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View Full Version : Orochi nerf needs to happen ASAP, auto attacks follow running targets



Mengtheman
03-17-2017, 11:51 AM
I know lotta yall gonna be like butthurt and all. But Orochi needs his auto follow attack taken out. All his attacks follow a moving target, dodging and or running, it's ridiculous. I know a lot of people play the Orochi and they must admit this Orochi nerf needs to happen as well. It's so ridiculous. Warden doesn't have auto follow attacks, why should Orochi? Oncd Ubisoft takes out Orochi's cheap auto attack follow, Orochi can hace my respect. But as of now, he poisons and auto attack follows a running target, it's laughable if Orochi players think they win by using skills, when in reality. Orochi just has auto attack follow.

secrecy274
03-17-2017, 12:01 PM
I don't agree, Orochi definitely doesn't need a nerf, and I'm saying that as a Lawbringer

DrinkinMehStella
03-17-2017, 12:08 PM
a good orochi player is deadly but does not need a nerf at all, i have learnt to defend against her and and parry. When she does her running attack i keep well back or roll out the way. every hero has advantages and disadvantages.

Mengtheman
03-17-2017, 12:09 PM
I don't agree, Orochi definitely doesn't need a nerf, and I'm saying that as a Lawbringer

You must admit though. His auto follow attacks.

Mengtheman
03-17-2017, 12:12 PM
a good orochi player is deadly but does not need a nerf at all, i have learnt to defend against her and and parry. When she does her running attack i keep well back or roll out the way.

Not that lunge draw cut. I mean when the Orochi's opponent runs away. Orochi has too good and regular auto follow attack that is able to still hit a moving target.

Danioku
03-17-2017, 12:17 PM
Orochi gameplay from lvl 1 to Rep30 :

- Top light
- ZA
- some random GB attempt

end of those "hard to play" mechanincs XD

He's so bad designed and so useless that should be completely reworked

Mengtheman
03-17-2017, 12:23 PM
Orochi gameplay from lvl 1 to Rep30 :

- Top light
- ZA
- some random GB attempt

end of those "hard to play" mechanincs XD

He's so bad designed and so useless that should be completely reworked

Finally. Someone that admits Orochi has auto attack that follows a running target. His regular attacks will still follow and hit you, even if you're sprinting. I'm not talking bout his lunge draw cut.

Mengtheman
03-17-2017, 12:34 PM
Pretty much this. Played since alpha and again used Orochi enough to reach rep4 with him; he eats those who haven't learned proper defence yet. He really struggles against those who learned. Look at the kits of the other assassins. Maybe they seem not as stylish on first glance, but they have more options and variety.

Nevertheless, one can still enjoy Orochi - or even Kensei as i do right now. I say: f*** the current balancing, all do know it does kinda suck, but it will get better. Enjoy your favorites and maybe even hope they belong to the weaker ones. Buff inbound :)
And it is way better to get stronger then experience nerfs.

He will still try to grab and do his ridiculous and funny roll on top of you thing and try to get a free hit, and Orochi hits hard after that funny grab. That would never work in real life lol. Here, opponent. Let me twirl and spin around and mysteriously I kill you. O_o

secrecy274
03-17-2017, 12:50 PM
He will still try to grab and do his ridiculous and funny roll on top of you thing and try to get a free hit, and Orochi hits hard after that funny grab. That would never work in real life lol. Here, opponent. Let me twirl and spin around and mysteriously I kill you. O_o

While I don't agree nor disagree with your argument, the whole realism thing doesn't belong anywhere close to this game, since very few weapons would actually be able to pierce the knights, much less the Lawbringers, armor. IRL a Peacekeeper would have to aim for the slits in his helmet or a few other points to even get through, and even that would be a stretch. In fact, the samurai and the vikings would both get pretty much beaten by the Knights, since the samurai lacks armor piercing weapons and the vikings lack... armor.

atac56
03-17-2017, 02:55 PM
you must lose to orochi a lot. he's as basic as it gets. no unblockables, no long combo strings, no bleed damage, and dare I say his attacks have a high block window. his leap slash thatll follow you is easily blocked even if you turn around late. unlike the peacekeeper, the orochi is easy to run away from.

Dekallis
03-17-2017, 03:08 PM
Clearly you're doing something wrong. I'm a Raider. I can dodge. Raider has the shortest dodge of all chars in game....therefore whatever you're doing you're doing it wrong.

