PDA

View Full Version : Is playing with (((((Honor))))) a reportable offense for griefing?



End_My_Life12
03-20-2017, 05:13 PM
This is a serious question and I really want to get an answer, because people who claim they are playing with "honor" are absolutely ruining 4v4 modes. I've had countless games where teammates would just sit back and watch me or other teammates die and get executed rather than help us because they claim to be playing with "honor", just for them to end up not being able to win and costing us the round because they felt like roleplaying in a team based game mode.

Standing back and watching your team lose/get executed is absolutely griefing, especially when it ends up costing us the round/game. So my question is can people be punished if I report them for playing ((((((honorably))))))?

I'd love for a community manager to set this straight for everyone.

Eddeh07
03-20-2017, 05:21 PM
I don't think you're going to have much luck arguing this one. Hanging back can be used as a legitimate tactic to avoid triggering revenge mode. The second you engage in more than 1v1, the speed at which that revenge meter spikes is dramatically increased. Sometimes if you have bad positioning, it isn't worth swinging away, interrupting/friendly firing your teammate, and triggering the enemy's revenge all at once

End_My_Life12
03-20-2017, 05:23 PM
I don't think you're going to have much luck arguing this one. Hanging back can be used as a legitimate tactic to avoid triggering revenge mode. The second you engage in more than 1v1, the speed at which that revenge meter spikes is dramatically increased. Sometimes if you have bad positioning, it isn't worth swinging away, interrupting/friendly firing your teammate, and triggering the enemy's revenge all at once

I completely understand hanging back to not trigger revenge, but that's not what these honor people do. They hang back, watch the enemy get revenge thanks to revenge gear, and don't do a damn thing to help you even when the enemy has revenge already. And if you lose they'll happily watch the enemy execute you so you can't get revived and the enemy gets a health bonus.

NeoLocutus
03-20-2017, 05:49 PM
I play to win, bro. To win! There isn't honor in a war, it is just a matter of surviving and winning... no matter what.
This means that I gank the enemy whenever there is a chance, I throw him off a cliff if it is more convenient than engaging him in a dangerous duel and so on.

In addition to that, ganking, throwing off a cliff or in the spikes are game mechanics, not exploits, so I'm ok if they do that to me too! I may rage a bit, but I rage everytime I die in a game, so it is ok. :D

As Eddeh and End_My_Life12 said, hanging back is necessary to prevent the enemy from building revenge FAST. I'm not that good at For Honor (I only got Rep.1 yesterday), but what I understood by playing is that in 2/3/4 vs 1 scenario:

1) Position yourself well: you should at all costs avoid hitting your teammate. You'd interrupt and hurt him a bit, give an opening to your enemy to flee or strike.

2) Be aware of what your teammate is doing too: mindless bashing won't do any good, I learned it the hard way. Look at your teammate, try to coordinate your attacks with his ones. Don't attack the enemy if he has just parried an attack from your teammate, since he has a small window in which he parries your attacks too, no matter your stance. This means that you're helping your enemy in building his revenge faster. Wait for the right occasion to strike!

3) Don't let bloodlust cloud your judgement: it doesn't matter who deals the final strike. The only thing that matters is that your team wins the match, so play for your team and don't give your enemy a chance to survive by giving him unnecessary revenge. And by the way, the game awards assist-men with a takedown too.

4) Finally you don't have to assume you're winning because you outnumber your enemy: I learned this too the hard way. If he is good, when he gets revenge he will literally hand your *** and let you bit the dust.

Please feel free to correct me, I'm still learning how to play :D

Xynrex
03-20-2017, 05:50 PM
I hate the honor dudes more than gankers.

There is a 1v1 for a purpose....

Iwata-Salad
03-20-2017, 05:52 PM
I've said this before but being honorable is no good if your dead. The winner is the hero. Rember that while evily cackling, kicking someone off a ledge or into fire.

Captain-Courage
03-20-2017, 05:54 PM
It could be indeed, why not
In 4 vs 4, it's like playing agaisnt his own team after all (besides strategic management of a geared oponent in 2v1, which of course should be taken with caution to not feed him with revenge)

Said people don't understand what is honor to begin with, and doesn't seem to be clever enough to understand all the irony behind said title, even more emphasized by the story mode.
And .... there isn't one definition of honor to begin with.
But dense people and mindless weebs can't see that.

Iuslez_
03-20-2017, 06:32 PM
I often do that, not for honor tho, but for enjoyment. Ganking someone is no fun to me. If there is a big teamfight I'll happily join, but if I see a 1v1 I let it end and then do my own 1v1. Another reason is that if the guy has some good gear, it can backfire and make sure you lose the round.

If you're already dead, why do you actually care whether or not you win the round? There is no ranking, you're already dead so your K/D ratio has already taken a hit, and the win ratio in 4v4 is completely irrelevant.

End_My_Life12
03-20-2017, 06:39 PM
I often do that, not for honor tho, but for enjoyment. Ganking someone is no fun to me. If there is a big teamfight I'll happily join, but if I see a 1v1 I let it end and then do my own 1v1. Another reason is that if the guy has some good gear, it can backfire and make sure you lose the round.

If you're already dead, why do you actually care whether or not you win the round? There is no ranking, you're already dead so your K/D ratio has already taken a hit, and the win ratio in 4v4 is completely irrelevant.

I care because some people enjoy winning. And the majority of the time I'm still alive and against someone in elimination with multiple buffs, meanwhile my teammate just hangs back and watches the fight as if I'm meant to easily take down someone with a shield and attack buff.

Also it's funny you make the argument that if they have good gear it can backfire, because watching the entire 1v1 and then fighting them after means you're fighting someone with an almost full revenge bar, letting them get revenge almost immediately, which is incredibly stupid.

AKDagriZ
03-20-2017, 06:42 PM
i said it here http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1611994-A-general-rule

Gray360UK
03-20-2017, 06:48 PM
I hate the honor dudes more than gankers.

There is a 1v1 for a purpose....

This ^

Iuslez_
03-20-2017, 07:22 PM
I care because some people enjoy winning. And the majority of the time I'm still alive and against someone in elimination with multiple buffs, meanwhile my teammate just hangs back and watches the fight as if I'm meant to easily take down someone with a shield and attack buff.

