PDA

View Full Version : I feel like a traitor for sayimg this but



Slammin_
02-15-2004, 10:33 PM
When I first joined JG27 and was on comms talking to Aristo and some of the other squad and made a comment like "but the 109's don't turn so well" and Aristo said "it's because you are going toio fast!"

Since the original IL-2, we've all run into 109 drivers that can make that bird do things that really piss us off. Yup, it can go up and down and straight real fast. And this is where the real 109 pilot comes in.

Not only can that plane go up/down/straight really good, it can also do the waltz. With proper speed, flap, prop pitch and throttle, a 109 can pretty much friggin break dance.

Now, I haven't been in JG27 long enough to learn all the stuff that Aristo, Crash and some of our other 109 diehards can do, but I will say this:

Master your ride!

I know this for a fact is the biggest advantage!

Sorry JG27 - Just trying to keep things even!

Slammin_
02-15-2004, 10:33 PM
When I first joined JG27 and was on comms talking to Aristo and some of the other squad and made a comment like "but the 109's don't turn so well" and Aristo said "it's because you are going toio fast!"

Since the original IL-2, we've all run into 109 drivers that can make that bird do things that really piss us off. Yup, it can go up and down and straight real fast. And this is where the real 109 pilot comes in.

Not only can that plane go up/down/straight really good, it can also do the waltz. With proper speed, flap, prop pitch and throttle, a 109 can pretty much friggin break dance.

Now, I haven't been in JG27 long enough to learn all the stuff that Aristo, Crash and some of our other 109 diehards can do, but I will say this:

Master your ride!

I know this for a fact is the biggest advantage!

Sorry JG27 - Just trying to keep things even!

MosDef_99th
02-15-2004, 10:55 PM
yeah, a few of us have encountered Aristo and the 27's mastery of those damn G-6's...its the prop pitch I can't seem to figure out

cd.jakevas
02-15-2004, 11:08 PM
i can only fly 109s, im ok with the mustang. But i feel most comfortable in a 109, whether it be high speed bnz attacks, or down low in a turn fight.

http://members.cox.net/jakevas/sig7.jpg

MosDef_99th
02-15-2004, 11:24 PM
man i think if you can fly 109's well u can fly basically anything, I think.

Korolov
02-15-2004, 11:28 PM
Not really. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

MosDef_99th
02-15-2004, 11:30 PM
so whats harder then?

resev
02-15-2004, 11:32 PM
I don't see why you should feel like a traitor for saying this.
Its the most basic thing a guy can say about a craft, to master it that is.

Yes a 109 can do the waltz, and do it good, alltough with time, i learned how to counter it, by not engaging directly, but instead, keeping my distance, energy and favorable attacking position.
It serves me no purpose engaging on the dance agains't the 109, when both of us will eventualy loose too much energy to finish what we started.
Nevertheless, not many ppl know how to dance properly with th 109, alltough each time i engage one, i assume the pilot knows what he's doing, and allways procede with that tought in mind.
More often than not, the 109 starts scisorring me, wich needless to say, it's a big mistake if the atacker is allready expecting something funky from the 109 pilot.

Speed may be the tooth and claw, but energy is the heart and soul.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/resev/images/2-picture2.gif?0.3524929147671928

crazyivan1970
02-15-2004, 11:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slammin_:
When I first joined JG27 and was on comms talking to Aristo and some of the other squad and made a comment like "but the 109's don't turn so well" and Aristo said "it's because you are going toio fast!"

Since the original IL-2, we've all run into 109 drivers that can make that bird do things that really piss us off. Yup, it can go up and down and straight real fast. And this is where the real 109 pilot comes in.

Not only can that plane go up/down/straight really good, it can also do the waltz. With proper speed, flap, prop pitch and throttle, a 109 can pretty much friggin break dance.

Now, I haven't been in JG27 long enough to learn all the stuff that Aristo, Crash and some of our other 109 diehards can do, but I will say this:

Master your ride!

I know this for a fact is the biggest advantage!

