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View Full Version : Disparity between Consoles & PC - some thoughts and questions



Herbstlicht
03-31-2017, 03:14 PM
Hello dear community,

i wanted to ask your opinion how you do feel about the disparity between PC and Console platforms (control issues like deadzone, hidden stance etc as well as input and display lag due to controller / tv instead of screen / kbm). I do not like to talk about advantages here or bringing the game on "parity" within all platforms. My goal is simply to collect some thoughts about how to improve specially on some console specific problems as aforementioned.

So on console, many people feel the PK is way to strong, whereas PC-players seem to deem the warlord as the worst. Even on PC many people dislike the large difference in the recovery of the block animation, but on console, the effect is even more prominent. A good thing, in some kind of way, might be that you see many kinda offensive orientated fights without a lot of turtling, however, the farther you climb up, the more speed and with this frame advantages show.

In the end, I ultimately ask you:
Do you think the disparity should be adressed?
Would you rather see PC as lead platform for balancing and reference?
Would you prefer consoles as lead platform for balancing and reference?


And to clarify: I do not mean PC should be locked at 30 fps too or console should be like 60 fps. "Parity" like i imagine it in this case, is for a player heading from console to pc and back experiencing pretty much the same. Like the skills and timing you have learned on one platform should transfer to the other and vice versa.

Edit 2:
It is kinda interesting that some people would like balancing around pc and seem not to care about the console player base. Sadly no one gave some reasoning behind this.
Would anyone tell me why this may be the case?
Console players might be the vocal minority on the Forums, but from a revenue perspective, i guess they outweigh the PC playerbase by a very large margin.

tonycawley69
03-31-2017, 03:24 PM
Disparity exists because of differences in hardware and the capabilities of each. There's very little that can be done about it.

Whilst cross-platform play doesn't exist, it isn't a problem. I play on PS4 against other players on PS4, I don't play against pc players so why should it bother me if they have slightly better or worse frame rate, or slightly better or worse input delay?

Herbstlicht
03-31-2017, 03:34 PM
Whilst cross-platform play doesn't exist, it isn't a problem. I play on PS4 against other players on PS4, I don't play against pc players so why should it bother me if they have slightly better or worse frame rate, or slightly better or worse input delay?

Uhm well, because the game does play differently. With the examples given, the Peacekeeper is very hard to deal with, characters that have a slow block change have a harder time and so on. So if for example PC would be the only platform considered for balancing issues, in some time there might only be like 3 top characters running the game on console. The same might happen if it is done the opposite way around.

It is a little bit like Overwatch, though the difference here is not the controller alone, it is more about input time and reactions in opposite to precision.

Not that i don't like For Honor on Console, i love it; the controls feel natural and the visuals (even at 30 fps) are beautiful.

Anyway, that might be simply only my concerns about something that isn't such a big deal. Such the reason i created this thread together with it's poll :-) So thanks a lot for your input ^^

Pope138
03-31-2017, 03:43 PM
Higher framerate means more reaction time.
I'd wager most of the people calling for nerfs play on console.

Herbstlicht
03-31-2017, 03:54 PM
Higher framerate means more reaction time.
I'd wager most of the people calling for nerfs play on console.

Well, it is more then just frame rate. Wireless controllers take time to communicate with the Console. TV's have between 20 and 80ms reaction time whereas an average PC-screen has like 3ms those days. All this adds up.

That's the sole reason i am asking these question by the way. Personally, i feel kinda impacted by this and the balancing of the game the way i do experience it of course is affected.
Besides, with "parity", i do not mean 60 fps gameplay or locking PC to 30 fps. It is more about trying to deliver an even experience across the platforms.

Uhm and you might be right, possibly, some complaints might come from console gamers specifically.

RatedChaotic
03-31-2017, 05:12 PM
Think you pretty much answered that yourself. If theres that much of a difference between consoles and pc. If they used the pc as the main balance reference. It will just hurt console players or vice versa. It should be separate.

Thief183
03-31-2017, 05:18 PM
I spent a load of money to have the less input lag possible, I only use cabled joypad or k/m... If parity will mean doumbing down my game.. I'm out.

I don't see a simple solution...

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
03-31-2017, 05:28 PM
I spent a load of money to have the less input lag possible, I only use cabled joypad or k/m... If parity will mean doumbing down my game.. I'm out.

I don't see a simple solution...

Console or PC?

Herbstlicht
03-31-2017, 09:35 PM
Simple solution? Dunno.
But if you balance towards the biggest playerbase for example, it might impact pc in a negative way. Same thing the other way around.

Anyway, i do not mean parity from s technical or visual aspect. More like if you are good on pc, your skills should transfer seemlessly to console and vice versa. In relation to timings, how the characters play etc.

If a character that is too fast for console players to handle gets her most defining traits destroyed for those on pc, it would feel wrong. But there should not be stuff that is way harder to deal with on one platform in comparison to another. At least i do hope that UbiSoft does agree on this.

UbiJurassic
04-01-2017, 12:11 AM
This may be the first time that this topic has been brought up here. I appreciate the feedback you all have left so far and I'm looking forward to reading everyone else's thoughts.