Also it's funny you make the argument that if they have good gear it can backfire, because watching the entire 1v1 and then fighting them after means you're fighting someone with an almost full revenge bar, letting them get revenge almost immediately, which is incredibly stupid.
can't see any pride in hoping someone comes to your help to get yourself a victory.

I enjoy beating someone, but when I'm in an intense 1v1 and an ally comes in a kills my opponent in his back, I find it less revarding that if I had gotten that kill myself. Even more since in 90% of the game someone disconnects/gets disconncted and the team with no bot then has a huge advantage since it can finish that 1v1 fast and then go gank the other team. What point is there in such a victory?

Now if the opponent has buffs to me it is not a 1v1 anymore, and I'll usually enter the fight.

Your point about revenge is not true. Usually there is enough time between the two fights for the revenge bar to reset.

teksuo1
03-20-2017, 07:25 PM
There's really no way to make everyone happy.

Play with honor and you look like a slacker for your team;
Play without honor and get flamed by the enemy team.

it's just confusing as different lobbies will have different preferences ; just play without honor all the time to ensure consistency :o

End_My_Life12
03-20-2017, 07:36 PM
[QUOTE=Iuslez_;12476374]can't see any pride in hoping someone comes to your help to get yourself a victory.

It's near impossible to beat someone stacking multiple buffs unless they are absolutely awful , and it's just insulting to have a teammate watch me fight a battle I'll almost definitely lose


And my point about revenge is absolutely true. If you're just standing watching the fight then once your teammate dies the enemy will lock onto you, and their revenge bar won't drop at all.

And my main point is that in a TEAM based game if you refuse to help your team when they ask you to it's literally griefing. We have duels for a reason, there's no reason people should be refusing to help their team.

Vingrask
03-20-2017, 07:46 PM
If I managed to grab someone near a hazard, I will use that.

When I play 4v4 modes, if a teammate is struggling against the enemy, I will interefere. Or I just throw grabs for he/she do the job.

The thing is: do it! Do everything possible to kill the enemy without shame, and in time all those pseudo-honorable players will get tired of die and this "syndicate" will end.

If your teammate isn't helping and you need it: run! Run until your enemy switch the target to one of them.

Captain-Courage
03-20-2017, 08:03 PM
I think the more the debate advance (not only of that thread), the more we can see two distinctive groups

- People that fantasize Honor and the heroic figure in a purely romanesque way. Ironically I think it's often more driven by ego and social acceptance desire than anything else.
- People that actually studied History, historical warfare and battles, cultures, martial arts.

ParadigmFringe
03-20-2017, 08:24 PM
well... technically they're not "ruining" anything.

YOU are still getting your xp, your steel, and your xp for playing, so the only thing they're really doing to you is slowing your gains MARGINALLY, and possibly costing you a loss. since win/loss ratio is something only CoD tryhard badkids care about, you must have some other isue... right?

ParadigmFringe
03-20-2017, 08:29 PM
I think the more the debate advance (not only of that thread), the more we can see two distinctive groups

- People that fantasize Honor and the heroic figure in a purely romanesque way. Ironically I think it's often more driven by ego and social acceptance desire than anything else.
- People that actually studied History, historical warfare and battles, cultures, martial arts.

*facepalm*
i hope you understand that your oversimplification of the demographics in play only serves to inflate your own ego, as you clearly identify with the latter of the two groups you mentioned. the irony is strong with you.

i have stood aside and watched teammates die because:
-they got me killed through random flailing in an earlier round
-i dueled and beat their current opponent in a previous round and know i can do it again
-my girlfriend passed me the pipe and i wanted to take a rip while i had the opportunity

in 4v4 modes, there is no honor...just personal priorities, and frankly, i don't give a rat's *** about YOUR priorities, so i'm just going to let you get murdered if you suck that bad. mmkay thanx.

Captain-Courage
03-20-2017, 08:30 PM
well... technically they're not "ruining" anything.

YOU are still getting your xp, your steel, and your xp for playing, so the only thing they're really doing to you is slowing your gains MARGINALLY, and possibly costing you a loss. since win/loss ratio is something only CoD tryhard badkids care about, you must have some other isue... right?

Somebody who doesn't understand what teamwork is has spoken.
I don't know if you even see how deeply egoist your postulate is.
But it tells long about your mindset actually.


*facepalm*
i hope you understand that your oversimplification of the demographics in play only serves to inflate your own ego, as you clearly identify with the latter of the two groups you mentioned. the irony is strong with you.

i have stood aside and watched teammates die because:
-they got me killed through random flailing in an earlier round
-i dueled and beat their current opponent in a previous round and know i can do it again
-my girlfriend passed me the pipe and i wanted to take a rip while i had the opportunity

in 4v4 modes, there is no honor...just personal priorities, and frankly, i don't give a rat's *** about YOUR priorities, so i'm just going to let you get murdered if you suck that bad. mmkay thanx.

Sarcasm indeed. You don't seem to understand that either.
Do I need to fax or mail it to your belly button for you to see it, or that's ok ?
Yeah, for the notice : Nobody gives a damn about you. My my my I, I, I. I do this, I do that. Do what you want with or without your girlfriend, You don't have to justify yourself.
Because nobody cares.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-20-2017, 08:53 PM
It's a team based game, and had you helped out your teammate, their KD would have gone the other way. Instead, you stood and watched your teammate die. To me, that's dishonorable. Your goal in an Elimination, Skirmish or Dominion game is to win the game. Not winning the game because you wanted to duel someone is 100% not adhering to the rules of the game. Read the rules of the game. They're quite clear.

Brawl (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/brawl.aspx) - This is a 2v2, best-of-five rounds battle to the death. Each hero spawns at a different point of the map. A team wins a battle when they’ve eliminated the last hero of the opposing team. There are no respawns. Battle arenas are filled with traps and ledges, so exploit your environment to your advantage!

Elimination (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/elimination.aspx) - Elimination is a best of five rounds 4v4 mode. There is no respawn and the player who is the last to survive on the battlefield wins the round for their team. It’s a mode full of tension where every fight matters – will you confront your direct opponent or coordinate with your team to storm together one enemy after the other?

