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View Full Version : LETTER TO THE DEV TEAM! VERY IMPORTANT!



Kejotikk
05-13-2004, 09:36 AM
I am sorry for making this type of thread but I am desperate.

Dev team, I could almost not believe it was true when I learned of how the campaign in SH3 will be. HOW could you not have learned from the complete and utter failure of SH2?!

It is US, the hardcore subsimmers who will buy your game. NOT the kids looking for arcade games. WE as subsimmers want a game where the world is our hunting grounds, a world that would go on without us.

We do NOT want to feel like we're on a train going along the rails to a predetermined place. We do NOT want a world that is completely empty except in the places we are FORCED to go! Not being allowed to choose our own routes is complete and utter NONSENSE! Not even being able to go out on the bridge during the time our boat goes the way you FORCED us to go is also complete and utter NONSENSE!

It does not matter how good the graphics are, it does not matter how revolutionary the crew management is. What matters is that we have a game that gives us a realistic portrait of the real war where nobody FORCES us to go anywhere!

Of course they had patrol zones, but I have the right to be able to choose to go outside that patrol zone if I wish even if that would mean I would end up before the war tribunal.

You people are RUINING the great potential of this game and if you cannot see that then you people are blind. Completely blind to what happened to SH2 like Hitler was blind to the experiences Napoleon had when invading russia.

When I learned of your terrible decision my heart sank like a merchant after being struck by a torpedo. I actually had some hope for this game for a while, I really didn't think you'd be so blind.

And with this I say goodbye, I doubt anyone in the dev team will even read this and even if they did I doubt they'd listen. I just had to get this grave disappointment out of my system.

*goes back to playing Aces of the Deep*

[This message was edited by Kejotikk on Thu May 13 2004 at 08:53 AM.]

Kejotikk
05-13-2004, 09:36 AM
I am sorry for making this type of thread but I am desperate.

Dev team, I could almost not believe it was true when I learned of how the campaign in SH3 will be. HOW could you not have learned from the complete and utter failure of SH2?!

It is US, the hardcore subsimmers who will buy your game. NOT the kids looking for arcade games. WE as subsimmers want a game where the world is our hunting grounds, a world that would go on without us.

We do NOT want to feel like we're on a train going along the rails to a predetermined place. We do NOT want a world that is completely empty except in the places we are FORCED to go! Not being allowed to choose our own routes is complete and utter NONSENSE! Not even being able to go out on the bridge during the time our boat goes the way you FORCED us to go is also complete and utter NONSENSE!

It does not matter how good the graphics are, it does not matter how revolutionary the crew management is. What matters is that we have a game that gives us a realistic portrait of the real war where nobody FORCES us to go anywhere!

Of course they had patrol zones, but I have the right to be able to choose to go outside that patrol zone if I wish even if that would mean I would end up before the war tribunal.

You people are RUINING the great potential of this game and if you cannot see that then you people are blind. Completely blind to what happened to SH2 like Hitler was blind to the experiences Napoleon had when invading russia.

When I learned of your terrible decision my heart sank like a merchant after being struck by a torpedo. I actually had some hope for this game for a while, I really didn't think you'd be so blind.

And with this I say goodbye, I doubt anyone in the dev team will even read this and even if they did I doubt they'd listen. I just had to get this grave disappointment out of my system.

*goes back to playing Aces of the Deep*

[This message was edited by Kejotikk on Thu May 13 2004 at 08:53 AM.]

Drebbel
05-13-2004, 10:52 AM
The description (at subsim) of the campaign system got me worried as well.

I can't believe they will not include an AOD like dynamic campaign.


Drebbel

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SailorSteve
05-13-2004, 11:26 AM
Third worried vote.

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finchOU
05-13-2004, 11:34 AM
Are you sure you cant choose your own route? that would definitly seem odd, because it limits your freedom as a Captain.....hell, maybe you want to travel in that fog bank or storm to avoid a dd or aircraft! well, maybe that ramdom encounter is a farse, and maybe the weather is not that good yet......maybe.

misha1967
05-13-2004, 11:37 AM
Well, I guess that means this one goes out the window as far as I'm concerned as well.

What's the definition of insanity?

Repeating the same failed action over and over again, expecting different results.

Shan_Hackett
05-13-2004, 11:48 AM
Not being able to "Travel" to ones patrol zone, albiet in map mode, at time excelleration..?

Thats me out...another acrade "Sim" ,
just dont need another one of thoses...

If this is the planned course, then Ubi, has just lost the hardcore fanbase, myself included.

What is the point of all the hard work gone into crew management, when u can only impliment it in "Action" secequences?
No lazing around, on the "Voyage", or drill practicing, filling out the ships log, etc!

The so called "Dynamic" campaign structure while not perfect, and somewhat disapointing, is still over and obave all but AoD. i can live with that, but to repeat myself;

U cant even look outside, on the brigde while transiting to ur assigned patrol zone?
Talk about shooting urself in the foot!!!

I will keep popping in, and see if things change, but im arraid, until this asspect is clarified/rectified, i will no long participate in this forum.

Regards, dissapointely,

Shan Hackett.

[This message was edited by Shan_Hackett on Thu May 13 2004 at 11:17 AM.]

Bruno_Lotse
05-13-2004, 01:57 PM
I am sticking to my SH2+Subsim.com mods.
There I can go up to my Rudergang whenever I feel like a gulp or two of salty ocean air.
Only Allied DDs or planes can dictate me whether to stay inside or up on Rudergang - not some dev team guys who are lazy to do their coding work.

Bruno Lotse
U45

CB..
05-13-2004, 05:02 PM
yup sitting on the bridge listening to the waves whilst munching my afternoon snack, smoking a ciggerette and or drinking a refreshing beverage is in fact half the reason i play naval sims!!! remove that and i may as well go and play Quake and be done with it..

mog_tr
05-13-2004, 05:27 PM
If you automatically come to 1x when a ship is sighted en route to the patrol area, how hard could it be to let the player interrupt the journey whenever he felt like it? I really don't understand this deliberate alienation of a chunk of the market for absolutely no gain.

Heracles87
05-13-2004, 06:54 PM
I agree with the original poster. If the devs are too lazy to go with the truly, dynamic campaign of AOD, then I'll wait until the game ends up in the "under $10 bin" at the local software store. That shouldn't take more than a few months.

HeibgesU999
05-13-2004, 06:58 PM
I might just go back to sh1, and the 3 mods it takes me to join Pacific Thunder.

prucha
05-13-2004, 07:38 PM
Agreed 100%.

I truly hope the dev team does indeed read this; they will disaffect many by handling the campaign game in this manner. Like most, I was a hardcore AOD fan and was very excited when I began reading the initial promises regarding SHII. When after one delay after another they made it known that the campaign mode was canned, I said forget it - there was no way I was going to buy the game for new game prices. I went back to AOD and was perfectly content in doing so. Sure, SHII represented a quantum leap forward in graphics and sound, but in terms of gameplay I looked at it as a major, majpr step backward.

I played the original SH and had some fun with it, but I never thought it came close to AOD - and the major reason for that was of course the fact that you were unable to transit from base to patrol area.

A scripted transit is hardly any better than no transit at all. The developers promise some random targets of opportunity along the way (one would assume they would also intend to create some random threats), but this is of little consolation. The program should not dictate the course the skipper plots to his patrol area or the game speed at which transit is accomplished. If I want to run at 1x from Brest to the AK that's my business (for the record, I have a job and have never done this). If I want to run with decks awash through the Bay of Biscay to try even the odds with the ever-present threat from the air, it should be my prerogative.

To echo what others have said: Who among us hasn't practiced crash dives enroute, or ordered gunnery or torpedo drills? Who hasn't conducted daily trial dives? Who hasn't played a hunch and deviated from course for a few hours or a day, or dove for a hydrophone check? Who hasn't dove for a few hours on Christmas? Who hasn't set the time compression down so they could fill out their KTB? Who hasn't opted to run submerged during storms or choking fog? Of course, if you can't go on the bridge to soak up the games beautiful graphics and survey the world about you, how will you even know what the weather is like?!

Sure, this all sounds a little cracked - to the unitiated - but to the hardcore who will represent the bulk of the people who will buy this game, these are perfectly normal activites, and this is a perfectly straightforward and earnest request - don't shoot yourself in the foot again, Ubi. I own other Ubi games, and I know you guys do so many things so well, so I'd hate to think you'll drop the ball again on this one very, very important feature.

The ideal campaign mode would permit the skipper to plot his own course to his patrol grid and run at whatever time compression he pleases, with the ability to dive and access the bridge at any time along the way. Random threats (increasing as the war progresses, naturally) and targets of opportunity along the way should be a given. For additional realism, the boat could be randomly ordered enroute to participate in a convoy battle or lay in wait in a picket line across a newly anticipated route. Infrequent weather duty or minelaying missions would satisfy the most hardcore, but would likely isolate a casual gamer. I recall an early promise from SHII to include historical convoy sailings in the campaign mode, and although this certainly sounds delicious, from a research point of view it's surely asking too much.

I've monitored the SHII forums off and on since it was released and have been intrigued by the mods made by the more inventive members of the community. I came **this close** to buying it as the price inched down to the bargain bin, when I saw that SHIII was in development. Again, a huge sense of anticipation; I'd have no problem spending $49-$59 if it's everything it should be - only this time I hope it's not accompanied by the same disappointment brought by SHII.

Best Regards,
Dave

Redwine
05-13-2004, 07:50 PM
I think so the problem are not developers..........

Producers must to take the decision about the characteristics of final product.......

It is not the first time Ubi do not reach our spectations..............

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Kejotikk
05-13-2004, 11:06 PM
Thank you for the replies guys, you prove that this isn't just the ramblings of a single person but that I'm conveying the thoughts and feelings of the entire community.

tycho4511
05-14-2004, 01:14 AM
One more hardcore simmer longing for a dynamic campaign. I'm not as elouqent or as informed as some of the other posters on here, but I can only hope the producers realize their target market. 14 year olds will pass on this no matter what. They have too many other options.

