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View Full Version : Yeah, revenge is a dumb mechanic



xjlxking
03-24-2017, 10:45 PM
I get it! The developers wanted to design a system to make sure that a player who gets attacked by multiple opposing players would have an opportunity to defeat them/ The problem is, while this mechanic somewhat does solve the issue, it also creates a new unhealthy issue

I only have one character under prestige one. I don't play this game a lot. Uplay has me under 29. I'm not saying, I'm a bad player. In fact, i do quite well despite running into players who are prestige 4+. The bottom line is, prestige does not define how good you are, just how long you have grinded the exp for. The issue is, whenever I play dominion or a mode who allows for gear, I run into people with gear score of 108+.

They are not good players. They have a hard time countering a guard break, let alone wining a 1v1. Yet, they constantly winning 1v2. Why? because when they get matched vs player who have a gear score of 25 or less, they have a advantage. I just tested in a game i had. The guy literally and purposely runs into 2v1's knowing that he only needs to block 3-4 hits from the enemy to fully charge his revenge bar.

That's now how the mechanic is suppose to work. We ended up winning the game despite not killing him. It was a repeat of him constantly getting revenge for blocking 3 hits, then healing up because of a passive, and proceeding to survive until another revenge bar was full....interesting mechanic. So now... the only way players have learned to deal with it is to spam some sort of anti-block attack in hope of making sure the player does not get a chance to even attack. A warlord like myself will spam headbutt. Every character has that attack that makes revenge redundant

My point being in this entire rant is that

While revenge does help some players stay alive in a2v1 to even turn the tide of the battle, it gets abused by gear. Getting a full revenge bar by blocking ~3 attacks when out numbered is too easy. Further more, experienced players have already learned how to deal with revenge players..by out spamming the revenge ability. The game which is suppose to be tactical devolves into a spam fest.

Thinkin0ut
03-24-2017, 11:07 PM
My only problem with revenge is when people get it in 1v1. Its a free kill. But when people get it in 2v2, they usually just spam. Parrying works for me. If hes attacking you than dont try to attack back because your hits wont stun em and he'll get free hits for whopping damage. Also when they get it, fall back cause if they pop it while your hitting them and your below half health, your basically dead. Youll fall to the ground and get decimated.

UbiJurassic
03-25-2017, 12:49 AM
We are currently investigating ways we can adjust our revenge gear to promote healthy use of the revenge mechanic. We hope to have more news to share regarding that soon.

Haemmerst0rm
03-25-2017, 01:28 AM
We are currently investigating ways we can adjust our revenge gear to promote healthy use of the revenge mechanic. We hope to have more news to share regarding that soon.

I hope you're doing something about revenge on PK, orichi and nobushi too. Their zone attack spam in revenge is really the most stupid mechanic in this game imo. Always spamming zone attack where you do the first attack to hit, but cancels the second attack. This is cheesing and cheesing is really bad for this game!

Please consider this: let the zone attack only be ONE attack instead of two like peacekeeper and nobushi. Warlord has one ZA. Orichi has one ZA. Warden has one ZA. Make it one attack instead of ridiculous 2 where you can cancel the second attack!

UbiJurassic
03-25-2017, 01:33 AM
I hope you're doing something about revenge on PK, orichi and nobushi too. Their zone attack spam in revenge is really the most stupid mechanic in this game imo. Always spamming zone attack where you do the first attack to hit, but cancels the second attack. This is cheesing and cheesing is really bad for this game!

Please consider this: let the zone attack only be ONE attack instead of two like peacekeeper and nobushi. Warlord has one ZA. Orichi has one ZA. Warden has one ZA. Make it one attack instead of ridiculous 2 where you can cancel the second attack!

While I can't say that we're working on adjusting revenge for specific characters, that doesn't mean we won't look into it for the future. If there is a problem with certain heroes in revenge mode, we'll be sure to investigate and analyze the game data to make a educated decision. I'll be sure to note your suggestion regarding the zone attacks. We've seen a lot of feedback regarding it and we're always looking for suggestions on how we can create a fair balance.

TCTF_SWAT
03-25-2017, 01:45 AM
If someone is spamming nothing but ZA's in revenge just parry it then....seriously.....

Of all ZA's nobushi's should not be spamming them. Sure it's the most damaging ZA but.....it ain't fast. It's what I expect now fom every nobushi who uses revenge. They just end up getting parried or long armed or shield bashed till their revenge runs out.

Haemmerst0rm
03-25-2017, 01:47 AM
While I can't say that we're working on adjusting revenge for specific characters, that doesn't mean we won't look into it for the future. If there is a problem with certain heroes in revenge mode, we'll be sure to investigate and analyze the game data to make a educated decision. I'll be sure to note your suggestion regarding the zone attacks. We've seen a lot of feedback regarding it and we're always looking for suggestions on how we can create a fair balance.

Glad to hear that! :) Btw where are our elite outfits? :D

sykout25
03-25-2017, 04:41 AM
If they nerf revenge mode, how the hell will anyone go against 3-4 people going around in gank squads? PURE LUCK?

