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View Full Version : What would it take for you to get invested in modern day?



SixKeys
03-25-2017, 03:38 PM
There's no denying that the forums have been quieter in recent years than they were around 2012 when the last part of Desmond's saga came out. I think the declining enthusiasm can be at least partly explained by the disappointment many fans felt when they realized that some of their most burning questions went unanswered or were brushed aside after years of emotional investment in things like Lucy's death, the mysterious Eve, Subject 16's prophecies, Leila Marino, the First Civ Temples (plural) that Minerva and Juno talked about etc.

I know many people have no interest in modern day, but for those of you who don't, what would it take for you to GET invested in it?
And if you already are, or used to be, invested in MD, what would it take to get you excited again?

Would you get excited if the devs simply teased a new MD protagonist? Or would you need something more substantial, like a promise of a new Desmond-style trilogy? Would you be happy if they brought back the cliffhanger endings, or would you prefer stand-alone stories like the MD in Black Flag? Would you trust the devs to deliver answers or would you be hesitant to get emotionally invested in the overarching narrative again?

Sigma 1313
03-25-2017, 04:51 PM
For me, gameplay in the modern day, assassinations, and stuff like that would make me really excited. Even just something that we saw in brotherhood would make me happy though.

m4r-k7
03-25-2017, 04:52 PM
Despite being a fan since the beginning of the franchise, I have never really been a huge fan of the modern day segments. I love the overarching lore with the First Will and the pseduo-science aspects, but the modern day segments have always felt like a chore for me personally. With this in mind I would want a new modern day protagonist with a story that isn't convoluted and spread throughout every transmedia possible. There is so much happening in the modern day now (in every medium apart from the actual games) that I don't even care anymore and the modern day parts in the newer games just feel so insignificant. I just want to explore history at this point. I would love if we had a new modern day character that was more intriguing than Desmond and complements the historical portion of the game well. I mean there is so much they could do in terms of gameplay opportunities, but it seems like they just can't be bothered at the moment and I don't blame them - the story has to drag on for years and years so they can keep on making games.

SixKeys
03-25-2017, 05:03 PM
Despite being a fan since the beginning of the franchise, I have never really been a huge fan of the modern day segments. I love the overarching lore with the First Will and the pseduo-science aspects, but the modern day segments have always felt like a chore for me personally. With this in mind I would want a new modern day protagonist with a story that isn't convoluted and spread throughout every transmedia possible. There is so much happening in the modern day now (in every medium apart from the actual games) that I don't even care anymore and the modern day parts in the newer games just feel so insignificant. I just want to explore history at this point. I would love if we had a new modern day character that was more intriguing than Desmond and complements the historical portion of the game well. I mean there is so much they could do in terms of gameplay opportunities, but it seems like they just can't be bothered at the moment and I don't blame them - the story has to drag on for years and years so they can keep on making games.

What would you like the transmedia to be used for then? Stand-alone stories in MD? (For example if Galina was the next protagonist in the games, the comics would follow Charlotte doing her own thing.)

Sorrosyss
03-25-2017, 05:17 PM
A new MD protagonist goes without saying. After ten years they should be focusing on what the core fans want, and that simply is the Modern Day back front and centre.

I've been encouraged by what they are doing with Charlotte and Galina in the comics, and I hope this is their way of building them up as our next playable characters. Frankly I want all the teasing to stop. I want the Eve mystery explained, I want Juno back and causing trouble in a physical body, and I want more flashbacks to the Isu.

In short, a fairer balancing of the three tiered story (Isu, History, Modern Day) - as the older, more favoured games used to have.

Sushiglutton
03-25-2017, 05:23 PM
They need to do a soft reboot I guess. Introduce a new goal that is pretty clear and lasts over say three games (important to span multiple games imo) and then has a pay-off. Fairly self contained.

A strong cast with a clear main villain (it may of course turn out there are people above the him/her) and a non-boring protagonist (third person).

Two points above is basically: "keep it fairly simple". Which I understand suck if you are deeply invested into this, but for those of us who are not it's essential to be able to keep track at all.

Don't go too weird with the first civ stuff, focus on the human organizations of assassins and templars. The first civ people can show up for those WTF-moments lol.

Massive cliffhangers at the end of each games, those were fantastic for AC1-B.

No dull tasks in MD. Walking around and chatting is ok, cutscenes etc. And exploring ancient ruins from the historical part in modern wrapping (as in Brotherhood). Don't ask me to get the electricity back, read e-mails or hack a computer or something. MD is questionable as it is, don't add chores to this area of the game.No boss fights or combat, because there's no way they will be done right so no just no. Keep it simple, exploration, story, discovery.

I-Like-Pie45
03-25-2017, 05:46 PM
burn everything to the ground for a clean slate

Put the entire cast (transmedia included) on a boat in the Bermuda Triangle, and also kill Juno off-screen as well, and then never mention them again. Nobody wants to track down a million novels and comics, or play ten or more older games to figure out who this person in the game is or understand a plotline, so why not take care of that problem for newcomers by pretending they never existed in the first place.

In fact, why not just move the entire modern day over to Watch Dogs. Resolve all the dangling AC plot-threads with a throwaway line at the start of Watch Dogs 3 and then start a new AC modern day by combining the Assassin-Templar plot with whatever Watch Dogs is about. Furthermore Watch Dogs actually has the gameplay systems in place to support a modern day AC experience, and by doing this the devs can finally make AC history-only without any first civ or modern day as the bulk of the franchise audience who don't post on AC fansites and community actually want. And by alternating Watch Dogs and AC games every year, Ubisoft will be able to once again annualize AC without actually annualizing it.

m4r-k7
03-25-2017, 09:46 PM
What would you like the transmedia to be used for then? Stand-alone stories in MD? (For example if Galina was the next protagonist in the games, the comics would follow Charlotte doing her own thing.)

I really don't know. I would rather them save the modern day for the actual games. Maybe use transmedia to expand on characters such as Connor who aren't (probably) going to get a second game.
I feel like they are treating transmedia as a way to expand on the lore, which is fine, but they are ignoring it in-game which is pretty sad as they could do really interesting things with it.

If Egypt is a soft reboot for the franchise and the start of a new trilogy, it is the perfect time to introduce a new MD character and give us a new clear focus.

Megas_Doux
03-25-2017, 10:49 PM
I never took the modern aspect of AC during "its golden years" mostly because its laughable stealth mechanics so that would be my #1 point, better mechanics.

