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DrinkinMehStella
03-21-2017, 01:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFn0vZgyenA&t=236s

I saw this video and this YouTuber worked out that if you pay for all the characters to max gear score it works out at $700.
If you play without the aid of steel packs it will take the average player who play 1-3 hours approximately 2 years to complete the gear score.
I personally when i first got my main to rep 3 spend about 50 to get enough steel to max gear score him.

Does anyone else find this a bit excessive for ubisoft to make steel that hard to get that you have to pay to win.

Whats everyone elses view?

RatedChaotic
03-21-2017, 01:54 PM
Got mine to rep 3 GS 90 in about 2 weeks and spent 0 dollars on gear boxes. I even got the game a week after release.

Plutonium Bug
03-21-2017, 02:01 PM
Multiple topics on this but I will put my view again here as well.

I think the problem with steel really starts when you play multiple characters like me. I don't have any emotes/executions or that lightning flame bs. I managed to get my main 108 on rep 5 my second is on 93 on rep 4 and my third is a rep 2 and solid blue 54.
But seriously the amount of steel that it cost to get from 102 to 108 is ridiculous. 360 steel from level 17 to 18 so 360 x 6 = 2160
From start of heroic gear = level 13 to 18 is 1575 x 6 = 9450
And not to mention you don't want to upgrade gear with the wrong stats so you will need to buy crates till you have found the right gear for your character. so lets say after opening 10 boxes you probably have most of it. 10 x 500 = 5k
So when you hit rep 3 you need around 15k to get to max gear.
And here is where the problem really starts if you want any emotes executions or effects.
Lets say you want one of each we go with the 3k ornament 5k execution and a effect (cant remember how much but lets say 5k) total of looks = 13K
So to get max gear + 1 change of every thingy = 15K + 13K = 28K
And lets say you got 2 pieces of armor with the right stats but they look horrible so you change 2 of them = +/- 1K

Total 29K for a complete character

So around 3 weeks for a complete character if you do all the orders every single day and all the 48 hour ones. (I am full time working so no chance on that).

And I think this is the real reason they need to put it up a bit so people will play with multiple characters instead of their one main.
It takes too long to get good gear and everybody is stuck with their main which makes it hard to switch around as you know you will be facing at least 1 or 2 108's and 1 or 2 far in purple and 1 blue/grey dude.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-21-2017, 02:11 PM
Pay to win implies that if you never play you can still get the best gear. You can't.

Plutonium Bug
03-21-2017, 02:13 PM
Pay to win implies that if you never play you can still get the best gear. You can't.

Very true but poll says Do You Think steel is too hard to get?
Topic Title is wrong

DrinkinMehStella
03-21-2017, 02:18 PM
Multiple topics on this but I will put my view again here as well.

I think the problem with steel really starts when you play multiple characters like me. I don't have any emotes/executions or that lightning flame bs. I managed to get my main 108 on rep 5 my second is on 93 on rep 4 and my third is a rep 2 and solid blue 54.
But seriously the amount of steel that it cost to get from 102 to 108 is ridiculous. 360 steel from level 17 to 18 so 360 x 6 = 2160
From start of heroic gear = level 13 to 18 is 1575 x 6 = 9450
And not to mention you don't want to upgrade gear with the wrong stats so you will need to buy crates till you have found the right gear for your character. so lets say after opening 10 boxes you probably have most of it. 10 x 500 = 5k
So when you hit rep 3 you need around 15k to get to max gear.
And here is where the problem really starts if you want any emotes executions or effects.
Lets say you want one of each we go with the 3k ornament 5k execution and a effect (cant remember how much but lets say 5k) total of looks = 13K
So to get max gear + 1 change of every thingy = 15K + 13K = 28K
And lets say you got 2 pieces of armor with the right stats but they look horrible so you change 2 of them = +/- 1K

Total 29K for a complete character

So around 3 weeks for a complete character if you do all the orders every single day and all the 48 hour ones. (I am full time working so no chance on that).

And I think this is the real reason they need to put it up a bit so people will play with multiple characters instead of their one main.
It takes too long to get good gear and everybody is stuck with their main which makes it hard to switch around as you know you will be facing at least 1 or 2 108's and 1 or 2 far in purple and 1 blue/grey dude.

Great answer, that pretty much sums it up. I work full time as well and everyday i try to get on more and more players have high rep mains and max gear score which makes it harder to win.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-21-2017, 02:18 PM
I always laugh at people who talk about how long it takes to build up multiple characters. You've chosen of your own free will to split time between multiple characters. This is ALWAYS going to dilute your chances of maxing out anything in the same time as others who choose to play a single character. Furthermore, you talk about how long its going to take you to do this to multiple characters because you work full time.

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that YOU chose to play multiple characters, and YOU want to get them completely maxed out. YOU can only play a small amount of time per day or per week. YOU put yourself in this position. Not the game.


Multiple topics on this but I will put my view again here as well.

I think the problem with steel really starts when you play multiple characters like me. I don't have any emotes/executions or that lightning flame bs. I managed to get my main 108 on rep 5 my second is on 93 on rep 4 and my third is a rep 2 and solid blue 54.
But seriously the amount of steel that it cost to get from 102 to 108 is ridiculous. 360 steel from level 17 to 18 so 360 x 6 = 2160
From start of heroic gear = level 13 to 18 is 1575 x 6 = 9450
And not to mention you don't want to upgrade gear with the wrong stats so you will need to buy crates till you have found the right gear for your character. so lets say after opening 10 boxes you probably have most of it. 10 x 500 = 5k
So when you hit rep 3 you need around 15k to get to max gear.
And here is where the problem really starts if you want any emotes executions or effects.
Lets say you want one of each we go with the 3k ornament 5k execution and a effect (cant remember how much but lets say 5k) total of looks = 13K
So to get max gear + 1 change of every thingy = 15K + 13K = 28K
And lets say you got 2 pieces of armor with the right stats but they look horrible so you change 2 of them = +/- 1K

Total 29K for a complete character

So around 3 weeks for a complete character if you do all the orders every single day and all the 48 hour ones. (I am full time working so no chance on that).

And I think this is the real reason they need to put it up a bit so people will play with multiple characters instead of their one main.
It takes too long to get good gear and everybody is stuck with their main which makes it hard to switch around as you know you will be facing at least 1 or 2 108's and 1 or 2 far in purple and 1 blue/grey dude.

It sums up that you're a completionist who doesn't have the tools to be one. Stop crying about how little time you have to play and how long its going to take. That's EVERY game available. You don't just get a trophy for showing up. Furthermore, winning has zero to do with actually getting upgrades in gear and emotes. Playing does.

Great answer, that pretty much sums it up. I work full time as well and everyday i try to get on more and more players have high rep mains and max gear score which makes it harder to win.

Sgt Goob
03-21-2017, 02:19 PM
Pay to win implies that if you never play you can still get the best gear. You can't.

Can you not?
What do you need to get the best gear? you need your Gear score to increase.

You can do this on a level 1 if you pay enough. It only costs Salvage & Steel to enhance gear.

So yes, you can grind away to Rep 2-3 where you can start getting better drops but you can also just buy crap loads of pieces of armour, break them down, then use salvage to enhance your crap items, then the next items you get, are a higher Gear score, and off you go....

if you spent enough, you could easily be a lv1 character with 108 Gear score?

