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View Full Version : So, how's the YP-80?



robban75
03-04-2004, 02:33 AM
Will it make for interesting duels against 262's and 162's?
Some people mentioned the engine cutting out. :l



When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

robban75
03-04-2004, 02:33 AM
Will it make for interesting duels against 262's and 162's?
Some people mentioned the engine cutting out. :l



When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

necrobaron
03-04-2004, 02:39 AM
I like the P-80. There should be some very interesting jet dogfights,though the 162 seems to be more nimble than both the 262 and P-80. I'm not quite sure what to make of the Go-229. It looks incredibly cool,but I don't really understand what role it's suited for.

"Not all who wander are lost."

Magister__Ludi
03-04-2004, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by robban75:
Will it make for interesting duels against 262's and 162's?
Some people mentioned the engine cutting out. :l



When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!


Initial deliveries of P-80A had two major weaknesess:

* first was the very poor engine throttling, fuel satiation and starvation, leading to fires respectivelly to cut-offs, problem solved in the operational series after mid '46;

* second was the very heavy elevators, imposed by the manufacturers in order to limit the G-loads on the light airframe (for a jet fighter) - if it has the same elevator authority as Me-262 in FB I will get very upset since there is a wealth of data for P-80A elevator response in NACA tests.

TheGozr
03-04-2004, 02:57 AM
P-80. will win hands down for sure :)

-GOZR
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/images/pix/il2fbtmhlogosmall.jpg <--Uncensored version IL2fb here (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/themotorhead_fighters/)

Skalgrim
03-04-2004, 03:26 AM
When right remember, p80 has better rollrate, too when both turn similar wins p80 dogfight

he162 is other story, this bird has too good rollrate her powerlaoding is very good, good for sustain turn,accelerate, zoomclimb and dive accelerate and look of her sealevel speed

eric brown has like this bird.

this bird seem better as me262 in doghfight,

[This message was edited by Skalgrim on Thu March 04 2004 at 02:41 AM.]

Magister__Ludi
03-04-2004, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by Skalgrim:
When right remember, p80 has better rollrate, too when both turn similar wins p80 dogfight

he162 is other story, this bird has too good rollrate her powerlaoding is very good, good for sustain turn,accelerate, zoomclimb and dive accelerate and look of her sealevel speed

eric brown has like this bird.

this bird seem better as me262 in doghfight,



On 25% fuel P-80 should perform the same as Me-262. Only that P-80 had a much heavier elevator :D

MandMs
03-04-2004, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by Magister__Ludi:

On 25% fuel P-80 should perform the same as Me-262. Only that P-80 had a much heavier elevator :D



Out fishing are you Crow. If you are that hungary, go down to the store.

No time to get caught on your crud bait, for the sights and sounds of Daytona are calling.



I eat the red ones last.

robban75
03-04-2004, 09:51 AM
Thanks for the answers fellas!:)



When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

r0xtilux
03-04-2004, 10:32 AM
I didn't feel the P-80's elevator response was poor at any speed. In fact, all controls seemed very responsive throughout the flight envelope.

The engine is *much* more sensitive to abuse than any of the German jets. However:

1. the engine just quits; it does not burn.

2. it can easily be re-started in the air.

It's hard to tell at first when the engine dies, because it sounds like it's still running. I suppose it's just "windmilling."

Cool plane - nice guns, great view from the cockpit, great gunsight. Feels like the F-86 from Mig Alley.

Red_Russian13
03-04-2004, 10:37 AM
Last night I downed an Me-262 (veteran) with a YP-80.

It was fun because I could for once actually keep up with her and gain some ground. And it only took a brief spurt from those 6 .50 cals. It's engine went up like nothing.

However, I'll agree with some of the other posts. The engine sucks. Of course, from what I understand, it's accurate. But I still like it.

Say, has anyone noticed that the Me-262s engines seem to go up in flames a lot easier now...I mean, when you increase the throttle? Happened three times last night...just barely increased and FLAME! I don't know.

Red Russian

Gibbage1
03-04-2004, 11:47 AM
FYI. The engine problems is in the pilots manual. You cant back down the throttle too fast or it will flame out. Also it warns not to invert for more then a few seconds or the engine will flame out.

faustnik
03-04-2004, 11:53 AM
Robban,

I am working on something that I could really use your help with. I can't PM on this forum, so could you log into the CWOS Fb forum (in my sig) and PM me please.

thanks,

faust

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7jg77.com
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

robban75
03-04-2004, 12:05 PM
Hi faustnik!

