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View Full Version : (Devs please look!) Can we fix this MASSIVE issue with Elimination?



SerArthur-Dayne
03-02-2017, 09:14 PM
Im loving this this game, (apart from connectivity!) but one of my biggest gripes has to be the way 2-3-4 vs 1 is currently set up atm. More specifically the revive system, and the inability to permanently execute players when completely outnumbered, undermines the skill involved in even bothering to fight a 4v1.I think the combat system is actually really good, and what I like is that its skill based, but I feel right now its a broken system in one regard.

The problem

Revive speed is acceptable when theres more than one player on each side, but when it comes down to a 1 vs 3-4, its mechanically impossible to stop the larger team from just revive training constantly. Even when guarding the body! I feel this strips a huge chunk of depth out of the game, as it just created a huge skill ceiling that cant ever be passed.

Showcasing the issue & Evidence

Please watch this short clip to understand what im talking about, as I will draw talking points & examples from it. (Skip to 1:25 to see the start of the 1v4)


https://youtu.be/rJEY8CaeKI8

At exactly 2:01 in this video, I have just killed 2 of the 4 players, and am now attempting to finish off the raider ASAP, in order to be left in a 1v1 against the knight. After using zone attack and stunning both ennemies for a brief moment Im trying my quickest to rush at the raider and finish him off. But due to the game enforcing a few seconds delay before you can sprint from a fight, it makes it impossible to get to him. I eventually start sprinting and get GB'd but within 1.5 seconds the player has been revived, and within 7 seconds all enemies are back on their feet with full health. Through this video this happens 6-7 times!

At 2:59 I parry two enemies to the floor and cant punish them because I have to scare off the Valkyrie from reviving the new enemy I killed, but right after doing that I block the very next attack and quickly try to guard the body directly after yet the enemy is already revived and at full health. AGAIN at 3:38 its the exact same thing.

Possible Solutions

Trying to think of some way that this could be fixed! Please comment on which number/idea you like (if any) or if you dont, or think its fine as is, feel free to disagree.


When a team is down to their LAST player: Revives could be disabled for the team that has 2-3-4 players, but they would not be disabled for the one solo guy fighting that larger group. But...If that solo guy then picks up a teammate, then everyone can revive again including the enemy team.

Similar idea to above except (and the IDEA I would go with): When a team is down to their last player, the enemy teams revive speed is drastically increased by a multiple of 8x or so. So there is at least some time to parry off some attacks and guard the bodies. (basically just increasing their revive time only when fighting 1v 3-4, but if I was to then revive someone on my team, revive times would go back to normal for everyone)

Revived players have significantly reduced health.

Maybe executions could render the player invincible untill the animation has finished? (Although this could make it tough on some heroes who are much harder to perform executions with)


Anyway thanks for reading. Please comment or bump this if you feel its important so it gets seen and possibly considered by the devs. Thanks for reading! Deus Vult!

Kharneth88
03-02-2017, 09:22 PM
Git gud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmFABPyFm18

RenfieldX
03-02-2017, 09:30 PM
When your team is breaking and you're down 2 or 3 vs 1, it's supposed to be hard to win. Some executions are faster than others, so it's a good idea to look at your available ones and use your fastest one. I've seen people pull off a win when they were down 3-1, but it took skill and creativity. We don't need to artificially prolong a match so that the losing team has more chance to win.

Munktor
03-02-2017, 09:33 PM
Correct, the team with more people alive is at an advantage.

Who'd have thunk!?

SerArthur-Dayne
03-02-2017, 09:48 PM
Git gud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmFABPyFm18



Nice clip. But the people you fought were terrible! Half the time they werent even attacking you, just standing around! @ 1:28 you had one enemy in front that hadnt attacked you for 53 whole seconds!!! Nobushi didnt even bother either... That peacekeeper watched you execute someone within 3 feet of them, and didnt even attempt to attack...Cmon, youre kidding yourself if you think this is indicative of how the other 99.99% of 4v1 fights go down.