DrinkinMehStella
03-21-2017, 02:20 PM
Very true but poll says Do You Think steel is too hard to get?
Topic Title is wrong

sorry about that, i tried to edit the title but it wouldn't let me.

DrinkinMehStella
03-21-2017, 02:25 PM
Can you not?
What do you need to get the best gear? you need your Gear score to increase.

You can do this on a level 1 if you pay enough. It only costs Salvage & Steel to enhance gear.

So yes, you can grind away to Rep 2-3 where you can start getting better drops but you can also just buy crap loads of pieces of armour, break them down, then use salvage to enhance your crap items, then the next items you get, are a higher Gear score, and off you go....

if you spent enough, you could easily be a lv1 character with 108 Gear score?

No you can only be gear score 108 after rep 3 or above. You need all heroic gear max to get to 108 and you cant get heroic gear in drops till rep 3. Rep 1 and 2 will drop you rare gear only and can only get a gear score of 72 until rep 3

xXl Plan B lXx
03-21-2017, 02:30 PM
I would assume that you didn't even read the post you just looked at the poll? The OP CLEARLY says pay to win.


Very true but poll says Do You Think steel is too hard to get?
Topic Title is wrong

xXl Plan B lXx
03-21-2017, 02:32 PM
You've clearly never actually played the game if you believe that at Reputation 1 you can have a gear score of 108

Reputation 1 - 36
Reputation 2 - 72
Reputation 3 - 108


Can you not?
What do you need to get the best gear? you need your Gear score to increase.

You can do this on a level 1 if you pay enough. It only costs Salvage & Steel to enhance gear.

So yes, you can grind away to Rep 2-3 where you can start getting better drops but you can also just buy crap loads of pieces of armour, break them down, then use salvage to enhance your crap items, then the next items you get, are a higher Gear score, and off you go....

if you spent enough, you could easily be a lv1 character with 108 Gear score?

DrExtrem
03-21-2017, 02:32 PM
To a certain extent - yes.

Gear is an important factor and your chances to get the right gear is by far bigger, if you buy additional steel.


Emotes and ornaments however, do not habe any gameplay value.

Gray360UK
03-21-2017, 02:40 PM
It's all relative to how much time and effort you believe you need to put into this game. A lot of lazy people seem to believe a game that has been out for 4 weeks should have already provided them with enough Steel to have every single thing in the game unlocked. The game was clearly intended to be a long term project for the player, with DLCs that release what, every 3 months? So a year of play at least? And here we are, just one month in, and already people feel sad because they don't have every type of plant pot decoration it's possible to have on their Nobushis straw hat, and can't wave their sword in 5 different ways, only 2. Really .... ? :rolleyes:

xXl Plan B lXx
03-21-2017, 03:47 PM
No. You MUST play the game to get the higher gear. If you're saying that someone who has played 3 days and didn't buy steel is at a disadvantage to someone who has played 3 days and did buy gear, then sure. The problem here is your no longer talking about pay to win. You're talking about income disparity.

Players will always be at different levels of play and fiscally as well. My son and two friends play for honor. So I will use the four of us as examples of why pay to win isn't an actual thing.

TripleH (29,000 a yr)
Warfar3 (29,000 a yr)
Ironwolf (44,000 a yr)
Plan B (84,000 a yr)

TripleH and Warfar3 both bought steel when the game came out. Both spent a good portion of their money on Champion Status and upgrades in non-gear related purchases like emotes and ornaments. Ironwolf and I did not buy anything. TripleH and Warfar3 both have lower gear scores than do Ironwolf and I. Why? Because they play less than we do. They are both single and have more disposable income than Ironwolf and I do so they could afford to drop money on steel. I however cannot afford to do that. So I didn't.

Just looking at my scenario you can see that the two players who paid money to get steel don't have an advantage. They're actually not even on par with myself of Ironwolf. Pay to win implies that all you have to do is spend money and you're on the same level as someone who plays consistently. It's a fallacy. You CANNOT pay to win this game. You must play.

That leads me to the root of your point. That people who spend money will be ahead of those who just grind it out. That's life. Get over it. People have more money than you do. People have more time than you do. Get over it. Life's not fair. In the end, you can buy all the best gear in the world, but when you're toe to toe with someone, the gear is going to only do so much for you. At some point skill is going to settle in and you're either good enough or you're not, because in the big picture, the first few reputations is the only point where gear is at its biggest disparity.


To a certain extent - yes.

Gear is an important factor and your chances to get the right gear is by far bigger, if you buy additional steel.

Emotes and ornaments however, do not habe any gameplay value.

Dry.Fish
03-21-2017, 03:48 PM
Please jump off the bandwagon

DrinkinMehStella
03-21-2017, 03:49 PM
It's all relative to how much time and effort you believe you need to put into this game. A lot of lazy people seem to believe a game that has been out for 4 weeks should have already provided them with enough Steel to have every single thing in the game unlocked. The game was clearly intended to be a long term project for the player, with DLCs that release what, every 3 months? So a year of play at least? And here we are, just one month in, and already people feel sad because they don't have every type of plant pot decoration it's possible to have on their Nobushis straw hat, and can't wave their sword in 5 different ways, only 2. Really .... ? :rolleyes:

i made this thread not to see who had enough time on there hand to play, i just wanted some opinions on if people thought for honor was pay to win or if the steel system was fair or not etc. obviously gaining loads of steel will not happen over night.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-21-2017, 03:54 PM
Again you're using "Pay to win" and then "Steel Generation" interchangeably. That's a fools errand.

The game IS NOT pay to win. It's very clear. That should not be something you're even entertaining as you MUST play the game to get to the higher gear. You have to play every character to be able to do it. You CANNOT just log in, buy top end gear and run around like a noob in 108 gear at Reputation 0 Level 1. It CANNOT BE DONE.

Steel generation on the other hand is a viable topic. I think it's just fine considering you can make about 7000 steel a week. I don't make that much per week, but it is the cap.


i made this thread not to see who had enough time on there hand to play, i just wanted some opinions on if people thought for honor was pay to win or if the steel system was fair or not etc. obviously gaining loads of steel will not happen over night.

DrinkinMehStella
03-21-2017, 03:57 PM
No. You MUST play the game to get the higher gear. If you're saying that someone who has played 3 days and didn't buy steel is at a disadvantage to someone who has played 3 days and did buy gear, then sure. The problem here is your no longer talking about pay to win. You're talking about income disparity.

Players will always be at different levels of play and fiscally as well. My son and two friends play for honor. So I will use the four of us as examples of why pay to win isn't an actual thing.

TripleH (29,000 a yr)
Warfar3 (29,000 a yr)
Ironwolf (44,000 a yr)
Plan B (84,000 a yr)

TripleH and Warfar3 both bought steel when the game came out. Both spent a good portion of their money on Champion Status and upgrades in non-gear related purchases like emotes and ornaments. Ironwolf and I did not buy anything. TripleH and Warfar3 both have lower gear scores than do Ironwolf and I. Why? Because they play less than we do. They are both single and have more disposable income than Ironwolf and I do so they could afford to drop money on steel. I however cannot afford to do that. So I didn't.

Just looking at my scenario you can see that the two players who paid money to get steel don't have an advantage. They're actually not even on par with myself of Ironwolf. Pay to win implies that all you have to do is spend money and you're on the same level as someone who plays consistently. It's a fallacy. You CANNOT pay to win this game. You must play.