Skirmish (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/skirmish.aspx) - Combat skills are key in Skirmish as you score points for your team by killing enemy Heroes. Each match ends with a climatic breaking phase when one team needs to wipe out all of the players on the other team to win the game!

Dominion (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/dominion.aspx) - In this 4v4 battle you must break the opposing team’s morale and then eliminate them. You do so by scoring points through killing enemies, capturing specific areas, and controlling them over time. Once a team reaches 1000 points, the opposite team breaks and can no longer spawn unless they kill opponents or recapture areas. A team wins by killing the last hero of a breaking team.


If you're already dead, why do you actually care whether or not you win the round? There is no ranking, you're already dead so your K/D ratio has already taken a hit, and the win ratio in 4v4 is completely irrelevant.

Uncle-Smough
03-20-2017, 08:59 PM
I don't team up on somebody for two reasons.

First because I don't want to screw up the fight, I want it to be fair. HONOR IN FOR HONOR WHAT

Second because if I hit the enemy they usually get revenge and if they are good then they can usually take me and my teammate at once.

MrForz
03-20-2017, 09:04 PM
You know. People happen to be paired with teammates that aren't quite as good. These people break their opponent then go slaughter the others in order to try to gain as much advantage to compensate. I find it normal whether I'm the one doing it or being at the receiving end of a 2vs1.

Also, winning or losing is one thing, but man, to drag it on, and on, and on, and on, AND ON! Because those dudes queue up on that last guy for whatever they think honorable means. I'd rather get to the next round asap than be condemned to watch some Orochi getting his 3rd storm rush attempt parried in the same fight while I'm doing backflips on the side.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-20-2017, 09:06 PM
You should spend some time getting acquainted with the rules of the game then. If you could take a moment and point out where the word honor is written at in the rules there above, I'd appreciate it, because I missed them when I was reading them through while posting them.

WAIT! I know why. Because the word Honor isn't there. It's a fictitious and stupid paradigm that people have placed on a game that is based solely on the killing of another player. If you actually had honor you're respect your teammates and the game modes designed function and operate accordingly. Additionally, that you think that fairness is integral into the game just smacks of arrogance. How exactly is you watching your teammate lose fair to your teammate? I'd love you to explain that one.


First because I don't want to screw up the fight, I want it to be fair. HONOR IN FOR HONOR WHAT

AKDagriZ
03-20-2017, 09:12 PM
I don't team up on somebody for two reasons.

First because I don't want to screw up the fight, I want it to be fair. HONOR IN FOR HONOR WHAT

Second because if I hit the enemy they usually get revenge and if they are good then they can usually take me and my teammate at once.

i will give you a better advice .When opponent revenge pop step back.And even if you want .You can step back with honor ...

Uncle-Smough
03-20-2017, 09:47 PM
You should spend some time getting acquainted with the rules of the game then. If you could take a moment and point out where the word honor is written at in the rules there above, I'd appreciate it, because I missed them when I was reading them through while posting them.

WAIT! I know why. Because the word Honor isn't there. It's a fictitious and stupid paradigm that people have placed on a game that is based solely on the killing of another player. If you actually had honor you're respect your teammates and the game modes designed function and operate accordingly. Additionally, that you think that fairness is integral into the game just smacks of arrogance. How exactly is you watching your teammate lose fair to your teammate? I'd love you to explain that one.

Well I think of the fight like how I think of fights. Even if I'm losing I usually would rather fight my opponent without somebody else. I know others are different but I'm sure some people have my same mindset. That and many of times I tried to help but ended up getting my teammate killed due to revenge, which is never fun if you've experienced it. Although if my teammate asks for help through voice chat or the chat system I will definitely help them.

If it's skirmish or dominion I usually help my teammates, if it makes you happier.

You also seem pretty upset about the matter, I assume you are one of the people who get destroyed and need help?

Uncle-Smough
03-20-2017, 09:54 PM
i will give you a better advice .When opponent revenge pop step back.And even if you want .You can step back with honor ...

Well I can step back all I want it won't stop them from chasing me down or just killing my teammate. And if I step back then what was the point of even "helping"? All I did was make the enemy get his rÍvent faster.

Vordred
03-20-2017, 10:06 PM
my general rule of thumb for elimination is after killing my guy, i head for my nearest team mate, if when i get there he is winning, i move on, save triggering revenge and messing up a fight my team mate is already winning, and i do the same to the next team mate until i find one struggling and then i jump in.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-20-2017, 10:12 PM
First , let me start with your backhanded slap here. You don't know me. If you don't like me calling you out for failing to look at the rules of the game, that's a you problem. I'm not the one who is out of line here. It's you and people who play team based game modes just like you.

You also seem pretty upset about the matter,

You've assumed wrong. I don't need help. I'm just fine going one on one, and for the most part I win more than I lose. The issue here is that the topic point is that I'm losing and you just watched. If I'm losing and you're standing there watching me lose. Yeah. I'm going to be pissed off. You've abandoned your teammate for a self ritualized sense of honor that doesn't exist at the game modes core. That is where you're just not getting it.

I assume you are one of the people who get destroyed and need help?

That's great. It's nice to see that you "USUALLY" adhere to the game rules in 2/3rds of the 4-v-4 team games. Just one problem. 100% of the time the rules are the same. You're falling short as a teammate.

If it's skirmish or dominion I usually help my teammates, if it makes you happier.

Those are called duels. There is an entire game mode designed around what you like to call a "fight." I'm not sure why that game mode and it's design / rule set spill over into completely different games.

Well I think of the fight like how I think of fights.

That's a skill issue. I'm not saying this to be flippant, but learn to be a better teammate. Figure out how to counter your moves off your teammates moves rather than your opponents moves. Stand face to face and attack from different sides where possible. Utilize the things that you have to your advantage. IF your teammate dies, at least win the fight and cut down on the resurrection timer to help keep the advantage of numbers in your teams favor.