For some reason I'm unable to login on CWos.

But you can write to me on my e-mail adress. Just go to my public profile!:)

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Magister__Ludi
03-04-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by MandMs:

Originally posted by Magister__Ludi:

On 25% fuel P-80 should perform the same as Me-262. Only that P-80 had a much heavier elevator :D



Out fishing are you Crow. If you are that hungary, go down to the store.

No time to get caught on your crud bait, for the sights and sounds of Daytona are calling.




No Milo, no fishing. Read for yourself:

"This report contains the flight-test results of the longitudinal-stability and -control phase of a general flying-qualities investigation of the Lockheed P-80A airplane (Army No. 44-85099). The tests were conducted at indicated airspeeds up to 530 miles per hour (0.76 Mach number) at low altitude and up to 350 miles per hour (0.82 Mach number) at high altitude. These tests showed that the flying qualities of the airplane were in accordance with the requirements of the Army Air Forces Stability and Control Specification except for excessive elevator control forces in maneuvering flight and the inadequacy of the longitudinal trimming control at low airspeeds."

Here:

http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1947/naca-rm-a7g01/naca-rm-a7g01.pdf

huggy87
03-04-2004, 01:09 PM
I did a quick experiment last night in QMB.

4 veteran ME-262s vs. 4 veteran YP80s. Clear weather and 7500 starting altitude.

Fight 1) All 262s downed, one 80 remaining

Fight 2) All 262s downed, three 80s remaining (sadly, I was the one shot down)

Fight 3) All P-80s downed, one 262 remaining

Cardinal25
03-04-2004, 02:42 PM
AI vs. AI is not a good test.

The P-80 should win hands down over the 262.

The Hs-162 is a better fight for the P-80. I love the 162.

CWoS. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php)
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)
92nd Fighter Group (http://www.92ndfg.com)
7./JG77 (http://www.7jg77.com)

A130
03-04-2004, 06:52 PM
Contests against the AI are never a good test, but bearing in mind that I'm a very mediocre pilot on my better days (and a hazard to wingmen on worse ones), I tried a little matchup last night to celebrate my victory in getting AEP installed. Being a great fan of the 262, I had to use the YP-80, of course.

QMB, no advantage for either side, YP-80 (me) against ace ME262A1. My fuel was 50% and convergance was 300m, should anyone care.

To make a long story short, I flew circles around the guy. He tried to outclimb me on the initial merge; I landed a few hits as he did so. We climbed and turned around. Each time, I had far better acceleration and speed, even though my throttle was 80% most of the time. (90%+ was blacking me out too badly.) On my third snapshot, I hit an engine with a short burst and lit him up. He bailed, I shot him out of his chute (I can be heartless when dealing with the AI), and then I strafed the remains of his plane, noticing as I did so how stable a gun platform it was. He never had an opportunity to even fire at me, let alone hit me.

Basically, I could outclimb him and outrun him, and our turning rate seemed to be about the same. It wasn't an even fight.

I had no issues with the YP-80's engines, but when I was used to flying 262's and I treated the engines the same way -- I babied them. I may try abusing them tonight to see how they handle it.

MandMs
03-04-2004, 07:13 PM
A130 did you try the reverse, you in a 262 and AI P-80?


It should be mentioned that only 2 of the 13 YP-80s crashed because of the engine, the GE one. There is questions on the cause of the crash of Burcham's a/c. I think you will find that close to 50% of the 262 prototypes crashed. Can't say exactly since my books are a 'few' miles away.


Oh, and Ludi, alias the Crow, thanks for the compliment. Being compared to that fine upstanding gentleman Milo..... .http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



I eat the red ones last.

SkyChimp
03-04-2004, 07:17 PM
I always liked Milo, too. A fine man, indeed.

BTW, Huck, ooops Magister, forgot to mention that the heavy elevators were at extremely high altitudes (higher than is modelled in this game), at mach .822, and with an extremely forward center of gravity. At lower altitudes, with the same center of gravity, the elevators were delightfully light. And with a center of gravity that was slightly back
stick forces lightened up tremendously at all altitudes and speeds.

Regards,
SkyChimp
http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/skychimp.jpg