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Sanctus_9
03-28-2017, 10:52 PM
I've seen a lot of players saying this as well as a lot of articles floating around online. As for the articles and blog posts, these people never seemed to actually play the game. When it comes to players, it seems like just an excuse.

1. The only thing you can pay money for is steel. I've seen posts saying that in order to buy everything in the game you would need something like a million steel, which would require a huge amount of gameplay or a lot of money. But all this includes are emotes, accessories, outfits, and otherwise useless cosmetics that serve no gameplay purpose. These SHOULD be expensive, because they make your character more unique. If everyone ran around with them, nobody would want them.

2. Nobody wants ALL the accessories for EVERY hero anyway because most people only play a handful of heroes, and there's no point in unlocking multiple things that cancel eachother out (ie buying more than one outfit).

3. In order to get better gear, which is the only purchaseable thing that actually affects gameplay, your only option is to play a lot of games. You get better gear with better reputation, which cannot be bought.

4. The amount of steel needed to upgrade gear is marginal. If you played enough to get to a reputation that will get you legendary gear, you will certainly have enough steel to pay to upgrade it.

5. You can boost your steel and experience accumulation with steel itself - ingame currency.

In conclusion, this is not a pay to win game. It really doesn't even encourage you to use real money at all except for useless nick nacks. There's an argument to be made for why a full priced game requires such a grind and accepts real money at all, but that's a different story. Compared to other full priced games, there really isn't much to see here in terms of being a "cash grab".

Gray360UK
03-28-2017, 10:54 PM
Because lazy / greedy / whiny*

*delete as applicable

psyminion
03-28-2017, 10:58 PM
because everything today is sensationalized to the nth degree and people want everything now.

CandleInTheDark
03-28-2017, 11:06 PM
Because damnit they want every single outfit and ornament for the nobushi despite the fact that they will never actually use 90% of them and don't see why they shouldn't have it because they paid money to play dressup crack skulls, they also want this for the lawbringer despite the fact that they will never play him. I will only be buying outfits once I have the executions I want, I will only be doing that after I have used the steel I have earned for gear upgrades.

massive02
03-28-2017, 11:08 PM
because those ornament gives you an aerodynamics speed advantage allowing you to cut through the air faster, while looking too totally awesome, So yeah it's too big of an advantage, needs nerf.

CandleInTheDark
03-28-2017, 11:12 PM
But my ornament is clunky and causes my opponent to spam at me, needs a buff.

Plutonium Bug
03-28-2017, 11:26 PM
Just destroyed a rep 7 108 raider with my lvl 20 7 valk in elim 1v1

ZechsMarquizy
03-28-2017, 11:50 PM
Why you ask? well that is because Ubisoft is a company that has a number 1 goal of making "money" "profits" "revenue", Ubisoft and the For Honor Dev's have ignored the community at every turn and have quite literally ruined all possible chances this game had to make it as an e-sport, it simply will never happen now. Player base went from over 100k on all platforms to way under 20k at least for PC. now on peak hours we are lucky to have around 15k, and over this apst weakend it was under 7k.

At this point it doesn't matter what these idiot dev's say or do, the game is doomed due to lack of communication between them and the community, not to mention the intent to fix the games severe balance issues and connectivity issues... The game is dead on water...

psyminion
03-28-2017, 11:59 PM
lol

this game is no where near dead.

agree to disagree

NeoLocutus
03-29-2017, 12:08 AM
Because people don't read carefully the whole articles :-)

This game may be bug-ridden, broken, unbalanced... whatever you like. But it surely isn't a pay to win game.

ZechsMarquizy
03-29-2017, 12:08 AM
lol

this game is no where near dead.

agree to disagree

what information are you using to back up this statement psyminion? Or are you just making a statement on belief alone? Cause we have lost over 70% of our player base almost immediately after the first patch that buffed PK and Valk when no such buff was needed. So again, what facts are you relying on? Cause my statements have all been made under reason and fact, not belief or bias. For Honor has been dying out for awhile now.

