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hrvojej
03-14-2004, 07:43 PM
Ok, I finally found a plane that I can land without crashing all the time (seems quite sturdy in that respect http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ), and the one I've managed to get the complex engine management and instruments down. It's also the first plane to be flown in the Russian fighter campaigns, so everything is ok, except - flying it. When I practice alone, everything seems fine, and when I fly other planes (Yaks, Spits and some others) in dogfights I can do reasonably well. But in dogfights the I-16 seems to stall all the time, and lose speed at an incredible rate, which again causes it to stall. It's supposed to be a turn fighter, which is ok as I can handle that better than vertical maneuvres, but at the end of a turn it has lost so much speed that I usually just go down like a (spinning) rock. Because of its slow speed I really need those tight turns, but I seem to be doing something wrong. Any tips on how to fly it more efficiently would be appreciated.

And while I'm asking, I was also wondering about the optimal setting for CSP (and variable pitch props for that matter) in vertical maneuvers. All the guides I've read deal with dives, but I haven't been able to find good tips on settings for vertical climbs. I assume full throttle and rpm for CSP (and full throttle and 100% pitch for VPP)?

Thanks in advance.

hrvojej
03-14-2004, 07:43 PM
Ok, I finally found a plane that I can land without crashing all the time (seems quite sturdy in that respect http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ), and the one I've managed to get the complex engine management and instruments down. It's also the first plane to be flown in the Russian fighter campaigns, so everything is ok, except - flying it. When I practice alone, everything seems fine, and when I fly other planes (Yaks, Spits and some others) in dogfights I can do reasonably well. But in dogfights the I-16 seems to stall all the time, and lose speed at an incredible rate, which again causes it to stall. It's supposed to be a turn fighter, which is ok as I can handle that better than vertical maneuvres, but at the end of a turn it has lost so much speed that I usually just go down like a (spinning) rock. Because of its slow speed I really need those tight turns, but I seem to be doing something wrong. Any tips on how to fly it more efficiently would be appreciated.

And while I'm asking, I was also wondering about the optimal setting for CSP (and variable pitch props for that matter) in vertical maneuvers. All the guides I've read deal with dives, but I haven't been able to find good tips on settings for vertical climbs. I assume full throttle and rpm for CSP (and full throttle and 100% pitch for VPP)?

Thanks in advance.

03-14-2004, 08:50 PM
Yes the I-16 is a classic angles fighter, but that does not make you immune from E-bleed. Even turn fighters benefit from speed.

Remember, your best sustained turn rate in clean configuration is 275 kmh.

Don't turn tighter than your sustainable rate unless you're willing to pay via energy loss. If you're commited and riding the hairy edge of a stall, don't apply any roll inputs without first easing up a bit.

Your angular rate is worse than a Bf 109F-4 above 310 kmh. If a fast 109 blows through the merge, don't make a maximum rate turn against him unless your speed is well under 300. If you are slow, go ahead and consider a hard early turn. He'll come around faster, but your smaller radius will set you up for a nice snap shot.

More conservatively, let a fast 109 blow through and while he's extending, you can climb and/or extend yourself as well. After the first couple hundred degrees you can come out on top if the 109 pilot doesn't manage his energy smartly.

LEXX_Luthor
03-15-2004, 01:51 AM
I~16 is the classic Energy and BnZ speed fighter. Go up against CR.42 and Gladiator, or I~153 for that matter, and you see what it was designed for.

Try landing the IL~2, its one of the easiest next to TB~3, which lands itself. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

This may help some...
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=856109562

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Tully__
03-15-2004, 02:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hrvojej:
And while I'm asking, I was also wondering about the optimal setting for CSP (and variable pitch props for that matter) in vertical maneuvers. All the guides I've read deal with dives, but I haven't been able to find good tips on settings for vertical climbs. I assume full throttle and rpm for CSP (and full throttle and 100% pitch for VPP)?

Thanks in advance.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For prop pitch, whether it's a variable pitch or constant speed prop you want to be setting for max contiuous power rpm in a climb (or if you're desperate for quick altitude and wont be climbing too long, maybe combat power). The only difference between the two is that the CSP will be set and forget, but with the variable pitch prop you have to constantly monitor and adjust during changes in speed and engine power as altitude, throttle and aircraft attitude change.

Edit: I should add that in most planes there's little or no difference between max continous and emergency power rpm settings, it's all in the manifold. For full realism you should be setting lower rpm for cruise though.

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Salut
Tully

[This message was edited by Tully__ on Mon March 15 2004 at 02:50 AM.]