Even if I'm losing I usually would rather fight my opponent without somebody else. I know others are different but I'm sure some people have my same mindset. That and many of times I tried to help but ended up getting my teammate killed due to revenge, which is never fun if you've experienced it.

I don't ever hear anything in game chat. Ever. As for the chat system if your teammates getting their *** handed to them do you really need them to stop defending themselves to say "Hey Pal, I could use some help here?" Its pretty obvious who is winning and losing a fight. If you're in the area and you have any sense of situational awareness you can see clearly what direction a fight is going. Letting your teammate get executed, and then trying to solo said player isn't going to change the fact that you saw it coming and did nothing. It's not hard. Your team gives points when they die. Your team gets closer to losing when they die. As a teammate you should do whatever you can do ensure that the points stay in your favor. Simplest move. Kill the opposing team player.

Although if my teammate asks for help through voice chat or the chat system I will definitely help them.

Nosmer1
03-20-2017, 10:14 PM
Helping your tammate is a honorable act. Placing your teammate in danger is a dishonorable act. Thats all there is to it.

Uncle-Smough
03-20-2017, 10:20 PM
Helping your tammate is a honorable act. Placing your teammate in danger is a dishonorable act. Thats all there is to it.

Well unless your teammate doesn't want help, then you just screw him over. There is a chat for a reason, use it if you want help for a fight you don't think you can win.

Nosmer1
03-20-2017, 10:24 PM
Well unless your teammate doesn't want help, then you just screw him over. There is a chat for a reason, use it if you want help for a fight you don't think you can win.

Triggering revenge is considered as placing your teammate in danger, yes. Friendly fire, too

ParadigmFringe
03-20-2017, 10:29 PM
Somebody who doesn't understand what teamwork is has spoken.
I don't know if you even see how deeply egoist your postulate is.
But it tells long about your mindset actually.



Sarcasm indeed. You don't seem to understand that either.
Do I need to fax or mail it to your belly button for you to see it, or that's ok ?
Yeah, for the notice : Nobody gives a damn about you. My my my I, I, I. I do this, I do that. Do what you want with or without your girlfriend, You don't have to justify yourself.
Because nobody cares.

i strongly recommend you go pick up a dictionary (likely a foreign concept for you) and look up "irony". you should find a description of yourself therein.

Turric4n666
03-20-2017, 10:34 PM
https://youtu.be/JZ6anAJyOas?t=1h2m3s

just some random thing i stumbled across.. different game but the concept still applies.

Uncle-Smough
03-20-2017, 10:38 PM
First , let me start with your backhanded slap here. You don't know me. If you don't like me calling you out for failing to look at the rules of the game, that's a you problem. I'm not the one who is out of line here. It's you and people who play team based game modes just like you.


You've assumed wrong. I don't need help. I'm just fine going one on one, and for the most part I win more than I lose. The issue here is that the topic point is that I'm losing and you just watched. If I'm losing and you're standing there watching me lose. Yeah. I'm going to be pissed off. You've abandoned your teammate for a self ritualized sense of honor that doesn't exist at the game modes core. That is where you're just not getting it.


That's great. It's nice to see that you "USUALLY" adhere to the game rules in 2/3rds of the 4-v-4 team games. Just one problem. 100% of the time the rules are the same. You're falling short as a teammate.


Those are called duels. There is an entire game mode designed around what you like to call a "fight." I'm not sure why that game mode and it's design / rule set spill over into completely different games.


That's a skill issue. I'm not saying this to be flippant, but learn to be a better teammate. Figure out how to counter your moves off your teammates moves rather than your opponents moves. Stand face to face and attack from different sides where possible. Utilize the things that you have to your advantage. IF your teammate dies, at least win the fight and cut down on the resurrection timer to help keep the advantage of numbers in your teams favor.


I don't ever hear anything in game chat. Ever. As for the chat system if your teammates getting their *** handed to them do you really need them to stop defending themselves to say "Hey Pal, I could use some help here?" Its pretty obvious who is winning and losing a fight. If you're in the area and you have any sense of situational awareness you can see clearly what direction a fight is going. Letting your teammate get executed, and then trying to solo said player isn't going to change the fact that you saw it coming and did nothing. It's not hard. Your team gives points when they die. Your team gets closer to losing when they die. As a teammate you should do whatever you can do ensure that the points stay in your favor. Simplest move. Kill the opposing team player.

First I'm just going to ask you where is the official rule book for "team based" game modes? Team up on people or your a ******? Didnt see that in the rule book that doesn't exist...

Just because you have a team doesn't mean you need to team up just because it seems as if they are struggling. It is a 4v4 gamemode afterall, not a 1v4 gamemode. And as I said, if they need help there is a chat where you can ask for it. On xbox (not sure xbox pc and ps4) all you need to do is push a button and it drops a beacon and puts "help at ___" in the chat. If you don't ask me for help don't expect me to help.

And when I say I usually help people it mostly means that I'll help unless I can see that my teammate and opponent are having a nice fight that is going well for my teammate.

The good old argument ender; "There is a gamemode for 1v1's called duels". Well duels can be boring, easy, and annoying, but usually only boring and annoying. In elimination and other 4v4 gamemodes I see more casual players, whereas in duels I see a lot more competitive players, using more cheesy tactics and more advanced tactics which isn't always very fun to fight. Not saying I'm bad at fighting people like that, just saying it's not as fun.

I do however break my extremely honorable rules sometimes and butt into a fight eithout hesitation when I see that my teammate is getting absolutely destroyed and has no chance of winning. Such as a level 2 raider vs prestige 19 peacekeeper.
If my teammate is losing but has a good chance to comeback (and doesn't ask for help) I will watch. If they ask for help I will help.

AcceptYourDeath
03-20-2017, 10:39 PM
This self inflicted "honorable" attitude is hurting the game as far as I am concerned outside of 1vs1 or maybe 2vs2 duels.

For one, how would you ever balance a game with your ruleset in mind and part of the playerbase is making up their own ruleset on the fly and propably alternating over time?
Especially Dominion will never develop or get better if people litteraly don`t play the game mode but having their own off-spin version in mind.