Sorry JG27 - Just trying to keep things even!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aristo...pffttt.. who`s that? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif my 3 year old daughter ownzed him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

WUAF_Badsight
02-16-2004, 12:35 AM
well in DF servers it also comes down to quality teammates

any plane can be used against any plane

pretty hard to beat 2 good pilots on 1 tho

Korolov
02-16-2004, 12:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phife-dawg:
so whats harder then?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

P-47 maybe? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Tully__
02-16-2004, 03:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by phife-dawg:
so whats harder then?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It isn't a matter of what's harder, more to do with what suits your natural flying style. I find the P-51 relatively easy, the P-47 impossible, the MiG series fun but not particularly effective, the Fw series challenging but fun when I get it right, and the Bf's really frustrating. In most cases I know what I need to do to get better results out of each one, but given a choice I gravitate back to the aircraft I enjoy flying even if I don't do that well in them.

=================================================

http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/Corsair.jpg (http://www.mudmovers.com/sturmovik_101/FAQ.htm)

IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)


Salut
Tully

Stalker58
02-16-2004, 03:33 AM
Flying Me109 isn't that hard, but shooting anything down with it is another story

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

BaldieJr
02-16-2004, 05:27 AM
I have a soft-spot for the F4. Of all the planes in the game, I think it is the most 'balanced' fighter.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

MandMs
02-16-2004, 05:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
I have a soft-spot for the F4. Of all the planes in the game, I think it is the most 'balanced' fighter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And soon comes the beautiful Spitfire.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Achtung Spitfire will be heard over the comms and for many that will be the last words they will hear.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

F19_Ob
02-16-2004, 06:27 AM
Actually proppitch isnt nescessary at all to make the hard turns in a 109 or other maneuvers well.( it may help )

Some people "acused" me for doing batturns or being able to keep nose up too well, and I havent used any tricks more than try to fly to the edge in fast and low speeds.

The 109 isnt special or more difficult in this respect. I think it is equal to the p39.
P39 a little better in turn in one direction and good spray armament and 109 a bit faster and better in climb and very stable.


Im much more impressed with those skilled LaGG3 aces or mig aces ( havnt flown those much).

-----------------------------------------------------


Finns didnt use proppitch ( always auto setting) and I wont do it either, not online anyway.


My Guess is that those 109flyers in your squad would be equally good without proppitch just bcause they are skilled, or??

F19_Olli72
02-16-2004, 06:32 AM
I dont use proppitch either, mainly cos it takes me 5 seconds to ruin the engine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
But as O.B said auto does the trick just fine for me too. I fool around with it now and then offline though. Just for practice. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

p1ngu666
02-16-2004, 07:28 AM
yeah db toaster http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
btw, try the k4, start engine, wait a 6secs, engage wep, prop to 100 and nail it completely.
massive comic torque http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

willyvic
02-16-2004, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slammin_:

Master your ride!

I know this for a fact is the biggest advantage!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You hit it dead on Slammin. Knowing your bird, it's abilities and liabilities, is the key to success in any flight sim. For those who are relatively new, I always suggest hours of touch and go's around an airfield. If you can master your machine on take off and landing with flaps/no flaps, stall on/stall off, high/low glideslope, and keep her completely under control, you learn and understand your aircraft's dynamics. Guarantee you will become a better virtual pilot.

And another key is speed. Sometimes less is more. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.rcaf-squadron.org/willyvic/images/mig3u.jpg

bodaw
02-16-2004, 12:54 PM
Hi all, I'm a recent convert to Me109s. I used to fly the Lagg3, Yak3 and Ki84s alot. But after a while it gets boring as all you have to do to get a kill is to stay at cornering speed and turn.

It takes alot more work to get a kill in a 109. And when you do get one, it's alot more satisfying. It certainly takes alot more training and patience than the above mentioned aircrafts.

I find the 109 to be most effective when manual and auto prop. pitch are used appropriately when neccessary.And also flaps of course.

But Slammin is right. The more proficient you become with the plane, the more enjoyable it becomes.

Osirisx9
02-16-2004, 01:57 PM
I prefer the pony and thats the bird I fly best. I flew the 109 series for three weeks strait in the past. Some days I would do well in the thing and others I would just plain ole suck. I think its just all about feel between the pilot and the Bird. I just couldn't make a connection with the 109 series whenever I flew them. There were some qualities i liked about the bird, but then there were others I didn't like. I like to fly my bird hard and fast. For me I had to slow the 109 down considerably in order to get the thing to turn and for my flying style thats not a good thing. The real quaility that I liked about the 109 was its supperb vertical agility. However I prefer the pony highspeed agility over the 109 vertical agility. I can always convert speed into altitude in the stang whenever I need to. One thing that I must say is that I have the upmost respect for 109 pilots who can handle their birds.

