PDA

View Full Version : what joystick is the best for il-2



p1ssup
04-25-2004, 11:56 AM
hello all....just bought il-2 and i'm wondering what would be the best joystick to use or buy.
thanks dave

p1ssup
04-25-2004, 11:56 AM
hello all....just bought il-2 and i'm wondering what would be the best joystick to use or buy.
thanks dave

the_Wakeful
04-25-2004, 12:31 PM
I have the saitek x-45. very nice but you need rudder pedals too.

Hate life; Fear death

XyZspineZyX
04-25-2004, 12:45 PM
There is no "best" joystick for anything.

It's all down to personal preference, really.

What kind of throw do you like? Whippy? Medium? Firm? Stiff?

How big are your hands? Small hands might limit access to some sticks' buttons?

Do you have a throttle or rudder pedals? You should have both if you're serious about flight simming. In that case, you might need fewer stick buttons. If you have no rudder, you might need a "twisty stick" (although I wouldn't recommend them, they're awful). Or you might need at least a slider on the base of your stick for throttle control.

Figure out what you feel you need to have under your fingers at all times, and find a stick (and other gear) that gives you that capability.

TheKetamineKid
04-25-2004, 01:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
There is no "best" joystick for anything.

.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Normally I agree with what stglr says but today i have to differ. I use a MS Sidewinder stick with my X45 throttle.

Bloody magic.....since i dumped the X45 stick my online kill rate has doubled. I tried to get used to it but after 6mts i decided it had to go.

So....THIS is the best stick and anyone who wants to square up and find out, can meet me on HL and ill set them on fire http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Best = MS SW + X45 Throttle

"Full real? How can you call it full real when you're still using auto-pitch on that 109......now get your coat and p*ss of back to Crimson Skies!"

wright_7
04-25-2004, 01:19 PM
Get a cheapie at first cause youll probably break the first one.Most of us do

Lav69
04-25-2004, 01:20 PM
Stiglr is right. Its all about preference. I have the X45 with CH Pro Pedals and love it. If you find the X45 stick stiff or jerky apply some wax at base under black ring and it becomes smoothe as silk.

_______________
I'm fixin to.

tlocus
04-25-2004, 01:24 PM
I really like my MS precision 2 stick but really want to find a precision2 FF.
I know they no longer make them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Anyone know where they still sell them new?

t

TsPage (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/thomas3120/MySetup.htm)

ELEM
04-25-2004, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ssup:
hello all....just bought il-2 and i'm wondering what would be the best joystick to use or buy.
thanks dave<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You cant go far wrong with a Saitek Cyborg 3D FF. Very precise, reliable and good value for money.

BTW, who's Dave, and what are you thanking him for?

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/I-16_desktop.jpg

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-25-2004, 02:03 PM
I have had the Logitechs but I found that the MS Sidewinder Precision 2 works great for me. I have had it for well over a year and still works perfectly. But right now the Cyborg EVO is rated as best stick in the 40$ price range ahead of MSSP2. One reason could be is the fact that MS no longer makes joysticks or gamepads.
I got a few buds who use the EVO and love it. Two of them have used the X-45 but have returned it because of the fact you need rudder pedals to fully enjoy it which cost some money.
The EVO will be my next stick with out doubt.
=S=
www.vmf-214.net (http://www.vmf-214.net)
(The Orginal BlackSheep Squadron of IL-2)

http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/images/hellcat_head_short.jpg

CRSutton
04-25-2004, 02:04 PM
I just got a Saitek Evo and love it. It is a twisty stick and very smooth for under 40 bucks. Wish I had gotten the FF version though. It is a bit more money. My logitech wingman FF was a load of crap. Never worked right.

XyZspineZyX
04-25-2004, 02:52 PM
I got burnt early in Saitek's career with teh X35/36T units and I don't think I'll ever forget it.

Saitek to me is and always will be synonymous with crap. Junk. Trash.

As for Microsoft, they come well regarded in joystick circles, but I'll always avoid anything Microsoft unless (like in OS) I can avoid it.

To my way of thinking, you want to consider CH or Thrustmaster, and a few specialty units. And that's IT.

jfri
04-25-2004, 04:35 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by p1ssup:
hello all....just bought il-2 and i'm wondering what would be the best joystick to use or buy.

