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View Full Version : For anyone who thought peacekeeper wasn't overpowered.....



GeneralB4tman
03-28-2017, 11:34 PM
I present you this proof

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-03-28-for-honor-tournament-organisers-ban-the-games-most-overpowered-hero

CandleInTheDark
03-28-2017, 11:40 PM
I've never had a problem beating peacekeepers but then I spent a good few hours with her and know a, where the likely attacks are coming from and b, dodging back from spam is a good idea.You will not win if you stay in her range and given she is a close quarters combat specialist and that she doesn't have chance unless she gets into that range, that is as it should be. The spam needs to be nerfed and glitches like the indicator glitch need to be dealt with but if you have a longer jab than your opponent and they are faster on the inside you can't complain if you get knocked out for staying on the inside.

Edited to add not a peacekeeper main. She may have my one rep point until I have tried other heroes out but I have over 30 levels since I last seriously used her.

Felis_Menari
03-28-2017, 11:44 PM
I think the PK's second light needs to be equalized with the first, at the very least, and it's pretty clear something needs to be done about her ZA spam during revenge.

CandleInTheDark
03-28-2017, 11:47 PM
I think the PK's second light needs to be equalized with the first, at the very least, and it's pretty clear something needs to be done about her ZA spam during revenge.

Yeah I agree there are problems. I stopped using her because when I have speed I like to keep moving so I wasn't using her guardbreak, which meant my game was dodge, deflect or cause a miss, punish, repeat, I felt like it wasn't in my general playstyle to use her properly. At the same time I do think she has too many i-frames, a hair too much distance (should still have more than slower characters but not that much more) and that the spam needs dealing with. Too much distance and the i-frames are the ones they need to be careful balancing, as it is people can't create distance to get back into their range but cut too much and they will find it harder than they should to engage. I would also back less distance going back or to the side than forward, they should be good at engaging but being able to disengage easily as well means they have the best of both worlds. Spam is the most important all in all so that blocks and guardbreaks have a chance.

Felis_Menari
03-28-2017, 11:58 PM
Are you kidding me? With peacekeeper you are having the hardest time ever against any experienced player. Warden can dodge and counter those attacks EASILY.
And since 1.0.3 you have ZERO chance against Valkyrie.

At times it feels like I can't stop a Valk's lights if I don't block the first as a LB. And with the knockdown spam potential (I've tried dodging after an initial knockdown; has yet to work for me), she seems just as fearsome, if not more so, than a PK.

cragar212
03-29-2017, 12:14 AM
Yall are just doing it wrong! Play raider vs PK the balance dev said so.

(best FH vid ever)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MssBj_niHHY

Tyler-Durdin
03-29-2017, 12:27 AM
Really all these complaints about Overpowered this and that shows many lack practice against certain characters spend some time practicing and honing your skills against lvl3 bots.

Epoqx
03-29-2017, 12:32 AM
Really all these complaints about Overpowered this and that shows many lack practice against certain characters spend some time practicing and honing your skills against lvl3 bots.

Lvl 3 PK dosn't play the same as a good light spamming one.

Tyler-Durdin
03-29-2017, 12:36 AM
Post wasn't directed at any 1 person in particular.
I was simply providing a solution to all who stuggle against certain characters.
I too struggle against some and still do.
When I start playing for the day I load up a practice match Vs lvl 3 bots and and refine my technique until I'm convinced I stand a fair chance facing them in combat.

Tyler-Durdin
03-29-2017, 12:37 AM
Spamming is a player issue and not a character one but I will tell you that a purely reactive enemy will own you harder than a spamming one any time.

Merlox123
03-29-2017, 12:49 AM
A simple fix to the zone attack would fix alot. It's instant, it covers all side dodges (As it should) but it also chases down some one during the back dodge. But I'm happy that the MLG is banning PK, it'll hopefully show the devs that PK is pretty dumb at high level play.

Gray360UK
03-29-2017, 12:55 AM
Yall are just doing it wrong! Play raider vs PK the balance dev said so.

(best FH vid ever)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MssBj_niHHY

lmao, I don't care whether it's true or not, that video was epic ;)

Gray360UK
03-29-2017, 12:56 AM
proof

:rolleyes:

Sauronbaine
03-29-2017, 01:41 AM
Everyone knows that peacekeeper is a little ********. Those that stick their heads in the sands are most likely really bad at the game and dont actualyl fight good peacekeepers.

SendRickPics
03-29-2017, 02:21 AM
Based on the title of the article itself I'd say that the author was hardly unbiased and said article does not constitute as "proof" or "evidence" that the Peacekeeper is overpowered compared to her contemporaries.

SendRickPics
03-29-2017, 02:24 AM
I think the PK's second light needs to be equalized with the first, at the very least, and it's pretty clear something needs to be done about her ZA spam during revenge.

Simple to deal with, Block right, hell you can even parry it. I do so regularly.

The Zone Attack ALWAYS comes from the right. Even if there's a false indicator glitch, the animations don't lie and if you get hit once, you can still readjust so that you don't take follow up zone attacks.

