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The4ngryLem0n
02-26-2017, 08:13 AM
Alright, before you all lose your mind, yes I know For Honor is not entirely historically accurate. The vikings are incredibly off. Female warriors everywhere. This is not how in-armor fighting goes. Swords cannot penetrate armor. Yada yada yada.

But let's talk about the historical connections of the game. I post it here because I can only link so much. And maybe you guys can fill int he rest.

So let's start with the knights.

I cannot identify the exact armor but I can identify the helmet as a visored barbuta helm. I can't identify the armor but the warden's default suit has asymmetrical pauldrons, a feature commonly seen on italian suits of armor. When you lock on, the two side stances the warden takes are pflug stances. The hand positions are switched accordingly but they are both pflug. The High guard the warden takes looks similar to the ochs stance. This is one of the ones I'll need your help on since it's similar to ochs, but there's enough differences for me to believe that that is not ochs. I just barely started hema. The last thing is the execution known as the 'hilt strike' is a maneuver known as mordau or murder stroke.

The conqueror, the heavy class of the knights. Their armor design is similar to that of the Knight's Templar. The flat top great helm is the biggest indicator. Along with the uniform, the shield also suggests that this is actually an earlier more primitive armor design (which is ironic to put the heavy in the early forms of armor). Despite popular belief, not all knights carried shields. Usage of shields was based upon the armor. As quality went up, the need for shields went down. So later century knights didn't use them and the knights that did had poorer armor. I wish I could talk about flail combat and shield hand positions but I don't know much about that.

The Peacekeeper. In terms of warrior...I can't find anything. I could be wrong, but I can't find anything that could even be remotely like a peacekeeper. Still a nice assassin's creed thing. But I will say their usage of dual wielding is accurate as sword and dagger is the most common form of dual wielding with practitioners using the sword for offense and the dagger for parrying and defense. Also, should the battle become even more close quarters, the dagger can still be used to stab.

The lawbringer has the most advanced armor and the only one that wears full plate. I can't say for sure what armor that is but it looks like maximillian armor. Lots of maximillian armor had a huge bevor (the thing that juts out from the neck). Then there are the source breakers on the pauldrons which is an attribute of later century armor. I cannot identify the exact helm the lawbringer wears but it looks like a tudor close helm.

As for those little soldier guys that you tear through with one hit, the fodder wear sallet helmets with what looks like brigandine armor.

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Time for some vikings.

Let's start with the raider. Topless with bones, skulls, and horns on his helmet, raiders could easily be considered the least accurate of the vikings. The Dane axe being an accurate weapon seems to be the only accurate. Now, I can only find one thing the raider could be: a berserker. Now, the berserkers were viking warrior whose fighting surrounded a totem animal. I know of three clans: the boar (whose name I cannot recall), the wolves (ulfhednar), and the bears (the berserkir). These clans were referenced in a number of sagas and were described as charging into battle with an animalistic fury to the point they were supposedly seen clawing and biting weapons and shields; it was believed they were possessed by the spirits of their totem animal though the exact reason cannot be pinpointed (some believe it to be a hallucinogenic mushroom while others say it was self-induced hysteria). They were said to wear no armor. Now, there was a period of time there was a debate over the term berserker as it could mean "bear-shirt" IE Wearing the pelts of bears or "bare-shirt" IE charging into battle without a shirt or topless. Now, I've heard that its interpretation of bare-shirt is becoming decreasingly popular and practically abandoned but at one point of time people did consider viking berserkers as charging into battle topless and this could have inspired the raider.

Speaking of berserkers: since berserkers was a blanket term to include all three clans, if we assume the raider came from one clan then the berserkers are a reference to the berserkir or the bear clan.

While I heard of valkyries as a mythological warrior clan (like amazons), I the only Valkyries I know of are spirits that choose who dies on the battlefield and carry them into the after life (half going to vahalla and the other half going to Freyer's version of vahalla).

Then the warlord, the most accurate in the viking portrayals. There is the round shield. Their armor shows leather and gambeson over chainmaille. Now, while people suspect the vikings to use leather armor it's been hard to prove since leather does not age well. At the moment, it's just suspicion. Then we get to the sword. Why is it a gladius? No really. Why does the website list is as a gladius? No, vikings never used the gladius (though it has to stay like that on the wiki since it is what the official website says). Though, vikings did come to use the spatha sword and derivatives of the spatha, which replaced the gladius in the Roman Empire.

Now the little minions don't seem to be wearing maille which could actually be accurate while ironic for the vikings. Something to note was metal for all three cultures. Their metallurgy was hugely affected by the quality of the ore. Vikings had quality but low quantity. Samurai had quantity but low quality. Knights get spoiled with both quality and quantity. This is why vikings usually use axes over swords. Swords were expensive. The thing is the term 'knight' or 'samurai' specifically talks about their warrior elite while the term 'viking' is pretty broad so the high ranking rich vikings (the ones comparable to knights or samurai) would definitely be in maille and had access to swords, the low ranking nobodies probably had to rely on gamebeson (which isn't saying much since basic european and japanese foot soldiers also got the crappy versions of their elite counterpart). So it's ironic that the nobody-fodders are all charging into battle with swords when they should've been given axes.

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Now we get to my favorite group: the samurai.

First off: what's with he wood armor? Samurai never used wood armor. Ancient Japanese used wood armor before the samurai but that was before samurai. Saying the Samurai used wood armor is the same as the warlord and his gladius.


The kensei have a thing similar to the conqueror: while they have what is described as the strongest armor they appear to be wearing the most primitive. It looks like kozane armor, or armor made with scales. A big thing that supports this are the sode, the massive rectangles on the shoulder. Something to note is the role of samurai. They were primarily archers. They were archers first, pikemen second and in europe neither groups used shields. But they did make something rather neat: the sode, which was essentially a shield hanging from the shoulders. When you shoot an arrow with sode like that, that sode covers a decent chunk of your body. The sode was their shield and was meant to counter arrows. And their sword usage is interesting too. Samurai were swordsmen last and while the katana is the most popular samurai sword, it was a sidearm. Swords they prefer include the tachi and the odachi/nodachi. Now, the nodachi was made as either a ceremonial sword or an infantry sword. As infantry swords, they were too long to be sheathed at the waist and had to be carried by hand. This is interesting since the kensei will run while holding the odachi at their side compared to the orochi or warden who will run with their sword sheathed.

Speaking of orochi, the orochi's comparison to ninjas is pretty accurate as while ninjas are mostly seen as assassins their duties also included espionage and guerilla warfare and I'm sure we are all familiar with orochi jumping us and then running away when they're losing. The closest comparison I have for their armor is tosei-gusoku or samurai plate armor which, like the orochi armor, is made of horizontal plates. Also to note is the Orochi's sode size. Tosei-gusoku is later century samurai armor and have smaller sode (much like how the knights stopped using shields as their armor got better). Their sword guard is not permanent. Their neutral stance is the chudan no kamae. When you block up you enter jodan-no-kamae. I don't recognize the side guards since they don't look like anything I learned but I'm still new in kenjutsu.

Nobushi perfect match the description of onna bugeisha, female samurai warriors who were tasked with defending their villages while their husbands were away at war. Now for some reason the naginata is the most well known samurai polearm (I suspect Deadliest Warrior had a hand in that). While the male samurai did use naginata, they preferred yari (spears with a large number of different head variations ranging from stuff that looked like a trident to something like the poleaxe). The naginata was considered a woman's weapon and was the weapon of choice for onna bugeisha.

Finally the shugoki. Like the valkyrie, the shugoki was more based on myth than an actual warrior, in this case the oni. Oni were japanese demons that possess superhuman strength. The shugoki's mask is that of an oni. The weapon most attributed with the oni: the kanabo/tetsubo. Now, while the Samurai had a large arsenal of anti-armor weapons (which is also my response when people are like "Oh, how is a samurai supposed to hurt an armored knight? Katana can't cut through armor. Herp derp), the kanabo seems to be the most popular. Not only that, while kanabo come in a variety of shapes and size, some being as small base a baseball bat and some having spikes, the most well known are the ones that are the size of a person. There is even a japanese saying revolving around the notion of giving an oni a kanabo.

Then we get to the little samurai fodder. Something people don't realize is that there were shields back in the samurai era and I don't just mean tate shields but hand held shields. There are manuals found dictating the size and construction methods of these shields both one handed and two handed and they do look like the ones used by samurai fodder.
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So guys, anything else you can add?

TestO...
02-26-2017, 11:15 AM
damn that was a nice history lesson..

SiewcaRaka
02-26-2017, 12:28 PM
Nice post but some comments(not mean one!:P)




The kensei have a thing similar to the conqueror: while they have what is described as the strongest armor they appear to be wearing the most primitive. It looks like kozane armor, or armor made with scales. A big thing that supports this are the sode, the massive rectangles on the shoulder. Something to note is the role of samurai. They were primarily archers. They were archers first, pikemen second and in europe neither groups used shields. But they did make something rather neat: the sode, which was essentially a shield hanging from the shoulders. When you shoot an arrow with sode like that, that sode covers a decent chunk of your body. The sode was their shield and was meant to counter arrows. And their sword usage is interesting too. Samurai were swordsmen last and while the katana is the most popular samurai sword, it was a sidearm. Swords they prefer include the tachi and the odachi/nodachi. Now, the nodachi was made as either a ceremonial sword or an infantry sword. As infantry swords, they were too long to be sheathed at the waist and had to be carried by hand. This is interesting since the kensei will run while holding the odachi at their side compared to the orochi or warden who will run with their sword sheathed.

Well Orochi also doesn't sheath his sword and rather keep it in hand:P But so far so good besides tachi part. Tachi was a sword used in ancient times and was held differently than katana(blade down, like european sabres). It was popular until Muromachi as i recall, then katana took over. But sure, mostly for "last resort weapon" before k


Speaking of orochi, the orochi's comparison to ninjas is pretty accurate as while ninjas are mostly seen as assassins their duties also included espionage and guerilla warfare and I'm sure we are all familiar with orochi jumping us and then running away when they're losing. The closest comparison I have for their armor is tosei-gusoku or samurai plate armor which, like the orochi armor, is made of horizontal plates. Also to note is the Orochi's sode size. Tosei-gusoku is later century samurai armor and have smaller sode (much like how the knights stopped using shields as their armor got better). Their sword guard is not permanent. Their neutral stance is the chudan no kamae. When you block up you enter jodan-no-kamae. I don't recognize the side guards since they don't look like anything I learned but I'm still new in kenjutsu.


Chudan no kamae or seigan no kamae(depends on style) that is held wrong. He points to the sky while he should be aiming in enemy throat. This position is rather crude and not very safe. Side guards could be migi gedan and hidari gedan.


Nobushi perfect match the description of onna bugeisha, female samurai warriors who were tasked with defending their villages while their husbands were away at war. Now for some reason the naginata is the most well known samurai polearm (I suspect Deadliest Warrior had a hand in that). While the male samurai did use naginata, they preferred yari (spears with a large number of different head variations ranging from stuff that looked like a trident to something like the poleaxe). The naginata was considered a woman's weapon and was the weapon of choice for onna bugeisha.

Nobushi uses her naginata as yari(at least light atacks are mostly Yari :D) but naginata was quite popular among samurais until Edo period as it was quite versatile

Sirrkas
02-26-2017, 12:40 PM
Now the little minions don't seem to be wearing maille which could actually be accurate while ironic for the vikings. Something to note was metal for all three cultures. Their metallurgy was hugely affected by the quality of the ore. Vikings had quality but low quantity. Samurai had quantity but low quality. Knights get spoiled with both quality and quantity. This is why vikings usually use axes over swords.

If anything, I think half of all minions should have been given spears. They are cheap, have higher reach and are effective. I also heard, that vikings had more axes than usual, but I don't think, that is was the most common weapon (even though, it probably would look better in for honor). As far as I remember, that was mentioned in one of the channels, debunking matpat (not necessarily in the videoanswer to his video).

ButtR8peArtist
02-26-2017, 12:50 PM
if anyone interested in history, he'd read a book instead of playing for honor. why history when you play video games?

Kawira1
02-26-2017, 01:42 PM
Vikings and good ore? They had mediocre quantity but definitely not the best quality

The4ngryLem0n
02-26-2017, 08:00 PM
If anything, I think half of all minions should have been given spears. They are cheap, have higher reach and are effective. I also heard, that vikings had more axes than usual, but I don't think, that is was the most common weapon (even though, it probably would look better in for honor). As far as I remember, that was mentioned in one of the channels, debunking matpat (not necessarily in the videoanswer to his video).

In terms of history, you're right. The polearms were preferred over swords/axes for all three factions. But in terms of the game (with how all the creeps charge in sword and shield) it would've been more accurate to give the viking creeps axes as swords and the like were for the elite.