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View Full Version : Major Issues of this epic fail called "for honor"....



masu84
02-24-2017, 11:57 PM
P2P: many disconnects, connection problems. 50% of my 4on4 matches are dominated by disconnects of several other players. If everyone gets kicked out except the host and me … it sucks. Playing with friends is very frustrating: My friends joined my party. I join a game and …. Someone of my friends is not able to join the game or his screen remains black (PS4). Most of the time someone is kicked out of the party. I have to re-invite at least one player after each(!) match. It is just horrible.


Items: Items are deactivated in 1on1 and 2on2 as default. Why? Because items make a huge difference. Players with better items are able to fight longer due to less stamina consumption. Or they do much more damage, get revenge really fast and much more. It’s great that items are deactivated in 1on1 and 2on2. But items are activated in each 4on4 mode. Why? Items make a huge difference in every game mode. If I’m fighting a player which got item level 108 while I got item level 20, it’s a huge disadvantage. A can’t capture a zone if such a player tries to defend. If he is as good as me, items will result in a huge advantage for him. This sucks.
Additionally: Why should i play another character in 4on4 other than my main? It is a huge disadvantage to play with low item level in 4on4.


Skills: Skills are deactivated for 1on1 and 2on2 and this is great. And again: in 4on4 skills will boost the winning team. If you are already winning, you get a higher level and better passive and/or active skills. Additionally most skills are just stupid. Especially the higher tier skills are insane: Oneshotting the whole team? Really? Skills make a huge difference, they are easy to use and they have a huge impact. The game would be much better without skills in 4on4 too.


Environment! 1on1 and 2on2 is dominated by environment. It’s all about the ‘lucky punch’: one player is much better than the other player. The better one is dominating and doing great combos. But then the weaker player hits a single guard break accidentally and he is pushing the enemy into/over/off something and he is dead instantly. Well, some people would say: “don’t fight close to such areas!”. Wow. Most stupid answer ever. Most 1on1 maps are full of traps, spikes, fires, … it is nearly impossible to find a location where such a lucky grab would not result in an instant death. And additionally: 1on1 or 2on2 is starting and the enemy is running to such a location, where a single grab is a guaranteed kill. And he is waiting there. If I would not fight there, we would both wait and …. It’s a draw. A boring draw. I lost some 1on1 just because I failed to counter two(!) guard breaks. And then: rematch on a map with bigger areas to fight and I’m winning 3:1 easily – well, one fight is always on a bridge or something like that…! It’s poor game design to have these ‘lucky punches’. I want to win by doing great combos, by blocking, parrying, … and not by pressing a single key two times and being lucky. Fighting on a small bridge is just a coin flip. Nothing about skill. It is almost impossible to counter each guard break (think about this: enemy might be the host and I might have ping 200 because he has a bad internet connection… wow.).
4on4 is much better at this point because there are much bigger areas and it is possible to fight without being killed instantly by a single guard break.


Whole fighting system sucks. Great combo chains? Never seen such combos. Assassins are spamming a bit. Okay. Most other characters are playing like this:
Guard Break+Heavy Attack
Block everything
Guard Break+Heavy Attack
Block everything
Amazing! Defending is too easy. Even the biggest idiot is able to block most attacks and due to the stupid guard break, which is winning the game due to the awful map design, its just impossible to use combos. The first blocked attack will result in a guard break and a guaranteed hit.
Due to the stupid guard break mechanic, most duels are just based on luck: Which player pressed guard break first.... he will win. Amazing. NOT. Add the connection problems and its 100% luck.

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Some minor, but still stupid "features" of for honor:

Joining games: I can’t decide to join a 4on4 which has not been started yet. Solo players will often join games which have been started a few minutes ago. Joining a match, which is already won/lost for the last 1-2 minutes is just embarrassing.

Bots: I’m in 4on4 queue. Game found. Game is starting. Fresh game. Wow. Lucky. But… why are there 6 bots in this new(!) game? 4on4 finished. No disconnects yet (wow…. lucky day…) but 2 players left. Do you think that each team will get a single bot? Haha! You are playing For Honor! One team is getting two bots and has to fight versus 4 human players. Well, now you think that there is a 4 player party. No. Next game all players are mixed up (=no 4 player party) and again: one team got 2 bots. Who designed this? It is just awful. If 6 players decided to have a rematch, each team should get a single bot – if possible. But not in For Honor.