Kapitan_Nereus
05-14-2004, 01:39 AM
Damn right!
If we can't do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING then SHIII will fail, simple as that.
Hardcore simmers, the ONLY group of people who will buy SHIII at a higher price than $10 bucks, will not buy it.
Without a AOD dynamic campaign/lots of detail the devs might as well stop develpoment and just go home
its a waste of resources http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

Until a statement is issued that says otherwise i'd just like to say to the dev team:

Go home you lazy b@stards! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

"The Hunt is on..."

Afreaka
05-14-2004, 01:53 AM
I second that to some degree
Dynamic Campaign = Driving your own sports car http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif
Static scenario/campaign bla bla bla = passenger on a ski bus to nowhere(norway). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Captain America
05-14-2004, 02:58 AM
I just found out how the campaign will be handled and my heart dropped. I had to register with this forum just because of this. Words can not describe my disappointment. I thought that UBI would redeem themselves after what they did with SH2. This is very unfortunate and a sad day for us "subsimmers". I am a man of my word and I will NOT buy this game when it is released. In all honesty I probably would buy it when it reaches the bargain bin...but NEVER at its release price. I could go on but my feelings have been well represented by the other posts in this thread. I know that I am only one person but if all of us stick together and not purchase this game when it is released then maybe UBI($$$) will finally get the message and we will all have the subsim we desire in SH4.

aroosendaal
05-14-2004, 03:01 AM
A subgame wihout a dynamic campaign will not be game i would like to buy

Bratking
05-14-2004, 03:16 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Am I the only one getting fed up with this whining? Seriously? I bet you guys won't touch another naval game for months after testing SHIII, even if it don't have the dynamic campaign of your dreams. Look, enjoy SHIII for what it is, probably the most detailed WW2 naval sim to this date.

I don't care less if I can't go everywhere in the world or sail in real-time to my patrol area. It's a game for crying out loud! I want something to do when playing SHIII. Watching empty seas for hours and hours with virtual seagulls as my only company is not my idea of fun.

CB..
Why don't you rent a boat and go fishing? I promise you the water looks more realistic in real-life and it's better to smoke outside http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

If a dynamic campaign is the only thing you care about then I wouldn't worry so much. In time, someone will most likely release a dynamic campaign mod for SHIII so you guys can spend your entire life watching your monitor telling your grandchildren about your adventures at sea when you where young. GO OUTSIDE ! you guys are scaring me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

negus1
05-14-2004, 04:05 AM
what a disappointment!!!

if it is a simulation it would also have to simulate the boring impression of an empty see. i mean many u-boats were going for weeks without seeing one ship! think of bleichrodt's "torpedotraeger" U 109 which came back from two missions without sinking one ship!

think of "das boot" which was everything but not an action movie.

by the way many boats (esp. type IX) did not get fixed patrol zones (except such general description like southern atlantic).

even worse: leaving the port will be shown in a small movie!!! so in this we go back to AOD but not in creating a dynamic atlantic war environment???

this all means cherry picking in a very bad way: they pick from AOD and SHII what was easiest to program (and worst to play), add a bit of action graphic and throw it to the kiddies who think that a subsim will bring as much action as an egoshooter.

well done!

okay, i am out of this.

"Negus 1 an alle kleinen Brüder, wir greifen an! Kameraden, dicht aufschließen zum Sturmangriff! Die Begleitgruppe aufpassen auf Indianer. Wir machen Pauke, Pauke; nur die Ruhe, Kameraden, alles mir nach!"
Maj. Dahl JG 300

CB..
05-14-2004, 04:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bratking:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif
CB..
Why don't you rent a boat and go fishing? I promise you the water looks more realistic in real-life and it's better to smoke outside http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that'd certainly be one way to give up smoking ..no all said and done SH3 is going to be an absolutely fantastic sim/game....which obviously can't compare to the real thing...in some respects is not as good as fishing...or indeed smoking whilst fishing,...probably won't impress your grandchildren...and doesn't give you "a life" ....so there we have it

creuler
05-14-2004, 05:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> posted Fri May 14 2004 03:05
what a disappointment

Josef_Murnau
05-14-2004, 05:13 AM
Yes Bratking: You are the only one! Or should I say Oleg? Stil yoking? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Me,too, I agree with the disapointment of the other posters. Yesterday I couldn't login, so I posted a thread in the subsimforum. Maybe Drebbel posted it for me somewhere here,if not: Here are my comments.



Dear developers
This are bad, bad news from E3!

Please, please, please give us the freedom to decide ourselves, if we want to look at empty sea or not. Don't force us to this grid map travel!
My reasons:

1. I want a simulation. A simulation which simulates U-boat live: Long weeks, when an U-boat encountered nothing, is a part of it. I'm no arcade player. I appreciate this slow paced gamingexperience.
While playing, that's the time to take a cup of tea. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
The patrol should start, when I leave the port, not when I reach the designed patrol zone. Why do you ignore the hundreds of posts, who have already claimed, that they want an AODlike campaign? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
I really don't understand, why you differentiate the march to the designed patrolzone and marching in the patrolzone. My personel thrill in playing subsims is: Survive the war. I want to survive because of my own decisions. And than it makes a difference if I run half of the time on rails.
And that disturbed me also in SHI, but in SHI they had at least one good reason for this. The war didn't happen in front of the bases. Marches into the patrolzone would have been boring, because you knew you wouldn't encounter anything. If the war happend closer, the game didn't beam you into the patrolzone, but you started in front of the harbour, with 100% fuel. I remember a mission, I think from Manila, with buoys in the harbourbay!
The atlantic theatre is different. The war happend just in front of the port. Specialy when you have been deployed to the french bases. "Das Boot" for example plays 1941, not in the late years of the war. Remember the end?
In the later years of the war just traversing the biscay was http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif nearly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif as dangerous as penetrating a convoy. For me as a player a challenge, I want to see simulated.



2. Influence to gameplay.
Maybe I missunderstood Neal, but it sounds like the course is automatically set. That would reduce tactical options and within gameplay. For example:

- Fuel is low. Do I take the short way through shallow waters or the longer through deep waters?
- Or if I the sight gets poor, I may would prefer to dive. To avoid plane attacks or to detect enemie shipping acoustically.
- What about speedsettings? Maybe I want to travel slow as possible to save fuel. And on my way back maybe I havn't any torpedos left, but stil half of my fuel. Surely I want to run as fast as possible through the biscaya.


I play a subsim for the feeling of beeing there. So I want to be the master of my actions in every part of the patrol.
For impatient players add a good timeacceleration, which slows to one, when a ship, aircraft, ..., is spottet or heard. Or (Very importent!!!) the sight is reduced.

It seems that you think: No ship in sight= boring game= we don't need it.
Thats wrong. I'm writing screenplays. If you want to emphasize a sad scene, you have to contrast it with a funny scene. This means according to the game:
The slow paced "No ship in sight" situation contrasts with the action which starts, when a convoy is detected.

If you want to make these parts of the patrol more interesting, think of the radio traffic.
You did such a good work on graphics, crew managment, 3D Interieur with functionable instruments, this webside.
But: Please, please, please!
Don't force us to this grid map travel.

Greetings
Josef Murnau

Parsec
05-14-2004, 05:22 AM
@Josef

VERY GOOD POSTING!!!!

agreed 100%

Bratking
05-14-2004, 05:27 AM
Soo.. pause the game, or take a screenshot that you can watch for a few weeks. When you are ready, unpause the game for some action. Enough contrast? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Willey
05-14-2004, 07:22 AM
I think the idea behind this "travel map" system is not that bad. What's bad about it is the restriction of your freedom. That system, just for time compression, with the ability to interrupt it anytime and set a new course, would be far better than what I heard about it (preset route). I really want them to rework it. They've 2 options:

1. Release it as planned and add an open!, dynamic campaign as an addond later
2. Delay it to make a open, dynamic campaign for the release version.

What I really want ot have, which needs an open environment:

- I like to be in the U-Boot-Bunker at the beginning of my mission. I want to see those guys on my deck and all those ppl working in the pen, watching you leave the harbor etc. I want to do it myself - the cinematic was an old solution to show scenes that could not be renered in realtime 3D grahpics, which is possible nowadays. And if this is possible, I can play it myself, leaving and entering the harbor.

- I just want to sail around. Watching certain locations, harbors, driving into fjords and so on. I want to be able to make some test / training dives where my crew gets experience in doing so (I don't want to have it exaggerated so my crew would be top after 50 dives in the first patrol, there should be a limit in "leveling their skills up"). I want to drive just some to enjoy the breathtaking atmosphere SH3 will have.

- I want to plot my course myself. If I'm ordered to patrol in a certain area and I won't do so, it's my problem and I might not get a boat or rank/medals for award. Fact is that you shouldn't always get a direct patrol zone (Drumbeat, Monsoon boats etc) I want to decide where I drive along. Do I take the longer route north of England, burning more of my Diesel, or sailing longer (crew morale!!!), or will I try the Channel? Maybe I even try intercepting some convoys in front of some harbours, just wait some 50-100 miles off London in my Type II dugout canoe, because I know there will be some ships passing right here. Or I take a tour though the waters between Great Britain and Ireland (In Aces I very often met single ships and convoys there, going to or from Liverpool).

- I don't want to be awaken just when my lookouts made out dangers / targets. I want to be able to take a "look" via the hydrophones. I could make out convoys at 50+nm depending on the weather in Aces. If I just use my eyes, chances to find something are quite lower.

- Diving isn't just for evasion and hiding. One thing is storm. It's better to drive submerged here. Also if my fuel is short, I can enlarge my range by driving slowly and using the E-engines until my batteries are empty and just use the diesels to recharge the accumulators. By doing so, I could drive from the middle of the Atlantic to Wilhelmshaven in Aces with a fuel amout that wouldn't be enough for a move from Kiel to Wilhelmshaven at full speed. Not to forget the "airplane heavy skies" later in the war... I'd also hate it to be interrupted hundreds of times because of planes... I'd just drive submerged, recharging the batteries by using my diesels and my snorkel to avoid planes.

That really makes a very big difference. If the route is just scripted, I can't take all these decisions into account. Driving U-Boats means waiting, waiting and waiting. And time compression up to 4096x (max of Aces; SH2 had 2048x max) or 8192x is enough to shorten the wait. I want to do all the rest myself. As I wrote above, the basic idea behind the planned system is not that bad. It probably enables much higher time compression than former systems. But I want to be able to take control at any time.

Russian_Captain
05-14-2004, 07:51 AM
Kejotikk and MANY others agreed with you 100%!
First of all people, sorry for my English, most of time im just reading this forum, but last news about campaing mode in SH3, forced me to regster here. Just like most of you IM VERY DISSAPOINTED, and have no any idea why dev team stays away to our asks about such simple thing as AOD type dinamic campaign. Maybe it is a UBI produsers desision to do like that, and maybe we can together create a letter from the community to the managment of the publisher, i think its all we can do.

[This message was edited by Russian_Captain on Fri May 14 2004 at 07:08 AM.]

negus1
05-14-2004, 08:12 AM
willey, i think the addon solution will not work out. a dynamic environment has to be done in the game engine itself. an addon will never change the game engine (too expensive).

therefore i think that it is even now already to late because if they really plan to publish it in autumn the game engine must be almost completed. so it seems we have to wait for SH IV (and i will do instead of buying SH III).

"Negus 1 an alle kleinen Brüder, wir greifen an! Kameraden, dicht aufschließen zum Sturmangriff! Die Begleitgruppe aufpassen auf Indianer. Wir machen Pauke, Pauke; nur die Ruhe, Kameraden, alles mir nach!"
Maj. Dahl JG 300

Kejotikk
05-14-2004, 08:38 AM
Bratking, you sir, are an idiot. And luckily you're also a very small minority in this community.

You need to learn the difference between whining and constructive criticism. We are pointing out exactly what it is we're unhappy about and not just "wah wah everything sucks but I can't tell you why"

And SH3 may be a game, but it's a SIMULATION game. It's supposed to simulate the u-boat war and that means it should be as realistic as possible.

SH3 could have photorealistic graphics and it wouldn't matter without a good campaign that you can play over and over again without ever getting bored. Do you think AOD is still played today because of its graphics?

Now go somewhere else to do your trolling and stay away from this thread.

SOF_Timber
05-14-2004, 08:40 AM
I'm going to have to agree with Bratking...the object of the game is to have fun. Floating around for days (I'm sure you guys want "real time") waiting for some "action" sounds more boring than my life is already. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Ubi in business to make money? If the developers had to depend on what the "real sub simmers" want they would starve to death. Tell me who, other than the "hardcore", would want to buy a game like you guys are suggesting? Kids?...no way. Senior citizens?...they would fall asleep before they see their first seagull. The question is how do you get people to buy a sub sim?...by getting to the action and start having fun.

Ubi said there will be a editer to modify the game...thats for you guys. Have fun making the game into the sim of your dreams.

For me I can't wait to buy the game.

negus1
05-14-2004, 08:52 AM
SOF, i do not know whether you are right.

on the one hand the dev. team tries to add more atmoshpere by adding a crew management (which is not very action orientated and can be boring as well). on the other hand they take away the dynamic environment which can create a lot of atmosphere.

if i would have the choise i would not insist in a crew management (what surprising things can happen there?) although it is of course nice to see people in a boat. a dynamic environment is much more exciting not only for hardcore simmers. also action simmers would like to play in an environment where you can get into deeper and deeper and find new and exciting things. another thread mentioned already falcon 4.0 whose dynamic environment is outstanding even now.

so what benefit do we have if they add reality in crew management but take away "enemy management" (in a dynamic environment).

i mean i want to fight against the enemy and not against my crew (which is only AI anyway).

"Negus 1 an alle kleinen Brüder, wir greifen an! Kameraden, dicht aufschließen zum Sturmangriff! Die Begleitgruppe aufpassen auf Indianer. Wir machen Pauke, Pauke; nur die Ruhe, Kameraden, alles mir nach!"
Maj. Dahl JG 300

Redwine
05-14-2004, 09:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bratking:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Am I the only one getting fed up with this whining? Seriously? I bet you guys won't touch another naval game for months after testing SHIII, even if it don't have the dynamic campaign of your dreams. Look, enjoy SHIII for what it is, probably the most detailed WW2 naval sim to this date.

I don't care less if I can't go everywhere in the world or sail in real-time to my patrol area. It's a game for crying out loud! I want something to do when playing SHIII. Watching empty seas for hours and hours with virtual seagulls as my only company is not my idea of fun.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are really wrong......... it is because you dont like subsims really...........



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bratking:

CB..
Why don't you rent a boat and go fishing? I promise you the water looks more realistic in real-life and it's better to smoke outside http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry Mr Bratking but you words are loss of respect and consideration to CB, one of the persons who had done a big job working uninteresting to improve the subsim simulation........ and fixing the Game producer's errors to give all us the subsimmers a better sub simulation........... you are really a bad-mannered person........



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bratking:

If a dynamic campaign is the only thing you care about then I wouldn't worry so much. In time, someone will most likely release a dynamic campaign mod for SHIII so you guys can spend your entire life watching your monitor telling your grandchildren about your adventures at sea when you where young. GO OUTSIDE ! you guys are scaring me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is another confimation your bad manners......... Who are you to fire out us from here ?


Regards, Red.

______________________________
.
http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/pietraroja/imagenes/firmas/EscudoU552b.jpg
.
The Ancient History of the Submarine
"Subgenesis" (http://www.iespana.es/Subgenesis/subgenesis/sg00.htm)

Manual TDC
"HTDC Tutorial" (http://www.iespana.es/rotteufel/htdc_tutorial/a_start.htm)
.

misha1967
05-14-2004, 09:28 AM
Listen, I'm no stranger to the wonders of business and economics, but could we cut out the "catering to the kids" nonsense?

I'm not at all sure that those kids that we seemingly need to destroy a sim to please even exist.

If they do, they sure didn't account for themselves very well when SHII was launched, now did they? I mean, I went down that tired road as well back before the launch of that silly piece of waste bits. Through forums, through personal mail back and forth with the dev team at Ultimation, you name it.

And I'm sitting here with a bad case of Deja Vu hearing the same old tired arguments again. Listen: We TOLD Ultimation and Ubi that they'd crash if they went ahead with their pigheaded refusal to listen to their prospective buyers and guess what? We were right.

And we'll be right again.

But hey, go ahead. Keep repeating the same mistake over and over again, I'm sure that something new and wonderful will happen this time.

Whatever.

I'm not going there again. It didn't help any the last time, so why bother? If Ubi and the new team want to listen, they'll listen. If they don't, they won't, and I'll see their latest binary miscarriage in the bargain bin.

CDragon
05-14-2004, 09:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willey:
I think the idea behind this "travel map" system is not that bad. What's bad about it is the restriction of your freedom. That system, just for time compression, with the ability to interrupt it anytime and set a new course, would be far better than what I heard about it (preset route). I really want them to rework it. They've 2 options:

1. Release it as planned and add an open!, dynamic campaign as an addond later
2. Delay it to make a open, dynamic campaign for the release version.

What I really want ot have, which needs an open environment:

- I like to be in the U-Boot-Bunker at the beginning of my mission. I want to see those guys on my deck and all those ppl working in the pen, watching you leave the harbor etc. I want to do it myself - the cinematic was an old solution to show scenes that could not be renered in realtime 3D grahpics, which is possible nowadays. And if this is possible, I can play it myself, leaving and entering the harbor.

- I just want to sail around. Watching certain locations, harbors, driving into fjords and so on. I want to be able to make some test / training dives where my crew gets experience in doing so (I don't want to have it exaggerated so my crew would be top after 50 dives in the first patrol, there should be a limit in "leveling their skills up"). I want to drive just some to enjoy the breathtaking atmosphere SH3 will have.

- I want to plot my course myself. If I'm ordered to patrol in a certain area and I won't do so, it's my problem and I might not get a boat or rank/medals for award. Fact is that you shouldn't always get a direct patrol zone (Drumbeat, Monsoon boats etc) I want to decide where I drive along. Do I take the longer route north of England, burning more of my Diesel, or sailing longer (crew morale!!!), or will I try the Channel? Maybe I even try intercepting some convoys in front of some harbours, just wait some 50-100 miles off London in my Type II dugout canoe, because I know there will be some ships passing right here. Or I take a tour though the waters between Great Britain and Ireland (In Aces I very often met single ships and convoys there, going to or from Liverpool).

- I don't want to be awaken just when my lookouts made out dangers / targets. I want to be able to take a "look" via the hydrophones. I could make out convoys at 50+nm depending on the weather in Aces. If I just use my eyes, chances to find something are quite lower.

- Diving isn't just for evasion and hiding. One thing is storm. It's better to drive submerged here. Also if my fuel is short, I can enlarge my range by driving slowly and using the E-engines until my batteries are empty and just use the diesels to recharge the accumulators. By doing so, I could drive from the middle of the Atlantic to Wilhelmshaven in Aces with a fuel amout that wouldn't be enough for a move from Kiel to Wilhelmshaven at full speed. Not to forget the "airplane heavy skies" later in the war... I'd also hate it to be interrupted hundreds of times because of planes... I'd just drive submerged, recharging the batteries by using my diesels and my snorkel to avoid planes.

That really makes a very big difference. If the route is just scripted, I can't take all these decisions into account. Driving U-Boats means waiting, waiting and waiting. And time compression up to 4096x (max of Aces; SH2 had 2048x max) or 8192x is enough to shorten the wait. I want to do all the rest myself. As I wrote above, the basic _idea_ behind the planned system is not that bad. It probably enables much higher time compression than former systems. But I want to be able to take control at any time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Willey, I agree.

And for the record, I, too, am disappointed that an open campaign is not included (at this point) and that your style of play is being limited.

donw48
05-14-2004, 10:34 AM
well Ubi...add me to your list of someone that simply registered here to post on this subject..

What the HECK are you thinking??? If this Dev crew is the same that had anything to do with SHII...then maybe this does make sense...You are obviously witholding dynamic campaigns on purpose...for who knows what reasons...

Not only do you refuse to post a reply here explaining why you won't do it...

Ohh never mind....and sorry for not being "constructive...

Like misha1967 said....whats the point....

you dont get it...
you never have...
you never will...
take your pick

Bottom line...here's ONE dedicated sum-simmer that will NOT part with hard earned wages for this product...PERIOD

zumalacarregui
05-14-2004, 11:55 AM
Fearsteable sorry for my terrific englisch but i usually don´t use this practical language http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Second i can´t believe ubi soft make the same mistake again like in sh2.When i reed the notice about that i was totally disapointed and very angry.It´s incredible they cut the freedom of the simers to travel all around in the larges see.It´s a nonsense in a uboat simulation.Worst! it´s a crime.When you see the high level grafics and the feeling of this sim in multiple little details and after that you see the type of campaign and transitions to the patrol zones they are planed you think the dev team is crazy!
A dinamic non previsible campaign is absolutely esencial for this simulation.They don´t remember the sh2 fiasco?The horrible scripted missions you must repeat again and again?I don´t know if it´s technically too late now for change the campaign sistem(it´s planned to sale on october if i´m not wrong)but if finally they don´t change of idea it was a big big big mistake.
The liberty in a uboat simulation it´s half of the game.Tactically it´s esencial in most of cases to take diferent decisions about the diferent routes you can take for reach an objective.They want to make a call of duty(very good game of course)of submarines with a briliant atmosfere and grafics but a cero level of liberty and most importanr unforeseen.
I finally buy the game for sure because i am a fanatic sub simmer but i am very very sad about this question.Terrible!!!

Bye!

Bratking
05-14-2004, 11:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kejotikk:
Bratking, you sir, are an idiot. And luckily you're also a very small minority in this community...

Now go somewhere else to do your trolling and stay away from this thread.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So many feelings, makes one wonder why that is. Minority my eye. The majority is actually so happy with what SHIII has to offer so they don't feel the need to come here complaining. Bad manners? I'm just a bit concerned actually, I didn't want to offend CB.. or anyone else in here.

Take this scenario for example. If one day you get SHIII in your hand and your rushing to install it and one of your closest friends (assuming you have any) suddenly calls to remind you about his birthday party tonight. What do you do?

A. Ask him what time you should show up
B. Say your sick so you can stay home playing SHIII

Think about this for a minute and ask yourself if you have a healthy attitude towards computergames.

Bad manners http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gifAt least I didn't call anyone here an idiot. Moving on..

I don't mind constructive criticism. I just mind too much of the same criticism over and over again. It must be over 150 posts in this forum regarding the lack of a dynamic campaign in SHIII. Get the scope? That's whining IMHO.

BTW the post about pausing the game was a joke. So.. now you know.

Redwhining:
I don't like subsims? Does this mean I must sell my copies of AODC, SHI, SHII, SC and ERT? Bummer.. I loved those sims/games, especially SC and ERT.

Now I got work to do so I can be with my GF for the rest of this weekend. She's dynamic enough to make me happy. Cheers and happy gaming!

Josef_Murnau
05-14-2004, 12:22 PM
Dear Comrades
Let's keep the church in the village. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

That's what Neil wrote:

"... I inquired about letting the player interrupt the grid map travel session and be able to take the bridge at any time but Tiberius said at this point that is not planned. If you did manage to stop the travel routine, there would be nothing but empty sea anyway... "

Nothing but empty sea:
This means to me, that Tiberius, the chief developer, hasn't fully understood, what most of us appreciate in the AOD Campaign.

But he says, too: At this point.
And this means to me:The last word isn't spoken. See how nicely they look after this site. Every week an update. They make efforts for the community and I'am shure they will recognize how sensible the comnmunity reacts to this specific point.

So lets do, what we allready did. Let's post our opinion. The more, the better! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

Greetings
Josef Murnau

CB..
05-14-2004, 12:36 PM
yes it's that slightly jarring worry that the devs didn't think we'd actually want to stop and look at all those marvelous ocean/weather effects from time to time ,that has me thinking hmmm they aint put the depth in here because they didnt think we'd be standing still long enough to notice...it's a subsim for the "lifestyle" generation perhaps...?

''shudder''' glad i aint got one of those...i kinda prefer life to lifestyle...it don't last for-ever..and yu can't take it back and ask for another even if yur "better half" asks yu to http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

im sure SH3 will be fun tho

Josef_Murnau
05-14-2004, 12:42 PM
Dear SOF and the rest of this community

For me and many others the gameplaystandards of subsims have been set by an old 8MB DOS game. AOD. And it hurts me, that those standards never have been reached since than. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif 8MB! So nobody should tell me, it's to much work to implement a dynamic campaign like in AOD. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif
The problem with the discrepance between your wish for faster action and my slower paced approach is already solved! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
Yes, it is.
By this old DOS game, named AOD:
Single missions for immediate action. Perfect place for historical missions, too. Like the raid of Scapa Flow, or the sinking of the Bismark or...
And if you are in the mood for slower paced gaming experience you play the campaign. And if a player like you starts a campaign. And after a while you think: "Hm. Something should happen now!" Use timeacceleration. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Is there a problem I can't see?

Greetings
Josef Murnau

Josef_Murnau
05-14-2004, 12:43 PM
Oh,oh, oh. I got a new idea! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

You know European Air War? Sorry, I didn't thought about it earlier. Because I only looked at this problem from my point of view.
(Hey Bratking, Look at this) It's even better than timeacceleration: http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

In EAW you can fly every mission in real time (What I always did) and timeaccelerated, but for players like you they had a great feature: You can always jump to the next action. Me, I fly an hour to the next airbattle, and you press a button and you will find yourself a second later on the same place and the battle starts. That feature works with landings and waypoints, too.
For us a slow paced dynamic campaign and for you a feature like this. Everybody could be happy! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif
Thats the best feature to hold both:arcadeplayers and simmers like me.
I remember, I have read that one of the developers is a fan of EAW.
What do you think about this idea?
Greetings
Josef Murnau

misha1967
05-14-2004, 12:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I don't mind constructive criticism. I just mind too much of the same criticism over and over again. It must be over 150 posts in this forum regarding the lack of a dynamic campaign in SHIII. Get the scope? That's whining IMHO.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, it could conceivably also be an indicator that rather a lot of people feel very strongly about it, but what do I know about anything?

They're probably just all unconstructive whiners of which you don't approve.

And hey, just LOOK at that fantastically rendered water film on the periscope! Ohhhh... LOOOK! A shiny SPOON!

Tetrapack
05-14-2004, 12:54 PM
Does I understand it correctly?

Is it done in SH3 like it was in SH1 in which you left the harbour and then immediately reached the patrol area?

Captain America
05-14-2004, 02:04 PM
Bratking (your name suits you well btw),

Judging by your last 2 posts in this thread I can figure out exactly what you are all about.

BRAT wrote:
"Redwhining:
I don't like subsims? Does this mean I must sell my copies of AODC, SHI, SHII, SC and ERT? Bummer.. I loved those sims/games, especially SC and ERT."

I will not dispute that you own these sims but I strongly believe that you lack the true meaning of a "sub-simulator" and are clueless when it comes to the simulation aspect of the game. Which brings me to your other statement:

BRAT wrote:
"If a dynamic campaign is the only thing you care about then I wouldn't worry so much. In time, someone will most likely release a dynamic campaign mod for SHIII so you guys can spend your entire life watching your monitor telling your grandchildren about your adventures at sea when you where young."

Your lack of knowledge is clearly evident. If you are a real sub-simmer then that would mean that you have spent some time @ subsim.com. Obviously you haven't because if you did you would know that making a "dynamic campaign mod" is not as easily as you put it. In fact I am confident when I say that it is close to impossible. If you spent some time @ subsim.com you would have known that the many talented individuals over there have worked so hard to bring SH2 up to standards with the many mods that they have created...but a dynamic campaign is still not possible nor will it ever be. If you knew about programming/modding, which your statement insinuates, then you would know that the only possible way to attempt to make the campaign dynamic would require the source code...something that a developer would not give out. It would take some serious cash to do so and even then there are no guarantees. Till this day UBI will not release the source code of SH2 to these talented individuals and its understandable so. If you had a clue you would also know that CB, Redwine and others that have posted here are those talented individuals and you owe them your respect..that is, if you are a subsimmer not a gamer. There is a difference between a game and a simulation. I do not believe you know the difference. If you did you would understand why this has upset so many hardcore enthusiasts because of the way we operate the uboats with realism. This includes doing crash dives enroute to the patrol area, testing depths and times to get there, etc. It is unrealistic to perform these tasks in the combat zone. I can go on but I wont. In conclusion, I am sure that you do not know the first thing about commanding a uboat in a realistic manner. I bet you couldn't even setup a manual TDC shot if your life depended on it. Hence, your gaming/arcade view of the SH3 and lack of understanding of what a sub simulation should be and lack of understanding why so many of us are disappointed. Please go back to BF1942, I hear they have a sub that you can control to your likeings.

Kejotikk
05-14-2004, 02:14 PM
People, don't even bother to reply to Bratking from now on. He's just a troll.

ramponereren
05-14-2004, 04:10 PM
well the best of luck to you ubi, looks like u are going down the drain again with sh3. i was 13 years when aod came out and i really loved it everything( ok so a dc can become not boring, but a bit uneventful from time 2 time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif ), but then again thats the best sub sim ever, then i played sh 1 a couple of years later witch i thought was quite okay. - small patrol zones, crappy graphic and some other minor issues, still played it some time and enjoyed it, and then ubi and desided to rape the subsims with the biggest **** sim ive ever played namely called sh2.... and dang it looks like they are about to do it again with the smashing and really good looking sh3 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif, the way i see it is like a subsim cant compete with doom3 & halflife2 etc etc... so why the heck make it instant action and "scripted with dynamic elements" thats just a big load of ####, cause we all know what people thats gonna buy sh3 and thats not people playing fps and "action" games. with regards from a ww2 freak.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

HeibgesU999
05-14-2004, 05:29 PM
Because "Bases" in SH2 really only worked 100% correctly with aircraft, a dynamic/random campaign in SH2 was totally impossible.

Unless there is a similiar mechanism in SH3 but that works with warship and merchant contacts, there can be no dynamic campaign sh3 either.

Redwine
05-14-2004, 05:38 PM
Thanks Captain America..........

______________________________
.
http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/pietraroja/imagenes/firmas/EscudoU552b.jpg
.
The Ancient History of the Submarine
"Subgenesis" (http://www.iespana.es/Subgenesis/subgenesis/sg00.htm)

Manual TDC
"HTDC Tutorial" (http://www.iespana.es/rotteufel/htdc_tutorial/a_start.htm)
.

CB..
05-14-2004, 07:47 PM
aye many thanks Capt America and Redwine too for the kind words http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

Access_granted
05-15-2004, 03:23 AM
I fully agree whith Drebbel.

I think it's very important that, as a captain, you can define yourself your route, (close to the coast, or far from the coast....) and yous speed.

Following the route on the map, is not a bad idea, as long as you can interrupt at any moment, if a merchant ship is passing by, or when you are passing Gilbraltar by night, or at any moment you like, just to enjoy the moonschein...

Of course, you should start the mission in the harbor (animated if possible) and not in the opensea at the mission point. If not this is not a simulator anymore.

pzrshrek
05-15-2004, 02:00 PM
I just wanna agree to the exellent original post and author of this thread.

No sh3 for me either...

ViperU48
05-15-2004, 05:24 PM
I agree with the original point and etc.

By implementing a system where one cannot fully decide his/her route to the patrol zone, would most likely have drastic results on the popularity of this game to subsimmers.

I hope the dev team reconsiders this. It may mean more work, but if they make it simular to AOD or SH2, then SH3 could very well be one of the best naval simulators ever made.

Kimirahi
05-15-2004, 07:25 PM
It's pretty simple. No Dynamic campaign, no SH3 for me. This "idea" that missions need to be scripted in order to reach a mass audience is lunacy. How well did that work for SH2? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

You're just never going to sell Silent Hunter to the masses waiting for games like Everquest2 and Doom3. Might be nice to dream, but it ain't gonna happen. Period.

You've already alienated your core audience and the public at large has no interest in subsims to begin with - so who does that leave you with?

Prediction: Bargain bin title, 3 months or less.

Kapitan_Nereus
05-15-2004, 07:48 PM
its not like they read this, they just post their updates here...
if they did read these or subsims boards they would have realise that they've f**ked it up http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

Here i am thinking "Wow, Ubi might make a good game, with some polish on it this time..."
but NO... they make a SH2 graphics mod, call it SH3 and charge for it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

lazy b@stards http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

"The Hunt is on..."

Saetta
05-16-2004, 01:53 AM
No wonder, the usual UBI mess ....

Thomsen9U
05-16-2004, 02:31 AM
Just adding me in in the list of those who want a dynamic campaign.

The only thing I want to add ist the point of economic behaviour, UBI has to take in consideration.

What is your market target?

Arcade gamers which like games like egoshooters or even simulations like the X-wing series?

Or simulation-gamers which like games like AOD,Silent Service, Falcon 3.0 and others?

If your target is group one, I have the feeling that you will fail. A naval simulation (with battleships or u-boats) is something which has not the thrill of steady nerve thrilling action. You will dissapoint your customers for sure, because the action level is too low.

If your target group ist group two you should follow the way AOD showed. Implement elements of strategy and tactic, then you will get your customers.

At the end it is only the decision of UBI which market group they want to attract. The accountants will tell them if they were right.

My private thought is, that if UBI wants to adress group one, they will fail, like they failed before. Group two will be the right market for SH III

Something to say at the end. Take a look at the economic presentation of Ubi at
Finance data (http://corp.ubisoft.com/home.htm)
Yes, they are growing like hell, but their balance shows that they are spending more money than they are earning. Shouldn't they than don't try to make money with SH III?

Mahlzeit

Stefan
U 664
http://sgaertner.bei.t-online.de/henne.jpg

Egan2.0
05-16-2004, 11:03 AM
I guess I'll add my name here too. Shouldn't have been suprised though. UBI really don't have any interest in anything like this. The (Non existant) marketing campaign for AEP confirms this.

The lack of a proper dynamic campaign is bad enough but the lack of basic control to and from the patrol area is stunning. I certainly never saw that one coming.

I would like to say "I bet it turns out brillianty and it will be great. Boy are we gonna feel stupid!" but it won't.

Anyone else worried by the idea of 'Upgrading' your U-boat with special weapons and so on? I hope there are laser guns! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I wonder whether they will relace tonnage with points?

misha1967
05-16-2004, 03:10 PM
Hey, and maybe we can buy upgrades such as turbo torps, extra armor and speed-ups! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Egan2.0
05-16-2004, 03:24 PM
Yes! Speed-ups! Thats what we want! And extra deep-diving so we can go down three miles!

If the ships don't go "BEEP-BOOP" when I sink them I'm taking it back. The end of level bosses better be good and all! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

misha1967
05-16-2004, 03:33 PM
Oh, and when ships sink, I want them to spray coins into the air that I can collect by having my crew members jumping up and down on the deck.

And I want the crew to be made up entirely of kids in weird clothes with huge shoes and immense eyes.

They'd also damn well better make sure to render the waves and weather patterns correctly. Not that I'll be able to see them since I won't be allowed on deck in between action points (hey! Can we have save points too?), but they'd better be there all the same!

Oh, and "kill all enemies" powerups are a MUST! Maybe they can be awarded to us if we succeed in making complicated "stunts" underwater, such as looping around depth charges and picking up ten consecutive bonus coins?

Wow, this is going to be the best SubSim EVER! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SailorSteve
05-16-2004, 05:15 PM
"Power-ups" are nice, but you left out the "Bosses" at the end of each level.

______________________________

Taxes are never levied for the benefit of the taxed.

Bratking
05-16-2004, 06:23 PM
LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Regarding my nick Bratking. It's originated from an internal joke when me and my friends used crazy nicks for our LAN evenings years ago. I can't even remember half of them but Bratwurst was the one I kept for the longest time. When Bratwurst is already taken in a forum I use Bratkorv (korv = sausage in Swedish) or Bratking (to give it a Swedish touch, we still have monarchy here.. sort of) &lt; useful information (not really). Anyhow, using my former nick Bratkorv I was involved in respectable debates with the devs Tesseraction along with Neal Stevens and others to help supporting a game called Enigma: Rising Tide in it's early stages.

A slight touch of irony. During my first posts directed to Tesseraction I was very unhappy with ERT for not being more a simulation. I hated the arcade feeling to it and taking my earlier experiences with sims into calculation the devs had to put up with much anger and negative feedback from me. I was not very popular really, often called flamer, troll and what ever (by other fans). I admit my ways of expressing myself can be provocative sometimes even though I never or rarely use harsh language or attack anyone in person unless I have to defend myself.

I believed my criticism was fair enough so I stand my ground pointing out what could be done to make things better. Most of my posts was regarding gameplay, missions and ideas for the online version to make it more realistic and fun. Not long after I started to get replies from Kelly (EAST) and Blake (Hexabolic) and I think all of the devs embraced my ideas.

After extensive posting (some in Swedish because Blake lived here during a period in his life) I soon posted what I called a "play test" for the offline version. Being more constructive this time and pointing out the real potential of ERT my test was called a review by the devs and I was even asked to translate it into Swedish to help spreading the word. It was from this (review) I was quoted in the retail installation of ERT along with quotes from Neal (Panzer47) and some official gametester at Gamespy. To me this was a great honour and a very nice surprise.

However, due to less time for computer games because of changes in my life I have not been keeping in touch with the subsim community much and I stopped supporting the development of ERT. Not long after the official forum was closed down. I didn't even bother to re-register in the new forum at subsim.som so to many of you here I am a complete stranger (I know this is the official SHIII forum).

I still admire Kelly and the devs at Tesseraction for being so open to ideas from the community to improve something that already is one of the most promising naval games out to this date IMHO (note I said game and not sim). One can only wish more devs take notice in how effective and rewarding a supportive community can be.

This is why I posted in the first place. Although I know many of you have really good ideas on how SHIII could be improved, some of the posts regarding the lack of a dynamic campaign are not very constructive. It's more like a witch hunt really. Claiming you won't buy this game because of this, starting childish polls and calling the devs idiots for not listening to the community is not what I call constructive criticism. If you don't like it, don´t play it but why try to influence others not to buy or support this sim?

Still reading? Oh well..

The bottom line. You really think the scream for a dynamic campaign is SHIII have gone past the devs unnoticed? I don't think so. Will you buy SHIII and enjoy it even though it may not feature a dynamic campaign? Yep you all probably will. Hopefully the SHIII devs will find the time to watch these forums and find the time to read the more constructive posts that possible could change their minds about some details before it is to late. That is IF they manage to put up with all the bull_ You may find that SHIII has more to it then a semi-dynamic campaign and great graphics.

Now I bid you all good night (GMT timezone) // Bratking

Sorry Cpt. America but replying to personal attacks from people thinking they know everything and everyone would be pretty much pointless. I'm sure you are a much better and a more real "sub-simmer" then I ever will be.

[This message was edited by Bratking on Sun May 16 2004 at 06:27 PM.]

CB..
05-16-2004, 06:46 PM
sorry Brat King there wasn't enought action in yur post so i didnt manage to finish it..i tried to find the time excell button but there doesnt seem to be one...could you strip all the interesting details out of it and just condense it down to wham bam thank yu mamm... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

sorry but yu kinda asked for that one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bratking
05-16-2004, 07:19 PM
That's okay CB.. I didn't expect you to. Should I care less about your opinion when you don't even read my posts? Beats me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

CB..
05-16-2004, 09:00 PM
sounds fair...but i was being ironic...it's details like that that get lost in modern gameplay..

sdcruz
05-17-2004, 03:32 AM
Thankyou for a very well written letter. My heart has just been broken after learning that SH3 will not have a dynamic campaign! What does it take these f**king p*icks to create a dynamic campaign - we dont want all the gloss that wears out after 3 games, we want a sim! not a shi**y game. I just wish I could play a sim like AOD, the water coming off the periscope when you raise it - something so small still in my memory after so many years - please dont bother with this game if it is not coming out with a dynamic campaign! i AM sick of this sh*t - second best ****! F**K - just give us what we want! Im not paying sh*t for this !
Sorry for being angry but my blood is boiling - damn have to wait another 10 years for another classic like AOD

Hitman_PAces
05-17-2004, 04:33 AM
Just my two cents to request ( On a civil way ) a dynamic Campaign for SH3 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, and to beg others to avoid the insult. Even the greatest dissapointment can be explained without bad words, so no excuse here for using them.

As for SH3 features, I also like some and don´t like others. I would love to have a dynamic campaign but instead, I don´t like the crew management. Yes, I know it is very good and advanced, and a step towards realism, but in my case I´m the chief of others in real life ( And on a really difficult business ) and have enough with that "morale" administration, so I don´t like going on with it when I´m at home. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

But I reckon that it is just my personal vision, and that the sim must have those features, because they will please many people.

So, re the campaign, please let the dynamic stuff be an option and that´s all. A simple knob with "Start patrols on the war zone: ON/OFF" unders realism options, and another with "Dynamic Campaign: ON/OFF" is enough for that. In AoD it took only 2MB to get that.....

I´m almost sure that UBI, and not the Dev team, forced that style of campaign. So I will buy SH3 and try to help with my support the dev team getting more attention from Ubi.

Cheers

Kejotikk
05-17-2004, 05:17 AM
sdcruz if you're going to post in this thread then please try to keep it civil. I understand that you are disappointed. Heck, we all are.
But that kind of language will only hurt our attempt to reach the dev team.

We will have NO swearing in here, and I hope the moderators can see past the actions of a few and not delete this entire thread.

Bratking, now that's much better. Now you actually seem like a good person. I wish you'd started out this way instead of with those earlier trollish posts.

paxhispanica
05-17-2004, 06:14 AM
This is really great!!!!!!

I think we all live in democracy and all have the right to say ( witn no "bad language" )what we think.
This goes in aid to BRATKING . I´ve played sims since i was a child and i started playing with silent service in a C-64 . I want a dynamic campaign BUT i understand the feelings of Bratking . The game looks very very well and if it hasnt a dynamic campaign then a modder will find a "tool" ( kriegstanz, pacific aces , koralle ,........) to "simulate" this. If Bratking has an opinion , please RESPECT him and calling him a TROLL or IDIOT when he didnt insult anybody, then ........

Kejotikk
05-17-2004, 06:35 AM
You don't have to insult anyone to be a troll. Trolling is when you come to a thread and argue for the sake of arguing.

Calling him an idiot might have been a bit harsh, but his previous posts were equally disrespectful to us calling us whiners and whatnot and I don't want my thread to be turned into a flamewar.

misha1967
05-17-2004, 09:29 AM
Well, people can use any type of language they like, as far as I'm concerned, as long as they realize that my willingness to listen to what they have to say vanishes when they cross the line.

Sdcruz passed that line, left the State and took up residence in a foreign country, as far as I'm concerned.

negus1
05-17-2004, 09:39 AM
let the discussion not get to language issues only. back to the matter!

it seems there are two opinions here:

one opinion demands dynamic campain without compromise.

the other opinion says that lack of dynamic campaign is okay as long everything else is fine.

i say that both radicals are wrong. if you insist in dynamic campaign only you can stick to AOD. if you want graphic enhancement you can stick to SHII (with all the HiRes and Messerwetzer Mods).

however SHIII will be an artificial game without dynamic campaign. even if everything else is realistic you will not have this "being in war" feeling like in AOD or Falcon 4.0.

but even a scripted campaing can be very good. i liked for instance Call of Duty very much. although it is srcipted an linear. but it is very good scripted! and - of course - you can only play it once.

"Negus 1 an alle kleinen Brüder, wir greifen an! Kameraden, dicht aufschließen zum Sturmangriff! Die Begleitgruppe aufpassen auf Indianer. Wir machen Pauke, Pauke; nur die Ruhe, Kameraden, alles mir nach!"
Maj. Dahl JG 300

Egan2.0
05-17-2004, 10:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by negus1:
but even a scripted campaing can be very good. i liked for instance Call of Duty very much. although it is srcipted an linear. but it is very good scripted! and - of course - you can only play it once.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For my money the COD campaign was no more than adequate. A couple of the missions were brilliant but far too many were simply stupid. And your right, it has extremely limited replay value.

The problem is not some people wanting a Dyncam at the expense of everything else and others thinking it will be fine without it as long as other features work. The problem is a feeling that the community are going to get a game which is neither a true simulation nor anything else - a sort of half way house between highly disparate genres.

Nobody is moaning about the game wanting to pull in new fans but rather the game pulling in new fans at the risk of losing those who would continue to buy the franchise in the future; EG: the more hardcore subsim fans.

To me its a bit like a Classical music record label trying to get new people interested in classical music by releasing pop tunes instead. I LIKE classical music..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

CB..
05-17-2004, 11:29 AM
Yup i think were all just a little bit confused by not only SH3 refusing the option of a dynamic old style gameplay campaign but ALL sim manufacturers doing the same thing....so it's kinda become an issue that is beginning to really get on peoples nerves

i'm sick of trying to second guess the games industrys reasons for this ...it's become allmost a political thing simply because the game devs wont explain their reasons for making the choice...i agree with Egan..i dont want a game thats designed to intice folks into buying and enjoying subsims....i want to spend my money on a subsim, i dont want a compilation album i want the full double album gate fold sleeve, fold out book and poster....perhaps if we said no no dont give us a dynamic campiagn there awfull we'd end up with one out of spite...LOL

paxhispanica
05-17-2004, 12:11 PM
First of all , i want a DC but if the game has it but then , for instance, the typeXXI doesnt have the Nibelung or the uboat doesnt have bold then i dont need any DC and i wont play the game anymore.

After all , i want a REAL subsim with great graphics , historically accurate and a dynamic campaign and in this order

i would say that the game hasnt been completed (it´s a pre-alpha stage ((( i think ))) so we must wait and see

urfisch
05-17-2004, 03:06 PM
you all are really right...

a simulation like this really needs a dc!!!

aces of the deep was a very, very nice simulation...the best uboot simulation ever(?!)
and at this game now theres really a lot of potential in it, so you need to make use of it!

ubalmoral
05-17-2004, 04:14 PM
I've enjoyed SH even with the teleportation to the patrol area because I believe that in the Pacific most boats that were lost went down in their patrol areas. The transit to and from home port isn't as important.
It's vastly different with U-boats.
I skipped SHII and stuck to Command Aces of the Deep because of the lack of a campaign in SHII.
It is vital to the FEEL of a U-boat game that the boat be in danger from the moment it leaves the bunker until the crew has concrete over their heads again.
That's the way it was in the North Atlantic. You had to survive the trip to and from your patrol area, let alone the action (if you were lucky enough to find any) in your patrol area.
The Englanders owned the skies and naval hunter-killer groups were a real danger enroute.
I'm hoping for a campaign that's true to the feel of U-boat combat.
Without that, I geuss I'll still be hunting every few years for a computer old enough to keep running CAOD.
Thanks, and good luck with the simulation,
Paul Shell
(alias Kvtkpt W. Gruener, U-64)

HKLE
05-18-2004, 08:44 AM
Hi folks

I'm joining the party with my hopes, that this was not the last word on the dynamic campaign.

Why is it so complicated to do some random event crunching on the way to and from the zone of activity ??? I never understood this ???

Kejotikk
05-18-2004, 12:46 PM
You're not the only one who can't understand what the devs are thinking. It seems they are intent on creating the same kind of arcadey campaign like in SH2 (Which failed horribly I might add) and at the same time make it even MORE arcadey by removing the option to even choose our own routes to the patrol zones.

Despite the strong reactions the majority of the community has had because of this it's highly unlikely that the devs will reconsider and make the sim we all want. The only way would probably be to take the dev teams families hostage. (I hope I don't give someone any crazy ideas with this)

Let's face it, the gaming industry of today is all about money. It's sad but we will probably never get a game like AOD again.

CB..
05-18-2004, 12:58 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif definitely "give us a dynamic campaign or the seagull gets it!!!!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

oh dang it there aren't any seagulls i keep forgeting..seagulls would be too interesting to atmospheric perhaps would hint at the fact that yu were near the coast ...if indeed there is any coast in the game...say what about that ...if there is no coast in the game give us some seagulls and we'll pretend there's a coast in the game LOL!!! no that's too scary a concept...hey they could use the seagulls as markers for the power ups and health packs...travel under a seagull and yu get full hull damage repaired...there's a good idea....yu could of course just pull into a dry dock in yur flotilla base and emerge a set time later (say two months) having been repaired ..but that would involve having a base to pull into....no ok seagull power ups it is then..no one will notice..he he!!! all in fun... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif


oh heck we havent even started on the worry about what the targeting element will look like...yu know the red triangle idea from SH2...

whats the betting it will a huge full screen flashing florescent orange arrow with the words "THERE IS AN ENEMY SHIP HERE!!!! NO OVER HERE STUPID!!!!" the game will then auto focus on the enemy ship so yu cant actually pan the view anywhere else...the game will take control of the submarine away from yu and plot a course to intercept load all the torpedoes tubes and only give yu back control when yu are in the ideal firing position so yu can have the pleasure of pressing the cute little fire button...if yu hit the ship then a huge flashing yellow message will apear on screen saying "WELL DONE YOU'VE SUNK A SHIP...2000 POINTS CONGRACTULATIONS,YOU GET A SNORKEL IN THE NEXT MISSION"

and some celebratory music will play...

some one wake me up please....

[This message was edited by CB.. on Tue May 18 2004 at 12:07 PM.]

Kejotikk
05-18-2004, 01:18 PM
CB stop that, you're giving me nightmares.

misha1967
05-18-2004, 01:56 PM
Au contraire...

Keep it up, CB, I'm laughing my tuches off here! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Still think that your idea needs work, though. I mean, all of that needless boredom between firing the torp and it traveling to its target... It'll scare ALL the arcaders away, and then they'll just go buy Half-Life 2 instead (which they wouldn't do under any circumstances. We all know how much the kiddies are yearning for an arcade subsim).

So how 'bout the sim shutting down when you hit "fire" and then simulating the run instantly, giving you a "GOOD JOB, YOU GET +300 BONUS POINTS" or a "YOU MISSED, DORK!" flashing message on screen, after which you're teleported to base where you can buy upgrades from the Moogles in St. Nazaire.

Just a thought.

Redwine
05-18-2004, 02:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CB..:

...if yu hit the ship then a huge flashing yellow message will apear on screen saying "WELL DONE YOU'VE SUNK A SHIP...2000 POINTS CONGRACTULATIONS,YOU GET A SNORKEL IN THE NEXT MISSION"

and some celebratory music will play...

some one wake me up please....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So good...... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

And when you have 3 snorkel you can change two of them by a Type V Acoustic torp.......!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

______________________________
.
http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/pietraroja/imagenes/firmas/EscudoU552b.jpg
.
The Ancient History of the Submarine
"Subgenesis" (http://www.iespana.es/Subgenesis/subgenesis/sg00.htm)

Manual TDC
"HTDC Tutorial" (http://www.iespana.es/rotteufel/htdc_tutorial/a_start.htm)
.

CB..
05-18-2004, 06:56 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif cheers guys http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif but it goes without saying i hope the game isn't even remotely like that...what a waste if it is...that sub interior modeling is the best ive personally ever seen in any game and the crew look top rate too...some one deserves some sort of award for the modelling..it's a nightmare to imagine that sub in an aracde campaign...like finding out someone's painted over a genuine Rembrandt canvas with a picture of their Aunty Ethel in a floral hat... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Lili_Marleen
05-19-2004, 12:47 PM
ok.another post. just to make THIS list longer

Tallaght
05-20-2004, 10:56 AM
I can't believe it, i really can't. After all the posts in the Subsim.com forum about Dynamic campaigns. After Neal Steven's assuring us that the Developers were monitoring the Subsim.com Forum for idea's and how they would respect our wishes, and yet here we find ourselves, looking upon a 'scripted' non-dynamic game (with loads of eye-candy and a few 'bits'n bobs' to enliven the whole thing). I posted on the Subsim.com Forum as Sniper_1 and i was (like most 'bubble heads') all for the idea of a Dynamic Campaign, even going so far as to sugest that Germany might even be capable of 'winning' the Dynamic campaign.And yet once again we are let down, a la SH2, once again Developers and Producers cannot replicate the one,true 'gem' of a subsim: AOD. Now AOD was by no means perfect, and its 'dynamic campaign' was not a real dynamic campaign, but it is still the 'gold standard' to beat.

I mean what is going on here? are Ubisoft deaf?Blind?Stupid? What they are going for is the Tony Blair approach to games, all style and no substance, "trust us to deliver a great game". While the game is visually stunning (and would normally start me on the well worn PC upgrade path), what i've heard about the actual in game mechanics makes me want to cry. For me a PC game (of ANY genre) need to have 3 things if it is to do well these days:

1. It must be dynamic (i.e with an element of randomness, even if this only comes via a mission editor/builder) so that the game can be replayed many times without losing its freshness (who would want to play the 'stock' SH2 campaign more than once?).

2. It must be easy to Mod. A dedicated community must be able to pick away at the game and produce mod upon mod to enliven and deepen that gaming experience. SH2 is only marginally playable because of the dedicated tema over at Subsim.com who turned it into something that is somewhat accurate simulation.

3. It must have a good visual appeal for the type of game it is. Modern 1st person 'shoot 'em ups' are of course loaded with the latest visual goodies and are expected to be excellent looking. Turn based strategy games, on the other hand do not have this expectation. Simulation games lean towards the first type of game of course, but one must still have a good underlying game. Look at the most popular and longlived flight sims like Falcon3 etc. They are great looking games but the underlying game engine makes the game what it is, not any fancy pants graphics. The PC games market is littered with great looking flight sims that sucked at gameplay.

As i watched SH3 'hatch' and waited for communication from Neal Steven's i have to admit that i did become sceptical about SH3, even predicting that the game would allmost certainly be of the 'scripted' type. I am going to restate a feeling here that i've expressed i few times in the Subsim.com Forums: To hell with games developers who seem to be pathologically UNABLE to deliver what we, the subsim community want (and who will ultimately buy the product). Check out the Indie Subsim section of the Subsim.com Forum for what Mike 'Red October' is doing, and stand in awe of what one man is doing in his spare time for a hobbie. Check out all the MODS done by the various 'experten' on the Forum, the PA dev team (they are too many to name, but from the bottom of my heart, thank you guys, for making SH2 a 'playable' product). I hate to admit it but i will only buy SH3 (if at all) if the team that gave SH2 its 'makeover' can work their magic again. But in future i think we should support the efforts of the indie subsim game developers as they will be much better placed to deliver what we want.

Thats enough of my rant, i'm off to explore the depths of the rest of this Forum.

Uberduper
05-20-2004, 12:28 PM
I think I could live with a scripted campaign with some random encounters along the way, considering the great new features.

What I couldn't live with is not being able to manualy sail to patrol zones. This takes a big tactical element out of a subsim.

Many times in SH 2 I would stop the time compression just to do a hydrophone check or scout the horizon for enemy masts.
For subsimmers this is what it's all about.

It sounds to me like SH3 will be instant action, sailing to a patrol zone on auto pilot just to take over manualy as your crew spots an enemy.

This and the sub/destroyer battles being balanced for more interesting gameplay is just absurd.

If Ubi want to appeal to a larger market great, give the true (and loyal) fans the option to turn these things of, ala IL2.

I would like to hear something from the development team to put our concerns to rest or tell us that it is going to be an sub action game.

At least the true subsimers would know whether to write it off or not.
It would save us all the time and energy of keeping up to date with it's progress, hoping and waiting.

CB..
05-20-2004, 01:51 PM
i actually hope that yu can actually turn of thise "so called dynamic" random encounters going to and from the patrol zone....it's bad enough having no control over the sub during the transition out and back to base without

a) being dumped into an encounter with a set of angry DD's just because i couldn't get control of the sub to travel submerged...

b)as the amount of time where i am actually allowed to command my own dang submarine is drastically reduced by this beurocratic interferance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif ...i dont want to waste any of it worrying wether the stupid beurocracy's tactics on the journey home are going to get me killed...making my attempts at raising the crews morale and so forth a complete waste of time.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


or

possibly


http://www.ebort.com/images/sh3joke.jpg

[This message was edited by CB.. on Thu May 20 2004 at 02:07 PM.]

HKLE
05-21-2004, 04:03 AM
Hi folks

I completely agree with Uberduper.

Eye candy is nice, but playability is more important. I bought SHII DESPITE the then already old graphics, because the gameplay is what counts.

Concerning IL2 -&gt; the campaign is not the best there is - but there is a very good mission editor, which gives a lot of freedom and control ...

Kejotikk
05-21-2004, 10:58 AM
SH2 isn't really the best choice as far as gameplay is concerned though...

SailorSteve
05-21-2004, 12:13 PM
"And Kejotikk reveal a formerly unknown talent for extreme understatement":
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kejotikk:
SH2 isn't really the best choice as far as gameplay is concerned though...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not sure I would have been quite as polite about SHII's lack of gameplay.

______________________________

Taxes are never levied for the benefit of the taxed.

Stevepine
05-21-2004, 03:08 PM
HI there, Im not sure if this stream is still being read after so many posts. I utterly sympathise with mny of the points here about the Dynamic campaign and it is desperately important. I too have always been a sim fanatic since my early teenage days of playing silent service on the C64. Which was an amazing game given the contraints from which i gained so much enjoyment. Even that game allowed you to sail around and had its dynamic element.

Please If you are at all involved in the making of SH3 and are reading this then dont listen to the few people who have been so hostile on this thread... but please do understand that the less freedom given to the player to sail where he wants and do what he wants is , the less people will buy the game. You MUST MUST MUST not alienate those people who are your most devoted customers.

Having said this I think I could live with the travel map thing if I could choose where I was to sail to . If the developers are really going to pre-determine the U boats course to the patrol area then we all might as well go home now.

Stevepine
05-21-2004, 03:09 PM
please forgive my stupid typos!

warningtone
05-22-2004, 09:27 AM
well a guess this 1 is for the trash heap
graphics over good game quality again,

when are these noobs gonna learn .....

SailorSteve
05-24-2004, 02:02 AM
Allow me to quote a fellow Subsim.com poster:

"I would pay 200$ right now for Aces of the Deep with just SH2 graphics and moddability."