I use the CH products Flight Sim Yoke and rudder pedals. In addition to that I have MS Sidewinder Precision 2 and a thrustmaster gamepad.
Advantage with the yoke. Many buttons and levers. But maybe you can't make so fast movements with it but you still can't because of g forces. I tried steering with the MS stick instead but it didn't work out better.

x6BL_Brando
04-25-2004, 04:54 PM
CH Fighterstick & Pro pedals here http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Totally rugged, beautiful action, infinitely programmeable....worth the expense if you're seriously in to flight sims.

HighSpeedDirt
04-25-2004, 05:05 PM
I have a MS Precision Pro FF2 but I have absolutly no clue what throttle to get. I did a quick search on the X45 but I only see it bundled with the joystick. So, any suggestions?

I am ugly,
Out of Shape,
And women hate me from 30 feet away

Bearcat99
04-25-2004, 07:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HighSpeedDirt:
I have a MS Precision Pro FF2 but I have absolutly no clue what throttle to get. I did a quick search on the X45 but I only see it bundled with the joystick. So, any suggestions?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah get an X45 stick. Especially if you have a MSFFB stick already. Use the throttle of the X45 and use it's stick as a button bay. It's stiff spring makes it an excellent button bay. You can put it off to the side but acessable to your hands.. since you arent using the X 7 Y axii of the stick you dont have to worry about comfort per se.. all you need is access to the buttons..preferably with your left hand. Works GREAT with a MSFFB and pedals. $79 for a good throttle AND a button bay while still keeping FFB and having the optionm to place your rudder on a twist handle or a rocker switch is priceless.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | IL2 Manager (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/detail_fichier.php?ID=1353) | MUDMOVERS (http://www.mudmovers.com/)

[This message was edited by Bearcat99 on Sun April 25 2004 at 07:15 PM.]

GK.
04-25-2004, 07:12 PM
Get a CH fighterstick, X45 (but just use the throttle, not the worthless joystick) and ch pro pedals and you are well on your way to dominating the online skies in a fashion similar to that of myself.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
*Proud Chute Shooter*
"P40's can't out run the zero, so we'll have to outfly them." -Ben Affleck

lil_labbit
04-25-2004, 07:38 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

They say JoyStick ... (on first post) and you...

ROFLMAO

- The JoyStick won the Virtual War - (ooh AND "Trim On A Slider") LOL

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day

lil_labbit
04-25-2004, 07:39 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif
It depends on your budget realy...
But you'll notice Saitek X45 is spread widely - I got one too - and wouldn't miss my Saitek cyborg evo beside it neither http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (yup both) dont wanne miss my twist-rudder (eat yur heart out Stig http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) but ya said it already "It's all down to personal preference, really." yes your right when your right - so try some p1ssoff http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day

AdEridanus
04-25-2004, 08:00 PM
Saitek X45, a great all-rounder. Especially if you're a "projectile flight simmer", like me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Tough to damage.

Stiglr has a good point though, its all relative to you, especially considering hand size and strength. Go find a store that has a lot of them on display, and see which one feels right. Hell, think of me and give one a hurl! Just yell "DAMN KI-84!", and throw. That will get you some customer service in a hurry.

lil_labbit
04-25-2004, 08:11 PM
(in a full store) "Is it normal this trigger detaches?" hehehe

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day

JG7_Rall
04-25-2004, 08:13 PM
If you're tight on money the Evo is awesome. I'm just looking to get a throttle now...

"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!

Locust_
04-26-2004, 12:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tlocus:
I really like my MS precision 2 stick but really want to find a precision2 FF.
I know they no longer make them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Anyone know where they still sell them new?

t

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/thomas3120/MySetup.htm<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have one its not brand new but dam near...

Ill sell it for 5000 $ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif US

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/161sig.jpg

Fighter Sweeps is here come join the fun.....
http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

FatBoyHK
04-26-2004, 12:16 PM
I wonder, why no one suggest Cougar?

Or am I the only one wondering?

Venom079
04-26-2004, 12:24 PM
I'd go with a cougar if I had the $, but luckly I found a http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif MSFF2!

http://img48.photobucket.com/albums/v146/79th_Venom/RaidHotMamma_LG_copy.jpg

carguy_
04-26-2004, 12:32 PM
I wonder why ppl recommend sticks without FFB.X45 hasn`t got FFB,does it?

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

ASM 1
04-26-2004, 01:03 PM
no the X45 hasnt got FFB Although many people like it cos it is a relatively cheap HOTAS system. Some use the throttle with an MSFFB2

Personally I've got a FFB 2 and (heartily recommend it) I want another as a spare, but I may have to give up as they are going for silly money on ebay now i.e. 80+ and I'm sorry but excellent though they may be (slap to micro$oft for discontinuing them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif Damn, I'm glad I got mine when I did http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ), I didn't pay that for mine when I got it new, and I aint gonna start now.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

S!