Just imagine for a second you would duel "honorable" in Dota - no you don`t you absolutely don`t. You also won`t run in a enemy base and cry about being overwhelmed.
C on their side A is on yours, it is very simple and not hard to understand as a concept as in any other game.

Same goes for pickups in certain modes, that is how quake/doom styled games worked for two decades now, and they went very competitive with this ruleset.


For ganking and outnumbering in dominion mode (primarily) there are already decent mechanics in place outside of revenge. First you have external blocking which is at least some help.
Next you have a very good protection against being overwhelmed by moves such as throwing, which can make it fairly difficult to grab an opponent already in combat for the majority. If they are in a certain animation you won`t guardbreak them whatsoever.
One of the reasons why fighting an outnumbered opponent often feels odd and random. Also a good reason to hang back.

And the most important reason (which I think most players are not aware of or thinking about) is friendly fire.) It`s not that easy not getting in each others way, with every strike you do very likely interrupting your teammate and vice versa. A very common way to die because you are staggered all the time by a teammate, eating every attack from your opponent.

Having all that said and everything I didn`t mention keep in mind as a baseline. How should they ever balance and continue the game if some are playing as intented, some play "honorable", some play what they think is "honorable" etc.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-20-2017, 11:00 PM
I'll just assume that you've never been a part of a team / haven't played any team based sports based on your lack of understanding how a team works.

I'll just leave this here:
team∑work
[ˈtēmˌwərk]
NOUN
The process of working collaboratively with a group of people in order to achieve a goal.

col∑lab∑o∑ra∑tive
[kəˈlab(ə)rədivlē]
ADVERB
in a way that is produced by or involves two or more parties working together

First I'm just going to ask you where is the official rule book for "team based" game modes? Team up on people or your a ******? Didnt see that in the rule book that doesn't exist...

Do you even read what you write? You're saing you see me struggling in a team based game and rather than help me you've chosen to watch me struggle and thus lose the battle, and you're okay with that? Cool. You're a crap teammate. Not much else to say here. Your job as a teammate is to support your team. If one of the players on your team is "clearly" losing and you watch him die becuase you have some sense of entitlement that you're not going to help because it's not in your realm of honor. Cool. Go play one on one games. That won't be a problem for you, and your teammates I'm sure will be happy you've made that decision. Having said that, if you're going to go into a team based game and provide some sort of altered paradigm on whats expected of you. Well you're the problem.

Just because you have a team doesn't mean you need to team up just because it seems as if they are struggling.

Not only are you stammering on and on about honor and how it's a "fight" and I'm honorable, but now I have to beg my teammate for help because he's too honorable or too ignorant to see that I am clearly in trouble. You've got a pretty high value placed on your time. My fault. I didn't realize that we were dealing with royalty here.

If they need help there is a chat where you can ask for it. On xbox (not sure xbox pc and ps4) all you need to do is push a button and it drops a beacon and puts "help at ___" in the chat. If you don't ask me for help don't expect me to help.

That's great. That's what is called strategy. Two people spending time killing one person, that one other person can kill is a waste of resources, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're not discussing your good teammate skills but your bad ones.

And when I say I usually help people it mostly means that I'll help unless I can see that my teammate and opponent are having a nice fight that is going well for my teammate.

Fine. They're boring. The point you completely missed regarding the "argument ender" is that you brought your rules of gameplay with you, and then you're not playing the game. What you're doing is just choosing to do whatever you want in a gamemode where other players are relying on you to make good strategic decisions to help your team win. At the end of the day that's what its about. It's not about Kills vs Deaths. It's not about how many times I ran around the map. It's about winning the game mode. First, team to eliminate they opposing teams players wins. In essence, you're playing for the opposing team if you allow a player on the other team to kill one of your teammates and do nothing. Is that really that difficult to see or understand?

The good old argument ender; "There is a gamemode for 1v1's called duels". Well duels can be boring, easy, and annoying, but usually only boring and annoying. In elimination and other 4v4 gamemodes I see more casual players, whereas in duels I see a lot more competitive players, using more cheesy tactics and more advanced tactics which isn't always very fun to fight. Not saying I'm bad at fighting people like that, just saying it's not as fun.

As you should. The issue here is that you assume that because the Raider is level 2 that they're not a highly skilled figher. Clearly the 19 Peacekeeper is talented (Or they suck and play a lot). The point I'm trying to make is that regardless of the level of the player, the team should be the first priority. I'm a Reputation 6 Nobushi. Cartoonz (Viking Leader) is a Reputation 1 Shoguki. If he and I are in a fight, I'd really hope you're coming to my rescue because that dudes a very good player. What I'm trying to portray / get at here is that every fight you pass should be evaluated. If you're of the belief your teammate is going to win and don't want to get into the fray, I'm cool with that to a point. But the original post says and I quote "You watched me die."

Personally I hope that you're going to jump in and kill the guy I'm fighting to get him dead and allow us to move along to the next guy faster. As we create leverage / advantage we can put the opposing team in what my guys I play with call a "Death Loop." The longer that teams have guys executed and waiting 15 seconds to respawn the higher the probability you can chain those kills to keep them in that loop. In games like Elimination that's not as big of a deal as once they're all dead the reset button is clicked, but I think you see what I'm driving at here.

I do however break my extremely honorable rules sometimes and butt into a fight eithout hesitation when I see that my teammate is getting absolutely destroyed and has no chance of winning. Such as a level 2 raider vs prestige 19 peacekeeper.

Again here you go with that, if you don't ask for help I'm not helping. You assume that they're able to actually take time to say "Hey teammate! Help me!" If they're losing, which is the topic at debate, you should immediately jump in. They shouldn't have to ask for your help. Its expected.

If my teammate is losing but has a good chance to comeback (and doesn't ask for help) I will watch. If they ask for help I will help.

Xaviloga
03-20-2017, 11:36 PM
In war ppl do the necessary to survive, agree, but they have a goal, they have a reason to do it. We, playing For Honor, dont. I dont get satisfaction to play dirt because i have no a reason to do it. There is not my life in risk. This is a game. I dont like to do things i consider myself as bad things if i dont have the need of do it. And i dont feel good doing it even in a game. Play as dirt and cowardly as you can if you want, fine for me, but with your permission, or not, i ll play as i want to.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-20-2017, 11:41 PM
If you truly believe that there isn't a goal in mind when you enter the game you're a fool. Every game has an outcome. That outcome is the goal. Not hard to follow. If you're not working as a team then you're a horrible teammate. It's that simple.