They literally didnt block any of your attacks. They basically fought you 1v1 except for the first 25 seconds. Some of them ran off around the map for seconds or minutes at a time. Pretty sure Nobushi was letting you fight and trying not to attack you. NONE of them even attempted to GB you or hit you with unblockables/bashes. No specials were used on you. Your hero is one of the fastest in the game, and one of the few that could sidestep/reach revives in time.

Again its a really great clip, but if you fought people even half as good as you, or people that kept the pressure on you, you wouldnt reach them in time, you would stand virtually zero chance.

SerArthur-Dayne
03-02-2017, 09:50 PM
Correct, the team with more people alive is at an advantage.

Who'd have thunk!?

Not saying they dont, shouldnt have an advantage. They have an advantage because theres 4 of them vs 1. But having the biggest advangtage in the game being constant revives, where there is no possible counter to it, or no way to improve isnt a good mechanic in a game that prides itself on a deep combat system.

Munktor
03-02-2017, 10:11 PM
Not saying they dont, shouldnt have an advantage. They have an advantage because theres 4 of them vs 1. But having the biggest advangtage in the game being constant revives, where there is no possible counter to it, or no way to improve isnt a good mechanic in a game that prides itself on a deep combat system.

I disagree, because you got yourself into that situation.

The combat system is very deep. You're in a losing scenario at that point. You coming out of it and winning somehow would be spectacular.

You don't want to be in that scenario though in general. That's the point.

Just like you don't want to be on your own 1 yard line in football, or down 20 points in the 4th quarter with only 2 mins on the clock.

If you had just as easy of a time securing a revive in a 1v4 as a 4v1 the game would never end really lol.

Mance_Raider
03-02-2017, 10:12 PM
Yeah, I think the last thing we need is more revives. There is a reason the game is designed this way. Games might never end if you could constantly just revive people. Its a part of the game dude.

I do agree that revived players need much less health. Full health revives are completely stupid.

SerArthur-Dayne
03-02-2017, 10:17 PM
Yeah, I think the last thing we need is more revives. There is a reason the game is designed this way. Games might never end if you could constantly just revive people. Its a part of the game dude.

I do agree that revived players need much less health. Full health revives are completely stupid.

Sorry, im misunderstanding what you mean, or you have misunderstood me?

Im not advocating for MORE revives at all, pretty much the opposite.

SerArthur-Dayne
03-02-2017, 10:33 PM
I disagree, because you got yourself into that situation.

The combat system is very deep. You're in a losing scenario at that point. You coming out of it and winning somehow would be spectacular.

You don't want to be in that scenario though in general. That's the point.

Just like you don't want to be on your own 1 yard line in football, or down 20 points in the 4th quarter with only 2 mins on the clock.

If you had just as easy of a time securing a revive in a 1v4 as a 4v1 the game would never end really lol.

I did get myself into that position sure. Im also not arguing that the combat system isnt deep, because I think it is and I love it! Im just saying that the is no possible counter or even slight chance (in my opinion) of winning (even though I believe it should still be incredibly hard).

Just a hypothetical here: Lets say I fought 100% flawless in the video, to the point it looked like I was using some sort of cheating parry/ dodge whatever cheat. Even then, I would argue that its still 100% impossible to win simply because you cant reach people just spamming revive in between blocks.

Its not that I want it easier, I just want some way, or some counter in place so theres a way to win against this revive spam, even if its incredibly hard.

@3:01 in the video, im trying my best to guard this body, but because I blocked just one attack, that meant the other person got revived despite trying to rush there directly after. Im just wondering, If you were critiquing (or anyone here) how I could have stopped that revive, please speculate or tell me where I went wrong, or what window of opportunity I missed.

My gripe is that right now, it relies on player skill up to a certain point... and then after that it almost entirely relies on luck. Your not really winning any more, you are just relying on your enemies to make tons of mistakes so you can win.

SerArthur-Dayne
03-03-2017, 01:34 AM
Anyone got any better ideas or tweaks?

UbiNoty
03-03-2017, 01:59 AM
Hi SerArthur-Dayne! Thank you for the time and thought you put into your post and feedback. I will pass along your suggestions to the team for further consideration.

SerArthur-Dayne
03-03-2017, 02:06 AM
Awesome! Thanks for taking it into consideration.

Allyrion8
03-03-2017, 02:29 AM
Honestly I'd prefer if revives weren't even a thing in Elimination.

DesignerHuman
03-03-2017, 05:14 AM
Not trying to be dismissive here, but in this video, their constant revive spam is the only counter to your constant revenge spam. How much health and stamina did revenge buy you in that situation? Why should the winning team be punished so severely for beating your teammates that they have to face a monster to finish?

ThePrincePipi
03-03-2017, 05:50 AM
Not trying to be dismissive here, but in this video, their constant revive spam is the only counter to your constant revenge spam. How much health and stamina did revenge buy you in that situation? Why should the winning team be punished so severely for beating your teammates that they have to face a monster to finish?

I mean experienced players never have trouble ganking, just cheese guardbreak and moves like lawbringer's longarm and revenge is no problem

Dukester321
03-03-2017, 06:07 AM
Im loving this this game, (apart from connectivity!) but one of my biggest gripes has to be the way 2-3-4 vs 1 is currently set up atm. More specifically the revive system, and the inability to permanently execute players when completely outnumbered, undermines the skill involved in even bothering to fight a 4v1.I think the combat system is actually really good, and what I like is that its skill based, but I feel right now its a broken system in one regard.

The problem

Revive speed is acceptable when theres more than one player on each side, but when it comes down to a 1 vs 3-4, its mechanically impossible to stop the larger team from just revive training constantly. Even when guarding the body! I feel this strips a huge chunk of depth out of the game, as it just created a huge skill ceiling that cant ever be passed.

Showcasing the issue & Evidence

Please watch this short clip to understand what im talking about, as I will draw talking points & examples from it. (Skip to 1:25 to see the start of the 1v4)


https://youtu.be/rJEY8CaeKI8

At exactly 2:01 in this video, I have just killed 2 of the 4 players, and am now attempting to finish off the raider ASAP, in order to be left in a 1v1 against the knight. After using zone attack and stunning both ennemies for a brief moment Im trying my quickest to rush at the raider and finish him off. But due to the game enforcing a few seconds delay before you can sprint from a fight, it makes it impossible to get to him. I eventually start sprinting and get GB'd but within 1.5 seconds the player has been revived, and within 7 seconds all enemies are back on their feet with full health. Through this video this happens 6-7 times!

At 2:59 I parry two enemies to the floor and cant punish them because I have to scare off the Valkyrie from reviving the new enemy I killed, but right after doing that I block the very next attack and quickly try to guard the body directly after yet the enemy is already revived and at full health. AGAIN at 3:38 its the exact same thing.

Possible Solutions

Trying to think of some way that this could be fixed! Please comment on which number/idea you like (if any) or if you dont, or think its fine as is, feel free to disagree.


When a team is down to their LAST player: Revives could be disabled for the team that has 2-3-4 players, but they would not be disabled for the one solo guy fighting that larger group. But...If that solo guy then picks up a teammate, then everyone can revive again including the enemy team.

Similar idea to above except (and the IDEA I would go with): When a team is down to their last player, the enemy teams revive speed is drastically increased by a multiple of 8x or so. So there is at least some time to parry off some attacks and guard the bodies. (basically just increasing their revive time only when fighting 1v 3-4, but if I was to then revive someone on my team, revive times would go back to normal for everyone)

Revived players have significantly reduced health.

Maybe executions could render the player invincible untill the animation has finished? (Although this could make it tough on some heroes who are much harder to perform executions with)


Anyway thanks for reading. Please comment or bump this if you feel its important so it gets seen and possibly considered by the devs. Thanks for reading! Deus Vult!




ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME DUDE!!????

If anything at all you just proved how ****ing unbalanced that ****ing revenge build is in this game. How the hell did you last more than 30 seconds is beyond me. Ok you're clearly skilled, but you also have to give some credit to the auto block that goes on when youre getting ganked. But seriously what you really need to thank is the equal amount of REVENGES to the revives that just happened there.

How can you even think its logical to come in here and bich about getting killed after lasting 2 mins fighting 4 warriors. Revenge seriously needs a nerf. I'm sick of almost killing someone just to have them come back with that ***in bs. They need to cap it at 2 max or something and that's it.

EDIT: I counted 5 ***in revenges.. I might even have missed one.. not even counting the buffs which are fair game. but take away 5-6 revenges and you'd be dead 10 mins earlier. Like any real fight should be. So you want them to nerf revives (a super fun element of the game) but youre ok with the overpower-ness of the REVENGE system you just displayed. smh I guess you're just not seeing how youre being a hypocrite.

SerArthur-Dayne
03-03-2017, 07:11 AM
ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME DUDE!!????

If anything at all you just proved how ****ing unbalanced that ****ing revenge build is in this game. How the hell did you last more than 30 seconds is beyond me. Ok you're clearly skilled, but you also have to give some credit to the auto block that goes on when youre getting ganked. But seriously what you really need to thank is the equal amount of REVENGES to the revives that just happened there.

How can you even think its logical to come in here and bich about getting killed after lasting 2 mins fighting 4 warriors. Revenge seriously needs a nerf. I'm sick of almost killing someone just to have them come back with that ***in bs. They need to cap it at 2 max or something and that's it.

EDIT: I counted 5 ***in revenges.. I might even have missed one.. not even counting the buffs which are fair game. but take away 5-6 revenges and you'd be dead 10 mins earlier. Like any real fight should be. So you want them to nerf revives (a super fun element of the game) but youre ok with the overpower-ness of the REVENGE system you just displayed. smh I guess you're just not seeing how youre being a hypocrite.

Ill try reply to you a bit calmer, because you seem cut. Your also arguing as if you have taken this personally. Its an open discussion, as I said in my OP.

you also have to give some credit to the auto block that goes on when youre getting ganked: I dont know what your talking about here? You have to aim in the direction to block. Also I managed to parry off attackers a lot which gives more revenge (I think). There is nothing "auto-blocking" their attacks. I managed to get a lot of parries/ blocks in. I managed to steal 2 shield powerups from under their nose which was there mistake, used a banner, and used 4 health kits, and half the time I had a pixel of health and barely escaped.

Also, Ive said in another thread ive made, that they should tone down revenge, they should remove the auto parry activation on revenge & also increase friendly fire DRASTICALLY. In order to make it more skill based. But in this post im simply talking about how bad the revive mechanic is. Therotically this could have gone on for 10- 20-100 more kills with no possible way for me too win.Maybe revenge isnt fair on the 4 people trying to gank me, but having NO CHANCE to stop endless full health revives is unfair on me too. At what point do you think its acceptable for me to win a 1v4 allowing revenge mode? 4 kills... 5? 6? 7? more? Never am I rite? I think you never win 1v2-3-4's so you want to make sure others suffer the same fate. If im wrong in my assumption, please post your K/D so we can see if you just want to knock others down a peg.

Also, I have literally never had an issue fighting against the revenge mechanic. If someone is using revenge, GB them and hit them, or wait it out if needs be, throw them off a ledge or just keep bashing them around. The WHOLE point is to give the person in a 1v4 some sort of help and a chance untill the numbers are thinned out at which point it should even out.

but take away 5-6 revenges and you'd be dead 10 mins earlier. Like any real fight should be: Im sure reviving 7 people from death to full health with a bandaid in 1.3 seconds is OK despite I didnt die till after this, but revenge mode is unrealistic! What about those enemies having absolutely no problem just smashing axes and swords through each other no problem. smh I guess you're just not seeing how youre being a hypocrite realism dosent define how a game should be balanced.

I think BOTH revenge & revives need some major tweaking, but this thread is showcasing how bad the revive mechanic is. Cheers.