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View Full Version : Warden is too OP?



nipop0
03-25-2017, 05:32 PM
First off, I would like to state I am usually not the one to complain and whine and many things, but I think this is a serious problem. At first warden seems really well balanced, especially for low-mid level. Once in high level, it changes big time. I've always wondered why almost all the youtubers that were high level were always playing as wardens, until I got to high-level myself. I noticed even more wardens, and I noticed warden were the ones killing me the most no-matter what class I played. The warden takes most of his moves from all the other classes. For example, the shoulder charge could be the same a warlords charge, but better. His double attack, taken from the orochi, and he also has a pretty decent throw distance. The problem with is, they're basically uncounterable. They usually almost go full on defensive and when they don't they just abuse their shoulder bash. The shoulder bash is the biggest problem, if you dodge it the warden just cancels it into a gb which is uncounterable since you dodged. and if you stay there he just continues his charge and gets free hits. when he isn't doing this he's just sitting there, defending, parrying, not falling for feints. it's absolutely insane. He's basically invincable, and it doesn't help that he also gets a zone attack along with all of these things listed.

We.the.North
03-25-2017, 05:38 PM
Remove uncounterable guard break after a block / parry (thus fixing the defensive meta) and the warden would be fine ...

But I'll still vote Warden is OP because I dont play him. (See how that poll isn't accurate at all ??)

Simi_Xiamara_
03-25-2017, 05:52 PM
Remove uncounterable guard break after a block / parry (thus fixing the defensive meta) and the warden would be fine ...

But I'll still vote Warden is OP because I dont play him. (See how that poll isn't accurate at all ??)
This is how to destroy the warden lol. Only thing you left him with is Sholder bash vortex. And if you say that'd op your just bad

MassiveD.
03-25-2017, 05:54 PM
Vortex is incredibly easily counterable by simple light attacks you muppets... They will try to either bash or mix into GB, both ar defeated by a simple light attack, vortex doesnt even work on bots anymore, and it definitely shouldnt work against players, lol

Snickers-Bar
03-25-2017, 06:08 PM
I agree shoulder bash is unbalanced atm. Imo a solution would be to move shoulder bash to an input with C+guardbreak like nobushi (keybaord) with a bit of backward momentum.
This way warden ability to pressure into a dodge his opponent is weakened.

Vingrask
03-25-2017, 07:53 PM
Vortex is incredibly easily counterable by simple light attacks you muppets... They will try to either bash or mix into GB, both ar defeated by a simple light attack, vortex doesnt even work on bots anymore, and it definitely shouldnt work against players, lol

Should be a way to show the player skill on posts, right?

A lot of complains about Peacekeeper and Warden, and I do not have problems with them at all.

Warlord and Conqueror my problem is how they can turtle and the fight take an eternity, but man, poor Conqueror with a non feintable hit which can be parried. Warlord and his tiny range, everytime he tries headbutt me I just trade a light for it: I got no damage, he does.

secrecy274
03-25-2017, 08:03 PM
Vortex is incredibly easily counterable by simple light attacks you muppets... They will try to either bash or mix into GB, both ar defeated by a simple light attack, vortex doesnt even work on bots anymore, and it definitely shouldnt work against players, lol

No, it's not.
The only light that's fast enough (at least for my main) is top, so guess what a good Warden will parry?

MassiveD.
03-25-2017, 08:13 PM
No, it's not.
The only light that's fast enough (at least for my main) is top, so guess what a good Warden will parry?

Can warden even cancel vortex into Top riposte?

And you can easily do it with side lights, and classes like Orochi, PK, Nobushi and Berserker who can zephyr sideways absolutely shreks wardens vortex.

Vortex is really not an issue if you counter it with a light

secrecy274
03-25-2017, 08:16 PM
Can warden even cancel vortex into Top riposte?

And you can easily do it with side lights, and classes like Orochi, PK, Nobushi and Berserker who can zephyr sideways absolutely shreks wardens vortex.

Vortex is really not an issue if you counter it with a light

Yes, they can, been on the receiving end of that too many times to deny it, and no, the Lawbringers side lights are not fast enough to stop the shoulderbash.

MassiveD.
03-25-2017, 08:18 PM
Yes, they can, been on the receiving end of that too many times to deny it, and no, the Lawbringers side lights are not fast enough to stop the shoulderbash.

Lawbringers own vortext is faster and has priority over wardens vortex tho... just push them

secrecy274
03-25-2017, 10:28 PM
Lawbringers own vortext is faster and has priority over wardens vortex tho... just push them

The problem is that the Lawbringer can't start his "vortex" from scratch, he need to either dodge, block or hit with a heavy to initiate a push.

MassiveD.
03-25-2017, 10:49 PM
The problem is that the Lawbringer can't start his "vortex" from scratch, he need to either dodge, block or hit with a heavy to initiate a push.

