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Bearcat99
03-22-2004, 09:36 PM
OK..... Now it is getting annoying. I think there are some definite issues with the AI. I was in a QM...51s vs 109s & 190s 8 on 8. I had one kill allready and after dancing around with a 109 for a tad I managd to get on his six when he broke off me for another target and I came around.... The next thing I know there are red tracers coming from my left and behind me also targeting the same plane... I go external to see whats up and at that exact moment I collide with another P-51.. not only that but there are 5.....FIVE other P-51s all converging on the same target in addition to the one I collide with and me. I mean.. they were CLOSE together. When I did my flyby all five of them zoomed past the camera almost simultaneously.. vooom...vooom ...vooom... voom... vooooom... while the pieces of my pane and the other AI plane were still falling to the ground. I like the aggressiv e AI... but ... they seem a little too aggressive... almost illogically aggresive. Maybe its me... anybody else see this?

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Bearcat99
03-22-2004, 09:36 PM
OK..... Now it is getting annoying. I think there are some definite issues with the AI. I was in a QM...51s vs 109s & 190s 8 on 8. I had one kill allready and after dancing around with a 109 for a tad I managd to get on his six when he broke off me for another target and I came around.... The next thing I know there are red tracers coming from my left and behind me also targeting the same plane... I go external to see whats up and at that exact moment I collide with another P-51.. not only that but there are 5.....FIVE other P-51s all converging on the same target in addition to the one I collide with and me. I mean.. they were CLOSE together. When I did my flyby all five of them zoomed past the camera almost simultaneously.. vooom...vooom ...vooom... voom... vooooom... while the pieces of my pane and the other AI plane were still falling to the ground. I like the aggressiv e AI... but ... they seem a little too aggressive... almost illogically aggresive. Maybe its me... anybody else see this?

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
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E_Temperament
03-22-2004, 09:53 PM
Oleg might have modeled "traitor behaviour" in the AI routines, and your side defected and instead of opening fire on your aircraft they just kamikazied you, Naughty Ai http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
03-22-2004, 10:06 PM
I've never seen 5 friendlies go after the same target unless there was no other targets in the area.

In general, the AI is bloody smart now, although its ability to loose speed very quickly seems a bit overdone. No pilot online can loose speed like that anyways...

I'm enjoying my offline battles alot...the AI is very challenging. Aces are amazing and Veterans are quite good. I'm impressed with the advacement I've seen the AI go through. They even try and avoid collisions now...not always succeeding, but then how often do you see a human pilot online collide with the ground or another player. It DOES happen.

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RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Bearcat99
03-22-2004, 10:43 PM
Nope there were other bandits.. it just freaked me out. Maybe he has modeled human erro into the sim.. wow.. yeah maybe thats it... human error AIHE... seriously..... H@ll the sim does everything else so well.... Ill hang in there and see.. I still enjoy it.. I guess Ill just have to be even more aware of whats going on around me.

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PzKpfw
03-22-2004, 10:55 PM
I've seen it, as I posted before I was flying my Ta 152H camp I downed a DB, engine on fire ppl bailing etc, it was going straight in, (and yes their were other DBs flying around), my 3 AI wingers all dove after the doomed DB fireing on it, it crashed, they all flew into the ground behind it. I got 1 kill & lost 3 wingman to get it it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

I was flying my G6 camp today when I was on a P-39 I had it smokeing and a fire had started when all the sudden, I see tracers going by and then holes in my windscreen etc, and I'm heavily wounded.

So I pause & go to external & their are no less then 4 109s behind me all fireing on my P-39, with 3 P-39s chaseing them. Before I attacked that P-39 I was alone, the minute I had it smokeing every German plane in 2 klicks showed up http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.


Regards, John Waters

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Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

------
"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".

Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

609IAP_Recon
03-23-2004, 05:04 AM
try using veteran skill level. see if that helps at all

Salute!

JG50_Recon

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----
http://www.thepassionofthechrist.com

Lt.Davis
03-23-2004, 05:36 AM
In 1.22 i have at least 2~4 kills in offline mission. Now if i'm lucky http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif i can have only 1 kill which using all my ammo to down him until the message 'enemy aircraft destroy' then i'll stop shooting and look back to my friendly wingman and say http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif "That's mine! You see! That's mine ha..ha..ha.ha.ha!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Speed is the KEY.

Bearcat99
03-23-2004, 07:30 AM
Well this is good to know.. I thought it was just me.

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SeaFireLIV
03-23-2004, 07:41 AM
TRy using the `Break` order for your squad. I`ve been trying it today after some one else mentioned (can`t remember who he was or I`d give him the credit).
I ended up with 3 kills wheras normally it would have been 1! Everytime I saw a friendly diving for the enemy plane that I`d shot up and was going down I`d order, `BREAK!` They`d break off and the bogey would crash or I`d get another shot at him!

I even stole a kill by using this! lol!

It`s like saying , "Behind you!" Classic!

SeaFireLIV...

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`The whole of this unfortunate business has been the result of pride and prejudice....`

Fillmore
03-23-2004, 09:49 AM
I have recently been putting alot of time in offline dynamic campaign, and I am reminded of some serious AI issues, one of which is absolutely the most immersion-killing thing in the sim and MUST be fixed for BoB.

The dogpile/pack of wolves mentality of the AI. This totally kills the game, especially with a lot of planes in the air (come to think of it I will turn down AirIntensity just to help with this problem). Here is the scenerio. Eight 109s escort 9 Stukas. Two groups of 3 I-16s approach from 2 o'clock low, one group a bit behind the other.

What happens- all 109s attack the first group and ignore the second group. When there is only 1 I-16 left in the first group there will be seven 109s (all but me) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif chasing it while the second group of I-16s proceeds to destroy every single Stuka http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

What should happen- first group of 4 109s engages first group of 3 I-16s, second group of 109s engages second group of I-16s. It would be nice for higher skill levels to break it down even further (one rotte per enemy, or one rotte engages while other covers, many nice variations possible).

Similar situations arise when extraneous planes cross paths. A recent example is we were escorting He111s and ran across an enemy group of bombers with a couple escorts. I can understand engaging their escorts, but every single one of our escorts completely abondoned our bombers and chased the enemy bombers going in the opposite direction http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif Also, if one small group of enemies is encountered all escorts will abondon the bombers and chase the two or three enemy planes to the deck leaving the bombers unprotected. Some time later the bombers will arrive at the target area and encounter a large number of enemy fighters, while all their escorts are 20 kilometers away, all eight of them chasing a single enemy plane on the deck http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

What should happen- If a small group is encountered then half our escorts should engage and the rest stay with the bombers, planes on escort mission should not engage planes that are no threat to the bombers they are escorting.

Maybe very poorly led pilots in planes without radios can make excuses for flying like a pack of dogs, but with radios or any kind of leadership/discipline/training this should not be possible.

This pack-of-dogs flying style is completely immersion-killing, makes flying in scenerios with more than 4 fighters feel completely stupid/unreal (even with 4 it can feel stupid, but with 8 it is just totally unreal/******ed) and must be fixed for BoB that's for sure. I would encourage 1C:Maddox to make every effort to write some kind of all-new reworked AI patch for FB if it can at all be done with this sim.

The next big problem is that of suicidal incompetence which falls into two related categories.

-inability to ditch. ok, you know your engine has completely lost power, yet you keep trying to fly and make no effort at a controlled attempt at safely ditching, so you end up flying into trees, or hitting the ground with such force that your plane explodes.

-failure to bail out. ok, you know your engine is smoking black and will catch fire soon, but do you bail out? No, you wait till engine catches fire, which is often too late. Bomber has only one engine left and controls are damaged, but do you bail out? No, you continue to try to fly, even though the plane is no longer capable of it and eventually crash into the ground.

What should happen- If you lose power you need to try to get to friendly territory if possible, and you need to find a clear area to make a controlled ditch. If your plane is unflyable, or is in a dangerous situation (like black smoke from engine) you need to bail out immediately. If elevators or aelerons are unusable you must try to get over friendly territory and bail out (or just bail out now), If vertical stabilizer is completely gone you must bail out.

Lt.Davis
03-24-2004, 09:16 AM
Another problem!

When i was flying IL2 at begining of the war, during the mission i was chase by a 109. I press tab&gt;help, instead the escort come and help me my squadron (IL2) come and help.... This make no sence because this suppose to be escort fighter job. And all of them are busy with chasing a 109???

So it end up every mission i have to ditch at border!! So far i have abandon at least 6~7 IL2 at the border. (No wonder the number of IL2 production are so huge 31,500++ during the whole WW2)

Speed is the KEY.

PzKpfw
03-24-2004, 09:19 AM
The break order prolly would help cept I am not the FL I'm a lowly Lt (just got promoted).

Another aspect of the AI I dont care for is when you get a bombing mission. We get our SC 250s hooked up, take off, and 5 mins from target the escort; see's an lone Pe-2, the FL and all AI drop their bombs & go after the Pe-2.

Which meant our 20mm cannon were useless against the T-34s, and our landser komraden got over run etc.


I have no problem with AI releaseing their bombs when under attack, but thre mission priority was anti-armour & this should take precidence, unless under direct fighter attack.


Regards, John Waters

---------
Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

------
"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".

Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

Shardana
03-25-2004, 03:11 AM
I second all Fillmore said (and Bearcat99 also), and hope Oleg & crew will take his suggestions into account.
I want to add another very important thing/issue: AI always, ALWAYS, see you, no matter if you come from the sun or you are into the clouds... this also should be fixed in BoB...