonorable and 2-4 v 1ing. But this is my opinion.

Yarzahn
04-04-2017, 05:12 PM
Let me start by saying this, ive mained warlord since i started playing, 108 gear score, it becomes extremely broken when outnumbered, and im all in favor for nerfing revenge to hell.

First of all we should see how the bug fix for the revenge gain from injury works out, but putting that aside a couple of things need to happen with revenge:

1) Revenge attack and defense should be nerfed by a good amount, something like a 40% nerf on those bonuses might be ok, they should feel like options not the mandatory stat to max out on every build.

2) unblockeables like headbutt, shield bash, etc should NOT knock down the enemy while in revenge, seriously this is broken as hell, you can literally keep someone on their back until you kill them.

3) The revive mechanic is a big problem here, we want to give the player who is outnumbered a chance to win but as how revive works at the moment that often becomes imposible, if a player is outnumbered by at least 3 players tath revive each other it becomes impossible, ive been in 4v1 fights where i kill my enemies over and over again, but it doesnt matter since they get up in 2 seconds.

Revive should either take a lot longer, ress the player with only a portion of their health instead of full hp or become slower and slower each time the same player is ressed, or how about something like this:

Player gets ressurected but stands up with only half their hp, exhausted, and can only be revived once per spawn; if he gets killed again the game counts him as executed and cant be revived.

Sorry for the bad english, its not my native language.


Common sense!!!!
Go away!

Love your revive suggestions.

Buyukbaba
04-04-2017, 05:22 PM
Well, in my opinion that's pretty stupid on your part.

Real stupidity lies beneath being sheeps against devs wrong choices. If something wrong or not working correctly, revenge is also included in that, I am already accepting it to a certain degree, I donot want to be a sheep, sorry.

Yokonato
04-04-2017, 07:47 PM
Great advice, I'm sure you do very well in dominion, constantly leaving the opponent to regenerate his health and gain more points while standing in his zone or murdering minions.

There are like 0 zones in all of the maps that prevent you the ability to out manuver a opponent til revenge has run out, and most of them also have pillars or objects to put between you and him to prevent a impale ability or have space to keep distance from allowing them to bomb you as long as you pay attention

DracoAssassinX
04-04-2017, 08:50 PM
Honestly I don't think revenge mode should of been the answer to mindless ganks. They could of just made it like the old games where you do the same amount of damage to enemy players to your team.

Auztinito
04-04-2017, 08:58 PM
I do hate how revenge how easily gained it is.I am for it being timed down a bit.I'm also in favor of revive speed being timed down or revive being restricted after being revived once.

Billocles
04-04-2017, 09:15 PM
Revenge is out of control and dominating the game. I can't believe there are people defending it at this point. Thank God the devs see this and are fixing it. A "chance" does not equal 1-2shotting people with uninterrupted attacks, in all scenarios, not just 1v4s.

The devs are actually doing a good job on this and let's see how they fix the MM system.

Revenge NEEDS to be fixed and will be. It is blatantly out of control and is being abused

Manlorey
04-05-2017, 09:44 PM
Revenge is out of control and dominating the game. I can't believe there are people defending it at this point. Thank God the devs see this and are fixing it. A "chance" does not equal 1-2shotting people with uninterrupted attacks, in all scenarios, not just 1v4s.

The devs are actually doing a good job on this and let's see how they fix the MM system.

Revenge NEEDS to be fixed and will be. It is blatantly out of control and is being abused

If you fail at countering revenge, sorry, but that is a problem with your skill, and not the revenge system. I bet all of the people who cry on the forum about revenge will get really surprised how fun the game will be, when you are constantly ganked by 3-4 people, which also happens on regular basis in all team based game modes. Why do I say that? Because you can easily avoid being hit by revenge and just leave the fight, even better you can stay and GB/block/parry your enemy or, if you got stamina, dodge his attack (frankly, if you are out of stamina vs a guy with revenge, you did something wrong during the fight, would you not say?).

Speaking out of experience, if the team of gankers is intelligent enough to stay close and spam one-directional heavies/lights non-stop, they deserve to fall when a guy counters them by his ZA. They could have easily wait him out, outplay him by patience, gb him or attack him only during his attacks to bring him down very fast. This is actually one really easy task, you just need to use your brain a little. As for me, I died countless times while on revenge and a team of clever players just put me down by playing smart. It would be really sad if the devs decide to overnerf revenge, giving in to all the hating coming from inexpirienced players. Revenge is a much needed necessity against brainless gank in this game (just my opinion).

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
04-05-2017, 09:55 PM
So getting 4 v 1'd means you automatically lose to dishonor? It shouldn't give you a chance to "fight back" it should give you a high chance of winning due to the fact that they were dishonorable. If they nerf revenge because of this then the devs dont care about what the games title says/means.

