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Porch-Skunk
03-27-2017, 11:23 PM
So as a player who loves warden, I do also see that compared to other classes he needs a change. I say a fair change to lessen the OP would be to make it so you cannot shoulder bash INTO guard break. You should have to feint the SB, then GB, not SB to GB. I think this fix would make it still viable while taking out the unfair advantage of being able to use either on a whim.

Just my two cents though....

UbiJurassic
03-28-2017, 01:32 AM
Thanks for the suggestion jacoblwade127! Any other warden players have thought on this?

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 01:36 AM
So as a player who loves warden, I do also see that compared to other classes he needs a change. I say a fair change to lessen the OP would be to make it so you cannot shoulder bash INTO guard break. You should have to feint the SB, then GB, not SB to GB. I think this fix would make it still viable while taking out the unfair advantage of being able to use either on a whim.

Just my two cents though....

Absolutely not.

My hands are tired from explaining to people that shoulder bash / shoulder bash into guardbreak ....


IS COUNTERABLE BY A SIMPLE LIGHT ATTACK

Only begginers get steamrolled by wardens vortex, anyone who played PVP for a while is immune to it, heck even bots are beggining to figure it out

XImohtephXX
03-28-2017, 01:41 AM
I agree. It is already a very strong move netting a light combo if it hits or an overhead heavy when charged. Leaving the ability to cancel it would still make a safer ability but as it stands when out of stamina there is no more punishing combo. Screwed if you dodge screwed if you dont. It would also in my opinion let the warden shine as an individual character rather then just a combo machine.

secrecy274
03-28-2017, 01:44 AM
Absolutely not.

My hands are tired from explaining to people that shoulder bash / shoulder bash into guardbreak ....


IS COUNTERABLE BY A SIMPLE LIGHT ATTACK

Only begginers get steamrolled by wardens vortex, anyone who played PVP for a while is immune to it, heck even bots are beggining to figure it out

And as I've pointed out to you, some characters doesn't have fast enough light attacks, and a good Warden can cancel into a parry.

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 01:49 AM
And as I've pointed out to you, a good Warden can cancel into a parry.

Actually you've pointed out to me that they "can cancel inot a counter", after which I explained to you sideways light is enough.

I'm having hard time imagining how a warden can cancel from shoulder bash to parry that quickly especially against a light attack.

You would need a coked-up Korean to parry a Valkeries light attack in that situation, and even then it's most likely impossible.

I;m gonna try and suspend my disbelief here, but continue to doubt that there are more than 2 people on the planet who can actually do that, and if htey can - kudos to them, they deserve to win.

Meanwhile getting back to earth, OP doesn't even know he can counter shoulder bash by light attacks, so why not concentrate on that for now?

Netcode_err_404
03-28-2017, 01:51 AM
Absolutely not.

My hands are tired from explaining to people that shoulder bash / shoulder bash into guardbreak ....


IS COUNTERABLE BY A SIMPLE LIGHT ATTACK

Only begginers get steamrolled by wardens vortex, anyone who played PVP for a while is immune to it, heck even bots are beggining to figure it out

Can you explain us why he should be able to cancel the bash into a GB MID animation and getting a free r2 which is 2 bars of damage ?

Can you explain us why on top of that he has a up light parry that deals a lot of damage ?

Can you explain me why he needs yto be superior in every aspect to the others 2 vanguards ?


THE FIX is simple here OP.

Make sure he can cancel its bash only with an heavy attack, so he can double feint it giving you the time to react. Simple.
And of course if ubisoft doesn't want to add cooldown to limit this spam madness, double the stamina consume

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 01:55 AM
Can you explain us why he should be able to cancel the bash into a GB MID animation and getting a free r2 which is 2 bars of damage ?

Can you explain us why on top of that he has a up light parry that deals a lot of damage ?

Can you explain me why he needs yto be superior in every aspect to the others 2 vanguards ?


THE FIX is simple here OP.

Make sure he can cancel its bash only with an heavy attack, so he can double feint it giving you the time to react. Simple.
And of course if ubisoft doesn't want to add cooldown to limit this spam madness, double the stamina consume

Can you explain why the sky is blue and bears sh*t in the wood?

The answer is simple, because he is designed that way.

If you think he's so OP, go and play warden all day long, you'll soon see the error in your ways when you wont be able to land a single shoulder charge.

All characters have strenghts and weaknesses, also talking about vanguards, tournament showed that raiders absolutely shreked wardens, altho those raiders knew how to play, so your mileage may vary

Netcode_err_404
03-28-2017, 02:02 AM
Can you explain why the sky is blue and bears sh*t in the wood?

The answer is simple, because he is designed that way.

If you think he's so OP, go and play warden all day long, you'll soon see the error in your ways when you wont be able to land a single shoulder charge.

All characters have strenghts and weaknesses, also talking about vanguards, tournament showed that raiders absolutely shreked wardens, altho those raiders knew how to play, so your mileage may vary

With your attitude, you would win every tourney even before they start.

I brought facts, you answered with nonsenses. Good luck with your life.

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 02:07 AM
With your attitude, you would win every tourney even before they start.

I brought facts, you answered with nonsenses. Good luck with your life.

You ignored my facts, so I ignored your hyperbole.

Warden's vortex is counterable by light attacks, case closed.


/thread

secrecy274
03-28-2017, 02:10 AM
Actually you've pointed out to me that they "can cancel inot a counter", after which I explained to you sideways light is enough.

I'm having hard time imagining how a warden can cancel from shoulder bash to parry that quickly especially against a light attack.

You would need a coked-up Korean to parry a Valkeries light attack in that situation, and even then it's most likely impossible.

I;m gonna try and suspend my disbelief here, but continue to doubt that there are more than 2 people on the planet who can actually do that, and if htey can - kudos to them, they deserve to win.

Meanwhile getting back to earth, OP doesn't even know he can counter shoulder bash by light attacks, so why not concentrate on that for now?

My bad, should specify.
Only Lawbringer top light stand a (small) chance of stopping the second shoulderbash, a shoulderbash that can be canceled into a top light. Now, tell me what happens when a Warden counters a top light with his own top light?

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 02:14 AM
My bad, should specify.
Only Lawbringer top light stand a (small) chance of stopping the second shoulderbash, a shoulderbash that can be canceled into a top light. Now, tell me what happens when a Warden counters a top light with his own top light?