Tyler-Durdin
03-29-2017, 12:16 AM
Dont be to surprised when the game population drops to a level deemed unacceptable they will make it a free to play title, regardless if people bought it at retail release prices or not.
It has happened to games in the past and will happen again and by having microtransactions already implemented in game makes it easier for them to do so.
If this path is taken we will have all paid to win.
Valk needed the buff she was and still is one of the weaker characters this is a FACT provide evidence that backs up your claim she didn't need it and I will stand corrected.

psyminion
03-29-2017, 12:33 AM
what information are you using to back up this statement psyminion? Or are you just making a statement on belief alone? Cause we have lost over 70% of our player base almost immediately after the first patch that buffed PK and Valk when no such buff was needed. So again, what facts are you relying on? Cause my statements have all been made under reason and fact, not belief or bias. For Honor has been dying out for awhile now.

as a console player I have no experience with a shrinking player base, and haven't had a terrible experience with the p2p network.

why is the game's popularity on steam the holy grail of how the game is doing?

solid reviews, solid game, solid sales....

seems alive to me.

Alchemist..
03-29-2017, 01:07 AM
I've seen a lot of players saying this as well as a lot of articles floating around online. As for the articles and blog posts, these people never seemed to actually play the game. When it comes to players, it seems like just an excuse.

1. The only thing you can pay money for is steel. I've seen posts saying that in order to buy everything in the game you would need something like a million steel, which would require a huge amount of gameplay or a lot of money. But all this includes are emotes, accessories, outfits, and otherwise useless cosmetics that serve no gameplay purpose. These SHOULD be expensive, because they make your character more unique. If everyone ran around with them, nobody would want them.

2. Nobody wants ALL the accessories for EVERY hero anyway because most people only play a handful of heroes, and there's no point in unlocking multiple things that cancel eachother out (ie buying more than one outfit).

3. In order to get better gear, which is the only purchaseable thing that actually affects gameplay, your only option is to play a lot of games. You get better gear with better reputation, which cannot be bought.

4. The amount of steel needed to upgrade gear is marginal. If you played enough to get to a reputation that will get you legendary gear, you will certainly have enough steel to pay to upgrade it.

5. You can boost your steel and experience accumulation with steel itself - ingame currency.

In conclusion, this is not a pay to win game. It really doesn't even encourage you to use real money at all except for useless nick nacks. There's an argument to be made for why a full priced game requires such a grind and accepts real money at all, but that's a different story. Compared to other full priced games, there really isn't much to see here in terms of being a "cash grab".

We get nothing from levelling beside color themes and engravings. Yes we need to pay for compleatly everything included color themes in elite and mythic outfits and characters we want to play. Steel is overpriced in game but underpriced in real money. Nex thing is they pushing new stuff weekly so in the end of this season they release tons of cosmetics with high price (last emotes was priced more than 100% than original emotes from release). Even 6 new characters can be priced higher than 12 original chars. Whats the reason to not name it "money grab"?

Gray360UK
03-29-2017, 01:42 AM
We get nothing from levelling beside color themes and engravings

Except

An Ornament for every single character for completing the story mode - FREE
Two emotes for every single character - FREE
Reputation outfits for every single character - FREE
Gear drops - FREE
Colours, Symbols and Engravings - FREE
1000's of Steel from events and for completing the story mode - FREE

Perhaps most importantly, the ability to play the game and every mode in it with absolutely no requirement to spend any real life cash at all.

You can earn about 700 Steel a day from an hours play.
We just had an event that gave 2000 Steel.

I currently have 15,000+ Steel - earned, not bought.

No purchases are required.

Alchemist..
03-29-2017, 03:33 AM
Except

An Ornament for every single character for completing the story mode - FREE


And i must like this one from story mode?



Two emotes for every single character - FREE

yes, its just show how things working, and its part of 60-115 euro game same like executions etc...



Reputation outfits for every single character - FREE

its juts composition from colour themes and symbols which you already unlock, thats so big thing for you? you can do them by yourself, and if you see, there is "elite outfits" tab, where is same thing priced from 1.5k-5k so what the point? if u like them u need buy more unique...


Gear drops - FREE

yes they are free, but if you want better gear, you need pay...