Players replacing Bots / Bots replacing Players: I fought someone which has been replaced. My enemy was almost dead. Now he is replaced by a full health player which will be teleported somewhere around me. Really?

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Summary:
I really can’t believe that this game claims to be competitive. It is awful. Due to the P2P connection, it is 100% luck who is the host and who got the high ping. It’s not about the player’s skill, it is about items and lucky guard breaks which result into instant kills. Most stupid game design since “No Man’s Sky”. The multiplayer of No Man’s Sky is better than For Honor. Main reason: NO multiplayer is much better than this epic fail.


How to Fix For Honor:

Well, this is not that easy.

Deactivate items in all game modes.
Deactivate skills in all game modes.
Change netcode and add dedicated servers.
Change ALL 1on1 and 2on2 maps and remove most(!) locations where a single guard break is able to kill someone by pushing them into or off anything. Throw kills should be rare and funny. Not the standard gameplay.

Dark Souls 3 PvP is much better than For Honor. And DS3 got a great single player.

The main problem: the core(!) of For Honor, the whole fighting system is okay. There is some potential. But everything else is just crap. I've never seen a game with such a stupid and poor game design. Maps, Menus, Skills, Items.... its just everything bad. Each developer who played his own game once should have noticed this issues.

Sorry but... ... this game is just a 2/10. Nothing more. 2 points for the "okay" graphics. 0 Points for gameplay.

masu84
02-25-2017, 02:56 PM
Hmm no other opinions?

ThePollie
02-25-2017, 03:12 PM
Haha, git gud.

DrExtrem
02-25-2017, 04:27 PM
This game has problems - no one thinks otherwise.

But judging by your tone, you should play something else.


For the sake of trying.

The bots need improvement they are dumb when they could surround an enemy, they will try to poke them through the player.
The bots are incredibly inconsistent - they range from full derp, to full god mode.
Next problem is when bots start to ignore game mechanics like attacking while they are activating revenge mode - they do thinks, the player can not do.

Next problem are the bugs of certain enemies. The shugoki can not be punished after a parry - his guard is back, before I can even land a light attack.
Gear seems to be buggy as well. Please take a look at debuff resistance and bots being able to ignore hit recovery etc.

Dodging is out of control as well.

masu84
02-28-2017, 12:13 PM
No, because your tone is just negative. You present your opinion as a fact and that doesn´t invite for a good conversation, does it?
Well, it's negative because I spent money to buy a game which is just bad. The game doesn't have any positive aspects.

Disconnects and P2P is definitely the end of the whole game.

Matchmaking is bad too: did you ever join a new game (which has not been started yet) in 4-4 solo queue? Nearly impossible.

The basic idea of the game (1-1 fighting) is okay. But everything else is just bad.

You don't think so?
Well then tell me your reasons.

Each duel is dominated by guard break and killing enemies instantly by using the environment. Bad connection makes most guard breaks almost impossible to counter. Being the host is a huge advantage.

Items are just crap. More and more players want to have 4-4 queues with items deactivated.

Just tell me which feature you like ....



Also this read more like a bad review (rant) and not the start of a discussion.

Yea it's a rant. Feel free to argue if your opinion is different to mine.

Obdach01
02-28-2017, 01:27 PM
I have the answer to ALL your questions. Really to all of them.

BECAUSE IT'S A GAME AND IS FUN... not a competition, mate. No one can live of being first in this game... not yet.

And if a game is not fun? Don't try to change it by yourself, so others cannot enjoy it. Just play something else until the issues are resolved. If they are not resolved, and you love the game, write to the devs... not UBI... the devs. And if it is still not resolved (not after two weeks... but after six months), come here make room for your rage and write all the bad things you can think of... because then, you do have all the rights to do so.

Otherwise... I see problems with the game, but I am on a completely different boat here. Two people, two oppinions.

P.S.: one more thing. It would be nice not to pretend that somehting which you can do easily is something the biggest idiot can do. Some of us are just old and not that fast. I for example cannot block everything, and the playstyle you describe is something I can't do.

DrExtrem
02-28-2017, 02:06 PM
Its not zero, because all clients need to be synchronized. That synchronisation is achieved by steady inter co-host communication. That communication is still effected by physics.

Panzer_Cmndr
02-28-2017, 02:10 PM
I agree and I disagree. The game needs a balance pass in a serious way, this would bring about the buttsoreness in many fanbois of certain clases but it gets tiresome seeing the same few characters in every match.

Match Making is a nightmare at this point.