Where are you getting the idea that this game was supposed to be honorable? In a larger than 1v1 mode, it becomes a TEAM fight. This means that you have a team that can help you. Honor and Dishonor in this game are abstract ideas.

Gray360UK
04-05-2017, 10:20 PM
Where are you getting the idea that this game was supposed to be honorable? In a larger than 1v1 mode, it becomes a TEAM fight. This means that you have a team that can help you. Honor and Dishonor in this game are abstract ideas.

Exactly, and it's a bit of a sick twist on honour anyway, as with so many of these people with their screwed up logic. Why is it honourable for him to suddenly have a super weapon that his opponents do not have that he can destroy all of them with? How is THAT honour? It's like taking a Rocket Launcher to a knife fight and calling it honourable. Laughable really ;)

KnifeInUrNeck
04-05-2017, 10:24 PM
Lol this is a joke right? Revenge is a crutch for players who are ****ty at team work. You shouldn't win a 1v 3. If you're in that position, you deserve to be punished, not rewarded. How about coordinate with your team like was required before revenge spam. This game would have been so much better without it. People would then have to rely on teamwork and positioning instead of now running into a group of 3 by yourself so you can get revenge. Anyone that fails to see that is either too in love with their revenge spam or a fool. And yeah, having to run away from a guy every time he goes super sayan kinda ruins the flow of combat.....Jesus. Connection issues are the biggest problem in this game followed by stupid gear decisions and lack of content. Just because you have fun revenge spamming, doesn't mean it's good for the game.

CandleInTheDark
04-05-2017, 10:26 PM
Exactly, and it's a bit of a sick twist on honour anyway, as with so many of these people with their screwed up logic. Why is it honourable for him to suddenly have a super weapon that his opponents do not have that he can destroy all of them with? How is THAT honour? It's like taking a Rocket Launcher to a knife fight and calling it honourable. Laughable really ;)

Hey well we fight a guy carrying a freakin tree with a dagger and a shanking knife >.> :p

Gray360UK
04-05-2017, 10:28 PM
Hey well we fight a guy carrying a freakin tree with a dagger and a shanking knife >.> :p

Haha ... you might have a point there ;)

Yokonato
04-05-2017, 10:35 PM
why is the counter arguement against revenge always seem to players ran towards multiple opponents sometimes you are beating someone just to have the whole team break from their fights and converge on your position, numerous times im playing brawl or elim to find myself being pinballed when a conq blindsides me and the whole team assaults me suddenly before my team can get their opponents back

CandleInTheDark
04-05-2017, 10:36 PM
In that case your teammate failed to have your back while the other team worked better together, they still don't deserve to be two or three shotted because they were better at working together.

Yokonato
04-05-2017, 10:47 PM
In that case your teammate failed to have your back while the other team worked better together, they still don't deserve to be two or three shotted because they were better at working together.

Not really failing to have my back i did say they before they would get their opponents back, just the simple fact of the slight delay of you being locked on a opponent they then suddenly bursting into sprint away from you, just found this thread kind of hypocritical on both sides, for all the people who put good reasons for nerfing revenge most of you guys also just say "O players shouldn't be punished if they gang up on a single enemy" therefore causing revenge to build up in the first place which devs basically made as a balancer when you get outnumbered and to essentially punish ganks why even the tooltip says to pop revenge when outnumbered, because these are the same people who will be in another thread telling people to get good and how skilled they are at the game but a single person they can block , parry and throw off ledges is suddenly a issue, I main lawbringer the moment I started the game cause i thought he was fun, as soon as I see the shield glowing yellow i longarm them hit them with a light, than parry their other blows and gb them or keep distance til they dead or revenge gonna because its not a free heal, if they were almost dead as soon as revenge dies they are still with a sliver of hp,

CandleInTheDark
04-05-2017, 11:04 PM
Not really failing to have my back i did say they before they would get their opponents back, just the simple fact of the slight delay of you being locked on a opponent they then suddenly bursting into sprint away from you, just found this thread kind of hypocritical on both sides, for all the people who put good reasons for nerfing revenge most of you guys also just say "O players shouldn't be punished if they gang up on a single enemy" therefore causing revenge to build up in the first place which devs basically made as a balancer when you get outnumbered and to essentially punish ganks why even the tooltip says to pop revenge when outnumbered, because these are the same people who will be in another thread telling people to get good and how skilled they are at the game but a single person they can block , parry and throw off ledges is suddenly a issue, I main lawbringer the moment I started the game cause i thought he was fun, as soon as I see the shield glowing yellow i longarm them hit them with a light, than parry their other blows and gb them or keep distance til they dead or revenge gonna because its not a free heal, if they were almost dead as soon as revenge dies they are still with a sliver of hp,