That sums up my feelings exactly.

______________________________

Taxes are never levied for the benefit of the taxed.

Thomsen9U
05-24-2004, 02:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Fortunately, Ubisoft is making Silent Hunter III as accessible as it is beautiful. The game will feature an action-heavy mode that will allow newcomers to simply lock onto enemy ships and launch torpedoes at them without having to fuss with all the details. Meanwhile, hardcore submarine fans will be able to ramp up the realism settings and enjoy a complex and rewarding simulation. The game has a very easy-to-use user interface that allows you to do everything from dispatching damage control teams to certain sections of the sub to calling up ship recognition photos to identify what you're looking at through the scope.

Yet at the heart of Silent Hunter III is the thin line between the hunter and the hunted that existed during World War II's naval engagements. During our demonstration, we watched as the U-boat engaged the mighty Royal Navy battleship King George V at close range. The U-boat managed to land torpedoes in the battleship's engine section, and secondary explosions tore through the other half of the battleship. But before the U-boat could celebrate, a British destroyer rapidly closed the distance, firing its canon and nearly ramming the U-boat before dropping depth charges into the ocean. It was a scene that mixed exhilaration with nail-biting tension, and that is why Silent Hunter III is the best simulation of the show <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Found at:
Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/features/6098994/p-15.html)

Time to say goodbye...... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Mahlzeit

Stefan
U 664
http://sgaertner.bei.t-online.de/henne.jpg

Redwine
05-24-2004, 08:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomsen9U:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
But before the U-boat could celebrate, a British destroyer rapidly closed the distance, firing its canon and nearly ramming the U-boat before dropping depth charges into the ocean. It was a scene that mixed exhilaration with nail-biting tension, and that is why Silent Hunter III is the best simulation of the show <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Found at:
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6098994/p-15.html

Time to say goodbye...... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Mahlzeit

Stefan
U 664
http://sgaertner.bei.t-online.de/henne.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Hey......Thomsen, wait.....

Do not say good bye.......

I understand the frustration that to wait for a sim, and not have that we want causes......

But We are spoting phantoms at every place........

I am wrong, or in SH1, when you are at medium range....... DDs shot with cannon shells your periscope, so before to arrive over you to launch depth charges ?

I think so I am not wrong....... when you are between the minimun shoot distance of the cannons, and the maximun visual range to detect your periscope........... Japanesse DDs shoot your periscope with cannon shells........

This feature is from SH1, and all we are happy with SH1 and CAOD.........

Just wait to see how this feature works.......



I am so sad and disapointed with UBI policy to make that they want and not what the simmers want.........

But the Dev Team are not gulty for this, and I think so our fury must to result very frustrating for them...........

Of course, I agree with you if you want to show your frustration......... but in this determined situation, about this feature, may be will be an interesting behavior to protect our periscope from DDs weapons.......

Just an opinion..............

I always will be agree and support you, because you are a UBI Customer like as me.........

Best regards........Red.

______________________________
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http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/pietraroja/imagenes/firmas/EscudoU552b.jpg
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The Ancient History of the Submarine
"Subgenesis" (http://www.iespana.es/Subgenesis/subgenesis/sg00.htm)

Manual TDC
"HTDC Tutorial" (http://www.iespana.es/rotteufel/htdc_tutorial/a_start.htm)
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TonyEH
05-26-2004, 09:27 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gifFor ****'s sake. I've just read this and I cannot believe that the developers have simply ignored the mistakes of the past, not to mention the people here at this forum and Subsim.

Jesus Christ, how difficult would it be to give the player/Captain a random area of patrol and random "spawn points" for Convoys, single merchants and air threats to appear. This would be the randomness that most people would at least enjoy.

Bloody dickheads. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Thank god we still have AoD to go back to.

Tony

Uberduper
05-26-2004, 09:56 AM
Sounds ok to me.

It's a pretty breif description of the encounter.

There could be any number of senarios in effect.

Like being surfaced and creeping up on the Battleship at night or in low visibility to be spotted after the torps hit by the DD.

There's not enough info to make conclusions.

xwhitemousex
05-28-2004, 05:26 AM
Afreaka wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Static scenario/campaign bla bla bla = passenger on a ski bus to nowhere(norway) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm from Norway, I resent this remark!

Btw, non-dynamic campaign means the game is gonna be a one-time-through and you put it aside for other games. Kinda like SH2... I wouldnt ever go back and play the same missions all over again in the campaign because its too predictable and turns into a routine.

You know where the convoy is comming, so you'll plot the course the same way, plan your attack like you did last time it was successful and it will all be a cook-book recipe on how to play through it...

B-O-R-I-N-G

Dynamic = randomness = new challenges = fun

Nuff said!~

Weldinger
05-28-2004, 05:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Dynamic = randomness = new challenges = fun
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
= fun for many month.
But in this time you would not be able to buy further games from Ubi Soft. This is counter productive for Ubi Soft, they do not want such customers, therefore they let not develop games with long-term motivation and replay value.

Look at their plan to become the Nr.1 under the military game publishers. They catch up constantly developer studios which produce military shooter. Such games the kiddies play to the end in in two/three weeks and then buy the next game of this kind.

CB..
05-28-2004, 08:26 PM
sad to say but Weldinger is absolutely right..there is no other rational explanation for the demise of the dynamic campaign in modern simulations..with every new game we buy we make it less likely , not more likely , that we will ever get another simulation with a dynamic campaign ..

it's writ large for all to see....i don't say we should stop buying new sims...just that we should be every bit as cynical about it as the manufacturers...things have changed..i appreciate the work going into SH3 for example...especailly because of the rarity of naval simulations ...but beyond that they can go hang.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Tallaght
05-29-2004, 01:32 AM
I agree with Weldinger, its all about $$$$'s in the end (or Euro's). Like i have said before, i personally think we shoud abandon hope that any commercial games developer will ever give us what we want. Ubi's recent games release schedule seems to confirm what Weldinger is saying, they could'nt give 2 F%^@"'s what the games community thinks so long as people continue to buy their products as they release them. Whats in it for Ubisoft if they produce SH3 with a dynamic campaign and 5 years latter a dedicated group of 'hard-core' bubble heads are still playing and modding the game? from a commerical (i.e short term, idiotic, bean-counting) mentality, Nothing. What they want is money now and then money again in a few months time for their next game and so on and so forth (most PC game producers are following this business model, the one i like to call the 'PS2 model'). It seems to me that if a game comes loaded with enough visual 'ghee whizz' tricks and is aimed at the "Blast everything in sight with my big gun' brigade, then it will sell. Geniuine innovativeness and a willingness to take risks has dissapeared from PC games, and right now the overall quality of most games is about what you would expect from usual Holloywood fare, all flash and no substance.

Cynical and Annoyed (and waiting to buy SH3 when it hits the bargin bin)....

Tallaght.

CB..
05-29-2004, 08:09 AM
the really odd thing for me is that there is a mentality that comes with this big buisness approach that doesn't actually make real sense...it can be reasonably said that a dynamic campaign engine costs no more to "manufacture" and include in a game than a scripted campaign engine and missions...

past experience must illustrate that dynamic campaigns do not damage sales figures...

and as we would happily buy a new game with a dynamic campaign....

and as in a year or two's time we would allso happily buy the next version of that game with a dynamic campaign...

(no doubt with collateral improvements in other areas graphics etc...as per the usual improvements in tech over the years)

to manufacture a game with deliberately limited gameplay in order to bait the trap for the next generation of games and create a feeling of frustration amoungst gamers
"allways the next one will be the one"

is extremely blinkered and typical of companys who actually do not have any confidence in their own product..

this "rubs off" on the consumer untill negative feedback spirals that company out of the publics good graces...

so in the end "playing it safe commercially" can mean two things...

producing a game with short term sales in mind is to produce a game that doesn't satisfy the criteria of "playing it safe commercially"

"playing it safe commercially" is to produce a game with maximum features and long term re-playability
as this pleases the consumer ...establishes a positive brand image and encourages future sales...anything less than this is just shooting yur self in the foot chasing the illusion of short term profitability...

but hey what do i know...seems to me that a sort of finacail anorexia has become the norm in big buisness... too many paranoid suits scared to death of loosing their jobs..so scared that they can't think beyond the next finacail year..

RedTerex
05-29-2004, 08:33 AM
I said that I wasnt going to post on this SHIII forum again..but after reading CB's post I have to say; great post CB ! You have spoken on ALL our behalfs with that excellent post. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Absolutely brilliant.

Thank you. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Regards

RedTerex

Tallaght
05-29-2004, 08:34 AM
CB,

I agree with you my man, most companies are so short sighted that i'm surprised they survive year to year. I work for a large, very sucessfull US tech company, the outstanding leader in its technical field. Yet inside the organisation there is constant resistance to anything genuinely innovative and the accountants are in charge everywhere. Nothing really new will be tried for fear of failure, plus the arrogant attitude that the way they do business is right and the customer has to accept what we give them (afterall we know best.....)

CB..
05-29-2004, 12:19 PM
Cheers guys just thinking out-loud.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

Sulikate
05-30-2004, 02:23 PM
...more a WORRIED vote... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

CB..
05-30-2004, 06:39 PM
this game has me confused for sure..one half of me thinks it will be absolutely fascinating...the other half thinks it will be hugely irritating....i'm betting both my halfs are right!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

sdcruz
05-31-2004, 03:17 AM
Well said Tallaght, well said.

misha1967
06-02-2004, 09:39 AM
Further proof that depth and openness won't hurt future sales of similar games, and that companies, if they think such is the case, are talking out of a part of their anatomy that isn't normally associated with speech:

Ever heard of MS Flight Simulator?

They don't come more open-ended than that one, yet I don't seem to have ever noticed an unwillingness among simmers to buy the next update as soon as it becomes available. I should know, because I'm one of those simmers.