Natedog858585
03-29-2017, 02:55 AM
considering majority of her attacks are faster than block changes and that she can cancel mid attack, no she honestly isnt. with revenge shes impossible to kill with ZA mixups and little penalty of an attack who you have to predict the direction to parry. Theres videos of PK mains that are beating tourney mains easily with PK with her stupid fast attack. Warlord/conch also need a nerf but PK is on the same level of warlord on broken/unpredictable moves.

Mia.Nora
03-29-2017, 03:56 AM
I think the problem here is that, if they nerf PK light attack speed she will be complete trash.

What tool does she have to open up an opponent apart from switching stance quickly and mixing ZA ? Answer is only GB, and we all know how well that works unless it comes after parry.
And that is after she manages to get in close. Her only going in tool is her lunge attack which always result with a parry, therefore useless.

I agree spam is OP, but it is pretty much all she has. Like conqueror she is hard to nerf without complete rework, since the moment you take away the thing makes her OP she becomes complete trash.

TCTF_SWAT
03-29-2017, 04:06 AM
Assassins are already the weakest class. They have no means of opening someone up other then their speed (well in PK's and somewhat of zerk's case). Do you know how hard it is to open up a conq that sits in full block stance with an assassin? A conq can just sit there in the stance and tech any GB that comes their way and what's the assassin to do? Especially if the conq has the heal on block feat.

The conq might not kill the assassin, but they don't have too (at least not in duels).

Ever fought a fulll team of assassins as a conq? You'd be laughing. You'd be virtually invincible against them.

Felis_Menari
03-29-2017, 04:43 AM
Assassins are already the weakest class. They have no means of opening someone up other then their speed (well in PK's and somewhat of zerk's case). Do you know how hard it is to open up a conq that sits in full block stance with an assassin? A conq can just sit there in the stance and tech any GB that comes their way and what's the assassin to do? Especially if the conq has the heal on block feat.

The conq might not kill the assassin, but they don't have too (at least not in duels).

Ever fought a fulll team of assassins as a conq? You'd be laughing. You'd be virtually invincible against them.

That simply means that whatever nerf the PK receives needs to be thought out. Dunno what to do about the ZA, aside from increasing the recovery after a ZA cancel. And as I said before, her second light needs to be brought in line with the first.

Sauronbaine
03-29-2017, 05:03 AM
I think the problem here is that, if they nerf PK light attack speed she will be complete trash.

What tool does she have to open up an opponent apart from switching stance quickly and mixing ZA ? Answer is only GB, and we all know how well that works unless it comes after parry.
And that is after she manages to get in close. Her only going in tool is her lunge attack which always result with a parry, therefore useless.

I agree spam is OP, but it is pretty much all she has. Like conqueror she is hard to nerf without complete rework, since the moment you take away the thing makes her OP she becomes complete trash.

I disagree with the conq. Conq's attacks are not overpowered. infact they are pretty much the worst in the game.

HOWEVER, it's his shield bash that needs to be nerfed and I agree with that.

It's easy to fix the conq. Buff heavy attacks so he cant feint, lower stamina costs on his heavys, increase their speed when fully charged((I think this will be a good change)). Many things they can do

Peacekeeper is on a much different level. What can they do? She already hits extremely harder((As a video has shown)), she's the fastest in the game, you can't punish her as her back dash is the best in the game. She needs to be removed from the game in all honesty. She was a stupid design to begin with.

In a fightin game, like mortal kombat or street figther, they give one character super speed, high damage, and really great dodges? The hell is that about. I think if they remove one of her two weapons and just give her a dagger she might be better as she can't just randomly switch her attacks on a dime like she can.


But again, I don't know what they can do, but htere needs to be something done. She's frustrating everyone and it shows with these tourneys banning her.

Egotistic_Ez
03-29-2017, 05:57 AM
PK LA spam is as fast or faster than guardswitching on many heroes. That's just broken. Hell, it's faster than a berserker's deflect mechanic, something that really shouldn't be possible. It needs a speed nerf to adjust that OR, and this is the better solution imo, FIX GUARDSWITCHING SO IT'S ACTUALLY RESPONSIVE. If you have the option to actually block it then she still has her speed, but she also needs to mind game like other characters at higher levels.


I think the problem here is that, if they nerf PK light attack speed she will be complete trash.

Let's assume that's true, I don't agree, but like i said, let's assume it's true and she's trash post-nerf. I would rather have one character be underpowered and inconvenience a few LEGITIMATE PK mains (most pk mains are just bads looking for easy wins) than continue to subject half the player base (the enemy team) to cheese and a generally unenjoyable play experience.

Mia.Nora
03-29-2017, 06:03 AM
Peacekeeper is on a much different level. What can they do? She already hits extremely harder((As a video has shown)), she's the fastest in the game, you can't punish her as her back dash is the best in the game. She needs to be removed from the game in all honesty. She was a stupid design to begin with.


Correct me if I am wrong here, but isnt valkyrie and warlord LA is as fast as PK? I think there was 1 (ONE) frame difference only, that is what 1/60 seconds faster??

I think it is one of the city myths where the more it was repeated the more real it became. Her LA is fast, but not faster than other fast LAs in the game.