#2 Actual assassinations: Black box missions in a linear sequence like Hitman.

#3 A good story, but that's the most subjective thing ever so I won't go deep on that one.

Black_Widow9
03-26-2017, 01:15 AM
For me personally, I can understand why people enjoy it but it's a means to an end. I just can't wait to get back into the Animus and experience the beautiful world and get my assassin on. I feel ripped out of the actual game when I wasn't ready for it because I didn't want to leave in the first place.

When I had the option to leave the Animus and explore the modern world on my own, I enjoyed it more but it still needed more to fully engage me.

It's also weird that when you're in the Animus, you're in third person view watching the assassin but in the modern world, you're in first person view. It throws me off. If I become someone in the animus, I am that person right? That's the whole point but of Modern Day, I feel like my view would be the same since I'm still that person.

Rugterwyper32
03-26-2017, 02:22 AM
burn everything to the ground for a clean slate

Put the entire cast (transmedia included) on a boat in the Bermuda Triangle, and also kill Juno off-screen as well, and then never mention them again. Nobody wants to track down a million novels and comics, or play ten or more older games to figure out who this person in the game is or understand a plotline, so why not take care of that problem for newcomers by pretending they never existed in the first place.

In fact, why not just move the entire modern day over to Watch Dogs. Resolve all the dangling AC plot-threads with a throwaway line at the start of Watch Dogs 3 and then start a new AC modern day by combining the Assassin-Templar plot with whatever Watch Dogs is about. Furthermore Watch Dogs actually has the gameplay systems in place to support a modern day AC experience, and by doing this the devs can finally make AC history-only without any first civ or modern day as the bulk of the franchise audience who don't post on AC fansites and community actually want. And by alternating Watch Dogs and AC games every year, Ubisoft will be able to once again annualize AC without actually annualizing it.

Pretty much this. Honestly, I've never been a big fan of modern day for anything other than a framing device, so I've no problem with the way it's been handled lately. So if people want it, either make it its own thing away from the historical part (which is what I'm here for) or make it something that I can at least for the most part ignore. I'd rather just have it be its own thing though: A lot of my ill will towards it comes from it disrupting my time in the historical part. But combine it with Watch Dogs, for instance, and I've no problem with that, Watch Dogs 2 is pretty solid and in that case I wouldn't mind that, at least it won't feel like a game split in two with modern day being the less interesting part. At least if its a Watch Dogs game I can enjoy messing with people to amuse myself and make time there worth it even if I don't care much for it, and maybe with a story being 100% that it could make me feel something.

But yeah, I can't see myself invested in modern day otherwise. As it is, just give me the option to ignore it and let people who actually enjoy it have something. I wouldn't mind if there was an option for either having full gameplay or just cutscenes for modern day so you can actually get into it or just know "oh ok this happened" and move on with the game. Frankly, the less time I spend there and the more time I spend in the historical parts, the better for me.

SunderedStar
03-26-2017, 03:01 AM
For one, I feel like current day reality isn't quite as ripe a setting for highly trained killers to being running around as history. That's not to say it couldn't be if ubisoft decided to delve into the very near future and theorized a conflict breaking out to justify it, but not as of now.

The other part is they don't give the modern assassins the same respect they give the historic ones. The historic assassins are these highly trained skilled killers, masters at all weaponry available to to them. Very progressive and forward thinking in their killing techniques. The modern assassins are these ridiculous anime ninjas who seem to purposely ignore reality. Look at Galina. Does she even have a gun? Assassins have been using guns since before guns existed, why in the world is she still using throwing knives and doing these anime backflips to "dodge bullets"? She should be an absolute master at modern weaponry, not throwing a knife when she could've whipped out a concealed pistol to kill Berg. I'm not saying they should be carrying rifles around everywhere, but they should be absolute master marksmen/women and be hip to the realities of modern warfare.

A modern assassin should be like Big Boss with more parkour, not naruto.


Also, I feel like a modern warfighting assassin outfit would be way cooler than the jeans and a hoodie we get now. Not saying that jeans and a hoodie are bad, they make perfect sense, but they're kinda boring compared to what say...connor is wearing within his setting.

LoyalACFan
03-26-2017, 04:18 AM
1. New MD protagonist, obviously, none of the "play as yourself" BS. That was okay when we thought it was just a bridge to a new paradigm for MD, but they've continued to simply kick the can down the road since then with ghastly non-playable segments that grind the player experience to a dead stop.

2. A time jump. Short of a reboot, this is probably the best way to get the taste of Unity and Syndicate's lame MD crap out of our mouths. I'm NOT advocating for another race-against-the-clock meta thing where they make a built-in deadline for themselves like they did with 12/21/2012, because that will just blow up in everyone's face again. But I think we should skip ahead a bit to a point where we have a unifying, overarching goal again. Whether that's Juno, a Templar satellite, or something else doesn't really matter. There just needs to be a point to MD beyond just a callback to the Desmond era.

3. Kill the transmedia. Really, there's just far too freaking much of it, and you can't expect anyone but the most extreme diehard players to keep up with it all. Hell, I used to have practically encyclopedic knowledge about AC, but between Initiates, the books, the kids' novels, the comics, Chronicles, mobile games, and whatever all else is out there, they've kinda lost me in the last couple of years. I barely know what's going on in MD, and I would pretty much be considered a core fan. Imagine how lost the folks who just play the main games must feel.

But really, I think the best thing this series can hope for, both for the modern day and the historical segments, is a HARD reboot. Roll back everything, get rid of all the extraneous Pieces of Eden, and focus on a singular Apple being passed down and fought over throughout hundreds of generations. Because moreso than anything else in AC, Pieces of Eden have really lost their mojo. I suppose it's just a function of age; the longer the series is around, the more this stuff sort of builds up. We've got Apples, Staves, Swords, Shrouds, Ankhs, Crystal Skulls, Crystal Balls, and a bunch of other random junk like Connor's bullet shield and Arno's magic lamp. Ugh. The Apple used to be a sort of Holy Grail-esque object, one that's been hunted and fought over for centuries, but it's very difficult to get invested in that kind of storyline anymore when you realize just how much of the Isu's junk is apparently still sitting around. And yes, I'll admit that my precious AC2 was the one that started us down that path, but it's just snowballed more and more ever since.

