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Shade_Khalibur
02-25-2017, 02:31 PM
Despite of every "fix" or "workarounds", this p2p copnnection type still the worst to make the game functions working properly.

Into this matter, I should note Ubisoft Developers, and costumers, that even the product has it's own refunds clauses,
this counts as a defective product, as for the matter I can't use it properly.

Need to remind, that yes, the game had a Beta testing, which surely implies that even if I faced these problems (which I don't)
the realeased product should be fixed, long as even the developers made note that "the beta represents a unfinished product".

Sorry Ubi Developers, but i'll be contacting my lawyers soon.

**EDIT**

Sign this for at least a try. (Dedicated servers petition)

https://www.change.org/p/ubisoft-ubisoft-please-add-dedicated-servers?recruiter=61062418&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-custom_msg

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 02:55 PM
Start an online petition?

Shade_Khalibur
02-25-2017, 03:11 PM
Start an online petition?

Yes, I should. How they can make a deaf ear on a matter like this? Ticket I sent 15th Feb, still unreplied, a tons, massive thousand players having the same issue
And yet no reply. as for the matter they admit a connection problem like this, without solving it, will make a chain react of massive refunds.

Meksikinietis
02-25-2017, 03:14 PM
I think i need refund too..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvNu9rTZVJM

Shade_Khalibur
02-25-2017, 03:20 PM
yeah, it will not but you can try ;)

Well I shouldn't say its easy, but they can face at least a court trial and a diplomatic incident (long as I'm not a USA user)
Mostly because they can't make the own rules regarding buy/sell of any products.

Meksikinietis
02-25-2017, 03:33 PM
so they make the broken game with NO refund :D nice logic :)

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 03:34 PM
are you serious? i just had the same discussion in another thread. you are NOT entitled to a refund. by NO law.

Yes, with me. And you did not get the closure you seem to think.

In uk law at least "you have to offer a refund on certain items only if they're faulty such as....computer software."

Shade_Khalibur
02-25-2017, 03:39 PM
are you serious? i just had the same discussion in another thread. you are NOT entitled to a refund. by NO law.

Actually, as said, there are some that deos protect me. As for my country, does have a comsumer defense code, which allows me to tag this as a kinda diplomatic incident.

So those been said by a personal lawyer.

"Not entitled to a refund", again, any industry can't make "own rules" for buying or selling products, even when under contract, some clauses can be voided
under the case of "breaking law", like a defective product.

Shade_Khalibur
02-25-2017, 03:46 PM
jup i just read that i am wrong. then try it.

"try" is closer than I can get my friend haha
But well, here's a section of my country Consumer Defense Code

SECTION III
LIABILITY AS TO DEFECTIVE PRODUCTS AND SERVICES
Article 18. - Suppliers of durable or non-durable consumer products are jointly liable for either
quality and quantity defects that make them unfit or inappropriate for the use they are designed for,
or even diminish their value, as well as for those resulting from any discrepancy with the particulars
shown on containers, packages, label or advertisement, with due regard to possible variations in
view of their nature, being the consumer entitled to require replacement of the defective parts.
Paragraph 1. - In the case that the defect is not solved within thirty days the consumer shall be
entitled to demand alternatively and at his choice for:
I. - replacement of the product by another of the same type and in perfect conditions;
II. - immediate return of the amount paid, considered the corresponding adjustments, without
prejudice to a demand for eventual losses and damages.
III. - proportional reduction in the price.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 03:52 PM
jup i just read that i am wrong. then try it.

And that's the reality check. Average cost of a solicitor where I am is Ģ250 per hour and just to get Ģ50 back. There might be cheaper ways of pressuring them through other channels like Citizens Advice Bureaux, Trading Standards or similar in this or your respective country.

Derity
02-25-2017, 03:56 PM
Stop saying your gonna do it and just do it

Beneathar
02-25-2017, 03:59 PM
are you serious? i just had the same discussion in another thread. you are NOT entitled to a refund. by NO law.

Depends on where you live.

In Germany, the Law says, you always have the right to step back from a purchase 14 days after you got the product even if it works properly(this is only untrue for Product wich would become unsellable after such time, like food or underwear, or has been damaged by the customer), wich is certainly not true for video Games.

Furthermore, if a Product doesnt have a feature it should have (was officially announced) or this feature is broken for you, you can get a refund even 6 month after purchase (but you have to ask for the refund as fast as you discover the issue)

So if Ubi says, u cant refund the Game, that doesnt affect the german law, as this stand above ubis policies, wich makes their policy invalid at this point.

So if Ubi would deny refunds for german customers, theyre violating german warranty law and can be sued for that.

German Courts already ruled, that digital products follow the same rules real products do, so there is no excuse for not refunding the Game for German or even European users.

So German users are totally right when they ignore the policy of "no refund whatsoever", because it doesnt take affect in germany. Its like they would have written "with that prchase you also owe us your house, car and you childrens souls". Its just invalid.

So I strongly recommend all german players wanting a refund to go for a lawyer.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 04:02 PM
It would work better if people banded together as the negative publicity would prompt a better response. Online petition?

Shade_Khalibur
02-25-2017, 04:08 PM
Stop saying your gonna do it and just do it

I normally don't feed trolls, but trying to explain and get attention for players having the same issued, its how the society works.
shame on you trolling this.

King_Mandu
02-25-2017, 04:18 PM
Lol, this dude is going to his lawyers over a $60 game. No, you aren't.

Hogmin
02-25-2017, 04:22 PM
Yes, with me. And you did not get the closure you seem to think.

In uk law at least "you have to offer a refund on certain items only if they're faulty such as....computer software."

And in UK law, they're going to point to other FUNCTIONING games and say "It's his end, not ours." and poof, there goes your "law"
Don't be foolish.

