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crazyivan1970
07-27-2004, 02:11 PM
Greetings.

Could anyone provide answers on following questions:

1) First days of Barbarossa, were Me109F models available at that time? If they were, which ones?

2) Battle of Moscow, which version of spitfire was used in Moscow air-deffence?

3) Battle of Kuban, what LW aicraft was present? Was A5 present or it only appeared at battle of Kursk, or was it A4?

4) When and in what battle 190A6 saw combat on the ETO for the first time

5) Was G6 present at battle of Kuban? Or G-2 was a prime LW fighter at that time? Was G-6-late present at battle of Kursk?

6) When did FW190A8 and F8 entered the service in ETO and at which battle they saw combat.

7) When did G10 appear for the first time

8) Did G6/AS see any action on eastern front and where if it did.


That`s it for now, looking forward to some answers. Thanks in advance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cheers!

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

crazyivan1970
07-27-2004, 02:11 PM
Greetings.

Could anyone provide answers on following questions:

1) First days of Barbarossa, were Me109F models available at that time? If they were, which ones?

2) Battle of Moscow, which version of spitfire was used in Moscow air-deffence?

3) Battle of Kuban, what LW aicraft was present? Was A5 present or it only appeared at battle of Kursk, or was it A4?

4) When and in what battle 190A6 saw combat on the ETO for the first time

5) Was G6 present at battle of Kuban? Or G-2 was a prime LW fighter at that time? Was G-6-late present at battle of Kursk?

6) When did FW190A8 and F8 entered the service in ETO and at which battle they saw combat.

7) When did G10 appear for the first time

8) Did G6/AS see any action on eastern front and where if it did.


That`s it for now, looking forward to some answers. Thanks in advance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cheers!

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

bandrade
07-27-2004, 02:36 PM
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2072/LW_OBs.html

Check here, there is some data on Order or Battle for the Luftwaffe and what planes are available.

When I get home I'll dig around for more info.

Wildcardz

crazyivan1970
07-27-2004, 02:42 PM
Kewl, some interesting info there. Not always specific about plane types, but still good, Thanks.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Udidtoo
07-27-2004, 02:43 PM
I haven't found the answer to a single one of these yet but man am I finding some cool sites searching.

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

crazyivan1970
07-27-2004, 02:49 PM
Lol, thanks guys, i just short in time for anything - i know what google for. Much appriciated http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

bandrade
07-27-2004, 02:51 PM
Searching for Order or Battle for different countries helps http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VOL_Hans
07-27-2004, 03:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
1) First days of Barbarossa, were Me109F models available at that time? If they were, which ones?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks like Bf-109F-2's were available with some units.

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

ZG77_Lignite
07-27-2004, 03:03 PM
Though I could easily be wrong, I don't believe any FW190's were available on the 'south front' (Stalingrad, Kuban) until much later in the retreat (Namely the Crimean retreat, and maybe not even then?).

JG54 switched to the FW190A4's as soon as they were available on the Leningrad Front, and I believe they upgraded 'steadily' as new models became available. JG51 was equipped with FW190's (A4 and later some A5) when they became available on the Moscow Front, and later Kursk (after which they mostly transfered to Italy).

bandrade
07-27-2004, 03:23 PM
Found this on the following website. So you can associate sqauds with the planes available for Operation Barbarossa.

"1., 2., and 3 Staffel of the OKL's Aufklarungsgruppe are present with the high-alititude Ju 86Ps.

7 Stukagruppen are placed at the disposal of II. and VIII. Fliegerkorps, II. and III./St.G 1 with 70 aircraft, I. and III./St.G 2 with 83 aircraft, and the whole of St.G 77 with 122 aircraft. In addition, IV.(St)/LG 1 is operational in northern Norway with 42 Ju 87Bs.

The Luftwaffe's fighter force consists of JG 3 under Maj Gunther Lutzow equipped with the Bf 109F; II and III./JG 27 under Maj Wolfgang Schnellmann with the Bf109E; JG 51 under Molders with the Bf109F, II and III./JG 52 under Maj Hans Trubenbach with the Bf109E; JG 53 under Maj Gunther von Maltzahn with the Bf 109F; JG 54 under Maj Hannes Trautloft with the Bf109F; and JG 77 under Maj Bernhard Woldenga with the Bf109E. There is a single Bf110 equipped Zerstorergeschwader, ZG 26 Horst Wesel."

http://www.angelfire.com/my/rememberww2/1941/06/22.htm

Here are the entry service dates for 190's

http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/Variants.htm


Still looking.

PBNA-Boosher
07-27-2004, 04:29 PM
1. I believe that Bf-109F-1's and 2's were available, but most of the LW was still using Emils.

2. Not sure at all.

3. Kuban was 42-43, right? I do not believe that 190A5's were yet present there, but by the later part of that conflict some may have moved in.

4. I think the 190A6 first saw combat in the Western Front in mid-late 1944. On the ETO I have no idea.

5. It doesn't make too much sense for the G6 to have taken place in the Kuban. I think even in 1942 there were some Emil squadrons, some more F versions, and G-1's and 2's were present.

6,7,8: Absolutely no idea.

Remember, I didn't do any research right now, as I'm busy. I just pulled all of this out of what I retained in my head.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

ianboys
07-27-2004, 05:17 PM
1. Yes. F-2 and maybe some F-2 with 20mm cannon.

2. Spit V but only in 1942/later

3. E7, F4, G2, Bf110, bombers, stuka. Also Fw-190 with a Schlachtgruppe or Schnellkampfgruppe. Many reports by Russians of meeting them. F-2 model I think (=A-5/U-17)

4. Not sure. Certainly present vs western allies. In Russia in 1944 at least with JG54. Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey also used them (because II/JG54 was a part) in Finland.

5. Don't know. You can find at http://www.ww2.dk/

6. http://www.ww2.dk/

7. Not sure - http://www.ww2.dk/ - also Hungarians built them.

8. No, except maybe around Murmansk with JG5. Two were sent to Finland but flew without boost like regular G-6 Late.

ianboys
07-27-2004, 05:18 PM
Tentative date for F8 in East - May 1944.

crazyivan1970
07-27-2004, 05:21 PM
Ian, SpitV, but what version?

Thanks.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

WTE_Galway
07-27-2004, 05:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Ian, SpitV, but what version?

Thanks.

V!
Regards,

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure about moscow specifically but:

118 ORAP /VVS- Spitfire PR Mk.IV(1942~1946)
7 IAP . Spitfire Mk.Vb(1943)
67 IAP Spitfire Mk.Vb
16 GvIAP /PVO Spitfire Mk.Vb(1943), Spitfire Mk.IX(1944)
177 IAP / PVO Spitfire IX(1944)
11 GvIAP Spitfire IX(1945)
26 GvIAP / PVO Spitfire Mk.Vb(1944), Spitfire Mk.IX(1944)
27 GvIAP / PVO Spitfire Mk.IX(1944~?)
102 GvIAP Spitfire Mk.IX(1945_?)
20 IAP . Spitfire Mk.IX(1942~1945)
36 IAP(57 GvIAP) Spitfire Mk.Vb(1943)
767 IAP Spitfire Mk.IX(1944)
821 IAP . Spitfire Mk.Vb(1943)
25 ZAP . Spitfire Mk.Vb(1943)

Stachl
07-27-2004, 06:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Greetings.

Could anyone provide answers on following questions:

1) First days of Barbarossa, were Me109F models available at that time? If they were, which ones?

2) Battle of Moscow, which version of spitfire was used in Moscow air-deffence?

3) Battle of Kuban, what LW aicraft was present? Was A5 present or it only appeared at battle of Kursk, or was it A4?

4) When and in what battle 190A6 saw combat on the ETO for the first time

5) Was G6 present at battle of Kuban? Or G-2 was a prime LW fighter at that time? Was G-6-late present at battle of Kursk?

6) When did FW190A8 and F8 entered the service in ETO and at which battle they saw combat.

7) When did G10 appear for the first time

8) Did G6/AS see any action on eastern front and where if it did.


That`s it for now, looking forward to some answers. Thanks in advance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cheers!

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The answer to Number 1, according to 'Bf 109 Aces of the Russian Front' Ospery Aces series:

June 21, 1941

There were, give or take 1 or 2 Gruppen, 20 fighter Gruppen at the start of the attack. Of these, 18 were equipped exclusively with the F model 109 (F2s with F4s coming into play in August), 2 had a mixed bag of Fs and Emils, and 6 Gruppen had Emils only.

Hope that helps, love your servers. Thanks.

Stachl

VW-IceFire
07-27-2004, 06:35 PM
Pierre Closterman reported fighting FW190A-6's over France during 1943.

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RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

3.JG51_Stecher
07-28-2004, 12:45 AM
Deliveries of the F-4 began in June of 1941, but to which units these very first aircraft went to I'm not sure. By July 1, an F-4 of 8./JG52, WkNr 7020, crashed. At this time, they were based at Bucharest. If Bucharest on July 1, 1941 is considered part of Barbarossa, then the F-4 was there, albeit in limited numbers. It seems the F-2 held a presence through the winter of 41/42, but the F-4 was there.

The G-6 first arrived in February of 1943 in the Mediterranean, and then quickly to western European units. The units in the east received them last, but I'm sure they would have gotten to the Kuban well before the last bridgeheads were abandoned in October.

As for the later G-6 in the Battle of Kursk, I don't think so. That is early-mid July 1943. The new Erla Haube canopy began to be fitted at the end of the year. And the taller tail/rudder assembly not until the beginning of 1944.

The G-10 appeared in October of 1944.

http://flygirl.dnsalias.com:8080/jg51/190sig.jpg


3./Jagdgeschwader 51
3./JG51_Stecher
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

3.JG51_Stecher
07-28-2004, 01:59 AM
Both the A-4 and A-5 were at Kursk. As for other service dates, the A-6 is June 1943, A-8 is March 1944, and F-8 is April 1944. For these three I can't confirm exact time for the ETO. I'd think the A-6 and A-8 would be immediate for RVT, but maybe the F-8 was in the east until the ground war came to western Europe in June? Or maybe they were involved in Italy immediately in April, which would count as ETO.

The Battle of Kuban seems to have an official span of February to October of 1943. That's a while. So it would carry the 109G-2,4,6 and 190A-4,5,6 I'd think.

http://flygirl.dnsalias.com:8080/jg51/190sig.jpg


3./Jagdgeschwader 51
3./JG51_Stecher
www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

jurinko
07-28-2004, 02:18 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Greetings.

Could anyone provide answers on following questions:

1) First days of Barbarossa, were Me109F models available at that time? If they were, which ones?

F-2s I would say, but also many E-7s

2) Battle of Moscow, which version of spitfire was used in Moscow air-deffence?

Spit VBs were delivered in 1943.. were used for PVO, but what does it mean Battle for Moscow? November-December 1941?

3) Battle of Kuban, what LW aicraft was present? Was A5 present or it only appeared at battle of Kursk, or was it A4?

Bf 109F-4s, G-2s , G-4s, Fw 190 A-4s as fighter-bombers

4) When and in what battle 190A6 saw combat on the ETO for the first time

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

5) Was G6 present at battle of Kuban? Or G-2 was a prime LW fighter at that time? Was G-6-late present at battle of Kursk?

G-2. G-6 late - depends what do we mean for Kursk battle. Germans mean 2 weeks until Prokhorovka, Russians mean Kursk including Rumjancev operation against Belgorod and Oriol in August.. I would say G-6 early only.

6) When did FW190A8 and F8 entered the service in ETO and at which battle they saw combat.

Spring 1944, for sure they fought at Anzio bridgehead, Italy.

7) When did G10 appear for the first time

sometime in autumn 1944

8) Did G6/AS see any action on eastern front and where if it did.

Some losses were reported over Hungary when coming to contact with Russians besides Western allies.

---------------------
Letka_13/Liptow @ HL

csThor
07-28-2004, 02:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
1) First days of Barbarossa, were Me109F models available at that time? If they were, which ones?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With the exception of parts of JG77 and I.(J)/LG 2 all LW fighter units in the east flew Bf 109 F-2 or even F-4 (III./JG 52, one Gruppe of JG77 changed their old Emils for F-4 soon after June 22).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
3) Battle of Kuban, what LW aicraft was present? Was A5 present or it only appeared at battle of Kursk, or was it A4? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

During the Kuban Battle the most numerous german fighter AC was the Bf 109 G-4. A few Bf 109 G-6 (growing in numbers right before July 43) and a single squadron of Fw 190 fighter bombers (not fighters!!) were present.

The fighter units on the northern flank of "Citadel" (Luftflotte 6, JG54 and JG 51) used a mix of various Fw 190 versions - some A-3, A-4, A-5 and some A-6.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
4) When and in what battle 190A6 saw combat on the ETO for the first time<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First appearance in the East was early July 1943, so my guess is June 1943 in the West.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
5) Was G6 present at battle of Kuban? Or G-2 was a prime LW fighter at that time? Was G-6-late present at battle of Kursk?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See above. G-6 had entered service in the East right before "Citadel". Luftflotte 4 (southern flank of Citadel) operated a mix of Bf 109 G-4 and G-6 with the latter growing in numbers.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
6) When did FW190A8 and F8 entered the service in ETO and at which battle they saw combat.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First appearance of A-8 in the East seems to be around late July 1944. The first A-8 in the West seem to have been delivered in May or late April 44. I have no idea on the F-8.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
8) Did G6/AS see any action on eastern front and where if it did.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't think so. There weren't many produced and most went to specialised "High Altitude" units for intercepting Mossies or tangling with allied escort fighters.

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