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Elzziwelzzif
03-04-2017, 11:26 PM
There are some things i wish to discuss about the Nuboshi.

I love playing them, and currently my highest hero is the Nuboshi, but there are some problems and inconsistencies i keep running into.

When fighting bots (level 2 and up) and decent players you notice the slower guard switch speed. During the time you input a guard switch and and you actually defending that side most "fast types" can land an additional hit on the side you wish to guard, and are able to switch to the other side when your guard has switched, making it impossible to defend against chain attacks.
While this problem isn't that great against the majority of the players, the bots seem to be able to exploit this like no tomorrow.
The same applies to attacking. Switching sides takes longer for a Nobushi than it does for (most) defending heroes, and since you bounce off if you land on a block this makes it hard to start a chain (during which you can fast switch sides).

Now let me state something first: I do NOT have a problem with the slow guard changes!
Your wieling a 2M+ stick with a blade attached. Moving a 2M object from one side to the other, while keeping it positioned right shouldn't be as fast as (lets say) moving your upper body 45 degrees so your left hand becomes dominant over your right hand (or the other way around).

The problem i have is that, ones you get harassed you can do nothing against it.
Depending on where you read the Nobushi has multiple descriptions:

Ubisoft site:

The Nobushi
The Nobushi are the defenders of the villages too far from the Imperial City for the army to reach. They are elegant fighters with a curious weapon. They have the lightest armor that allows them to move like the wind but cannot take a lot of damage. But donít let their appearance fool you, they are one of the most effective fighters the Samurai have.
FIGHTING STYLE
The Nobushi is a Zone Character. She tries to keep her distance while constantly annoying any attackers.
DIFFICULTY: HARD
GOOD ZONE CONTROL
LONGEST ATTACK RANGE


Ingame character selection:

Hybrid | Hard
Nobushi
Long Range, Versatile Retreats.



When reading the descriptions about the Nobushi i notice 2 very common features:
- Attack range.
- Movement.

I don't have much to say about the attack range (besides some attack flaws, which ill come back to later).
When it comes to movement (and retreats), she is basically the same as any other hero in this game.

Dodge range is the same.
Dodge transitions into a roll, which distance and stamina cost is/ seems the same.
Movement speed is the same.

Depending on who'm you fight, there isn't a way to get away from the enemy.
Doing a side dash keeps you in range of their attacks (you might dodge just one hit).
Doing a back-dash will keep you in range of any jump or longer ranged attacks (charges, enemies with longer weapons).
I think that the Nobushi need a tool to promote their retreats/ movements (suggestion for this will be at the end of the post).

In regards to their attacks:
Nobushi's attacks aren't the fastest, and most side attacks take up a lot of room (with a decent chance to hit a teammate who thinks you can't handle yourself alone).
Again, with these large range attacks isn't much wrong, nor is there a problem with the attack speed.
The only problem i see is that, as they were first promoted as "zone characters" their zone is pretty limited.
When fighting minions (the small dudes in Dominion) you dance around a lot, taking a lot of time to kill individual small fries (mostly with heavy attack)
I think that the transition between enemies should/ could be a bit smoother. Now you "slash" a guy, followed by a kick to take him down. Why not make them transition from the slash for guy 1, while you use the kick to take down guy 2?

As for the actual zone attack, why not make it so that, once you have guard mode up, you can choose with side this goes to/ comes from?
Depending on the levels (mostly in duals) you have a small area to move in, which as a nobushi means you have to keep your right side clear as your zone attack will most likely hit a wall.

Last thing about attacks is the Bleed: you fight with a bladed weapon, just like every other warrior in this game. Why do our weapons cause bleed while almost non of the others do this? We even have a passive skill, as well as an active Feat for this.
I think we could/ should focus that bleed on something else.


Now, for the last part: the suggestions:

Movements:

Increase the amount of dashes you can do before a roll to at least 2.
Change Iron Lungs feat into the Rush feat.


Attacks: Zonde

When you are in Guard Stance, the direction of the Zone Attack can be chosen.
When guarding right, the zone attack will come from the left, switching your guard stance to the left.
When guarding left, the zone attack will come from the right, switching your guard stance to the right.
Make the non-guard mode "minion killing" animations a lot faster/ faster transitioning between minions.

Attack: Bleed.

Increase all Bleed attacks by the amount they would normally bleed the target (and remove the bleed)
Increase all other attacks by 65% of their "way of the shark" damage.
Change the Sharpen Blade feat to a new passive increasing a low "light attack" attack speed, and a fast "heavy attack" attack speed.
Second suggestion for Sharpen Blade: Change it into a much larger Smoke Bomb, breaking not only the lock on but also everyone's aim assist, Radar and HUD while in (or trying to target someone in) the smoke. Should exhaust everyone in the smoke (besides the Nobushi) as sign of "disorientation".
Disorientation will only go away once you leave the smoke, after which your stamina will refill based on your exhaustion recovery.

Gensui.Musashi
03-04-2017, 11:33 PM
i would say nerf Nobushi bleed by 99%

Y4chi.OwO
03-04-2017, 11:43 PM
Thank god somone says that thanks all your suggestion are right i think the nobushi need more fast guard change, beacuse right now its impossible to handle

MOSS-Burningup
03-04-2017, 11:45 PM
Her defense and damage neither one are that good I have fun with her zone attack but that's only because I play Dominion I imagine it must be pretty useless in Duels.