Genesiz13
04-01-2017, 12:52 AM
From my point of view, there are 3 points that must be addressed:

1. Cross-Platform Equal experience: Experiencing For honor On Consoles Vs Experiencing it on PC will never be equal simply because of the diversity in hardware on the PC's side. A unified experience betweeen consoles and PC is not possible because every single console is manufactured the exact same way, they perform equally. every PS4 and every XBOX will run the game the same way ( graphically speaking at least). the attack speeds, reaction timeframes, the perceived ranges, durations, etc, will be the same for every player. a lot of this game is muscle, visual and auditory memory. as you play, you start to remember how far attacks go, how long they last, what time to counter, etc. All of these, however, will be different between consoles and PC, maybe even inbetween PCs. The hardware On Pc is simply not standardized like the consoles, so framerate, controller input delay,, the graphic quality, effects, etc. if a veteran console for honor player switched to PC for the first time, the experience will always be different, because the Person's biological hardware does not change ( reaction time, visual prowess, memory, etc) but the gaming system's does. attempting to make a universal experience ( to give an example, wanting that Attack A needs to be executed exactly 1 second before Attack B to be succesful On both platforms). That is one of the reasons that consoles vs PC should be balanced separately. The experience will always be different between console and Pc, which is why the basis for tweaks and alterations should also be diferent.

2. the development's target audience: In my opinion, a gaming company should always attempt to develop a game with the large community in Mind. And my large community, i do not refer to the difference between the console and PC playerbase, i refer to the arguments people present regarding competitive play. they argue that major competitive organizations provide the best in hardware, be it controllers, monitors, systems, etc. a game should not be developed based solely on the experience of the major competitive players. the game is for everyone, it should be for the people who work everyday to earn their money then decide to spend it buying a game hoping to have a fun time playing maybe 1 hour a day. or the people who like to gather with friends and play some matches, etc. the game is for the people, the people who don't have access to the highest quality controllers, monitors, etc. So the balance needs to take into account the average person's hardware, not the very best of the world.

3. Minimum and extra reaction timing: consider an average human's reaction time as X. now consider an attack that has a reaction timing of 2X. you only need X to react, any extra is to compensate for the disparity in human reaction times. so in this case, it wouldn't matter if you noticed the attack at the exact instant X or anywhere in between X and 2X, you still react. now, imagine that on a different gaming platform, the attacks reaction time is simply X. people with X or faster reaction time will react just like the people before did. but if someone has a reaction time slower than X, then the attack is literally impossible for them to react. that is the main problem between consoles and PC. On a PC, you might have more time to react. this means if you are able to do it on consoles, you can also do it on Pc. however, it may not be the case the other way around. while i stated that timings, memory, etc between platforms may be different, this argument does not apply to cases where you can do something on one platform and not on the other. what you can do on the game ( gameplay wise at least) should be universal. Attack A should be blockable Both on console and Pc. sure you may have more time to block on PC, but there is a certain frame of time that is simply extra, for example, it doesn't matter if you block just before an attack or a few milliisseconds eariler, you still block it. however, if on a platform there is simply no humanly possible way that you can react and block in time for an attack, that is simply unfair. this is why the platforms need to be balanced separately. a universal change to mechanics could simply result in more of these examples happening. they need to consider what is possible on both platforms.

anyway, those are my thoughts. hope i explained it well enough.

Hiero_Glyph
04-01-2017, 03:43 AM
This may be the first time that this topic has been brought up here. I appreciate the feedback you all have left so far and I'm looking forward to reading everyone else's thoughts.

KingRichard15 has won or placed in the top 2 in several tournaments and weeks ago he noted that PK was far too dominant on console due to the framerate/performance difference. As he mains PK he said that he could not play the console version ever again as it was simply unfair. He literally played the console version for less than 3 hours and he immediately noted how flawed the gameplay was. Are you really saying that this is the first you are hearing about this?

JeeNiNe
04-01-2017, 03:45 AM
This may be the first time that this topic has been brought up here. I appreciate the feedback you all have left so far and I'm looking forward to reading everyone else's thoughts.

If this game is trying be be competitive PC and console should be looked at separately, attack speed should go down by a few frames accross the board on console to adjust to the PC 60 fps. The 30 to 60 fps range changes the balance of this game completely. You cannot parry 500ms lights on reaction on console unless you already know the side where the attack is coming from. On PC you can. Thats a big game changer, it makes every characters that have 2 or more 500ms attacks much more powerful than the other classes.

JeeNiNe
04-01-2017, 03:50 AM
KingRichard15 has won or placed in the top 2 in several tournaments and weeks ago he noted that PK was far too dominant on console due to the framerate/performance difference. As he mains PK he said that he could not play the console version ever again as it was simply unfair. He literally played the console version for less than 3 hours and he immediately noted how flawed the gameplay was. Are you really saying that this is the first you are hearing about this?

yeah im surprised about the mod saying that its the 1rst time the topic is brought up, meaning that they never thought about balancing PC and Console seperatly that says a lot about how unbalanced this game is on console and how the defensive meta is more of a problem on PC.

Herbstlicht
04-01-2017, 06:26 PM
yeah im surprised about the mod saying that its the 1rst time the topic is brought up, meaning that they never thought about balancing PC and Console seperatly that says a lot about how unbalanced this game is on console and how the defensive meta is more of a problem on PC.

Hm, would you really see it is imbalanced on console? Of course, things may vary in perception, but i'd rather say the balancing feels different. And I really do not want to judge here, but on a personal level, more offensive oriented gameplay due to defence being kinda harder is something I enjoy.

Of course, strong swift Heros then might be even more over the top then on PC, but i would not say the overall experience does really suffer for it. At least not at my skill level ^^

Dunno, though, what people that are really experienced would have to add to this.