That leads me to the root of your point. That people who spend money will be ahead of those who just grind it out. That's life. Get over it. People have more money than you do. People have more time than you do. Get over it. Life's not fair. In the end, you can buy all the best gear in the world, but when you're toe to toe with someone, the gear is going to only do so much for you. At some point skill is going to settle in and you're either good enough or you're not, because in the big picture, the first few reputations is the only point where gear is at its biggest disparity.

This has nothing to do with income, i have enough income to buy whatever i want in the game its about self control and wasting money for a game ill probably get bored of soon, i really don't know what income has to do with it. What im saying is do you have to pay in order to be good in 4v4 game because i guarantee that if i went into a dominion now with a level 1 zero gear score then i would get destroyed all the time. The quicker you get 108 the better you will do in 4v4 hence everyone moaning about gear score and MM.

Gray360UK
03-21-2017, 03:57 PM
i made this thread not to see who had enough time on there hand to play, i just wanted some opinions on if people thought for honor was pay to win or if the steel system was fair or not etc. obviously gaining loads of steel will not happen over night.

Fair enough, but like I said, it's still relative / subjective. What is too long, too hard, and so on?
Pay to Win, no, but to have a shortcut, yes. They are very different things. You cannot pay to get something I can't get without paying, or to kill me with something I can't kill you with.
Pay to shortcut isn't a bad thing imho, it allows people without so much time to get on a level footing with people who have all the time in the world.
What's missing is people taking personal responsibility for their own lack of time / patience. This is not the games fault.
I think the Steel system is very fair.
The number of free chests avaialable for story mode completion and the amount of daily steel from short / easy to complete orders (600 per day) allows even a fairly casual gamer to have at least one very well equipped character of their choice, even though we are only one month in to what was always intended to be a game with long term goals for the playerbase.

Plutonium Bug
03-21-2017, 03:59 PM
No. You MUST play the game to get the higher gear. If you're saying that someone who has played 3 days and didn't buy steel is at a disadvantage to someone who has played 3 days and did buy gear, then sure. The problem here is your no longer talking about pay to win. You're talking about income disparity.

Players will always be at different levels of play and fiscally as well. My son and two friends play for honor. So I will use the four of us as examples of why pay to win isn't an actual thing.

TripleH (29,000 a yr)
Warfar3 (29,000 a yr)
Ironwolf (44,000 a yr)
Plan B (84,000 a yr)

TripleH and Warfar3 both bought steel when the game came out. Both spent a good portion of their money on Champion Status and upgrades in non-gear related purchases like emotes and ornaments. Ironwolf and I did not buy anything. TripleH and Warfar3 both have lower gear scores than do Ironwolf and I. Why? Because they play less than we do. They are both single and have more disposable income than Ironwolf and I do so they could afford to drop money on steel. I however cannot afford to do that. So I didn't.

Just looking at my scenario you can see that the two players who paid money to get steel don't have an advantage. They're actually not even on par with myself of Ironwolf. Pay to win implies that all you have to do is spend money and you're on the same level as someone who plays consistently. It's a fallacy. You CANNOT pay to win this game. You must play.

That leads me to the root of your point. That people who spend money will be ahead of those who just grind it out. That's life. Get over it. People have more money than you do. People have more time than you do. Get over it. Life's not fair. In the end, you can buy all the best gear in the world, but when you're toe to toe with someone, the gear is going to only do so much for you. At some point skill is going to settle in and you're either good enough or you're not, because in the big picture, the first few reputations is the only point where gear is at its biggest disparity.

You are so wrong

If they bought steel and waited till rep 3 they will have 108

thanks

DrinkinMehStella
03-21-2017, 04:02 PM
No. You MUST play the game to get the higher gear. If you're saying that someone who has played 3 days and didn't buy steel is at a disadvantage to someone who has played 3 days and did buy gear, then sure. The problem here is your no longer talking about pay to win. You're talking about income disparity.

Players will always be at different levels of play and fiscally as well. My son and two friends play for honor. So I will use the four of us as examples of why pay to win isn't an actual thing.

TripleH (29,000 a yr)
Warfar3 (29,000 a yr)
Ironwolf (44,000 a yr)
Plan B (84,000 a yr)

TripleH and Warfar3 both bought steel when the game came out. Both spent a good portion of their money on Champion Status and upgrades in non-gear related purchases like emotes and ornaments. Ironwolf and I did not buy anything. TripleH and Warfar3 both have lower gear scores than do Ironwolf and I. Why? Because they play less than we do. They are both single and have more disposable income than Ironwolf and I do so they could afford to drop money on steel. I however cannot afford to do that. So I didn't.

Just looking at my scenario you can see that the two players who paid money to get steel don't have an advantage. They're actually not even on par with myself of Ironwolf. Pay to win implies that all you have to do is spend money and you're on the same level as someone who plays consistently. It's a fallacy. You CANNOT pay to win this game. You must play.

That leads me to the root of your point. That people who spend money will be ahead of those who just grind it out. That's life. Get over it. People have more money than you do. People have more time than you do. Get over it. Life's not fair. In the end, you can buy all the best gear in the world, but when you're toe to toe with someone, the gear is going to only do so much for you. At some point skill is going to settle in and you're either good enough or you're not, because in the big picture, the first few reputations is the only point where gear is at its biggest disparity.

This has nothing to do with income, i have enough income to buy whatever i want in the game its about self control and wasting money for a game ill probably get bored of soon, i really don't know what income has to do with it. What im saying is do you have to pay in order to be good in 4v4 game because i guarantee that if i went into a dominion now with a level 1 zero gear score then i would get destroyed all the time. The quicker you get 108 the better you will do in 4v4 hence everyone moaning about gear score and MM.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-21-2017, 06:05 PM
How can you seriously sit here and talk about Pay to Win as a viable component of the game and not think that income, or more specifically disposable income has nothing to do with it? You're saying you have the money to buy steel and you don't use it, and in the same breath you're saying that you don't have enough steel to get what you want and you're not happy about it. Ubisoft has provided you two options to correct that missing steel issue, but you don't like them. They are play more or pay more.


I have enough income to buy whatever i want in the game its about self control and wasting money for a game ill probably get bored of soon, i really don't know what income has to do with it.

No. You do not have to pay to get good. That's just silly. It implies that skill has nothing to do with the game and you're trying to trivialize that part of it. In fact you're only myopically looking at the 4v4 component of the game as a link to "Pay to Win" and the games design clearly shows that if you're looking for a balanced playing field the best place to do it is in the 1v1 Duel option. This is where you and everyone else who cries about the lack of gear seem to miss the mark. There are game modes where gear has zero bearing on the outcome of the game. You and others, including me, don't like to duel. So you're mad you're starting with a low level character and you're feeling out geared. Use strategy. It is after all a team based game. Stick near teammates. Use the environment as your friend. Just because you're low now doesn't mean that you're low forever. In fact, every characters max level is 30. That means that 1/6th of the levels are at a low gear while 5/6ths is at 108 or near it. If you're not a 108 at or around the 5th reputation you're doing it all wrong.

