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View Full Version : Why is the standard 4v4 modes all tied to gear? Anyone of the dev's played Destiny?



truecoins
03-17-2017, 10:23 PM
Gear stats is all good and fine, but having all the 4v4 modes tied to gear is lame, especially when playing new characters and getting placed against a team of full 108's


I thought the obvious solution would be to make 4v4 standard mode with gearstats turned OFF.... The way Destiny uses GEAR STATS is have an event every other week called "The Iron Banner" that last's a week with gear stats turned on. Another gear stats ON mode is called. "The Trial of Osiris" A 3v3 elimination mode that is every weekend. These modes usually give unique awards, bonus experience etc. I think the obvious solution to the boring "events" that instead of playing 500000000 domination games. That the events should be more like The Iron Banner or Trials of Osiris.

So with that said, the events should give bonus rewards, unique loot, and some loot chests.

Also Elimination. The BOOSTS need to pop up either after the first death, or within a certain time limit. Too many times i seen my enemy literally a few feet away and just inch toward it and get it within what feels like a second. Even if it's not right in front of my enemy... as a shogoki or lawbringer player my opponent can instantly run away at the start of the round from me to a power-up several feet away and there is literally nothing i can do to stop this.


Also this goes without saying LOOT stats are boring and not balance due to why anyone would choose throw distance over revenge mode attack/gained by injury..

Easy fix to Gear stats and revenge.

Group stats as following :

Attack.
Blocking damage dealt.
Revenge attack boost.
(New Stat)

Defence.
Blocking damage taken.
Revenge defence.
(New Stat)

Stamina cost.
Stamina regen.
Exaustion.

Revenge duration.
Revenge gain by injury.
Revenge gain by blocking.

Revive speed.
Running speed.
Execution health regain.

Feats cooldown.
Debuff resistance.
Throw distance.

Also i think it was missed opportunity to not have exotic gear that can be used in one slot. The could have cool passive affixes like, speed boosts after executions/bonus damage reduction. Chance to Stun/Blind effect on overhead attacks etc. In fact most passive "traits" seem like they are better off on these exotic gear, as it seems like most people use the active abilities instead.

buhahh125
03-17-2017, 10:33 PM
While I can understand your frustration, you will of course hear about 1v1 and 2v2 modes. That's a given. On the other hand, I have had matches where because we are better organized and played we beat that team of yellow's when we are not. Mind you those maybe few and far between. But moral of my story.....this isn't DESTINY! ^_^ And, at least providing the option to play that game mode without gear score affecting play is not too much to ask for.

truecoins
03-17-2017, 10:48 PM
i didn't say it was destiny, i was giving an example using Destiny on how gear stats work in events. Destiny isnt the only game to do this and was using it as an example as alot of people have played it. You would know this by reading past the title.

In other words it's not impossible but being forced with the only 4v4 mode with gear stats is dumb. I have 2 lvl 3 rep high 80 characters. Doesnt mean i want to steam roll noobs because it's part of the game. And since you still say adding a game mode without gear score isnt something to much to ask for. I'm guessing you never played Destiny because that is exactly what im asking for when i brought it up. A mode with NO GEAR score...but gear SCORE is still there but is on separate modes that are timed events. Having both modes at all times would also split the base too much which is why having it timed event would be ideal.

SirCorrino
03-17-2017, 11:09 PM
You're not entirely correct about Destiny. Gear stats are on in ALL crucible modes. You int/dis/str and weapon/armour perks all work in regular crucible. The only thing that is turned off is light levels, which isn't something that exists in FH. For those who don't know Light is basically a level system that goes up to 400 (most people at max character level is in the range of 350-400) and every 10 levels of difference in Light is ~1% damage done/taken. So it's not a massive difference, having the right weapon perks and stat distribution is much more important, but if the difference is big enough some weapons can one-shot to the body(high damage, low rate of fire snipers usually do ~97-98% of your max health in a body shot, so with a 20-30 Light difference it can one hit body shot instead of head shot). It's like if a higher rep character did more damage to a low rep character even without +atk on weapons. We don't have that here. So your whole IB/ToO argument falls flat (though I wouldn't mind something like that as timed events with special rewards).