Actually I faced a LB today as a Conqueror, the dude was spamming grabs like crazy, so I thought I would spam him back with shoulder bash (which is much quicker than Wardens bash mind you), and he punished it every single time with LB top, and as a Warden it would have been even worse, unless you specificaly stand there and charge your shoulder trying to anticipate a top light, but then the oponent can start mixing in grabs and such for further punishes, so Warden absolutely does not get a free iWin button in this exchange, it does become a slight battle of attrition but its not that bad, honestly I found that against wradens I find myself dashing randomly left and right , doing some chip damage and looking for oppenings and then disengaging to a safe distance, there's more than one way to skin a cat, nobody says you just have to stand there like a rock getting bashed and grabbed all the time

Netcode_err_404
03-28-2017, 02:14 AM
You ignored my facts, so I ignored your hyperbole.

Warden's vortex is counterable by light attacks, case closed.


/thread


Except no smart warden will full charge when close to you, and you need to have extreme good reflexes and a fast class, if you miss one of these, and for pure unluck you get near a wall, gg ez wp. because you will lose half Health bar before beeing able to come out of that vortex, and all he needed to do is pressing Rb and X.

Its always fun when people defend their main class to death even if is broken AF. You are not alone tho, pk's users are doing the same, telling to git gud to others.

I already localized your kind, : Join date feb 2017 Posts: 521

Spends more time on forums than game, trying to convince devs to not nerf his ez pz class.

Was a pleasure to know you man. farewell

Same with conqs, pk and warlords.

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 02:18 AM
Except no smart warden will full charge when close to youl

That's even better, because every single light even from the slowest champions has a priority over Wardens shoulder charge and stop the vortex dead in it's tracks


you need to have extreme good reflexes l

Whats that, you need to git gud reflexes ?

Pfffff, screw that, ain't nobody got time to git gut, easier to beg and whine on forums and beg for nerfs


It's always fun when people defend their main class to death even if is broken AF


http://oi67.tinypic.com/2mzfp09.jpg

My main class bro? I got 7 of them, currently maining as Valkyrie.

Altho I did start this game playing as a Warden, but moved away from him long ago, because frankly - hes not that good, and heavily predictable

Netcode_err_404
03-28-2017, 02:20 AM
That's even better, because every single light even from the slowest champions has a priority over Wardens shoulder charge and stop the vortext dead in it's tracks



Whats that, you need to git gud reflexes ?

Pfffff, screw that, ain't nobody got time to git gut, easier to beg and whine for nerfs

1) false LB light side is slower.
2)Do not make yourself more ridicolous. considering you are th first to stay on these forums to beg devs to let wardens untouched.

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 02:24 AM
1) false LB light side is slower.
2)Do not make yourself more ridicolous. considering you are th first to stay on these forums to beg devs to let wardens untouched.

Don't forget to re-read and include the rest of my comment :rolleyes: I couldn't care less for Wardens faith, I have champions way better than them :rolleyes:

Netcode_err_404
03-28-2017, 02:53 AM
Don't forget to re-read and include the rest of my comment :rolleyes: I couldn't care less for Wardens faith, I have champions way better than them :rolleyes:

Oh now i see, when you say its easy to counter a warden, you mean with a conq/warlord. Yes its pretty easy indeed, they are just 2 of the best classes in the game.

I gladly noticed you tried kensei and left him. Too much skilled based for most

At least you are not a 10th prestiged PK claiming pk is fine.

Core mechaincs are broken, and they need a fix asap, soi wont say they are meta classes, but surely whoever has a bash spam, is in an actual tactical advantage till ubsoft fix the game.

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 10:55 AM
Oh now i see, when you say its easy to counter a warden, you mean with a conq/warlord. Yes its pretty easy indeed, they are just 2 of the best classes in the game.

I gladly noticed you tried kensei and left him. Too much skilled based for most

At least you are not a 10th prestiged PK claiming pk is fine.

Core mechaincs are broken, and they need a fix asap, soi wont say they are meta classes, but surely whoever has a bash spam, is in an actual tactical advantage till ubsoft fix the game.

Yeah, because warlord, conqueror and wardens is all the classes I have, yup, none of that nobushi, orochi, shugoki shiet, just the Steam-rollers INC. in my town. *facepalm*.

Actually I had a thread yesterday asking people which class I should chose next, my choice was between Kensei, Valkyrie and PK, and I decided to pick Valkyrie, altho Kensei came close and will probably be my next one after valk.

You would think that if warden was so OP, that would be the only class I would play , however I played him in my first weeks, and then dropped him and moved on to pick a better class, however maining him for a while was beneficial to me because I learned his steanghts and weekneses, and know how to counter him, thus not having to cry on the forums and beg for nerfs just because I don't understand how to play.

I urge you and anyone else to pick up warden for a week or so, to see for yourselves how quickly you'll drop him, he's readily available, you have no excuse, go train and get better instead of moaning

Epoqx
03-28-2017, 12:15 PM
Tournaments show stats, warden is part of these 4 top tier classes. Period. You are just not good enough to actually see it yourself.

Or you just ain't got the feeling for that class, that happened to me to.

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 12:18 PM
Tournaments show stats, warden is part of these 4 top tier classes. Period. You are just not good enough to actually see it.

Or you just ain't got the feeling for that class, that happened to me to.

I watched the last tournament, not a single warden stood a chance against raiders, interestingly enough no one seems to be crying about raiders in the forums , hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Xb1MasterNoctis
03-28-2017, 01:09 PM
Absolutely not.

My hands are tired from explaining to people that shoulder bash / shoulder bash into guardbreak ....


IS COUNTERABLE BY A SIMPLE LIGHT ATTACK

Only begginers get steamrolled by wardens vortex, anyone who played PVP for a while is immune to it, heck even bots are beggining to figure it out

Once you get pushed into a wall or a corners it's impossible to get out i have played the warden done this to a lot of players.

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 02:02 PM
Once you get pushed into a wall or a corners it's impossible to get out i have played the warden done this to a lot of players.

Once you get pushed of a cliff, you can no longer continue the fight at all, whats your point?

People neet to git gut at situational awareness? In that case - I agree

Specialkha
03-28-2017, 04:29 PM
Ah yeah, that tourney where a raider won after using a bug exploit that made his ZA unparryable?

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 04:52 PM
Ah yeah, that tourney where a raider won after using a bug exploit that made his ZA unparryable?

Yes, that one, notice how not a single soul is complaining about that on the forums, yet Warden OP bros

RatedChaotic
03-28-2017, 06:18 PM
MassiveD is correct. Everytime I see the warden glow I light attack. It sure does piss my boy off.