What im saying is do you have to pay in order to be good in 4v4 game because i guarantee that if i went into a dominion now with a level 1 zero gear score then i would get destroyed all the time. The quicker you get 108 the better you will do in 4v4 hence everyone moaning about gear score and MM.

Its always about the money! Lets never try to kid ourselves. There is a reason that they put Micro-Transactions in games and it's not because they're expecting to make no money off them. I'm just saying that one thing (Micro-Transactions) do not have anything to do with another (Pay to Win)

This has nothing to do with income

xXl Plan B lXx
03-21-2017, 06:10 PM
Wait so they had to play to win. Interesting .... please explain to me again how pay to win exists in the game.

They played the game. They garnered skill while doing so. Once they reached a specific level, they then were able to get better gear. Your argument is flawed because you're just not able to understand that you ACTUALLY have to play to win.


You are so wrong

If they bought steel and waited till rep 3 they will have 108

thanks

DrinkinMehStella
03-21-2017, 06:17 PM
How can you seriously sit here and talk about Pay to Win as a viable component of the game and not think that income, or more specifically disposable income has nothing to do with it? You're saying you have the money to buy steel and you don't use it, and in the same breath you're saying that you don't have enough steel to get what you want and you're not happy about it. Ubisoft has provided you two options to correct that missing steel issue, but you don't like them. They are play more or pay more.



No. You do not have to pay to get good. That's just silly. It implies that skill has nothing to do with the game and you're trying to trivialize that part of it. In fact you're only myopically looking at the 4v4 component of the game as a link to "Pay to Win" and the games design clearly shows that if you're looking for a balanced playing field the best place to do it is in the 1v1 Duel option. This is where you and everyone else who cries about the lack of gear seem to miss the mark. There are game modes where gear has zero bearing on the outcome of the game. You and others, including me, don't like to duel. So you're mad you're starting with a low level character and you're feeling out geared. Use strategy. It is after all a team based game. Stick near teammates. Use the environment as your friend. Just because you're low now doesn't mean that you're low forever. In fact, every characters max level is 30. That means that 1/6th of the levels are at a low gear while 5/6ths is at 108 or near it. If you're not a 108 at or around the 5th reputation you're doing it all wrong.


Its always about the money! Lets never try to kid ourselves. There is a reason that they put Micro-Transactions in games and it's not because they're expecting to make no money off them. I'm just saying that one thing (Micro-Transactions) do not have anything to do with another (Pay to Win)

You must be a ****, your the only one getting worked up. pull your nose out of ubisofts *** and grow a pair. Im not the only one saying this, it's plastered on every for honor forum, tons of youtube videos. I asked a question not for it to be turned into an argument, you being an adult could have answered it with a simple paragraph instead of making a thing out of it. You use a level 1 and ill use my paid for 108 main and see who wins every time 4v4

DrinkinMehStella
03-21-2017, 06:19 PM
Wait so they had to play to win. Interesting .... please explain to me again how pay to win exists in the game.

They played the game. They garnered skill while doing so. Once they reached a specific level, they then were able to get better gear. Your argument is flawed because you're just not able to understand that you ACTUALLY have to play to win.

Do you know what pay to win means?

Gray360UK
03-21-2017, 06:23 PM
You are so wrong

If they bought steel and waited till rep 3 they will have 108

thanks

I'm not sure you understand your own point.

Firstly, anyone who didn't buy Steel and waited till Rep 3 will also be able to have 108.

Secondly, you cannot 'wait' for Rep 3, you have to play for many hours to get to Rep 3.

Thirdly, it is this very act of playing for many hours to get to Rep 3 that means you MUST play to win.

You cannot install the game, pay some money, and win. You will be level 1 with a maximum gear score of 36.

Pay to win is when the maximum gear score I can reach is 108 through normal play and you can pay to have 208 gear. This is not a thing.
You can pay for 108 gear all you like, my 108 geared character, who got there without buying Steel, will still kick your arse ;)

Sh1kuren
03-21-2017, 06:33 PM
Just do daily quests and find more free time in your life. Nobody forces to buy costumes and emotes first.

Vingrask
03-21-2017, 06:33 PM
It's all relative to how much time and effort you believe you need to put into this game. A lot of lazy people seem to believe a game that has been out for 4 weeks should have already provided them with enough Steel to have every single thing in the game unlocked. The game was clearly intended to be a long term project for the player, with DLCs that release what, every 3 months? So a year of play at least? And here we are, just one month in, and already people feel sad because they don't have every type of plant pot decoration it's possible to have on their Nobushis straw hat, and can't wave their sword in 5 different ways, only 2. Really .... ? :rolleyes:

And this annoy me a lot.
I remember when I started play arcade games in 90's: we doesn't even had a command list! Everything had to be discovered everytime we back there. Today players have everything on their homes, great games to play for long time, and they want to cut the progress for what?

I don't understand. I played the same console games for years, without patch, without DLCs, trading with friends because nobody could afford different ones, and I have so great times and amazing memories...

xXl Plan B lXx
03-21-2017, 06:33 PM
I'd ask you if YOU know what it means. It's not overly complicated.

You're assuming that by paying to get gear you're going to get better. You're not.
You're assuming that by purchasing gear you're going to get something sooner than someone else. You're not.
You're assuming that by playing to get to Reputation 3 and then buying gear that the players not getting any better during that time. They Are.
You're assuming that having a 108 gear score you're automatically better than everyone else you're playing against. You're not.

See there is the problem with your logic. It's flawed. Furthermore, Pay to Win implies that only those people who pay will win. I've provided an example where a player payed for steel and didn't win, but it didn't fit your model so you just tried to spin it. You've then tried to double down and point out how long it takes to get the elite armor, that has NOTHING to do with your skill.

You keep trying to throw more and more crap on the pile and then when it doesn't fit because I've shown why it's not the case you then try to switch to another straw-man argument. Players MUST PLAY TO WIN. It's that simple. You CANNOT get the best gear in the game without playing the game, and THAT is why the game is not PAY TO WIN. It's Play to win.


Do you know what pay to win means?

xXl Plan B lXx
03-21-2017, 06:37 PM
I think it's funny that you're able to establish my state of mind by text. Emotion is provided via text by the reader not the writer, so what you're really saying is that you're getting frustrated with me constantly poking holes in your uneducated theories. You've resulted to name calling and retorts that aren't even within the initial context of the topic.

You've then followed that up with a supporting argument that says "Everyone else is doing it too!" Just because everyone else is stupid doesn't make it okay for you to follow along and be stupid as well. Then you doubled down on stupid by bringing in matchmaking into your argument. Matchmaking has nothing to do with pay to win. Feel free to come back when you ACTUALLY have something to support your argument, because right now you're just running down a rabbit hole of topics that aren't about play to win.


You must be a ****, your the only one getting worked up. pull your nose out of ubisofts *** and grow a pair. Im not the only one saying this, it's plastered on every for honor forum, tons of youtube videos. I asked a question not for it to be turned into an argument, you being an adult could have answered it with a simple paragraph instead of making a thing out of it. You use a level 1 and ill use my paid for 108 main and see who wins every time 4v4

P.S. If I could pay to win my level 1 character would be even with yours. Move along.

guor6800
03-22-2017, 12:24 PM
Do you know what pay to win means?