Just like warden, and lawbringers is much faster to initiate

secrecy274
03-25-2017, 11:37 PM
Just like warden, and lawbringers is much faster to initiate

Well, for starters, Shove has shorter range, doesn't guarantee damage and can't be canceled into a Guard Break or a block.
However, that's not the point. Shove is useless to get out of the Warden "vortex", which we are discussing, because it can't be initiated during a Warden "vortex" making it useless to escape.

nipop0
03-26-2017, 04:32 PM
MassiveD the problem is that players that cant zephyr slash doesn't mean ****, since the warden cancels bash into a guardbreak

Pincopallino097
03-26-2017, 05:30 PM
nope, he is not. He has bonuses over certain Attacks that other characters own and are stronger, eg: the heavy overhead is slow and deals too few damage compared to the Nobushi one (that is also free after GB).

nipop0
03-27-2017, 12:23 AM
nope, he is not. He has bonuses over certain Attacks that other characters own and are stronger, eg: the heavy overhead is slow and deals too few damage compared to the Nobushi one (that is also free after GB).

but what about the uncounter able vortex? that he can easily switch into a gb if you dodge?

Pincopallino097
03-27-2017, 11:25 AM
but what about the uncounter able vortex? that he can easily switch into a gb if you dodge?

If you dodge in the right moment it will be too late for GB

MassiveD.
03-27-2017, 11:28 AM
MassiveD the problem is that players that cant zephyr slash doesn't mean ****, since the warden cancels bash into a guardbreak

You cant grab characters in mid zephyr genius

MassiveD.
03-27-2017, 11:30 AM
Well, for starters, Shove has shorter range, doesn't guarantee damage and can't be canceled into a Guard Break or a block.
However, that's not the point. Shove is useless to get out of the Warden "vortex", which we are discussing, because it can't be initiated during a Warden "vortex" making it useless to escape.

Yes you can, dash forward into push happens in a blink of an eye if done quick and precise, its much faster than wardens shoulder charge, thus can be used to counter vortex 100% of the time, especially that while pushing LB is also immune to GB

MassiveD.
03-27-2017, 11:31 AM
but what about the uncounter able vortex? that he can easily switch into a gb if you dodge?

Countered by light attacks, learn to read buddy

Dark.Knights
03-27-2017, 12:44 PM
This **** is OP, so many advantage he got.
1 Shoulder Charge> guarantee light attack.
2. Shoulder Charge>Cancel to GB (GB are guarantee if opponent dodge)
3. Parry>light attack are guarantee.

Tomas_Jari
03-27-2017, 12:47 PM
He is OP, for sure. I hate to fight with him. I play as Kensei. Sometimes I beat him, but thats cos I play agains lowskill warden. How could be so fast warden with his big sword? And his zone attack is really quick, too. do something with that.

S.J.Lannister
03-27-2017, 01:16 PM
Well, for me every class I don't understand or I don't have enough skill to play with is OP. For example Shugoki for me is OP because I lost so much duels with that Class. Now Orochi is OP for me because at High Reputation Level I face many experienced player also playing Orochi that I can't beat.

But to be serious - there is no OP Class in For Honor. Some can be better, but skills are everything. Not matchmaking, not gear, not class. Skills only. You can't beat Warden? He is not OP, you suck. You didn't learn him. You can't use the same strategy to all characters.

Specialkha
03-27-2017, 01:19 PM
Well, for me every class I don't understand or I don't have enough skill to play with is OP. For example Shugoki for me is OP because I lost so much duels with that Class. Now Orochi is OP for me because at High Reputation Level I face many experienced player also playing Orochi that I can't beat.

But to be serious - there is no OP Class in For Honor. Some can be better, but skills are everything. Not matchmaking, not gear, not class. Skills only. You can't beat Warden? He is not OP, you suck. You didn't learn him. You can't use the same strategy to all characters.

So according to your dumb logic, warlord and PK are not OP?

lDelicious
03-27-2017, 01:45 PM
If people want to pretend that the Warden is not OP, then so be it. When the Warlord & Conqueror get nerfed, you are going to see ALOT more Wardens.

Alchemist..
03-27-2017, 01:50 PM
Most **** thing in vortex is insta gb, i never can react on his gb if opponent cancel vortex near to me. Its like insta gb if he is close enough. But vardens vortex its most easy to ****er, conq have most hard counter if he catch you with one you are ****ed up

S.J.Lannister
03-27-2017, 01:54 PM
So according to your dumb logic, warlord and PK are not OP?

Dumb logic? Well I don't think I can say anything that will make you rethink anything :)

But I'll try - generally yes - there are no OP Class. Learn your opponent, adapt your strategy, win your duel.

Specialkha
03-27-2017, 02:03 PM
Dumb logic? Well I don't think I can say anything that will make you rethink anything :)

But I'll try - generally yes - there are no OP Class. Learn your opponent, adapt your strategy, win your duel.