Like I say, my experience in pvp is shooters, more specifically Destiny. If I get into a gun fight with four people who are flanking me, able to get a gun on me and can actually shoot,I am dead,probably even with the special.Thing is that special was there as an overpowered tool that was a reward for good play, better you play, quicker you have a one shot gun or a bow and arrow that fires an AOE disabler in for honor terms or turn into a knife wielding slasher maniac(in terms of my class and its subclasses in any case), thing is while they were overpowered (and were they ever, if six people were in one place and not very quick they were dead) they were designed for that purpose. Revenge is not designed for that purpose but now with the right build someone can take on four, a situation odds are he shouldn't be in in the first place, and constantly have revenge activated.

The difference between Destiny and For Honor? Genre, Destiny is a space shooter, you started off dead, something revived you and constantly increases your health bar when you're not taking damage. Ignoring the fact that there has evidently been copious amounts of time travel, For Honor is a medieval hand to hand combat sim, you are not supposed to run into a room with four people, back yourself into a corner safe in the knowledge that four people can't kill you and come out living.

In any case, my argument has always been the developers know why they put revenge in and if they say it is not being used for the purpose they had in mind, outside of that it makes sense anyway, I believe them.

Yokonato
04-05-2017, 11:28 PM
Like I say, my experience in pvp is shooters, more specifically Destiny. If I get into a gun fight with four people who are flanking me, able to get a gun on me and can actually shoot,I am dead,probably even with the special.Thing is that special was there as an overpowered tool that was a reward for good play, better you play, quicker you have a one shot gun or a bow and arrow that fires an AOE disabler in for honor terms or turn into a knife wielding slasher maniac(in terms of my class and its subclasses in any case), thing is while they were overpowered (and were they ever, if six people were in one place and not very quick they were dead) they were designed for that purpose. Revenge is not designed for that purpose but now with the right build someone can take on four, a situation odds are he shouldn't be in in the first place, and constantly have revenge activated.

The difference between Destiny and For Honor? Genre, Destiny is a space shooter, you started off dead, something revived you and constantly increases your health bar when you're not taking damage. Ignoring the fact that there has evidently been copious amounts of time travel, For Honor is a medieval hand to hand combat sim, you are not supposed to run into a room with four people, back yourself into a corner safe in the knowledge that four people can't kill you and come out living.

In any case, my argument has always been the developers know why they put revenge in and if they say it is not being used for the purpose they had in mind, outside of that it makes sense anyway, I believe them.

I see well I have no issue with you then, but half this thread seems to be more about people who want revenge to be almost nonexistent unless Devs also make friendly fire at 80 percent or more all im seeing if future ganks being the common place, since your not suppose to be able to fight more than 1 target even though they make room for that ex. parry block window can deflect multiple strikes if timed right, I honestly feel as long as revenge gain is nerfed and remove some duration its more than fine, and remove it from 1 v 1 completely but from the game as a whole? No I cant agree with that

xLeapingLizardx
04-05-2017, 11:37 PM
Before you judge this by its title and post that revenge mode needs to be nerfed to HELL, please read this thread thoroughly. If you have any reasons why it should be nerfed ill gladly start a friendly arguement with you as to why it shouldn't be, unless your reason is completely valid in my eyes. Thank you.
Don't nerf revenge/revenge gear and I have very good reason why it shouldn't be nerfed:
Revenge is made to give outnumbered players a chance in combat. But before we cover why this is CRITICALLY important, lets cover 1 v 1 revenge mode:
In 1 v 1, if someone uses revenge, you can easily run/backroll to avoid their revenge, or make their meter die down. That is a very simple solution to revenge in 1 v 1. If they gain revenge: Exit guard mode and run, their revenge meter will gradually go down the longer you aren't targetting them. If they already used revenge, immediately backroll and keep backstepping until it wears off. Go full defense mode. This is very simple to do and eliminates the danger of revenge in a 1 v 1.

Since I have a whole thread that stands against revenge in any form of 1v1 fights, I'll engage in this discussion and get your point of view..
(I have read nothing in this thread except for your original post)

So the first thing you say is that you can easily run away to wait out their revenge... Generally how does that add fun to the game? This person blocks a few times so now you have to run/back out of the fight and wait and wait? In my experience revenge usually triggers for the person losing the fight... So since my opponent is losing our swordfight he is granted a fight changing buff that I have to run and back away to wait for it to wear off? Even though I was winning the fight?