Osiris_X9

Xnomad
02-16-2004, 02:22 PM
I find the 109 easy to fly! I only have two problems with the 109 which I'd love to see changed. I would like the piss stains removed from the side of the canopy windows and I'd like a 20mm option for the G-10 and G-14 as I suck with the MK 108, although sometimes I do quite well with it but the muzzle flash doesn't make it any easier.

The Fw 190 now that's a biatch. I lose my target in the frames of the windows and deflection shooting is a pain in the a***.

I love the way the Dora handles but I have real trouble killing anything in it, the plane buffets up and down too much and the rounds don't do much damage when they impact. If the view forward was improved somewhat and the hitting power increased then I'd fly the 190 Dora a lot more often, she's a real beaut.

Hopefully the Ta 152 will be better but it will probably be quite hard to find one to fly on the servers that I like to fly on.

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

lindyman
02-16-2004, 02:30 PM
It feels odd to say, but currently the planes I do best with, are the 109s and the Brewster Buffaloes. The weird part is that they're so exceptionally different. What's a good tactic for one, is suicide for the another. Oddly enough, middle ground planes, like most (all?) soviet fighters, feel very difficult. The extremes in energy fighting (190s and P47s) are not my cup of tea at all.

That, however, is off-line. Due to events beyond my control, I've been cut-off from the internet at home for quite some time. I'm back on-line, now, but haven't tried an on-line fight yet. That may well prove to be very different.
_
/Bjorn.

JG53_Gutted
02-16-2004, 04:04 PM
im a bf109 *****. been flying em for years in various games, and until recently it was the ONLY plane i liked.

lately i been flying 190's more, and while i DO like em alot and have alot of fun flying em (gotta love that high speed handling and guns!), i still love the 109 more.

----------------------------------------------
www.jg53.com (http://www.jg53.com)
http://home.sw.rr.com/gutted/gutted_jg53.gif


My IL2 movies:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Legend (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Videos/index-2.html) (39mb)
<LI>SuperBeast (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv) (30.6mb)
[/list]

DONB3397
02-16-2004, 04:31 PM
It has taken a while to master the 109 G's, but since 1.22, it's my a/c of choice. Acceleration, climb, firepower all seem a little better than the VVS rides I've taken.

190As and Ds seem to roll faster, the P-47 dives better, Mustangs feel more stable at landing and takeoff...but the 109 G-2s and G-6s seem to do it all with the current FM. Tight turns are possible, too, if you can bump the nose up to bleed off a little speed at the beginning.

109 Firepower? Set convergence tight, get close and fire everything (MGs and Canon) at the same time...then get out of the way.

Major shortfall? Don't get caught loafing around at low altitude.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/3fe77b7e_1812a/bc/Images/Sig---1.jpg?BCppCMAB2ibqLZQo

Slammin_
02-16-2004, 06:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
I prefer the pony and thats the bird I fly best. I flew the 109 series for three weeks strait in the past. Some days I would do well in the thing and others I would just plain ole suck. I think its just all about feel between the pilot and the Bird. I just couldn't make a connection with the 109 series whenever I flew them. There were some qualities i liked about the bird, but then there were others I didn't like. I like to fly my bird hard and fast. For me I had to slow the 109 down considerably in order to get the thing to turn and for my flying style thats not a good thing. The real quaility that I liked about the 109 was its supperb vertical agility. However I prefer the pony highspeed agility over the 109 vertical agility. I can always convert speed into altitude in the stang whenever I need to. One thing that I must say is that I have the upmost respect for 109 pilots who can handle their birds.

Osiris_X9<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The very spirit of my post. I love reading from an expert, and you are obviously one, who knows what getting intimate with your ride means. S!

Know your ride!

Slam

Tooz_69GIAP
02-16-2004, 09:42 PM
I love flying the 109. Specially the G2 and G6. Before I joined the 69th GIAP I flew mostly 109s and Ishaks (very different aircraft!!).

But I don't really think being good in an aircraft is about flying style, at least not for the guys I regularly fly with.

In the GeeYap I fly almost exclusively russian aircraft, and the wars like VOW and Forgotten Skies, the VVS pilots are rarely flying the same aircraft from one mission to the next. I could fly a LaGG3 in one mission, a Chaika in the next, a Hurri in the next, and so on. And I need to know how to fly each of these aircraft to be successful in the mission.