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 06:37 PM
MassiveD is correct. Everytime I see the warden glow I light attack. It sure does piss my boy off.

https://media.giphy.com/media/5xtDarmwsuR9sDRObyU/giphy.gif

Fruttie
03-28-2017, 06:47 PM
So as a player who loves warden, I do also see that compared to other classes he needs a change. I say a fair change to lessen the OP would be to make it so you cannot shoulder bash INTO guard break. You should have to feint the SB, then GB, not SB to GB. I think this fix would make it still viable while taking out the unfair advantage of being able to use either on a whim.

Just my two cents though....

I back this suggestion, Why is the warden able to cancel in a guardbreak but other classes not? An example: conq's shield bash, warlords headbutt, nobushi's kick, lawbringers shove just to name a few.

danny_brasko1
03-28-2017, 06:56 PM
warden deffos needs fixed somehow, either his blocking or his vortex, the guy is nearly impossible to hit

darkspawn2101
03-28-2017, 06:58 PM
Now, I been wanting to reply to this thread for a while.

I been playing some warden, been playing against Warden alot, and I am conflicted.

On the one hand, it's a very strong charge and the wardens stength lies in his many, many options from neutral. Zone, light top into mixup, charge into mixup, charge into guardbreak. No other class has these many options, closest being Orochi, with disadvantages to compensate.

In my honest opinion, the frames for the charge, like all unblockable attacks, need looked at. But more than that, I do think the Guard break out of charge capability needs looked at, the timing needs looked at, and so on.

I'd say it needs tweaked, definately.

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 06:59 PM
I back this suggestion, Why is the warden able to cancel in a guardbreak but other classes not? An example: conq's shield bash, warlords headbutt, nobushi's kick, lawbringers shove just to name a few.

Yet Conqueror is a much stronger champion against Warden barely has any chance, what does that say about Warden then?

Didn't stop to consider, did ya

Specialkha
03-28-2017, 07:03 PM
Yet Conqueror is a much stronger champion against Warden barely has any chance, what does that say about Warden then?

Didn't stop to consider, did ya

So what is your point here? Conq is better than Warden? So is Warlord and maybe PK. Everything else is inferior by a large margin. You have here the 4 class that rules FH currently, and those need to be look at.

danny_brasko1
03-28-2017, 07:04 PM
I think conq is just as bad if not worse, he can basically do everything that the warden can but conq is completely unpunishable, I think that needs to be fixed

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 07:06 PM
PK - OP, Warden - OP, Conqueror - OP, Shugoki - OP, Warlord - OP, Valkyrie - OP, Orochi - OP, Kensei - OP , every character in the game OP OP


See the pattern here? Once you git gut then nothing is OP :rolleyes:

DrExtrem
03-28-2017, 07:07 PM
warden deffos needs fixed somehow, either his blocking or his vortex, the guy is nearly impossible to hit

Every hero with the same blocking speed is "nearly impossible to hit".

The wardens shoulder bash loop is not even the worse.

All loop attacks and spams need fixing. Not only but off course including the wardens ones.

darkspawn2101
03-28-2017, 07:07 PM
Yet Conqueror is a much stronger champion against Warden barely has any chance, what does that say about Warden then?

Didn't stop to consider, did ya

...Not sure what your trying to say here.

If your saying Warden is better against Conq then yes, that's true.

If your saying Conq is better, uh, no. Zone attack, dash into guardbreak, top lights and easy ability to punish with said lights after Conqs charge.

Now look at Raider and Kensei versus Conq. They dont have nearly his ammount of options. And it's currently why Warden is at top tier, and raider is at near botton tier along with Kensei. The problem, is Warden is too unpredictable. So it's either time to bring Raider up and Kensei up, or bring Warden down.

Specialkha
03-28-2017, 07:08 PM
Not rly. Read again What I write: Warlord/Conq/PK/Warden OP, everything else is inferior. But since you suck, you can't realize that. But once you will hit some kind of skill level, you will realize that. or you will watch some tourny and see 2 warlords headbutting each other to death.

danny_brasko1
03-28-2017, 07:10 PM
PK - OP, Warden - OP, Conqueror - OP, Shugoki - OP, Warlord - OP, Valkyrie - OP, Orochi - OP, Kensei - OP , every character in the game OP OP


See the pattern here? Once you git gut then nothing is OP :rolleyes:

I don't think valk is OP she is so punishable and it very easy to beat her, same goes for orochi he is so easy to read to the poont where I don't get why people go him

MassiveD.
03-28-2017, 07:14 PM
I don't think valk is OP she is so punishable and it very easy to beat her, same goes for orochi he is so easy to read to the poont where I don't get why people go him

Orochi is actually ridiculous on high tier play, with amazing feint game and best top light in the game.

But this sort of proves my point, you are fighting characters every day, you lose to wardens you call them OP, if you fought orochis all day and lost to them you would call Orochis OP, meanwhile nothing is , everyone is counterable, and everyone is punishable, Warden is punished by simple light attacks whenever he starts glowing

darkspawn2101
03-28-2017, 07:15 PM
PK - OP, Warden - OP, Conqueror - OP, Shugoki - OP, Warlord - OP, Valkyrie - OP, Orochi - OP, Kensei - OP , every character in the game OP OP


See the pattern here? Once you git gut then nothing is OP :rolleyes:

PK: The lights are too damn fast and cannot be blocked in mid combo. Otherwise, if your good at parrying, you can wreck her.

Conq: Has one chain. Is fairly easy to beat once you git gud at dodging shieldbash.

Shugoki: Once you get through hyperarmor via a trade and can keep the pressure up, he's done. Feints and fake outs and use of dodging.

Warlord: Despite that everyone calls the headbutt OP, a cool head is the best way to **** a warlord. Parry a light or heavy after headbutt spam.

Valk: Incredibly easy to punish. The dodging on the trip is crucial, and once you have that down she becomes easier to beat.

Orochi: Learn to parry top light. Fake out. Done.

Kensei: One of the most ****ing predictable characters in the entire game.


The warden has more options than any of the characters you have listed, and it's those options, and his ability to be unpredictable, that puts him on a higher playing field. Adress the arguements, stop strawmanning because you dont like the discussion.

By the by, the only light I've ever managed to interrupt him with, is a wardens top. Ironically.

Specialkha
03-28-2017, 07:16 PM
Orochi is actually ridiculous on high tier play, with amazing feint game and best top light in the game.

But this sort of proves my point, you are fighting characters every day, you lose to wardens you call them OP, if you fought orochis all day and lost to them you would call Orochis OP, meanwhile nothing is , everyone is counterable, and everyone is punishable, Warden is punished by simple light attacks whenever he starts glowing

Why then Orochi has never won a tourney, but warlord did a lot?

danny_brasko1
03-28-2017, 07:18 PM
Orochi is actually ridiculous on high tier play, with amazing feint game and best top light in the game.