Also, what happens when they get revenge immediately when you guardbreak and you go for the free heavy (on most characters), but they activate revenge you get knocked down and they get a heavy hit that takes away a substantial amount of health. You may say "Oh feint the heavy or throw him instead of the heavy", but usually when you successfully guardbreak you don't even think about needing to feint or throwing unless there is a wall. So now because of the looming threat of revenge in 1v1 fights have to be ready to feint even after a guardbreak?

Another thing I usually say when on this subject is that this game is all about "having the feeling of actually holding a sword in your hand, locking eyes with your opponent, and engage in swordplay". That happens in many fights but when revenge interrupts a nice steady sword fight, it is not healthy for the game.

Last point would be this: ok so there is one enemy and 2 of you, you decide to engage the enemy while your ally stands back so the enemy won't build revenge... BUT because the way revenge currently is in 1v1 fights, the enemy gets revenge anyways which defeated the entire purpose of not 2v1ing him in the first place. So now your "solution" takes effect. Run away? So you had 2 guys on 1 guy but one of the 2 decided to let the 1v1 happen so revenge wouldn't happen but revenge happens anyway so now the 2 people are running around waiting for his revenge to wear out... Wow sounds fun....
Basically what is happening in this game for me is anytime I face a 108 geared opponent he is going to get revenge 90% if the time...
So in Elimination when I am 1v1ing him or in dominion when I am going to take point A away from him and its just me and him, he will very likely get revenge in out encounters. This generally makes the game way less fun knowing that the awesome sword fighting mechanics and intense 1v1 duels don't matter when your opponent says "ROAR now DIE" because of revenge. Or ,in the case of your solution, "Hey I know we are heavy an awesome intense duel but you blocked (or not even.. I've had fights where my opponent got revenge without blocking once) too much so now I gotta run around"...

I believe that just because something has a counter-play doesn't mean it is balanced or healthy for the game.

Also feel free to check out my thread I referred to and maybe watch the videos I put up on there to see my point:
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1616222-Revenge-Mode-Triggering-in-1v1-Fights

Manlorey
04-05-2017, 11:51 PM
Lol this is a joke right? Revenge is a crutch for players who are ****ty at team work.
I guess we have now ganking counting as good teamwork. Oh, brother.


People would then have to rely on teamwork and positioning instead of now running into a group of 3 by yourself so you can get revenge. Anyone that fails to see that is either too in love with their revenge spam or a fool.
You know people who do that, running head on into a group of playerscounting on revenge to kill all 3? What platform and tier do you play, I want to join too. Doing that is a very stupid idea, if your adversaries are any good, they will cc and punish you while you dont know if you should attack or block (had 3 pks battle you same time, mate?). When was the last time you played, say we say, dominion?


You shouldn't win a 1v 3. If you're in that position, you deserve to be punished, not rewarded,
You can, and you should. If your opponents dont know what the heck they are doing with their game and do not put any effort into countering the revenge mode (by actual clever positioning and control of the battlefield), they deserve to lose, but you are suggesting regardless how bad your opponents are, they deserve to be rewarded.


And yeah, having to run away from a guy every time he goes super sayan kinda ruins the flow of combat.
That is entirely subjective. You pause in combat every 3-4 attacks in general, you actually notice that if you pay attention to "the flow of combat" as shown on the streams.


Just because you have fun revenge spamming, doesn't mean it's good for the game.
Your assumption doesnt fit, that much said I can only speak for myself, as I do not enjoy or want to spam revenge, but I appreciate it as a tool against constant brainless gank. You seem to believe that revenge automatically gives you an I-win-button, which is quite wrong, It does nothing like that - you can get killed while in revenge as easily as without it, with revenge serving as a momentum change, which is a fair chance, but nothing more.

Yokonato
04-06-2017, 12:06 AM
Since I have a whole thread that stands against revenge in any form of 1v1 fights, I'll engage in this discussion and get your point of view..
(I have read nothing in this thread except for your original post)

So the first thing you say is that you can easily run away to wait out their revenge... Generally how does that add fun to the game? This person blocks a few times so now you have to run/back out of the fight and wait and wait? In my experience revenge usually triggers for the person losing the fight... So since my opponent is losing our swordfight he is granted a fight changing buff that I have to run and back away to wait for it to wear off? Even though I was winning the fight?

Also, what happens when they get revenge immediately when you guardbreak and you go for the free heavy (on most characters), but they activate revenge you get knocked down and they get a heavy hit that takes away a substantial amount of health. You may say "Oh feint the heavy or throw him instead of the heavy", but usually when you successfully guardbreak you don't even think about needing to feint or throwing unless there is a wall. So now because of the looming threat of revenge in 1v1 fights have to be ready to feint even after a guardbreak?

Another thing I usually say when on this subject is that this game is all about "having the feeling of actually holding a sword in your hand, locking eyes with your opponent, and engage in swordplay". That happens in many fights but when revenge interrupts a nice steady sword fight, it is not healthy for the game.