Sauronbaine
03-29-2017, 06:50 AM
Correct me if I am wrong here, but isnt valkyrie and warlord LA is as fast as PK? I think there was 1 (ONE) frame difference only, that is what 1/60 seconds faster??

I think it is one of the city myths where the more it was repeated the more real it became. Her LA is fast, but not faster than other fast LAs in the game.

Dont know about the exact speed, but I feel PK is a bit faster on her light attacks then the Valk. Never really thought about Warlord but I think his headbutt is as fast as her light attacks xD

but it doesn't help that with two weapons, PK can switch her attacks VERY quickly

Iuslez_
03-29-2017, 08:33 AM
Correct me if I am wrong here, but isnt valkyrie and warlord LA is as fast as PK? I think there was 1 (ONE) frame difference only, that is what 1/60 seconds faster??

I think it is one of the city myths where the more it was repeated the more real it became. Her LA is fast, but not faster than other fast LAs in the game.

I believe they are. But warlord can't spam them (only 1 at a time), so it is less of a problem. I also believe that only his side lights are that fast, not the top one (one less direction to defend, makes a huge difference). I don't know the valkyrie enough to make a statement on her, but she is also destroying me with her lights ;) One thing for sure: she can't mix those lights with a fast zone Attack.

IMO there is the whole problem: the zone Attack. Even if you try to get good at defending the light attacks of a PK, she'll just have to mix it up with the zone and it false indicator to make sure you cannot block his attacks. Most zones are a "high risk - high reward" kind of Attack, except for the PK that takes absolutely zero risks when using it.

Make the zone punishable (gb if blocked, like the warden's zone) and make the back dash cover less distance than the other directions. The PK wouldn't be as OP as he is now, and that might even be enough of a change to make him balanced

Mia.Nora
03-29-2017, 12:43 PM
I believe they are. But warlord can't spam them (only 1 at a time), so it is less of a problem. I also believe that only his side lights are that fast, not the top one (one less direction to defend, makes a huge difference). I don't know the valkyrie enough to make a statement on her, but she is also destroying me with her lights ;) One thing for sure: she can't mix those lights with a fast zone Attack.

IMO there is the whole problem: the zone Attack. Even if you try to get good at defending the light attacks of a PK, she'll just have to mix it up with the zone and it false indicator to make sure you cannot block his attacks. Most zones are a "high risk - high reward" kind of Attack, except for the PK that takes absolutely zero risks when using it.

Make the zone punishable (gb if blocked, like the warden's zone) and make the back dash cover less distance than the other directions. The PK wouldn't be as OP as he is now, and that might even be enough of a change to make him balanced

I fail to see the logic here. Whole complain is about her LA speed, I point out that her LA is not significantly faster than other champs *who has utility skills on top of that*; where all PK has is just high speed attacks and dodge.

Then you say nerfing her attack speed and dodge would balance her. Your balanced PK is beyond trash. I understand some of the frustration, but just because she is strong in current mechanics (some champs changing guard stance slow) does not mean her *fixed* state should be complete trash either.

That's why I have been saying, a PK nerf without a complete rework would not work, since fast attacks and dodges is all she has in her kit. Literally no unblockables, shoves, disablers etc. Just fast attacks and dodges and nothing else. If she needs a nerf, this can only happen through a rework that gives her new tools, not by nerfing her all useful part then leaving her as is and making her bottom tier champ.

Similar one is conqueror; his Shield Bash spam is horrible. But take that away and there is no conqueror left. He also needs a rework for a nerf.

Iuslez_
03-29-2017, 01:58 PM
I fail to see the logic here. Whole complain is about her LA speed, I point out that her LA is not significantly faster than other champs *who has utility skills on top of that*; where all PK has is just high speed attacks and dodge.
The logic is that PK's light spam is stronger than WL's since she can actually spam them and from all directions. If you want to only focus on speed, I'd now also add that her 2nd light is actually even faster that the first, making it indeed (to my knowledge) the fastest light in the game, especially since the 1st doesn't have to connect (you can whiff it and only start attacking with the faster 2nd light)

If you want to speak about the balance of the whole character and not only about the light attacks, we can, but that's another topic. I consider that WL also has to be toned down actually.


Then you say nerfing her attack speed and dodge would balance her. Your balanced PK is beyond trash. I understand some of the frustration, but just because she is strong in current mechanics (some champs changing guard stance slow) does not mean her *fixed* state should be complete trash either.

Wait, WHAT??!! Read again please. I never stated that her Attack speed should be nerfed. I said the zone should be punishable, and my suggestion was to have a free gb after a blocked zone (just like it works for the warden right now).

And I specifically said that only the BACK dash should be nerfed. A tryhard PK is unpunishable when out of stamina right now, because she can simply dash backwards faster than other characters walk/dodge or even run to her. Just take a look at the last tournament finals (SyhperPK vs Stonehead) : the PK would throw attacks untill OOS and then back-dash around trees until she had her stamina back. That is a plain stupid mechanic. Maybe if that's Something she needs for offense make it so that the distance is only reduced when OOS. But no character should be able to completely avoid the punishment that comes with depleting your stamina bar.