But this sort of proves my point, you are fighting characters every day, you lose to wardens you call them OP, if you fought orochis all day and lost to them you would call Orochis OP, meanwhile nothing is , everyone is counterable, and everyone is punishable, Warden is punished by simple light attacks whenever he starts glowing

I don't have a problem fighting anyone except from conq who is really hard to punish, and it all depends on the player not the character

tammassakini
03-28-2017, 07:35 PM
So as a player who loves warden, I do also see that compared to other classes he needs a change. I say a fair change to lessen the OP would be to make it so you cannot shoulder bash INTO guard break. You should have to feint the SB, then GB, not SB to GB. I think this fix would make it still viable while taking out the unfair advantage of being able to use either on a whim.

Just my two cents though....

This would make the shoulder bash useless like the kick from nobushi and a warden without his shoulder bash is not gonna be played.

xLeapingLizardx
03-28-2017, 07:35 PM
Here's my thing:
I played Warden quite a lot (a lot in the beta as well) He's basically my second main.

So if a Warden does the side lights into shoulder bash, connects, side lights again, shoulder bash, side lights and so on, can you counter that with a light attack during the should bash? If you can that would be good for me to know. If you cant then you are stuck.

Next solution would be to dodge out of the way of the shoulder bash correct? that might work once, but then you get caught by the 2 lights and he charges up for the shoulder charge again you go for the dodge but he cancels into guardbreak, automatically catching you..

Sometimes as my Warden I would just do the following: 2 lights>shoulder charge>2 lights>shoulder charge>2 lights (so at this point they are going to want to dodge)>regular guard break... I don't even have to cancel my shoulder charge and guard break... I just guard break lol.

So what's the next solution? (This is the only one that I use that usually works) Unlock onto the Warden and roll. You cant be guardbroken while rolling and obviously you can't be caught by the shoulder charge.
But of course that is kind of annoying to me since you have to literally roll away and reengage sometimes a lot per fight. That gets pretty annoying if you have to do it that often.

Am I missing something here? I get that you can light attack the warden during shoulder charge up but is that also doable after being hit by the 2 light attacks?

Last thing I have to say that makes the warden a bit difficult to fight. There are 2 different directions that he can attack quickly from. Most characters have a direction you can keep your block to lock out a good bit of their kit. Warden has the quick zone attack as well as the quick top light, so I never know which way I should keep my block, so that's also annoying lol.

So I've basically stopped using the Warden because he feels too easy. Currently maining the lawbringer which is nice because you have to do a lot of skill play with him.

Fruttie
03-28-2017, 08:16 PM
Yet Conqueror is a much stronger champion against Warden barely has any chance, what does that say about Warden then?

Didn't stop to consider, did ya

I didn't imply that the conqueror is better at all, I only gave examples of other characters that have a similair unblockable (non-damage) attack that pushes/staggers an opponent but they can't cancel those into a guardbreak like the warden can, thats the thing that causes said "vortex" to be possible in the first place.

The reason the conqueror is OP has very little to do with the way his shield bash works compared to the wardens shoulderbash.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
03-28-2017, 08:33 PM
Here is what I experience: I main LB and he has zero options against the vortex. You light attack to interrupt? his lights are too slow to interrupt the attack. You dodge to avoid the attack? He cancels into an nonpunishable GB. The LB shove leads to 0 damage so that's out of the question. How are you supposed to deal damage if that's the only thing he does?.
I don't mind any character having a weaker match up against others, but no one should be helpless in any 1v1 situation.

Fruttie
03-28-2017, 08:41 PM
Here is what I experience: I main LB and he has zero options against the vortex. You light attack to interrupt? his lights are too slow to interrupt the attack. You dodge to avoid the attack? He cancels into an nonpunishable GB. The LB shove leads to 0 damage so that's out of the question. How are you supposed to deal damage if that's the only thing he does?.
I don't mind any character having a weaker match up against others, but no one should be helpless in any 1v1 situation.

Unlock the combat and double dodge backwards should work for any character but leaves you on very low stamina or even exhaust you, its only when you are trapped in a corner where the said "vortex" is nearly impossible to get out of.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
03-28-2017, 08:47 PM
Unlock the combat and double dodge backwards should work for any character but leaves you on very low stamina or even exhaust you, its only when you are trapped in a corner where the said "vortex" is nearly impossible to get out of.

I do that, however that begs the question, How are you supposed to damage him?

Fruttie
03-28-2017, 08:49 PM
I do that, however that begs the question, How are you supposed to damage him?

Learn the faintgame & parry. If he tends to go for zone attacks, block & punish with guardbreaks.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
03-28-2017, 08:52 PM
Learn the faintgame & parry. If he tends to go for zone attacks, block & punish with guardbreaks.

But what if he only uses shoulderbash, as most wardens do?

Fruttie
03-28-2017, 08:56 PM
But what if he only uses shoulderbash, as most wardens do?

You can just hit him with a light attack if he tries to shoulderbash without prior attacks.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
03-28-2017, 09:00 PM
You can just hit him with a light attack if he tries to shoulderbash without prior attacks.

The LB attack is too slow even for that, unless you can predict him. You are granted 1 opening, he is granted many more.

DrExtrem
03-28-2017, 09:03 PM
It the shoulder bash can nit be cancelled into a GB anymore, the warden not only loses his edge. It is funny, because the bash can be interrupted, the GB cancelled (bots love to do it) and a dodge works wonders.

In general, all loops and spammable moves need to be taken care off. As well, as the permanent dodging.
I suggest, adding charges for dodging, guard breaking (except counter GB) and the A&X-moves, like the ones in titanfall.

Every dodge, dash and attack that has a dash/sidestep (A-button) and/or GB (X-button) component, uses up a charge. If you spam offensive moves, your defense is weakened. If you dodge too much, you can not use special attacks or GB.

Light spam can be fixed by raising stamina costs fir light attacks outside of combos. Some light attacks need tweaking as well.

If spamming is no longer possible, the shoulder bash (and charge, headbutt etc) loses a lot of his potential to scare the **** out of everyone and that is this moves most dangerous tech.

tammassakini
03-28-2017, 09:08 PM
Here is what I experience: I main LB and he has zero options against the vortex. You light attack to interrupt? his lights are too slow to interrupt the attack. You dodge to avoid the attack? He cancels into an nonpunishable GB. The LB shove leads to 0 damage so that's out of the question. How are you supposed to deal damage if that's the only thing he does?.
I don't mind any character having a weaker match up against others, but no one should be helpless in any 1v1 situation.