RVSage
03-26-2017, 05:58 AM
1. I too feel there is too much transmedia, I am up to date on comics, but novels I do not have time to accomodate it. Keep Transmedia. but make it as planet orbiting the sun (The game series) .Answer minor questions left by games, not major ones

2. bring a strong playable modern day story line, don's stretch too much across games, MD from AC2 and ACB could be in a single game, And Revelations was nothing but a MD DLC
AC3 was a great example of self contained MD

3. Liink Modern day and historic setting more meaningfully, Answer As many questions as possible , leave no more than 2-3 unanswered questions (BIG ONES)for the next game

Helforsite
03-26-2017, 01:08 PM
1. Third-person playable MD protagonist
2. Give us recaps of the events essential to the story that happened in the past games and transmedia
3. Give us real MD missions, which can be skipped and are then recapped if so chosen by the people that dont want them
4. Dont force us out of the Animus to fix the electricity and other annoying chores
5. Slowly tie up a few previously loose ends and start a few new one, which eventually also get resolved
6. Make the MD story not all about the past and have important things alsp happening in MD

SixKeys
03-27-2017, 03:40 AM
But really, I think the best thing this series can hope for, both for the modern day and the historical segments, is a HARD reboot. Roll back everything, get rid of all the extraneous Pieces of Eden, and focus on a singular Apple being passed down and fought over throughout hundreds of generations. Because moreso than anything else in AC, Pieces of Eden have really lost their mojo. I suppose it's just a function of age; the longer the series is around, the more this stuff sort of builds up. We've got Apples, Staves, Swords, Shrouds, Ankhs, Crystal Skulls, Crystal Balls, and a bunch of other random junk like Connor's bullet shield and Arno's magic lamp. Ugh. The Apple used to be a sort of Holy Grail-esque object, one that's been hunted and fought over for centuries, but it's very difficult to get invested in that kind of storyline anymore when you realize just how much of the Isu's junk is apparently still sitting around. And yes, I'll admit that my precious AC2 was the one that started us down that path, but it's just snowballed more and more ever since.

I would like them to cut down on the PoEs, but not ditch all of them. They have way too much story potential. The problem as I see it is that they went crazy with the number of PoEs to the point where they lost what made them feel special. As you said, it all just starts to look like junk. And they haven't done anything truly interesting in a long time. Arno was looking for the Sword, but when he found it, it wasn't some mystic object that could control minds or foretell the future. It was just a weapon with an electric current running through it. The Shroud in Syndicate was kind of a disappointment. Again, we went from a mystical object of legend that supposedly was used by Jesus Christ himself to yet another weapon that shoots lightning. Even the Apple shot lightning. Same with the Staff(s). The initial clues in AC2 and Project Legacy hinted at much more interesting and varied purposes, but for whatever reason the devs haven't made use of those ideas.

Farlander1991
03-27-2017, 05:05 PM
Honestly, I would like a hard reboot (with better planning and more simply-constructed meta-storyline that doesn't try to tackle many main plots at once). The problem is, however, that there's so much lore already, albeit convoluted sometimes, but interesting to many (otherwise I don't think we would've had modern day-focused comics still going and the like), that it may seem like too drastic.

However, I think it's possible to have a reboot Star Trek-style, that wouldn't invalidate everything that happened in the AC series beforehand - frame it all as one of Minerva's calculations. So the 2007 to Reboot AC would be caluclation #1, and the new continuity would be calculation #2.

Helforsite
03-27-2017, 06:33 PM
I would like them to cut down on the PoEs, but not ditch all of them. They have way too much story potential. The problem as I see it is that they went crazy with the number of PoEs to the point where they lost what made them feel special. As you said, it all just starts to look like junk. And they haven't done anything truly interesting in a long time. Arno was looking for the Sword, but when he found it, it wasn't some mystic object that could control minds or foretell the future. It was just a weapon with an electric current running through it. The Shroud in Syndicate was kind of a disappointment. Again, we went from a mystical object of legend that supposedly was used by Jesus Christ himself to yet another weapon that shoots lightning. Even the Apple shot lightning. Same with the Staff(s). The initial clues in AC2 and Project Legacy hinted at much more interesting and varied purposes, but for whatever reason the devs haven't made use of those ideas.
100% agree.

SixKeys
03-27-2017, 09:18 PM
However, I think it's possible to have a reboot Star Trek-style, that wouldn't invalidate everything that happened in the AC series beforehand - frame it all as one of Minerva's calculations. So the 2007 to Reboot AC would be caluclation #1, and the new continuity would be calculation #2.

I'm not a fan of this idea because it would be the final nail in the coffin to all speculation about the mysteries and future events. If everything that has passed can be handwaved away as "Calculation #567", there's no point in discussing things like plotholes, unanswered questions or even character arcs. You'd eventually end up with the same problem as Marvel and DC comics* which is that they keep wanting to please both old fans and newcomers, so they come up with infinite universes where each and every story can be canon but not unchangeable. They believe this will help newcomers jump more easily into the universe, but the writers refuse to let go of references to old material. So you end up with readers who have no idea if Peter Parker is currently married to Mary Jane or not, if he is even the "official" Spider-Man anymore, if the public knows his identity or not, whether he is a teenager or an adult, etc. Because the writers keep rebooting the character in radical ways, then refuse to stick to that arc and revert back to the classic setup.


*Not that AC isn't headed that way already.

cawatrooper9
03-27-2017, 09:27 PM
In fact, what we need to do is stop rebooting.

Black Flag (perhaps the first big "reboot" of the series) gave us a not so well liked floating tablet, but there was at least some direction in the story. That thread was (sort of?) expanded on a little in Rogue, and ultimately abandoned afterward. Same goes for Unity and Syndicate, the Initiatives stuff, and seemingly the Erudito stuff.

The series has always been kind of like a juggler. Even with Desmond, we were juggling the First Civ, the solar flare, the African epidemic thing, the satellite launch- a lot of balls were dropped, some new ones were thrown in, some stuck, and the series did alright.

Now, we bring in a juggler, have them go for a bit. They drop some balls, sure, but before they can really gain their momentum we swipe them away and boo them offstage.

I really just wish Ubisoft would commit to a modern day thread, and make it good. Even if it's the Initiave stuff- Syndicate, as sparse as the MD was, gave us an actually pretty interesting final few minutes, probably more action than MD has seen in a main installment since 2012. Now, it seems like we're getting a soft reboot again, and many of those storylines will likely be abandoned, if not all of them. We need to just let the juggler go for a little while.

m4r-k7
03-27-2017, 11:46 PM
In fact, what we need to do is stop rebooting.

