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Earl_Lemongrab
03-01-2017, 08:25 PM
What is going on with the hate against Warden?

Itīs my main and it hurts getting called out a "***got" and "another op warden" just because I play this class. It feels like all those people just canīt live with the fact that their "extrem cool assassin charakters" are getting beaten by a dude with a sword...

People be like "upper light and area attack are op". Nope they are not, Upper one is extrem predictable and the area attack just like oroshis but without a fake trigger up.


Give me your opinions.

I'm getting tilted by this sh*t

Apaolo_
03-01-2017, 08:27 PM
Because you get an ezmode vortex that's hard to avoid and is totally safe for you to spam?

AveImperator85
03-01-2017, 08:32 PM
Because you get an ezmode vortex that's hard to avoid and is totally safe for you to spam?

Judging by your avatar, I'm gonna guess you play Peacekeeper. You don't get a voice in balance issues, scrub.

Apaolo_
03-01-2017, 08:34 PM
Judging by your avatar, I'm gonna guess you play Peacekeeper. You don't get a voice in balance issues, scrub.

That's where your wrong kiddo.

Earl_Lemongrab
03-01-2017, 08:39 PM
If you talk about that Shoulderbash chain. It is easy to avoid. If you get killed by it it's your own fault in ANY way...

AveImperator85
03-01-2017, 08:41 PM
That's where your wrong kiddo.

I'm probably older than you, but sure, ok. Also, that "ezmode vortex" you're on about is easy to avoid if you're halfway good. It's a little thing called sidestep and it counters almost every unblockable in the game. For everything else, there's MasterCa...sorry, Parry.

Apaolo_
03-01-2017, 08:43 PM
I'm probably older than you, but sure, ok. Also, that "ezmode vortex" you're on about is easy to avoid if you're halfway good. It's a little thing called sidestep and it counters almost every unblockable in the game. For everything else, there's MasterCa...sorry, Parry.

Sure you can sidestep it but he can just spam it again. Or you can backstep and you can just hold down the charge for a longer range. It's easy and cheesy.

Exaffect
03-01-2017, 08:44 PM
If you talk about that Shoulderbash chain. It is easy to avoid. If you get killed by it it's your own fault in ANY way...

So basically your response to people's feedback and criticisms is "get gud".

Why did you even ask for people's opinions?

Pain-Seeker
03-01-2017, 08:48 PM
These ppl are forgeting that shoulder bash can be canceled to GB or feinted as well . So if you try to dodge and they go for GB bum free heavy , if you dont dodge bum free light and the vortex goes on and on

Earl_Lemongrab
03-01-2017, 08:48 PM
I didn't said, "gid gud" and didn't meant to say this with my chosen words. Sorry for this. What I meant to say is that it is no "ez vortex" and can be avoided pretty nicely.

Earl_Lemongrab
03-01-2017, 08:50 PM
Isn't rolling away a possible way to avoid it?

Earl_Lemongrab
03-01-2017, 08:51 PM
But isnīt just rolling away a good way to avoid the chain?

Apaolo_
03-01-2017, 08:51 PM
Isn't rolling away a possible way to avoid it?

Not really because it'll burn our stamina and all you have to do is hold your charge so you get more range to catch up to them and start your vortex all over again.

Earl_Lemongrab
03-01-2017, 08:53 PM
You can do the bash exactly 3 times in a row. If done so, you are out of stamina and an easy target of incoming attacks / Canīt get into another chain that fast. If the chain was used once already, isn't it predictable? A PK for example could just play its dodge/single stab game and win against a Warden without any problems.

suboptiml
03-01-2017, 08:54 PM
Isn't rolling away a possible way to avoid it?

Yes, it's one option.

For some reason people claim this is "running away". Yet when they roll against other classes it's not "running away". It's just another defensive/offensive maneuver. The Warden "vortex" hysteria is getting kind of ridiculous.

Even if they removed the GB option, if someone is struggling to avoid the shoulder barge now, they're still going to be struggling to avoid it after the nerf.

AveImperator85
03-01-2017, 08:54 PM
These ppl are forgeting that shoulder bash can be canceled to GB or feinted as well . So if you try to dodge and they go for GB bum free heavy , if you dont dodge bum free light and the vortex goes on and on

Attacks take priority over GB, though, so if you have a sidestep attack, that's a guaranteed counter to the Warden vortex. Sidestep the shoulderbash, if he cancels for a GB, you're already attacking so his GB will fail.

As for rolling away, yes it burns stamina and I agree that the shoulderbash should cost a little stamina to use. However, holding it down to get longer range to catch up? Fallacy. Even fully charged, it does NOT have that much range to it.

Earl_Lemongrab
03-01-2017, 08:55 PM
If I am 1v1 against a friend (playing as a raider) he got no problems with my bashes. He just dodges backwards or times his attacks in such a way that i would just bash into his weapon.

suboptiml
03-01-2017, 08:58 PM
You can do the bash exactly 3 times in a row. If done so, you are out of stamina and an easy target of incoming attacks / Canīt get into another chain that fast.

This is a key point just about everyone is ignoring. They call it "free". When it is not free whatsoever. Nor endless. And a Warden that just charged into close melee range and is now without stam is as vulnerable as the other classes that don't enjoy high maneuverability when they do so.

Gemini-Iceland
03-01-2017, 09:01 PM
What is going on with the hate against Warden?

Itīs my main and it hurts getting called out a "***got" and "another op warden" just because I play this class. It feels like all those people just canīt live with the fact that their "extrem cool assassin charakters" are getting beaten by a dude with a sword...

People be like "upper light and area attack are op". Nope they are not, Upper one is extrem predictable and the area attack just like oroshis but without a fake trigger up.


Give me your opinions.

I'm getting tilted by this sh*t

Warden is broken mate. Put yourself in the shoes of others. If a warden charges you, the only defense you have is to dodge, but then he instant grabs you for a free heavy, if you don't dodge you take double light attacks, rinse and repeat. This is obviously broken. You can guess but its a 50/50 and you gain usually nothing (or less then the warden) if you guess right but loose 1 health bar when you are wrong.

Pain-Seeker
03-01-2017, 09:01 PM
Attacks take priority over GB, though, so if you have a sidestep attack, that's a guaranteed counter to the Warden vortex. Sidestep the shoulderbash, if he cancels for a GB, you're already attacking so his GB will fail.

As for rolling away, yes it burns stamina and I agree that the shoulderbash should cost a little stamina to use. However, holding it down to get longer range to catch up? Fallacy. Even fully charged, it does NOT have that much range to it.

As i said a more skilled players with warden can feint the shoulder bash so if you go and side attk you get parried , if you roll out and by any chance you get out of stamina its almost impossible to get out of vortex . Also the bash can be canceled to GB so fast that i get caught in dodging animation before i get to start my attk . Also i dont see how attks take priority . You get a GB and go light instead of heavy you can continue your vortex or go heavy and feint the second attk and you have another parry for yourself . There are just too many possibilities with no risk to them

Itsaku
03-01-2017, 09:04 PM
You can't dodge a shoulder bash against a good Warden (good at shoulder bash at least) because as soon as he sees you're dodging he'll GB cancel and you will be grabbed before you can start your attack. This happens even to assassins.

That said, you counter shoulder bash with light attacks anyway, not dodges. Warden is considered OP because he has the second fastest zone attack in the game, his top light attacks are EXTREMELY fast (I think they're the fastest in the game? I'd have to go check to be sure though), and he has (again pretty sure but not 100%) the fastest stance change in the game. Add that on to his fairly good kit of shoulder bash vortex (which is totally counterable) and his top light counter (lol that thing does so much damage I've killed an Orochi in three hits because he dared try to top attack me) and you have a pretty damn OP character.

ParadigmFringe
03-01-2017, 09:07 PM
I'm probably older than you, but sure, ok. Also, that "ezmode vortex" you're on about is easy to avoid if you're halfway good. It's a little thing called sidestep and it counters almost every unblockable in the game. For everything else, there's MasterCa...sorry, Parry. okay./.. you're full of crap guy. it's okay if you're self-deluded, but don't go blatantly lying to people. shoulder bash can be sidestepped and the INSTANT a warden recognizes the sidestep, they cancel it into a GB, and... oh yeah, they're the only class in the game that can turn an advance into a gb(which just happens to reset their centering on a sidestepping character.

jesus... Wardens aren't just broken... the people who play them are apparently delusional. they ACTUALLY think they are skilled playing as a character who can continue an assault for a longer duration than any other character.

AveImperator85
03-01-2017, 09:08 PM
As i said a more skilled players with warden can feint the shoulder bash so if you go and side attk you get parried , if you roll out and by any chance you get out of stamina its almost impossible to get out of vortex . Also the bash can be canceled to GB so fast that i get caught in dodging animation before i get to start my attk . Also i dont see how attks take priority . You get a GB and go light instead of heavy you can continue your vortex or go heavy and feint the second attk and you have another parry for yourself . There are just too many possibilities with no risk to them

I wouldn't say that's "no risk" to the Warden. The Warden has to read or anticipate your movements just as much as you do his. If he's able to outplay you with shoulderbash/GB/feint+parry, he's just outplaying you. Don't punish skilled players for being better players, that's VERY different from being uncounterable. There ARE counters, and there are counters to those counters and so on and so forth. That's how any competitive game works.

What I mean by attacks taking priority over GB is if you attempt to GB somebody who's already in an attack animation, the GB fails and you get hit. Ergo, if a Warden goes for the shoulderbash and you sidestep attack, even if he cancels the shoulderbash to go for the GB, you're already in the attack animation, so his GB fails and he gets hit. If he cancels the shoulderbash and goes for the feint+parry...well ****, he's REALLY good. Don't punish him for being good.