Colours, Symbols and Engravings - FREE

yest thats only thing we get free for llv up, beside this engravings on my kensei are useless bc u wont see nothing. http://imgur.com/a/UKVwq thats my cool engraving


1000's of Steel from events and for completing the story mode - FREE

this 1k is nothing, what i buy for it? 2 crates? even champion status its 2k for 3 days...


Perhaps most importantly, the ability to play the game and every mode in it with absolutely no requirement to spend any real life cash at all.

you forgot that we already pay minimum 60 euro for this game...


You can earn about 700 Steel a day from an hours play.
We just had an event that gave 2000 Steel.

thats the point, u can earn 700 in 1h if u 4v4 orders, not if u play what u want. i dont like them, i like 1v1 or 2v2 where i get 24 steel per game... u can count now how long i need to grind to buy 7k execution, or mythic outfit for 15k. and how long i need to work to get real money for them? shoul i grind countless number of hours of un fun gameplay to get 15k outfit, or stay 45 min overtime (if u work for minimum)? its clear sign from ubi, that beter buy steel rather than earn it in game, bc steel is overpriced in game, and whatever u want in game u need buy it for steel, champion status, crates, upgrade gear, change look of gear, outfits colours, ornaments, emotes, executions, but for lvling u gets some meaningless things. All these things should be unlocked with rep, not steel.


I currently have 15,000+ Steel - earned, not bought.

No purchases are required.


an how long u play for it? how many hours u have in your steam/uplay to get it? propably about 30-50, and if u want to spend all your hours are worth 1 outfit and u are broke...

Mia.Nora
03-29-2017, 04:15 AM
It is NOT P2W.

That being said, it is more in line with F2P Microtansactions Business Model, in a game we PAID $60+.

Also the gameplay quality is WAAAAY below F2P title. It is on par with early-access games at best.

Gray360UK
03-29-2017, 04:29 AM
And i must like this one from story mode?


yes, its just show how things working, and its part of 60-115 euro game same like executions etc...


its juts composition from colour themes and symbols which you already unlock, thats so big thing for you? you can do them by yourself, and if you see, there is "elite outfits" tab, where is same thing priced from 1.5k-5k so what the point? if u like them u need buy more unique...

yes they are free, but if you want better gear, you need pay...

yest thats only thing we get free for llv up, beside this engravings on my kensei are useless bc u wont see nothing. http://imgur.com/a/UKVwq thats my cool engraving

this 1k is nothing, what i buy for it? 2 crates? even champion status its 2k for 3 days...

you forgot that we already pay minimum 60 euro for this game...

thats the point, u can earn 700 in 1h if u 4v4 orders, not if u play what u want. i dont like them, i like 1v1 or 2v2 where i get 24 steel per game... u can count now how long i need to grind to buy 7k execution, or mythic outfit for 15k. and how long i need to work to get real money for them? shoul i grind countless number of hours of un fun gameplay to get 15k outfit, or stay 45 min overtime (if u work for minimum)? its clear sign from ubi, that beter buy steel rather than earn it in game, bc steel is overpriced in game, and whatever u want in game u need buy it for steel, champion status, crates, upgrade gear, change look of gear, outfits colours, ornaments, emotes, executions, but for lvling u gets some meaningless things. All these things should be unlocked with rep, not steel.


an how long u play for it? how many hours u have in your steam/uplay to get it? propably about 30-50, and if u want to spend all your hours are worth 1 outfit and u are broke...

What a colossal wall of whine. You either lied about, misunderstood, misrepresented or dodged everything I said.

It's thousands from the Story, not one thousand. Thousands (plural). Thousands from events.
Story mode and the recent Brawl event and you already have 7000 Steel from those two things alone.
But boohoo how will you ever afford a 7k emote without working two jobs in real life?
Stop being a baby.

You don't need to pay for gear at all, rubbish, not even going to argue there. Especially with a person who likes DUEL and BRAWL most where GEAR IS NOT EVEN ENABLED :rolleyes:

Most telling line in everything you wrote "u can earn 700 in 1h if u 4v4 orders, not if u play what u want. i dont like them"
Why don't we give Steel to people who don't even own the game?
It's not like you should have to play it to earn some is it, that would be crazy, right? :rolleyes:

Still, you want Mythic outfits so badly and make out they are the most important feature of the game?
What, did you never get to play dress up with your sisters dollys when you were little or something?
It's a fighting game not a fashion game.