You cannot compare the probably weakest Hero to a solid one.
Yes i agree that u have no chance in the match up but u have a disadvantage to most of the other heroes as well.
I think lawbringer should at least get a heavy after his move ,,The long arm". maybe something else too idk

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
03-28-2017, 09:12 PM
You cannot compare the probably weakest Hero to a solid one.
Yes i agree that u have no chance in the match up but u have a disadvantage to most of the other heroes as well.
I think lawbringer should at least get a heavy after his move ,,The long arm". maybe something else too idk

I suppose what you are saying is true, the problem may not be with the Warden, but with the Lawbringer.

SerrowvonHerow
03-28-2017, 09:20 PM
I don't think the fixed proposed in the OP would do anything but annoy people playing with controllers. Kensei can already do this with his zone attack, it functionally wouldn't change a thing at higher levels of play but just annoy people trying to get used to their character's moveset.

As to whether Warden is balanced, I think the data available to us players has been consistent in demonstrating that he is actually rather balanced. In a vast majority of the tournaments, Wardens at the top level have produced very lackluster results, ending as far back as 4th place at best. Of course we're not privy to the actual character winrates, but given the devs' silence on him they're either not sure yet or feel he's probably just in a solid place. There's also the matter that the meta is just now appearing to settle. Indeed, if you keep up with the competitive reddit at all, you'll have noticed the meta has now expanded to include Shoguki in the top character list, even if that's more a result of 2v2s.

To give you an idea of the timeline, the game first comes out, everyone screeches about how Warden is the alpha class and only a fool would dare play anything but this sword-wielding cheesemonger. Some time passes, people realize Conquerors (and Warlords) are actually Warden killers. Suddenly the meta shifts as people realize defense is the way to play. More time passes, Peacekeepers rise to prominence as the only hero that can spam their way through defense. Finally, Shogukis have emerged as a result of the competitive scene taking a more 2v2 focus because of their amazing control and damage. They also have great unlock tech that makes them no slouches in 1v1s either.

Frankly, I think Warden should be the bar around which characters are balanced in the future. He has a versatile toolkit that makes it never feels like you've picked a bad hero for the situation you're in. It might not be optimal - but it's always quite workable. Sometimes when I'm playing Lawbringer or Orochi I just flat out feel like I have horrible matchups that are a major uphill battle for me to fight.

darkspawn2101
03-28-2017, 09:34 PM
I don't think the fixed proposed in the OP would do anything but annoy people playing with controllers. Kensei can already do this with his zone attack, it functionally wouldn't change a thing at higher levels of play but just annoy people trying to get used to their character's moveset.

As to whether Warden is balanced, I think the data available to us players has been consistent in demonstrating that he is actually rather balanced. In a vast majority of the tournaments, Wardens at the top level have produced very lackluster results, ending as far back as 4th place at best. Of course we're not privy to the actual character winrates, but given the devs' silence on him they're either not sure yet or feel he's probably just in a solid place. There's also the matter that the meta is just now appearing to settle. Indeed, if you keep up with the competitive reddit at all, you'll have noticed the meta has now expanded to include Shoguki in the top character list, even if that's more a result of 2v2s.

To give you an idea of the timeline, the game first comes out, everyone screeches about how Warden is the alpha class and only a fool would dare play anything but this sword-wielding cheesemonger. Some time passes, people realize Conquerors (and Warlords) are actually Warden killers. Suddenly the meta shifts as people realize defense is the way to play. More time passes, Peacekeepers rise to prominence as the only hero that can spam their way through defense. Finally, Shogukis have emerged as a result of the competitive scene taking a more 2v2 focus because of their amazing control and damage. They also have great unlock tech that makes them no slouches in 1v1s either.

Frankly, I think Warden should be the bar around which characters are balanced in the future. He has a versatile toolkit that makes it never feels like you've picked a bad hero for the situation you're in. It might not be optimal - but it's always quite workable. Sometimes when I'm playing Lawbringer or Orochi I just flat out feel like I have horrible matchups that are a major uphill battle for me to fight.

Honestly, this.

After spending some time meditating on it, I think he's kinda good the way he is. Thing is, his toolset is very -predictable-, once you know what to look for, a trait all vanguards share. But for the moment, when you try to start shoulderbashing your way through everything, you get ****ed sooner or later.

Fruttie
03-28-2017, 09:39 PM
The LB attack is too slow even for that, unless you can predict him. You are granted 1 opening, he is granted many more.

Top light of the LB is fast enough for it.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
03-28-2017, 09:57 PM
Top light of the LB is fast enough for it.

However, in the time it takes to switch stances, it may already be too late.

lDelicious
03-28-2017, 10:03 PM
So as a player who loves warden, I do also see that compared to other classes he needs a change. I say a fair change to lessen the OP would be to make it so you cannot shoulder bash INTO guard break. You should have to feint the SB, then GB, not SB to GB. I think this fix would make it still viable while taking out the unfair advantage of being able to use either on a whim.

Just my two cents though....

This is the only change the Warden needs to be balanced, good post!

UbiJurassic
03-29-2017, 01:21 AM
Thanks for the feedback so far on the Warden everyone! I'm making a note of it and forwarding it to the team. :D

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
03-29-2017, 04:30 PM
Thanks for the feedback so far on the Warden everyone! I'm making a note of it and forwarding it to the team. :D

On the bright side, this shows that they may possibly be active in the forums. Thanks for listening.
But on the subject, this really may be the only change needed for an incredibly balanced character. It would keep the shoulderbash strong with out it being uncounterable.

Ngallo22
03-29-2017, 04:49 PM
Thanks for the suggestion jacoblwade127! Any other warden players have thought on this?

No way. The shoulder bash is the only way a Warden can surprise the enemy. The Warden's other attacks are far too slow (minus the top light, which anyone who knows how to play against them will keep their top guard up) and easily readable. Shoulder bash doesn't deplete enemy stamina like other heroes too so at least they get a chance to evade

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
03-29-2017, 04:52 PM
No way. The shoulder bash is the only way a Warden can surprise the enemy. The Warden's other attacks are far too slow (minus the top light, which anyone who knows how to play against them will keep their top guard up) and easily readable. Shoulder bash doesn't deplete enemy stamina like other heroes too so at least they get a chance to evade

He doesn't want to get rid of the shoulderbash, he only wants to take out a GB transition.

xLeapingLizardx
03-29-2017, 09:56 PM
No way. The shoulder bash is the only way a Warden can surprise the enemy. The Warden's other attacks are far too slow (minus the top light, which anyone who knows how to play against them will keep their top guard up) and easily readable. Shoulder bash doesn't deplete enemy stamina like other heroes too so at least they get a chance to evade

The Zone attack is fast too....