Andrew

cracovian
04-26-2004, 01:08 PM
The thing about Cougar HOTAS is that it's the most realistic setup for the money but not the easiest one to get your kills with...

I also know that lots of us (me included) have had serious issues with throttle pots going out after a couple of months. The quality should be bulletproof when you drop $300 on this set.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
I wonder, why no one suggest Cougar?

Or am I the only one wondering?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ASM 1
04-26-2004, 01:14 PM
Talking about MSFFB2's whats the replacement policy? or Isn't there one? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Registered mine with MS as soon as I got it and was wondering......Less than a year old.....

S!

Andrew

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r/ta152Hns-2.jpg

Venom079
04-26-2004, 01:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by asm016:
Personally I've got a FFB 2 and (heartily recommend it) I want another as a spare, but I may have to give up as they are going for silly money on ebay now i.e. 80+ and I'm sorry but excellent though they may be (slap to micro$oft for discontinuing them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif Damn, I'm glad I got mine when I did http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ), I didn't pay that for mine when I got it new, and I aint gonna start now.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif yeah, I have to admitt that I got suckered into buying one on ebay...paid way toooo much for it, but hell it's worth every penny http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img48.photobucket.com/albums/v146/79th_Venom/RaidHotMamma_LG_copy.jpg

FatBoyHK
04-26-2004, 01:20 PM
That is the problem I need to deal with, but it is more serious for me, it is the Y-AXIS... I will replace it (and all the pots) with Halls Sensors, after that they should last forever, just like (the other parts of) my Cougar http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Personally I think it is not hard to get kill using Cougars, quite the contraory I think (of course, when the pots is still at their best)... and the stiffness of the stick always remind me to fly gently, this help me learning how to conserve energy, and more importantly tranformed me from a TnB newbie into a believer of BnZ tactics... Thx, Cougar :P

DONB3397
04-26-2004, 01:38 PM
I've noticed (in over a half-dozen threads on this subject) that we all seem pretty biased toward the setup we've used successfully. It also appears that some experienced and effective pilots often use some very basic and simple systems.

For me, the goal has been to eliminate the keyboard. Looking away from the screen, I've learned, can be a bad thing in combat. So I bought a stick that let me assign several functions to 'buttons' on the stick -- all weapons systems, flaps, landing gear, throttle, rudder control, view control, etc. An old MS Sidewinder works for me. Then, I added comms, maps, icons, light switchs, engine controls, trim controls, etc. to a Nostromo N52 keypad. I seldom touch the standard keyboard.

A big issue seems to be view control -- tophat switch or mouse or TrackIR? If you're comfortable with a thumb-controlled views, the old MS Sidewinder still does the job. But if you want real rubber-neck flexibility in virtual combat, the TrackIR2 seems to work well.

Start out simple (multi-switch joystick) and add what you need...as you discover it. The people in the community will provide techniques, opinions, purchase sites and war stories to help you add on. Good luck.

CountFloyd__
04-26-2004, 09:16 PM
Logitech Wingman Strike Force 3D:
- Optical precision.
- Dual hats and throttle.
- Not made by Microshaft, so support will last longer than 6 fiscal quarters if Gate$ gets a bug up his a$$
So what's not to love?

RicknZ
04-27-2004, 01:17 AM
Didnt like either the X-45 or the sidewinders.

So for me i went with the thrustmaster topgun2 js.

IMHO bestlow end JS around.

Eagle_361st
04-27-2004, 02:07 AM
I use the CH Fighter Stick/USB throttle and pro pedals combo. It is rugged, accurate, will eliminate the keyboard for anything other than typing, and most importantly will last forever. But it will cost you money right around $300 USD for the whole set-up. If you don't want to go that route, start off with a MS Sidewinder, good reliable inexpenssive stick to learn on and wreck. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1079.jpg

Tully__
04-27-2004, 07:40 AM
My standard recommendation:

Joysticks are a very personal preference. Budget for US$40 or more and try as many as you can of:

Microsoft
Thrustmaster
CH Products
Saitek

then buy the best featured one that you like.


If you're interested, I use the Saitek X-45 and have also had and liked the Saitek Cyborg and Thrustmaster Topgun Afterburner II.

