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johnboy1967
09-06-2004, 11:48 AM
as i posted yesterday i am going to be a complete newbie to the flight sim scene.i have seen advertised a logitech 2.4ghz freedom cordless joystick at what i think is a great price 19.99.would this serve me well as i learn the skills of virtual flying or is there any scare stories regarding this piece of equipment.

johnboy1967
09-06-2004, 11:48 AM
as i posted yesterday i am going to be a complete newbie to the flight sim scene.i have seen advertised a logitech 2.4ghz freedom cordless joystick at what i think is a great price 19.99.would this serve me well as i learn the skills of virtual flying or is there any scare stories regarding this piece of equipment.

r0bman
09-06-2004, 11:56 AM
i have a logitech extreme 3d pro which seems pretty similar to that one... and it's awesome except for one major drawback: the pots (sensors that read the input from the movement of the joystick) get "contaminated" very easily, throwing off calibration. it's very simple to fix: throw a few drops of WD-40 in and work it around for a bit. it does get annoying doing this every month or so, but it's well worth it... best feeling joystick I've ever owned

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lil_labbit
09-06-2004, 12:13 PM
over-all concensis (EDIT: http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif consensus? lol - better late than never) seems to be that Logitech sticks are very bad http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I Had their top-model Wingman Stike Force 3D - all I can say is I'm glad I got rid of it - I for one am never gonne buy a logitech again.

I'd advice to get a Saitek stick http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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christopher65
09-06-2004, 12:37 PM
Have a cordless logitech freedom 2.4 and have had no probs.Nice heavy feel to it and not to bad on the batteries.

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242Sqn-TheProf
09-06-2004, 12:42 PM
Durability is a real issue with Logitech sticks, there very nice at first, then they wear out starting about the second month ! I had two in a 9 month period then got a Saitek X-45. I could have saved a lot of money going with the Saitek right from the beginning, instead of saving money with the LogiTech's !

You start getting spiking with them, where the stick sends signals even when you don't move the stick. When it gets bad it's like two people fighting over the stick at once ! If you think your going to play the game a lot, the Saiteks or CH sticks are actually a cheap investment. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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TgD Thunderbolt56
09-06-2004, 12:43 PM
logitech joysticks any good


No.


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F19_Ob
09-06-2004, 12:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by johnboy1967:
as i posted yesterday i am going to be a complete newbie to the flight sim scene.i have seen advertised a logitech 2.4ghz freedom cordless joystick at what i think is a great price 19.99.would this serve me well as i learn the skills of virtual flying or is there any scare stories regarding this piece of equipment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I have that stick and I cant recommend it,
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif although I really like the grip and the cordlessness and even the button setup.

Many seem to have great problems with logitech sticks and it have been discussed earlier on the board.
Some of my friends who also have this stick usually end up with similar problems after some months flying (5-6 monts or so).
I must add that I liked it very much the first five months, until it faulted.
My wingman Olli72 also had same stick, and same faults.(unusuable after 4 month)
A usual problem seem to be that when flying the stick will add input on some or several axis. For example it can add aileron to one side without any input, or when using elevator it gives full rudder aswell.
Sometimes the problem can go away for awhile and sometimes it constant.

My problem is like above stated that it gives full rudder to one side when I use elevator, wich always results in flipping when in a dogfight. View buttons sometimes wont work (every 5th time)
This stick also auto calibrates so these problems are not due to that.

Many who have experienced logitech products seem unhappy ( my impression so far)

I wont buy their sticks anymore. Not quite sure what I will buy next though.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

leadbaloon
09-06-2004, 12:58 PM
The general consensus appears to be no, but I've had a Logitech FF 3D for about nine months now and haven't had a problem with it. I had far more problems with my Saitek, but from what I've read here, I appear to be in a small minority.

WWeasel11
09-06-2004, 01:18 PM
I have had a Logitech wingman extreme for about three years now and have no problems whatsoever. I have a Saitec X-45 for when my wingman finally dies. I'm amazed the stick has lasted as long as it has, as much as I use it and abuse it.

BlastinFooz-619
09-06-2004, 01:20 PM
man i just replaced my logitech after 3 weeks cuz it is stiff and i dont like it. i went to frys and got the saitek rumble force cyborg 3d and man is this joystick good it has the rudder controls and force feedback. and it was only 10 dollers more than the logitech. saitek is the way to go.

Bearcat99
09-06-2004, 01:26 PM
I suggest a Saitek X45. Most bang for the buck IMO.

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F19_Olli72
09-06-2004, 01:30 PM
I had a Logitech Freedom 2.4. It was good the first 2 or 3 months, but then the problems began and it only got worse and worse. Nowdays its a piece of useless plastic junk collecting dust in the bookshelf. I dont think ill buy a stick from Logitech again....ever.