In war ppl do the necessary to survive, agree, but they have a goal, they have a reason to do it. We, playing For Honor, dont. I dont get satisfaction to play dirt because i have no a reason to do it. There is not my life in risk. This is a game. I dont like to do things i consider myself as bad things if i dont have the need of do it. And i dont feel good doing it even in a game. Play as dirt and cowardly as you can if you want, fine for me, but with your permission, or not, i ll play as i want to.

RoosterIlluzion
03-20-2017, 11:44 PM
Just block those players and move on.

Xaviloga
03-20-2017, 11:47 PM
If you truly believe that there isn't a goal in mind when you enter the game you're a fool. Every game has an outcome. That outcome is the goal. Not hard to follow. If you're not working as a team then you're a horrible teammate. It's that simple.

Yes, the goal is have fun, at least is my goal. Yours probably is win at any cost. If you feel good avoiding any 1vs1 because win is a duty, its ok. Again, its fine, no problem.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-20-2017, 11:51 PM
Your implying that I don't have fun while playing is silly. I enjoy my game play. What I don't enjoy is crap teammates who bring their own set of rules that cannot be seen in the graphical user interface that is my teams composition.

Yes, the goal is have fun, at least is my goal.

I don't win all my games I play. In fact, using FHTracker.com I lose more than I win (49.8%). That said, you imply that I'm violating the standard rules of engagement in the game to win at all costs is just silly. I've never done that. Not one time have I ever hacked the game, utilized some augmented controller to push the buttons faster. I play the game within the requirements of the game. In a team based game, I'm supposed to work with other players to get more points than the other team. It's not too hard to follow the logic associated with that. Have you actually read the game descriptions?

Yours probably is win at any cost.

First, in a 4v4 game mode there are no 1v1s. So now that we've clearly established you're a duel player trying to bring your dueling rules to a team based four player team based concept I think we can all move along.

If you feel good avoiding any 1vs1 because win is a duty, its ok. Again, its fine, no problem.

NeoLocutus
03-21-2017, 10:42 AM
In war ppl do the necessary to survive, agree, but they have a goal, they have a reason to do it. We, playing For Honor, dont. I dont get satisfaction to play dirt because i have no a reason to do it. There is not my life in risk. This is a game. I dont like to do things i consider myself as bad things if i dont have the need of do it. And i dont feel good doing it even in a game. Play as dirt and cowardly as you can if you want, fine for me, but with your permission, or not, i ll play as i want to.

This game is simulating a full-scale war though. I assume that it's correct to use in this simulation the same tactics I would use in a real world conflict :-)

And you're welcome to use them too, it's ok, the game lets you do that. As far as you're not exploiting a game mechanic (aka cheating) it is ok for me :-)



There are no rules in war or battle, the smarter person always wins! If you are stupid enough to get thrown off a cliff, then your not good enough to win. If i get thrown off, i dont get upset. Even if i get thrown off in one move. So keep on saying wow when you lose! Ill keep on saying thanks! Bc i know your impressed!

Pretty much this, even if I admit that I rage a bit when they throw me off without even hitting me XD

Xaviloga
03-21-2017, 12:29 PM
Dominion 4vs4. A fun even match fighting with and against equal skill people. Pretty fun even if people kill me, i do it too.Both sides reach the 1000 poins around same time. We prepare to the most fun moment of the match, we ll try our skill bring us the victory... and the some one use a simple skill as Catapult is, kill 3 memebers of one side at the same time and the match is over. Do you think its fun because you won? i dont, sorry. To me is not fun win at any price, to me is fun the match itself even if i lose but no cheap tactics involved.

Captain-Courage
03-21-2017, 12:57 PM
Dominion 4vs4. A fun even match fighting with and against equal skill people. Pretty fun even if people kill me, i do it too.Both sides reach the 1000 poins around same time. We prepare to the most fun moment of the match, we ll try our skill bring us the victory... and the some one use a simple skill as Catapult is, kill 3 memebers of one side at the same time and the match is over. Do you think its fun because you won? i dont, sorry. To me is not fun win at any price, to me is fun the match itself even if i lose but no cheap tactics involved.

The salt you display here.... can be kinda fun indeed.
The enemies have an asset, they use it at the moment where it will weight the most on the game's outcome.
Quite understandable.

AKDagriZ
03-21-2017, 01:03 PM
The salt you display here.... can be kinda fun indeed.

he is not really crying salt .He point an aspect of the game not really fun , either way loosing or winning with this feat not really fun.I prefer an insane brawl when both team are breaking but it is an aspect of the game we have to live with.

Captain-Courage
03-21-2017, 01:10 PM
he is not really crying salt .He point an aspect of the game not really fun , either way loosing or winning with this feat not really fun.I prefer an insane brawl when both team are breaking but it is an aspect of the game we have to live with.

It's part of the game.
Sometimes, you feel robbed indeed. You dominate a Domminion game, your score at the end of said game is better than the other team, and you still lose.
Because they put their **** together at the right time, bad flow, bad luck, unexpected turnover.
And yeah, catapults hits hard. Very hard. That's one of the things that can produce said turnover, and why one should always take care about knights in the final minutes of a game, even more if you didn't see them use a lvl 4 talent yet (I don't even use catapult when I play knights to be honest). But it's not cheating or being a coward. Just using talents when they'll be the most effective.

secrecy274
03-21-2017, 01:26 PM
I think people gets way too worked up about this.
For me it's quite simple.
In Brawl, I never go for either a ledge kill nor a gank until I'm sure how the other team plays.
If my opponent either throws me off a ledge, it's very clear he tries or he spams hard-to-stop combos aka the Warden "vortex/mix-up", I will throw him off without hesitation.
If my opponents gank me, I will do the same to them.
Although, tbh, I prefer 2v2 instead of 1v1x2. When all four players are engaging each other, constantly swapping targets to attack from undefended angles, Brawl really comes alive for me.

However, in any 4v4 mode, gloves are off. If I can make sure you don't come back, either by a environmental kill or chopping an unsuspecting enemy in the back and executing them, I will.
The only thing I won't do, is the "dishonorable" way of waiting for your teammate to get killed, only to stab the enemy in the back during the execution.

Valtaya
03-21-2017, 01:49 PM
all this **** talk about honor in 4on4
whine whine cry cry cry "i do not enjoy killing soneone 2/3/4vs1 or throwing from ledge" whine whine whine cry cry cry even more
I wonder
when in american football the quarterback gets the ball, is just the quarterback of the oponsing team allowed to go for him... or the whole team
yeah
all this **** talk about "it is just a game"
yes it is a game and it has rules and 4vs4 mean free for all
you dont enjoy cheap moves, then play duel
any coach would send you to hell if you told him "nah I play defense but I will not go for the enemy quarterback, that is cheap"

NeoLocutus
03-21-2017, 02:29 PM
Dominion 4vs4. A fun even match fighting with and against equal skill people. Pretty fun even if people kill me, i do it too.Both sides reach the 1000 poins around same time. We prepare to the most fun moment of the match, we ll try our skill bring us the victory... and the some one use a simple skill as Catapult is, kill 3 memebers of one side at the same time and the match is over. Do you think its fun because you won? i dont, sorry. To me is not fun win at any price, to me is fun the match itself even if i lose but no cheap tactics involved.

They should rip heroes of their techniques in MOBA games then.

Why using the Catapult can't be a matter of skill? They use it at the right time, they butcher your team and win. Yeah sure, it may be considered a lucky shot, but I have to praise their audacity in trying it.

In example, in one of my latest Dominion games as a Kensei I used the Unblockable technique when the enemy team was breaking. I wanted to help my team end the match fast, REALLY FAST. It may be considered a cheap move, but I know for a fact that the enemy can make a epic comeback (maybe with a cheap move too!) and win the match. I simply didn't want to give them any room to do that.

SJW_Kriegor
03-21-2017, 09:40 PM
When not alone in duels, I usually play For Honor with 2 friends in Deathmatches. We are all used to duels, with Win % well above 70% so the kind of players you see in deathmatches are usually no match for us. We play fair, because it's how we like to play the game, it's how we like to roleplay the game, and no we cannot go back to duels because we are so good friends. We play so fair that even if ganked, we do not gank in return. Even if some assassin keeps fleeing then coming back after taking an armor/health bonus, we always welcome him with another fair fight (until he flees again). We let our foe catch their breath after they have slain one of us. We even let him heal himself if we are full health and he is not. We do not trigger vengeance or any active perk on a 1on1 battle (we do when ganked or to retaliate against someone who just did).

Since we are only three, there is always an unfortunate 4th. I say "unfortunate 4th" because every two matches, we either have a guy who will cry in the chat because we are not helping him to kill his foe, or we have a guy who feels inspired by us and will cry against the opposing team for not playing our way (and ours alone). This game is so full of crying babies it sometimes makes me want to puke. I play online games since they basically exist (I play video games since 1989 and lan games since 1994). And really, completely honest here, never did I see so many crying babies. It's like the average population of For Honor is 4 years old or something. We play the game the way we want. The enemies are playing the game the way they want. Stop those tears. We won't say **** our fun to babysit you so you can finally kill someone for the first time. Find your own friends to share your playstyle. This is a video game.

AkenoKobayashi
03-21-2017, 09:53 PM
I always avoid doubling up on someone, especially if my teammate is winning. If a teammate jumps in on my fight, I'll use that time to retreat or I'll just watch them until one is dead. If you're so eager to fight my opponent for me, go right ahead. I will not, however, allow my enemy to execute my teammate. I will finish you off before you can do that. Everyone has their own personal definition of what it means to be honorable in this game. My rule is if you don't team up on me or my teammates, I won't do the same to you and your teammates. Being a Samurai, none of my characters have a cheese move other than zone attacks, in which only the Nobushi and Orochi have good ones. So I can't really do anything against cheesers.

Another aspect of why I don't like to team up is that I disrupt my teammate's attacks and GBs when I begin to wildly swing my big sword, or my giant spike log, or my freaking spear. When they start attacking my opponent, it disrupts my GB or staggers my attack that may have decided the battle, or it consumes my uninterruptable stance and therefore puts me at a disadvantage. If you play a character with bleed, you have a risk of causing your teammate to bleed when you wildly attack in a mob. I've killed my own teammates when I come in swinging my weapon.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-21-2017, 10:00 PM
See here is someone who just doesn't get it. It's not your opponent. Your opponent is in a duel. In a 4v4 match its an opposing player. It's not your opponent. If it were only your opponent then each person would be required to kill their opponent first. It's an opponent and you're completely missing the boat. You do not have a singular target. Your teammates do not have a singular target. Your job as a team is to kill the opposing team as rapidly as possible and avoid being killed in the meantime. If you're standing by watching your teammate die you're giving away points to the opposing team, which is at its most simple helping the opposing team. You're playing for both sides and that's a problem.


I always avoid doubling up on someone, especially if my teammate is winning. If a teammate jumps in on my fight, I'll use that time to retreat or I'll just watch them until one is dead. If you're so eager to fight my opponent for me, go right ahead. I will not, however, allow my enemy to execute my teammate. I will finish you off before you can do that. Everyone has their own personal definition of what it means to be honorable in this game. My rule is if you don't team up on me or my teammates, I won't do the same to you and your teammates. Being a Samurai, none of my characters have a cheese move other than zone attacks, in which only the Nobushi and Orochi have good ones. So I can't really do anything against cheesers.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
03-21-2017, 10:00 PM
This is a serious question and I really want to get an answer, because people who claim they are playing with "honor" are absolutely ruining 4v4 modes. I've had countless games where teammates would just sit back and watch me or other teammates die and get executed rather than help us because they claim to be playing with "honor", just for them to end up not being able to win and costing us the round because they felt like roleplaying in a team based game mode.

Standing back and watching your team lose/get executed is absolutely griefing, especially when it ends up costing us the round/game. So my question is can people be punished if I report them for playing ((((((honorably))))))?

