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View Full Version : For Honor: A fundamentally amazing game with 3 fundamentally awful design decisions



YOGZULA
02-23-2017, 07:13 AM
REVENGE A great idea for combating ganking and giving players a fighting chance in 1vX battles. However, there is no good reason that it should be gained through 1v1 combat. I think it's obvious and without need for explanation that revenge generating in 1v1 fights is just a mistake. I'm surprised there isn't more dialogue about this and I'm surprised that it hasn't been nerfed already.

REVIVING The bleed out timer is way too long, the time it takes to revive a player is way too short, and getting up with 100% health is absurd. It's like they had 3 core numbers to tweak in order to balance this mechanic, and they got all 3 of them terribly wrong. I would much rather see a 20-30 second bleed out timer, 5-6 second revive time, and 30% health on being revived. Possibly more or less depending on how long you've been bleeding out.

Alternatively, how about this for a suggestion - Keep the 60 second bleed out timer. However, after 20-30 seconds of a player being in the bleed out state they become vulnerable to executions. Add a new set of execution animations that can be used on players who are downed in this way. I think that would be pretty cool, but still, increase the revive timer to 5-6 seconds and there is no way in hell people should be revived with 100% health. Maybe if attached to some kind of perk, but as a base value? No way.

UNTECHABLE GUARD BREAKS Here is a game where everything can be reacted to. Everything, that is, except for odd instances of untechable guard breaks. Notably following being parried, but also during other times such as being caught in the middle of an attack or in a guard break animation of your own. Because I think this point needs a bit more clarification, i'll touch on each point individually.

Parrying.A mechanic that is fundamental to a game such as this, but does it need to be so immensely powerful? Should a defensive option lead into such devastating, guarenteed damage to your opponent - or at times, instant death? Being able to follow a parry with an untechable guard break is absurd. Parrying causing heavy stamina damage and protecting you from taking any damage yourself is fine. Some characters can follow up on parries in unique ways that reward small amounts of damage, which is also fine.

Being able to follow up a parry with an untechable guard break which, as we know, guarentees a heavy attack or throw on every character in the game is insane. There is no reason for this. Parrying should be rewarding, but not THAT rewarding. Parrying should have follow up opportunities that allow the defender to become the aggressor, but it should not be a guaranteed follow up that the attacker can not react to. This sort of untechable guard break is a cancer to this game and is forcing players to be overly defensive in a meta that will become stale very quickly.

Attacking. - Ever get guard broken when you were half way through an attack? I have. I'm sure we all have. Why this interaction even exists confuses me enough to begin with, as a guard break is supposed to counter someone in guard mode, not a player half way through an attack animation, but what's worse is that you CAN'T TECH this kind of guard break. Have fun getting thrown off a ledge or eating a free heavy attack.

The first two points of this post are only really relevant to 4v4 modes. This third point is relevant to every mode and 1v1 especially. Guard break is a necessary mechanic, but its current implementation is frustrating and not very fun to be on the receiving end of if you can not react to it like you can to literally everything else in the game.

FailOfHDDVD
02-23-2017, 07:20 AM
REVENGE
The current state of the game allows you to gain revenge even during 1v1, that is insanely stupid from gameplay point of view as you get rewarded for bad play and punishes skilled players.
Please make it only gain in 1v2 at lower amount, and increases as more opponents join in.

REVIVING
Reviving in a second is a joke. That's a no brainer.

Parrying
Parrying is WAY TOO EASY when we have indicators on.
Parrying should not be easy otherwise everyone will just wait for it to come.

Toast_Addict
02-23-2017, 07:26 AM
Revenge: Find it good as is. Rarely shows up in 1v1s for me. Seems better now than during betas.

Reviving: absolutely agree

Un-techable GB: match the pace of the game. If they hand out insta-kills, a little guaranteed damage isnt too unreasonable.


REVENGE
The current state of the game allows you to gain revenge even during 1v1, that is insanely stupid from gameplay point of view as you get rewarded for bad play and punishes skilled players.
Please make it only gain in 1v2 at lower amount, and increases as more opponents join in.

It rewards skilled defense more than bad play..... If the opponent is just spamming un-timely attacks and you can guard them, well, expect revenge....

Viktorius_III
02-23-2017, 07:28 AM
sadly... breaking gb after parry is possible... bots lvl 3 do it... and sadly even cheaters can:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XijyLanX2A
i dont think that it should be blockable after parry... otherwise there would never be an end to fights.

Only one real mechanic needs to be cut:
dodging when out of stamina! A warden with max movementspeed can not catch a out of stamina PK if she just dodges back. Even his far reaching running strike wont hit! Completly ******ed :D

Ryumanjisen
02-23-2017, 07:40 AM
If you make all gbs techable, then this game will be ONLY a matter of reflexes... even more than it is now. And that would be... absurd.

Nyghtwolf007
02-23-2017, 08:06 AM
The only way to get revenge in a 1v1 is with the feat. In regards to this I think it is fine. I've only ever gotten it at the end of the fight and used it with my last attack to counter/kill my oponent

YOGZULA
02-23-2017, 08:07 AM
If you make all gbs techable, then this game will be ONLY a matter of reflexes... even more than it is now. And that would be... absurd.

You mean like every other fighting game?

Human reflexes aren't perfect. In order to deal damage, you should need to attack. The winning strategy should not be to turtle into parries for free damage.

YOGZULA
02-23-2017, 08:09 AM
The only way to get revenge in a 1v1 is with the feat. In regards to this I think it is fine. I've only ever gotten it at the end of the fight and used it with my last attack to counter/kill my oponent

Incorrect. I've had revenge activate in duel mode where gear is disabled, even... plenty of times. It's infinitely easier to gain it in dominion with gear that makes you get it quicker.

C.E.TON
02-23-2017, 08:16 AM
Alright bro, look you make one good point. The revive at 100% HP is a lil on the crazy side. Here is what you gota do. What ever class you are playing drop it and pic one of the 3 assassins. I say 3 because the berserker wail fun is not top tear like the rest. If your already playing one of them and your salty then its time to call it a day man, or hit the bots and do a bit of practicing. O yah that leads me to another point. The revenge mode in 1v1. It makes sense for a lot of characters. Like the Berserker. Trust me man just pick up an assassin and start wrecking MO-Fo's.

feuerundblut
02-23-2017, 08:17 AM
REVENGE
The current state of the game allows you to gain revenge even during 1v1, that is insanely stupid from gameplay point of view as you get rewarded for bad play and punishes skilled players.
Please make it only gain in 1v2 at lower amount, and increases as more opponents join in.

REVIVING
Reviving in a second is a joke. That's a no brainer.

Parrying
Parrying is WAY TOO EASY when we have indicators on.
Parrying should not be easy otherwise everyone will just wait for it to come.

At high level, it shows way too often cause you can equip gear to speed up getting some on attacks or defense. I have seen some players getting revenge in less than 10s in 1vs1 and being in a loop revenge after that. Just plain stupid. When this happens, I just leave them be to avoid screaming at my TV.

Ryumanjisen
02-23-2017, 08:41 AM
You mean like every other fighting game?

Human reflexes aren't perfect. In order to deal damage, you should need to attack. The winning strategy should not be to turtle into parries for free damage.

Reflexes are not the main skill you need for a fighting game. Depends on the game, of course, but generally they are not so important. Mind games and footsies are what you need. You can have perfect reflexes but if you can't read your opponent, you're going to loose.

Footsies are nonexistant in this game. And only the Warden can play mindgames... that's why he's the top tier character right now.