CLaw2017
03-17-2017, 03:26 PM
I agree.

Sirborkshire
03-17-2017, 03:55 PM
I know lotta yall gonna be like butthurt and all. But Orochi needs his auto follow attack taken out. All his attacks follow a moving target, dodging and or running, it's ridiculous. I know a lot of people play the Orochi and they must admit this Orochi nerf needs to happen as well. It's so ridiculous. Warden doesn't have auto follow attacks, why should Orochi? Oncd Ubisoft takes out Orochi's cheap auto attack follow, Orochi can hace my respect. But as of now, he poisons and auto attack follows a running target, it's laughable if Orochi players think they win by using skills, when in reality. Orochi just has auto attack follow.

You say they have no skill BUT you're the one running away...stand and fight ya wuss

Wolf-Heathen
03-17-2017, 04:18 PM
you must lose to orochi a lot. he's as basic as it gets. no unblockables, no long combo strings, no bleed damage, and dare I say his attacks have a high block window. his leap slash thatll follow you is easily blocked even if you turn around late. unlike the peacekeeper, the orochi is easy to run away from.

Wrong. unblockable on deflect, and guaranteed top heavy off a GB.

BanzaiPizzaLord
03-17-2017, 04:35 PM
Deflect is useless at the moment and orochi get GB punish instead.
Some people has already said it, orochi has only 2 effective atk : top light and zone atk so this char is very predictable.

Actually i'm tired to read all this posts about orochi nerf, i copy/paste my own comments :

"It's funny but you can recognize easily a novice on this game : if he complains about orochi being OP, he's definitely a beginner.

Every good players know how to counter orochi and which class are the top tiers (Warlord, Warden, Conqueror and Peacekeeper)
I mean, the results of all tournaments are pretty obvious, Orochi can't be competitive with the top tiers classes at the moment. Period. "

DunkinDzNutz
03-17-2017, 04:45 PM
While I don't agree nor disagree with your argument, the whole realism thing doesn't belong anywhere close to this game, since very few weapons would actually be able to pierce the knights, much less the Lawbringers, armor. IRL a Peacekeeper would have to aim for the slits in his helmet or a few other points to even get through, and even that would be a stretch. In fact, the samurai and the vikings would both get pretty much beaten by the Knights, since the samurai lacks armor piercing weapons and the vikings lack... armor.

All the Japanese weapons in the game are armor piercing..except fattys..that's just blunt force trauma. Japanese bladed weapons are the finest ever made..even to this day..that plate armor wouldn't stand a chance. But yes comparing this to IRL is nonsensical.

Knight_Gregor
03-17-2017, 04:46 PM
The Orochi in itself isn't the problem. The problem is the same as with all fast hitting moves. Orochi, Peacekeeper, and Nobushi, Also, to a certain extent, Warden and Valkyrie.

The poor network choices (Say what you will about dedicated servers not fixing the problem) allow for abusing these attacks. Most likely they aren't intentionally abused. At this point it is what it is.

frostlord30
03-18-2017, 10:42 PM
I thnk the orochi needs a buff or a rework. He is so ***in slow, he can stomp on noobs but gets ****t on in high level play. He dosent have any combos, and isnt fast. He is the weakest assasin. He really needs a big buff or a rework. Somewhat like the valkery.

Thanapetus
03-18-2017, 10:47 PM
All the Japanese weapons in the game are armor piercing..except fattys..that's just blunt force trauma. Japanese bladed weapons are the finest ever made..even to this day..that plate armor wouldn't stand a chance. But yes comparing this to IRL is nonsensical.

Actually NO. Samurai would be severely handicapped vs Knights and to a certain extent vikings.

http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=31590

The swords were much too light to pierce armor. Quit watching anime

CitizenPuddi
03-18-2017, 10:57 PM
if you're running away, just roll or quickly guardmode + block while you make your escape

it's not just the orochi that can jump what feels like halfway across the map to a moving target (zerker forward dash heavy, just to name one)

CitizenPuddi
03-18-2017, 11:04 PM
more importantly-- far more important than your original post

how do you maintain a 97.1% winrate?

rlyson? (https://fhtracker.com/profile/psn/mengtheman)

on top of that, how does someone with a 97.1% winrate find reason to complain about anything?

solho
03-18-2017, 11:47 PM
Dont try to argue with people who think Orochi is op, they are new and as they dont learn to play. Most who start playing obviously dont know how to play or are bad, but when they learn a little they realize that orochi really is the easiest class to play. all newbie or bad players hate orochi its the ritual in for honor.

