PDA

View Full Version : CR.42 falco vs I-153



mike_espo
04-29-2004, 06:29 PM
I just played online and got my **** whooped by the I-153. TB low alt fight. I had no chance.

My question is: where is the historical evidence/data that suggests the I-153 can out turn the Falco at low alt? If I try to out turn, I spin...... this is unhistorical.

I then flew the I-153. No such problem. It was historicaly an unstable aircraft and I would think it would have the same spin issues....

anybody have data or info regarding this?

thanks

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

mike_espo
04-29-2004, 06:29 PM
I just played online and got my **** whooped by the I-153. TB low alt fight. I had no chance.

My question is: where is the historical evidence/data that suggests the I-153 can out turn the Falco at low alt? If I try to out turn, I spin...... this is unhistorical.

I then flew the I-153. No such problem. It was historicaly an unstable aircraft and I would think it would have the same spin issues....

anybody have data or info regarding this?

thanks

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

crazyivan1970
04-29-2004, 07:14 PM
Man has a question...unless you can provide mature answer, butt off http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

LEXX_Luthor
04-29-2004, 07:18 PM
mike:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My question is: where is the historical evidence/data that suggests the I-153 can out turn the Falco at low alt? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We can start with combat weights and power/mass ratio. I believe I~153 beats CR~42 both ways. Some numbers would be nice.


mike:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If I try to out turn, I spin...... this is unhistorical.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If you try to out turn lighter and more powerful I~153 then you stall. Stalling happens to every plane that stalls if turned too tight.

The FB's CR~42 Spinning Issue has nothing to do with I~153.



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

mike_espo
04-29-2004, 07:24 PM
I know Lexx. I was just thinking that the Falco would be less prone to spinning than the I-153. I heard that the CR.42 spin will not be fixed in the patch. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif I was looking for some justification for the spin.

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
04-29-2004, 07:42 PM
Where did you hear about CR~42 spin not being fixed in Patch? I did not know this. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

I would imagine the problem is in the CR.42 game code and not I~153 code. mmm I really dunno!!


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

mike_espo
04-29-2004, 07:57 PM
I heard it on the forum..... Oleg said the Falco's spin is due to "inferior/inefficient design"... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
04-29-2004, 08:04 PM
lol

If I recall, The CR.42 Spin mostly happens when you stall during a turn, other times it mushes out like at the top of a grab...er zoom climb, or is that zoom climb after a dive, or is a grab a "sustained zoom climb" lol this is a new concept indeed.

Can you fly without stalling? That's what I do. I think that's what most real pilots did too.



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

mike_espo
04-29-2004, 08:10 PM
hmmmm. Against most opponents its not an issue. I can outturn anything. Notable exceptions are the gladiator and I-153 below 2000m. Against these, the Falco don't have a chance unless poorly flown. Maybe the Pll too.... Whenever I encountered these I either get killed outright, or spin out while trying to out turn them..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
04-29-2004, 08:19 PM
You spinned. That means you stalled first. Don't stall.

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Gunner_361st
04-29-2004, 08:50 PM
I've flown all the biplanes in FB considerably and the CR-42 is the least agile of them all. The I-153 has nearly 150 more horsepower at low altitudes than the CR-42 and I think weighs less, just how much less I don't know off-hand. It's gear also retracts.

You'll also notice the CR-42's stall speed is higher than both the Gladiator's and the I-153. If you want real answers as to why, you should consult someone well-versed in aircraft design and how it affects the airplane.

A friend of mine is a pilot and just looking at the CR-42 said it lookd like it had a high stall speed. I think it has something to do with the awkwardly long fuselage.

Major Gunner of the 361st vFG

http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1087.jpg

LeadSpitter_
04-29-2004, 10:24 PM
perhaps the cr42 is correct and the gladiator i153 and p11 are too manauverable http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/newsig.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
04-29-2004, 10:33 PM
the I-153 will spin & flatspin easy

not as easy as the CR42 but it aint no Gladiator

WUAF_Badsight
04-29-2004, 10:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mike_espo:
I know Lexx. I was just thinking that the Falco would be less prone to spinning than the I-153. I heard that the CR.42 spin will not be fixed in the patch. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif I was looking for some justification for the spin.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i know the CR42 had a higher wing loading than the Gladiator

thats not good for tuning fights

P-11 might turn good but has no power

Chaika seems a little more durable than the Bi-Planes but the P-11 is very durable too

CR42 is faster than Gladiator for sure

accelleration

& level speed

CR42 might have less guns but they hit hard

Dmitri9mm
04-30-2004, 12:53 AM
One month ago I adressed the spinning issue of the CR42 in another thread.
The problem is that it's absolutely impossible to stall the CR42 without going into a spin, therefore it happens all the time.
On the other hand, I would be really worried if the CR42 was able to out-turn the I-153. There is little doubt that the Tchaika was the best biplane fighter ever produced. With it's small size and wieght, retractible gear, low drag, it's the perfect T&B fighter, so of course it should be better than the CR42.
The Gladiator however seems to have a problem in being almost impossible to stall. The result is that you can do maneuvers where no one can follow you, regardless that the plane is actually much less maneuverable than the I-153 and is modelled that way in the game.

http://www.gotfuturama.com/Multimedia/FrameGrabs/3ACV19/Grabs/pic00929.jpg
"1947 can kiss my shiny metal..."
First Futurama episode to feature WWII fighters: "Roswell that ends well"

BerkshireHunt
04-30-2004, 07:08 AM
I had a look at what William Green has to say about the Fiat CR42 Falco and it seems it had a rather short career. According to Green it was the last biplane fighter to be produced by any of the WW2 combatants (manufactured 1939). Most companies had been designing monoplane fighters since 1936 but for some reason Fiat persevered with the biplane. Its straight line speed was good for a such a machine- 266 mph at 13,000ft- but still slower than contemporary monoplanes (although the CR42B prototype with DB601 engine made 323 mph- tremendous achievement for a biplane).
It was used by the Hungarians for home defence whilst the Regia Aeronautica used it in the Battle of Britain and as a bomber escort over North Africa. But by that time it was obvious to the Italians that the heyday of the biplane had passed and production of the CR42 was terminated in 1942.