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View Full Version : How is block speed not hotfixed already?



Apaolo_
03-14-2017, 02:52 PM
I mean it's a glaring issue that a lot of characters have to face. How can a slow blocker go against assassin classes? For example the Raider and Lawbringer have the slowest block speeds.

Every class should be able to block at the same speed.

Dark.Knights
03-14-2017, 05:55 PM
Agree, hope they fix it. 20~22 frame is impossible to block faster class light attack.

BobThePirate764
03-14-2017, 05:57 PM
If you're going to complain about tech specifics, post links to the relevant data so people have some sign this isn't just a butthurt bandwagon.

In b4 you wont and it is.

ParadigmFringe
03-14-2017, 06:05 PM
I mean it's a glaring issue that a lot of characters have to face. How can a slow blocker go against assassin classes? For example the Raider and Lawbringer have the slowest block speeds.

Every class should be able to block at the same speed. i main the lawbringer and the conqueror and i have no more trouble with assassins than i do with any other class. stop being so agressive against faster characters. be patient. back and side-step a lot. LEARN TO FEINT... fast characters know they can press their advantage when you whiff a heavy, so feint from outside their effective range and try to bait them into their lunging attacks.

Dark.Knights
03-14-2017, 06:30 PM
i main the lawbringer and the conqueror and i have no more trouble with assassins than i do with any other class. stop being so agressive against faster characters. be patient. back and side-step a lot. LEARN TO FEINT... fast characters know they can press their advantage when you whiff a heavy, so feint from outside their effective range and try to bait them into their lunging attacks. Some of them just don't care your feint, they just spam light attack.

Turric4n666
03-14-2017, 06:31 PM
Block on slow classes is max 12frames on60fps while fast classes have min 6 frames. But lawbringer can also switch occasionally on 8frames. Has to do with animation and so far no one did an averag

Also so far it was not verified that these are the actual block speeds. The measured values derive from Animations only. Someone mentioned that block speeds are the same for all classes and this is just an animation issue.
This is not proven and not confirmed by.devs and for me block speeds feel the same across all characters.

Porch-Skunk
03-14-2017, 07:29 PM
Yeah i tested this with a friend on his valkyrie with my lawbringer. Knowing when his attacks and where they were going to land, block speed is not fast enough to block his attacks if he goes right then left, like not at all. If the first one hits while im trying to block that way, the second attack always hit even though I would start to shift that direction, not virtually possible.

ParadigmFringe
03-14-2017, 07:44 PM
Some of them just don't care your feint, they just spam light attack. if they're "spamming light attacks" you need to parry, not block. as LB, all i have to do is my shove attack to GB them through their light spam. as Conqueror, i backstep and start my infinite light chain and link into a heavy if they advance. as the raider, i light>light> nblockablFEINT>dash in>GB (or pommel strike)

there are answers for everything, even as the slowest classes. if you're on xb1 and feel like doing some sparring, i'm game any time. GT: Paradigmfringe
edit: well... any time after 4pm PST.

The_B0G_
03-14-2017, 08:00 PM
I'm not sure what skill level players you're playing against, but I main a LB and some PKs spam their lights so fast and randomly you can't possibly switch zones to block before they hit, their attacks are too fast for the blocks to keep up, I usually have to roll backwards just to break the onslaught. Sure I can wreck some PKs, but ones who are good at light spamming are near impossible to beat, parrying doesn't help when you can't even switch to the right zone before the attack hits.

ParadigmFringe
03-14-2017, 08:40 PM
I'm not sure what skill level players you're playing against, but I main a LB and some PKs spam their lights so fast and randomly you can't possibly switch zones to block before they hit, their attacks are too fast for the blocks to keep up, I usually have to roll backwards just to break the onslaught. Sure I can wreck some PKs, but ones who are good at light spamming are near impossible to beat, parrying doesn't help when you can't even switch to the right zone before the attack hits. "as LB all i have to do is my shove attack to GB them through their light spam"
i said that up above. the shove has hyper armor. it'll take the hit and give you priority, then you get a free GB. if they're "spamming light attacks" (lol, scrub complaint) you wait for the second hit, and block when they reset their combo. as for that "i don't know what skill level players" nonsense you're spouting, i promise you, they're ALL better than you are, because they TRY spamming lights on me, and when i don't let them, they adapt, which is the mark of a good player. you just need to gitgud, scrub.

cragar212
03-14-2017, 08:45 PM
Not entirety sure OP knows what a hotfix is...

