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Delectable_Sin
03-15-2017, 05:44 AM
And by that I mean all of the ridiculous environmental kills. I would much rather there are no environmental kills in the entire game. Something silly like stumbling back from blocking a heavy attack, or your team mate GB'ing the enemy into you, or someone countering your GB -- all of these things can kill you, and it's utterly ridiculous. Random circumstances killing your character should never happen in a skill based game.

I honestly feel like I should be playing Shoots and Ladders or some other luck based game, with some of the kills that happen in this game.

SangLong524
03-15-2017, 05:46 AM
It's nothing new

Delectable_Sin
03-15-2017, 05:50 AM
It's nothing new

Really? Because there are no one shot grab kills in Tekken, FN, MK, or any of the other awesome fighting games out there.

SangLong524
03-15-2017, 06:00 AM
Sure. Once upon the time, More than 5 years (i think) there once was a fighting game called God of War Ascension Multiplayer, where grapple (grab with a long hook chain), throws, jump block, jump slice, magic spam, map-specific items can knock someone's stupid *** off the ledge where one can hear him scream louder than the crybabies these days. Worse, there are certain weapons, which players carry all time, hsa special power that can fling u halfway across the map and out of it, result in a ring out, instant kill. Oh and there were runners. Smart f***kers who run, grab objectives, pour out magics like summer rain then run away. He'd be back in a 30s to unleash similar Hades on your hide again. And my, there was Rage state where some poor champion can get triggered after being killed repeatedly so many times. There are also map specific cameos (monsters) that can be use by either team, or against both teams. Those cameos can not be touched during match and can one shot any sorry soul caught in their wake.
Pleassse, For Honor hardly do anything new here.

Butonfly
03-15-2017, 07:07 AM
Couple of options
1) Leave it as it
2) Environmental kills only when target is out of stam
3) Environmental kills only when target is below 50% HP

Otherwise target just bounces off, or falls down / whatever animation you want to work with

Turric4n666
03-15-2017, 07:22 AM
How about soul Calibur?

secrecy274
03-15-2017, 09:24 AM
How about soul Calibur?

Damn it, beat me to it.

Anyway, to OP.
Environmental kills kills are not random though.
If you get shoved off a cliff by a CGB, that's on you, not your opponent, you were the one with poor positioning. He should not let you get a free GB because he "might" knock you off if he Counters.

As a Lawbringer I've Shoved people of ledges plenty of times by accident when they sidestep attack me with a ledge just behind them, using Shove after a block is pure reflex for me.

Having awareness of you surroundings is important.
However, that's completely void once you meet a Warlord :/

lucasnrachel
03-15-2017, 09:34 AM
How about soul Calibur?

It's a good game, not much in the way of multiplayer.

Would kind of like to see a team link kill. That would be a sweet idea. You get credit in certain modes anyway and it's a gamble since you would be in an animation if anyone else is still alive.

DerHerbman
03-15-2017, 10:03 AM
If your on a edge, expect a GB and counter it. But I agree that there are to many open spots on the map, especially in 1v1 or 2vs2.

And yes it's not the only game! Soul Calibur, Bushido Blade, Def Jam, Virtual Fighter and so on

"A ring out occurs when a character leaves a stage(mostly due to falling off stage because of being forced by opponent or bad timing) and automaticly loses round/match. This is a common concept in fighting games." (GiantBomb)

Captain-Courage
03-15-2017, 10:18 AM
Soul Calibur has it.
Virtua fighter has it
Mortal Kombat has it
Even Fatal Fury has it
That's called a "ring out".

And every arena brawler has it
And for Honor is barely a fighting game, more an arena brawler like Power Stone, with swords.

By the way, all medieval sword fighting games has environmental kills also, Mount and blade and Chivalry MW for example

Yarzahn
03-15-2017, 12:30 PM
Sure. Once upon the time, More than 5 years (i think) there once was a fighting game called God of War Ascension Multiplayer, where grapple (grab with a long hook chain), throws, jump block, jump slice, magic spam, map-specific items can knock someone's stupid *** off the ledge where one can hear him scream louder than the crybabies these days. Worse, there are certain weapons, which players carry all time, hsa special power that can fling u halfway across the map and out of it, result in a ring out, instant kill. Oh and there were runners. Smart f***kers who run, grab objectives, pour out magics like summer rain then run away. He'd be back in a 30s to unleash similar Hades on your hide again. And my, there was Rage state where some poor champion can get triggered after being killed repeatedly so many times. There are also map specific cameos (monsters) that can be use by either team, or against both teams. Those cameos can not be touched during match and can one shot any sorry soul caught in their wake.
Pleassse, For Honor hardly do anything new here.

Last I checked, God of War was a single player franchise that dabbled (unsuccessfully) with a multiplayer mode just for giggles.
Maybe you played a different God of War Ascension than me.

And last I checked, For Honor aspired to be a competitive multiplayer fighting game (this is what I assume, considering the absence of proper single player content, excluding a half-arsed campaign). But environmental kills, although often unfair, have a portion of skill to them. You need to be aware of your surroundings. You need to mind your positioning and the enemies. Especially if you are fighting big throwers like raider (lol) or lawbringer.

It's hard for me to tell what For Honor aspired to be, because I have never seen a company try to launch a multiplayer/ e-sports game without proper Server Support, proper Matchmaking and a Ranked mode.

For Honor seems like "dear playerbase, here, we made this really cool gameplay/ combat, now do something with it, because we aren't gonna bother providing you with any multiplayer support, proper competitive systems or even a good single player, but we are still gonna charge you full price + full expansion price for future content + try to shove steel microtransactions down your throats"

Simi_Xiamara_
03-15-2017, 03:28 PM
I personal don't mind one shot environmental kills only problem is there is just way to my of them.

Funny story I thought I was safe from a edge cuz I was pretty decent distance away from it and warlord grabs me and throws me all the way to the edge of the ledge. Moral of the story no where is safe from a max throw warlord

ArlianDeBias
03-15-2017, 03:35 PM
Couple of options
1) Leave it as it
2) Environmental kills only when target is out of stam
3) Environmental kills only when target is below 50% HP

Otherwise target just bounces off, or falls down / whatever animation you want to work with

I don't have a problem with environmental kills personally, but if Ubisoft was to change it I really like the second option you proposed.

It would add even more importance to keeping your stamina in the green.

Munktor
03-15-2017, 03:35 PM
Really? Because there are no one shot grab kills in Tekken, FN, MK, or any of the other awesome fighting games out there.

Actually, multiple fighting games have had various types of "ring out" mechanics where a single throw could win the match.

Besides that point, you recognize that For Honor is not trying to be a traditional 2D fighting game right? They don't want to be exactly like MK or SF or even TK. They're trying to incorporate elements of traditional fighting games within a new structure.

Part of that is environmental kills. It's a core part of the gameplay. You don't have to like it, and obviously you're allowed to present your opinion of it. But it's rather foolish to make the argument that "no other fighting games do this" as well insinuate it should be removed simply because of such.

vilpire93
03-15-2017, 03:46 PM
Most times I die because I get pushed off it is entirely my fault for not paying attention where I stand. Watching your surroundings is a core skill of fighting (Star Wars Ep 3 is a good example, Obiwan won because he had the environmental advantage) and as such your own fault for getting shoved off.
BUT i do agree that there are way too much possibilities for environmental kills, especially in Duels and Brawls. Although I admit that I like the tension that those possible oneshots create, awesome adrenaline rush, every step can be your last and an error results in death. I love that.

Pope138
03-15-2017, 03:57 PM
My apologies to anyone who has already heard me express this opinion multiple times:

Environmental kills aren't a noob way to get kills, they're a noob way to get killed.

If I get pushed into spikes or thrown off a ledge 9/10 it was because I was careless and not paying attention to my surroundings.
git gud

SangLong524
03-15-2017, 07:25 PM
Last I checked, God of War was a single player franchise that dabbled (unsuccessfully) with a multiplayer mode just for giggles.
Maybe you played a different God of War Ascension than me.

And last I checked, For Honor aspired to be a competitive multiplayer fighting game (this is what I assume, considering the absence of proper single player content, excluding a half-arsed campaign). But environmental kills, although often unfair, have a portion of skill to them. You need to be aware of your surroundings. You need to mind your positioning and the enemies. Especially if you are fighting big throwers like raider (lol) or lawbringer.

It's hard for me to tell what For Honor aspired to be, because I have never seen a company try to launch a multiplayer/ e-sports game without proper Server Support, proper Matchmaking and a Ranked mode.

For Honor seems like "dear playerbase, here, we made this really cool gameplay/ combat, now do something with it, because we aren't gonna bother providing you with any multiplayer support, proper competitive systems or even a good single player, but we are still gonna charge you full price + full expansion price for future content + try to shove steel microtransactions down your throats"

"just for giggle" is entirely your subjective opinion. Look here, just because something isn't up to your standard, it doesn't mean that universally true except in your limited universal view, which is just you. Ascension does have everything OP seem to be angry about. It has, or had, a multiplayer mode where real players play. Never get your face hammer slapped off the edge? No? LIES. Never get one shot by Polyphemus' big fist or petrified by Medusa's sister (sorry forgot her name), Alecto's tentacles and her inks? LIES. Never entered a beat down with the Spear (the one in Desert of Lost souls)? LIES. Never fall off the Oracle's chamber when the floor fall away? LIES. Never get zapped to oblivion by Reckoning or sliced to bits with Hades' torrent build or ringout by Ares' Hammer or face off a super Poseidon's tank? LIES. if you don't do all that, then I agree. you did played an entire difference GOW Ascension MULTIPLAYER. AI bots weren't as competent as For Honor's bots, though. And u don't get bots to replaced your teammates when RQ, u face off all 4 enemies alone.
Just for your information, AC franchise was once Single Player only. They only started multiplayer since Brotherhood. I didn't participate in AC forum but I suppose your kind of talk was there too.
For Honor still need a lot of working, I admit. First should be the rewarding system. As it is, it's too discouraging to actually sit down and play to get better, both loots and skills. I actually prefer AC rewarding system. ALL you get is just cosmetics, you do need to have some skills for a successful snooping.
Some people seem to be angry about steel transaction and it seem to be forced to buy them somehow. well, you really aren't force to. Steel pack costs real money. I don't feel righteous indignant when someone can afford something I don't. Sure, at times I'm a bit envious. Assuming it's all legit, of course. Ubi just dangle that piece of benefits like a tasty meat so close to your mouth while you're licking your lips. They didn't "shove it down your throat", no mate, it's ILLEGAL.

Bcarruth
03-15-2017, 08:01 PM
Really? Because there are no one shot grab kills in Tekken, FN, MK, or any of the other awesome fighting games out there.

Plenty of versions of Tekken have had KING with 110-150% throw Combos, especially if you include the cancels.
Ring-outs have been part of the SOUL series from the beginning, and SC is clearly one of For Honor's strongest influences (directional parries, cancel-G-cancels, 8-way move, even some of the move lists and animations).
Stage Breaks are in countless series, heavily featured in DOA. Many incarnations of the series have included counter-to-break OHK's.

You'll also notice a few things about the level design near OHK drops:
- They rarely have a "safe side" and "unsafe side": most OHK spots present equal risk to participants.
- They often correspond to pickups, strategically important points, routes to bypass arenas, etc.

There seems to be a pretty clear, and well-considered, risk-reward structure associated with places you can get OHK'd.

Bcarruth
03-15-2017, 08:05 PM
My apologies to anyone who has already heard me express this opinion multiple times:

Environmental kills aren't a noob way to get kills, they're a noob way to get killed.

If I get pushed into spikes or thrown off a ledge 9/10 it was because I was careless and not paying attention to my surroundings.
git gud

This. It's the Fool's Mate of FH: every experienced player knows how to do it, every experienced player knows how to avoid it, and trying for it against an experienced player is dangerous.
I got chain-dunked by a Lawbringer yesterday. I kept nudging him to a cliff, he kept flinging me right over it - because I was stupid. Because I don't know LB's moveset well. Because I was pushing for an easy kill and punish a scrub who wasn't a scrub at all and made me pay for my arrogance.

Hyugas.
03-15-2017, 08:39 PM
Random circumstances killing your character should never happen in a skill based game.

So, I must say that For Honor isn't just about skill. Why don't you try to be smarter than you opponent? Learn every situation where you can receive a uncounterable guard-break, pay attention at your position and learn how to CGB.

I have a feeling that everyone crying about enviromental kills are just brainless spammers... A duel is a game of patience, remember that!

LinkZeppeloyd
03-15-2017, 08:47 PM
All I have to say about environmental kills:

Counter guard break is life. Now having said that, you shouldn't get a guaranteed CGB off of a parry. And ublockable pushes/charges need to have a bloody cooldown.

DizzleFresh13
03-15-2017, 09:13 PM
Don't see how ppl can complain about this. Once you know the maps and become more situationally aware of your surroundings, it doesn't happen as often. And at that point, when it does happen, you begin to blame yourself.

buhahh125
03-15-2017, 09:13 PM
So, I must say that For Honor isn't just about skill. Why don't you try to be smarter than you opponent? Learn every situation where you can receive a uncounterable guard-break, pay attention at your position and learn how to CGB.

I have a feeling that everyone crying about enviromental kills are just brainless spammers... A duel is a game of patience, remember that!

PRECISELY! :cool: Don't want to be shoved off a ledge? Don't fight there. Every time I have been shoved I do not get upset because 9 out of 10 times it was my own fault.

secrecy274
03-15-2017, 09:26 PM
PRECISELY! :cool: Don't want to be shoved off a ledge? Don't fight there. Every time I have been shoved I do not get upset because 9 out of 10 times it was my own fault.

Well, this.

That other 10% was at the hands of a Warlord.

Alustar.
03-15-2017, 10:04 PM
Really? Because there are no one shot grab kills in Tekken, FN, MK, or any of the other awesome fighting games out there.
LOL! Ring outs dude! ! ! Lmao!
Seriously, why are people complaining about simple mechanics? Ledge bad.
Do I need to quote Batman begins? "Mind your surroundings!"
Noobs.

buhahh125
03-17-2017, 08:16 PM
Well, this.

That other 10% was at the hands of a Warlord.

LoL that was a good one and very true. ^_^