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View Full Version : Question: Do the Heroes REALLY need to be balanced ???



UCFierce
03-15-2017, 02:00 PM
Here is a question for the For Honor Community:
Do the Heroes REALLY need to be balanced ???

Think about it, and seriously give some thought to your answers -

Do I really need to be the equal of a Lawbringer when I go up again them with a PeaceKeeper ?
Does a Valk really need to be the equal of a Beserker ?

Is there no satisfaction when taking a lesser Hero and defeating a more Over Powered one ?
Each Hero serves a specific role in games like Dominion -
When playing one vs one duels are you realistically going to expect each Hero to be equally balanced ?

To me its like comparing the old days of NASCAR to today's modern format. (A For Honor analogy)
Way back when - Dodge, Chevy, Ford all battled it out with each manufacturer's specific AND UNIQUE advantages - no one expected cars to be equal or balanced.
Today the vehicles themselves are "supposed" to all be equal, with the variable factor the Driver.
But does that make for BETTER racing ?

Back to For Honor: Do you REALLY want balanced Heroes ???

Brave_Thunder
03-15-2017, 02:17 PM
Surely the balance is a must for the game.It may be great to beat a warden with an lb,but you can't justify lb status sayng "Eh,he's op in teamfights".I could not care less of gank modes,in duels only your skill matter.And why should I race with a slower car against a faster one?On the long run,the driver of the faster car will always be better than me,since I have handicapped myself.That's why metas are a thing in competitive games.The challenge lies in making the meta an advantage,not a must.For example,Lol got It right.Ow,on the other hand.....6 viable heroes out of 23.That's what you want to avoid if you want to avoid a stale game.

Yarzahn
03-15-2017, 02:25 PM
Back to For Honor: Do you REALLY want balanced Heroes ???



Yes, I do.
Any fighting game that has aspirations of taking itself seriously with any form of a competiive mode should strive for 1v1 balance.
When I win or lose, I want to do it was because i played better or worse than my enemy, missed opportunities/ made more mistakes. Not simply because "oh I'm playing raider, he can predict and prevent every single one of my attacks and i have the dash/dodge speed of a turtle".

Alustar.
03-15-2017, 02:30 PM
I was actually going to post something similar, but I'll comment here instead! Lol
This is how I feel. I run PK and berserker mainly and I age whole heartedly. Individually, I prefer to spec for higher mobility and speed over more about and heavier attacks.
Another thing people over look in this game is proper group mechanics. Any successful pvp group needs to have roles. You have your main tanks to help keep aggro and reduce risk of the letter fighters going down. Then you need harrassers and interrupted a. Crowd control to keep other the other team on the defensive, and lastly your attackers. The guys responsible for keeping the field clear for objectives.

You can try to balance everything across the board, but people will still complain. Balance comes about when you acknowledge the strengths and weaknesses of your group, then play your strong cards while mitigating risk factors.

Gray360UK
03-15-2017, 02:38 PM
It's okay for classes to have different strengths and weaknesses. I think that's what a lot of people forget.
What some call 'balance' seems to be all classes hit at the same speed, have the same speed light attack or zone attack, can dodge the same or evade the same. Funny they never want those classes to have the same armour or range or throw distance or heal abilities or ability to block from all directions that they have though ...
We would end up with 12 different 'looking' characters who actually all do the same thing, which would be dire.

It's okay to lose, and get beaten.
Just not every time by the same one class.
At present I don't believe there is an unkillable class.

So far it seems when Ubisoft do make changes they are more in favour of buffing the weak, rather than a constant campaign of nerfs. This is a good thing and I hope they stick to this approach. A solid set of characters with different play styles and strengths and weaknesses, but all viable in their own way, rather than no character is allowed to have a strength.

Just because people always flock to the most EZ mode option and then weak willed people cry for nerfs, doesn't mean that EZ mode class is the issue. You'll often find they can be taken down by anyone 'good' playing one of the other classes, but people don't want to learn to counter or overcome and cry nerf instead.

It's the same on the Battlefield 1 forums, X gun is OP, tanks are OP, X Grenade is OP ... but wait, I just finished top for kills and I wasn't using that gun, I just killed 10 people who were using that OP gun, I just blew up that OP tank. In Destiny it was the Thorn gun, everyone used it, automatic rifles like the Suros Regime were no longer any good. But wait ... I just killed someone with my Suros Regime and they were using Thorn. Shouldn't I be dead? :rolleyes:

UCFierce
03-15-2017, 02:44 PM
Thus if your preferred game mode is single combat/one on one duels it would be incumbent on YOU the player to adapt to your chosen Heroes' strengths and weaknesses.
I wouldn't expect that a single Hero would even play in a similar style given the flexibility of individual's choices given Weapon attributes and gear.
I would then guess that would then defer to the question -
Which game mode do you prefer ? 1 vs 1 with NO weapon/gear attributes; 1 vs 1 with Weapon/gear attributes; OR Multiple Player game modes ?

Which harkens back to the original question - is it incumbent upon UbiSoft to make Heroes "balanced" given that those same heroes will be used in vastly different game modes?

Alustar.
03-15-2017, 02:46 PM
Just because people always flock to the most EZ mode option and then weak willed people cry for nerfs, doesn't mean that EZ mode class is the issue. You'll often find they can be taken down by anyone 'good' playing one of the other classes, but people don't want to learn to counter or overcome and cry nerf instead.

Exactly this!!!
Especially in a game that doesn't use a "hard lock" tab to target system for attacks. This is all based around your personal ability to read an opponent and dodge/block.
I'll start believing a class is OP when I see them consistently pulling double digit numbers without dying once in more than a few sparsely spread matches.

Extropy
03-15-2017, 02:47 PM
"Do we want balanced heroes?" lol, what are you gonna ask next, do we want dedicated servers? Do we want the game to stop crashing? Seriously. Right now every time I start duel matchmaking there's a 95% chance i'm gonna fight one of 6 classes. I would be having much more fun if i could fight all 12 classes. YES we want balanced heroes.


Is there no satisfaction when taking a lesser Hero and defeating a more Over Powered one ?

Sure, but that's never gonna happen in practice when you start facing really good players. You'd have to be the superbest player in the world and play the game high on amphetamines in order to beat one of the top tier PK or warden players with a lawbringer.

I'm sure Michael Schumacher (pre-coma) could beat my grandma (pre-death) in a race even if he were driving a WV beetle and my grandma was in a ferarri, but he wouldn't beat any other professional formula 1 driver under those circumstances. That's why all formula 1 drivers drive formula 1 cars, and not WV beetles.

Turric4n666
03-15-2017, 02:47 PM
Every char should be viable in 1on1 combat without gear. That is what the devs should strive for before anything else as the duel and brawl game mode are closer to something reminding esports than dominion will probably ever be.

DrinkinMehStella
03-15-2017, 02:48 PM
It's the same on the Battlefield 1 forums, X gun is OP, tanks are OP, X Grenade is OP ... but wait, I just finished top for kills and I wasn't using that gun, I just killed 10 people who were using that OP gun, I just blew up that OP tank. In Destiny it was the Thorn gun, everyone used it, automatic rifles like the Suros Regime were no longer any good. But wait ... I just killed someone with my Suros Regime and they were using Thorn. Shouldn't I be dead? :rolleyes:

Spot on! every single game everyone complain about exactly what you just mentioned, when you think about it i see a massive variety of heroes being used in this game rather than just 1 or 2, yes PK is very popular and used a lot but then again all the heroes are utilised so i suppose for honor is more balanced than everyone thinks.

Alustar.
03-15-2017, 02:58 PM
Before you cry nerf or balance check, first try playing the classes you are complaining about? Learn how they move and what they can/can't do, then exploit that in combat.
I had problems with nobushi, so I fought bots till I got used to their attack pattern. Now it's easy.
I've had trouble with blocking berserker change ups. So I practiced against that.
Hell, I even decided I wanted practice on my PK in 2-4v1 fights, so I threw in three boots and soloed them. If you aren't training yourself for different situations, don't blame others for your short comings

Buccs99
03-15-2017, 03:11 PM
My main character is a raider. I have zero problems with any character. Know the strengths and weaknesses and moveset of each character. Make a gameplan for them. Raider is slow but can hit like a tank. so when i face against pk's and zerks i tend to keep my distance and try to begin my heavy swing to either keep there distance or to connect my chain of attacks with the RT,RB,RT(or fury). i also rely on my light combo, pommel strike in tight spaces, and throws. the shigoki i have the most problems with because of the hyper armor but if i use my feints and parries correctly, i can beat him pretty soundly.