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/legalsig.jpg

IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)
Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)

Salut
Tully

Scen
04-27-2004, 10:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cracovian:
The thing about Cougar HOTAS is that it's the most realistic setup for the money but not the easiest one to get your kills with...

I also know that lots of us (me included) have had serious issues with throttle pots going out after a couple of months. The quality should be bulletproof when you drop $300 on this set.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
I wonder, why no one suggest Cougar?

Or am I the only one wondering?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well just to further add to the Cougar dicussion. I can say that to anyone thinking of getting a Cougar they should consider a few things.

I have a hard time recommending it because the cost associated to get the Cougar where it should be is accessive.

The Cougar bar none is an awsome stick with almost unlimited programming and versatility however it has some issues with regards to design.

The first prototypes where machined from stainless steel and they where awsome. But for cost reasons they couldn't make the stick out of Stainless so they made it from a much cheaper casted metal. When they did this they didn't take into consideration the wear and tear factor. With that said the manufacturing process imparted some flaws meaning the sticks can sometimes be sloppy. The break switch has been known to break and the stick gimble tolarances get worse with time.

They also made the mistake of using pots again even though it's a digital stick. After a while the pots will wear and you will get spiking.

So a couple of really smart guys that work in machine shops eventually replaced the gimble mechanisms with top quality components. I have one made by a guy named Evenstrain and there is another guy name EJ who does the Uber mods.

Another person came up with the idea of replacing the pots with HAL sensors thus eliminating the spiking issue for almost the life time of the stick.

Combind the two and you will have one of the best sticks ever created. However at the end of the day you will have spent $600.00 US to get it there.

Now I'm not that good but some guys can pick off cockpits engines wing roots with these sticks because their accuracy is unmatched period.

So what's the story? If you just play IL2 there are many other quality sticks to choose from. If you're like me and play many types of sims including Falcon4 LOMAC IL2FB etc. then you may want to consider the cougar as an option.

I've had mine now for 4-5 months and it's the best stick I've ever owned. The precision is perfect no hickups or spikes what so ever. The stick is amazing.

Scendores two and a half cents.

RevvinUK
04-27-2004, 11:50 AM
I'm happy with my USB CH Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals. Tried my best to like the Cougar but sold it after 3 failed me in 18 months of ownership.

Revvin

The CH Hangar - Profiles, scripting ideas and discussion for CH users (http://www.ch-hangar.com)

Scen
04-27-2004, 12:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Revvin_UK:
I'm happy with my USB CH Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals. Tried my best to like the Cougar but sold it after 3 failed me in 18 months of ownership.

Revvin

http://www.ch-hangar.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey can't go wrong with CH. I was fortunate in that my original Cougar never failed in the year or so that I've owned it. I did the Evenstrain upgrade with HAL sensors as preventative maintanace. Sick in the head I am but it was well worth it.

Scendore

BpGemini
04-27-2004, 01:50 PM
I have one of these;

http://www.logitech.com/lang/images/0/911.gif

Logitech Freedom 2.4 Ghz Cordless
* 10 buttons (18 commands when one button is assigned as a shift)
* Smooth heavy metal throttle design
* Twisty handle for rudder control
* Cordless
* $50.00-60.00 U.S.

http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.
The Pig Sty (http://blitzpigs.com/)

FatBoyHK
04-27-2004, 02:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scen:
Well just to further add to the Cougar dicussion. I can say that to anyone thinking of getting a Cougar they should consider a few things.

I have a hard time recommending it because the cost associated to get the Cougar where it should be is accessive.

The Cougar bar none is an awsome stick with almost unlimited programming and versatility however it has some issues with regards to design.

The first prototypes where machined from stainless steel and they where awsome. But for cost reasons they couldn't make the stick out of Stainless so they made it from a much cheaper casted metal. When they did this they didn't take into consideration the wear and tear factor. With that said the manufacturing process imparted some flaws meaning the sticks can sometimes be sloppy. The break switch has been known to break and the stick gimble tolarances get worse with time.

They also made the mistake of using pots again even though it's a digital stick. After a while the pots will wear and you will get spiking.

So a couple of really smart guys that work in machine shops eventually replaced the gimble mechanisms with top quality components. I have one made by a guy named Evenstrain and there is another guy name EJ who does the Uber mods.

Another person came up with the idea of replacing the pots with HAL sensors thus eliminating the spiking issue for almost the life time of the stick.

Combind the two and you will have one of the best sticks ever created. However at the end of the day you will have spent $600.00 US to get it there.

Now I'm not that good but some guys can pick off cockpits engines wing roots with these sticks because their accuracy is unmatched period.