Last point would be this: ok so there is one enemy and 2 of you, you decide to engage the enemy while your ally stands back so the enemy won't build revenge... BUT because the way revenge currently is in 1v1 fights, the enemy gets revenge anyways which defeated the entire purpose of not 2v1ing him in the first place. So now your "solution" takes effect. Run away? So you had 2 guys on 1 guy but one of the 2 decided to let the 1v1 happen so revenge wouldn't happen but revenge happens anyway so now the 2 people are running around waiting for his revenge to wear out... Wow sounds fun....
Basically what is happening in this game for me is anytime I face a 108 geared opponent he is going to get revenge 90% if the time...
So in Elimination when I am 1v1ing him or in dominion when I am going to take point A away from him and its just me and him, he will very likely get revenge in out encounters. This generally makes the game way less fun knowing that the awesome sword fighting mechanics and intense 1v1 duels don't matter when your opponent says "ROAR now DIE" because of revenge. Or ,in the case of your solution, "Hey I know we are heavy an awesome intense duel but you blocked (or not even.. I've had fights where my opponent got revenge without blocking once) too much so now I gotta run around"...

I believe that just because something has a counter-play doesn't mean it is balanced or healthy for the game.

Also feel free to check out my thread I referred to and maybe watch the videos I put up on there to see my point:
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1616222-Revenge-Mode-Triggering-in-1v1-Fights

Looked at your videos to see and have to agree with one commenter you are in a gear stat game mode, Im a person that says revenge can be nerfed on its speed gain however out of all your videos you take damage IE. revenge on attack you also smack into guard quite a bit IE. revenge on defense and after all that you get a glaring yellow symbol that says dont hit that guy yet you proceed to do it anyway, most of those clips just show you getting knocked down cause of a lack of awareness and not even parrying some standard moves, the warlord headbutt i understand but than you have clips like the orochi and nobushi easy parry that you could have punished or kept the distance with, yet you just relentless attack til you get killed by revenge

xLeapingLizardx
04-06-2017, 09:16 PM
Looked at your videos to see and have to agree with one commenter you are in a gear stat game mode, Im a person that says revenge can be nerfed on its speed gain however out of all your videos you take damage IE. revenge on attack you also smack into guard quite a bit IE. revenge on defense and after all that you get a glaring yellow symbol that says dont hit that guy yet you proceed to do it anyway, most of those clips just show you getting knocked down cause of a lack of awareness and not even parrying some standard moves, the warlord headbutt i understand but than you have clips like the orochi and nobushi easy parry that you could have punished or kept the distance with, yet you just relentless attack til you get killed by revenge

I don't want to say the stuff I already said in the post you quoted/in the thread I linked but: I don't care what mode it is, If it is a 1v1 fight between 2 fighters why should this buff be present? Some clips they get revenge on my guard break and it is basically muscle memory to go for the heavy after that, I should not have to be ready to feint a free heavy just because they get revenge out of nowhere.

Honestly I am trying to figure out what videos you were watching?
I cant be perfect and parry every move. But when an enemy gets revenge I suddenly have to play 100% perfectly or I will die, even if I was plainly winning the fight, which makes zero sense..
Getting knocked down because of lack of awareness?
1st video He hit me because I was trying to parry and missed the timing etc.
2nd video he pops revenge and guard breaks me.. Maybe I tried to dodge back to gain distance like everyone and their momma tells me to do and he gets free guard break.. (If you want to tell me to unlock and roll away from a fight, tell me how that is good for the game)
3rd video again is where he gets revenge from a guard break when I am basically already decided to go for a heavy, I shouldn't have to be in constant fear of revenge triggering when I guard break.
4th video was trying to dash away because out of stamina and maybe because of nobushi getting revenge, end up getting guard broken (uncounterable) she pops revenge into heavy (Sorry I didn't parry it, I can't be perfect) kick, knockdown, dead. (I was also thrown off for the rest of the fight cuz I do not understand how she didn't die from me throwing her to the ground into dash heavy plus poison.)
5th video he blocks ONE time in that encounter so of course why not give him super buff because fairness. I did parry him and mistakably went for the guard break (still getting used to what I can and can't guardbreak after parry).
6th video she blocks ZERO times!! Obviously she must have had high defense gear as she wasn't taking nearly as much damage as she should have compared to me. So while I am trying to be careful and plan a way to come back, that is shot down because she gets revenge because fairness! Missed the timing on the parry of the dash attack (sorry can't be perfect every time).
7th video once again the revenge triggers in the middle of my guard break, same reasonings of why that shouldn't happen as before. Also was generally thrown off because he didn't die from the previous guard break heavy..