Shade_Khalibur
02-25-2017, 04:28 PM
Lol, this dude is going to his lawyers over a $60 game. No, you aren't.

R$200,00 BR Royals Hard earned man.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 04:31 PM
And in UK law, they're going to point to other FUNCTIONING games and say "It's his end, not ours." and poof, there goes your "law"
Don't be foolish.

I'm not so sure. Neither you nor I can say conclusively what the outcome would be. County court judges/sheriffs do have some discretion for one thing and by the exact same principle one could point to everything that does work on ones internet and hardware and its back to the ubi software not working. Something being faulty isn't decided by majority. Judges, etc will tend to go on principle within the law.

Tillo.
02-25-2017, 04:49 PM
Bugisoft's support won't acknowledge that their game is broken, they will blame you, your pc, your isp, or your internet configuration.
If your CC company doesn't get you a refund either, what other choices do we have?

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 04:54 PM
Also,

In the UK this would be a civil case where the burden of proof is different. It is 'balance of probability' not 'beyond reasonable doubt'

These questions would be asked and the presiding judge or sheriff would decide on balance what is more probable.

"Was it reasonable to assume that the game would work on my setup?"

"Is it reasonable to say that every time I try to do something I am met with an error would constitute being defined as 'broken'?"

"Did I take evey reasonable step (opening ports, etc) to make it work?"

The test for these questions would assume the answer of an average and reasonable person. Not the answer of an internet troll, For Honor fanboy, IT professional or CEO of a games company.

But if you couldn't get legal aid or support from CAB, Trading Standards, etc then it could be a very long and potentially expensive exercise.

Drekle
02-25-2017, 05:17 PM
Instead of filing lawsuits just stop buying Ubisoft games. Their games haven't been that good anyway, and Wildland reviews are trending downward as well.

The problem is more widespread than Ubisoft. Stop buying Season Passes, stop buying games that are empty with DLC content to be added later, stop pre-ordering games entirely... etc..

FuriousMaximus
02-25-2017, 06:12 PM
not sure why any of you are SURPRISED

as VIRTUALLY ALL games are released as broken/unfinished betas now

this has been going on for YEARS upon YEARS

lol clueless gamers!

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 06:33 PM
not sure why any of you are SURPRISED

as VIRTUALLY ALL games are released as broken/unfinished betas now

this has been going on for YEARS upon YEARS

lol clueless gamers!

Not to the extent some have been experiencing. I, personally, have not bought a game that I was so unable to play due to constant errors before this. Bugs and problems sure, guess I'm just lucky. And the surprise would be to not get a refund for faulty merchandise. The gaming industry has no special privilege to ignore consumer rights.

RatedChaotic
02-25-2017, 06:49 PM
I call bs on those claims of recieving refunds. Show your proof! All I see are people claiming they got a refund but they show no proof...Do you really think I will take your word for it? Hell no I wont.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 07:08 PM
I call bs on those claims of recieving refunds. Show your proof! All I see are people claiming they got a refund but they show no proof...Do you really think I will take your word for it? Hell no I wont.

Lol
I call bs on you calling bs because who cares?

Gretta_Blade
02-25-2017, 07:24 PM
Yes i would like a refund yes i would like to participate in a class action lawsuit, im tired of companies releasing garbage and if we can set a precedence maybe it will stop. I have family members that are lawyers willing to see what happens if we go at it.

Rift74
02-25-2017, 07:42 PM
I dont know about refunds or laws concerning them but I can say the P2P system is garbage, I have spent 40% of my play time rebooting, disconnected or simply not finding games.

Once again Ubisoft has failed another title imo, The Division was a complete disaster to me, it was an altered product to what was promised way before the title was released and they gutted it and sold it as if it was the original product they had promised long before it released. Rainbow 6 Siege and now For Honor, I have just played a bit of Ghost Recon Wildlands and while I am excited for this game I found a ton of problems with it already. That being said I think Ubisoft is slowly losing its reputation for delivering solid titles, it just seems to me they are great idea's but the execution fails to deliver, all of these grade A titles had the promise to be superb but on some level failed to deliver, I can honestly say after these 3 titles my decisions to purchase their products is skeptical at best and I certainly wont buy season passes anymore.

I love Ubisoft and I have been a fan for a very long time but I fell like the quality is just not there anymore, half done games, games gutted before release and just ridiculous issues mar this once awesome game developer. I know some people will disagree but its just my opinion.

SpoopyBoofs
02-25-2017, 07:48 PM
A judge can easily look at a case like this and discredit it, the game isn't broken and no one can play, the game is made well and has issues with peer to peer. It's only been 11 days since release, gamers are so ****ing entitled now is disgusting.

First off, Ubisoft never forced you to buy the game, you made the choice based on multiple things such as interest in game, beta, etc.

Secondly, server issues happen with almost every MP game and take some time to fix. I hardly disconnect from a game and it's a rare instances, so while you might have it happen often, you can't just assume suing them will go your way, that's just stupid.

Lastly, they don't have a magic wand, they need to make sure the fix they are implementing won't cause more issues. Plus it has to go through certification for consoles so before getting the pitchforks have some patience as developer fixes isn't just a flip of a switch.


Yes i would like a refund yes i would like to participate in a class action lawsuit, im tired of companies releasing garbage and if we can set a precedence maybe it will stop. I have family members that are lawyers willing to see what happens if we go at it.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 07:48 PM
You can't go straight to 'class action law suit' you need to exhaust all attempts at getting a refund first. Point of Sale is your first call. Google the applicable Consumer Rights information from an official site (UK its gov.org), take notes and then approach them. Take it from there. Credit Card companies have channels for returns also.

I got my refund from Xbox with no problems. Though they did say its a one time deal which is nonsense.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 07:54 PM
A judge can easily look at a case like this and discredit it, the game is broken and no one can play, the game is made well and has issues with peer to peer. It's only been 11 days since release, gamers are so ****ing entitled now is disgusting.

First off, Ubisoft never forced you to buy the game, you made the choice based on multiple things such as interest in game, beta, etc.

Secondly, server issues happen with almost every MP game and take some time to fix. I hardly disconnect from a game and it's a rare instances, so while you might have it happen often, you can't just assume suing them will go your way, that's just stupid.

Lastly, they don't have a magic wand, they need to make sure the fix they are implementing won't cause more issues. Plus it has to go through certification for consoles so before getting the pitchforks have some patience as developer fixes isn't just a flip of a switch.

The main body of your text seems to appeal to some sort of special privileges for the gaming industry when it comes to consumer rights. There is none.

Judges are not gamers, nor IT specialists. What they would most likely see is a multi million dollar company refusing to give a bunch of kids their money back for something that is broken. I wouldn't expect much sympathy to be given to Ubisoft.

SpoopyBoofs
02-25-2017, 07:56 PM
It's not broken though. This is far from a broken game.


The main body of your text seems to appeal to some sort of special privileges for the gaming industry when it comes to consumer rights. There is none.

Judges are not gamers, nor IT specialists. What they would most likely see is a multi million dollar company refusing to give a bunch of kids their money back for something that is broken. I wouldn't expect much sympathy to be given to Ubisoft.

ExtraKrispyyy
02-25-2017, 07:58 PM
The Wife and I got back into video games and bought two copies to try and play. We cannot search for games together and can hardly get into the group to try and search. We played more games in the Beta than we can in the actual game. If there is any way to get a refund, im 100% on board.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 08:06 PM
It's not broken though. This is far from a broken game.

That would be for whomever presides over the case to decide. Not you, nor I and certainly not Ubisoft.

The law is vague. I use 'broken' as a catch all. It would boil down to;

Was it reasonable to assume the product would work on my setup?

Is it reasonable to say that the issue I face renderers the product unusable, ergo 'broken'?

Did I try everything I reasonably could to make it work or to get a refund?

What is regarded as reasonable would be based on a presumption of the views of your average person not a For Honor fanboy, troll, IT professional or CEO of a gaming company.

Drekle
02-25-2017, 08:07 PM
Sign this for at least a try. (Dedicated servers petition)

https://www.change.org/p/ubisoft-ubisoft-please-add-dedicated-servers?recruiter=61062418&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-custom_msg

Maybe start a new thread with a more deliberate title. Signed.

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 08:12 PM
That would be for whomever presides over the case to decide. Not you, nor I and certainly not Ubisoft.

The law is vague. I use 'broken' as a catch all. It would boil down to;

Was it reasonable to assume the product would work on my setup?

Is it reasonable to say that the issue I face renderers the product unusable, ergo 'broken'?

Did I try everything I reasonably could to make it work or to get a refund?

What is regarded as reasonable would be based on a presumption of the views of your average person not a For Honor fanboy, troll, IT professional or CEO of a gaming company.

To be called broken, majority of customers should be unable to play, while it is problem of MINORITY. You take it to court, Ubisoft lawyers prove that majority got good game, with some bugs sure but still playable and boom - your case is done. Cause it implies that problem is on your side. You will lose more money for this but hey, go ahead. Stupidity should be punished :D

SpoopyBoofs
02-25-2017, 08:22 PM
To be called broken, majority of customers should be unable to play, while it is problem of MINORITY. You take it to court, Ubisoft lawyers prove that majority got good game, with some bugs sure but still playable and boom - your case is done. Cause it implies that problem is on your side. You will lose more money for this but hey, go ahead. Stupidity should be punished :D

This^

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 08:23 PM
To be called broken, majority of customers should be unable to play, while it is problem of MINORITY. You take it to court, Ubisoft lawyers prove that majority got good game, with some bugs sure but still playable and boom - your case is done. Cause it implies that problem is on your side. You will lose more money for this but hey, go ahead. Stupidity should be punished :D

No.

To be called 'broken' it has to not work for me. There is no special privileges for the gaming industry. If I buy a toaster and it doesn't work then whether or not the toaster you bought works is irrelevant.
You seem to think that a judge would care or have an in-depth knowledge of the gaming industry and want to side with a multi million dollar company over a bunch of kids. Why?

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 08:26 PM
No.

To be called 'broken' it has to not work for me. There is no special privileges for the gaming industry. If I buy a toaster and it doesn't work then whether or not the toaster you bought works is irrelevant.
You seem to think that a judge would care or have an in-depth knowledge of the gaming industry and want to side with a multi million dollar company over a bunch of kids. Why?

If you buy a hammer and it doesn't work but everyone around you are able to use it then you are at fault not hammer. We all got same lines of code so we all share one product. Yet there is minority that have problems. Problems caused by their side. Their PC, their connection or their provider. That is ALL.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 08:26 PM
Even then, if it was reasonable to assume it would work on 'my side' and every thing else works on 'my side' then boom there goes the defence.

DeVinFr0mHeAvEn
02-25-2017, 08:30 PM
In the world of a biased justice system, the rule of law comes down too how many resources and how many pieces of paper you have. Good luck fighting a mega game publisher that makes big brother countless revenue..the only way I see them reasoning is continuously complaining about the issues, more petitions to shed light too the big reviewers etc. If you really want a refund all you have to do is contact Xbox, steam, ps4 etc. Tell them the game is constantly kicking you from games rendering it unplayable due to the always online game function you might have to bicker back and fourth for a half hour tell them that you have no use for a game that is rendered unplayable 50% of the time I bet you'll get your money back. Don't be aggressive or anything stay calm and reason with them explain to them in a way to where they have to refund you. I would call this an unfinished product imo. There is still an abundance of reports of Players still not able to play at all.. make sure you stress that you've tried just about every workaround they will require you to troubleshoot prior to refunding just bear with it if you really want your money back. It is 100% possible despite them telling you otherwise.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 08:33 PM
If you buy a hammer and it doesn't work but everyone around you are able to use it then you are at fault not hammer. We all got same lines of code so we all share one product. Yet there is minority that have problems. Problems caused by their side. Their PC, their connection or their provider. That is ALL.

If I bought a hammer and the company said it can be used by people with all types of hands and it turns out that it cant be used by my massive hands then it was miss sold and refund.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 08:36 PM
can you please call your lawyer and channel your energy there? This here is getting tedious, you telling you everyone how you have problems with the game and how all should refund.

No, i'm advocating for people with legitimate claims to get a refund rather than being put off by people erroneously claiming they have no right to. Not everyone and not if its just cause you don't like it.

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 08:40 PM
If I bought a hammer and the company said it can be used by people with all types of hands and it turns out that it cant be used by my massive hands then it was miss sold and refund.

Aww he is ******ed. If you buy small hammer to use it on god damn huge nail then sure, it won't work but it is your problem. And have you asked the seller about your doubts? Have you show them your hand and said "could you check it for me"? I thought so.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 08:42 PM
In the world of a biased justice system, the rule of law comes down too how many resources and how many pieces of paper you have.
Good luck fighting a mega game publisher that makes big brother countless revenue..the only way I see them reasoning is continuously complaining about the issues, more petitions to shed light too the big reviewers etc.

If you really want a refund all you have to do is contact Xbox, steam, ps4 etc. Tell them the game is constantly kicking you from games rendering it unplayable due to the always online game function you might have to bicker back and fourth for a half hour tell them that you have no use for a game that is rendered unplayable 50% of the time I bet you'll get your money back.

Don't be aggressive or anything stay calm and reason with them explain to them in a way to where they have to refund you. I would call this an unfinished product imo. There is still an abundance of reports of Players still not able to play at all.. make sure you stress that you've tried just about every workaround they will require you to troubleshoot prior to refunding just bear with it if you really want your money back. It is 100% possible despite them telling you otherwise.

Well said. That is very good advice.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 08:57 PM
Aww he is ******ed. If you buy small hammer to use it on god damn huge nail then sure, it won't work but it is your problem. And have you asked the seller about your doubts? Have you show them your hand and said "could you check it for me"? I thought so.

Lol, really? So we're sticking with the hammer analogy then. (Btw I said hands not nails) here goes:

"I was perusing my favourite online hammer retailer the other day when I saw what looked like a very good hammer. I read about it to check that it would fulfill what I need it to do. Does it hammer? Yes! Excellent I thought. Will the grip fit in my hands. Yes it would appear so, my hands at least are basically the same as everyone elses. But when I get the hammer i'm unable to hold it. Now I've never had any problems with hammers before, I got one last week and it works fine. It does seem to work for other people but there is a few, like me, that it really doesn't. There is nothing particularly different about our hands as compared to any others. I cut my nails as the company suggested but still I cannot hold it. So I got a refund"

Man this is ridiculous.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 09:01 PM
well, whatever fulfils you i guess.

And trying to dissuade people from getting what's fair through disinformation is what fulfils you?

FUEGONOMICS
02-25-2017, 09:03 PM
give a man a hammer and nothing else, and then the entire world becomes a nail

cryptic.

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 09:04 PM
Lol, really? So we're sticking with the hammer analogy then. (Btw I said hands not nails) here goes:

"I was perusing my favourite online hammer retailer the other day when I saw what looked like a very good hammer. I read about it to check that it would fulfill what I need it to do. Does it hammer? Yes! Excellent I thought. Will the grip fit in my hands. Yes it would appear so, my hands at least are basically the same as everyone elses. But when I get the hammer i'm unable to hold it. Now I've never had any problems with hammers before, I got one last week and it works fine. It does seem to work for other people but there is a few, like me, that it really doesn't. There is nothing particularly different about our hands as compared to any others. I cut my nails as the company suggested but still I cannot hold it. So I got a refund"

Man this is ridiculous.

And then...thousand of people with same hand size show that this hammer works for them pretty good. Must be something wrong with your hand. Or maybe hammer is not idiot friendly, either way it is not fault of hammer:)

FUEGONOMICS
02-25-2017, 09:10 PM
And then...thousand of people with same hand size show that this hammer works for them pretty good. Must be something wrong with your hand. Or maybe hammer is not idiot friendly, either way it is not fault of hammer:)

sorry, but opinions that matter on this stretch further than this forum. Its a fact that if you bought the 100 dollar version of this, you got ripped off. Thats an established fact. Ok, if you bought a multiplayer game in 2017, and are ok with a 50% disconnection rate and sometimes minutes per match spent host switching and lagging out, then you dont deserve a refund. However, if you expected something comparable with the rest of the multiplayer market, then this game has failed you miserably.

if you purchased a game, and spend most of your time in the menus of the game because the game itself doesnt work, then dude, you cant ignore that something is wrong. If you feel like thats an appropriate use of your money, thats your opinion, but I purchased a game, and by definition, what I received is not a game, its a badly coded piece of software that was engineered with elements known to cause complete failure (like P2P). The finished product is worse than the open beta, I think if you are reading this forum and cant glean that particular piece of information, then you just dont read between the lines well, im sorry.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 09:12 PM
And then...thousand of people with same hand size show that this hammer works for them pretty good. Must be something wrong with your hand. Or maybe hammer is not idiot friendly, either way it is not fault of hammer:)

Lol, exactly. When I bought the hammer nowhere did it say it may not work if used by idiots. Miss sold refund.

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 09:13 PM
sorry, but opinions that matter on this stretch further than this forum. Its a fact that if you bought the 100 dollar version of this, you got ripped off. Thats an established fact. Ok, if you bought a multiplayer game in 2017, and are ok with a 50% disconnection rate and sometimes minutes per match spent host switching and lagging out, then you dont deserve a refund. However, if you expected something comparable with the rest of the multiplayer market, then this game has failed you miserably.

if you purchased a game, and spend most of your time in the menus of the game because the game itself doesnt work, then dude, you cant ignore that something is wrong. If you feel like thats an appropriate use of your money, thats your opinion, but I purchased a game, and by definition, what I received is not a game, its a badly coded piece of software that was engineered with elements known to cause complete failure (like P2P). The finished product is worse than the open beta, I think if you are reading this forum and cant glean that particular piece of information, then you just dont read between the lines well, im sorry.

I got 10% disconnection rate, host switching is rare. I spend most time in GAME not in the MENU. So yea, I can ignore this. Just like thousand of other peoples that simply play and have fun.

troops_2015
02-25-2017, 09:15 PM
I got 10% disconnection rate, host switching is rare. I spend most time in GAME not in the MENU. So yea, I can ignore this. Just like thousand of other peoples that simply play and have fun.

Then why are you here ffs?

FUEGONOMICS
02-25-2017, 09:22 PM
thousands instead of tens of thousands, already down from the original hundreds of thousands.

i dont have the statistics to back this up, but the numbers will be out there eventually for everyone to enjoy, but this game's multiplayer population is dwindling miserably, its common knowledge on xbox that this game does not work, the game is down to a 2 star rating, and even the clips that are taken from the playerbase to advertise the game all show lagouts and host switching to the extreme.

the service is more terrible this weekend than it has been since launch, and the game has received hundreds of 1 star ratings since the xbox multiplayer went further into disrepair on thursday. you can even find consumer affairs reports on this game. try really going out there and doing some research, and if you can find a legitimate consumer affairs report in the last 3 months that isnt on an Ubisoft game, ill eat your hat.

when im shopping for a game in the online store, its literally the only 60 dollar title on the list to have such a low rating due to a fundamental inability to play the game. its listed in the same category as 2 to 9 dollar indie games, because its a 2 to 9 dollar game, simple as that. if you managed to get more value out of it than that, im thrilled with your ability to play, or horrified by your terribly low standards, or maybe both in equal measure.

Agent_Coldhands
02-25-2017, 09:24 PM
I really think i am done with this game now, i just had another de sync error reconnecting bull crap at the start of another match that took about 10 min to find. This is fantastic but the service being provided is abysmal what a disservice to the people who made this fantastic game.

tonycawley69
02-25-2017, 10:19 PM
Sorry Ubi Developers, but i'll be contacting my lawyers soon.

**EDIT**

Sign this for at least a try. (Dedicated servers petition)

https://www.change.org/p/ubisoft-ubisoft-please-add-dedicated-servers?recruiter=61062418&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-custom_msg

Haha you're going to contact your lawyers? Ubi must be shaking in their boots!

You're going to spend thousands to get a refund of maybe 100?

Zekreusx
02-25-2017, 11:43 PM
Before going forward with this I would consider that it is a digital copy, and any problems encountered from a physical copy, would be caused by any defects in the actual physical object. Digital products I imagine would only be refunded if they were truly defective, such as you not receiving the game entirely, or the game servers already permanently closed prior to you purchasing it, with the promise of the servers actually being up. Also, another form of a digital copy game being defective is if the developers refuse to fix a game that is literally unplayable. So, the way I see it, requesting a refund over a connectivity issue which as far as we know, isn't permanent, is taking it a little too far. Also are you really going to spend a lot of money on a lawyer just so you can get your money back? I imagine you would spend more money on the lawyer than what you would receive.

troops_2015
02-26-2017, 12:15 AM
Regarding refunds:

It depends on the specific consumer laws in ones own country but in most cases if the game is not functioning as would be reasonably expected then you would be entitled to a refund.

Being digital, or that there may/may not be a fix at some undisclosed point in the future, that it allegedly works for most people or any other appeal to special privileges for the gaming industry are largely irrelevant.

Ask first at your point of sale, google consumer law in your own country, be persistent but not aggressive and in most cases you will get a refund.

The only reason consumer law is being brought up, and therefore talk of lawyers, is because some people, for goodness knows why, are trying to dissuade others from going for a refund under the false presumption that they are not legally entitled to one.

Choirs_Of_Vice
02-26-2017, 12:27 AM
It is about time to start a class action lawsuit to seek compensation or refund from Ubisoft for selling a product that does not function as advertised. Who's with me?

Chaplain-Moktor
02-26-2017, 12:27 AM
Well, it could be challenged by class action. The truth is I can't say I am selling you a product and then fail to deliver. Most companies only get away with it because it takes too much time and money to challenge and they know this.

troops_2015
02-26-2017, 12:45 AM
Not sure a 'class action' is really the way to go or even justified. Just keep trying to get a refund if you honestly can not get the product you bought to function as reasonably expected.

Alchemist..
02-26-2017, 02:20 AM
Despite of every "fix" or "workarounds", this p2p copnnection type still the worst to make the game functions working properly.

Into this matter, I should note Ubisoft Developers, and costumers, that even the product has it's own refunds clauses,
this counts as a defective product, as for the matter I can't use it properly.

Need to remind, that yes, the game had a Beta testing, which surely implies that even if I faced these problems (which I don't)
the realeased product should be fixed, long as even the developers made note that "the beta represents a unfinished product".

Sorry Ubi Developers, but i'll be contacting my lawyers soon.

**EDIT**

Sign this for at least a try. (Dedicated servers petition)

https://www.change.org/p/ubisoft-ubisoft-please-add-dedicated-servers?recruiter=61062418&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_page&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-custom_msg

And how you want to prove the game is not working if there is 300k players online? Everybody have same digital copy. That simple thing show its more your problem than Ubisoft, but lets say your case go through, then they start investigating your software, hardware, network connection internet provider etc. bc there is no reason to check Ubisoft.

Next thing is Ubi have thier own lawyer who knows everything about development, and have 1000 aruments to prove you'r wrong. your lawyer probably dont know nothing about game/software develompent.

Another, in whole universe you wont find any game/software free from bugs/issues, how exactly prove which is broken which is not?

And last thing is, your case wont start soon, what if after all the time you spend in court they fix all issues? you really want to pay all court costs whitch you can count in thousands, just to get your 60 euro back?

troops_2015
02-26-2017, 02:25 AM
And how you want to prove the game is not working if there is 300k players online? Everybody have same digital copy. That simple thing show its more your problem than Ubisoft, but lets say your case go through, then they start investigating your software, hardware, network connection internet provider etc. bc there is no reason to check Ubisoft.

Next thing is Ubi have thier own lawyer who knows everything about development, and have 1000 aruments to prove you'r wrong. your lawyer probably dont know nothing about game/software develompent.

Another, in whole universe you wont find any game/software free from bugs/issues, how exactly prove which is broken which is not?

And last thing is, your case wont start soon, what if after all the time you spend in court they fix all issues? you really want to pay all court costs whitch you can count in thousands, just to get your 60 euro back?

Lol. "Investigating your software, hardware" that's funny. Watch CSI much?

Alchemist..
02-26-2017, 02:38 AM
Lol. "Investigating your software, hardware" that's funny. Watch CSI much?

So how they should check is not fault of your softwer or hardware or just your network is fine? mabye just ask you
"ye i have intel i7 and and nvidia 960 gtx"
"ok your computer is fine its Ubisoft fault"

Keep trying persuade everyone your stupid argues.

Brunn_MgAmadd
02-26-2017, 02:45 AM
, just to get your 60 euro back?

I think the point is to make UBI liable so maybe they dont make so much errors...
if its not profitable to cut corners they wont...

troops_2015
02-26-2017, 02:46 AM
So how they should check is not fault of your softwer or hardware or just your network is fine? mabye just ask you
"ye i have intel i7 and and nvidia 960 gtx"
"ok your computer is fine its Ubisoft fault"

Keep trying persuade everyone your stupid argues.

Yeh pretty much. Have you ever seen how a court actually works? And I don't mean on TV.

But it's silly anyway, it'd never get to court. Either the cost and time would be to prohibitive or one letter from a solicitor to Ubisoft reminding them of the applicable laws and it'd be over.

Alchemist..
02-26-2017, 02:49 AM
I think the point is to make UBI liable so maybe they dont make so much errors...
if its not profitable to cut corners they wont...

yes but 1 person wont change nothing, it need to be made in big scale to make to have sense

troops_2015
02-26-2017, 02:51 AM
yes but 1 person wont change nothing, it need to be made in big scale to make to have sense

So if 1 person wont change nothing then maybe 1 person will change something?

Brunn_MgAmadd
02-26-2017, 02:52 AM
yes but 1 person wont change nothing, it need to be made in big scale to make to have sense

that's why there are class acts since they refuse refunds.
refunds are they easiest way to make a company liable for their mistakes, but ubi probably hemorrhaged alot from those so they refuse them now, so the next step is to remind them that they are not above the law.

Alchemist..
02-26-2017, 03:03 AM
Yeh pretty much. Have you ever seen how a court actually works? And I don't mean on TV.

But it's silly anyway, it'd never get to court. Either the cost and time would be to prohibitive or one letter from a solicitor to Ubisoft reminding them of the applicable laws and it'd be over.

Super, so you can rob someone say that's not you and you free? Or better, someone may say you rob him and you busted?

In my country you need evidence you can not judge someone without reasons and win bc you "said true" so in this case they need check is your hardware efficiency is ok, your system dont make problems, that you dont have other suspicious software, your internet speed is sufficient etc. just check that from your side is everything ok. otherwise every case is coin flip or person lying better will win.

Varangian_Wolf
02-26-2017, 03:10 AM
SIgned. Screw Ubi. They should have done this from the beginning. EVERYONE should be signing this!

ArtoriusAllen45
02-26-2017, 03:29 AM
[SIZE=6]][SIZE=2]I did a little experiment today to see how many games of Dominion I could place in 1 hour and 2 hours also how many connections issues would boot out of the game in this time frame as well. THIS RIDICULOUS. In one hour I was only able to play 2 games. I would dropped out of a game because of connection issues 7 times with in this hour and 4 times in a row. 2 hours was even worse 11 drops because of connection issues and I got to play 3 games. This is beyond insane. Every game I have purchased from Ubisoft in the past 4 years has had issues. They are generating record revenue for their company and their quality keeps getting worse. p2p servers is so they can save money, that is it nothing else and the game is suffering, the customers are suffering. I have been a staunch fan of Assassins Creed, even when Unity came out I overlooked the issues within because I was a fan and thought the story and its depth was the best since AC2 but since The Division, and now For Honor, I truly hope all gamers get tired of this company and never purchase another of their products. I want them to go bankrupt, I want them to be a cautionary tale for the rest of the industry. If game studios dont want to pull a ubisoft, they need excellent QA. This is what I want other developers to say and think when it comes to publishing incomplete games. Why do you keep doing this Ubisoft? How many chances do you think you deserve? I wil not purchase another game from your company and I hope other people will follow suit. You do not deserve our time, our attention, or our money. It is clear you do not care about selling a good product, and you damn for sure dont care about the consumer or you wouldnt keep follwoing this same model over and over again. You never offer your customers any type of amends, you never apologize, you never give anything to us who had stuck by your products, all you do it take. You take our time, our money for the game itself, then you infuse everything with microtransactions and Im starting to believe you cause connection issues on purpose because nobody can get enough XP or Steel in For Honor because we always get booted off so we get tired of trying to get to a point in the game to get better gear so we have to buy it via microtransactions. I will not allow you to steal anymore of my time and money. Go to hell.

troops_2015
02-26-2017, 03:39 AM
Super, so you can rob someone say that's not you and you free? Or better, someone may say you rob him and you busted?

In my country you need evidence you can not judge someone without reasons and win bc you "said true" so in this case they need check is your hardware efficiency is ok, your system dont make problems, that you dont have other suspicious software, your internet speed is sufficient etc. just check that from your side is everything ok. otherwise every case is coin flip or person lying better will win.

Depends on the country but typically a refund on a purchase would be something like a civil case in the small claims court.

Robbery would first be investigated by the police and then, if sufficient evidence was there, it would become a criminal case in a court of law.

Two completely different things, processes and even burden of proof. Balance of probability v beyond reasonable doubt.

ZoB.Raymond
02-26-2017, 03:47 AM
are you serious? i just had the same discussion in another thread. you are NOT entitled to a refund. by NO law.

Hmmm, in France they can be put in court too. And they surely will for Rainbow Six, it's allready on the go, and I will seek people to try something for BOTH games since I bought them both and both are just scams.

ShadowDen.
02-26-2017, 12:29 PM
thatīs your opinion. I have paid 112€ and played 67h. Thatīs 1,7€ per hour. I am enjoying it to the fullest.

Man, Ubisoft pay you for comment ? I see you in all positions to defend the position Ubisoft )

troops_2015
02-26-2017, 12:49 PM
Hmmm, in France they can be put in court too. And they surely will for Rainbow Six, it's allready on the go, and I will seek people to try something for BOTH games since I bought them both and both are just scams.

To say the 'game' is a scam is unfair IMHO. It does work for some people. Though we have no official figures it seems likely it works well for a lot and reasonably well for most.

The issue is for the very small, I believe, minority of people who do have a genuine case for a refund, as the game is truly not functioning at a reasonable level, and are allegedly not able to get said refund.
If that is the case, it may or may not be, then that would be a breach of consumer rights in most countries.

I don't believe Ubisoft intended for it to not work for some people, nor that they wouldn't like to make it work for those people. That would not maximise profitability.

If one were to take last nights outages and imagine that is all some people have seen of the game since release, despite having perfectly functioning internet, and claim that that would not warrant a full refund, if requested, then either you are being disingenuous or you are a fool, possibly both.

Edit: this not all aimed at you Zob.

troops_2015
02-26-2017, 01:10 PM
You know, i am sounding like a record here, but instead of complaining all the time you could do the following:

gather information from people that have issues, try to find similarities and relay this information to ubisoft so they can actually FIX it.

Well at least you agree it is broken then as otherwise it wouldn't need fixed.

You may have missed that I actually defended Ubisoft twice and cast my doubts on the validity of all claims.
I personally think Ubisoft should be focused on making the game as good as it can be for the majority before working on the rest.

In the mean time, if you are one of the, probably few, genuine people that it really doesn't work for then the choice is yours as to if your money sits in your account or theres untill a fix is found.

Alchemist..
02-26-2017, 01:55 PM
Depends on the country but typically a refund on a purchase would be something like a civil case in the small claims court.

Robbery would first be investigated by the police and then, if sufficient evidence was there, it would become a criminal case in a court of law.

Two completely different things, processes and even burden of proof. Balance of probability v beyond reasonable doubt.

Idk how its working but i think if you want refund you need contact seller not court. If seller dont want to give you refund you need go to court and claim about breaking customer laws selling product whitch not working etc so thats already serious not walk in a park as you think bc they can be punished also by goverment for breaking laws in whole country and every other country can same thing but im not sure

troops_2015
02-26-2017, 02:19 PM
Yes, there are disconnects and things like not able to join the group but i am not the one claiming that i canīt play at all.

That's nice and your point is....?

Danzighjalmur
02-26-2017, 02:29 PM
I want a REFUND... I have a ticket open with Ubisuck.... Not nly have I bought 50000 Steel NONE of which has showed up in my account and its been a week... But Oh Boy did I GET CHARGED...
I bought the Deluxe Edition.... and they only gave me the STANDARD EDITION..... so far that's $60... THEN after yesterdays "unplanned Server Crash".... I logged back in and played a few games and dismantled the trash Blues in my inventory.... Played the next game and discovered that there server had deleted my equipped items as well... SO Pretty please with Sugar on top give me back my money. I have uninstalled the Game it is at this point unplayable. I will NOT be buying Wildlands or Watchdogs or *** Creed... Or Tom Clancy... or Ghost or anything that has a UBISOFT label on it. They need to fire everyone who is a CEO or EO or IO at that company and Fire there network team.

troops_2015
02-26-2017, 02:31 PM
Idk how its working but i think if you want refund you need contact seller not court. If seller dont want to give you refund you need go to court and claim about breaking customer laws selling product whitch not working etc so thats already serious not walk in a park as you think bc they can be punished also by goverment for breaking laws in whole country and every other country can same thing but im not sure

Absolutely you contact seller first. This was a hypothetical about what would happen if something went to court. Which it never would anyway. Someone would back down because its only Ģ50.

I've been defending the principle of a right to a refund if the game is genuinely unplayable for someone, as it was for me and I got my refund.

If someone cant imagine a genuine reason or can and still argues against it then they're just a**hats. I'm not directing that at you im.adam, just saying.

I did get a refund by the way because the outages last night was about as much of the multiplayer experience as I was getting the whole rest of the time.

I'm not saying boycott Ubisoft, I'll probably get Wildlands with my refund, I'm not saying p2p or refund now, or let me play as hellokitty or refund, nor I suck refund.

Merely saying that when there is a legitimate case for a refund then you should get a refund and everyone lises their mind!

MCMojoMaster
02-26-2017, 05:40 PM
So I got a full refund for that POS No Mans Sky and this broken *** game is no different, Ill expect a full refund whenever these clowns decide to respond to the ticket. Hell I am only 3 hours away, I could literally drive over there smash the game into the counter and demand my money back right then and there.

ZEONesp
02-26-2017, 05:56 PM
Signed dispite I know that Ubisoft dont fix their **** after grabing the cash....sadly.

Ulfhedinn_.
02-26-2017, 05:57 PM
I wish I had the money for lawyers. And the time to give this many ****s about Ģ40.

Cerezoss
02-26-2017, 06:16 PM
Not sure if it has already been post before (I read though 3 pages), but according to my knowledge, if you are from a different country than the seller then 'legal representatives' of your countries have to take that up with 'legal representatives' of that country (eg. state vs state).
I found a case with two married people from the Netherlands (my friends), with two accounts running on a single PC (couldn't afford two computers) and Blizzard promptly banned both of them for having multiple accounts in the day. I don't remember which game it was (could have been WoW maybe? A few years back?).
Anyway, Dutch Law states that when you are married, unless otherwise noted in a pre-nup, both your possessions are of you both, so also a game account.
Legally, they both owned both accounts.

What eventually happened was; They had to contact the government to have them fix the issue for them, as the government would have to represent them in court against the US, according to NATO law or something.

I think it's the same case as in getting a refund here, it doesn't matter where you live, as long as you don't live in the country of origin of the seller (steam, ubisoft, etc.) there is no real ground for you to fall back onto your own country's laws and you have to contact your government.
How; I don't know, and I wouldn't be able to produce the said specific laws for the Netherlands or NATO anyway, but this is what I remember of it.

However, if you bought it from a local reseller that's a whole different story, then you can duke it out with them.

tl;dr: Just because they broke a certain law or agreement in your country doesn't mean you are automatically eligible for a refund I think, and you have to contact your government to sort this out for you.

troops_2015
02-26-2017, 06:25 PM
Not sure if it has already been post before (I read though 3 pages), but according to my knowledge, if you are from a different country than the seller then 'legal representatives' of your countries have to take that up with 'legal representatives' of that country (eg. state vs state).
I found a case with two married people from the Netherlands (my friends), with two accounts running on a single PC (couldn't afford two computers) and Blizzard promptly banned both of them for having multiple accounts in the day. I don't remember which game it was (could have been WoW maybe? A few years back?).
Anyway, Dutch Law states that when you are married, unless otherwise noted in a pre-nup, both your possessions are of you both, so also a game account.
Legally, they both owned both accounts.

What eventually happened was; They had to contact the government to have them fix the issue for them, as the government would have to represent them in court against the US, according to NATO law or something.

I think it's the same case as in getting a refund here, it doesn't matter where you live, as long as you don't live in the country of origin of the seller (steam, ubisoft, etc.) there is no real ground for you to fall back onto your own country's laws and you have to contact your government.
How; I don't know, and I wouldn't be able to produce the said specific laws for the Netherlands or NATO anyway, but this is what I remember of it.

However, if you bought it from a local reseller that's a whole different story, then you can duke it out with them.

tl;dr: Just because they broke a certain law or agreement in your country doesn't mean you are automatically eligible for a refund I think, and you have to contact your government to sort this out for you.

It's really not that complicated.

If your in the EU go to https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/&ved=0ahUKEwia-LWMna7SAhUnC8AKHQ4JBIsQFggfMAE&usg=AFQjCNGDTzKWhaLx_YyYpq8BULnd-OtNGQ&sig2=gllzH3RXL_Yt2-NAx6hKCg

In the uk you have
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.tradingstandards.uk/consumers&ved=0ahUKEwjG-_CTm67SAhXrA8AKHfhpAHoQFghJMAU&usg=AFQjCNEENvy4KJ6qCTrnF_zB-PEI7h4DiA&sig2=IbE1bh6t5FhaKlsA4z6uvA
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.theretailombudsman.org.uk/&ved=0ahUKEwiQ2du4o67SAhUMBsAKHabaDX4QFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNHepDVfxRfPo5Hdd_QLBlA8e-UYxw&sig2=bGvd3kxMFGaIlmvtNI0c6g
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/&ved=0ahUKEwiQjL7Go67SAhWHHsAKHaEQD5AQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNHB7xJ3wGinHEoy3yHSG7i_HA83Aw&sig2=OiHl9exwQ5NvW0J7-8uC8w

All for free.

Check to see what you have in your region.

Choirs_Of_Vice
02-27-2017, 10:51 PM
So I contacted microsoft, linked them to a few threads in these forums and asked for a refund. I received one. My suggestion to others is to go this route because if microsoft get too many negative claims about this game flooding their support agents I am sure that they will raise the issue of this games massive dysfunction to Ubisoft and they are far better equipped financially to get Ubisoft to fix this ridiculously broken game. This is the last time I preorder a game, and the LAST time I buy a game from Ubisoft, period, that's for sure.