truecoins
03-17-2017, 11:32 PM
You're not entirely correct about Destiny. Gear stats are on in ALL crucible modes. You int/dis/str and weapon/armour perks all work in regular crucible. The only thing that is turned off is light levels, which isn't something that exists in FH. For those who don't know Light is basically a level system that goes up to 400 (most people at max character level is in the range of 350-400) and every 10 levels of difference in Light is ~1% damage done/taken. So it's not a massive difference, having the right weapon perks and stat distribution is much more important, but if the difference is big enough some weapons can one-shot to the body(high damage, low rate of fire snipers usually do ~97-98% of your max health in a body shot, so with a 20-30 Light difference it can one hit body shot instead of head shot). It's like if a higher rep character did more damage to a low rep character even without +atk on weapons. We don't have that here. So your whole IB/ToO argument falls flat (though I wouldn't mind something like that as timed events with special rewards).

Yes there is Int/Disc/Str but they only effected cooldowns of abilties (STR useless for most subclasses) and didnt have people build revenge every second and 1 shot you and your entire team with other stats giving a bigger edge than anything in Destiny. Even tho light level in pvp was minuscule, it did give a little benefit to the highest light level vs the lowest. The whole point is not the "BALANCE" of Destiny but how they tied gear stats to actual timed EVENTS rather than being the only 4v4 mode right now. With zero scaling and how much MORE ADVANTAGE someone with max gear vs low gear compared to Destiny only proves this game would benefit from such timed EVENTS moreso than Destiny ever did.

Gray360UK
03-17-2017, 11:45 PM
You're not entirely correct about Destiny. Gear stats are on in ALL crucible modes. You int/dis/str and weapon/armour perks all work in regular crucible. The only thing that is turned off is light levels, which isn't something that exists in FH. For those who don't know Light is basically a level system that goes up to 400 (most people at max character level is in the range of 350-400) and every 10 levels of difference in Light is ~1% damage done/taken. So it's not a massive difference, having the right weapon perks and stat distribution is much more important, but if the difference is big enough some weapons can one-shot to the body(high damage, low rate of fire snipers usually do ~97-98% of your max health in a body shot, so with a 20-30 Light difference it can one hit body shot instead of head shot). It's like if a higher rep character did more damage to a low rep character even without +atk on weapons. We don't have that here. So your whole IB/ToO argument falls flat (though I wouldn't mind something like that as timed events with special rewards).

You seem to have left out the part where weapon damage and armour is normalized in Destiny, that is the key part, not the absence of Light Levels. It doesn't matter what gun you have, the worst in the game, the best in the game, they'll all hit for the same amount of base damage. Likewise regardless of armour, all players will take the same amount of shots to kill. There is a reason Iron Banner is harder, and it is entirely because if your gun is better or your armour is better, you will now kill faster or be harder to kill. The system in Destiny was designed to make a level 5 able to take on a level 20 with no problems at all. Light Levels have little to do with it.

Applied to FH, it would enable a level 7 Raider with 10 gear score to take on a level 100 Raider with 108 gear score. Both would have the same attack / defence.

Munktor
03-17-2017, 11:51 PM
You seem to have left out the part where weapon damage and armour is normalized in Destiny, that is the key part, not the absence of Light Levels. It doesn't matter what gun you have, the worst in the game, the best in the game, they'll all hit for the same amount of base damage. Likewise regardless of armour, all players will take the same amount of shots to kill. There is a reason Iron Banner is harder, and it is entirely because if your gun is better or your armour is better, you will now kill faster or be harder to kill. The system in Destiny was designed to make a level 5 able to take on a level 20 with no problems at all. Light Levels have little to do with it.

Applied to FH, it would enable a level 7 Raider with 10 gear score to take on a level 100 Raider with 108 gear score. Both would have the same attack / defence.

Same base amount of damage per weapon class, but various rates of fire. Long ago it was shown in that game how RoF > Damage.

Gray360UK
03-18-2017, 12:04 AM
Same base amount of damage per weapon class, but various rates of fire. Long ago it was shown in that game how RoF > Damage.

Oh yeah of course, the various trade-offs for using a handgun, assault rifle, sniper rifle etc all still existed, and all the variations within those types as well.
But the basic principle that you could be a level 5 noob with an Uncommon assault rifle and compete with a level 100 full time raider packing an Exotic assault rifle holds true. You might have other disadvantages from not unlocking your special abilities, but I think in general they did a pretty good job of levelling the playing field in Destiny.
Of course I was never a level 5 noob with an Uncommon assault rifle, I was the other guy :D