So now in these videos I am trying to find where you say I "relentless attack".... I see that nowhere at all... Where do I "relentless attack" please tell me, I want to understand....

Yokonato
04-06-2017, 10:10 PM
I don't want to say the stuff I already said in the post you quoted/in the thread I linked but: I don't care what mode it is, If it is a 1v1 fight between 2 fighters why should this buff be present? Some clips they get revenge on my guard break and it is basically muscle memory to go for the heavy after that, I should not have to be ready to feint a free heavy just because they get revenge out of nowhere.

Honestly I am trying to figure out what videos you were watching?
I cant be perfect and parry every move. But when an enemy gets revenge I suddenly have to play 100% perfectly or I will die, even if I was plainly winning the fight, which makes zero sense..
Getting knocked down because of lack of awareness?
1st video He hit me because I was trying to parry and missed the timing etc.
2nd video he pops revenge and guard breaks me.. Maybe I tried to dodge back to gain distance like everyone and their momma tells me to do and he gets free guard break.. (If you want to tell me to unlock and roll away from a fight, tell me how that is good for the game)
3rd video again is where he gets revenge from a guard break when I am basically already decided to go for a heavy, I shouldn't have to be in constant fear of revenge triggering when I guard break.
4th video was trying to dash away because out of stamina and maybe because of nobushi getting revenge, end up getting guard broken (uncounterable) she pops revenge into heavy (Sorry I didn't parry it, I can't be perfect) kick, knockdown, dead. (I was also thrown off for the rest of the fight cuz I do not understand how she didn't die from me throwing her to the ground into dash heavy plus poison.)
5th video he blocks ONE time in that encounter so of course why not give him super buff because fairness. I did parry him and mistakably went for the guard break (still getting used to what I can and can't guardbreak after parry).
6th video she blocks ZERO times!! Obviously she must have had high defense gear as she wasn't taking nearly as much damage as she should have compared to me. So while I am trying to be careful and plan a way to come back, that is shot down because she gets revenge because fairness! Missed the timing on the parry of the dash attack (sorry can't be perfect every time).
7th video once again the revenge triggers in the middle of my guard break, same reasonings of why that shouldn't happen as before. Also was generally thrown off because he didn't die from the previous guard break heavy..

So now in these videos I am trying to find where you say I "relentless attack".... I see that nowhere at all... Where do I "relentless attack" please tell me, I want to understand....

Your first 2 videos I barely see you parry the more obvious moves from your opponents hell against the orochi you come at him twice in a row with the same top heavy and get punished for it, you probably were dead anyway since it seems that enemy warlord had been sitting behind you for a min and you wouldnt have gotten a execution for health anyways the warlord I let slide god knoes alot of players are turtles , the nobushi comes at you 3 times from the right with obvious pokes you only counter the 3rd, you could have finished her off once you got that GB but instead you tossed them to the side? Thats not revenge fault thats not finishing the fight when you had a opportunity, the final pk video you once again were preety much dead anyways, maybe if you parry you could have broke off and retreated but that amount of hp you wouldn't have survived that poke to the face regardless, and when I say attack relentlessly In all your videos even when you see your opponent having a more superior defense you stay offensive like all the classes you were playing had a nasty parry punishment but no you kept charging ahead and than died for it, most of those fights could have been ended if you parried once or twice more

Tesla...
04-06-2017, 10:22 PM
The only thing that needs to get out of this game is the gear.In 1 vs 1 there is no gear.Greedy Ubisoft as always.I hope Vivendi will get them this year :))

omg I hope not ! recents ubisoft games like "For Honor" and "R6 Siege" are really uniques and originals. You really want Vivendi Universal gets ubisoft and force them to only do bad universal movies licenses... ?

xLeapingLizardx
04-06-2017, 10:58 PM
Your first 2 videos I barely see you parry the more obvious moves from your opponents hell against the orochi you come at him twice in a row with the same top heavy and get punished for it, you probably were dead anyway since it seems that enemy warlord had been sitting behind you for a min and you wouldnt have gotten a execution for health anyways the warlord I let slide god knoes alot of players are turtles , the nobushi comes at you 3 times from the right with obvious pokes you only counter the 3rd, you could have finished her off once you got that GB but instead you tossed them to the side? Thats not revenge fault thats not finishing the fight when you had a opportunity, the final pk video you once again were preety much dead anyways, maybe if you parry you could have broke off and retreated but that amount of hp you wouldn't have survived that poke to the face regardless, and when I say attack relentlessly In all your videos even when you see your opponent having a more superior defense you stay offensive like all the classes you were playing had a nasty parry punishment but no you kept charging ahead and than died for it, most of those fights could have been ended if you parried once or twice more
We really should be talking about this in the other thread instead of crowding this but meh.
I parried twice in both the Orochi fights (the first 2 videos) they parried me not once, but they get revenge. Stop saying this "you didn't parry the obvious moves blah blah". That doesn't matter, mistakes and misplays are supposed to happen, that is part of the swordplay central to this game. But the swordplay means nothing with revenge in 1v1 fights. You say I came at the Orochi with 2 of the same top heavies? Which video? I don't see that happen at all, which again has me wondering if we are watching the same clips. I don't care if I would have died or not, the point is that the revenge proccing should not happen in the fight, Don't care about the subject of ganking right now.