Like I said, dumb logic. What do you think about that then: even Ubisoft said that some class are OP (Warden/Warlord/Conq/PK) and will get nerf while some others (mostly LB) will get buff?

Tell us, genius.

Madein1987
03-27-2017, 02:03 PM
How to fix Warden in 2 steps:
1) remove the ability to cancel shoulderbash into GB
2) Make whiffed shoulderbashes punishable by an untechable guardbreak. (I think that would become automatic simply by fixing 1))
Poof! Warden is now balanced, strong and still in a good place.

Pincopallino097
03-27-2017, 03:12 PM
This **** is OP, so many advantage he got.
1 Shoulder Charge> guarantee light attack.
2. Shoulder Charge>Cancel to GB (GB are guarantee if opponent dodge)
3. Parry>light attack are guarantee.

All of that is counterable...

Simi_Xiamara_
03-27-2017, 03:53 PM
So according to your dumb logic, warlord and PK are not OP?
From all the threads I have seen here are the "OP" CLASSES
Nobushi,warden,warlord,pk,shigoki,conq,
orochi,valkyrie there are probably more but those are the only classes ik on top my head that get complained about. That sure is alot op characters lol maybe just maybe people have a hard time dealing with certin classes while others find them easy?
I personally only have a problem against pk, and Nobushi. I could easily kill pk if I practiced timing for parry (I can block them pretty easy) but my friend never gets on for me to practice and nobushi is only annoying cuz of the whole keep away game they play. (I'm currently playing warden.)

Simi_Xiamara_
03-27-2017, 04:01 PM
Like I said, dumb logic. What do you think about that then: even Ubisoft said that some class are OP (Warden/Warlord/Conq/PK) and will get nerf while some others (mostly LB) will get buff?

Tell us, genius.
that's funny I never heard any of this? Last I heard they said pk was in a good spot. And if anything they are BUFFING conq but fixing his whole shield bash spam. Warden is another class I heard nothing about from ubi.and I didn't hear this but from what I have seen warlord headbutt spam might get tweek but not a flat out nerf (this is my guess it could be totally wrong)

Are you sure your not just bad at the game lol?

You got one this right tho. They are buffing the lb

S.J.Lannister
03-27-2017, 09:43 PM
Like I said, dumb logic. What do you think about that then: even Ubisoft said that some class are OP (Warden/Warlord/Conq/PK) and will get nerf while some others (mostly LB) will get buff?

Tell us, genius.

First of all calm down boy. You are being salty - dumb logic? Tell us, genius? Can't you be just polite?

Second - show me direct link to exact word from Ubisfot that some classes are OP. This is official state of Ubisoft? Show me.

You need to understand that is different thing being OP and different thing is being better Class. Some class are better. None are OP. Why? Because it depends of your skill. I can agree that perfect played Warden can be OP. How many players play it perfect? And it is related to every class. Perfect play of any class makes it OP. Do you follow boy? Skills are everything.

THE_MAD_KlNG
03-27-2017, 11:42 PM
I do not agree that this class is OP. Because he doesn't have a whole lot going for him but I do agree it is Vortex is stupid. Especially if you are playing a heavy class where dodging is hard and is he there a 50-50 chance that guard brake or hit you with the shoulder bash if you hit you with the shoulder bash you're going to take more damage and you have to repeat the process till he tries to grab you and you counter or Dodge and hope he doesn't guard break you during your Dodge. And for the people who said you can just hit him out of it it's a lot easier said than done. A lot of classes have slow swings (for balance purposes so what's going on instant attack that you have no time to see coming) and good Warden players will just see that coming in hit you with the shoulder bash knocking you out of it and then I'll hit you again. It's stupid. You can do one of two things take out the cancel into a grab but give or give it a cool down when you can't use it again for a certain amount of time it doesn't have to be too long just enough. I've seen very skilled Wardens fight without relying only on shoulder Bash but the majority will just rely on that for a cheap went I have just fought like 15 different Warden and all of them one solely on that shoulder Bash there's no skill in it to spend it over and over and over again it is the absolute worst thing to me in this game.

jon19200
03-28-2017, 01:50 AM
I am surprised to see this many people defending Warden's position right now in the meta. Warden is most definitely S-tier having a zone attack that comes out at the speed of light, a top light that comes out just as fast, decent health/tankiness, more than decent damage, an instantaneous guard switch speed when compared to some other classes, and the absolute most bs thing that exists in this game, a 50/50 attack that literally cannot be stopped by anything except a conqueror. I'm going to explain this last part to you forum people as judging by the poll and the posts written here, you don't seem to understand how powerful this 50/50 attack actually is. Shoulder bash is stupid. It has a long range and if it connects, it allows for decent damage which can then be strung into another shoulder bash. Now let's say one attempts to dodge the bash. Great, now the warden is flying at your last location at an unrealistic and inhuman speed and then cancels it into a guard break. As guard breaks become uncounterable while dodging, there is no way to not get caught by it. "Shut it Jon," many of you may be saying. "You can cancel the bash with a light attack." Fair point... except not really. The bash actually can't be cancelled with a light attack. The Warden gains the dauntless effect while in motion from the bash. The dauntless effect basically makes it so that a heroes attack can't be cancelled by another attack. This does mean that you can cancel the bash with an attack while the Warden is charging it up. Any smart warden would not charge the bash when right next to the enemy for this specific reason.