Fruttie
03-29-2017, 10:05 PM
The Zone attack is fast too....

But it always comes from the same side, deals 20 damage wich is't enough to kill off a player at 1 health bar(not considering gear), doesn't chain/combo into anything, consumes about 50% of your stamina bar and is punishable just by blocking it.

S.J.Lannister
03-29-2017, 10:52 PM
You ignored my facts, so I ignored your hyperbole.

Warden's vortex is counterable by light attacks, case closed.


/thread

That is correct.

Why others says that shoulderbash is uncounterable? I use it and some players counter it with dodge+light attack which makes me unable to Guard Break them. Especially Orochi Class do that just fine.

I know it is easier to whiny that Warden should be nerfed. It is easier to broke the class than fix your gameplay ;)

Using this logic every class is on it's own way OP. Orochi is too fast, Peacekeeper is too fast. Nobushi is too fast. Valkyrie is too fast. Warden zone attack is too fast even if you need just to guard your left side while moving forward to Warden.

Fruttie
03-29-2017, 11:01 PM
That is correct.

Why others says that shoulderbash is uncounterable? I use it and some players counter it with dodge+light attack which makes me unable to Guard Break them. Especially Orochi Class do that just fine.

I know it is easier to whiny that Warden should be nerfed. It is easier to broke the class than fix your gameplay ;)

Using this logic every class is on it's own way OP. Orochi is too fast, Peacekeeper is too fast. Nobushi is too fast. Valkyrie is too fast. Warden zone attack is too fast even if you need just to guard your left side while moving forward to Warden.

In my personal opinion the game should be balanced based on the majority of the playerbase. And in the case of the wardens "vortex" the majority of the playerbase has trouble dealing with it.
You can argue that a game should be balanced on high level competitive play but in reality its the majority of players wich provide the playerbase and thereby money to the company. Its more beneficial to piss off the few top tier players by slightly nerfing one hero, then to make the main playerbase hate a certain hero.

This is from my viewpoint the case atleast. And I am like most people playing just a casual non-competitive midtier player.

S.J.Lannister
03-29-2017, 11:05 PM
In my personal opinion the game should be balanced based on the majority of the playerbase. And in the case of the wardens "vortex" the majority of the playerbase has trouble dealing with it.
You can argue that a game should be balanced on high level competitive play but in reality its the majority of players wich provide the playerbase and thereby money to the company. Its more beneficial to piss off the few top tier players by slightly nerfing one hero, then to make the main playerbase hate a certain hero.

This is from my viewpoint the case atleast. And I am like most people playing just a casual non-competitive midtier player.

I see your point. At some part I even agree. Using point from the business model it is right thing to do.

But as a player - we should not fix every class because some just can't figure it out.

Fruttie
03-29-2017, 11:13 PM
I see your point. At some part I even agree. Using point from the business model it is right thing to do.

But as a player - we should not fix every class because some just can't figure it out.

I'd say in balancing a certain hero/move you should also take into consideration the learning curve to counter said move/hero. Again watching to alot of people who don't have the time to invest into it or simply don't play the game enough to figure it out. I can understand it can be very frustrating to alot of people, imagine been decent at a game and suddenly an opponent uses a seemingly unfair combo on you you cannot escape from. They try to do everthing but still cant seem to figure it out. What are they going to do in most cases? Probably quit out of frustration instead of keeping it cool and finding out the right way to counter that move.

I know its sometimes difficult to do, but you have to think of the fact that the majority of the playerbase does not read forums and tries their ultimate best to counter every hero and stuff. Those people maybe only play a few matches once a day or even only every other day.

S.J.Lannister
03-29-2017, 11:16 PM
I'd say in balancing a certain hero/move you should also take into consideration the learning curve to counter said move/hero. Again watching to alot of people who don't have the time to invest into it or simply don't play the game enough to figure it out. I can understand it can be very frustrating to alot of people, imagine been decent at a game and suddenly an opponent uses a seemingly unfair combo on you you cannot escape from. They try to do everthing but still cant seem to figure it out. What are they going to do in most cases? Probably quit out of frustration instead of keeping it cool and finding out the right way to counter that move.

I know its sometimes difficult to do, but you have to think of the fact that the majority of the playerbase does not read forums and tries their ultimate best to counter every hero and stuff. Those people maybe only play a few matches once a day or even only every other day.

Like I said - I see your point :)

CAR0.
03-29-2017, 11:48 PM
I dont have a problem with wardens kit, Just make it be possible to punish a missed shoulder bash i.e if they miss SB you should be able to GB without them being able to counter it. Aswell as that be able to light attack instead of going for GB. this way warden players wont spam the bash

Fruttie
03-29-2017, 11:53 PM
I dont have a problem with wardens kit, Just make it be possible to punish a missed shoulder bash i.e if they miss SB you should be able to GB without them being able to counter it. Aswell as that be able to light attack instead of going for GB. this way warden players wont spam the bash

While I agree the point that it should be punishable with a light attack, guardbreaks should not be uncounterable just because you missed a shoulderbash.

CAR0.
03-30-2017, 12:12 AM
While I agree the point that it should be punishable with a light attack, guardbreaks should not be uncounterable just because you missed a shoulderbash.

I mean an SB is a 50/50 either bash or turn it into a GB, so I think it should hold to same properties as a normal GB has. If you a miss a GB you are open to a GB yourself. so if a wardens SB is a 50/50 between the bash or GB then as the opponent we should also be give na 50/50 to punish, either a GB that is not able to be countered or a light attack.

Fruttie
03-30-2017, 12:15 AM
I mean an SB is a 50/50 either bash or turn it into a GB, so I think it should hold to same properties as a normal GB has. If you a miss a GB you are open to a GB yourself. so if a wardens SB is a 50/50 between the bash or GB then as the opponent we should also be give na 50/50 to punish, either a GB that is not able to be countered or a light attack.

Other classes with zero damage stagger attacks can also counter guardbreaks, so the warden should be able to counter it aswel. I have no problem with a guaranteed light attack but a guaranteed guardbreak usualy means a free heavy or even worse, thats too much punishment for 1 missed non-damaging attack.