Stalker58
03-15-2004, 06:43 AM
And don't forget to retract your gear, too often I see I16 merilly flying with its gear down http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

hrvojej
03-15-2004, 02:23 PM
Thanks for the tips. I guess I was just too eager to turn in the heat of the combat while being used to more manageable machines. I've since discovered a whole new vista by figuring out that I can actually choose which plane to fly in dynamic campaigns, so I'm back at practicing on Yaks. Much more easy to handle for me, and I can even land them in 3/4 of the cases. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cosmokart:

Remember, your best sustained turn rate in clean configuration is 275 kmh.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do I know that? I haven't noticed it in any of the manuals??

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
I~16 is the classic Energy and BnZ speed fighter. Go up against CR.42 and Gladiator, or I~153 for that matter, and you see what it was designed for.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I was going against Bf-109s, unfortunatelly. As a sidenote, BnZ means going up and down behind the enemy and firing when you're high or low, right? I'm not all that well versed with the terminology yet.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
This may help some...
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=856109562
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, it did help! It happened to me several times, and now I know how to avoid it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:

For prop pitch, whether it's a variable pitch or constant speed prop you want to be setting for max contiuous power rpm in a climb (or if you're desperate for quick altitude and wont be climbing too long, maybe combat power). The only difference between the two is that the CSP will be set and forget, but with the variable pitch prop you have to constantly monitor and adjust during changes in speed and engine power as altitude, throttle and aircraft attitude change.

Edit: I should add that in most planes there's little or no difference between max continous and emergency power rpm settings, it's all in the manifold. For full realism you should be setting lower rpm for cruise though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, if I do a loop or an Immelman, for example, while I'm going up all I should do is try to keep the rpm at max allowed in both CSP and VPP?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stalker58:
And don't forget to retract your gear, too often I see I16 merilly flying with its gear down http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, found that out the hard way... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cheers,

xanty
03-16-2004, 03:34 AM
Hi all:

I fear the I-16 has been way toned down. It was very tough and fast before 1.2, but now it is way too down. IT has become slower, harder to fly, stalls often and the damage has been set weaker than the I-153...which is quite wrong. Also, the "nose-down" attitude is quite prominet, and only at 90% it manages to fly straight.

Yes, I do know the I-16 was too good before, but now it has been too degraded.

And yes, when it first appeared back in '36, it was a great climber and perfect for Z&B againts Cr.32 and other slow turners. Against the Bf109 B/C/D and others, it became a T&B...logical eh http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

In all respects, the plane should be adjusted a bit more. Of course, the cannon-armed Type24 is deadly, but just because of the dual cannons...

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michapma
03-16-2004, 03:58 AM
hrvojej,

There is a training track for takeoff and landing in the Ishak on this page:

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/training.htm

It is a great little fighter. I've flown something like 40 missions in a campaign in it, and quite a bit in online wars too, although most that was before patch 1.2. She still has plenty of bite with the cannons.

If you are having trouble stalling, it is likely that you are pulling back too hard on the stick. Stall occurs at a certain angle of attack, which can occur at both high and low airspeeds. If you're interested in reading more you can download the user's guide in my sig.

The best speed for maximum sustained turn rate is for most of these WWII aircraft typically between 260-330kph. I often take 300kph as a rule of thumb. There are of course reasons behind this, and they're somewhat involved. However, do keep in mind that endlessly turning as fast as you can is not usually the best way to fight. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

C!

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hrvojej
03-17-2004, 01:35 AM
Sorry, I haven't noticed further replies to this thread up to now.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by michapma:
If you are having trouble stalling, it is likely that you are pulling back too hard on the stick. Stall occurs at a certain angle of attack, which can occur at both high and low airspeeds. If you're interested in reading more you can download the user's guide in my sig.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have already read and downloaded your excellent guide (and other guides on your site), and I thank you for providing it. It just seemed as if I'm having way more problems with not stalling the I-16 than any other plane I've flown previously, so I was wondering why is that the case.

Cheers,

LEXX_Luthor
03-17-2004, 06:01 AM
Check joystick settings

michapma
03-17-2004, 06:23 AM
I still think it is from pulling on the stick excessively. As I recall, some of the revision to the I-16 flight model results in it being a bit touchier, having more tendency to snap stall. The Ishak is often used at lower altitudes, so if you don't recover or a flat spin results, it's even worse news than a normal stall. Fly the aircraft without bandits around for a while. Try to learn at what point it wants to stall under various conditions, and try to learn the signs that it's about to stall. See if you can fly in a tight circle in a horizontal plane for 3 or more full turns, at a speed of about 270-300kph. Try vertical maneuvers. Develop a feel for how far, how quickly and how long you can move the stick back. This is exploring the edge of the envelope.

You'll remember from the guide the discussion about angle of attack. At some AoA the airflow over the wing is interrupted and the wings no longer produce lift (or sufficient lift). This is the stall condition. Stalling is a function of AoA. The Ishak is apparently touchier than the other aircraft you've flown. Once you've learned the aircraft's flight envelope though, you won't be stalling. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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