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sparrow420
09-06-2004, 01:38 PM
I have both a Logitech Digital 3D (old) and an Extreme 3D Pro (new).

I use the OLD one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Here's why:
1. To me, most important is a stable pitch control
2. The spring in the Extreme 3D pro (E3DP) is quite stiff, making it difficult - when you are pulling a lead angle - to increase the lead just a little bit. With a strong spring you tend to overshoot... You can blame it on a bad potmeter but spring stiffness is also a cause. The spring in the LD3D is weaker, therefore better.
3. There's more room in the LD3D to make modifications. In mine I've removed the potmeter, and replaced it by a LED and a LDR (resistance changes with light) and 2 linear polarizers (one fixed in front of the LDR, and one attached to the pitch axis). And now it's absolutely noise free http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The other axes are less important: roll control can be adjusted in software quite well and rudder pedals freed me from twisting the stick (which is a decent, but far from ideal solution).

To be less sensitive to noise, you might want to partially rewire the joystick (like give each potmeter its OWN ground, rather than making ground loops) and reverse the wiring of the potmeter of the pitch axis. Pulling the stick implies INCREASING the resistance, and the larger the resistance the easier it is to pick up noise!

In a nutshell: are (logitech) joysticks any good?
Nope! If you want a decent one: you really need to build/modify your own...

Cheers!

Maj_Death
09-06-2004, 01:42 PM
Logitechs feel great at first but they are designed to only last a month or two. I strongly recommend you stay away from them. Now yes some people do get lucky and end up with the 1 out of 10,000 Logitechs that actually lasts but the other 9,999 out of 10,000 have to buy a new stick after only 2 or 3 months. I recommend Saitek. The Cyborg and EVO are first rate sticks at about the same price as a Logitech. Unlike the Logitechs that last 2 months, the Saiteks come with a 1 or 2 year warrenty and it isn't a joke. Those things do not wear out even under very heavy use. CH is also good but they are extremely over priced. A stick similer to a base model $30 Saitek costs about $150 US from CH. They do last forever though, I'll give them that. I've got a CH Yoke that has got to be atleast 10 years old and yet it still works fine.

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LStarosta
09-06-2004, 01:45 PM
Three words:

Logitechs blow.

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Maj_Death
09-06-2004, 01:47 PM
That's 2 words http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

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LStarosta
09-06-2004, 01:50 PM
Shhhh, it's artistic license... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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oddglob
09-06-2004, 04:45 PM
I can only echo the sentiments of most other posters here. Over an 18 month period I went through about 5 Logitech joysticks and 3 Logitech steering wheels. In every single case, the potentiometers simply wore out. Mechanically they were all fine - it was just the pots - and it is not possible to buy replacements. I even checked with the distributer, who simply did not carry spares. Even with constant cleaning, all of these devices simply got to a point where they completely lost their precision and calibration.

I don't know what I am going to do about a joystick now. My current Microsoft Sidewinder just doesn't cut it for this game, as it not only lacks a twist rudder, but also lacks a hat switch. So I have used the throttle slider to control the rudder and two switches to control the throttle.

All stores where I am only seem to sell the Logitech stuff, which I now won't touch with a barge pole. otoh, if Logitech supplied 5 spare sets of pots in the box of every joystick they sold, I'd probably be happy to use them. I do have to admit, they feel good, but with a life span of 3 months - not worth the money imo.

VW-IceFire
09-06-2004, 07:53 PM
So is the Saitek X45 the clear winner then?

How much do they typically cost? Are they digital/optical like my Sidewinder Precision 2 or do they need calibration like the old analogues?

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lil_labbit
09-06-2004, 08:00 PM
bucks for pleasure - now - yes - x45 wins
in less than 1 month the x52 will win though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/x52.htm
release date 10/2004 - about same price as the x45 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif howtheydothat?
lol - I see an X-52 in my future - and I'm heading right for it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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BlastinFooz-619
09-06-2004, 11:37 PM
i saw the x45 for 80 bux at frys electronics, if there is not one by where you live you can order one through their online store i think? if you dont have have the 80 bux or dont like the x 45 setup go with the one right under it witch is the one i got the cyborg 3D rumble force for 40 bux. i have big hands so the x 45 was just to small with the crazy ammount of buttons it has. plus i like force feedback and the rumbling when you shoot or drop bombs. lets us know what ya got.

Maj_Death
09-07-2004, 02:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lil_labbit:
bucks for pleasure - now - yes - x45 wins
in less than 1 month the x52 will win though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/x52.htm
release date 10/2004 - about same price as the x45 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif howtheydothat?
lol - I see an X-52 in my future - and I'm heading right for it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not true, the X52 is over 50% more expensive ($80 for X45, $130 for X52).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spelling mistakes left in intentionally to annoy tttiger.

Maj_Death here, I/JG1_Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

I/JG1 Oesau is recruiting axis pilots who prefer to fly maximum realism. We accept both veterans and rookies. We fly in VEF2, VWF and may join other online wars in the future. I am currently the acting CO, if you are interested in joining please PM me here or page me in HL.
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Ankanor
09-10-2004, 05:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Ob:
I have that stick and I cant recommend it,
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif although I really like the grip and the cordlessness and even the button setup.

Many seem to have great problems with logitech sticks and it have been discussed earlier on the board.
Some of my friends who also have this stick usually end up with similar problems after some months flying (5-6 monts or so).
I must add that I liked it very much the first five months, until it faulted.
My wingman Olli72 also had same stick, and same faults.(unusuable after 4 month)
A usual problem seem to be that when flying the stick will add input on some or several axis. For example it can add aileron to one side without any input, or when using elevator it gives full rudder aswell.
Sometimes the problem can go away for awhile and sometimes it constant.

My problem is like above stated that it gives full rudder to one side when I use elevator, wich always results in flipping when in a dogfight. View buttons sometimes wont work (every 5th time)
This stick also auto calibrates so these problems are not due to that.

Many who have experienced logitech products seem unhappy ( my impression so far)

I wont buy their sticks anymore. Not quite sure what I will buy next though.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same thing here, it adds left aileron, and sometimes rudder as well. And that is after some 150 hours of gaming(3 weeks real time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif) I sent it for repair, will report in 2 weeks.

Logitech have really good design, but it ends with that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

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Caress you with my lips.
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And with a tender kiss to wake you up.

Essen,23.02.2004 20:53

HansKnappstick
09-10-2004, 06:23 AM
I own a Logitech Wingman Extreme 3D and am quite frustrated with it. It is spiky and hardly allows for smooth movement in the small movement zone (i.e. difficult to aim precisely).

But maybe it's me and my poor abilities.

NorrisMcWhirter
09-10-2004, 06:43 AM
Hi,

I had a Wingman 3D and it lasted 12 months. The pots were ok but the gimbally thing was worn out.

For about 8 months, it was a good stick with decent response.

I've only owned 4 joysticks; Kempston Competition Pro 5000, Quickshot 2, Wingman 3D and M$ FFB 2 and you can't really compare these so how it is relatively (to say a Saitek), I can't say.

Ta,
Norris

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BSS_Goat
09-10-2004, 06:51 AM
Had a Logitech Wingman and it lasted about 1 month .... ended up buying a Saitek Evo and it seems OK. (It has lasted 10 times longer than the Logitech lol)

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lil_labbit
09-10-2004, 08:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maj_Death:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lil_labbit:
bucks for pleasure - now - yes - x45 wins
in less than 1 month the x52 will win though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/x52.htm
release date 10/2004 - about same price as the x45 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif howtheydothat?
lol - I see an X-52 in my future - and I'm heading right for it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not true, the X52 is over 50% more expensive ($80 for X45, $130 for X52).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spelling mistakes left in intentionally to annoy tttiger.

Maj_Death here, I/JG1_Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them athttp://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm

I/JG1 Oesau is recruiting axis pilots who prefer to fly maximum realism. We accept both veterans and rookies. We fly in VEF2, VWF and may join other online wars in the future. I am currently the acting CO, if you are interested in joining please PM me here or page me in HL.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL I did see the X-52 for $89,- on pre-order online somewhere :P - sorry can't find the link again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

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CRSutton
09-10-2004, 03:39 PM
I like my saitek Evo. It is a nice smooth, twisty stick. My logitech wingman force feed was a total dog. Never did work right and wore out very fast.

Bearcat99
09-10-2004, 08:30 PM
The thing I dont like about the X52 is they took out the rudder rocker. They should have left it in and added a twist stick so you could choose. The rudder rocker works great for flaps when used in banded mode.

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steiner562
09-10-2004, 08:59 PM
Been using a saitek CYBORG 3D GOLD for the last 3 years now nearly 4 years,even had a friend who had the same stick, upgraded to a x-45 and after a month sold it and went back to the cyborg lol!,of course it all comes down to personal preference but for a guy getting into this sim I recommend this stick, at this stage they are very cheap,Ive dropped it more than a few times and really ****d it around for those hard deflection shots.. so far it still works perfect,anyway thats my 2 cents goodluck!
Regards
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adlabs6
09-11-2004, 08:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
So is the Saitek X45 the clear winner then?

How much do they typically cost? Are they digital/optical like my Sidewinder Precision 2 or do they need calibration like the old analogues?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They don't have optical sensors, but I've only calibrated my X45 maybe 3 times in nearly 2 years (after driver updates). It never goes out of calibration for me. Just be sure to use the latest driver/profiler from the Saitek website.

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