Her stance is mediocre at best because it's a stamina hog so it's most definitely inferior to all block guard turtle meta stance.



i would say nerf Nobushi bleed by 99%

You want to nerf one of the lowest damage characters in the game? Nice. You've obviously never played her. She is weak and takes 20 years to kill a Warlord or one of the turtle classes.

Elzziwelzzif
03-04-2017, 11:49 PM
i would say nerf Nobushi bleed by 99%

Thank you for not reading the topic.
It has been clear as day that ones you saw the topic "Nobushi discussion/ suggestion" your first thought was "lets complain about the bleed and not contribute anything worthwhile".
If you wish to know how i was able to figure out your limited way of thinking... read the topic.

You'll be surprised.

MOSS-Burningup
03-05-2017, 12:06 AM
I can't believe how slow Nobushi feels in a lot of situations defense and offense both. When I get knocked on the ground other classes seem to be able to get in 2 heavies on me but when Nobushi knocks someone to the ground...she's lucky to be able to get one in.

Her blocking and defense definitely sucks I sware her sidestep has to be the worst in the game...she moves like 6 inches and can't avoid anything.

Elzziwelzzif
03-05-2017, 01:09 PM
I can't believe how slow Nobushi feels in a lot of situations defense and offense both. When I get knocked on the ground other classes seem to be able to get in 2 heavies on me but when Nobushi knocks someone to the ground...she's lucky to be able to get one in.

Her blocking and defense definitely sucks I sware her sidestep has to be the worst in the game...she moves like 6 inches and can't avoid anything.

Its hard to determine her side dash range, as (once you locked on) you circle strafe around the target.
As i stated in the first post, i do get the feeling you never get out of range.

Being able to do 2 (or more) dodges before a roll means you can position yourself in a different way compared to the enemy.
2 Dashes: Back > Back = out of enemy range.
2 Dashes: Side > Back = Still in range of long attacks, but besides a dodge you can also create distance.
3 Dashes: Back > Back > Back = a basic reset of positioning.
3 Dashes: Side > Back > Back = option to dodge an attack, as well as get out of their range in a sidewards position.
3 Dashes: Side > Side > Side = (depending on distance between you and the enemy, possible to get beside, or lightly behind the enemy.
4 Dashes: Same as previous ones, but with side dashes the possible option to get behind someone.

The speed between side dashes should be fluent enough to not stand still once you have reached the max range of your first dash before you transition into the second one.
Currently chaining dashes means you have about half a second/ a second between dashes, meaning that enemies have enough time to turn with you before you can initiate your second dash.

How many dashes a Nobushi should be able to do before a roll. Not to sure.
More than one should be a decent start, where as further numbers could be added depending on the current status of their movement range or though passive feats (like the Iron Lungs Passive feat.

Gensui.Musashi
03-05-2017, 01:13 PM
Her defense and damage neither one are that good I have fun with her zone attack but that's only because I play Dominion I imagine it must be pretty useless in Duels.

Her stance is mediocre at best because it's a stamina hog so it's most definitely inferior to all block guard turtle meta stance.




You want to nerf one of the lowest damage characters in the game? Nice. You've obviously never played her. She is weak and takes 20 years to kill a Warlord or one of the turtle classes.



you are joking right? 2 hits and you die because of bleed

DrExtrem
03-05-2017, 01:19 PM
I did not read the entire thread but asking for the buffs you want, is like asking for:

- an even faster upper light attack for the warden,
- an even deadlier shield bash for the conqueror,
- faster attack speed for orochi and kensai lights,
- more dashes for assassins,
- more dmg fir rhe warlord
...


I think you get the idea.

The nobushi gas fast attacks, the hardest hitting heavy strikes (they are fast as well), they already are very mobile and can dot you from nearly every possible angle.

Elzziwelzzif
03-05-2017, 09:02 PM
you are joking right? 2 hits and you die because of bleed

Not to be ironic, but i would love to see that happen.
I have killed people in 2-3 hits on a Nobushi, but the set-up of pretty strict:

You should have the following set-up/ condition:

Gear focused on:

Attack (High)
Revenge mode attack (High)

Combat situation:

Sharpened Blade Feat (Activated)
Be in revenge mode.
Face an assassin type character (low health types)
Enemy should have low Defense rating
Enemy should not be blocking.
Able to hit 2 top heavy attacks.


Get all these conditions Right and you will be able to kill an enemy in two hits.
I'm gear score 98, and most of the above features are a focus of my build, together with Feat cooldown reduction and stuff that boosts revenge gain.
Normal situations (in a gank situation, standing behind the enemy) i need to use 4-5 top heavy hits to take someone down... in a gank situation.

Applying Sharpened Blade takes a few seconds, which means you can't do it in the middle of a fight (unless you face idiots).
Neither will you have revenge ready to go unless you get ganked, which makes it impossible to apply the Sharpened blade buff.
So, in the few situations you know you will be ganked within the next 5-10 seconds, you can apply Sharpened blade... get ganked... use revange... knock everyone down... use a zone attack, followed by a top heavy attack... then yes you can kill a player in 2 hits. (If their defense isn't to high, but then again... zone attack is 2 hits to begin with).


In general the "buffs" i ask for is for movement and escaping.
Damage and bleed will go down.
(and with the removal of the bleed you will stop those stupid "I poked you 10 times, now i have to run away for 20 seconds so you can bleed to death" fights.

Banicks
03-05-2017, 09:04 PM
i would say nerf Nobushi bleed by 99%

But leave Peacekeepers alone, right?