Black Flag (perhaps the first big "reboot" of the series) gave us a not so well liked floating tablet, but there was at least some direction in the story. That thread was (sort of?) expanded on a little in Rogue, and ultimately abandoned afterward. Same goes for Unity and Syndicate, the Initiatives stuff, and seemingly the Erudito stuff.


I don't know. I wouldn't call Black Flag a reboot in the slightest. I guess for modern day it was a radical change, but the core game was basically an improvement over AC 3 (which to me was more of a reboot - it was the first game that completely changed the gameplay mechanics & animations etc). I do agree though that they shouldn't completely reboot the modern day as this would make everything that has happened feel irrelevant.

LoyalACFan
03-28-2017, 12:24 AM
I would like them to cut down on the PoEs, but not ditch all of them. They have way too much story potential. The problem as I see it is that they went crazy with the number of PoEs to the point where they lost what made them feel special. As you said, it all just starts to look like junk. And they haven't done anything truly interesting in a long time. Arno was looking for the Sword, but when he found it, it wasn't some mystic object that could control minds or foretell the future. It was just a weapon with an electric current running through it. The Shroud in Syndicate was kind of a disappointment. Again, we went from a mystical object of legend that supposedly was used by Jesus Christ himself to yet another weapon that shoots lightning. Even the Apple shot lightning. Same with the Staff(s). The initial clues in AC2 and Project Legacy hinted at much more interesting and varied purposes, but for whatever reason the devs haven't made use of those ideas.

But the great thing about a hard reboot is that we could redefine the Apple's powers to include some of the more interesting traits of the other PoE's, and the abilities that the user could draw from it would depend more on their knowledge/skill with the Apple rather than a "pick it up and become God" scenario. I mean really, let's take stock of the other ones we have as of now. I think basically all of them could be either eliminated or rolled into the Apple.

The Sword- like you said, super boring, it just shoots lightning. We could retcon it out of existence and not lose anything compelling.

The Staff- pretty ill-defined powers tbh, ranging from telekinesis to mind control to invisibility. All three of which fall under the Apple's ability to create illusions.

The Crystal Skulls- already rendered obsolete by modern surveillance/telecommunications technology.

The Ankh- honestly, I hate plot devices that can bring characters back from the dead, it just encourages lazy writing and cheap death scares. Kill it with fire.

The Shroud- kinda just a weaker version of the Ankh tbh. Never thought it was all that interesting.

The Crystal Balls- the Apple has literally the exact same power to show visions of the future. They're pointless. I'm pretty sure the only reason the Crystal Balls were a thing was because they didn't want Connor to have access to an Apple that early on in his journey.

The Magic Lamp- it... summons magic swarms of bats? GTFO of here with that BS.

You see what I mean? Instead of having a dozen little MacGuffins, why not have one big granddaddy of a MacGuffin that seems all the more powerful and mysterious because of its uniqueness? It helps with storytelling, iconography, and more. Now, I wouldn't be opposed to having more little trinkets like Connor's bullet shield where appropriate, so long as their powers are pretty small and quirky compared to the Apple. After all, we can't seriously think the Apple was the only thing that survived from the distant past. But having dozens of all-powerful magic objects that rival the Apple's power just dilutes the entire mythos.


In fact, what we need to do is stop rebooting.

Black Flag (perhaps the first big "reboot" of the series) gave us a not so well liked floating tablet, but there was at least some direction in the story. That thread was (sort of?) expanded on a little in Rogue, and ultimately abandoned afterward. Same goes for Unity and Syndicate, the Initiatives stuff, and seemingly the Erudito stuff.

The series has always been kind of like a juggler. Even with Desmond, we were juggling the First Civ, the solar flare, the African epidemic thing, the satellite launch- a lot of balls were dropped, some new ones were thrown in, some stuck, and the series did alright.

Now, we bring in a juggler, have them go for a bit. They drop some balls, sure, but before they can really gain their momentum we swipe them away and boo them offstage.

I really just wish Ubisoft would commit to a modern day thread, and make it good. Even if it's the Initiave stuff- Syndicate, as sparse as the MD was, gave us an actually pretty interesting final few minutes, probably more action than MD has seen in a main installment since 2012. Now, it seems like we're getting a soft reboot again, and many of those storylines will likely be abandoned, if not all of them. We need to just let the juggler go for a little while.

Dude what? AC4 a reboot? If anything, AC4 was the one that shifted things up the least in MD. It still kept one foot planted firmly in the Desmond era while continuing to kick the proverbial can down the road with respect to Juno. The one (sort of) new thing it brought into play was the concept of the Sages, but even that was set up in Desmond's visions in AC3. AC4's MD had some fun fanservice-y moments in the hacked files, but ultimately it didn't do jack in terms of narrative progression.

Farlander1991
03-28-2017, 08:33 AM
I'm not a fan of this idea because it would be the final nail in the coffin to all speculation about the mysteries and future events. If everything that has passed can be handwaved away as "Calculation #567", there's no point in discussing things like plotholes, unanswered questions or even character arcs. You'd eventually end up with the same problem as Marvel and DC comics* which is that they keep wanting to please both old fans and newcomers, so they come up with infinite universes where each and every story can be canon but not unchangeable. They believe this will help newcomers jump more easily into the universe, but the writers refuse to let go of references to old material. So you end up with readers who have no idea if Peter Parker is currently married to Mary Jane or not, if he is even the "official" Spider-Man anymore, if the public knows his identity or not, whether he is a teenager or an adult, etc. Because the writers keep rebooting the character in radical ways, then refuse to stick to that arc and revert back to the classic setup.


*Not that AC isn't headed that way already.

To me, that last part you've mentioned is the problem there, not the approach itself. Also the fact that Marvel and DC just keep doing this out of the blue, to be honest. And the fact that even in a single universe you can't just have a 'main' comic line for a character, and that they either have several parallel running series for one character sometimes with the same arc, or put characters in a lot of crossovers, meaning if you just go through abstract issues 1 to 500 you're gonna have a lot of holes in the narrative (also there's the fact that Marvel and DC also like to crossover characters from different universes >_< ). This approach doesn't mean 'whenever there's something we're not happy about, let's reboot', like Marvel and DC honestly do (which is why I don't follow the comics of the characters I like).

I'm just thinking how Star Trek found a way to both be a reboot while at the same time being inuniverse with everything that was before it, and it worked very well for them. And AC can go a similar route which was mentioned by Desmond himself in his recordings found in AC4. The AC as it's now today can be wrapped up (I don't think JUST rebooting it out of the blue is necessary unless something REALLY ****ty happens), and a totally new AC with new stories, new arcs, new events could be started with just that one little nod to old fans. No crossovers or switching between universes or whatnot.