I am having the same problem mate. No steel and more importantly no time to farm steel. But it is what it is. I am no college guy and need to work to get most things. So i wont throw my hard -earned money in to buying steel. My main was 108 at rep 3. Did not throw any steel for any equipment pro rep 3. If you decide to level - up a new char by the time you get rep 3 you ll have plenty of steel not necessarily to reach 108 but at least be competitive (gear - wise speaking) .

It would have been pay to win in the case that a guy installs the game today and in an hour is at 108 item level. That wont ever happen. So its not pay to win. Those microtransactions have no real impact on gameplay. Its not like you can get more gear than i do or a "better" item level. Its 108 for everyone.

If you have ever play LineageII on pvp server you would know what pay2win means.

DrinkinMehStella
03-22-2017, 12:52 PM
I think it's funny that you're able to establish my state of mind by text. Emotion is provided via text by the reader not the writer, so what you're really saying is that you're getting frustrated with me constantly poking holes in your uneducated theories. You've resulted to name calling and retorts that aren't even within the initial context of the topic.

You've then followed that up with a supporting argument that says "Everyone else is doing it too!" Just because everyone else is stupid doesn't make it okay for you to follow along and be stupid as well. Then you doubled down on stupid by bringing in matchmaking into your argument. Matchmaking has nothing to do with pay to win. Feel free to come back when you ACTUALLY have something to support your argument, because right now you're just running down a rabbit hole of topics that aren't about play to win.



P.S. If I could pay to win my level 1 character would be even with yours. Move along.

Your so off the point its unreal its like you don't understand the question. It's not a theory you donut its a fact, you pay more money for packs you get better odds in the game. Fifa you pay more money you get better players which enhance your game-play. you could be the best player but level 1 no gear score and if you went up against someone with less time played and useless but gear 108 because its been paid for then all they gotta do is get revenge easily and spam the zone. i get get revenge after revenge after revenge so easily, if i was level 1 i would die way before i get it, so yes it is pay to win, i went from gear score 55 to 108 in half an hour and then i was top in every lobby. pay to win doesn't mean you HAVE to spend money it means that you spending money is heavily influenced in the game. Basically the point is if your a completionist then be prepared to spend a lot of money or play for a long time.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-22-2017, 02:09 PM
Spending money being heavily influenced in the game DOES NOT mean pay to win. There are many games that have micro-transactions and they're not pay to win, and this game is among them. You don't like the fact that people can spend money and you don't want to. Fine. Get over it. But the fact that you think its pay to win is silly. Everything that you wrote here has NOTHING to do with money. Someone who has 108 gear can do that without spending money. That's what you're just not grasping. Furthermore, if it were pay to win a level 1 character could buy 108 gear and they can't. You're spinning your wheels and countering your own arguments.

As for your completionist comment it's foolish. The entire point of the game isn't to complete every character. The developers even stated as such this week. They compared it to World of Warcraft. That you just don't have enough time to have high end gear on all the characters. Furthermore, that you'd use it as part of your argument shows your lack of understanding of what we're talking about.


Your so off the point its unreal its like you don't understand the question. It's not a theory you donut its a fact, you pay more money for packs you get better odds in the game. Fifa you pay more money you get better players which enhance your game-play. you could be the best player but level 1 no gear score and if you went up against someone with less time played and useless but gear 108 because its been paid for then all they gotta do is get revenge easily and spam the zone. i get get revenge after revenge after revenge so easily, if i was level 1 i would die way before i get it, so yes it is pay to win, i went from gear score 55 to 108 in half an hour and then i was top in every lobby. pay to win doesn't mean you HAVE to spend money it means that you spending money is heavily influenced in the game. Basically the point is if your a completionist then be prepared to spend a lot of money or play for a long time.

Blasto95
03-22-2017, 02:31 PM
This thread at this point..is beyond pointless...Clearly it has been explained that this game IS NOT pay to win. In fact it has been explained numerous times and not just on this forum. The fact that people are to lazy and impatient to grind out steel for their fluff does not make this game pay to win in any remote way. End of discussion.

Regarding how much steel you make in comparison to the cost of the fluff? Sure you can go ahead and argue that. I think its pretty pointless, I mean take a second and just look at Rainbow Six Siege. You make less money or credits or whatever in that game then you do here (at least last I played) and yet a new character costs 25,000 in that game. And that price has not changed from their first release of characters. Just wait until they release new heroes in For Honor. I would be shocked if its any less than 10,000 steel. So Im sorry if you think steel is to hard to come by, clearly Ubisoft likes it this way...because you know they're a business.

Alchemist..
03-22-2017, 03:24 PM
I cant understand how people dont see this sick conversion rate. 5k in shop is like half hour of work for minimum wage. To grind 5k in game in best scenario where you do daily orders 600 and another 400 by 48h orders and matches you need at least 1h. So u need grind like stupid 5h play modes you dont like, kill minions, play with chars i dont want to play, play with bots, deal with afkers etc. Do i have any reason to grind that hard for dozens of hours every week And deny myself from heaving fun? They just giving you reasons to buy it in every corner instead of playing to get it. I dont have nothing to grinding but amount of hours you need repeat same scenario to get 1 simple animation is to big for me and default game stuff is still not that much expensive but extra weekly cosmetisc are more than 100% higher priced so we can expect soon new mythic outfits with cost around 30-50 with is MONTHS of grinding to get them. Thats will be sick as ****. But i guess peoples like plan b will still defend ubi bc "in wow you need grind whole months to get 1 item".

Blasto95
03-22-2017, 04:13 PM
No you dont need to gring one whole month to get one item because you dont need that one item. That's your problem that you want that item. That is not a game design fault. Thats your fault for wanting that expensive item and not wanting to spend or have the time to attain it. I dont care about all the fluff except like one or two things so I KNOW what im working towards. I wont be spending money for them, so Ill be patient and earn them. You cant wait, or just want it handed to you for free. That's not how a business operates.

RatedChaotic
03-22-2017, 04:17 PM
Most people have different views on what Pay to win is.....I am one that believes if I can spend real money to get a piece of gear that has better stats than my current one......its pay to win. Level 1 players can do it. Rep 10 players can do it. I can use real money to purchase gear at any level for a better advantage.....thats pay to win.

No where in the definition does it say use money to buy the highend gear. It just says to gain an advantage. 2 new players both have level 1s and have never played a match. One buys crates one does not. They go into a custom game with gs on. Whos got the advantage?

Sorry guys Its pay to win.

Prophit618
03-22-2017, 04:19 PM
Is the concept of prestige items really all that foreign to so many people?
Sometimes I think Plan B and Gray and Rated Chaotic are the only sensible people on this site. Fortunately, every now and then I see posts by people like Blasto up above me here and it restores some of my faith in thinking rational humans.
You aren't owed these items. They are explicitly made prohibitively expensive to keep them special. And like in any game nowadays, they are also used as a supplementary income source, a way for you to pay money to get something special if you want to, without being able to buy yourself unfair advantages. It shouldn't take you years to get every possible emote and ornament and etc, it should really be pretty much impossible.
Do you folks go to the store, see a designer piece of clothing, and then ***** about how they want so much money for it when you only make X? Because that's what you're doing here. Only instead of having to go to work to eventually earn enough disposable income to get what you want, you have to instead just play the game you ostensibly liked enough to pay money for. That's called being a spoiled

Blasto95
03-22-2017, 06:14 PM
Most people have different views on what Pay to win is.....I am one that believes if I can spend real money to get a piece of gear that has better stats than my current one......its pay to win. Level 1 players can do it. Rep 10 players can do it. I can use real money to purchase gear at any level for a better advantage.....thats pay to win.