Porch-Skunk
03-31-2017, 05:38 PM
Nice, I was glad to see a good discussion come from this post :) I did notice players mention using a light attack to cancel my shoulder bash...usually if I hold it a second longer I super armor the light and am able to full bash into over head heavy. So instead of having a 50/50 situation on what I will do, theirs really 3 options based on what the enemy does I love my warden, and I am talking about a slight nerf to myself, but I also know warden is not the only one that needs a balance, all the classes do in some way and i figure talking about my own class is a good way to start. Good discussions like the ones in this post, especially having been read by Ubi, are a great start to further balancing the game. When thinking of the shoulder bash though, I imagine how discussions would go if the conquerer and lawbringer could also cancel their charges/pushes into guard breaks....maybe that would be a good buff instead of nerfing warden? >.> I think a conq. being able to GB cancel bash would be absolutely horrifying personally lol.

Also I never really felt I needed the ability to GB cancel bash to do well as a warden, they really are quite versatile either way, but the ability to do so does heavily increase pressure on the enemy.

Porch-Skunk
03-31-2017, 05:41 PM
I also think it would be great if my Lawbringer could net a light after landing a push, that would be sweet. Or canceling push with GB would be pretty nice too, but I am sure many would think that a bit op. That is sort of where my thinking came from for the Warden.

CandleInTheDark
03-31-2017, 06:10 PM
This is the kind of thread I like to see. I tried one for the peacekeeper with that having been my first main but I think people are so argued out in that everyone is entrenched one way or the other and it devolves into yelling back and forth, it will really be a case of seeing where she is when she gets balanced or has work towards her being balanced.

I have been putting time into the warden so from my own experience,i wouldn't be upset if you had to hard feint the charge to cancel into guardbreak as opposed to going right into it which I did by accident more often than not when I first started using it and figured out my second time in. I hadn't really known where people were talking about the 50/50 before that. Personally I try not to vortex, I like to keep my stamina high to throw out either a heavy or zone but I can see where people get annoyed with those who do abuse it so while it is dodgeable that seems to be the rea that needs working on.

Netcode_err_404
03-31-2017, 07:22 PM
I also think it would be great if my Lawbringer could net a light after landing a push, that would be sweet. Or canceling push with GB would be pretty nice too, but I am sure many would think that a bit op. That is sort of where my thinking came from for the Warden.

This.This and just this.

If that happens i already can see the wardens come here and istantly ask a nerf, because they hate when you beat them using the same cheap spam tactic.

HAve you ever tried to defeat a prestige 5 vortex spammer playing as a spammer conq ? They literally get mad and salty in no time LOL.

Apparently using a bash that allow free damage, and beeing able to cancel it MID ANIMATION to gain a free GB and a free insta enviroment kill, or a free r2 damage is fine.

Losing 3/4 hp because some maps are garbage and you get closed in a corner is fine, that clearly shows, you were better than me to chain damage me pressing 2 buttons.

Thats CLEARLY skills.


Same with revenge PK, dealing me 5 bars of heath with a single light attack, doesn't make you better than me, hope you guys can understand my argument.

Burn-The-Sinner
03-31-2017, 07:54 PM
https://youtu.be/feuVBqkWEbk

now let me leave this vid real quick for all you nubs thinking warden it's op. You can get a lot insight on how deal with wardens, especially their shoulder bash startup.

Netcode_err_404
03-31-2017, 08:04 PM
https://youtu.be/feuVBqkWEbk

now let me leave this vid real quick for all you nubs thinking warden it's op. You can get a lot insight on how deal with wardens, especially their shoulder bash startup.

What i've seen, is one conq expliting the light feint attacks, where the class itself SAY black on white "This class cannot feint"

Better noob than glitcher.

PS: Warden vs conq, what a surprise XD
Whoever won that passed the turn and got a warlord or a pk right ?

lDelicious
03-31-2017, 08:22 PM
https://youtu.be/feuVBqkWEbk

now let me leave this vid real quick for all you nubs thinking warden it's op. You can get a lot insight on how deal with wardens, especially their shoulder bash startup.

The devs have already stated that the Conq is OP (along with the Warlord), so what are you trying to proof?

Just because one character is MORE broken than the other does not excuse EITHER of them.

And lets get something straight, there is NO 50 / 50 for Warden is is 25/25/25/25

1) He barges you and does the 2 light attacks
2) He charges for a hyper armour heavy attack
3) He charges up his attack and presses guard break for a untechable GB if you try and dodge
4) He cancels the attack to parry your light to put you back into the vortex

Does this look like a 50 / 50 to you? If the Warden remains how he is, then once other members of the top 4 get nerfed this guy is all you're going to see at high level play. Stop pretending as if the character is balanced, it isn't...

xLeapingLizardx
03-31-2017, 08:33 PM
But it always comes from the same side, deals 20 damage wich is't enough to kill off a player at 1 health bar(not considering gear), doesn't chain/combo into anything, consumes about 50% of your stamina bar and is punishable just by blocking it.

I was just referring to the guy saying that all wardens attacks are slow except his top light.... Just pointing out that it is obviously not true.

So my question is where do you hold your guard? top or to the left? both sides have a fast attack that is generally difficult to block from reaction..

Porch-Skunk
03-31-2017, 10:05 PM
It also comes down to the visual cue when he is in vortex. It is the only move with 1 visual q and 3-4 outcomes. Much of for honor is acting and reacting to visual and sound cues while also preparing for feints. It is already a pretty strong mind game without the added stress of guess work which is the idea behind my initial post. As a warden, having to cancel then go into guard break would not effect my combat hardly. Its like feinting with any other class, just being able to feint an unblockable ability. At least that way the enemy player has some form of cue to add into how they react. Still the vortex would still be really strong with all the possible outcomes.

CandleInTheDark
03-31-2017, 10:15 PM
If they flash white then they are putting you out of range for a couple of things but I can see where that is an issue and as a main, yeah that is a pretty cruddy situation to be put in. Honestly if they nerfed the hell out of it I can honestly say I would still use Warden as I tend to use the shoulder barge as a punish for a whiff when they are near a corner and I tend to use it at most once more as missing it all together punishes me and I want to keep my stamina up. I also find top heavy after the first two lights and a reset to neutral which will need to happen sooner or later to be more satisfying. But I do agree that the fact I could just choose to grab you with no other visual indication is an issue.

Epoqx
04-01-2017, 12:54 AM
https://youtu.be/feuVBqkWEbk

now let me leave this vid real quick for all you nubs thinking warden it's op. You can get a lot insight on how deal with wardens, especially their shoulder bash startup.

If class 1 is considered better than class 2, it doesn't mean that class 2 isn't better than class 3.
There is different tiers for each level of OPness. (And different classes counters other different classes, for example warden is a natural counter to kensei do to his kit).