I'd love for a community manager to set this straight for everyone.

Everyone has different play styles, and they both hate each other.

AkenoKobayashi
03-21-2017, 10:11 PM
See here is someone who just doesn't get it. It's not your opponent. Your opponent is in a duel. In a 4v4 match its an opposing player. It's not your opponent. If it were only your opponent then each person would be required to kill their opponent first. It's an opponent and you're completely missing the boat. You do not have a singular target. Your teammates do not have a singular target. Your job as a team is to kill the opposing team as rapidly as possible and avoid being killed in the meantime. If you're standing by watching your teammate die you're giving away points to the opposing team, which is at its most simple helping the opposing team. You're playing for both sides and that's a problem.

Well, when you put it that way, then I understand. I just felt that since I hated being ganged up on and would rather be given a chance to fight each of my opponents, regardless of whether or not I would succeed. If I showed that kind of courtesy then they might show it back. But 9.10, they will not. So it's best to assume they won't. But do you apply this to all of the 4v4 modes or just Dominion or Skirmish? In a Dominion or Skirmish, then of course I will be more aggressive, but this is mostly for Elimination. I've defeated my initial opponent, now you need to defeat yours, and I will mop up if you fail. But when the enemy is capable of respawning, then by all means let's go all in.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-21-2017, 10:11 PM
I'm all for people having different play styles.

If you don't want to throw someone off the ledge. Don't.
If you don't want to spam light attacks as a Peacekeeper. Don't.
If you don't want to spam headbutt-heavy-guardbreak as a Warlord. Don't.

I'm NEVER going to tell someone else not to do "INSERT DISPUTED TECHNIQUE HERE" because the way you play your game is a personal choice. I don't have to like it, but that's cool. But when you purposefully enter a team based game and then don't play as a team you're not talking about a play style anymore. You're talking about a clearly defined decision to play as a single player in a team based game and that's where my rub lies with the entire topic at hand. You've now created a 4v3 with one player who will join in when it fancies them. Team based concept games are conceptually pretty easy to understand.

No one in Call of Duty would allow someone to kill their teammate and then fight them after they've done so because 2 players attacking one player would be considered dishonorable.
No one in Smite would watch their teammate die while fighting another player, because you believed it to be dishonorable to help.
No one in Rainbow Six Siege would watch their teammate die while fighting another player during a hostage protection die, because you believed it to be dishonorable to help.
No one in Destiny would stand by in a crucible match and allow their teammate to die for fear of being called out for interfering with their one on one match up.

If this game were called Medieval Warfare NO ONE would be talking about the honor or lack of honor that shows up during the game, and it's infuriating to keep hearing about how there is a code that is driven by the name of a game. Instead, because the game has the word Honor in it we have this warped sense of loyalty to a code of conduct that isn't a part of the game and isn't a part of the game mode rules.


Everyone has different play styles, and they both hate each other.

xXl Plan B lXx
03-21-2017, 10:17 PM
I get what you're saying. I really do. I hate being ganged up on, but I also understand the component of the game that leads to it. If you're spawning that means I have a 4v3 advantage for 15 seconds (executed, 12 seconds if not). If I can kill another player during that time (4v4) then I now have a 4v2 advantage for say 7 seconds. If I can keep you in that spiral we're going to win more than we lose.

Overall, the game mode defines what is and isn't okay more than the "code of honor" people are talking about. Respect your teammates enough to know that the end game is to have more points on the board than the opposing team. If you're not good enough to win. Well regroup and try again. There is nothing wrong with failing. But failing to try to help? That's a huge problem for me and that's where I really have a problem with the code of conduct that is not written anywhere.


Well, when you put it that way, then I understand. I just felt that since I hated being ganged up on and would rather be given a chance to fight each of my opponents, regardless of whether or not I would succeed. If I showed that kind of courtesy then they might show it back. But 9.10, they will not. So it's best to assume they won't.

JesterSyxe
03-21-2017, 10:40 PM
The reason I don't engage most of the time is that the Fight becomes a Cluster**** of ******** allmost immediately when there are more then 2 People fighting against each other.
If I see it is only a 1vs1 I will try to find a good Moment to engage but as soon as there are 3 or more people I will go somewhere else.
The reason is simple, people don't fight controlled, they just Spam Attacks in all Directions not giving a **** what there Teammates are doing. I can not even recall the Number times some stupid Tard comes bashing in while I am fighting someone else hitting me, or stopping my attack, or pushing my Enemy away when I was about to finish him. Also I have died so many time because some ****ing Idiot did hit me in the back over and over again because he NEEDED THAT KILL. They just don't give a **** and they don't care they just Spam and ruin the Fight for everyone.
If it is a 1vs1 as I said I will probably engage but if it is 2vs1 or even 2vs2 I go somewhere else and I am alot better off doing this because I dont get hit by my own ******ed Teammates who don't use Voice, who don't use the Chat and who don't care about anything.

JesterSyxe
03-22-2017, 01:33 PM
I really doubt that you will be punished for playing the Game the way you want to play as long as it is not grieving or cheating. In this case it is just Playstyle and it should never be punished.

The_B0G_
03-23-2017, 02:37 PM
I've ran into this a few times where it was pretty frustrating, playing Dominion I seen a Conq on my team fighting a PK and getting his a$$ kicked at one of the capture points, I rushed in and charged the PK into a wall and got a few hits in and the PK recovered and started light spamming me, which is really hard to defend as an LB, I look around wondering where the Conq I just saved from being killed was and there he was... sitting off to the side, now watching me get my a$$ kicked.

I got killed, then the Conq got killed, I went to message him to tell him this is a 4v4 mode not a duel and his messaging was turned off, probably because of all the hate mail he gets. This guy went 0-5 that game and was a major contributor to the loss that match.

I have no idea how sitting back and watching a teammate die when you can help can even be considered honorable in the first place. Imagine being at a bar and someone is beating the head off one of your friends and you stand there and watch, "oh I'm just waiting for him to finish, then I'll fight him fairly".

Not helping teammates/allies when they are in trouble is anything but honorable.