No where in the definition does it say use money to buy the highend gear. It just says to gain an advantage. 2 new players both have level 1s and have never played a match. One buys crates one does not. They go into a custom game with gs on. Whos got the advantage?

Sorry guys Its pay to win.

So you would call Rainbow Six Siege pay to win?

xXl Plan B lXx
03-22-2017, 07:01 PM
So I'm curious how you look at games. Can you give me some other games that you consider pay to win? or some games that you don't for me to get some perspective on how you're assessing this pay to win paint brush.


Most people have different views on what Pay to win is.....I am one that believes if I can spend real money to get a piece of gear that has better stats than my current one......its pay to win. Level 1 players can do it. Rep 10 players can do it. I can use real money to purchase gear at any level for a better advantage.....thats pay to win.

No where in the definition does it say use money to buy the highend gear. It just says to gain an advantage. 2 new players both have level 1s and have never played a match. One buys crates one does not. They go into a custom game with gs on. Whos got the advantage?

Sorry guys Its pay to win.

teksuo1
03-22-2017, 07:12 PM
it's more like "Pay to save 3-4 days of mindless shameful gear-less dominion losses until you got your rep 3 and stack some steel"

id either slightly increase steel gains OR allow to trade in scraps for steel at a bad ratio.

Prophit618
03-22-2017, 07:35 PM
allow to trade in scraps for steel at a bad ratio.

I really wish we could do this. I'd take a 10k:1 exchange rate at this point just to have something to with the constantly growing stack of scrap i've got.

RatedChaotic
03-22-2017, 11:07 PM
So I'm curious how you look at games. Can you give me some other games that you consider pay to win? or some games that you don't for me to get some perspective on how you're assessing this pay to win paint brush.

I'm sure your smart enough to figure it out. I posted what I believe. Theres no need for me to keep repeating myself. ��

xXl Plan B lXx
03-22-2017, 11:44 PM
You posted games you believe are pay to win? Where? Did I Miss it?


I'm sure your smart enough to figure it out. I posted what I believe. Theres no need for me to keep repeating myself. ��

ArlianDeBias
03-23-2017, 02:53 AM
For Honour is not in any way Pay to Win, it's more Pay to Get There Faster.

I got to Gear score 108 on my Peacekeeper by Prestige 4. I haven't bought any Steel packs from Ubisoft, I got my steel simply from playing the game. I'm sure if you can do it faster and get to 108 by Prestige 3.

If anyone can get there simply by playing the game and completing orders, how is the game Pay to Win?

lNogardl
03-23-2017, 02:58 AM
I really don't care about gear scores since I barely play any dm or domination, but I would appreciate better amounts of steel rewards.

Blasto95
03-23-2017, 12:33 PM
I'm sure your smart enough to figure it out. I posted what I believe. Theres no need for me to keep repeating myself. ��

Once again...do you consider Rainbow Six Siege pay to win? because by your definition it is.

Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb

DrinkinMehStella
03-23-2017, 01:28 PM
Long debate short, In my personal opinion i think its pay to win based on my thoughts discussed on previous pages, like some one mentioned everyone has their own views on pay to win. If someone can find me some proper proof on the exact meaning of pay to win and how for honour is not then ill hold my hands up and say i was wrong, but all this debate is based on opinions not facts.

RatedChaotic
03-23-2017, 01:37 PM
You posted games you believe are pay to win? Where? Did I Miss it?

Theres no need for me to post names of titles. I posted what I believe a few posts back.

RatedChaotic
03-23-2017, 01:40 PM
Once again...do you consider Rainbow Six Siege pay to win? because by your definition it is.

Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb

Funny how you think my defintion is dumb dumb dumb. But when you google the definition of pay to win. Thats what it says. lol

DrinkinMehStella
03-23-2017, 01:43 PM
pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

Source: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

so i wasn't wrong.

Gray360UK
03-23-2017, 02:03 PM
Essentially what you are all still arguing about becomes redundant after a couple of weeks of play, so to get so fixated on definitions of pay to win is a bit irrelevant.

You all seem reasonably intelligent, so you know you can't pay for anything that is not available to non-payers. That is concrete fact.
You also know that non-payers, by now, have 108 geared characters, and so 'paying to win' is now a redundant concept.
At worst you could say For Honor was Pay to Win in week 1 or 2 (see below additional issue).
The idea that someone buys their 108 gear and then wins is now laughable.

The above definition had a quote accompanying it, by the way:
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob! "
This is not the case in For Honor now, if it ever was.
Again, possibly applicable in week 1 or 2, certainly not now (see below additional issue).
Good luck beating 'everyone' now because you spent 400 bucks.

The additional issue with For Honor though, which is very important, is that you can spend all the money you want in week 1 or 2, but if you havent played enough to get to Rep 3, that money will only buy you inferior items to someone who has levelled to Rep 3. They will be getting better items than you just from end of round drops than all the money in China can buy you.

Arguably you must play first before you can pay to have an advantange, and also arguably anyone who has levelled to Rep 3 and completed the Story Campaign / Events / Received end of round Scavenger Crates etc has the resources to get the same gear for free that the guy paying is going to get.

Case in point. I opened several Scavenger Crates to try to get the right chest for my Warden. I used up most of my stock of them and finally got the one I wanted. In literally the next Dominion match I played about 30 minutes later, the exact same chest with the exact same stats dropped at the end of the round, no lie. Had I payed for those crates to get that chest believing I have 'payed to win' I would only be wearing the same chest as the Warden who got it as a drop at the end of a Dominion match.

secrecy274
03-23-2017, 02:08 PM
If high(er) tier gear were locked behind a paywall it would be pay-to-win, however, at most you can pay-to-get-it-faster, which is not the same as pay-to-win.

guor6800
03-23-2017, 02:08 PM
Long debate short, In my personal opinion i think its pay to win based on my thoughts discussed on previous pages, like some one mentioned everyone has their own views on pay to win. If someone can find me some proper proof on the exact meaning of pay to win and how for honour is not then ill hold my hands up and say i was wrong, but all this debate is based on opinions not facts.

Pay to win imo means that you can give real currency to get something in the game that is not obtainable in any other way. For me it would have been pay to win if you could get more than 108 item level by paying real money.In some games those guys were used to called donators. The only advantage you have in FH with paying for something is just time saving. Nothing more.

I can get your points but with all due respect i disagree. You are a completionist as you said in another post and i can understand that seems overwhelming to get 12 chars rep 3+ and 108 il without paying.By paying you are just gonna speed up the process of achieving this. You cannot win with paying.

Ps. Stay strong with those things happening there mate. My condolences.

RatedChaotic
03-23-2017, 02:11 PM
Essentially what you are all still arguing about becomes redundant after a couple of weeks of play, so to get so fixated on definitions of pay to win is a bit irrelevant.

You all seem reasonably intelligent, so you know you can't pay for anything that is not available to non-payers. That is concrete fact.
You also know that non-payers, by now, have 108 geared characters, and so 'paying to win' is now a redundant concept.
At worst you could say For Honor was Pay to Win in week 1 or 2 (see below additional issue).
The idea that someone buys their 108 gear and then wins is now laughable.