Interesting video tho.

Burn-The-Sinner
04-01-2017, 08:18 AM
somehow one of my posts got lost so...

what you should take from the video are two things:

1) Just light attack warden during shoulder bash winding for an easy interrupt

2) Double tap space bar if he gets you in the chain for 100% counter. 1-0-0-%

2 very basic and easy things. Learn them, get good, and ***** less. Oh yea, keep guard to your left, if his zone gets merely blocked, you get a free guard break.

TCTF_SWAT
04-01-2017, 08:45 AM
Warden's Za shouldn't be punishable by a GB.

Chucky_Jones
04-01-2017, 08:48 AM
somehow one of my posts got lost so...

what you should take from the video are two things:

1) Just light attack warden during shoulder bash winding for an easy interrupt

2) Double tap space bar if he gets you in the chain for 100% counter. 1-0-0-%

2 very basic and easy things. Learn them, get good, and ***** less. Oh yea, keep guard to your left, if his zone gets merely blocked, you get a free guard break.

Rolling back isn't a counter, it's an escape. It doesn't punish the warden and it leaves you with less stamina than the warden. Eventually you will run out out of stamina or be backed into a corner or just fail to react fast enough and the warden will get risk free damage. A quick light attack is also risky because the warden can just cancel the charge and parry/crushing counter you. If the vortex is going to stay as good as it currently is it should at least be punishable.

Burn-The-Sinner
04-01-2017, 10:19 AM
Eventually you will run out out of stamina or be backed into a corner or just fail to react fast enough and the warden will get risk free damage.

It works for me, works for the guy in the video i linked. Yeah, eventually you will need to learn to deal with it, instead of complaining about everything. You will not get a button that you can press at any time and fix all your problems at once.

SnugglesIV
04-01-2017, 10:27 AM
somehow one of my posts got lost so...

what you should take from the video are two things:

1) Just light attack warden during shoulder bash winding for an easy interrupt

2) Double tap space bar if he gets you in the chain for 100% counter. 1-0-0-%

2 very basic and easy things. Learn them, get good, and ***** less. Oh yea, keep guard to your left, if his zone gets merely blocked, you get a free guard break.

1) What Wardens are you playing against? I'd love to play against those Wardens who have no idea how to space themselves out as to not be able to get interrupted by a light but still get a easy SB.

2) I literally tell people to do this against Warlord head butt, and yet that gets nerfed. If we're going to be consistent, then we would have to see some kind of nerf against SB (especially since it is WAY harder to counter than Warlord head butt, which has no real 50/50 potential other than just going for the GB instead).

3) Yeah your tips do work, against Wardens who have no idea how to space themselves out. Even if you can get a free light if you guess the 25/25/25/25 (which has been pointed out earlier), that's such a little reward for so much effort to counter it. And heavens forbid you play someone who's lights aren't fast enough. Do you really want to reduce the game to rock, paper, scissors where some match ups are the Warden's game to lose (or throw in whoever you want in Warden's place)? The ONLY thing of merit in your post is your point about free GB after blocking Warden zone. But good luck finding a Warden who throws out zones when it is unsafe for them to do so...

As a constructive piece of advice with balancing SB, just make it so you can GB after a Warden misses his SB. And if you think that is too much, remember that's only for a MISSED shoulder bash. If he hits you and "falls over you" (ie. you get staggered but he is unable to follow up on it), then he should be able to still tech a GB attempt.

lDelicious
04-01-2017, 11:35 AM
3) Yeah your tips do work, against Wardens who have no idea how to space themselves out. Even if you can get a free light if you guess the 25/25/25/25 (which has been pointed out earlier), that's such a little reward for so much effort to counter it. And heavens forbid you play someone who's lights aren't fast enough. Do you really want to reduce the game to rock, paper, scissors where some match ups are the Warden's game to lose (or throw in whoever you want in Warden's place)? The ONLY thing of merit in your post is your point about free GB after blocking Warden zone. But good luck finding a Warden who throws out zones when it is unsafe for them to do so...

And this is the issue. Warden is one of the easiest, if not THE easiest character to play yet he has this low risk, high reward tool that anyone with any common sense can see is OP. If it were a 50 / 50, then fair enough, but it's not a 50 / 50 when he has 4 different options that must be reacted to in mere MS's.

IAstarothI
04-01-2017, 12:11 PM
You can counter the warden shoulder bash by doing a light attack, but all new players dont know about this of course

lDelicious
04-01-2017, 01:07 PM
You can counter the warden shoulder bash by doing a light attack, but all new players dont know about this of course

If you had read the previous page:


And lets get something straight, there is NO 50 / 50 for Warden is is 25/25/25/25

1) He barges you and does the 2 light attacks
2) He charges for a hyper armour heavy attack
3) He charges up his attack and presses guard break for a untechable GB if you try and dodge
4) He cancels the attack to parry your light to put you back into the vortex

I have seen what skill bracket you play at, you are in the 58th percentile so of course you are not going to agree with the points being made in this thread.

At your level of play, throwing out a light attack might be good enough, but for high level play that isn't the case. Some characters can't even light attack fast enough to counter the SB, so what then? Double roll away and lose a big chunk of your stamina only to be chased down by the Warden and/or give up map control?

Porch-Skunk
04-05-2017, 09:31 PM
I wonder how different things are for pc and console, cause I play on console. I have heard things seem different for players on the different outlets with frames and stuff considered. (just hearsay tho)

Perhaps a better conversation to be had is instead of nerfs, how can we buff the others to make them of equal play...I main lawbringer now, and theirs some work to be done there for 1v1 lol. I faught a headbutter earlier today....and let me say....damn. Things like this are NOT impossible to deal with of course, but I think the other classes would love to have something about them as well that makes players go "god damn that move" like I see many do with SB and Headbutt. Warden SB is on the list of god damn that move I think. I can win a good portion of my duals without using SB at all as warden. The light attacks are a good speed, the over head heavy when throwing people into a wall is effing crazy, and that zone. His block speed is quite good too (compared to every thing about lawbringer).

I am also not the poster child of skill on for honor, but I do watch matches online and tournaments where very skilled players are saying the same type of thing I am already thinking. The original post was just stating perhaps having to feint the charge (that no other class can do i think, correct me if i am wrong) then be able to GB. Otherwise their is no indicator what so ever for the player to use to react to...like at all....and sure you can light attack, I'll just super armor that and get a free 60 dmg overhead. Can pretty much launch that SB at any moment you choose to as warden. Would be nice if LB could charge the shove to knock people to the ground and get a heavy off....maybe LB buff?