Utterly pathetic, you prove every point made about the lazy greedy people who whine about 'having' to pay for things.
Not prepared to put any effort in, doesn't like half the game, but wants all the top prestige items for free.
Has to have 12 Ornaments for one head.
Has to have a large number of Executions and Emotes that will never be used because you can equip just two.
Acts as if Ubisoft is the devil disguised as a games company because these things take a bit of effort.
Man up and stop being a baby that wants everything handed to him on a plate for no work.

Egotistic_Ez
03-29-2017, 06:08 AM
It's not pay to win at all, but it IS a cash grab. Ubi have left this game to rot, riddled with bugs and issues they're content with the initial sales and no longer give a ****.


as a console player I have no experience with a shrinking player base, and haven't had a terrible experience with the p2p network.

why is the game's popularity on steam the holy grail of how the game is doing?

solid reviews, solid game, solid sales....

seems alive to me.

As a console player I can tell you the player base is shrinking. Not only do I see the same couple dozen faces over and over these days, but you can also look at the order event targets. There's a reason they keep getting smaller and smaller. And before you say something like "oh but they aren't based on population!" you only have to look at the ps4 and pc targets for the last brawl. 400k vs 800k? Pretty self explanatory.

And reviews from people who played a few hours and initial sales mean absolutely nothing in terms of current player base, lol.

Viruletic
03-29-2017, 08:29 AM
Once you hit rep 3, you technically can pay to win, and get there pretty fast with champion status.

Though it's still a grind to get there in the first place regardless. And the only 108 ive seen below rep 5 was absolute trash.

Alchemist..
03-29-2017, 11:37 AM
What a colossal wall of whine. You either lied about, misunderstood, misrepresented or dodged everything I said.

It's thousands from the Story, not one thousand. Thousands (plural). Thousands from events.
Story mode and the recent Brawl event and you already have 7000 Steel from those two things alone.
But boohoo how will you ever afford a 7k emote without working two jobs in real life?
Stop being a baby.

You don't need to pay for gear at all, rubbish, not even going to argue there. Especially with a person who likes DUEL and BRAWL most where GEAR IS NOT EVEN ENABLED :rolleyes:

Most telling line in everything you wrote "u can earn 700 in 1h if u 4v4 orders, not if u play what u want. i dont like them"
Why don't we give Steel to people who don't even own the game?
It's not like you should have to play it to earn some is it, that would be crazy, right? :rolleyes:

Still, you want Mythic outfits so badly and make out they are the most important feature of the game?
What, did you never get to play dress up with your sisters dollys when you were little or something?
It's a fighting game not a fashion game.

Utterly pathetic, you prove every point made about the lazy greedy people who whine about 'having' to pay for things.
Not prepared to put any effort in, doesn't like half the game, but wants all the top prestige items for free.
Has to have 12 Ornaments for one head.
Has to have a large number of Executions and Emotes that will never be used because you can equip just two.
Acts as if Ubisoft is the devil disguised as a games company because these things take a bit of effort.
Man up and stop being a baby that wants everything handed to him on a plate for no work.

i do nt whine, i just point u out why i think its money grab game, and u need to attacke trying to defend your stupid theory. if u not using cosmetics in game, thats mean nobody can, and everyone who doing that is bad bc
It's a fighting game not a fashion game.


u didnt even try to replay for all things i point u yout and attacke me bc i dont think like u. your only argument its
It's thousands from the Story, not one thousand. Thousands (plural). Thousands from events.
Story mode and the recent Brawl event and you already have 7000. bravo, we have 2 events from release, worth 3k, man im rich now. i also finish 2 chapters from story mode and i never see those
Thousands more like hundreds and some crates. so how many hours in game you have? how long you play your 15k?