Now that we got that light attack part out of the way, I'm going to clarify the only known way to get out of Warden's 50/50. To get out of the 50/50, you have to roll backwards. This uses a chunk of stamina in fact, this drains you of more stamina than the Warden. What you can then do is run for a little to recharge and then engage. This makes fights against good wardens drag out for long periods of time.

So now you know how to get out of the 50/50 as any class. There is one way however to actually punish the Warden for attempting this 50/50. Conqueror... As a conqueror, the smartest play you can make is to eat the shoulder bash and take on its full force. If the warden doesn't cancel it into a guard break, as soon as you get staggered, you can go into full guard instantly and block the incoming light attack. This is possible because conqueror has weirdly smaller stagger times than other heroes and his full guard happens quickly. If the warden does cancel into a guard break, all you have to do is counter the guard break.

Now that you all know how stupidly good shoulder bash is, I hope all of you other forum viewers who haven't voted on the poll yet vote for the "Yes" option. Warden is in fact op in terms of high-level play.

Netcode_err_404
03-28-2017, 02:00 AM
I am surprised to see this many people defending Warden's position right now in the meta. Warden is most definitely S-tier having a zone attack that comes out at the speed of light, a top light that comes out just as fast, decent health/tankiness, more than decent damage, an instantaneous guard switch speed when compared to some other classes, and the absolute most bs thing that exists in this game, a 50/50 attack that literally cannot be stopped by anything except a conqueror. I'm going to explain this last part to you forum people as judging by the poll and the posts written here, you don't seem to understand how powerful this 50/50 attack actually is. Shoulder bash is stupid. It has a long range and if it connects, it allows for decent damage which can then be strung into another shoulder bash. Now let's say one attempts to dodge the bash. Great, now the warden is flying at your last location at an unrealistic and inhuman speed and then cancels it into a guard break. As guard breaks become uncounterable while dodging, there is no way to not get caught by it. "Shut it Jon," many of you may be saying. "You can cancel the bash with a light attack." Fair point... except not really. The bash actually can't be cancelled with a light attack. The Warden gains the dauntless effect while in motion from the bash. The dauntless effect basically makes it so that a heroes attack can't be cancelled by another attack. This does mean that you can cancel the bash with an attack while the Warden is charging it up. Any smart warden would not charge the bash when right next to the enemy for this specific reason.

Now that we got that light attack part out of the way, I'm going to clarify the only known way to get out of Warden's 50/50. To get out of the 50/50, you have to roll backwards. This uses a chunk of stamina in fact, this drains you of more stamina than the Warden. What you can then do is run for a little to recharge and then engage. This makes fights against good wardens drag out for long periods of time.

So now you know how to get out of the 50/50 as any class. There is one way however to actually punish the Warden for attempting this 50/50. Conqueror... As a conqueror, the smartest play you can make is to eat the shoulder bash and take on its full force. If the warden doesn't cancel it into a guard break, as soon as you get staggered, you can go into full guard instantly and block the incoming light attack. This is possible because conqueror has weirdly smaller stagger times than other heroes and his full guard happens quickly. If the warden does cancel into a guard break, all you have to do is counter the guard break.

Now that you all know how stupidly good shoulder bash is, I hope all of you other forum viewers who haven't voted on the poll yet vote for the "Yes" option. Warden is in fact op in terms of high-level play.

Amen

nipop0
03-28-2017, 02:45 AM
It can be done but when the warden is directly in front of you it's almost impossible, as you would need a 100ms reaction time which is not common

nipop0
03-28-2017, 02:48 AM
(sigh) you do know you need to dodge to zephyr correct? and you're also in mid dodge by the time the zephyr starts, I wouldn't of mentioned it if I couldn't do it.

nipop0
03-28-2017, 02:49 AM
Maybe you should, not all classes can attack that fast you know that right?

AkenoKobayashi
03-28-2017, 02:52 AM
He's not OP...he just as a cheese combo.

Netcode_err_404
03-28-2017, 02:57 AM
He's not OP...he just as a cheese combo.

With the current game mechanics, means he is op. Every class with unpunishable vortex atm is op. At least if i dodge a valkyre's sweep i can punish her. Something wardens and conqs cannot.