Onto the nobushi fight, how does the 3 stabs matter at all in this subject? I got hit by one (which I believe is an automatic hit after the kick), dodged the next, parried the last one, so what exactly is your point?.. I tossed her to the side because she was out of stamina, I knew she would fall, and she had low enough health that I seriously thought the dash heavy plus poison stab would have been enough (Like I still don't understand how she survived that). As far as I know PK doesn't get a free heavy after guardbreak, so that wasn't an option. I probably should have either done the 3 stabs which may have finished her (though she probably would have gotten revenge before she died by the bleed) or 2 stabs and throw, she would fall, then I could finish her off with the dash heavy (still a high chance she could have gotten revenge from that also). But again I am allowed to make mistakes, that is part of the game, and I thought she was gonna be straight up dead from the dash heavy after she fell (So I didn't "throw her to the side", I threw her because she was out of stamina and I was taking advantage of that because that is what you do)...

As for the last PK fight: "Pretty much dead" doesn't solve or address the problem... Admittedly at that point I was so pissed she got revenge it got me out of my focus and I was just ready to record it so I could post it here. The revenge proc basically gave me a much slimmer chance of a comeback.. Why aren't you addressing the fact that she blocked (or parried, since in your view, a few more of those would be the key to victory) ZERO times and got revenge?

On each video, I parried more than my opponent sooooo okay then.....
You say I stayed on the offensive and kept charging ahead... You make it sound like I am a mindless player or something lol... I parried and block plenty, so I am obviously not some mindless hack and slasher...
Also in a 1v1 fight why am I not allowed to play the way I want? This game is centralized around those intense fights but I can't be too offensive (even I wasn't as offensive as you want to think, other than maybe a few but again I am allowed to make mistakes). So now you are basically promoting being a turtle which is what the community is trying to minimalize. In a 1v1 fight you should be able to use different strategies to win, not only parry parry parry... (I use a mix of offense and defense, which you can clearly see in the clips). I understand parry is important and essential but that shouldn't be the only way to play. And as you can say parry doesn't mean that much since you can do no parries the whole fight but still get revenge anyway because fairness.

Honestly what I would like to see is for you to look at one of my posts (either the first post I made in this thread or some of my posts in the other thread) and actually address the points I am bringing up. I constantly make valid points on why it is unbalanced and no one address them at all... I don't need to hear counter plays and people telling me to run away when they glow because I am not a runner and what fun is that to be winning a fight to just have to back off and play the dodgy parry game (Which if you slip up once, you potentially die)....

Yokonato
04-06-2017, 11:28 PM
We really should be talking about this in the other thread instead of crowding this but meh.
I parried twice in both the Orochi fights (the first 2 videos) they parried me not once, but they get revenge. Stop saying this "you didn't parry the obvious moves blah blah". That doesn't matter, mistakes and misplays are supposed to happen, that is part of the swordplay central to this game. But the swordplay means nothing with revenge in 1v1 fights. You say I came at the Orochi with 2 of the same top heavies? Which video? I don't see that happen at all, which again has me wondering if we are watching the same clips. I don't care if I would have died or not, the point is that the revenge proccing should not happen in the fight, Don't care about the subject of ganking right now.

Onto the nobushi fight, how does the 3 stabs matter at all in this subject? I got hit by one (which I believe is an automatic hit after the kick), dodged the next, parried the last one, so what exactly is your point?.. I tossed her to the side because she was out of stamina, I knew she would fall, and she had low enough health that I seriously thought the dash heavy plus poison stab would have been enough (Like I still don't understand how she survived that). As far as I know PK doesn't get a free heavy after guardbreak, so that wasn't an option. I probably should have either done the 3 stabs which may have finished her (though she probably would have gotten revenge before she died by the bleed) or 2 stabs and throw, she would fall, then I could finish her off with the dash heavy (still a high chance she could have gotten revenge from that also). But again I am allowed to make mistakes, that is part of the game, and I thought she was gonna be straight up dead from the dash heavy after she fell (So I didn't "throw her to the side", I threw her because she was out of stamina and I was taking advantage of that because that is what you do)...