AveImperator85
03-01-2017, 09:09 PM
okay./.. you're full of crap guy. it's okay if you're self-deluded, but don't go blatantly lying to people. shoulder bash can be sidestepped and the INSTANT a warden recognizes the sidestep, they cancel it into a GB, and... oh yeah, they're the only class in the game that can turn an advance into a gb(which just happens to reset their centering on a sidestepping character.

jesus... Wardens aren't just broken... the people who play them are apparently delusional. they ACTUALLY think they are skilled playing as a character who can continue an assault for a longer duration than any other character.

I don't play Warden because I suck with him. Nice try, though. Your weak-*** counterargument has already been addressed, so keep your ad hominem attacks to yourself. Either contribute with actual arguments or get out.

Earl_Lemongrab
03-01-2017, 09:10 PM
You can't dodge a shoulder bash against a good Warden (good at shoulder bash at least) because as soon as he sees you're dodging he'll GB cancel and you will be grabbed before you can start your attack. This happens even to assassins.

That said, you counter shoulder bash with light attacks anyway, not dodges. Warden is considered OP because he has the second fastest zone attack in the game, his top light attacks are EXTREMELY fast (I think they're the fastest in the game? I'd have to go check to be sure though), and he has (again pretty sure but not 100%) the fastest stance change in the game. Add that on to his fairly good kit of shoulder bash vortex (which is totally counterable) and his top light counter (lol that thing does so much damage I've killed an Orochi in three hits because he dared try to top attack me) and you have a pretty damn OP character.

On the other hand you are slow in movement. Canīt shine pretty good with dodges, donīt have any bleed dmg, your attacks are predictable (zoneattack extremly, upper light however not so). Your heavy attack feels like it would take hours (not sure if every warrior got the same speed on that tho) and you donīt have any fake indicators like other chars do. Please correct me if i am wong.

Earl_Lemongrab
03-01-2017, 09:14 PM
What if I told you that I use the Shoulderbash really rare but still getting insulted for playing an op class.

Good players with the Valkyrie or Orochi are destroying me really often. Valkyrie more then Orochi but that's a thing of personal skill...

Dry.Fish
03-01-2017, 09:38 PM
One of my favorite classes to fight. A good PK and Warden fight can get real sweaty and I actually find them enjoyable.

Pain-Seeker
03-01-2017, 09:47 PM
I wouldn't say that's "no risk" to the Warden. The Warden has to read or anticipate your movements just as much as you do his. If he's able to outplay you with shoulderbash/GB/feint+parry, he's just outplaying you. Don't punish skilled players for being better players, that's VERY different from being uncounterable. There ARE counters, and there are counters to those counters and so on and so forth. That's how any competitive game works.

What I mean by attacks taking priority over GB is if you attempt to GB somebody who's already in an attack animation, the GB fails and you get hit. Ergo, if a Warden goes for the shoulderbash and you sidestep attack, even if he cancels the shoulderbash to go for the GB, you're already in the attack animation, so his GB fails and he gets hit. If he cancels the shoulderbash and goes for the feint+parry...well ****, he's REALLY good. Don't punish him for being good.
As said by other players in this thread its 50/50 if you wait for GB but he goes for a light attk you are doomed , same the other way . You completly negated my point about dodge+attk cuz you almost never get to start an attk but get caught mid dodge and get guard broken . And yes the one warden i ve encounted was rly good he didnt have to rely on vortex alone but his mind games . I enjoyed that game and lost 2/3 but it was me being out played by a realy skilled player not by someone who abuses the mechanics that are broken. Also warden is extremly easy to play and pull this off . I went to bot lvl 0 and in 5 mins i got the never ending vortex thing almost mastered and was almost as good at feinting the shouldbash and second heavy attk as the previously mentioned player. Ofcourse i know its different when playing against real players but with a LITTLE BIT of practice i would be one of those players that get **** on for playing an OP character. And if you even thinked about saying something like "so why dont you play him ?" . Hes boring and uninteresting and probably getting a nerf soon so i will stick to other most hated character Orochi. Would love to see you reply something like " you play orochi and QQ about warden ? lol git gud "

Earl_Lemongrab
03-01-2017, 09:56 PM
you play orochi and QQ about warden ?


kappa jk

ParadigmFringe
03-01-2017, 09:56 PM
I don't play Warden because I suck with him. Nice try, though. Your weak-*** counterargument has already been addressed, so keep your ad hominem attacks to yourself. Either contribute with actual arguments or get out. either deal with the fact that people have differing opinions or deal with the fact that people have differing opinions (cwhutididther? because i don't actually have to leave or keep anything to myself. you simply HAVE to keep seeing my posts and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. =D )

you're a liar. you play the warden. nobody here believes otherwise with how vehemently you defend their BS. i'll leave my pants unzipped so you can start sucking whenever you're ready.

Earl_Lemongrab
03-01-2017, 10:04 PM
you're a liar. you play the warden. nobody here believes otherwise with how vehemently you defend their BS. i'll leave my pants unzipped so you can start sucking whenever you're ready.

Not sure if troll or...

Mod. please ban this insulting guy from this conversation.