All the mechanics were designed intentionally the way they are.

Some balance issues will be tweaked in the future but that's about it.

De4d_0n_Sight
03-14-2017, 09:15 PM
If you're going to complain about tech specifics, post links to the relevant data so people have some sign this isn't just a butthurt bandwagon.

In b4 you wont and it is.


https://youtu.be/Gm5L19vZiEg

Vagor_D
03-14-2017, 09:40 PM
"as LB all i have to do is my shove attack to GB them through their light spam"
i said that up above. the shove has hyper armor. it'll take the hit and give you priority, then you get a free GB. if they're "spamming light attacks" (lol, scrub complaint) you wait for the second hit, and block when they reset their combo. as for that "i don't know what skill level players" nonsense you're spouting, i promise you, they're ALL better than you are, because they TRY spamming lights on me, and when i don't let them, they adapt, which is the mark of a good player. you just need to gitgud, scrub.

Maybe it would help if Ubi fixed the damn connections. It doesn't do any good when your opponents are hitting you before the prompt actually appears and popping back to life mid-execution. There are major latency issues for many players that still need to be addressed.

Turric4n666
03-14-2017, 09:49 PM
After some testing i can say that block speed isnīt the problem.

Video follows.

ParadigmFringe
03-14-2017, 10:09 PM
After some testing i can say that block speed isnīt the problem.

Video follows. i don't know if you meant you were going to post it shortly of if it was supposed to be linked in your message, BUT I WANT IT! i'm all about learning new things and seeing new takes on existing issues/co0ncerns.

Valtaya
03-14-2017, 10:27 PM
if you want all classes to have same blocking speed, then you want all clases to have equal damage output and ranges and same stagger possibilities

all you raiders and lawbringers and shugokis and and and are complaining all the time about peacekeepers and other assassins but I tell you a few things
- the range of assassin weapons is NOT existant
- even with full "attack" gear stat the damage done is laughable (like, assassin heavy strike makes less damage then raider light attack)... and spamming lights is like a mosquito stinging an elephant, it takes virtualy forever... plenty of time to hit the assassin just once
- speaking about... assassin hp are also laughable, two heavy hits and it is over and with the range of all weapons but assassins, easy game
- oh and before I forget it, staggering. you hit the assassin once and you have free game. any assassin can tell you this, our worst nightmare is being hit, even when we are blocked the weapon arm is pushed to the side and we lose control for like 1 second, plenty of time to take advantage of the situation. if some class who is not an assassin gets hit, by an assassin, nothing happens (except nobushi, but that one have realy large, long, weapon).

assassins shine in skirmish and dominion and are a realy unreliable dueling class, if an assassin beats you, then you are just not good enough

I am realy sick of this crappy talks about "make the block change speed of all weapons equal", do it, and you can remove 11 classes from the game

Turric4n666
03-14-2017, 10:31 PM
i don't know if you meant you were going to post it shortly of if it was supposed to be linked in your message, BUT I WANT IT! i'm all about learning new things and seeing new takes on existing issues/co0ncerns.


https://youtu.be/y4SScZlaosY

Youtube took ages coverting this thing... ugh.

Whats your view of it?

What i tried is block as late as possible, going way down the 10frame mark at times and trying to block the second hit, when the first one hits. It is possible versus bots. Maybe lag is involved when you can not do it in pvp.. i couldnīt try that yet.

btw: bug(?) at 1:00
and lawbringer has as fast of a block as any other class seen at 1:40

So. the next dude saying that blockspeeds are an issue, better bring some evidence.

Felis_Menari
03-14-2017, 11:43 PM
https://youtu.be/y4SScZlaosY

Youtube took ages coverting this thing... ugh.

Anyway, whats your view of it?

Perhaps those blocking shenanigans with the Valkyrie are the reason why blocks that seem solid (and in time) fail to do their job. And maybe this explains the same deal with failed parries that seemed to have the right timing? Hmm...

Karma_Ghost
03-14-2017, 11:46 PM
If you're going to complain about tech specifics, post links to the relevant data so people have some sign this isn't just a butthurt bandwagon.

In b4 you wont and it is.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/5w8rwy/frame_data_mega_thread/

IB4 you're wrong and you'll come up with some stupid excuse to defend your assertion.

Turric4n666
03-15-2017, 12:17 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/5w8rwy/frame_data_mega_thread/

IB4 you're wrong and you'll come up with some stupid excuse to defend your assertion.

Well.. itīs funny that someone talks in length about how frames are not standarized.. then proceeds to give frames without context :)

this one however is the real problem, which makes people think it is slower. It is just unforgivable to mistakes by the user AND feints.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/5vzo5l/block_speed_guard_switch_time_confusion_and_why/


https://youtu.be/x1ydm7vais4

This video shows ranges from 1 to 8 frame switches.
at the end of the video you find a "double switch" resulting in a delay of 20 frames for the guard change, as the top position is done first (queued up).


all is recorded in 60fps

GiganticKORAK
03-15-2017, 12:25 AM
Blocking speed works like this

Every class has the same INITIAL block speed. Meaning, the first guard switch.
However, class like Nobushi, Shugoki, Lawbringer, Raiders have the slowest guard direction switch after the first switch.

So, if you just stand there with block direction on the right. You can switch guard to left the same speed as everyone else.
However, if you were to switch to left then back to right, the class I listed above will be slower than other character.

Meaning, you would most likely have trouble blocking multiple attacks from fast attckers like PK, Valk.

The best way to play around this is to focus on blocking one hit, then back away. If a PK tries to light spam, block the first hit and back away or just guess the next direction.
Do not try to block on reaction, your character simply won't allow you to block the second attack from PK that is 12 frames while your guard switch takes 8 frames. That leaves you with 4 frames to react. Good luck on that, Superman.

Hopefully this information helps all the Raider, Shugoki, Lawbringer, Nobushi out there.

Felis_Menari
03-15-2017, 12:30 AM
Blocking speed works like this

Every class has the same INITIAL block speed. Meaning, the first guard switch.
However, class like Nobushi, Shugoki, Lawbringer, Raiders have the slowest guard direction switch after the first switch.

So, if you just stand there with block direction on the right. You can switch guard to left the same speed as everyone else.
However, if you were to switch to left then back to right, the class I listed above will be slower than other character.

Meaning, you would most likely have trouble blocking multiple attacks from fast attckers like PK, Valk.

The best way to play around this is to focus on blocking one hit, then back away. If a PK tries to light spam, block the first hit and back away or just guess the next direction.
Do not try to block on reaction, your character simply won't allow you to block the second attack from PK that is 12 frames while your guard switch takes 8 frames.

Hopefully this information helps all the Raider, Shugoki, Lawbringer, Nobushi out there.

Very good to know. I guess this is what I've been feeling in some fights with quick hitters.

Turric4n666
03-15-2017, 12:38 AM
Blocking speed works like this

Every class has the same INITIAL block speed. Meaning, the first guard switch.
However, class like Nobushi, Shugoki, Lawbringer, Raiders have the slowest guard direction switch after the first switch.

So, if you just stand there with block direction on the right. You can switch guard to left the same speed as everyone else.
However, if you were to switch to left then back to right, the class I listed above will be slower than other character.

Meaning, you would most likely have trouble blocking multiple attacks from fast attckers like PK, Valk.

The best way to play around this is to focus on blocking one hit, then back away. If a PK tries to light spam, block the first hit and back away or just guess the next direction.
Do not try to block on reaction, your character simply won't allow you to block the second attack from PK that is 12 frames while your guard switch takes 8 frames. That leaves you with 4 frames to react. Good luck on that, Superman.

Hopefully this information helps all the Raider, Shugoki, Lawbringer, Nobushi out there.

This is correct, with one minor detail (i guess your values are in 30fps). Peacekeeper has 30frame attacks(or 15 frames in 30fps) (0.5 second).
So with a blockspeed change of 0.33 seconds and average reaction time of 0.2 seconds, you are gonna have a bad time indeed... and a sword in your side.

* Her zone attack seems to run at 0.3 seconds, but comes from the same direction, so you can default your stance to right(was it?).

GiganticKORAK
03-15-2017, 12:47 AM
This is correct, with one minor detail (i guess your values are in 30fps). Peacekeeper has 30frame attacks(or 15 frames in 30fps) (0.5 second).
So with a blockspeed change of 0.33 seconds and average reaction time of 0.2 seconds, you are gonna have a bad time indeed... and a sword in your side.

* Her zone attack seems to run at 0.3 seconds, but comes from the same direction, so you can default your stance to right(was it?).

I play on console, so yes. I use the 30 fps system.
PK's ZA goes at 9 frames, so if she comes at you with a left heavy feint which made you switch to left guard, then goes to ZA, you better predict that ZA or else you will eat damage because it is simply humanly impossible to react in 1 frame.

Tough world out there, friends!

sorcot
03-15-2017, 01:06 AM
Man I eat them alive even on shogo those classes just learn to parry and you eat them up

Special4ces Dom
03-15-2017, 02:14 AM
Ruins the whole game for me when Peacekeeper and Valkyrie spam attacks on me when I use a slow blocking class.

Dark.Knights
03-15-2017, 11:45 AM
if they're "spamming light attacks" you need to parry, not block. as LB, all i have to do is my shove attack to GB them through their light spam. as Conqueror, i backstep and start my infinite light chain and link into a heavy if they advance. as the raider, i light>light> nblockablFEINT>dash in>GB (or pommel strike)

there are answers for everything, even as the slowest classes. if you're on xb1 and feel like doing some sparring, i'm game any time. GT: Paradigmfringe
edit: well... any time after 4pm PST. LB guard stance speed is slow, how can you parry the faster hero light attack? I see most of them not going to do chain attack because you can read them, they just do one hit with random direction. And the shove>GB combo not works most of the time, they already know to counter it, and the Shove>Long Arm, they can dodge away.

Dark.Knights
03-15-2017, 12:04 PM
If you're going to complain about tech specifics, post links to the relevant data so people have some sign this isn't just a butthurt bandwagon.

In b4 you wont and it is.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNTWO7W1VrI

Turric4n666
03-15-2017, 12:20 PM
What do you want to tell us?

Xaviloga
03-15-2017, 12:21 PM
Even using the faster switch guard class the 80% of people cant block the light attacks chains. I know that everyone in this forum can, no problem, easly, block and parry all attacks of the game, But most ppl simply cant, no matter the class they are playing, against some clases chain light attacks only can guess from where the next will come.
Of course git gud, and its true. But keep saying that until noone plays the game but a very small % pro/hardcore players. Yep, matchmaking on W/L ratio will help, but dunno...

The-Foxhounded
03-15-2017, 12:54 PM
"as LB all i have to do is my shove attack to GB them through their light spam"
i said that up above. the shove has hyper armor. it'll take the hit and give you priority, then you get a free GB. if they're "spamming light attacks" (lol, scrub complaint) you wait for the second hit, and block when they reset their combo. as for that "i don't know what skill level players" nonsense you're spouting, i promise you, they're ALL better than you are, because they TRY spamming lights on me, and when i don't let them, they adapt, which is the mark of a good player. you just need to gitgud, scrub.

You were very helpful and nice up until you called OP a scrub. Now I just think you're an *******.

Volccis
03-15-2017, 01:17 PM
Even using the faster switch guard class the 80% of people cant block the light attacks chains. I know that everyone in this forum can, no problem, easly, block and parry all attacks of the game, But most ppl simply cant, no matter the class they are playing, against some clases chain light attacks only can guess from where the next will come.
Of course git gud, and its true. But keep saying that until noone plays the game but a very small % pro/hardcore players. Yep, matchmaking on W/L ratio will help, but dunno...

80% people cant block the light chain? Where do you get that number? Perhaps thats how its on console and with 30fps. However when playing on PC I cannot ever complete the 3x light chain without getting blocked. Usually every opponent can block the second light attack if its not PK or Valkyrie.

From the release day 1, when I was total noob I realized that all those chain attack combos are completely useless in duels. Peacekeeper can get guaranteed 2 light attacks and third light attack will get blocked usually or even parried. Valkyrie can probably get also 2 lights attacks in and third will get blocked. Berserker can do the infinite combo if the enemy is trying to parry his attacks, otherwise Berserker will get blocked after second attack for sure. There is a reason why I dont see anyone using those chain combos, because they do not work against average players. At least thats how its on PC.