SixKeys
03-29-2017, 12:35 AM
You see what I mean? Instead of having a dozen little MacGuffins, why not have one big granddaddy of a MacGuffin that seems all the more powerful and mysterious because of its uniqueness? It helps with storytelling, iconography, and more. Now, I wouldn't be opposed to having more little trinkets like Connor's bullet shield where appropriate, so long as their powers are pretty small and quirky compared to the Apple. After all, we can't seriously think the Apple was the only thing that survived from the distant past. But having dozens of all-powerful magic objects that rival the Apple's power just dilutes the entire mythos.

We don't disagree in principle. I'm all for rolling some of those PoE powers into the Apple and getting rid of the ones that do the exact same thing. But I also don't think having the Apple be an Isu Swiss army knife that can do literally anything is a good plot device either. It had already become something of a deus ex machina by Brotherhood. In AC1 it was only said to create illusions, in ACB it could shoot deathrays at guards. Like when the f*** did this happen?

It's much more interesting if each PoE has only one or at most two functions. That way you can keep taking the story to interesting places because even if the Templars end up with the Apple, the assassins can look for another Piece to counter its effects. You can end one game in a suspenseful cliffhanger where the assassins fail to secure the Apple and all hope for the future seems lost. Then a glimmer of hope when they learn that there's another artefact that's different but just as powerful as the Apple. The next game ends in a cliffhanger with both sides having an ace up their sleeves, like two nations with nuclear weapons and both are afraid to be the first to push the button.

Thus far Templars seem to have a ton of PoEs in their possession while the assassins only have a couple, which raises the question why neither side ever freaking uses these things. It's supposed to be an arms race to find the next powerful artefact before the other side can claim it, but nothing in modern day ever happens even if they find one of these things. Abstergo seems content to just toss whatever they find in a vault somewhere and forget about it instead of actually using them as weapons against the assassins.

This is why the Apple in the Desmond saga actually felt important. We knew Abstergo had concrete plans to use it in their satellite to enslave mankind and we had to stop them. Vidic blackmailed Desmond into delivering it into Templar hands, and because we had seen what a bad dude Vidic was, we knew he wouldn't hesitate to use it.

The Apple used to be more than just a random McGuffin, it was vital to progression in modern day. Now Ubi doesn't care about MD anymore, so the assassins and Templars don't ever actually use PoEs. That would require Ubi to commit to long-term story arcs for MD like they did with Desmond. We no longer see consequences to our actions in MD and that, I think, is the problem. So what even if we fail to sync with our ancestor? So what if the assassins fail to locate another artefact? The Templars have been dragging their feet for years and they have like a dozen PoEs they could have used already, so there's no sense of urgency.

LoyalACFan
03-29-2017, 10:56 AM
We don't disagree in principle. I'm all for rolling some of those PoE powers into the Apple and getting rid of the ones that do the exact same thing. But I also don't think having the Apple be an Isu Swiss army knife that can do literally anything is a good plot device either. It had already become something of a deus ex machina by Brotherhood. In AC1 it was only said to create illusions, in ACB it could shoot deathrays at guards. Like when the f*** did this happen?

That's why I said it should be a skill-based thing, like you need to spend elongated periods of time studying the Apple to be able to learn the extent of its hidden powers and harness them, but at a potentially deadly cost to the user. That would allow for a plethora of abilities in the Apple's "arsenal," so to speak, without making it wholly OP. This was the way it was handled pre-ACB, with the Apple taking a noticeable toll on Altair's health and well-being as he studied it to the point of obsession over many years, but giving him incredible knowledge, powers, and technology along the way. But then ACB came along, and Ezio literally picks it up and instantly becomes a god. Yeah it drains his health, but meh. I'm talking about a scenario where the Apple's powers are essentially limitless, but to learn them, the wielder must submit to intense, deliberate study and risk being driven mad by the Apple's visions.


It's much more interesting if each PoE has only one or at most two functions. That way you can keep taking the story to interesting places because even if the Templars end up with the Apple, the assassins can look for another Piece to counter its effects. You can end one game in a suspenseful cliffhanger where the assassins fail to secure the Apple and all hope for the future seems lost. Then a glimmer of hope when they learn that there's another artefact that's different but just as powerful as the Apple. The next game ends in a cliffhanger with both sides having an ace up their sleeves, like two nations with nuclear weapons and both are afraid to be the first to push the button.

I mean, we've kind of been there already. That was sort of the premise of AC1-ACB; Abstergo's got an Apple they're planning to send into space, so Desmond and Company go picking around in Ezio's memories to find one of their own.


The Apple used to be more than just a random McGuffin, it was vital to progression in modern day. Now Ubi doesn't care about MD anymore, so the assassins and Templars don't ever actually use PoEs. That would require Ubi to commit to long-term story arcs for MD like they did with Desmond. We no longer see consequences to our actions in MD and that, I think, is the problem. So what even if we fail to sync with our ancestor? So what if the assassins fail to locate another artefact? The Templars have been dragging their feet for years and they have like a dozen PoEs they could have used already, so there's no sense of urgency.

This we definitely agree on. It also doesn't help that Ezio's super-special Apple, after being hyped up as the most powerful object in the known universe for five games, literally just freaking disappears after AC3. Do the Assassins still have it? Did the Templars find it on Desmond's corpse? Either way, why the frick has nobody used it?

ColdBloodedVet
03-29-2017, 04:31 PM
I used to know what was going on in MD but it seems like every game adds a new element and there's no real way to keep up with it unless you invest time into the trans media. When I first started playing there were assassins, templars, and ISU. Then they added sages and instruments of the first will. Now we have the weird doctor with the bodies in tanks.

I really want to have a decent MD and I like it being attached to the historical part of the game but I need it to either have fewer moving parts or keep all the current stuff but explain it in the games instead of comics and novels. There's talk of a tv show. SMH, I can already see myself getting left further behind. With the final scene from the AC movie and the presumed conclusion coming in Uprising, I get the feeling that Ubisoft is attempting to simplify things even though those who don't read the books will probably be lost when Empire ships.

I enjoy AC as a game, not as a book series. Maybe my real motivating factor to get me reinvested in MD is to put the same effort into making a MD game as they did in making MD books and comics. Because if I'm honest, they put a ton of work into the story that's presented in trans media and a game may have 15 minutes of MD content. To me that doesn't make sense.