FledgeSRondo
03-29-2017, 01:50 PM
I play the game because I love the battle mechanics and strategy, to me all the character customization is an added cosmetic bonus on top of all the fun I already have from playing the core game, it's like I'm being rewarded for having a good time. If you don't enjoy the base gameplay you're not going to have a good time trying to unlock stuff, but then I would wonder why you're even playing the game in the first place.

I also don't understand the "pay-to-win" complaints, the gear system is designed where lower-level gear is basically balanced and higher level gear has higher stats in some areas at the cost of other stats in other areas, I've tried on different higher level gear to test them out and can feel the difference in battle, and have met players who've caught on to and already exploit the "glass cannon" nature of some gear builds (like teammates won't lock onto you to avoid giving you revenge, and when you do get revenge good players regularly guard-break interrupt, parry or simply wait it out, keep their distance or run off). Having higher level gear doesn't necessarily give you an edge if your opponent knows what to look out for, really all gear does is help you to play the way you personally like. For me personally I don't like running slow on the map, so I upped my sprint speed even though I get very little execution health regeneration for it (meaning I'm more vulnerable after a fight, or if I'm being dogpiled I'm likely to get severely punished). If some players want to skip the "grind" by buying steel for gear scavenging then that's perfectly fine, it's their money and any shortcut "advantage" they get comes with disadvantages too, the game itself even says it in one of the tips.

ATM I've been playing the heck out of my Warden with over 140 hours logged already and I'm still learning new (sometimes hilarious) things every day, and eventually I'll try out a few more classes as well, so the game seems like it's gonna last a good long while, I honestly feel like I've gotten more than my money's worth already. Of course I still hope Ubisoft can work out some of the connection issues, but the game is still a blast and I'm excited that there's still more content to come.

Gray360UK
03-29-2017, 02:09 PM
If you don't enjoy the base gameplay you're not going to have a good time trying to unlock stuff, but then I would wonder why you're even playing the game in the first place.

Thank you! Someone with common sense.

The one thing that drives me mad on these forums are all these people who want want want everything but don't even appear to like the game. I'm honestly baffled how someone can happily declare that they don't like 75% of the game but want every single cosmetic / prestige item. Concepts like prestige and work / reward seem totally lost on them. They want it now, and they want it with no effort.

On the surface it's just sheer laziness and greed but they have this mentality that I cannot get my head around, that they are not lazy or greedy, they are just entitled to everything now because they want it. Sad thing is, we all know most superficial people like this will get bored once they have all the shinies and immediately stop playing to go collect all the shinies in some other game. If we changed the entire system so that they could have everything much faster / cheaper, they would only quit playing all the sooner.

I must have read the manual wrong or something, I swear this was supposed to be a melee combat fighting game not Hat Collector 2017
/shrug

igrocki
03-29-2017, 02:43 PM
I'Why is everyone saying this game is pay to win or a cash grab? .
because the are ******ed crying babys

RatedChaotic
03-29-2017, 03:41 PM
Farmed for a few days for my last purple. It never dropped. I bought some steel with real money bought a few crates and I got it. Ya I didnt pay to win that gear since some modes dont use gear stats. And the revenge mode stat will not help me at all.

I understand people will say....ya but you got to play to rep 3 for the best gear. Thats true to a point. But any player at any level can use real money to gain an advantage over a player at the same level that doesnt spend money. If you believe gear really doesnt matter. If your a 108 take it all off and play some 4v4s I'm sure you'll notice a difference. If I can buy my gear upgrades with real money over farming it. Its pay to win for me. May not be to others. But for me it is. It doesnt necessarily have to help me win matches.

Tho I think ubi did it in a way thats not as bad as most pay to win games are.

OneTrueAlca
03-29-2017, 04:03 PM
Because those ***s just want everything for free without grinding for it.

I've had 3 chars with 108 gear already and im working on my Shugoki. which can be done in 1 week

GreenRanger XI
03-29-2017, 05:06 PM
Probably because of how expensive the game was and the fact they won't add servers. Ubisoft fools everyone with every ****ty game they produce.

psyminion
03-29-2017, 05:40 PM
speaking of collecting hats...