The above definition had a quote accompanying it, by the way:
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob! "
This is not the case in For Honor now, if it ever was.
Again, possibly applicabale in week 1 or 2, certainly not now (see below additional issue).
Good luck beating 'everyone' now because you spent 400 bucks.

The additional issue with For Honor though, which is very important, is that you can spend all the money you want in week 1 or 2, but if you havent played enough to get to Rep 3, that money will only buy you inferior items to someone who has levelled to Rep 3. They will be getting better items than you just from end of round drops than all the money in China can buy you.

Arguably you must play first before you can pay to have an advantange, and also arguably anyone who has levelled to Rep 3 and complete the Story Campaign / Events / Received end of round Scavenger Crates has the resources to get the same gear for free that the guy paying is going to get.

Case in point. I opened several Scavenger Crates to try to get the right chest for my Warden. I used up most of my stock of them and finally got the one I wanted. In literally the next Dominion match I played about 30 minutes later, the exact same chest with the exact same stats dropped at the end of the round, no lie.

Wrong. Whether you believe its irrelevant or not you can use money to get better gear at any level and just because you think non payers have 108 gs does not mean this game isnt pay to win. If I can use real money to get a better chest piece (at any lvl) in my eyes its pay to win. I'm using money to get better gear not playing to get better gear. I can melt every piece of dropped gear and use real money to gear my toon out. But ya this game isnt pay to win.

Gray360UK
03-23-2017, 02:30 PM
Wrong.

Not going to argue with you on that point.
Someone who has levelled up will have access to the same / better gear than someone who pays for gear at level 1.
It's solid fact, not opinion.
You love your pedantics and your definitions but don't apply any common sense or in game experience to them.
You're just trolling people with made up scenarios that aren't based on reality in order to 'win' this 'argument'.
Shame you can't pay to do so, eh? ;)

DrinkinMehStella
03-23-2017, 02:35 PM
There are several sides to this argument which not all are wrong, i wasn't wrong in my definition. I started this thread to show a vid saying if you wanted to complete the game it would take 2.5 years to complete without spending or $700 i just wanted views not a debate.

RatedChaotic
03-23-2017, 02:39 PM
I can melt every piece of dropped gear in this game and then just use real money to gear out my character at any level. But ya this game isnt pay to win. OK

guor6800
03-23-2017, 02:41 PM
Wrong. Whether you believe its irrelevant or not you can use money to get better gear at any level and just because you think non payers have 108 gs does not mean this game isnt pay to win. If I can use real money to get a better chest piece (at any lvl) in my eyes its pay to win. I'm using money to get better gear not playing to get better gear. I can melt every piece of dropped gear and use real money to gear my toon out. But ya this game isnt pay to win.

-So you gave 5 dollars and got yourself a pretty nice blade for rep 0. You get it to lvl 7 by upgrading with paid currency.
-I am rep 3 haven't paid a thing and got the same blade upgraded at 18 lvl.

How exactly did you pay to win?

RatedChaotic
03-23-2017, 02:50 PM
See previous post

Gray360UK
03-23-2017, 02:57 PM
Wrong. Whether you believe its irrelevant or not you can use money to get better gear at any level and just because you think non payers have 108 gs does not mean this game isnt pay to win. If I can use real money to get a better chest piece (at any lvl) in my eyes its pay to win. I'm using money to get better gear not playing to get better gear. I can melt every piece of dropped gear and use real money to gear my toon out. But ya this game isnt pay to win.

'Better' than what?
Not better than mine.
Not better than someone who has played more.
Not better than someone who got the same chest from a drop at the end of a match.
Better than what you had 5 minutes earlier, yes.
Better than everyone else so that you win, no.
Colossal difference, surprised you can't see it.

If you are level 1 you can get better than other level 1's, that is as pay to win as this game gets. You cannot get better than Rep 1+ players.
You cannot pay to win against them, and matchmaking will not be kind enough to place you only against other level 1's.
Again, you rely on fantasy scenarios that do not actually exist in this game.

At Rep 3 once you have 108 there is no better.
You can pay all the money in the world at that point, you will neither have better gear than anyone else, nor will you win.
Yet again, this is the reality vs your fantasy scenario where people are getting 'better' gear with money, when that is actually not possible.

RatedChaotic
03-23-2017, 03:08 PM
'Better' than what?
Not better than mine.
Not better than someone who has played more.
Not better than someone who got the same chest from a drop at the end of a match.
Better than what you had 5 minutes earlier, yes.
Better than everyone else so that you win, no.
Colossal difference, surprised you can't see it.

If you are level 1 you can get better than other level 1's, that is as pay to win as this game gets. You cannot get better than Rep 1+ players.
You cannot pay to win against them, and matchmaking will not be kind enough to place you only against other level 1's.
Again, you rely on fantasy scenarios that do not actually exist in this game.

At Rep 3 once you have 108 there is no better.
You can pay all the money in the world at that point, you will neither have better gear than anyone else, nor will you win.
Yet again, this is the reality vs your fantasy scenario where people are getting 'better' gear with money, when that is actually not possible.

I'm sorry you fail to understand. That I consider pay to win as the ability to get an upgrade using real money(which you can do at any level in this game) over the grind for it. I even posted earlier people have different views of it. I was just stating my view of it. No need to get angry.

If my memory is correct.....thats part of the definition of pay to win in the Urban Dictionary.

If I can use real money to get better gear for my character (whether my character is level 1, rep 2, or rep3) I am paying to not grind for that gear. Therefore I'm paying to win my characters gear.

Alustar.
03-23-2017, 03:15 PM
It's not pay to win, it's pay to keep up with kids with no jobs.

Gray360UK
03-23-2017, 03:29 PM
I'm sorry you fail to understand. That I consider pay to win as the ability to get an upgrade using real money(which you can do at any level in this game) over the grind for it. I even posted earlier people have different views of it. I was just stating my view of it. No need to get angry.

Okay you're just being an arse now and you know it, where is the anger? If you have to stoop to troll tactics 101 to make your points then you're pathetic.

Paying to get an upgrade is not paying to win. I notice everything you say / reply to carefully avoid the subject of not actually being able to win by paying in this game, only being able to improve what you yourself had in your inventory a few moments earlier. As that in no way guarantees that you are now 'better' you have in no way paid to 'win'.

Your 'view' that if you pay for items you then have better items, is not a view. It is a fact. What is not fact, is that you having better items than you had makes you better than everyone else, especially when your ability to improve yourself is capped by your level. It is highly subjective and based on your level and the level of your opponent, and what gear they have. You cannot pay any amount of money to win against someone beyond your item level cap or someone at 108 already.

You arent actually arguing about paying to win, you are arguing about paying to improve / catch up. These are very different things. You cannot understand that.

Like I said though, you avoid discussing that like the plague and you've resorted to being an arse, so screw you :)

Maaci
03-23-2017, 03:33 PM
So with this logic that its NOT PAY TO WIN, so if playing to get reputation 3 would take 4months of 4hours playtime everyday, you would still not consider it pay to win?
Imo i think its pay-to-win aswell, you pay to get an advantage- very simple logic.

It should be removed imo the pay-to-get gear. Cosmetics taking a long time is fine imo, its a nice reward after playing a class for a long time. Perhaps lower it a bit idk but its still just cosmetics.
Buying gear should be removed for money.