Ps. I still love you Ubisoft. ;)

SixKeys
03-29-2017, 08:00 PM
That's why I said it should be a skill-based thing, like you need to spend elongated periods of time studying the Apple to be able to learn the extent of its hidden powers and harness them, but at a potentially deadly cost to the user. That would allow for a plethora of abilities in the Apple's "arsenal," so to speak, without making it wholly OP. This was the way it was handled pre-ACB, with the Apple taking a noticeable toll on Altair's health and well-being as he studied it to the point of obsession over many years, but giving him incredible knowledge, powers, and technology along the way. But then ACB came along, and Ezio literally picks it up and instantly becomes a god. Yeah it drains his health, but meh. I'm talking about a scenario where the Apple's powers are essentially limitless, but to learn them, the wielder must submit to intense, deliberate study and risk being driven mad by the Apple's visions.

Sure, I wouldn't mind that.



I mean, we've kind of been there already. That was sort of the premise of AC1-ACB; Abstergo's got an Apple they're planning to send into space, so Desmond and Company go picking around in Ezio's memories to find one of their own.

It comes down to the same old problem of the Apple(s) being too powerful. (I forget what even happened to the Templar Apple, did it break? Disappear?) The idea of Desmond being forced to hand it over was a good one from a narrative/emotional POV, but it made the Templars look incredibly stupid for not assuming he would use its powers against them. They had no safety measures in place, no way to protect themselves from freaking alien deathrays. Vidic of all people knew very well how powerful the Apple's effects could be on ordinary people. Did they not have any PoEs that could create a protective aura, similar to Connor's magic bullet shield?

What I would have liked to see is Vidic holding his own version of the Apple when Desmond arrives, one that can protect the Templars should Desmond try any shenanigans. But Desmond would have some ace up his sleeve that would allow him and William to walk out of Abstergo. Maybe Desmond's Apple can self-destruct, for example, and he tells Vidic he's willing to blow everyone, including himself, to smithereens unless Vidic lets William go. Vidic tries to call his bluff by saying the Templars' Apple is strong enough to shield them from the blast, but Desmond taunts him with "Are you really sure about that?". Vidic can't bring himself to take the risk, so he has no choice but to let his hostages go. Both sides have a weapon that can potentially counter the other's effects, but because they don't know absolutely everything about them (as you suggest, it should take years of dangerous research to gain extensive knowledge), they are afraid to use them against one another. Their only option is to keep trying to find ways to one-up the other side by learning to harness previously unknown powers (good excuse for introducing new gameplay elements!) or by ditching one artefact for a different approach.

cawatrooper9
03-29-2017, 09:02 PM
I don't know. I wouldn't call Black Flag a reboot in the slightest. I guess for modern day it was a radical change, but the core game was basically an improvement over AC 3 (which to me was more of a reboot - it was the first game that completely changed the gameplay mechanics & animations etc). I do agree though that they shouldn't completely reboot the modern day as this would make everything that has happened feel irrelevant.



Dude what? AC4 a reboot? If anything, AC4 was the one that shifted things up the least in MD. It still kept one foot planted firmly in the Desmond era while continuing to kick the proverbial can down the road with respect to Juno. The one (sort of) new thing it brought into play was the concept of the Sages, but even that was set up in Desmond's visions in AC3. AC4's MD had some fun fanservice-y moments in the hacked files, but ultimately it didn't do jack in terms of narrative progression.

Just to clarify, I see what you mean- AC4, more accurately, is a transitional game in its MD story.

But, with the attempt to continue that story (and, unrelated, to ultimately abandon it) does also sort of make it seem rebooty. Regardless, the point is that it's 2017 now, and we've had 3 main series entries since Black Flag. If AC4 was a transition, I feel like we're still stuck in that transitionary period, never really having made port anywhere (please excuse the pun :p)

Farlander1991
03-29-2017, 09:40 PM
Just to clarify, I see what you mean- AC4, more accurately, is a transitional game in its MD story.

But, with the attempt to continue that story (and, unrelated, to ultimately abandon it) does also sort of make it seem rebooty. Regardless, the point is that it's 2017 now, and we've had 3 main series entries since Black Flag. If AC4 was a transition, I feel like we're still stuck in that transitionary period, never really having made port anywhere (please excuse the pun :p)

AC4 indeed is more of a transitional game, wrapping up the AC1-AC3 arc and setting up a new one (the fact that it didn't really go anywhere after that is not exactly AC4's fault) to make it an easier entry point for newcomers, but it's not a reboot. A reboot is characterized by discarding previous continuity.

So, in the Tomb Raider series, Tomb Raider: Legend and Tomb Raider 2013 are reboots, Heroes of Might and Magic V is a reboot, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time and Prince of Persia 2008 are reboots (The Forgotten Sands is not as, while released later than 2008 one, it's part of the Sands of Time continuity). Basically, even if arcs and styles change, as long as continuity is kept (and AC4 does not discard the previous continuity) it's not a reboot :)

Star Trek movies that I've mentioned previously are an interesting case. They're reboots because they discard the previous continuity, but they made the 'discarding' part in-universe.

JamesFaith007
03-30-2017, 12:22 AM
. A reboot is characterized by discarding previous continuity.

So, in the Tomb Raider series, Tomb Raider: Legend and Tomb Raider 2013 are reboots, .

Tombraider 2013 is, but Legend? Legend is later tied together with story of first part of series in Underworld, so its obviously part of previous continuity.

Locopells
03-30-2017, 08:30 AM
Yes/no. It ties in closer with the remake of TR1, Anniversary, and the three do make sorta a rebooted trilogy, though not one that strays very far from the original games.




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Thanks to strigoi1958 for the sig!

Farlander1991
03-30-2017, 11:42 AM
Tombraider 2013 is, but Legend? Legend is later tied together with story of first part of series in Underworld, so its obviously part of previous continuity.

I might be wrong on this since it's been a long while since I've played the old TR games, but as far as I remember TR1-Angel of Darkness is one continuity, and TR:Legend, TR:Anniversary and TR:Underworld is another continuity, as Anniversary is not a direct remake of TR1 but rather a reimagining of it with post-Legend Lara backstory (which is different than pre-Legend) and plenty of new plot elements that weren't present in TR1.

JamesFaith007
03-30-2017, 01:27 PM
I might be wrong on this since it's been a long while since I've played the old TR games, but as far as I remember TR1-Angel of Darkness is one continuity, and TR:Legend, TR:Anniversary and TR:Underworld is another continuity, as Anniversary is not a direct remake of TR1 but rather a reimagining of it with post-Legend Lara backstory (which is different than pre-Legend) and plenty of new plot elements that weren't present in TR1.

No, I played all Tombraider games from 1 to Underworld last year (I never played 4 and 5 before and I didn't want to try them without slow adjusting to old graphic) and Anniversary isn't reimagining just very good remaster. There are new mechanics and reworked levels but story is same. Only bigger difference is meeting with Natla's henchmen in last part - in original Lara killed all, here black mad guy killed skater and then attack Lara. Other seeming differences should be caused just by longer cutscenes.

crusader_prophet
03-30-2017, 04:05 PM
While we are debating on this topic I'll leave this tad bit of info here what I want to see in modern day and historical segments of the next game AND movie:

http://kotaku.com/horizon-zero-dawns-lead-writer-says-they-spent-hundreds-1793772842

joshoolhorst
04-02-2017, 10:11 AM
Well if I want to be more invested again like I was back in 2010-2012.

-Make it playable again but with Assassination missions.
-Make it more easier to understand because I don't want to explain my friends how somethings work
-Don't retcon the hell out of it
-Likeable protagonist

But now some problems it still will have: Modern Day story needs to go on for years and the Assassin in the Modern Day look not that impressive like smebody said here I mean compare Ezio's or Connors outfit to the MD Assassin's not that I hate there look but yuk.
There isn't much to achieve in the Modern Day either Abstergo needs to exist for the MD to fight and the only few things we can do is break into some labs and kill Juno. If the story with Juno revealing herself to the world, get's killed and we see what happens to the world would be huge and interesting.

cawatrooper9
04-03-2017, 05:47 PM
Well if I want to be more invested again like I was back in 2010-2012.

-Make it playable again but with Assassination missions.
-Make it more easier to understand because I don't want to explain my friends how somethings work
-Don't retcon the hell out of it
-Likeable protagonist

But now some problems it still will have: Modern Day story needs to go on for years and the Assassin in the Modern Day look not that impressive like smebody said here I mean compare Ezio's or Connors outfit to the MD Assassin's not that I hate there look but yuk.
There isn't much to achieve in the Modern Day either Abstergo needs to exist for the MD to fight and the only few things we can do is break into some labs and kill Juno. If the story with Juno revealing herself to the world, get's killed and we see what happens to the world would be huge and interesting.


Agreed with all but the bolded.
Your friends are smart- they can figure it out.

I don't want something to be simplified- complexity is fine, as long as it's at least a coherent thread, and therein lies the rough.

D.I.D.
04-04-2017, 10:36 AM
For me, it would involve something pretty intensive.

I would want the modern day and the historical story to be deeply interwoven, and the character sitting in the Animus would need to be the glue holding the two parts together. I'd want the locations to be planned well in advance, so that you look back in three games' time and see to your satisfaction that all those choices of places and eras made sense and all of them worked together to make specific effects happen.

Ideally, I'd like it to go much further than "one person in the modern day linked with one person in the past". I keep saying this, but it's not how a person's genetic history works at all. Desmond would have been related not only to Ezio but to many of the people walking around those Italian cities, probably a good number in Constantinople too. If we see ancient Egypt, if he/she is related to the historical assassin, our MD protag would be related to a ridiculous number of the people seen on the screen at any given time.

There is an opportunity missing here. I'm not suggesting you should be able to play asl hundreds/thousands of people, but there should certainly be more use of well-chosen characters. We should be accessing more than just one assassin, at least at times. Going further, we could have really interesting stories where we get to experience the stories of major Templars too and see parts of the tale that would otherwise be hidden from us. The shared ancestral connection between our MD assassin and other MD Templars could be interesting territory to explore, too. It could make the story feel very different, and express different things and different atmospheres.

Taking a recent example of how even subtle re-examinations can change the way you feel: Nier Automata (mild spoilers) has you play the story first as 2B. You think 2B is the cool one of the pair, and 9S is a bit dorky and slightly annoying. All kinds of interesting things happen when the next play-through puts you in 9S's shoes, and you change your opinion on who he is and how you feel about him. You replay lots of gameplay from another perspective, but there are even smaller things that have a big impact. 9S gives you a tour of the menus when you were playing as 2B, and the game secretly remembered every movement you made of the cursor. Everything happens again next time, so if you messed around to annoy 9S and see what he'd say on your first play-through then in your next game your own actions annoy yourself.

[ETA] Oh, and - more political power plays and fewer PoE closers, both in the present and the past. Political thrillers, both in fiction and in real life, are much more exciting for the way that a heroic figure managed to tie the hands of powerful groups by creating a deadlock, or by outwitting them strategically. PoEs are good sometimes, but they're restrictive and they fence off the finale of the story so that it can't easily be about a dazzling moment of intelligence. It's hard to feel much of a victory about grabbing the super-powerful ancient technology which never ends the conflict and at best is a case of "we stopped it falling into enemy hands".

joshoolhorst
04-05-2017, 10:51 AM
Agreed with all but the bolded.
Your friends are smart- they can figure it out.

I don't want something to be simplified- complexity is fine, as long as it's at least a coherent thread, and therein lies the rough.

My friends are smart enough but they hate how the characters are trying to soun soooo important and never bring it up again. most of my friends still don't know how eagle vision works but they just decided to roll with it because the lore is crazy according to them

dxsxhxcx
04-05-2017, 12:45 PM
make what it was in AC1 but add a few missions (real missions with a good purpose with strong ties with the narrative, not something just for the sake of it), I don't think it needs to provide the same experience we have with the historical times, IMO a Hitman approach to the Modern Days (gameplay-wise) would suit the MD better (but this time add a REAL crowd, not 5 or 6 NPCs scattered here and there, more than anything the MD need to be immersive), the MD is there to help the narrative and that should be its main focus.

cawatrooper9
04-06-2017, 08:27 PM
My friends are smart enough but they hate how the characters are trying to soun soooo important and never bring it up again. most of my friends still don't know how eagle vision works but they just decided to roll with it because the lore is crazy according to them

That's fair, but I think that has less to do with complexity than it does with continuity. Like I said, if the storyline goes somewhere, people will bother to learn it.

Ureh
04-07-2017, 09:12 PM
Interesting discussions all around. All these possibilities that you guys bring up make my head spin with anticipation. I can only imagine the devs holding similar deliberations and brainstorming - but on a larger scale. Must've taken them buckets of sweat just to reach a (hopefully satisfying) compromise. AC has always been in a pretty huge predicament since it has to find a balance/harmony between gameplay and story (among other things). Both gameplay and story currently follow these longstanding "rules/formulas" about how they should behave... a kinda mold that they currently conform to.
***
First and foremost, the title of the franchise really ties it down, which can vary from being a blessing or curse. I'm not saying they should change the name of the game but it is very difficult hurdle to overcome especially after so many chapters. At the moment, we can completely remove the modern day segments from each game and they can still earn the title of "Assassin's Creed". 2nd, the animus, regardless of what generation model it is, is also bound by certain rules: can't do/say anything too crazy that the ancestor hasn't done before (trying to introduce animus "hacks" can be a mixed bag), and the Bleeding Effect which is currently being ignored (due to "safeguards"). 3rd, AC is a hugely popular series, which means they're trying to satisfy (or not upset) a wide audience. Easier said than done: will/can they create a present day experience that won't divide the audience into 2-3 groups. 4th, most of the games seem to be set in grand cities that are flowing with people and climbable monuments (all these can handicap other aspects without offering any real benefits of their own; large npc crowds are a sight to behold but atm are also negligible gameplay-wise). This is related to the present day because all of those freedoms are missing when the player exits the animus. 5th, streamlining certain gameplay - platforming being the biggest example - trying to make it faster/simpler all with the touch/tap of a button might be doing more harm than good. This also affects the present day gameplay... if we're already going on auto-pilot in the animus what does that mean for the gameplay in the "real world"? ACS-style sit-and-stare cutscenes, that's what. Which leads to 6th rule: the obligatory but almost redundant Eagle Vision. Back in AC1's present day the EV was used to uncover secrets and expand on the Bleeding Effect device (not to mention, while playing AC1 without the hud, we can use it a form of "echolocation" to locate unseen targets which is something that doesn't really appear in the subsequent games). But now it doesn't even show up in the present day. Based on my experience, a considerable portion of the games don't require the usage of EV because it's so easy to locate whatever we're after.

Most of these points/rules are based on the most recent games: ACU & S.

Maybe it's time... to take a leap of faith (and hopefully not break their legs in the process).

WendysBrioche
04-10-2017, 12:29 AM
I don't know. I used to like the idea, but ever since Desmond was killed off my interest in modern day has all but diminished.

It would take a lot for my interest to be piqued again. For one, it would have to be really, really, good. For another thing, it would have to be very distinct from GTA. On another note, AC tends to be more serious of a backdrop than GTA, as you're going to be on missions to assassinate Templars, so the serious tone would have to be presented in such a way that doesn't bore me off.

Another issue with present day games is if the game were to take place other than U.S. or some Western countires, you run a huge risk of offending present day governments. I'm recalling how Battlefield 4 got banned in China because the government there felt its concept was threatening in nature and ideas to their country's national security.

A game in the present day Middle East could be cool, but the probem is that the situation their is so sensitive to real life struggles people are currently enveloped in their day to day lives. For any currently war torn country, I just don't see how you go about that without offending people engaged in those politics and political climate in those parts of the world that are currently threatened.

Part of the safety of exploring these parts of the world in historical pre-1950's eras is that they can make these games for any part of the world in a way that evokes pride for any respective particular culture.

But if you make the same game in the present day, even if you don't use real world political figures, you run the risk of your bad guys being interpreted as propaganda against the people and regimes currently in power. I don't even like Ghost Recon Wildlands for that same particular reason. A bunch of hot headed Americans going into Latin America and shooting up drug lords, it's just this certain weird type of corruption of patriotic zeal, it just doesn't sit well with me personally and I just can't feel comfortable with it. Maybe some of that is my paranoia and disillusionment in regards to real world current events.

But I think the Battlefield 4 thing is tried and tested evidence that these are hoops needed to be jumped through with tact for present day games, unless you're talking about Western settings where the people and government are comfortable with conspiracy mongering in their own countries,- if only for the sake of entertainment to the point that it's politically appropriate.

Legendz54
04-10-2017, 01:18 AM
It would take a lot.

SixKeys
04-11-2017, 09:52 AM
Another issue with present day games is if the game were to take place other than U.S. or some Western countires, you run a huge risk of offending present day governments. I'm recalling how Battlefield 4 got banned in China because the government there felt its concept was threatening in nature and ideas to their country's national security.

That can happen even in the context of the historical stories, if it is to happen at all. Syndicate had a transgender character who was at least semi-important in the main story, yet the game was not banned in Russia where positive depictions of LGBT people are, at the very least, controversial. Naturally any game that tackles sensitive issues that are still relevant in parts of the world today needs to handle such things with as much tact and objectivity as possible.



But I think the Battlefield 4 thing is tried and tested evidence that these are hoops needed to be jumped through with tact for present day games, unless you're talking about Western settings where the people and government are comfortable with conspiracy mongering in their own countries,- if only for the sake of entertainment to the point that it's politically appropriate.

It's entirely possible to have a modern day story that's not tied into any current real world events. We have Otso Berg and the Black Cross, fictional Templars we could go after. Juno is still around (albeit dormant since forever) and there are still lots of mysteries to uncover about the First Civ. MD in the Desmond games never commented on current political issues (aside from S16's glyphs which were negligible side content), they were too busy with imaginary events like the Solar flare and Abstergo's satellite launch.

dxsxhxcx
04-12-2017, 01:24 PM
story-wise, at this point, IMO only a reboot could save the MD story or focus completely in another branch of the Assassin Order with no ties with Desmond's and his convoluted story, preferably set in the past, before the purge, this way they could come up with a more straightforward story, more political with no chosen one, end of the world, etc, where a few Assassination missions taking place during the MD would make sense, add a bit of fan service here and there and that's it.

ps: oh and NO [insert flying eletronic device here], thanks!

joshoolhorst
04-12-2017, 01:41 PM
Speaking about this I was playing Revelations yesterday and William was talking about using the Apple but probably didn't had the ''right genes'''these kind of things don't get mentioned anymore in AC and with the amount of Pieces of Eden I wonder why Abstergo hasn't taken the world over yet it just seems like a plot hole that there are so many of them left in the MD and Abstergo just keeps them in a fault or something just show me use them!
Sorry minor rant kinda:)
Some other things that buck me is that you really have to look into certain things to understand what happened or nobody talked what happened in Brotherhoods ending except Lucy's death.