Vordred
03-25-2017, 05:05 AM
i'd love a Hardcore mode where Revenge is completely turned off and instead add full team damage. you meant to fight multiple people with good positioning and good use of surroundings to limit your attackers to fighting you one at a time. and realistically your not meant win a 3v1.

but i guess that the thing these days everyone everyone moans it's not fair, my precious K/D is going down.

sykout25
03-25-2017, 05:50 AM
i'd love a Hardcore mode where Revenge is completely turned off and instead add full team damage. you meant to fight multiple people with good positioning and good use of surroundings to limit your attackers to fighting you one at a time. and realistically your not meant win a 3v1.

but i guess that the thing these days everyone everyone moans it's not fair, my precious K/D is going down.

If you weren't supposed to have a chance in a 3v1 at all, then this game's 4v4 would be boring AF. Revenge mode gives the game some FUN aspect. BUT, i agree - there should just be that hardcore option rather than remove it altogether.

Butonfly
03-25-2017, 06:20 AM
Revenge is a great and necessary feature of the game.

What revenge looks like, and how it should function is the real issue.

Obviously gear stats need adjusting.

You could make zone attacks use stamina (over half), thus no more spam.

Damage buff can be toned down.

Attacks should grant hyper armor, not total interrupt immunity (like Shigoki, only it's refreshed on initiating an attack)

Alternative: Only heavies grant hyper armor, not lights.

Butonfly
03-25-2017, 06:21 AM
While I can't say that we're working on adjusting revenge for specific characters, that doesn't mean we won't look into it for the future. If there is a problem with certain heroes in revenge mode, we'll be sure to investigate and analyze the game data to make a educated decision. I'll be sure to note your suggestion regarding the zone attacks. We've seen a lot of feedback regarding it and we're always looking for suggestions on how we can create a fair balance.

Only for certain characters it's necessary to consider how they function under revenge.

PK is one of the best examples - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G603dXFqk8Q

Thinkin0ut
03-25-2017, 07:23 AM
Revenge is a great and necessary feature of the game.

What revenge looks like, and how it should function is the real issue.

Obviously gear stats need adjusting.

You could make zone attacks use stamina (over half), thus no more spam.

Damage buff can be toned down.

Attacks should grant hyper armor, not total interrupt immunity (like Shigoki, only it's refreshed on initiating an attack)

Alternative: Only heavies grant hyper armor, not lights.

The alternative of only granting hyper armor on heavies is actually smart. However, getting ganked by spammers may cause a stunlock problem. Also, heavies are easily blocked and countered. A quick fix would be to make heavies faster when you pop revenge maybe? Also, don't allow revenge meter to fill unless your facing more than one person. 2 enemies would have to come within a certain proximity for it to begin filling. The more enemies, the faster. This would fix the gap between geared players just decimating ungeared players when they catch them by theirselves. Considering most geared players are built around revenge anyways.

tonycawley69
03-25-2017, 09:16 AM
Revenge is not the problem. Gear is not the problem. If matchmaking put people together with similar gear scores, there would be no problem, everything would be equal.

Matchmaking is the problem, not revenge, not stats on gear.

Xb1MasterNoctis
03-25-2017, 11:58 AM
I get it! The developers wanted to design a system to make sure that a player who gets attacked by multiple opposing players would have an opportunity to defeat them/ The problem is, while this mechanic somewhat does solve the issue, it also creates a new unhealthy issue

I only have one character under prestige one. I don't play this game a lot. Uplay has me under 29. I'm not saying, I'm a bad player. In fact, i do quite well despite running into players who are prestige 4+. The bottom line is, prestige does not define how good you are, just how long you have grinded the exp for. The issue is, whenever I play dominion or a mode who allows for gear, I run into people with gear score of 108+.

They are not good players. They have a hard time countering a guard break, let alone wining a 1v1. Yet, they constantly winning 1v2. Why? because when they get matched vs player who have a gear score of 25 or less, they have a advantage. I just tested in a game i had. The guy literally and purposely runs into 2v1's knowing that he only needs to block 3-4 hits from the enemy to fully charge his revenge bar.

That's now how the mechanic is suppose to work. We ended up winning the game despite not killing him. It was a repeat of him constantly getting revenge for blocking 3 hits, then healing up because of a passive, and proceeding to survive until another revenge bar was full....interesting mechanic. So now... the only way players have learned to deal with it is to spam some sort of anti-block attack in hope of making sure the player does not get a chance to even attack. A warlord like myself will spam headbutt. Every character has that attack that makes revenge redundant

My point being in this entire rant is that

While revenge does help some players stay alive in a2v1 to even turn the tide of the battle, it gets abused by gear. Getting a full revenge bar by blocking ~3 attacks when out numbered is too easy. Further more, experienced players have already learned how to deal with revenge players..by out spamming the revenge ability. The game which is suppose to be tactical devolves into a spam fest.

More crying about this lol you act like you can't kill someone in this mode when i was just starting i came across rep 7 108 with revenge build they do little bit more damage and they take less damage i came across people who use nothing but revenge i kill them all the time.

I'm a rep 3 80 Orochi i can be in a 1v3 and win 60% of the time without revenge i give them such a run for there money they use revenge. But i have revenge build i can block dodge parry deflect with it and without it i know you said you don't play a lot you just need to get better at killing people with revenge not even hard.

I don't even spam guard breaks or zone attacks.