So what's the story? If you just play IL2 there are many other quality sticks to choose from. If you're like me and play many types of sims including Falcon4 LOMAC IL2FB etc. then you may want to consider the cougar as an option.

I've had mine now for 4-5 months and it's the best stick I've ever owned. The precision is perfect no hickups or spikes what so ever. The stick is amazing.

Scendores two and a half cents.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

very very all-rounded comment on Cougar. I wanted to tell you guy exactly the same, but I am too busy to do so....

Out of the box Cougar is the best in this universe for its programmability, but it is not too great in term of material quality and craftmanship. The pots will fail sooner or later, so the axis mechanism.... I am at great pain to tell you I have both of them, and now I am evaluating various solutions for these, which Scen has mentioned already.

either way I need to pay $600 more for a hotas set which cost $300+ itself, added up to a total of about $1000... But I don't regret about it at all, because I am a hardcore simmer.... If you are with me, Cougar is a no-brainer for you.

Neww_Guy
04-27-2004, 08:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ELEM:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ssup:
hello all....just bought il-2 and i'm wondering what would be the best joystick to use or buy.
thanks dave<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You cant go far wrong with a Saitek Cyborg 3D FF. Very precise, reliable and good value for money.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes indeed- great stick and good feel for only 52 bucks.
Though i recently got an awesome deal on a MS FF stick- the ORIGINAL- not FF2- 10 bucks on ebay INCLUDING SHIPPING! Its very precise- but works best using win98SE.

Tully__
04-27-2004, 09:01 PM
Cougar mods & tweaks can be read about here (http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=35029) ... better start limbering up your wallet Cougar owners, that thread is drool material http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/legalsig.jpg

IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)
Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)

Salut
Tully

clint-ruin
04-27-2004, 09:43 PM
Cheapest I have been able to find the X-45 in australia is here:

http://www.techbuy.com.au/product.asp?prodId=11351&catId=JOYSTICKS&parentId=JOYSTICKS_JOYSTICK

Tully or anyone know of any place cheaper?

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

Tully__
04-27-2004, 10:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:
Cheapest I have been able to find the X-45 in australia is here:

http://www.techbuy.com.au/product.asp?prodId=11351&catId=JOYSTICKS&parentId=JOYSTICKS_JOYSTICK

Tully or anyone know of any place cheaper?

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a very good price. Cheapest I've seen them is about AUD$165.

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/legalsig.jpg

IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)
Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)

Salut
Tully

Locust_
04-27-2004, 10:58 PM
I wonder what mayhem I could conjure up with some of the stuff @ this guys sight

http://www.markerinbound.com/pcatd.htm

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/161sig.jpg

Fighter Sweeps is here come join the fun.....
http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

Locust_
04-27-2004, 11:02 PM
O.... man I want to have a stack of these



http://www.markerinbound.com/t8.html

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/161sig.jpg

Fighter Sweeps is here come join the fun.....
http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

XyZspineZyX
04-28-2004, 12:06 AM
My best advice is go to a computer "warehouse" store that carries a good selection of joysticks and try them all out. Decide what ergonomics and features you want vs. how much you can afford to spend. Then shop for the best deal.

I started out with an ancient Saitek X36-7 three axis/four button joystick. Rudementary but it's still working. When I got IL-2 I knew I wanted something much better. I chose the X-45. 54 programmable buttons...you never need use the keyboard again. But it may not be right for you if you have small hands or large hands. I don't have rudder pedals (yet) and use the rocker for rudder. Many say they don't like it but I found that by tweaking the sensitivity curves in-game it works fine. Some say it looks too "futuristic". I say if you're looking at your joystick you'll find me and about 50 others on your six.
Bottom line, for the money the X-45 is hard to beat.

"That's my story and I'm sticking to it."

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9334/Image6.jpg

CaptainGelo
04-28-2004, 12:17 AM
saitek..80$ (http://www.gamers-depot.com/accessories/Saitek/x45/001.htm)

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''


plane is 2slow, guns are 2weak and DM suck?...Then click here (http://www.hmp16.com/hotstuff/downloads/Justin%20Timberlake%20-%20Cry%20Me%20A%20River.mp3)



http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
"Big Bills suck, small Bills don't"&lt;----WRONG!!!! all Bills suck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

CaptainGelo
04-28-2004, 12:18 AM
saitek 79.99$ (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005TOTG/104-6611710-4320711?v=glance)

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''


plane is 2slow, guns are 2weak and DM suck?...Then click here (http://www.hmp16.com/hotstuff/downloads/Justin%20Timberlake%20-%20Cry%20Me%20A%20River.mp3)



http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
"Big Bills suck, small Bills don't"&lt;----WRONG!!!! all Bills suck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tully__
04-28-2004, 12:45 AM
Oleg86, US$80 is ~AUD$110 plus shipping, handling, insurance and duty, AUD$140 is a good price.

In retail stores here, they generally run AUD$170-$200 because they're a low turnover item and warehousing costs are added as well.

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/legalsig.jpg

IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)
Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)

Salut
Tully

CaptainGelo
04-28-2004, 12:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
Oleg86, US$80 is ~AUD$110 plus shipping, handling, insurance and duty, AUD$140 is a good price.

In retail stores here, they generally run AUD$170-$200 because they're a low turnover item and warehousing costs are added as well.

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/legalsig.jpg

_IL2 Forums Moderator_
http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm
http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip

Salut
Tully<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

maybe next time I should read whole tread http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif didnt knew it was AUD$

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''
http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''


plane is 2slow, guns are 2weak and DM suck?...Then click here (http://www.hmp16.com/hotstuff/downloads/Justin%20Timberlake%20-%20Cry%20Me%20A%20River.mp3)



http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
"Big Bills suck, small Bills don't"&lt;----WRONG!!!! all Bills suck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Fehler
04-28-2004, 02:21 AM
Really, it's a matter of preference. It's almost like asking "What girl is the best to marry?" Everyone will tell you his girl.

For me, the best bang for the buck was the X-45. The joystick spring was a little tight compared to what I had used in the past, but after a short while it gets easier. The setup isnt the easiest to program, but when you have it done to your taste, you can set your keyboard off to the side and never touch it again.

I do recommend figuring out a way to secure the X45 as it is a light weight stick compared to the Cougar, and can flop around if not secured in some fashion. Some people use velcro, others tape. I decided to go a step further and engineer a flight seat that put the stick and throttle portions in their proper place, but again, it's all about personal taste.

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/chair.jpg

Oh, by the way, my wife IS the best!

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

Scen
04-28-2004, 02:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scen:
Well just to further add to the Cougar dicussion. I can say that to anyone thinking of getting a Cougar they should consider a few things.

I have a hard time recommending it because the cost associated to get the Cougar where it should be is accessive.

The Cougar bar none is an awsome stick with almost unlimited programming and versatility however it has some issues with regards to design.

The first prototypes where machined from stainless steel and they where awsome. But for cost reasons they couldn't make the stick out of Stainless so they made it from a much cheaper casted metal. When they did this they didn't take into consideration the wear and tear factor. With that said the manufacturing process imparted some flaws meaning the sticks can sometimes be sloppy. The break switch has been known to break and the stick gimble tolarances get worse with time.

They also made the mistake of using pots again even though it's a digital stick. After a while the pots will wear and you will get spiking.

So a couple of really smart guys that work in machine shops eventually replaced the gimble mechanisms with top quality components. I have one made by a guy named Evenstrain and there is another guy name EJ who does the Uber mods.

Another person came up with the idea of replacing the pots with HAL sensors thus eliminating the spiking issue for almost the life time of the stick.

Combind the two and you will have one of the best sticks ever created. However at the end of the day you will have spent $600.00 US to get it there.

Now I'm not that good but some guys can pick off cockpits engines wing roots with these sticks because their accuracy is unmatched period.

So what's the story? If you just play IL2 there are many other quality sticks to choose from. If you're like me and play many types of sims including Falcon4 LOMAC IL2FB etc. then you may want to consider the cougar as an option.

I've had mine now for 4-5 months and it's the best stick I've ever owned. The precision is perfect no hickups or spikes what so ever. The stick is amazing.

Scendores two and a half cents.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

very very all-rounded comment on Cougar. I wanted to tell you guy exactly the same, but I am too busy to do so....

Out of the box Cougar is the best in this universe for its programmability, but it is not too great in term of material quality and craftmanship. The pots will fail sooner or later, so the axis mechanism.... I am at great pain to tell you I have both of them, and now I am evaluating various solutions for these, which Scen has mentioned already.

either way I need to pay $600 more for a hotas set which cost $300+ itself, added up to a total of about $1000... But I don't regret about it at all, because I am a hardcore simmer.... If you are with me, Cougar is a no-brainer for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BTW Evenstrain is coming out with a mod called the Evenstrain lite and it will be a better offering for those that don't want to spend as much money.

I'm not sure what the status is but I will post one soon.

Scendore

CaptainGelo
04-28-2004, 02:46 PM
This one is cool, and easy to remember what buttons do...

http://www.gatorcade.com/joystick.jpg

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''
http://www.danasoft.com/sig/oleg86.jpg
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''


plane is 2slow, guns are 2weak and DM suck?...Then click here (http://www.hmp16.com/hotstuff/downloads/Justin%20Timberlake%20-%20Cry%20Me%20A%20River.mp3)

Fear british army. (http://216.144.230.195/Videos/Medium_WMP8/British_Attack.wmv)



http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
"Big Bills suck, small Bills don't"&lt;----WRONG!!!! all Bills suck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Scen
04-28-2004, 02:46 PM
Here is a post from Greg regarding the Evenstrain Lites

The EvenStrain Lites are coming along slowly. The design isn't an issue... the money is.

When I originally conceived the idea of the Lites the greatest challenge was cost... keeping them under $200.00US. An important aspect of achieving that goal was using stock lower shafts. Thus far we've had poor luck securing them, and we've decided not to use them.

This leaves us two options. The first is to machine them, as Ian does. Not cheap, as he will attest. This method would add approximately $50.00 to the price (based upon small lot quantities). The second choice is to have them investment cast. This too wouldn't be cheap (difficult to find casters who will accept small lot orders).

If we machine the shafts we then need to trim costs in other areas of the design. I have researched making the gimbals pivot shafts and bushings using an injection molded composite. But then I have to build the tooling. Kaching!

At this point I'm trying to find a vendor I wish to work with who can cast the lower stick shafts to spec. Thus far I haven't been impressed with the folks I've found.

I continue work on the three prototypes, and indeed I've installed mine into the base of Cougar 04879. I've used components from the original EvenStrain design to allow me to test stick loads and spring function, as well as clearances with the PCB, wiring and HE sensors to the base.

So, as is the case with most manufacturing, Kathy and I are trying to decide just how much money we're willing to spend on this. We lost alot of money on the EvenStrain 2nd production run (due to the bad yoke material), and we certainly do not want to experience that again.

The Lites design is solid and simple. We simply have to decide whether we want to throw a bunch of money at the idea, and if/when we'll see any of it return in the form of sales. Much of our dilemma centers around G/TM's sales plans for the Cougar, though we certainly don't feel they have any responibilty to share their plans with us (they have their own show going, and it's their show... rightfully so). The fact of the matter is that few Cougar owners mod their sticks with a set of aftermarket gimbals, so we are naturally cautious about spending alot of money on tooling/large lot quantities.

I'll post pics and additional info at the appropriate time.

Regards,

Greg

CaptainGelo
04-28-2004, 02:49 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif wow

http://www.thegnet.ch/xbox/steelbattalion/bilder/joystick.jpg

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''
http://www.danasoft.com/sig/oleg86.jpg
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''


plane is 2slow, guns are 2weak and DM suck?...Then click here (http://www.hmp16.com/hotstuff/downloads/Justin%20Timberlake%20-%20Cry%20Me%20A%20River.mp3)

Fear british army. (http://216.144.230.195/Videos/Medium_WMP8/British_Attack.wmv)



http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v68/wolf4ever/Animation3.gif
"Big Bills suck, small Bills don't"&lt;----WRONG!!!! all Bills suck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Zen--
04-28-2004, 03:29 PM
http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=53251

Review of a fellow who has owned both the Cougar and the CH stick. He was surprised, but he ended up liking the CH stick much more than the Cougar.


I own a Cougar as well. As much as I love it, it is NOT a good stick for IL2/FB/AEP. Too stiff, too hard to do effective gunnery with. Not bad for jet sims, but a real pain in the behind for IL2.

When I first started using it, the stiffness actually made my wrist and forearm hurt from using it. I couldn't fly well, had problems controlling the plane and tended to vastly overcorrect during gunnery. As stiff as the stick is, it is too sensitive in pitch and does not make precise movements well. This is one of the big reasons people like to get the stock Cougar modified..to reduce stiffness, eliminate center play and smooth it out.

Design flaws include defective potentiometers, buttons that break or fall off and firmware issues where the stick loses communication with the PC and drops its calibration.

Not everyone is affected by these problems, but those that aren't are lucky. I used mine for 9 months before I finally admitted it was costing me kills due to the stiffness and during that time I had my fair share of problems, the most notable being the pots went spikey in the first month that I had the stick.


Good points include the amazing Foxy programming software which can make your Cougar do just about anything imaginable, the fact that it is all metal and the fact that it is just a damn cool stick. I can't tell you what the feeling is like using it to play a game...but it's good, really good http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


For a WW2 flight simmer, this stick is not worth 300 dollars US and it's difficult to justify spending another 400-600 dollars on mods to reduce the stick tension for playabilities sake...assuming you can find the mod in the first place. The two main mod engineers do not make them on a regular basis because demand is low.

I don't recommend the Cougar for AEP simmers...I've had it, used it and found it to be way too difficult.


That being said, I refuse to sell my Cougar (#04440), still love it and will always love it because it is simply that cool. I just don't use it for AEP anymore, but maybe one day I will pick up the Uber-2 or Evenstrain mod http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Zen-

clint-ruin
04-28-2004, 03:47 PM
Not sure if they're still in stock, but

http://www.minidigital.com.au/largerDesc.aspx?productid=5574&catid=475&brandid=29

Still lists having the MS Force Feedback 2 joystick for $177. Again for aussies :&gt;

Edit: should mention they list the USB HOTAS Cougar for $548.90 here:

http://www.minidigital.com.au/largerDesc.aspx?productid=23439&catid=475&brandid=92

Which is the cheapest I've ever seen them in oz - typically $650-750 at other stores.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

Xiolablu3
04-28-2004, 05:30 PM
I thought that the Sidewinder wasnt compatible with Windows XP???

I know the SW 2 is, but I read the SW 1 wasnt.

Proberton
04-28-2004, 05:36 PM
Thanks clinty

ddsflyer
04-28-2004, 09:30 PM
Go all the way with CH Products. Get their Fighterstick-Pro Throttle combo and add rudder pedals. NO ONE makes comparable products with their quality, precision and durability. I've been a user of theirs for many years and they have stood behind their produsts 100%.

P4 3.4GHz Northwood
Intel D875PBZL
GeForce 5950
1.0GB Kingston HyperX PC3200
W.D. Dual 80GB SATA RAID
Plextor PX-708A
Lite-On 52x
Creative Audigy2 ZS

clint-ruin
04-29-2004, 03:41 AM
I don't have any experience buying from TechBuy [or the Minidigital mob I linked for the MS FFB 2 / TM Cougar], they were just the cheapest matches I could find after doing some digging.
I will probably end up getting the X-45 from TechBuy myself at the end of the week though, since I still haven't been able to find any place cheaper. In fact even finding the X-45 rather than the Saitek 4 button sticks is proving quite difficult on most aussie online stores. If you find someplace else that you know to be reliable stocking any of the above sticks you could always ask them to price match I guess.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

Zeke-pl
04-29-2004, 04:06 AM
Thrustmaster Afterburner II. Why? Because, for 40 $ I couldn't get any set with detachable throttle and rocking button (for use as rudder control). I have used it for two years of intensive IL 2 / FB playing, and still works fine. Easy to configure, and with one button set as "shift" I have 18 functions controlled without touching keyboard. Shape of stick is very comfortable - look at small horizontal part at bottom of stick: http://europe.thrustmaster.com/products/d_prd.php?p=T64&fam=6

Tully__
04-29-2004, 06:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I thought that the Sidewinder wasnt compatible with Windows XP???

I know the SW 2 is, but I read the SW 1 wasnt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's compatible, it's just not supported (meaning only generic drivers and no OEM profiling software).

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/legalsig.jpg

IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)
Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)

Salut
Tully

hendar101
04-29-2004, 07:26 AM
If there is a better all-round stick than the Saitek Cyborg Evo I'd like to hear it....costs bugger all for the quality too (less than 35($50) I think, I got mine for about 15 in Hong Kong)

Have worries about duability though, last night I was playing and after a fews minutes of dog fighting I heard a loud &lt;creak&gt; and realised I was squeezing the life out of the poor thing! Damn IL2 is intense!

Hendys Handy Flyin' Tips No34:
Don't put your landing gear down when traveling at 700k/m......I found that out last night......

There is no enemy. Anywhere.

Mud_Zombie9
04-29-2004, 09:23 AM
My Saitek Evo just broke 3 days ago . So now i've got a new computer supposed to show up tomorrow by 4:30 p.m and no flight stick!!! AAAGGHHH!!! My wife thinks it's funny! I'll show her funny when she finds me hanging in the closet by the usb cord of my broken Evo!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif