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View Full Version : Draining stamina useless against assassins



B3NNS
03-11-2017, 07:40 PM
Whats the point in draining an assassins stamina if they can just continuously dash backwards when they have no stamina. By the time i get to them they've recovered.

Turric4n666
03-11-2017, 07:40 PM
and on the other hand.. shugoki is dead when he is one time out of stamina versus conq lol

lNogardl
03-11-2017, 08:14 PM
I fought against a PK who i bet her dash button must be spent from all the usage, its ****ing ridiculous how safe dashing is. "Hey i'm out of stamina, but i still got enough "stamina" to dash away into neverland"

Balancing at its finest.

Felis_Menari
03-11-2017, 08:21 PM
Making exhaustion penalties actually mean something is a needed change. Hop to it, devs (when you can >.> )!

Delectable_Sin
03-11-2017, 08:36 PM
Are you kidding me? Assassins are useless without stamina. Assassins also have the lowest win rate of all classes at the 80% + win rate matchmaking.

You can't dash without stamina, you can only dodge...

pure_energist
03-11-2017, 08:49 PM
I use to think the same until I learned how to counter it. Sprint or Dash Forward until you are close enough to GB.. GB will track a dash when close enough.. Guaranteed GB if they try to dash.. if they don't dash when close enough to grab.then they may tech it.. you have to react accordingly but first you just have to close the gap; this is best achieved by watching their stamina closely.. if it looks like it close to being depleted get ready to dash forward and get an easy GB because 9/10 times an assassin will try to create distance with a back dash as soon as out of stamina.. Making a Stamina cost to dashing would open up another can of worms... Dashing when out of stamina is what allows us to sidestep shoulder bashes and shoves....If we were being spammed then we would never recover stamina until we got knocked down and hit.. Everyone whining about stamina debt being more punishable should just stop... NO WHERE DOES THE GAME ever say running out of stamina was supposed to give the opponent free attacks.. It does what its supposed to do and create a lull in action so that a person cannot just attack non stop.
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Felis_Menari
03-11-2017, 08:53 PM
Are you kidding me? Assassins are useless without stamina. Assassins also have the lowest win rate of all classes at the 80% + win rate matchmaking.

You can't dash without stamina, you can only dodge...

It's almost impossible to punish an exhausted assassin if all they do is back pedal until they get their stamina back, at least if you aren't playing as a speedy assassin yourself. This is most definitely a problem.

Delectable_Sin
03-11-2017, 08:59 PM
It's almost impossible to punish an exhausted assassin if all they do is back pedal until they get their stamina back, at least if you aren't playing as a speedy assassin yourself. This is most definitely a problem.

BS, you can't dash backwards when you're exhausted, and you can dodge GB, so it's INSANELY easy to drop an assassin when they're out of stamina and finish them off before they even have the chance to get their stamina back. An assassin that lets their stamina run out is a noob.

pure_energist
03-11-2017, 09:04 PM
SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME HOW YOU PUNISH ANYONE ELSE WITH EXHAUSTED STAMINA?!!! There is no Guaranteed punishment!! Block Lights, parry Heavies, Tech GBs, dodge/parry unblockables, dodge sweeps, dodge bashes and Regain Stamina... Its just the same the only difference is Now I can't attack reliably...So tell me how I'm being punished with no stamina when your attacks where just as block able as when I have full stamina. Basically if I stand in front of you and block your attacks chances are you will be out of stamina when I get mine back..... and just fyi because everyone seems to think the moment a class tactics is defended that person must only main that class I have not leveled any assassins in the game.. I've mained Raider and Valk.

Felis_Menari
03-11-2017, 09:26 PM
BS, you can't dash backwards when you're exhausted, and you can dodge GB, so it's INSANELY easy to drop an assassin when they're out of stamina and finish them off before they even have the chance to get their stamina back. An assassin that lets their stamina run out is a noob.

Let me put this in perspective for you; against assassins, it is nigh impossible to catch an evasive one as a LB because their dodge spamming damn near covers as much ground as my sprint. Impaling charge is easy to block and dodge, and dodging can get assassins out of free run GB attempts due to GB not tracking out of lock. Having to chase an exhausted assassin makes me predictable (not much choice there), therefore I am easy to defend against. If full dodge speed/distance was not available while exhausted, then perhaps there would be some viable alternatives.

pure_energist
03-11-2017, 09:41 PM
Let me put this in perspective for you; against assassins, it is nigh impossible to catch an evasive one as a LB because their dodge spamming damn near covers as much ground as my sprint. Impaling charge is easy to block and dodge, and dodging can get assassins out of free run GB attempts due to GB not tracking out of lock. Having to chase an exhausted assassin makes me predictable (not much choice there), therefore I am easy to defend against. If full dodge speed/distance was not available while exhausted, then perhaps there would be some viable alternatives.

As a LB do you have an attack game only viable when exhausting someone out of stamina? Is this supposed to be the only LB strengths?? If that is the case then I suppose I can emphasize with your frustrations; HOWEVER, I don't believe UBI created classes specifically only viable when their opponent is exhausted. Having moves that damages stamina is effective in that it can keep their attack volume lowered. Havn't played LB I can only leave it to the community to say he's only strong when exhausting opponents. So unless there is characters in this game that can only do reliably well when facing exhausted opponents then I still stick to my original argument of WHAT CAN YOU DO DIFFERENTLY AGAINST AN EXHAUSTED OPPONENT THAT THEY COULD"T GUARD AGAINST.

Felis_Menari
03-11-2017, 10:34 PM
As a LB do you have an attack game only viable when exhausting someone out of stamina? Is this supposed to be the only LB strengths?? If that is the case then I suppose I can emphasize with your frustrations; HOWEVER, I don't believe UBI created classes specifically only viable when their opponent is exhausted. Having moves that damages stamina is effective in that it can keep their attack volume lowered. Havn't played LB I can only leave it to the community to say he's only strong when exhausting opponents. So unless there is characters in this game that can only do reliably well when facing exhausted opponents then I still stick to my original argument of WHAT CAN YOU DO DIFFERENTLY AGAINST AN EXHAUSTED OPPONENT THAT THEY COULD"T GUARD AGAINST.

At the highest level of play, Lawbringer is at or near the bottom of the list in terms of viability (we're talking about 1v1, here). He can be consistently avoided and defended against, since he has no quick, guaranteed damage output like a Warden's side light combo, Orochi double light top, or Warlord headbutt and light combo. You're almost never going to see a LB actually damage someone's stamina unless he manages to get a parry. But, that's not exactly easy, with what some refer to as the "turtle meta".

pure_energist
03-11-2017, 11:05 PM
At the highest level of play, Lawbringer is at or near the bottom of the list in terms of viability (we're talking about 1v1, here). He can be consistently avoided and defended against, since he has no quick, guaranteed damage output like a Warden's side light combo, Orochi double light top, or Warlord headbutt and light combo. You're almost never going to see a LB actually damage someone's stamina unless he manages to get a parry. But, that's not exactly easy, with what some refer to as the "turtle meta".

Still waiting to hear from any players that believe exhaustion should = free punishment. When I hear punish its mean't to mean you get a free attack for an opponents mistake. Going into stamina exhaustion isn't a mistake but a mechanic to reduce spamming attacks.. which is exactly what it does. Either you stand and guard or attempt to dodge away.. Either way the exhausted opponent is not attacking... So All the Whine about assassins dodging away is meaningless when they are doing exactly what exhaustion is meant to achieve. NOT ATTACKING! Its as if players got it in their head the game said you were suppose to be able to punish an exhausted opponent and they are upset they can't. The game never said this, the only thing it does tell you is if you do get a GB on exhausted opponents its an auto knock down.. BUT it never said that opponent couldn't tech that GB attempt.

Felis_Menari
03-11-2017, 11:27 PM
Still waiting to hear from any players that believe exhaustion should = free punishment. When I hear punish its mean't to mean you get a free attack for an opponents mistake. Going into stamina exhaustion isn't a mistake but a mechanic to reduce spamming attacks.. which is exactly what it does. Either you stand and guard or attempt to dodge away.. Either way the exhausted opponent is not attacking... So All the Whine about assassins dodging away is meaningless when they are doing exactly what exhaustion is meant to achieve. NOT ATTACKING! Its as if players got it in their head the game said you were suppose to be able to punish an exhausted opponent and they are upset they can't. The game never said this, the only thing it does tell you is if you do get a GB on exhausted opponents its an auto knock down.. BUT it never said that opponent couldn't tech that GB attempt.

I am not a fan of guaranteed punishment just for being exhausted. I just don't think it's good gameplay for fast/nimble characters to be able to so easily avoid attempts to get close to just *try* to punish them. That's the thing; in some instances it doesn't matter what you do; you won't be able get near them unless they let you, making it impossible to do anything while they are exhausted, which damn near renders the entire stamina bar pointless in those situations.

pure_energist
03-11-2017, 11:43 PM
I am not a fan of guaranteed punishment just for being exhausted. I just don't think it's good gameplay for fast/nimble characters to be able to so easily avoid attempts to get close to just *try* to punish them. That's the thing; in some instances it doesn't matter what you do; you won't be able get near them unless they let you, making it impossible to do anything while they are exhausted, which damn near renders the entire stamina bar pointless in those situations.

I don't think it was EVER intended or explained as something to punish anyone with.. By punishment you mean they won't be able to attack you as you attempt to open them up..So sure, they get away from having to stand and guard attacks.. but a skilled player would still be able to stand and guard well anyway, especially when they aren't attempting to counter attack. I argue there is no true punishment for exhaustion only time period when the opponent will not attempt attacks. I don't see anything wrong with this gameplay since the nimble characters do have to switch guard more effectively then other characters. So their option of back out when not able to attack is ok since their health pool is small.. If they had to stand and guard and miss a guard they are highly punished vs a conq. that stands and guards when exhausted and misses one attack. They are still guarding the way they would with full stamina wich is often with dodges. The stamina bar is only pointless with the mindset exhaustion is supposed to be punished. The Only "Punishment" exhaustion is suppose to have is what its doing.. slowing attacks. The only free attack it provides is with a GB and knockdown.. So yeah. You might lose out on making that GB attempt if they slip away.. but see my first post and You'll know GB can track a dodge and is not techable so its a free GB if you are close enough to grab those making frantic dodges.

Billocles
03-11-2017, 11:56 PM
>mfw the developers agree that some of the assassins are performing too well where they shouldn't and the LB is "low tier"

I guess no one watches the dev videos