Gray360UK
03-23-2017, 03:36 PM
So with this logic that its NOT PAY TO WIN, so if playing to get reputation 3 would take 4months of 4hours playtime everyday, you would still not consider it pay to win?
Imo i think its pay-to-win aswell, you pay to get an advantage- very simple logic.

Lol?
You have it all mixed up.
You cannot pay to get to Rep 3, you know that right?
You know the other guy has to play for 4 months of 4 hours playtime every day as well?
What are you even talking about?
Do you know?
For someone who like very simple logic you sure don't seem to understand very simple things ;)
Gear in For Honor is level capped.
This is an important factor. Very important.

Alustar.
03-23-2017, 03:36 PM
So with this logic that its NOT PAY TO WIN, so if playing to get reputation 3 would take 4months of 4hours playtime everyday, you would still not consider it pay to win?
Imo i think its pay-to-win aswell, you pay to get an advantage- very simple logic.

It should be removed imo the pay-to-get gear. Cosmetics taking a long time is fine imo, its a nice reward after playing a class for a long time. Perhaps lower it a bit idk but its still just cosmetics.
Buying gear should be removed for money.

I've been playing less than two months, I've got rep 3 on my main easily with minimal effort.

Gray360UK
03-23-2017, 03:43 PM
I've been playing less than two months, I've got rep 3 on my main easily with minimal effort.

The game has only been out 5 weeks, I would be impressed if you had played for more than 2 months ;)

RatedChaotic
03-23-2017, 03:44 PM
I guess since I'm rep3 and have all purple gear except that one blue I have. If I dont play and just buy boxes to get my final purple instead of grinding for it that wasnt me paying to win that gear. huh? lmao ok.

Alustar.
03-23-2017, 03:46 PM
So with this logic that its NOT PAY TO WIN, so if playing to get reputation 3 would take 4months of 4hours playtime everyday, you would still not consider it pay to win?
Imo i think its pay-to-win aswell, you pay to get an advantage- very simple logic.

It should be removed imo the pay-to-get gear. Cosmetics taking a long time is fine imo, its a nice reward after playing a class for a long time. Perhaps lower it a bit idk but its still just cosmetics.
Buying gear should be removed for money.


The game has only been out 5 weeks, I would be impressed if you had played for more than 2 months ;)

Lol, I honestly thought it had been longer, I didn't pick it up at launch.
Guess it good to show you how much fun I've been having. I can't eve tell time properly! XD

Alustar.
03-23-2017, 03:58 PM
I guess since I'm rep3 and have all purple gear except that one blue I have. If I dont play and just buy boxes to get my final purple instead of grinding for it that wasnt me paying to win that gear. huh? lmao ok.

Since you want to argue semantics, there is a vast difference between paying for an extra chance at marginally better gear, and assuming that paying is going to give you a win hands down.
If the gear drops from chests you purchase through real world currency is better and more common than what is given out to the rest of the player base, then yes hands down it's pay to win. However, This model is set up mainly to assist players that can't or won't spend the time grinding the steel they need, and since they typically have more expendable income, they have other options.

Complaining that this game is pay to win is simply indicative of a scrub player that can't be ****ed to farm for himself for whatever reason and probably doesn't have the dispense cash flow either. So instead he is upset over "sour grapes" rather than playing like the rest of us.

Gray360UK
03-23-2017, 03:58 PM
I guess since I'm rep3 and have all purple gear except that one blue I have. If I dont play and just buy boxes to get my final purple instead of grinding for it that wasnt me paying to win that gear. huh? lmao ok.

You've totally changed the subject matter in a really bizarre way.
We are talking about paying to win a fight against another player.
Being better than everyone else (see Urban Dictionary definition you quoted).
Not paying to 'win' an item of gear.
This isn't a debate about being able to win items like getting a teddy bear at the funfair.
Did you just take an overdose of stupid pills or something?
That is not what was ever meant by anyone in this thread ever when they talked about 'pay to win'.
This is quite possibly the most enormous goalpost shift I have ever seen on a forum.
You're nuts.

Blasto95
03-23-2017, 04:02 PM
Funny how you think my defintion is dumb dumb dumb. But when you google the definition of pay to win. Thats what it says. lol

Youre still not answerign my question. Is Rainbow Six Siege in your opinion pay to win? It really is a simple yes or no question.

RatedChaotic
03-23-2017, 04:04 PM
You've totally changed the subject matter in a really bizarre way. Is it just out of desperation / refusal to admit you might be wrong about something / anything?
We are talking about paying to win a fight against another playing.
Not paying to 'win' an item of gear.
That is not what was ever meant by anyone in this thread ever when they talked about 'pay to win'.
Most enromous goalpost shift I have ever seen on a forum.
You're nuts.

I'm the desperate one lmao. You got served and your afraid to admit it.

RatedChaotic
03-23-2017, 04:06 PM
Youre still not answerign my question. Is Rainbow Six Siege in your opinion pay to win? It really is a simple yes or no question.

I'm not even going to answer you. So stop asking. How should I know? I've never played it.

Alustar.
03-23-2017, 04:08 PM
Youre still not answerign my question. Is Rainbow Six Siege in your opinion pay to win? It really is a simple yes or no question.

He went answer those because it would lend him to possibly being proven wrong.
It's much easier and safer to dance around simple typos and argue semantics instead of the actual topic.
This guy sounds like Clinton trying to justify how a hummer isn't sexual contact.

Blasto95
03-23-2017, 04:13 PM
I'm not even going to answer you. So stop asking. How should I know? I've never played it.

Ok. I'll accept that. Thats all you needed to say.

R6S allows you to purchase items in the game. 99% of those items are fluff. However there are gun attachments that you can buy (for cheap) that do enhance your gameplay. By your definition, a player could purchase those items with money and have advantage over another new player who did not purchase these items. Technically correct, but if you played R6S or know of anyone that does, they would tell you that advantage is so small and so short lived that calling it a P2W game would be asinine. So just because by technicality it may abide by the definition, it still does not make it a legitimate P2W game.

I consider a P2W game where you can only attain an item by realistic means through purchase. All items in For Honor and R6S, save for fluff, are attainable by even the most casual player.

guor6800
03-23-2017, 04:17 PM
I guess since I'm rep3 and have all purple gear except that one blue I have. If I dont play and just buy boxes to get my final purple instead of grinding for it that wasnt me paying to win that gear. huh? lmao ok.

Mate if you pay to get the last purple item, but because you are unlucky you dont get the purple item with the stats you would like on your char does this still count as buy-to-win? Also how much have you spent before reaching rep 3? My main is rep 7. No steel bought got 108 gear and some cosmetics. Now lvling up my second char he is rep 1 at 15-20 gear. By the time i get rep 3 i would have the required steel to make him at least 80+gear.

No offense man but if you consider this pay-to-win you clearly haven't felt how it is to actually lose because the other guy has better gear because of money.

Alustar.
03-23-2017, 04:43 PM
Point of order, I've been in matches with a single 108, let's assume he posted for his gear. My teams have beaten others with higher rated gear. But by this methodology they should have won because they paid for gear, right? So why do they lose?
Now, true that's a team death match, so what about 1v1? In duels and brawls, start weights aren't affected, do your gear is moot.