DunkinDzNutz
05-18-2017, 03:57 AM
Actually NO. Samurai would be severely handicapped vs Knights and to a certain extent vikings.

http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=31590

The swords were much too light to pierce armor. Quit watching anime


I would never watch that garbage..

but my 10 years of Japanese martial arts weapons training as well a simple youtube search must not be as acceptable as some keyboard warriors talking out of thier arses.

My Oniyuri cuts through steel..but what do I know.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-18-2017, 04:03 AM
Bezerker main here.



Orochi is fine as is.

Antonioj26
05-18-2017, 04:07 AM
I would never watch that garbage..

but my 10 years of Japanese martial arts weapons training as well a simple youtube search must not be as acceptable as some keyboard warriors talking out of thier arses.

My Oniyuri cuts through steel..but what do I know.

This thread is 2 months old why would you bump it? Just let it die

Mia.Nora
05-18-2017, 04:09 AM
Not saying Oroichi attacks do not have homing pigeon property, but so doe Kensei's.

But nothing compares to Centurion, who does a 180 degrees when you dodge behind him.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-18-2017, 04:12 AM
Also Orochi's attacks aren't the only ones that will hit a running target.


90% of the Heroes have an attack that does that.

Moondyne_MC
05-18-2017, 04:15 AM
Is it just me, or do half the people on these forums have "extensive weapon training" of some kind?

CoyoteXStarrk
05-18-2017, 04:18 AM
Is it just me, or do half the people on these forums have "extensive weapon training" of some kind?

Oh thats nothing.


There are idiots here who claim to have PHDs and Law Degrees lol

xATMxLILMARC
05-18-2017, 06:10 AM
Shut your mouth. Orochi doesnt need a nerf at all. Just because you cant fight a particular opponent doesn't mean he needs a nerf, just means you arent good enough to fight him

Kaotic_CipherTV
05-18-2017, 07:18 AM
guys.. this thread is from march..

DrExtrem
05-18-2017, 07:36 AM
I would never watch that garbage..

but my 10 years of Japanese martial arts weapons training as well a simple youtube search must not be as acceptable as some keyboard warriors talking out of thier arses.

My Oniyuri cuts through steel..but what do I know.

Maybe, because it is made out of modern steel and you hit a subpar, thin armor piece with the perfect angle. "cutting" steel is a bad idea, because your blade is very likely to deflect off your enemies armor. German longswords were as sharp, as katanas and they were able to cut a femur with one strike. Still, the swordsmen of that time had to come up with special techniques to break the enemies armor.
Usually with half swording, because it allows more control over the blades tip. Goal was, to pierce a weak spot, were the armor did not overlap perfectly. Another technique was the mordhau - bluntly hammering your opponents armor, to limit their movement and to open up gaps. It wad off course very helpful, if you were able to deform the helmet ... together with the head.

Full armor was to effective, that they had to redesign swords to pure long "needles" like the estoc. The rabenschnabel was specially designed to pierce armor, because swords - while still highly effective against less armored footmen, was not very effective against armored fighters.

A fight one on one between two highly skilled warriors like a knight and a samurai are open and basically decided by the weather. It boils down to "who passes out first" from overheating inside the armor or who falls to the ground first. The samurais armor offered a few more open gaps though - namely the legs.

Even in japan, it was common to utilize armor breaking techniques to beat armored opponents. This would not have been the case, if a sword was able to cut armor. The presence of armor itself is evidence enough. Why would I wear armor, if I don't get a benefit from it? Why spend a fortune, if it hinders my view and mobility, without offering protection from blades?

kweassa1917
05-18-2017, 08:04 AM
Maybe, because it is made out of modern steel and you hit a subpar, thin armor piece with the perfect angle. "cutting" steel is a bad idea, because your blade is very likely to deflect off your enemies armor. German longswords were as sharp, as katanas and they were able to cut a femur with one strike. Still, the swordsmen of that time had to come up with special techniques to break the enemies armor.
Usually with half swording, because it allows more control over the blades tip. Goal was, to pierce a weak spot, were the armor did not overlap perfectly. Another technique was the mordhau - bluntly hammering your opponents armor, to limit their movement and to open up gaps. It wad off course very helpful, if you were able to deform the helmet ... together with the head.

Full armor was to effective, that they had to redesign swords to pure long "needles" like the estoc. The rabenschnabel was specially designed to pierce armor, because swords - while still highly effective against less armored footmen, was not very effective against armored fighters.

A fight one on one between two highly skilled warriors like a knight and a samurai are open and basically decided by the weather. It boils down to "who passes out first" from overheating inside the armor or who falls to the ground first. The samurais armor offered a few more open gaps though - namely the legs.

Even in japan, it was common to utilize armor breaking techniques to beat armored opponents. This would not have been the case, if a sword was able to cut armor. The presence of armor itself is evidence enough. Why would I wear armor, if I don't get a benefit from it? Why spend a fortune, if it hinders my view and mobility, without offering protection from blades?

Just for the purpose of supplement, the development of half-swording techniques is a good topic to study just how effective armor was.

Also, if we really go into Japanese martial arts, the sword tecniques from the Sengoku era and latter-modern era are totally different, and most of the techniques they practice in Kendo is derived AFTER the Sengoku era was over. The swordplay techniques that actually did exist during the Sengoku era is called "old styles", and its techniques consist of a "total package" of subduing the opponent which includes striking and grappling in significant detail -- because, just like in the west, armored opponents weren't easy to simply cut down in one or two strokes, unlike in the movies. Therefore the "old styles" involves a lot of close-quarters fights to unbalance, throw down, subdue the enemy and use that moment to land a fatal strik in relatively unprotected areas.

Even against unarmed opponents, the Japanese sword style usually emphasized stabs to the abdomen, and cuts to the head and neck area as potentially lethal attacks, and rated the effectiveness of strikes against the torso as lower -- because in the heat of battle, a strike landing on the opponents torso might be too shallow, because it is protected by ribcages.


Cutting stuff that's totally lying still, at an ideal angle and height, is totally different from trying to hit a moving target. You can train yourself to punch/chop through bricks and rocks with your bare hands, and kill a person with a single strike that way if they just stand there offering no resistance -- but against moving targets, totally different story.


That's the whole reason people wear armor -- to survive.

CaynAldan
05-18-2017, 10:51 AM
All the Japanese weapons in the game are armor piercing..except fattys..that's just blunt force trauma. Japanese bladed weapons are the finest ever made..even to this day..that plate armor wouldn't stand a chance. But yes comparing this to IRL is nonsensical.

Hum... you know japanese steel is the worst steel ever found, right? Because of that they don't use metal armors, nor need nor want to for not damaging thiers sword. They need to work steel a lot more to give them the flexibility to be effective.
They have well deseigned weapons, but no chance against medieval steel, any blacksmith can certified that. Speaking about ancient sword, not actually modern japanese sword with steel from any place of the world.

Scorpion1980Lma
05-18-2017, 11:44 AM
lmao seriously... orochi nerf... ha ha. i almost wet my pants.

kweassa1917
05-18-2017, 12:32 PM
Hum... you know japanese steel is the worst steel ever found, right? Because of that they don't use metal armors, nor need nor want to for not damaging thiers sword. They need to work steel a lot more to give them the flexibility to be effective.
They have well deseigned weapons, but no chance against medieval steel, any blacksmith can certified that. Speaking about ancient sword, not actually modern japanese sword with steel from any place of the world.

...not to mention that the general social/economical conditions of the far-East made it possible to emphasize a "total-war" scale warfare, with powerful and sophisticated bureaucracy and highly productive farming making it possible to support large population and raising huge number of forces than compared to a bit "paltry" number of troops usually seen in Europe.

So it didn't make much sense, nor was it efficient, to equip individual soldiers with very high levels of arms and armor. Like Stalin is to have once said, "Quantity is a quality of its own". Around the time the French would muster around 20 thousand to fight the English in an epic battle, all three major countries in the Far East were using around 200 thousand troops in regular wars,... so it tends to be a bit easier to equip a few hundred~few thousand knights in fully clad steel, than having to equip something like 100 thousand infantry and 50 thousand cavalry with that quality of armor. :D