I'd like a gallery of all the hats I've taken from my fallen opponents. like a hat trophy room.
every time I decapitate people I'd like to have a copy of their hat to look at.

you know, because I purchased the game.

Gray360UK
03-29-2017, 05:44 PM
speaking of collecting hats...

I'd like a gallery of all the hats I've taken from my fallen opponents. like a hat trophy room.
every time I decapitate people I'd like to have a copy of their hat to look at.

you know, because I purchased the game.

Haha, good idea, I hope a mod moves this to Suggestions and Feedback ;)

Pope138
03-29-2017, 05:53 PM
Well, let's not forget the people that live for 100%-ing every game they get. It's sad (for those players) but I think those days are ending. So I can see why they'd be a little upset.
I think the microtransactions in this game are done well. They don't give you an edge over other players, they're more of a shortcut for people with less time than money.

HOWEVER...

Full $60 price tag, pricey season pass, and microtransactions? Then your game better have dedicated servers.

Gray360UK
03-29-2017, 05:59 PM
Well, let's not forget the people that live for 100%-ing every game they get. It's sad (for those players) but I think those days are ending. So I can see why they'd be a little upset.
I think the microtransactions in this game are done well. They don't give you an edge over other players, they're more of a shortcut for people with less time than money.

HOWEVER...

Full $60 price tag, pricey season pass, and microtransactions? Then your game better have dedicated servers.

I think there are games you can do that in, and games you can't, and knowing the difference is very important.

Good luck 100%-ing World of Warcraft, Destiny, Grand Theft Auto V etc

Assassins Creed Black Flag, Tomb Raider, The Witcher 3, sure.

In my experience most online PvP games with a persistant universe with levels / gear / progression and cosmetics can very rarely be 100%-ed

I get your other points and they put it into perspective somewhat, but honestly expecting to easily 100% FH is just user error.

Kaeldian
03-29-2017, 06:08 PM
You can use the steel to upgrade your gear. Even if you didn't play the exploitative (and if you don't think that gambling your steel for better gear isn't exploitive, you're just ignorant of how such systems work, I'm sorry) crate system for outright better gear, you can use it to get the salvage to upgrade your gear along with all the steel you bought.

The gear gives you a statistical advantage in two of 3 stats. This makes you "Better" than your ungeared opponant. Yes, it's true you can still beat people in better gear - nobody can deny that - you can still potentially pay to have an advantage over the person next to you with the only effort being a few clicks of your mouse button and opening your wallet. This is the very DEFINITION of pay to win.

This system was specifically designed to exploit the impatient whales who make up the bulk of the cash shop purchases. Personally, I don't give a **** if somebody wants to spend steel on cosmetics. If they got the disposable income to buy the steel to do so - more power to them. In fact, I will thank them for supporting the game I enjoy. But when that money is used to buy an advantage over me statistically? I have to call it out for what it is - exploitative pay to win ********.

If the gear was just cosmetic - I really wouldn't care. Again, I'd probably thank those who supported the game with so much money.

I'll still play the game though - and I'm a fan. But just because I love the game doesn't mean I'm not going to call out Ubisoft on such practices. Look, I get it making games is expensive and I'm sure the CEO really needs that second or 3rd summer mansion. But for ****s sake man, you can make the same type of money of cosmetics and take less of a hit in your PR.

psyminion
03-29-2017, 06:17 PM
maybe I've just been out of the loop with competitive gaming 'standards' or whatever, but as a console peasant I've not noticed any real improvement to my personal experience playing games with dedicated servers (like bf1) over playing games p2p games like GTA Online. I've actually had way more issues and wasted time trying to play bf1 over FH, and I play daily.

I also have a personal (unfounded) belief that the designers and devs are semi-competent and artistic people working in a very corporatist environment, and they tried to frame the pace and style of combat around a corporate network architecture they had no control over (because new IP).

also, I'm not impressed with microtransactions in games at all, because I'm old. that being said FH isn't pay to win and I'm ok with the expensive fancy hats. if you can play you can earn.

my real critique will be when the new characters are drip-fed to us and how much steel they expect me to be ok with paying for a fancy selection of optional ninja hats.