The gerries, on the other hand, almost never fly anything other than their fave ride, i.e. the 109. And there are also pilots who will fly nothing else but Stukas, and there are those who love to take a Heinkel for a spin.

Point is, where the gerry pilots get to know their ride intimately, and become killing machines in the things, us VVS guys are very adaptable, and can strap on almost any type of aircraft, and change their flying to suit the a/c. I believe this makes the VVS guys better all round pilots. I know I have certainly improved as a pilot since I joined my squad. If I had joined a german squad I am sure I would have vastly improved as a 109 pilot, but would I have improved my understanding of different fighting techniques, and flight tactics, and manoeuvres, etc? To be honest, I doubt it. All I would have learned is how to fly the 109 to the max and back.

But does this mean the VVS are better than the gerries?? Not at all, but I do believe that the VVS pilots have a far better understanding of the principles of flight and combat than a lot of gerry pilots, because they have to be able to adapt their flying to suit the aircraft they are in.

My advice would be to fly every type of aircraft in the game to the extent where you can land and take off in them without worrying too much about crashing, and where you can at least hit a target with the ride you are in. If everyone did that, and took the time to find the best way to fly the a/c, instead of flying it they way you want to fly it, then I reckon you will improve every aspect of your flying.

Tooz

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg
Za Rodinu!

CARBONFREEZE
02-17-2004, 11:49 AM
It wouldn't hurt for JG27 to have some E management lessons http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby

http://www.pbase.com/image/25987401/medium.jpg
P-38 "Little Butch" Shemya, Alaska

Slammin_
02-17-2004, 12:25 PM
You must be talking about vitamins http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

surlybirch
02-17-2004, 12:39 PM
Flying manual pitch in 109s and 190s is great. However, the 109 engines are less forgiving than the FWs.

I idea simple: Keep your engine at the most efficient RPM possible. Going downhill, you will gradually drop your pitch (ie.. 40..30...20...10...00). Zooming uphill you will raise it back up. (ie 00...10....20...30...40... etc)

You will hold E more going uphill, and at the same time not overspeed going downhill. You still can't out-turn a YAK3, (Nothing can) but you've got the chance for a high deflection on the downhill slope.

I can drive an F4 pretty well against pretty much anything, but the real challenge is to fly the Emil series. If you can fly manual pitch in an Emil and dogfight for 15 minutes straight without the engine blowing up, you're a winner.

The FWs aren't that much of a challenge. On most you can set to 100 pitch and leave it for most of the trip.

SURLY

http://surlybirch.tripod.com/mudbar.txt

SURLYbirch

BpGemini
02-17-2004, 01:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CARBONFREEZE:
_Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!_
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


American Aircraft require 100 times that skill, and one thousand times the patience and a pair of iron nuggets!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

JG27_Dacripler
02-17-2004, 02:15 PM
Quoted by: WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ
posted 17-02-04 10:49
It wouldn't hurt for JG27 to have some E management lessons

Russian aircraft require skill to fly.
German aircraft require ten times that skill, and one hundred times the patience!

WUAF_CO_CRBNFRZ on HyperLobby


P-38 "Little Butch" Shemya, Alaska

.....In Ruturn of the "E" Management, JG27 will provide WUAF Turn & Burn lessons! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

WUAF_Badsight
02-17-2004, 04:16 PM
i got your TnB right here baby

JG27_Dacripler
02-17-2004, 04:20 PM
109's ?? ...waaaayy too cool http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BM357_Raven
02-17-2004, 05:20 PM
I'm pretty much an echo in here, but the best 109 pilots I come across impress me to no end...

_____________________________
Need P-38 pilots for ground
attack Role in our Figther Group. Please Enlist!
_____________________________


http://www.bm357.com/357_chase.gif (http://bm357.com)
Blazing Magnums 357th VFG
bm357.com (http://www.bm357.com/NEW_BM357/flash_intro.html) | Roster (http://bm357.com/NEW_BM357/bm357_rosters.asp) | Flash Cartoon (http://bm357.com/NEW_BM357/raven_in_plane9p.html) | BroDawg (http://www.bm357.com/NEW_BM357/flash-intro/tinman3.html) | QuickTime Videos (http://www.bm357.com/movies.htm)
Blazing_Magnums Server (http://bm357.com/NEW_BM357/server.htm)