As for the last PK fight: "Pretty much dead" doesn't solve or address the problem... Admittedly at that point I was so pissed she got revenge it got me out of my focus and I was just ready to record it so I could post it here. The revenge proc basically gave me a much slimmer chance of a comeback.. Why aren't you addressing the fact that she blocked (or parried, since in your view, a few more of those would be the key to victory) ZERO times and got revenge?

On each video, I parried more than my opponent sooooo okay then.....
You say I stayed on the offensive and kept charging ahead... You make it sound like I am a mindless player or something lol... I parried and block plenty, so I am obviously not some mindless hack and slasher...
Also in a 1v1 fight why am I not allowed to play the way I want? This game is centralized around those intense fights but I can't be too offensive (even I wasn't as offensive as you want to think, other than maybe a few but again I am allowed to make mistakes). So now you are basically promoting being a turtle which is what the community is trying to minimalize. In a 1v1 fight you should be able to use different strategies to win, not only parry parry parry... (I use a mix of offense and defense, which you can clearly see in the clips). I understand parry is important and essential but that shouldn't be the only way to play. And as you can say parry doesn't mean that much since you can do no parries the whole fight but still get revenge anyway because fairness.

Honestly what I would like to see is for you to look at one of my posts (either the first post I made in this thread or some of my posts in the other thread) and actually address the points I am bringing up. I constantly make valid points on why it is unbalanced and no one address them at all... I don't need to hear counter plays and people telling me to run away when they glow because I am not a runner and what fun is that to be winning a fight to just have to back off and play the dodgy parry game (Which if you slip up once, you potentially die)....

I meant you could have tossed that nobushi into a wall for a stumble and not have to rely on juming a distance for a hit, and parries are a pretty big deal when played assassins or any class meant the end of most of the fights hp being taken in chunks instead of the minimal ticks u were doing through those fights

xLeapingLizardx
04-06-2017, 11:47 PM
I meant you could have tossed that nobushi into a wall for a stumble and not have to rely on juming a distance for a hit, and parries are a pretty big deal when played assassins or any class meant the end of most of the fights hp being taken in chunks instead of the minimal ticks u were doing through those fights
Honestly didn't even think of that... But I am 90% sure I would still have had to dodge heavy to reach her.. The PK flips away so far I don't believe I would have been able to get a plain heavy to connect.

So I guess you aren't going to address the points that I want addressed when having these discussions. So I guess the discussion ends here, I do thank you for your input and perspective, very much appreciated!

Yokonato
04-07-2017, 12:04 AM
Honestly didn't even think of that... But I am 90% sure I would still have had to dodge heavy to reach her.. The PK flips away so far I don't believe I would have been able to get a plain heavy to connect.

So I guess you aren't going to address the points that I want addressed when having these discussions. So I guess the discussion ends here, I do thank you for your input and perspective, very much appreciated!

From the sounds of things revenge got a massive nerf so I saw no reason to beat that dead horse i was addressing what you could change not to be just knocked over or give your opponent a "revenge shield" but in all seriousness off to work, ill reply later if not cya

HarambeVendetta
04-07-2017, 11:42 AM
"In 1 v 1, if someone uses revenge, you can easily run/backroll to avoid their revenge, or make their meter die down. That is a very simple solution to revenge in 1 v 1. ".

And that's where i stopped reading. I'm going to test out the nerfed revenge today, That disgusting noob mode was the reason why i stoped playing the game for more than a month now, and belive me a huge portion of the playerbase including several friends did that.

SInce that disgusting feature is adjusted , maybe it's time to play again. I have high hopes.

Shantak_
04-07-2017, 12:40 PM
IMO, they should rework the revenge system completely:
1.If only 1 player is locked onto you and hits you, revenge will not be gainable AT ALL
2.If 2 players locked on to you and both hit you atleast 2 times you revenge meter should start rising 15% per hit, and the revenge gain should quicken as more players are locked onto you and hit you (3 players = 25% gain, 4 players = 34%)
3.When activated revenge mode, your heavy attacks should be 50% faster and deal 33% more damage, while light attacks do %20 more damage and are only 10% faster (to prevent Assasin spam)
4.Charging attacks (Conqueror's and Warden's bash, Warlord's headbutt, etc.) should knock multiple people over in a small radius if 3 or more players are ganking you
5.Revenge should last according to the number of players ganking you (2 players = 8 seconds, 3 players = 13, 4 players = 17)
6.Gear should not affect revenge (or any stats in general and be purely cosmetic, like Rainbow Six Siege or Team Fortress 2)
7.Attacks in revenge mode should be blockable (only if 3 or more are currently ganking you), and players in revenge mode cannot be guardbroken (2 or more)

Leave suggestions

i like your idea!