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BaneOfTheLegions
02-27-2017, 07:00 AM
This whole no Cooldown, ignores stamina, dodging from the assassin classes and a few select others (Valkyrie, Stick B,..?) Seriously needs some looking into.

Atleast make it relevant to Stamina, I mean if you can barely swing a Dagger, Axe, Katana, then how are u prancing around 10ft intervals around in a circle non-stop..? It avoid attacks, even if their on the side their dodging to (except in the case of the the longer ranged characters) I mean I can swing my flail in a literal circle and it does nothing.

And for the trolls, guardbreak is easy to counter, so all they have to do is counter and then keep pressing dodge until their stamina is back, over and over until your dead/out of stamina or you back them into a corner.

TripSin.
02-27-2017, 07:27 AM
I'm pretty sure GB is guaranteed against a character dodging and they can't CGB if they dashed. They're also negative after a dash for a few frames.

B3NNS
02-27-2017, 07:29 AM
If they use their side dodge attack they become immune to guard break.

Guard break > Dodge > Attack > Guard break

Pingu-mlg
02-27-2017, 07:32 AM
They can't counter a GB AT ALL during or right after the dodge. Sorry but this is in the category of git gud.
And In the case of Assassins, can you blame them? I mean their defense lasts less than a second and needs to be reapplied after every hit. Not to mention all assassins have the deflect ability which is a dodge in about the same timing as a parry.
All these people hating on dodges while defending is so much more powerful.
Also you can actually GB them right before their dodge attack actually initiates, happens to me more often than i'd like.

Leon026
02-27-2017, 07:35 AM
So you want classes that dodge due to lower health, require stamina (the same resources that you use to attack), to be able to survive - while you swing away your sword/axe without ever needing to use stamina for defensive abilities. Gotcha.

lucasnrachel
02-27-2017, 08:28 AM
I think spamming ANY ability should cost more stamina. If it's a combo then no as it's a combo but the second usage should make it to where you can't use it more than twice in a row without becoming exhausted.
It would give a break for cheese moved , dodging should be moved to 3 as others could be trying to cheese you but it's like your zone attack you can't use more than 2 times with a Dodge and you are exhausted. Spamming it with any character means you found a move to not actually fight and just cheese the game. At that point why play? Once in a while someone will come alone and not allow you to do it.

r4ptorr
02-27-2017, 08:53 AM
You can easily counter a dodge with a guardbreak (unless they dodge backwards). that makes dodging a real risk if you do it sideways.. Another exception is when they dodge and attack (you can not guard break that).
But on the other hand you should know a simple rule.. If an assasin dodges, you always guard that side, because their attack comes from the same side as a dodge. So now you have a simple routine to counter dodges:
1)When they dodge you immideately put your guard stance to the same side as their dodge;
2) if there is no attack animation - you guard break them (dont be ******ed and wait for hud notifications :P learn the animations instead so you have the upper hand);
3) If you see they initiate an attack while dodging (again dont wait for hud notifications, just learn thei arnimations so you know what is happening before the hud flashes). Then you you want you can parry the attack into free guard break or play safe and simply guard.

And that's basically where dodge becomes useless, unless it's a situation where they dodged your attack and countered it. But hey.. then it's your own fault :P

PandaCDN
02-27-2017, 08:56 AM
The only change to dodge right now that i believe needs to be put in is dodging while exhausted. Right now most assassins especially the PK can dodge backwards faster than they can run backwards while exhausted not to mention still be locked on and be able to play defensively. Dodging while exhausted shouldnt be a thing or be extremely limited.

r4ptorr
02-27-2017, 09:13 AM
as i said, i had numerous occasions where i attempted a gb attempt as a valkyrie after a pk dodged sideways, only to whiff (blue sparks) and be gb´d myself.
Also sidedodging and attacking as valkyrie is slower than an enemy gb attempt, so there seems to be a problem for me. I am researching in the exact frame data´s later today.. but there is something odd going on and apparently i am the only one experiencing this? Maybe because i am the only one still playing valk..

The whiff you are talking about (you basically GB them, but you get these blue sparks and are shoved away) happens when they roll (press dodge twice). But that is not a dodge so they cant roll and attack at the same time. As a Valk you should try to time your zone attack slightly after they initiate their roll. Should hit them (unless they rolled backwards - then you can't do anything). What is really effective with a Valk is to do a backstep and charge your shield bash as soon as they start rolling. If you release the shieldbash at the right time you will knock PK down, because she wont be able to dodge right after a roll - use this window of opportunity :)

What is slightly annoying with PK, at least for me, is their Guard break.. I can counter GB from all other classes almost 100%, but when it comes to PK something is off.. Sometimes it just does not register as a counter GB. I think it has something to do with their 3 stabs coming after GB and ****ty P2P networking.