PDA

View Full Version : Fixing the defensive meta...some ideas.



Braegulfer
03-06-2017, 05:28 AM
Stamina bleed is the all the top dudes do, and do it well and every class has some issues but the big issue appears to be that it's now a game of "wait for your opponent to make a mistake," rather than doing anything impressive or offensive yourself.

Just curious what you guys think of the following to make the game more dynamic, a little more fluid, and a lot more fun.

1st: speed up the big guys block stance switch
2nd: increase all chars stamina pool by 25%
3rd: increase attack speed across the board, 10-15%
4th: 25-50% reduction in parry window
5th: 25-50% reduction in cgb window

I've been thinking about this nonstop for about a week now, and aware of the over-reliance on defense and stamina drain/defense/parry punish gameplay style, that to me, just isn't as much fun as an even split between offensive and defensive playstyles and tactics.

Thoughts?

Simi_Xiamara_
03-06-2017, 05:47 AM
Stamina bleed is the all the top dudes do, and do it well and every class has some issues but the big issue appears to be that it's now a game of "wait for your opponent to make a mistake," rather than doing anything impressive or offensive yourself.

Just curious what you guys think of the following to make the game more dynamic, a little more fluid, and a lot more fun.

1st: speed up the big guys block stance switch
2nd: increase all chars stamina pool by 25%
3rd: increase attack speed across the board, 10-15%
4th: 25-50% reduction in parry window
5th: 25-50% reduction in cgb window

I've been thinking about this nonstop for about a week now, and aware of the over-reliance on defense and stamina drain/defense/parry punish gameplay style, that to me, just isn't as much fun as an even split between offensive and defensive playstyles and tactics.

Thoughts?

Reduction to cgb window and maybe parry window are the only viable options you put up oh and stamina

10-15% increase attack speed? You do realize this is making this game appeal to hard core gamers only right?

Speed up big guys only? This is a nerf to hybrid and assasin

w/e the fix is has to benefit all classes and not make the game harder for the lesser skilled players...shortening cgb and parry window might do that to tho so ya.... maybe add more chip damage on blocks? Also remoting the whole parry+gb combo might kill turtling all together.but I kinda like the parry + gb combo QQ

BL4CK_W4LL_
03-06-2017, 05:52 AM
Increase chip damage on block. Have dodge use stamina.

Simi_Xiamara_
03-06-2017, 06:09 AM
Increase chip damage on block. Have dodge use stamina.
You know I'm actually getting annoyed with the "have dodge use stamina" suggestions how are you going escape any form of vortex how are you going dodge a shigoki one shot. And idk if you noticed but when you fight a lb they drain your stamina by alot and leave you empty now tell me after you have no stamina how are you going dodge his reduce stamina stab thing? You can't your dead or since his stamina drain skill knocks you down drains stamina AND DONT DO DAMAGE he can just troll you all day by flipping you over his shoulder all day

xjlxking
03-06-2017, 06:11 AM
You know I'm actually getting annoyed with the "have dodge use stamina" suggestions how are you going escape any form of vortex how are you going dodge a shigoki one shot. And idk if you noticed but when you fight a lb they drain your stamina by alot and leave you empty now tell me after you have no stamina how are you going dodge his reduce stamina stab thing? You can't your dead or since his stamina drain skill knocks you down drains stamina AND DONT DO DAMAGE he can just troll you all day by flipping you over his shoulder all day

lol

you should use some stamina to dodge a Sho's 1 hit attack. After all, if you do, you can pretty much take about 50% of his Hp with just two light attacks.

Braegulfer
03-06-2017, 06:21 AM
Reduction to cgb window and maybe parry window are the only viable options you put up oh and stamina

10-15% increase attack speed? You do realize this is making this game appeal to hard core gamers only right?

Speed up big guys only? This is a nerf to hybrid and assasin

w/e the fix is has to benefit all classes and not make the game harder for the lesser skilled players...shortening cgb and parry window might do that to tho so ya.... maybe add more chip damage on blocks? Also remoting the whole parry+gb combo might kill turtling all together.but I kinda like the parry + gb combo QQ

Thanks for the input, just wanted a discussion. I wanted the fast guys block window faster because no way it could keep up if attack speed got buffed across the board.

I'd also argue that appealing to hardcore gamers/players is the only viable tactic for balancing going forward. I think we've already run most of the scrubs and complete casuals out of here.

Braegulfer
03-06-2017, 06:32 AM
Increase chip damage on block. Have dodge use stamina.

Stamina bleed is already insane vs assassins at the highest level of play. They have a really hard time matching up with the stamina bleeders at all, so I think dodge costing stamina would just annihilate them completely. I do think increasing chip damage on block is a really good idea.

Simi_Xiamara_
03-06-2017, 06:39 AM
Thanks for the input, just wanted a discussion. I wanted the fast guys block window faster because no way it could keep up if attack speed got buffed across the board.

I'd also argue that appealing to hardcore gamers/players is the only viable tactic for balancing going forward. I think we've already run most of the scrubs and complete casuals out of here.

Na most them are in afk games take a look at the "world's 1st pk thread"

Also I don't want all the bad players gone they make me feel op

Simi_Xiamara_
03-06-2017, 06:40 AM
Thanks for the input, just wanted a discussion. I wanted the fast guys block window faster because no way it could keep up if attack speed got buffed across the board.

I'd also argue that appealing to hardcore gamers/players is the only viable tactic for balancing going forward. I think we've already run most of the scrubs and complete casuals out of here.

Na most them are in afk games take a look at the "world's 1st level 30 pk thread"

Also I don't want all the bad players gone they make me feel op

Delectable_Sin
03-06-2017, 06:54 AM
By simultaneously making the defensive windows smaller and increasing attack speed, you would make it impossible to dodge or parry. Increasing attack speed would be fine imo, but not reducing the window for parry or GB counter.

Increase block stance change for the big guys? Are you kidding me? Do you know what characters have the best win rates at the 80% win rate (or higher) match making? The Warden, Shugoki, Conq, and WL... so what big guys are you talking about exactly? I can see increasing it for the LB, but that's it.

All they really need to do is give each character an unblockable attack that is obviously telegraphed, and you can cancel at any time. They could increase the chip damage too, but honestly, an unblockable attack for each character that you can see from a mile away, is super slow, and able to cancel, would be the only thing this game needs.

FailOfHDDVD
03-06-2017, 06:59 AM
they should remove incoming attack indicators so that it takes more skill to block

Delectable_Sin
03-06-2017, 07:04 AM
they should remove incoming attack indicators so that it takes more skill to block

Totally agree.

Braegulfer
03-06-2017, 07:08 AM
By simultaneously making the defensive windows smaller and increasing attack speed, you would make it impossible to dodge or parry. Increasing attack speed would be fine imo, but not reducing the window for parry or GB counter.

Increase block stance change for the big guys? Are you kidding me? Do you know what characters have the best win rates at the 80% win rate (or higher) match making? The Warden, Shugoki, Conq, and WL... so what big guys are you talking about exactly? I can see increasing it for the LB, but that's it.

All they really need to do is give each character an unblockable attack that is obviously telegraphed, and you can cancel at any time. They could increase the chip damage too, but honestly, an unblockable attack for each character that you can see from a mile away, is super slow, and able to cancel, would be the only thing this game needs.

I was talking about shug/law/raider since they have much slower blocks than the other classes (timed and measured). But ONLY if attack speed were increased.
Believe I KNOW conq/war/warden/shug are the best chars in the game; this whole thread is an attempt to figure out how to mitigate their stamina bleed all defense all the time gamestyle that dominates higher end play. The reason they are so strong is that they can parry and cgb anything that comes at them while they turtle then unleash/stamina drain their opponents.

I agree that everyone needs an unblockable, would make a ton of things better. Chip damage would help too. Just way too many tools in the defensive toolbox at the moment. People think assasins are op, but they're ridiculously hard to get wins with in the high end (as you know).

Also, hmm, you're right about attack speed and parry/cgb windows. Probably better as an either/or situation.
I'm just starting to think that fighter games are so fast because if they're not, then eveything gets blocked/countered. I dunno.

Braegulfer
03-06-2017, 07:09 AM
they should remove incoming attack indicators so that it takes more skill to block

Yeah, I agree with that too.

Delectable_Sin
03-06-2017, 07:13 AM
I was talking about shug/law/raider since they have much slower blocks than the other classes (timed and measured). But ONLY if attack speed were increased.
Believe I KNOW conq/war/warden/shug are the best chars in the game; this whole thread is an attempt to figure out how to mitigate their stamina bleed all defense all the time gamestyle that dominates higher end play. The reason they are so strong is that they can parry and cgb anything that comes at them while they turtle then unleash/stamina drain their opponents.

I agree that everyone needs an unblockable, would make a ton of things better. Chip damage would help too. Just way too many tools in the defensive toolbox at the moment. People think assasins are op, but they're ridiculously hard to get wins with in the high end (as you know).

Also, hmm, you're right about attack speed and parry/cgb windows. Probably better as an either/or situation.
I'm just starting to think that fighter games are so fast because if they're not, then eveything gets blocked/countered. I dunno.

Ah, I see what you're saying.

Yeah, remove the block indicators, and just give every character an unblockable.

Simi_Xiamara_
03-06-2017, 07:17 AM
But but I'll die QQ can we just make that a game mode instead that way i can have the option to not suck