The upgrades make little to no sense (I am reading up on them and watching videos to get a better understanding of this enigma.)

And one of the biggest issues I have in the game is CONNECTIVITY.... I honestly spend more time seeing some sort of ERROR than I do in a match, or if I finally load into a match it is a roll of the dice if I get to finish it.

The player base could mature up a significant amount as well but......

masu84
02-28-2017, 02:29 PM
It's zero as in you have no disadvantage as to when an attack starts. What you see is what you get.
Sure there are flaws in this netcode but saying that ping is an issue, is not right. See it like a turn based game with really short rounds.

Okay, tell me please how this magic is working...

If someone with a bad internet connection is playing for honor in duel against me. If we would ping each other, there would be a response time (=ping) of 200+.

Result: I see his actions, but delayed by 200ms. I did dodge correctly as my client "believes", but his client is showing a hit.

Who is right now ?

The host. Someone is the master and someone is the slave.

Why is there a host? Did you ever play 4-4? If the host is leaving, the game is trying to find a new host within the 7 remaining players.

There is always a host/master and the other players are clients/slaves.

Otherwise the game would split up because my client is showing an enemy which has been hit more often then the other player's client.

And now think about your turn based game with very short rounds: what if the latency is bigger than the time per round? Hm?

masu84
02-28-2017, 02:48 PM
Go to announcements, read ubisofts description of p2p.
I can read some faerie tales too. But as a software developer, I know that faerie tales about P2P are not true.

If the ping is too high, both clients will begin to diverge. Both clients must be set to a defined status. If there is no dedicated server, a client has to overwrite the status of the other client.

We had a Mod in Unreal Tournament 2004 which tried to implement a "what you see is what you get". Result at higher pings: players have been hit through walls due to the synchronized clients: one players dodged the missile correctly. The other one saw the missile hitting the other player. To avoid different states of the same game, one of this realities must be the truth. The one player has been hit ... even if he dodged correctly.

If Ubisoft's "description" of P2P would be correctly, why do most games use expensive dedicated servers then? Just use P2P if there are no problems at all.

But there are huge (!) problems. And you don't get it because you have no clue about client-server-connections!

NitroCheese
02-28-2017, 03:01 PM
Hi all-first and probably last time of posting on this particular forum, just thought I would wade in with an opinion

Agree entirely with OP-bought and have given the game a thorough week of play, and have been left very annoyed that I have parted with cash for it.

Partly my fault, had I researched and found out that Ubisoft were not implementing dedicated servers I would have steered clear completely. What makes any company think that it can build a sustainable game with a growing community using p2p is beyond my comprehension.

I have not played it as long as some on here, but in the time I have played, I have noted that several characters need rebalancing-in some cases some mismatches are borderline hilarious, and some abilities just leave me scratching my head (being pulled and thrown great distances over a cliff which is nowere near for example-might as well play a wrestling game!). Also the time taken to find and get into a match is a bit too long (which makes the disconnecting all the more annoying!)

Some of my pals do love the game, but a good half of my friends list have already joined me in discontinued play of For Honour. Ulitmately Ubisoft will probably resolve alot of the superficial stuff and the game will be very playable, but until the server thing is resolved I dont see a point in playing a game that disconnects as much as this. Such a shame as FH had the makings of something truly great, why did Ubisoft go for the cheap option when looking long term?

I wish all the best to those warriors that are carrying on with this game though

Peace out Y'all!

Pope138
02-28-2017, 03:14 PM
"Epic fail?"
I mean, it's cool if you dislike the game and have harsh criticisms of it. But we both know it isn't an "epic fail." An overreaction like this, as the title of your thread, let's everyone know that you aren't interested in a serious discussion. At least it saved me from reading that wall of text.

Charmzzz
02-28-2017, 03:53 PM
As a Software developer it shouldn't be a problem for you to prove that lag actually is a problem then. I am looking forward to your indepth analysis.
I didn't experience any ping related issues myself so far. For me every game feels pretty good ping wise.
People with high pings report that the whole game gets slowed down, and not host advantage.

Anyway, make a quick video about how ping affects your game and ubisoft sees what the problem is and start working on it. So far you are just ranting without much substance.. And also accusing ubisoft to lie.

As a network engineer I can assure you that P2P is a really bad choice for any competitive Game. This has a couple of reasons and I cannot find anything from Ubi (like you mentioned) that explains how they solved those issues.

This is what I have found: https://support.ubi.com/en-Us/Faqs/000026270/For-Honor-Online-System-Breakdown-FH-PC-XB1-PS4

Their model looks good, but it does NOT explain how it works if one of those players has a much higher ping to all the others. Only vague info, a "simulation" running on all clients, constantly sending data to all the other clients? WTF, I have to check out later how much traffic For Honor is generating.

Anyway, if this high-ping player hits you in HIS simulation, but you evaded on your machine. What is gonna happen? In my imagination the client has to check the other simulations (in a ms timeframe, sure...) and update based upon which simulation "seems" to be the most accurate one. Seriously? In a competitive Game? And what about 1on1? Which is the right Simulation there?

Only questions opening up after reading, no explanation...

DrExtrem
02-28-2017, 04:06 PM
It's zero as in you have no disadvantage as to when an attack starts. What you see is what you get.
Sure there are flaws in this netcode but saying that ping is an issue, is not right. See it like a turn based game with really short rounds.

That has already been disproven using high speed cameras. Even between users m, using the same provider, in the same city, the base latency was @ about 100 ms.

There is a nice little video floating around on YouTube.

masu84
02-28-2017, 04:36 PM
Anyway, make a quick video about how ping affects your game and ubisoft sees what the problem is and start working on it. So far you are just ranting without much substance.. And also accusing ubisoft to lie.

Without being able to see my ping as an absolute number (ps4 player here), I can't analyze anything correctly and in depth. And believe this: they don't show your real ping because they know that even the biggest idiots would realize that the ping is a huge problem.

All I know is that all(!) connected clients need to be synchronized every xxx milliseconds.

This are just the very basic things about connections of several computers. There must be always a host, a machine which defines the current state of the process in case of different states of the clients.

The main problem:
To block several attacks, each player got a small timing window: something around 400 milliseconds for example.
The enemy is pressing "light attack". Due to the high ping (example: 200) this will happen:
Enemy light attack
200ms later: signal arrives, I see his action, I will dodge.
200ms later, his client will show my dodge.

But he would hit within 400ms. So he would hit me right now.

Possible solution: game is trying to fix the ping and my client is sending my whole status.

400ms after he performed his attack, his client will get the information, that I dodged 200ms ago. But he couldn't see it. Maybe the clients are now interpolating both realities this may result in such problems as a described above (unreal tournament example).
But: my time to react is still smaller than it would be if the ping between my enemy and my ps4 would be lower.

Due to this fact, the timing window is always different. And I don't know it. I will be hit once, twice, ... before I found out, what is the current timing window.

P2P games might be funny, successful, ... But never ever competitive.

Just think about old-school online shooters like quake3, unreal tournament,.... Ping is and was everything. Those games wouldn't be playable using P2P.

Mia.Nora
03-07-2017, 12:36 AM
Quote correctly next time. People lost their doctor title because they did not quote right.

Your. Ping is around 0 because everyone is the host.

You are the one who needs to check his facts before shtposting. There are professional netcode analysis for For Honor on internet, where they measured minimum latency in 1v1 connection of 2 local computers to be over 100ms. And it is not in the form of a lock-step latency either.

Games with inbuilt latency use lockstep to prevent desynch problems between versions of the client running. For Honor does not have that.

And no matter how much they may paint it with sugarcoating, this game DOES have a single host. That diagram that shows each player as host is just PR. Otherwise there would not be any issues when host dc/ragequit; but here we are facing the reality where hosts can use 3rd party software to even kick people out of games.

BranMandragoran
03-10-2017, 04:42 AM
Hmm no other opinions?

I think you suck at the game. Judging by your novella, it seems quite obvious.

BranMandragoran
03-10-2017, 04:50 AM
Each duel is dominated by guard break and killing enemies instantly by using the environment. Bad connection makes most guard breaks almost impossible to counter. Being the host is a huge advantage.

this is how I know you suck at the game. Counter breaking is too easy right now. Saying that the each duel is dominated by gb immediately lets me know that you are terrible at the game. if there was one thing you should have learned that would help you to not be terrible is to learn how to counter guard break. You have no idea how to play the game, so why would anyone take your opinions about gameplay seriously? Next you'll say that Orochi is too OP. Bunch of scrublords thinking that the game is the reason they suck.

guffffff
03-10-2017, 11:16 AM
Deactivate items in all game modes.
Deactivate skills in all game modes.
Change netcode and add dedicated servers.


Sounds good. Don't hold your breath :cool: