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Viktorius_III
02-23-2017, 07:04 AM
This is a heated discussions between those who say "everything is allowed in war" and those who say "its a game and the way you are playing is causing others to have less fun".

I understand both sides and i try to explain the other side WHY they are so outraged.
I will try not to let my own opinion shine through here. But keep in mind im just a human and i hope you can see my effort even if i sound "salty" or angry...

To the "honor" group:
The thing is... its allowed. Its as allowed as using granadelaunchers in mw2 or as allowed as zerg rushing a new player in starcraft. This is what multiplayer is. It might not (always) be fun for you, but as long as the devs dont make strict rules for it. Its allowed, no matter the name of the game. I understand your frustiation of wanting to see how many enemies you can kill in a "gauntlet" (avs3,4,5,... coming one after another) but not everyone wants that. And it is their right to play the cheesiest of tactics (revengeshieldbash infinite stunlock combo/turtleing/running away with full movementspeed peacekeeper) no matter how much it enrages you and kills the fun for your whole team.

To the "no honor" group:
Understand, that most people dont play this game for competative reasons. They want to have fun. And while you obviously think that winning by any means IS fun, others dont think that way (a perfect example for you is cheating. you might say it takes no skill, but cheaters will say "you could download the cheats as well" oh and yes there are cheats, for all of u who have ridiculed ppl for saving they use cheats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XijyLanX2A)
Just because you want to find the perfect way of winning the game, doesnt mean the neemy does as well... and since the matchmaking is far from perfect, absolute destroyers will face complete noobs sometimes... (i have played against and with ppl far outside my skillvl)


TL;DR:
Both sides have their reasons for their viewpoint... i myself am one of them. dont hate the other group for their views and either mute the chat, or leave the session if you absolutly cant stand an opponents game strategy.


PS: since there are no "rankeds and normals" i also dont know a solution... but since i play lol and ppl play like in ranked even if 3 enemies are afk...
some ppl just want to see the world burn and dont care for others :D

Last thought:
If you know you are winning, dont let your enemies suffer extra just for your amusement. You dont HAVE to be a **** to new players.
" Inflict not on an enemy every injury in your power, for he may afterwards become your friend"
- Moslih Eddin Saadi


I hope i was able to at least help SOME players out there understand the opposite side.
Have a great day :)

Viktorius_III
02-23-2017, 10:25 AM
So sad to see how many views and threads are created by saying "the other side is just the worst"... its like in politics... for reason and calm understanding for the other side is noone around...

Rhamez
02-23-2017, 11:01 AM
This is a heated discussions between those who say "everything is allowed in war" and those who say "its a game and the way you are playing is causing others to have less fun".

I understand both sides and i try to explain the other side WHY they are so outraged.
I will try not to let my own opinion shine through here. But keep in mind im just a human and i hope you can see my effort even if i sound "salty" or angry...

To the "honor" group:
The thing is... its allowed. Its as allowed as using granadelaunchers in mw2 or as allowed as zerg rushing a new player in starcraft. This is what multiplayer is. It might not (always) be fun for you, but as long as the devs dont make strict rules for it. Its allowed, no matter the name of the game. I understand your frustiation of wanting to see how many enemies you can kill in a "gauntlet" (avs3,4,5,... coming one after another) but not everyone wants that. And it is their right to play the cheesiest of tactics (revengeshieldbash infinite stunlock combo/turtleing/running away with full movementspeed peacekeeper) no matter how much it enrages you and kills the fun for your whole team.

To the "no honor" group:
Understand, that most people dont play this game for competative reasons. They want to have fun. And while you obviously think that winning by any means IS fun, others dont think that way (a perfect example for you is cheating. you might say it takes no skill, but cheaters will say "you could download the cheats as well" oh and yes there are cheats, for all of u who have ridiculed ppl for saving they use cheats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XijyLanX2A)
Just because you want to find the perfect way of winning the game, doesnt mean the neemy does as well... and since the matchmaking is far from perfect, absolute destroyers will face complete noobs sometimes... (i have played against and with ppl far outside my skillvl)


TL;DR:
Both sides have their reasons for their viewpoint... i myself am one of them. dont hate the other group for their views and either mute the chat, or leave the session if you absolutly cant stand an opponents game strategy.


PS: since there are no "rankeds and normals" i also dont know a solution... but since i play lol and ppl play like in ranked even if 3 enemies are afk...
some ppl just want to see the world burn and dont care for others :D

Last thought:
If you know you are winning, dont let your enemies suffer extra just for your amusement. You dont HAVE to be a **** to new players.
" Inflict not on an enemy every injury in your power, for he may afterwards become your friend"
- Moslih Eddin Saadi


I hope i was able to at least help SOME players out there understand the opposite side.
Have a great day :)

In your "to honor" players section you complained about combos in addition to 1v1s. Expecting people to change their classes playstyle to appease a group of players in addition to 1v1ing only is even more ridiculous. I will generally wait the first match of a 2v2 just for practice sake, but I am always on guard. If anything resembling normal play shows all bets are off and its a fight to win, but this is NEVER to be expected in a 4v4.

You see, you have to look at it this way. The game in no way forces or even recommends this code of "honor". It doesn't matter if people don't play for competitive reasons. It's more reasonable for "honor" players to adapt than to expect the rest of the playerbase to adhere to 3rd party rules they are not obligated to follow. People came up with this because like in any game getting outnumbered is frustrating. That, and the game has "honor" in the title so people larp it to death. You are asking people to consider going out of their way to play in a manner that wasn't intended to be played otherwise these other modes wouldn't exist as they are. There is no hate except from the people who spam "NO HONOR YOU ***HOLE" but this exists in every game in the form of "1v1 me" after losing a teamfight. 1vX isn't cheesy and even insinuating it is, is merely salt being thrown, as teamwork is the essence of all multiplayer games. There is zero teamwork letting your ally die when he is facing a stronger opponent.

TLDR: There is no "reasoning" for this "Honor" bs. Being a good sport is one thing, but that generally means not being a **** in chat, which generally comes from players complaining about getting 1v2/3/4d or complaining about getting thrown off a cliff.

Te_Wheke
02-23-2017, 11:13 AM
I don't mind when I have face a 2v1 as that's my enemies choice to fight that way, it just annoys me in Elimination or Brawl when I've been fighting someone 1v1 for a little while and asshat team mate coming leaping in flinging attacks wildly to steal the kill - usually hitting me as much as the opponent. If you insist on getting involve be useful and go for GB instead and just mashing attacks to pad you stats.

Skirmish and Dominion are a complete free for all though so never have any complaints there.

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 11:14 AM
In your "to honor" players section you complained about combos in addition to 1v1s. Expecting people to change their classes playstyle to appease a group of players in addition to 1v1ing only is even more ridiculous. I will generally wait the first match of a 2v2 just for practice sake, but I am always on guard. If anything resembling normal play shows all bets are off and its a fight to win, but this is NEVER to be expected in a 4v4.

You see, you have to look at it this way. The game in no way forces or even recommends this code of "honor". It doesn't matter if people don't play for competitive reasons. It's more reasonable for "honor" players to adapt than to expect the rest of the playerbase to adhere to 3rd party rules they are not obligated to follow. People came up with this because like in any game getting outnumbered is frustrating. That, and the game has "honor" in the title so people larp it to death. You are asking people to consider going out of their way to play in a manner that wasn't intended to be played otherwise these other modes wouldn't exist as they are. There is no hate except from the people who spam "NO HONOR YOU ***HOLE" but this exists in every game in the form of "1v1 me" after losing a teamfight. 1vX isn't cheesy and even insinuating it is, is merely salt being thrown, as teamwork is the essence of all multiplayer games. There is zero teamwork letting your ally die when he is facing a stronger opponent.

TLDR: There is no "reasoning" for this "Honor" bs. Being a good sport is one thing, but that generally means not being a **** in chat, which generally comes from players complaining about getting 1v2/3/4d or complaining about getting thrown off a cliff.

I can see that you're biased toward the cheap tactics.Which is fair and square,but understand that not everybody cares only about victory.Someone,like me,cares more about how you earned that victory,rather than the victory itself.That's why i push people back if they are near a cliff.That's why I let people recover their position if the fight cornered them.That's why I don't spam anything and never gank.

I'm no one to tell others how to play,but this is my code.You're free to ignore It,just don't cry if you(ally) gank me in my duel and I hit you in the back.That was my duel,you have no right to interrupt It.And don't cry if I'm the last man in elimination vs4 and i run wasting your time.You refuse fair fights?Enjoy run simulator then.

m1y4gi
02-23-2017, 11:17 AM
In a MP-title all what players can do to win, players will do to win.

Rhamez
02-23-2017, 11:24 AM
I can see that you're biased toward the cheap tactics.Which is fair and square,but understand that not everybody cares only about victory.Someone,like me,cares more about how you earned that victory,rather than the victory itself.That's why i push people back if they are near a cliff.That's why I let people recover their position if the fight cornered them.That's why I don't spam anything and never gank.

I'm no one to tell others how to play,but this is my code.You're free to ignore It,just don't cry if you(ally) gank me in my duel and I hit you in the back.That was my duel,you have no right to interrupt It.And don't cry if I'm the last man in elimination vs4 and i run wasting your time.You refuse fair fights?Enjoy run simulator then.

Negative, as I said I will generally obey it in 2v2 but it doesn't exist at all in 4v4, and you have a point limit as well as base defense you have to worry about. There is nothing "cheap" about 1v2s.


Which is fair and square,but understand that not everybody cares only about victory

Then play AI. What else do you want to hear from people on this?


That's why i push people back if they are near a cliff.That's why I let people recover their position if the fight cornered them.That's why I don't spam anything and never gank.


This goes even further beyond the whining about outnumbering. You are now PURPOSEFULLY letting a player recover from their mistakes. This is ALL ON YOU at this point. YOU are making this choice and there is nothing honorable about intentionally avoiding exploiting peoples mistakes in a fighting game. If you want to RP, there are custom games and 1v1s.


I'm no one to tell others how to play,but this is my code.You're free to ignore It,just don't cry if you(ally) gank me in my duel and I hit you in the back.That was my duel,you have no right to interrupt It.And don't cry if I'm the last man in elimination vs4 and i run wasting your time.You refuse fair fights?Enjoy run simulator then.

Go play 1v1s only. Really. If this is your thought process it goes beyond wanting "honor" and its nothing more than the whining and flailing of a salty ****head. You are purposefully ruining the game of 3 others because you are incapable of outplaying multiple people. Also, nice job showing what your main class is. You are, in fact, telling others how to play. If it was merely "YOUR code" then that would mean you don't expect others to adhere to it. This whole "WAHHHH 1v1 ME ONLY" rant makes a whole lot more sense knowing you are an assassin main.

LinkZeppeloyd
02-23-2017, 11:26 AM
In a MP-title all what players can do to win, players will do to win.

It comes down to this, always, in any MP online game. Always. It just does. There's no getting around it except maybe having some sort of split queue. Except, the same people who should be in the "competitive" queue wind up in the "casual" queue. Winning is more fun than losing. It just is, there's no way around it, and it is a problem for all online MP games.

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 11:36 AM
Negative, as I said I will generally obey it in 2v2 but it doesn't exist at all in 4v4, and you have a point limit as well as base defense you have to worry about. There is nothing "cheap" about 1v2s.



Then play AI. What else do you want to hear from people on this?



This goes even further beyond the whining about outnumbering. You are now PURPOSEFULLY letting a player recover from their mistakes. This is ALL ON YOU at this point. YOU are making this choice and there is nothing honorable about intentionally avoiding exploiting peoples mistakes in a fighting game. If you want to RP, there are custom games and 1v1s.



Go play 1v1s only. Really. If this is your thought process it goes beyond wanting "honor" and its nothing more than the whining and flailing of a salty ****head. You are purposefully ruining the game of 3 others because you are incapable of outplaying multiple people. Also, nice job showing what your main class is. You are, in fact, telling others how to play. If it was merely "YOUR code" then that would mean you don't expect others to adhere to it. This whole "WAHHHH 1v1 ME ONLY" rant makes a whole lot more sense knowing you are an assassin main.

Nice fail on the whole line man.First,I said that no one can dictate how to play the game.Nor I,not you.Yet you say "Go play Vs ai if you don't want to cheap your way to victory".

Second: 1v1 is what I play 99% of the time.But quests are mostly in 4v4 modes,so I'm speaking for the few games that I've done out of 1v1.

Third:after tryng pk and orochi I found my main in kensei.Howewer,in those dm matches I use pk,since speed It what matters against cheesers.But I miss something...from when maining an assassin is shameful?Hipocrisy at his finest.

Go on pretending that ganking is the right thing to do,your w/r may suffer if you ever dare to fight fair.

inthegamewayne
02-23-2017, 11:46 AM
Do people really think that there should be some form of code of conduct on the gameplay mechanics that dictate how people purchased the game should play? I wonder how many historic battles ever went down when the people on the field said "Nah leave him, he's fighting 1v1" or just actually went up and stabbed them in the back to help their mate.

This whole topic is like the DZ PvE/PvP arguments and salty complaints on The Division. Ganking happens....In every PvP (more than 1v1) game....ever.

Rhamez
02-23-2017, 11:47 AM
Nice fail on the whole line man.First,I said that no one can dictate how to play the game.Nor I,not you.Yet you say "Go play Vs ai if you don't want to cheap your way to victory".

Second: 1v1 is what I play 99% of the time.But quests are mostly in 4v4 modes,so I'm speaking for the few games that I've done out of 1v1.

Third:after tryng pk and orochi I found my main in kensei.Howewer,in those dm matches I use pk,since speed It what matters against cheesers.But I miss something...from when maining an assassin is shameful?Hipocrisy at his finest.

Go on pretending that ganking is the right thing to do,your w/r may suffer if you ever dare to fight fair.


Nice fail on the whole line man.First,I said that no one can dictate how to play the game.Nor I,not you.Yet you say "Go play Vs ai if you don't want to cheap your way to victory".


Just because you aren't capable of overcoming something doesn't mean its cheap.


Second: 1v1 is what I play 99% of the time.But quests are mostly in 4v4 modes,so I'm speaking for the few games that I've done out of 1v1.

So those very few non 1v1s you play tilt you so much that you cannot stomach finishing them without complaining about honor?


Third:after tryng pk and orochi I found my main in kensei.Howewer,in those dm matches I use pk,since speed It what matters against cheesers.But I miss something...from when maining an assassin is shameful?Hipocrisy at his finest.

Playing an assassin isn't shameful, but they are the notorious ones for running away and complaining about honor. Do you know what hypocrisy* is?


Go on pretending that ganking is the right thing to do,your w/r may suffer if you ever dare to fight fair.

There is no "right" way to play this game, which is exactly what I am trying to convey. Play the game the way the match develops. You even say that we can't dictate the gameplay of others. So why are you here in this thread if you already know the answer to this whole debate? And last but not least there it is folks. The infamous "1v1 me, you know you would lose thats why you gank!" that every single game has in one form or another.

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 11:48 AM
Do people really think that there should be some form of code of conduct on the gameplay mechanics that dictate how people purchased the game should play? I wonder how many historic battles ever went down when the people on the field said "Nah leave him, he's fighting 1v1" or just actually went up and stabbed them in the back to help their mate.

This whole topic is like the DZ PvE/PvP arguments and salty complaints on The Division. Ganking happens....In every PvP (more than 1v1) game....ever.

Real life has no respawn or rez tho.

inthegamewayne
02-23-2017, 11:51 AM
There is no "right" way to play this game, which is exactly what I am trying to convey. Play the game the way the match develops. You even say that we can't dictate the gameplay of others. So why are you here in this thread if you already know the answer to this whole debate? And last but not least there it is folks. The infamous "1v1 me, you know you would lose thats why you gank!" that every single game has in one form or another.

I agree with this, it is salt everywhere. I understand that it's frustrating but I don't understand the complaint about it. This isn't like the balancing issues or anything, it's just players upset for losing.

inthegamewayne
02-23-2017, 11:53 AM
Real life has no respawn or rez tho.

Exactly, this is just a game. Purchased by people that will play how they want. Adapt & overcome, or turn in your sword and shield and play something else (not you specifically, just players in general).

m1y4gi
02-23-2017, 11:58 AM
It comes down to this, always, in any MP online game. Always.

exactly.

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 12:00 PM
Just because you aren't capable of overcoming something doesn't mean its cheap.



So those very few non 1v1s you play tilt you so much that you cannot stomach finishing them without complaining about honor?



Playing an assassin isn't shameful, but they are the notorious ones for running away and complaining about honor. Do you know what hypocrisy* is?



There is no "right" way to play this game, which is exactly what I am trying to convey. Play the game the way the match develops. You even say that we can't dictate the gameplay of others. So why are you here in this thread if you already know the answer to this whole debate? And last but not least there it is folks. The infamous "1v1 me, you know you would lose thats why you gank!" that every single game has in one form or another.

1)What is cheap or not is a subjective matter.

2)Tilt?No,it's just sad to see people lacking confidence in their skill,they prefer tactics over fights.

3)You can't judge people on what class they play.Sure some assassins run away from even their shadow,but like I said I use them to outrun the gankers,not to run from duels.

4)I can ask you the same question.We are here to express opinions.In the end,what matters is our enjoyment of the game.I enjoy duels,I'll not engage in any xv1 situation because I don't want to give at someone that I deem dishonorable an easy win.Just like you become my enemy if you interrupt my duel.I play the game for my enjoyment,without dictating anything:free to break my code,I'll just act accordingly,ranked or normal.

Flello
02-23-2017, 12:06 PM
Why is this even a thing? Why are there even discussions about it? Just because the title is called 'For Honor'... it's just the same as a player using a pistol in Call of Duty, or only gunning down a player when there are no other players in the vicinity. It's just plain stupid.

I will do whatever the game allows me to do in all modes. Like many people have said before, if you want honour, then go play 1v1.

Stanislav2233
02-23-2017, 12:07 PM
This "HONOR" idea will ruin the game.

GIVE THOSE WHO LOVE "HONOR DUELS" TOURNAMENT MODE SO THEY DON'T FEEL LONELY IN 1x1 MODE AND STOP RUINING THE GAME!!

1. If you want a duel -> go 1x1 mode.
2. Brawl and Elimination modes are named like that FOR REASON. These are team modes where the smartest and сunning win! These are not duels! If there will be only duels in all modes it will be BORING and people leave! Gameplay must be different to stay interesting for a long time!
3. If you say you have nothing to loose you are WRONG!
People LOVE when their team WINS! And being a BAD team member makes your team LOOSE and makes your teammates UNHAPPY.
4. Many people complain that DEFENSIVE gameplay is too strong! Devs gave you perfect solution for that!
What team usually wins? The one that stays together and go for objectives!

When you play 2x2 your goal is NOT to play defensive duels. but beat your opponent FAST and finish the rest opp 2vs1. Or they will do this against YOU! It's made to play offensive!

When you play 4x4 you goal is to play AS A TEAM! Beat your opponents fast to capture points (offensive gameplay)! Do NOT run after running off opponents - capture points! Stay alive and capture points! Play as a TEAM and OUTSMART your opponents!

5. Think about playing shooters, basketball, WoW Arena 2x2 or battleground or any other team game AS HONORABLE DUELS. That's ridiculous!

Rhamez
02-23-2017, 12:13 PM
1)What is cheap or not is a subjective matter.

2)Tilt?No,it's just sad to see people lacking confidence in their skill,they prefer tactics over fights.

3)You can't judge people on what class they play.Sure some assassins run away from even their shadow,but like I said I use them to outrun the gankers,not to run from duels.

4)I can ask you the same question.We are here to express opinions.In the end,what matters is our enjoyment of the game.I enjoy duels,I'll not engage in any xv1 situation because I don't want to give at someone that I deem dishonorable an easy win.Just like you become my enemy if you interrupt my duel.I play the game for my enjoyment,without dictating anything:free to break my code,I'll just act accordingly,ranked or normal.


What is cheap or not is a subjective matter.

At this point what else is there to say? Believe what you want I guess.


Tilt?No,it's just sad to see people lacking confidence in their skill,they prefer tactics over fights.
We're edging that realm of whining more and more. There is no correlation between lacking confidence and not wanting to sit there and waste time 1v1ing as the dominion points stack up or someone is running around ressing their team. If we want to go down that route, I would say the lack of confidence directly relates to the amount of people complaining about others interrupting their 1v1s. Why aren't you confident enough to take on a 1v2 or have the situational awareness to know when to retreat or regroup? You even get an OP ability called revenge to aid in this. And for preferring tactics over fights... What? Is that seriously your argument? That people who go for the "tactical" (if you want to call it that) game mode over the 1v1 fights want a tactical approach to the game rather than dueling?


You can't judge people on what class they play.Sure some assassins run away from even their shadow,but like I said I use them to outrun the gankers,not to run from duels.

I am not judging your class, I am judging your complaints on honor. It coincidentally just so happens that you also play the class that a majority of pro-honor players play because they excel at doing what their name entails, picking off players 1v1 and/or escaping. Perhaps there is a relation here?


I can ask you the same question.We are here to express opinions.In the end,what matters is our enjoyment of the game.I enjoy duels,I'll not engage in any xv1 situation because I don't want to give at someone that I deem dishonorable an easy win.Just like you become my enemy if you interrupt my duel.I play the game for my enjoyment,without dictating anything:free to break my code,I'll just act accordingly,ranked or normal.

So basically your opinion is you want to play with honor, but you state that you know you can't dictate the gameplay of others. That's great. Debate over. But you add that if it doesn't go YOUR way, then YOU will be the one to be as much of a **** as possible. That IS attempting to dictate others behavior, and most importantly and ironically, this is what hypocrisy is.

Dude_of_Valor
02-23-2017, 12:18 PM
For me as long as you don't cheat then anything goes. This is true for all game formats.

Now if I play 2v2 then I will wait if I happen to win my duel and see how my opponent fights.

However should I be ganged up on (which is perfectly fine) then I will use the same tactic.

When it comes to 4v4 then you press home your advantage, especially in Dominion. It is no different to playing COD etc.

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 12:23 PM
So basically your opinion is you want to play with honor, but you state that you know you can't dictate the gameplay of others. That's great. Debate over. But you add that if it doesn't go YOUR way, then YOU will be the one to be as much of a **** as possible. That IS attempting to dictate others behavior, and most importantly and ironically, this is what hypocrisy is.

If you come and interrupt MY duel,you are interfering with my gameplay.If I would just run around hitting my ganking teammates,you would have a point.I'm **** if you act like a **** and ruin my experience.I don't see how I'm dictating others what to do if I'm just defending my right to end the duel.It' the third player that is tryng to dictate an unfair fight.

inthegamewayne
02-23-2017, 12:27 PM
If you come and interrupt MY duel,you are interfering with my gameplay.If I would just run around hitting my ganking teammates,you would have a point.I'm **** if you act like a **** and ruin my experience.I don't see how I'm dictating others what to do if I'm just defending my right to end the duel.It' the third player that is tryng to dictate an unfair fight.

If you are playing anything other than 1v1 though then this has to be expected as part of the game. You cannot expect people to leave you alone in a multiplayer arena because it upsets you if you get shanked in the back.

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 12:37 PM
If you are playing anything other than 1v1 though then this has to be expected as part of the game. You cannot expect people to leave you alone in a multiplayer arena because it upsets you if you get shanked in the back.

In fact I expect this to happen.Like I said,if the enemy ganks me,I just run.If an ally does it,he will be backstabbed by me.No rule is against ganking,just like no rule impose it.And since this player is blocking my duel,I will punish him.Hopefully he will avoid to gank me in the next rounds.

Rhamez
02-23-2017, 12:37 PM
If you come and interrupt MY duel,you are interfering with my gameplay.If I would just run around hitting my ganking teammates,you would have a point.I'm **** if you act like a **** and ruin my experience.I don't see how I'm dictating others what to do if I'm just defending my right to end the duel.It' the third player that is tryng to dictate an unfair fight.

Let's say you are 1v1ing X on the A point. Its now contested. Why should RandomPlayer1 have to sit there and wait for you to draw out a fight as to not hurt your feefees when you require that point to win?


In fact I expect this to happen.Like I said,if the enemy ganks me,I just run.If an ally does it,he will be backstabbed by me.No rule is against ganking,just like no rule impose it.And since this player is blocking my duel,I will punish him.Hopefully he will avoid to gank me in the next rounds.

So we get to the crux of the issue. You're selfish. You will actually GRIEF your team if you don't get your way. It has to be YOUR way. Screw the 7 other players gameplay in your match right? It's all about YOUR gameplay. Saying "if they don't conform to my ideal gameplay standards then I will act like a ****" is attempting to dictate others gaming. You aren't defending anything as you don't have a "right" to end any duel. Ever. If you can find this right in the Terms of Service let me know.

Waynedetta40k
02-23-2017, 12:41 PM
Sorry guys the whole disscussion is just Bu ll shi t
I play the game as I want within the rules that ubi has set
If you cry about me ganking up upon you and you gonna alot cry about it then
Iam going to take a bath in your tears >:) while laughing about your rage chat

Scorchwind
02-23-2017, 12:43 PM
I do agree that the idea of 'honorable combat' doesn't fit the mayority of the game's content. Honor has always been but a tool used to drive men into war and a very effective one at that. Wars are not won with honor but with all means neccesary.

This game revolves around a faction war and so it is natural for all parties to use whatever means they have to get ahaed of the opposition. If you don't want to be thrown off ledges you should learn how to counter guardbreaks. If you don't want to be outnumbered you should fight duels. If you believe the battlefield is a place for honor... well... you clearly have not paid attention during your history lessons.

That said, learn to defend yourself against the things you don't want to happen or wait for your 'dishonorable' death like.... what animal waits for their own death again?

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 12:50 PM
Let's say you are 1v1ing X on the A point. Its now contested. Why should RandomPlayer1 have to sit there and wait for you to draw out a fight as to not hurt your feefees when you require that point to win?



So we get to the crux of the issue. You're selfish. You will actually GRIEF your team if you don't get your way. It has to be YOUR way. Screw the 7 other players gameplay in your match right? It's all about YOUR gameplay. Saying "if they don't conform to my ideal gameplay standards then I will act like a ****" is attempting to dictate others gaming. You aren't defending anything as you don't have a "right" to end any duel. Ever. If you can find this right in the Terms of Service let me know.

Right,tell me then when you can find a rule that dictates players to tryhard in every single game.Yep,it's about my gameplay,what else?Do I have control over the other 7 players actions?No.I can just react to situations.Sayng that I'm tryng to dictate how others have to play by defending my duel is like to say that gankers are tryng to dictate how I should play by avoiding duels.If you ruin my experience,then please explain to me why I can't react and ruin yours too.

Rhamez
02-23-2017, 01:00 PM
Right,tell me then when you can find a rule that dictates players to tryhard in every single game.Yep,it's about my gameplay,what else?Do I have control over the other 7 players actions?No.I can just react to situations.Sayng that I'm tryng to dictate how others have to play by defending my duel is like to say that gankers are tryng to dictate how I should play by avoiding duels.If you ruin my experience,then please explain to me why I can't react and ruin yours too.

You're really grasping at straws here man. Are you actually trying to say there is equal footing between playing with make-believe rules of honor and playing to win? if you believe people aiding their allies is tryharding I cringe at the thought of you being on the receiving end of a true competitive comp. If you want to cater to your experience exclusively and ignore others, stay in 1v1 and avoid every other game mode. This is your ONLY option.




If you ruin my experience,then please explain to me why I can't react and ruin yours too.

Because YOUR experience is reliant on a third party asinine ruleset outside of the games design that has ZERO BASIS IN THIS GAME other than the title, while other people are playing the game AS DESIGNED. You will physically grief your team because they played the game like it was meant to be played and refuse to LARP with you. This not clicking?

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 01:26 PM
Because YOUR experience is reliant on a third party asinine ruleset outside of the games design that has ZERO BASIS IN THIS GAME other than the title, while other people are playing the game AS DESIGNED. You will physically grief your team because they played the game like it was meant to be played and refuse to LARP with you. This not clicking?

Since you like to talk about design...why we have stunlock on allys if the game is designed for such a glorious ganking experience?
It's like to say that in my city their is an unwritten rule of painting all houses of green.Then I buy my house and I paint It yellow.Do I break some rules?No.If you want to play a team mode,then you have to respect the point of view of everyone in The lobby,just like you have to respect my private propriety in real life.If I don't want ganks,you have to accept my decision mainly because you want to win:a griefer is of no use in this.Why you let me do it,then?

Waynedetta40k
02-23-2017, 01:37 PM
Who got the Idea that the Game Title had anything todo with what happens ingame?
I have never seen anyone complaining about Ganking in general when it comes to Moba. Its a legit strategie and part of the genre.
I have never seen anyone complaining about outnumbering people on a bombspot in any shooter there its also a legit strategie and part of the games.
Do you really think because this game is called "for Honor" this would be different?

Just WOW

Rhamez
02-23-2017, 01:41 PM
Since you like to talk about design...why we have stunlock on allys if the game is designed for such a glorious ganking experience?
It's like to say that in my city their is an unwritten rule of painting all houses of green.Then I buy my house and I paint It yellow.Do I break some rules?No.If you want to play a team mode,then you have to respect the point of view of everyone in The lobby,just like you have to respect my private propriety in real life.If I don't want ganks,you have to accept my decision mainly because you want to win:a griefer is of no use in this.Why you let me do it,then?

What on earth are you even trying to say here? If you mean why are there staggers when your attacks hit allies, that's because they wanted you to think about how to approach a crowded brawl instead of everyone just zone attacking constantly and is literally just a design choice that doesn't have some hidden meaning behind it. As a counter argument, why is there a heavy damage reduction to friendly fire if they didn't intend you to be up side by side fighting? And that analogy was awful and doesn't even remotely line up with this argument. You are just ranting and raving here with absolutely no reasoning to any of this. YOU are the one wanting to write an unwritten rule, not the rest of the community. In fact, I should be the one asking why I should have to adhere to your unwritten rule. Did you even think this through? You counter pointed yourself. I will even use your words against you.


If you want to play a team mode,then you have to respect the point of view of everyone in The lobby

Why should your point of view take a higher priority than the other players?

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 02:01 PM
What on earth are you even trying to say here? If you mean why are there staggers when your attacks hit allies, that's because they wanted you to think about how to approach a crowded brawl instead of everyone just zone attacking constantly and is literally just a design choice that doesn't have some hidden meaning behind it. As a counter argument, why is there a heavy damage reduction to friendly fire if they didn't intend you to be up side by side fighting? And that analogy was awful and doesn't even remotely line up with this argument. You are just ranting and raving here with absolutely no reasoning to any of this. YOU are the one wanting to write an unwritten rule, not the rest of the community. In fact, I should be the one asking why I should have to adhere to your unwritten rule. Did you even think this through? You counter pointed yourself. I will even use your words against you.



Why should your point of view take a higher priority than the other players?

Why you fail to see my point?I'm not tryng to block ANYONE from doing ANYTHING,except if your tactics directly involve me.I don't care how you play,how many reinforcement you need to win or what tactic you want to abuse to get to your goal.I will fight for my team in my way,just like anyone else.But if your effort to get your victory involves breaking my rules of combat,breaks my gameplay and my enjoyment of the game,you can be sure that I'll strike back.You are not obliged to follow my code,just like I'm not obliged to partecipate to your ganks.My point of view takes an higher priority on my battles,no where else.I will not grief if you gank others.But not me.Live with the fact that someone has some self-imposed rules and choose what to do.Simply as that.

Rhamez
02-23-2017, 02:14 PM
Why you fail to see my point?I'm not tryng to block ANYONE from doing ANYTHING,except if your tactics directly involve me.I don't care how you play,how many reinforcement you need to win or what tactic you want to abuse to get to your goal.I will fight for my team in my way,just like anyone else.But if your effort to get your victory involves breaking my rules of combat,breaks my gameplay and my enjoyment of the game,you can be sure that I'll strike back.You are not obliged to follow my code,just like I'm not obliged to partecipate to your ganks.My point of view takes an higher priority on my battles,no where else.I will not grief if you gank others.But not me.Live with the fact that someone has some self-imposed rules and choose what to do.Simply as that.

Look, we are full circle now. So let's leave this here. If YOU want to 1v1 only, you have a mode for that. When you enter ANY. OTHER. MODE. You immediately forfeit any "right" to a 1v1. It doesn't matter what -you- want. If you go out of your way to 1v1 only and complain about anything else, you are HINDERING your team and you are the one breaking their gameplay. There is no arguing this. They implemented a 1v1 mode JUST for this reason.

You said it yourself, again,
You are not obliged to follow my code

That's it. That's ALL there is to it. Any retaliation for them ignoring your selfish and unreasonable regulation of gameplay on your part is YOU being a selfish brat. This team mode is NOT for you to come in and waste peoples time. It is a 4 VERSUS 4, not 1v1 with social companionship.


But if your effort to get your victory involves breaking my rules of combat,breaks my gameplay and my enjoyment of the game,you can be sure that I'll strike back.


Congratulations this is beyond the most narcissistic thing I have ever read in my life on a game forum. You're absolutely delusional if you think your ridiculous "1v1 me" bs supersedes the game modes goal. YOUR rules of combat are so insignificant and below that of the goal of the game mode, no matter how much you kick and scream.
How on earth is what you are saying NOT registering in your head that it IS INDEED trying to block people from doing something, and that something is being a 1v2+ and WINNING THE GAME. How egotistical do you have to be to type out what you just did and not cringe at how ridiculous it sounds?

Captain-Courage
02-23-2017, 02:15 PM
Why you fail to see my point?I'm not tryng to block ANYONE from doing ANYTHING,except if your tactics directly involve me.I don't care how you play,how many reinforcement you need to win or what tactic you want to abuse to get to your goal.I will fight for my team in my way,just like anyone else.But if your effort to get your victory involves breaking my rules of combat,breaks my gameplay and my enjoyment of the game,you can be sure that I'll strike back.You are not obliged to follow my code,just like I'm not obliged to partecipate to your ganks.My point of view takes an higher priority on my battles,no where else.I will not grief if you gank others.But not me.Live with the fact that someone has some self-imposed rules and choose what to do.Simply as that.

You're just deeply selfish and have nothing to do in a multiplayer team game. Period.

The more you post, the more it's clearly obvious that the only team mates that you can play with are your own ego and percieved sense of self importance. Fortunately for you, you have your "virtue", handy to hide behind by taking the higher moral ground and dismiss others efforts to try and win a game together.
It would be really funny to see how you do in an 20 vs 20 objective mode in Chivalry MW (protip : there is no more chivalry un Chivalry than honor in For Honor)

Tziwen
02-23-2017, 02:16 PM
This is a gamedesign problem. The game give the key to lower skilled players to win it all. They don't learn the game, don't watch any tutorial: They move in group and gank. IMO i jut wait for them to get bored and go back playing LOL. It'll get better in a few.

ReggiR
02-23-2017, 02:19 PM
Understand, that most people dont play this game for competative reasons. They want to have fun. And while you obviously think that winning by any means IS fun

I have order to do 50 teakdowns in elemination. I have a choice, do around 3 kills every match or get around 5-8 kills every match ( i just need one hit before guy will die). So its choice between around 17 games or around 10 or less games. Tell me what i should choose when i have a job and personal life and i prefer duel mode, but i want to do order for exp and steel? I prefer 1vs1, but its 4vs4 mode, not 4x 1vs1, so i accept what this mode is about.

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 02:23 PM
Look, we are full circle now. So let's leave this here. If YOU want to 1v1 only, you have a mode for that. When you enter ANY. OTHER. MODE. You immediately forfeit any "right" to a 1v1. It doesn't matter what -you- want. If you go out of your way to 1v1 only and complain about anything else, you are HINDERING your team and you are the one breaking their gameplay. There is no arguing this. They implemented a 1v1 mode JUST for this reason.

You said it yourself, again,

That's it. That's ALL there is to it. Any retaliation for them ignoring your selfish and unreasonable regulation of gameplay on your part is YOU being a selfish brat. This team mode is NOT for you to come in and waste peoples time. It is a 4 VERSUS 4, not 1v1 with social companionship.



Congratulations this is beyond the most narcissistic thing I have ever read in my life on a game forum. You're absolutely delusional if you think your ridiculous "1v1 me" bs supersedes the game modes goal. YOUR rules of combat are so insignificant and below that of the goal of the game mode, no matter how much you kick and scream.
How on earth is what you are saying NOT registering in your head that it IS INDEED trying to block people from doing something, and that something is being a 1v2+ and WINNING THE GAME. How egotistical do you have to be to type out what you just did and not cringe at how ridiculous it sounds?

Let's just agree to disagree then.We have different goals.We can discuss forever about what is intended and what's not,fact is that the game gives tools to the players,to reach their goal:to win or to improve in combat.You can keep to do everything in your power to win,I to preserve duels and fair fight,unless ubisoft takes a clear position about the question.

Captain-Courage
02-23-2017, 02:31 PM
Let's just agree to disagree then.We have different goals.We can discuss forever about what is intended and what's not,fact is that the game gives tools to the players,to reach their goal:to win or to improve in combat.You can keep to do everything in your power to win,I to preserve duels and fair fight,unless ubisoft takes a clear position about the question.

Ubi already took a very clear position. Nothing is vague, everything is very explicit, except when you beat around the bush to justify the fact that you willingly gimp a collective effort with your behaviour.

It's called Duel mode.

m1y4gi
02-23-2017, 02:33 PM
I'm pretty much at the point where these discussions are just pointless and I feel continuing them just gives people who somehow decided they can tell others how to play a platform for their ego driven declarations of what is correct.

People have always wanted to tell others how to play.
People have always complained about ganking and demanded the ganker meet them outside for a 1 vs 1 to prove how much better they are (sore losers basically).
People have always insisted 1 vs 1 is skill and being good in a team and using the environment is no skill (disagree, it's a different type of skill).
People do this in every game (on the Battlefield 1 forums people complain about tank users, grenade spammers, pilots, cavalry riders ... you name it).

The difference this time?
I guess the name of the game makes them think they are right, and people keep entertaining them when they try to lay down the law.
The game does have a bit of an identity crisis, and the modes aren't quite sure what they want to be.
You start facing an opponent but it's a team game about crushing the other team with boosts spread across a large map.
The modes are confused, so no wonder the players are.
Basically each mode (except 1 vs 1) has 2 ways to play it, this has formed 2 camps and the rest is history.

The solution. Well, either shut up and get on with it, whichever way you choose to play, or Ubisoft need to completely re-work the modes / the whole game. The solution is not to keep telling others how to play.

Now, all honor-whiners read and learn...

Rhamez
02-23-2017, 02:35 PM
This is a gamedesign problem. The game give the key to lower skilled players to win it all. They don't learn the game, don't watch any tutorial: They move in group and gank. IMO i jut wait for them to get bored and go back playing LOL. It'll get better in a few.

This is NOT a game design problem. It is a fallacy used by those bitter that they lost. Nothing more. If you lose even when outnumbered to people who haven't even done a tutorial then that's on you and there is nothing to blame but your own ability. Revenge is a mechanic so broken that you yourself have the advantage against unskilled players in an outnumbered scenario.

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 02:36 PM
Ubi already took a very clear position. Nothing is vague, everything is very explicit, except when you beat around the bush to justify the fact that you willingly gimp a collective effort with your behaviour.

It's called Duel mode.

Which,if you had read my posts,I play about everytime.Care to tell me when ubi stated that avoiding to do everything that you can in order to win is ban worthy?Stop cryng about what others do,as I said,you are free to cheese every other player in your game.Not me tho.

Captain-Courage
02-23-2017, 02:47 PM
Which,if you had read my posts,I play about everytime.Care to tell me when ubi stated that avoiding to do everything that you can in order to win is ban worthy?Stop cryng about what others do,as I said,you are free to cheese every other player in your game.Not me tho.

Then if you are a Duel player, don't complain when it doesn't go as you wish when you play with others that you can't objectify and control.
Because when you hit your team mates when they want to quickly dispatch a threat and feel offended because of that, that's clearly what you do. Like children do when they throw a tantrum because everything wasn't as they wanted when they learn to socialise (which is often done ... with games)

If you don't want to play with a team, because you are clearly not fit to it, stick to duel or AI modes, orders or not. No, just duel indeed, because AI often use what you call cheesy tactics (your line on the tactics over fights was hilarious and so out of whack by the way).

I'ts like playing a football or basket ball game but never pass the ball to your team mates "because I want fair 1v1".
Typical ego powered childish selfish behaviour, as others already told you. but as you can verbalise better than a 3 years old, you have your "virtue" and "sense of honor" to conveniently hide it.

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 02:53 PM
Then if you are a Duel player, don't complain when it doesn't go as you wish when you play with others that you can't objectify and control.
Because when you hit your team mates when they want to quickly dispatch a threat and feel offended because of that, that's clearly what you do.

If you don't want to play with a team, because you are clearly not fit to it, stick to duel or AI modes, orders or not. No, just duel indeed, because AI often use what you call cheesy tactics (your line on the tactics over fights was hilarious and so out of whack by the way).

I'ts like playing a football or basket ball game but never pass the ball to your team mates "because I want fair 1v1".
Typical ego powered selfish behaviour, as others already told you

You said It,I can't control the outcome of a match or what my teammates do.But I can control myself and my actions: I won't allow a gank to be made at my opponent,which is fighting a fair duel vs me.I don't complain,I simply act: cry me a river if you don't enjoy my playstile,I won't bend over to yours just because the majority agrees with you.Being selfish is not against rules,so sorry but not sorry.

Rhamez
02-23-2017, 02:59 PM
You said It,I can't control the outcome of a match or what my teammates do.But I can control myself and my actions: I won't allow a gank to be made at my opponent,which is fighting a fair duel vs me.I don't complain,I simply act: cry me a river if you don't enjoy my playstile,I won't bend over to yours just because the majority agrees with you.Being selfish is not against rules,so sorry but not sorry.

So you admit it then? You're just a selfish brat with a fragile ego that is unable to venture from your comfort zone of 1v1s. This has nothing to do with "fairness" or "honor".

Mystery solved, welcome to the mindset of "pro-honor" players ladies and gentleman, case closed.

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 03:04 PM
So you admit it then? You're just a selfish brat with a fragile ego that is unable to venture from your comfort zone of 1v1s. This has nothing to do with "fairness" or "honor".

Mystery solved, welcome to the mindset of "pro-honor" players ladies and gentleman, case closed.

Sorry I can't hear you behind your 3 man ganks and ledge traps.Then you have the courage of sayng that "1v1 is a comfort zone"?Man I just hope you earn a lot of money from this game,because if you don't do that your whole "I play just to win" attitude falls apart.

GewaltSam
02-23-2017, 03:19 PM
Ledge throwing seems easy, the counters against it not so much.

Now, what when I tell you that, say, with 150h or 200h of experience, if you work on your guard break counters, know the general rules of gbs (for example, when they are free), have some experience in using some simple feint techniques, and can parry too easy heavies your enemy throws you, then the ledge game gets a whole new dimension?

Now some will say "I'm casual, I don't play that much, it's for reflex god only" and so on, and you would be wrong. You can't prefire in CS with 20h of gaming experience. You can't really air dribble if you're only 40h into Rocket League. Your build-order in Starcraft 2 is probably crap if you haven't worked a few dozen hours on your played race, and so on.

This game is pretty easy to pick up, but way harder to fully grasp. You need to put some "work" into it (and I don't mean in an unfun way; but sometimes, you should do some training sessions or simply play harder opponents and think about how to crack them). If you die a lot near ledges, you are free to avoid them - or you defend yourself and punish your enemy for his tries (absolutely possible). This is where the skilled game begins right now, and where people will send you a "nicely done!" after you put them down the drain with 100% life while nearly dying yourself.

Waynedetta40k
02-23-2017, 03:58 PM
This is a gamedesign problem. The game give the key to lower skilled players to win it all. They don't learn the game, don't watch any tutorial: They move in group and gank. IMO i jut wait for them to get bored and go back playing LOL. It'll get better in a few.

No in this case you and your team is just not as good as they think they are because you just got outplayed by better players.

Skill is the ability to win the game.
Other people always create some weird defitinions for the word "skill" because they suck at winning.
So its easier for them to be the better player by their own rules.
Poor bastards.

RatedChaotic
02-23-2017, 04:09 PM
Instead of blaming the game for being put in a unfair fight. You should blame yourself and/or your team. These complaints of getting ganked by teams are nothing but an organized team going against a disorganized team. Some of you should learn the maps, practice with your teams, configure good team hero combinations and discuss strategies Instead of just forming a team and going in blind without a plan to handle situations your team is vulnerable too.

Dekallis
02-23-2017, 04:37 PM
Let me begin by saving "Honor" itself is vauge. There's no real 'code' of honor universally recognized. The samurai had the code of bushido, which many people think is insane when they understand the full scope of what the code of bushido is and not just the basic virtues it lays out. Then there's the Chilvaric code, which make no mistake was NOT some unified doctrine for all Knights, different knight orders had different codes of honor. What was acceptable to one was not to another and as such would've been a fundamental cause of conflict(Ironic considering the subject matter.). The "Honor" most people are talking about is an abstract perception that they invoke whenever the feel cheated.

However the reality is, if you look at codes of conduct for knights there's things like 'never refuse a duel' or 'never turn your back upon a enemy' (We've all broken that one by now) and besides that most of these codes of conduct for knights were limited to tournaments/duels/interactions with the people. They weren't meant to apply to battlefields. Or we can even get more basic and go to the "Warriors Code" Which is something that's more or less existed since tribal eras in some form or another, again it varies though the common themes are courage and loyalty, and oddly, mercy. Yet not one of these that I've seen has ever decried using the terrain to your advantage, it is generally understood that once in combat you use all available skills and tactics to win.

So, with that in mind, what is "Honor" really?

Until a legitimized ruleset is accepted all the discussion in the world is moot. One man's Honor is another's ignorance and yet another's definition may be 'dirty' to someone else. Another odd point is that people seem to ignore the fact some characters are OBVIOUSLY designed for certain tactics. Would Raider be able to charge you like a enraged rhino and carry you off ungodly distances is he weren't meant to use the terrain? Probably not. Would Lawbringer be designed with multiple moves who's sole purpose is to move you around and reposition you if he weren't about positioning and using environment? Probably not. It's a thing that always crops up in 3d fighting games if a character is designed to 'ring out' or slam you into walls to continue their offense other people will call that cheap because the fight feels onesided one they're hit by that character's strategy. But usually such chars aren't overbearing otherwise. Do you make an exception for them? Or do your rules need to be adjusted? Obviously not everyone will agree on where the line is drawn.

SnueGliffer
02-23-2017, 04:41 PM
Let's face it, it's not the people who are willing to play whatever way they want who are frustrated, it's the 1v1 crowd who are the most vocal in their complaints. How often do you hear somebody in game complain that their teammates are playing too honorably and won't take advantage of ganking or ledges? I've played a lot of games and not once has any complaining come from that crowd, it's the other side who insist on accusing others of "no honor" and "cheap tactics" and this happens about 7 out of 10 games. There's always one person who's just got to tell everyone how they should be playing 4v4. If people don't join in team fights or won't throw others off ledges then fine, it doesn't bother me. God forbid I choose to do so and then I'll get the rage of someone who is apparently well versed in the art of warfare explain how I don't fight with honor.

You don't have to explain why you refuse to join team fights and you don't have to explain why you won't push someone to their death. We get it, you inisist on playing like it is a duel. It's you 1v1 fanatics that need to learn why people don't immediately jump on your arbitrary list of rules and play exactly the way you want to play. It's a team based game mode, people play it to play as a team. If you do not like this then perhaps 4v4 isn't for you.

Waynedetta40k
02-23-2017, 04:45 PM
Easy fix to this would be a winner stands mod with arena enviorment.
You could play with a team and have all the 1v1 without enviormental hazzards.
I do enjoy both playing with teams with all dem ganks and ledges and duelling with people in fair fights alike.
Having both in one mod would be a great addition. The game needs variety.

ARC-N11_ordo
02-23-2017, 04:56 PM
Ok, this is ridiculous. To any of the miserable little maggots that believe that spamming, constant guard break, and overpowered heros are a legitimate indication that you have simply mastered the mechanics of the game, can I just ask you this; Do any of you fight in real life? And no, I don't mean a drunken fist fight outside you backwater towns dive of a bar. I mean have you ever stepped into the ring across from someone else and had to fight them without the help of the "mechanics"? If you have, I'm fairly sure that you must have noticed the third party in the ring with you, AKA, the referee. You know, the guy who enforces the "rules" or "honor" system during the fight. He prevents fighters from doing things like groin shots, eye gouging and the like so that the two contestants can more accurately test each others skill against each other instead of jockeying to see who can grab the others balls first.

And before you say it, Yeah, no **** this game isn't an MMA style game with refs and "rules". I realize that no matter how frustrating, all of the cheesy tactics you guys covet are 100% allowed in the game. My question is, what are you without your precious "mechanics"?

You see, For Honor is the first fighting game that I've bought. My view on fighting games has always been that, because they are games, they will be populated by pathetic, slimy, weasels that couldn't actually fight their way out of their parents basements to get a sandwich with the crust cut off. They will always make use of things like, "mechanics", and cheesy tactics to win. Why? Because they are so afraid of the possibility that they are not the demi-gods of martial combat that they think they are. They can't stand the idea of losing, mostly because they've never actually won.

I've been in martial arts for about 15 years now and have fought hundreds of people. In those fifteen years I've lost about 5 fights. Why? Because when the ref comes in and they tell my opponent that they can't run away from me, or that they cant just use the same pathetic move, over and over again, that's when reality comes crashing down. They can't hide behind anything then. It's just me and them and it terrifies them because now they actually have to fight. And you know what? With the exception of a few, I made the vast majority of supposedly excellent fighters break down and cry like the children they are. Someone took their toys and they can't handle it. So I beat the crap out of them in front of their friends and families like they deserve.

And that is my thoughts on people who use "mechanics" to justify their style of play. All I'm asking is for you to honestly ask yourself the question, am I good? Or am I just afraid of losing? I for one am not. If you can beat me without the use of cheesy tactics then by all means, I will freely admit that you are better than me. Until then, I'll just consider you the same as the people who cheese the Gatekeeper off the edge in Destiny, because you aren't good enough to do it otherwise.

SoveRReignN
02-23-2017, 05:01 PM
Problem is total ignorance. If you see to players having a descent fight. I mean they are going at it. It would make much sense to let them go at it. There were cases when people let us go at it, or if their teammate was getting low on hp they would gank me afterwards etc etc. Sure people can apply tactics, some things i just common sense. I think the idea is to understand and be the player to lead as an example and show others. The title stands for something. How can you fight for honor with no honor?

SnueGliffer
02-23-2017, 05:06 PM
Ok, this is ridiculous. To any of the miserable little maggots that believe that spamming, constant guard break, and overpowered heros are a legitimate indication that you have simply mastered the mechanics of the game, can I just ask you this; Do any of you fight in real life? And no, I don't mean a drunken fist fight outside you backwater towns dive of a bar. I mean have you ever stepped into the ring across from someone else and had to fight them without the help of the "mechanics"? If you have, I'm fairly sure that you must have noticed the third party in the ring with you, AKA, the referee. You know, the guy who enforces the "rules" or "honor" system during the fight. He prevents fighters from doing things like groin shots, eye gouging and the like so that the two contestants can more accurately test each others skill against each other instead of jockeying to see who can grab the others balls first.

And before you say it, Yeah, no **** this game isn't an MMA style game with refs and "rules". I realize that no matter how frustrating, all of the cheesy tactics you guys covet are 100% allowed in the game. My question is, what are you without your precious "mechanics"?

You see, For Honor is the first fighting game that I've bought. My view on fighting games has always been that, because they are games, they will be populated by pathetic, slimy, weasels that couldn't actually fight their way out of their parents basements to get a sandwich with the crust cut off. They will always make use of things like, "mechanics", and cheesy tactics to win. Why? Because they are so afraid of the possibility that they are not the demi-gods of martial combat that they think they are. They can't stand the idea of losing, mostly because they've never actually won.

I've been in martial arts for about 15 years now and have fought hundreds of people. In those fifteen years I've lost about 5 fights. Why? Because when the ref comes in and they tell my opponent that they can't run away from me, or that they cant just use the same pathetic move, over and over again, that's when reality comes crashing down. They can't hide behind anything then. It's just me and them and it terrifies them because now they actually have to fight. And you know what? With the exception of a few, I made the vast majority of supposedly excellent fighters break down and cry like the children they are. Someone took their toys and they can't handle it. So I beat the crap out of them in front of their friends and families like they deserve.

And that is my thoughts on people who use "mechanics" to justify their style of play. All I'm asking is for you to honestly ask yourself the question, am I good? Or am I just afraid of losing? I for one am not. If you can beat me without the use of cheesy tactics then by all means, I will freely admit that you are better than me. Until then, I'll just consider you the same as the people who cheese the Gatekeeper off the edge in Destiny, because you aren't good enough to do it otherwise.

I honestly can't tell if this is a troll post or not. I refuse to believe someone is comparing a video game set in a fantasy world to MMA.

xXl Plan B lXx
02-23-2017, 05:27 PM
They did that. Read the game descriptions.

Duel (http://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/duel.aspx)Battle it out against a single opponent in a best of five-round fight in an arena! Use your mastery of your hero’s move set to slay your opponent. You must do so without feats or radar to pinpoint your opponent’s position. Be on the lookout, and tap into your skills!
Brawl (http://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/brawl.aspx)This is a 2v2, best-of-five rounds battle to the death. Each hero spawns at a different point of the map. A team wins a battle when they’ve eliminated the last hero of the opposing team. There are no respawns. Battle arenas are filled with traps and ledges, so exploit your environment to your advantage!
Elimination (http://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/elimination.aspx)
Elimination is a best of five rounds 4v4 mode. There is no respawn and the player who is the last to survive on the battlefield wins the round for their team. It’s a mode full of tension where every fight matters – will you confront your direct opponent or coordinate with your team to storm together one enemy after the other?
Skirmish (http://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/skirmish.aspx)
Combat skills are key in Skirmish as you score points for your team by killing enemy Heroes. Each match ends with a climatic with a breaking phase when one team needs to wipe out all of the players on the other team to win the game!

Dominion (http://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/dominion.aspx)In this 4v4 battle you must break the opposing team’s morale and then eliminate them. You do so by scoring points through killing enemies, capturing specific areas, and controlling them over time. Once a team reaches 1000 points, the opposite teams breaks and can no longer spawn unless they kill opponents or recapture areas. A team wins by killing the last hero of a breaking team.


Unless ubisoft takes a clear position about the question.

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 05:37 PM
They did that. Read the game descriptions.

Duel (http://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/duel.aspx)Battle it out against a single opponent in a best of five-round fight in an arena! Use your mastery of your hero’s move set to slay your opponent. You must do so without feats or radar to pinpoint your opponent’s position. Be on the lookout, and tap into your skills!
Brawl (http://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/brawl.aspx)This is a 2v2, best-of-five rounds battle to the death. Each hero spawns at a different point of the map. A team wins a battle when they’ve eliminated the last hero of the opposing team. There are no respawns. Battle arenas are filled with traps and ledges, so exploit your environment to your advantage!
Elimination (http://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/elimination.aspx)
Elimination is a best of five rounds 4v4 mode. There is no respawn and the player who is the last to survive on the battlefield wins the round for their team. It’s a mode full of tension where every fight matters – will you confront your direct opponent or coordinate with your team to storm together one enemy after the other?
Skirmish (http://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/skirmish.aspx)
Combat skills are key in Skirmish as you score points for your team by killing enemy Heroes. Each match ends with a climatic with a breaking phase when one team needs to wipe out all of the players on the other team to win the game!

Dominion (http://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-US/game-info/game-modes/dominion.aspx)In this 4v4 battle you must break the opposing team’s morale and then eliminate them. You do so by scoring points through killing enemies, capturing specific areas, and controlling them over time. Once a team reaches 1000 points, the opposite teams breaks and can no longer spawn unless they kill opponents or recapture areas. A team wins by killing the last hero of a breaking team.

Actually those are open choices.Will you fight your opponent or group?That's not a take of position.

OIUHD
02-23-2017, 05:45 PM
In 2v2 I never intervene unless they are doing NH tactics (running, same move over, playing like a coward or hit my teammate in a 1v1).

obviously in 4vs4 and Dominion is fare game.

Captain-Courage
02-23-2017, 06:05 PM
Ok, this is ridiculous. To any of the miserable little maggots that believe that spamming, constant guard break, and overpowered heros are a legitimate indication that you have simply mastered the mechanics of the game, can I just ask you this; Do any of you fight in real life? And no, I don't mean a drunken fist fight outside you backwater towns dive of a bar. I mean have you ever stepped into the ring across from someone else and had to fight them without the help of the "mechanics"? If you have, I'm fairly sure that you must have noticed the third party in the ring with you, AKA, the referee. You know, the guy who enforces the "rules" or "honor" system during the fight. He prevents fighters from doing things like groin shots, eye gouging and the like so that the two contestants can more accurately test each others skill against each other instead of jockeying to see who can grab the others balls first.

And before you say it, Yeah, no **** this game isn't an MMA style game with refs and "rules". I realize that no matter how frustrating, all of the cheesy tactics you guys covet are 100% allowed in the game. My question is, what are you without your precious "mechanics"?

You see, For Honor is the first fighting game that I've bought. My view on fighting games has always been that, because they are games, they will be populated by pathetic, slimy, weasels that couldn't actually fight their way out of their parents basements to get a sandwich with the crust cut off. They will always make use of things like, "mechanics", and cheesy tactics to win. Why? Because they are so afraid of the possibility that they are not the demi-gods of martial combat that they think they are. They can't stand the idea of losing, mostly because they've never actually won.

I've been in martial arts for about 15 years now and have fought hundreds of people. In those fifteen years I've lost about 5 fights. Why? Because when the ref comes in and they tell my opponent that they can't run away from me, or that they cant just use the same pathetic move, over and over again, that's when reality comes crashing down. They can't hide behind anything then. It's just me and them and it terrifies them because now they actually have to fight. And you know what? With the exception of a few, I made the vast majority of supposedly excellent fighters break down and cry like the children they are. Someone took their toys and they can't handle it. So I beat the crap out of them in front of their friends and families like they deserve.

And that is my thoughts on people who use "mechanics" to justify their style of play. All I'm asking is for you to honestly ask yourself the question, am I good? Or am I just afraid of losing? I for one am not. If you can beat me without the use of cheesy tactics then by all means, I will freely admit that you are better than me. Until then, I'll just consider you the same as the people who cheese the Gatekeeper off the edge in Destiny, because you aren't good enough to do it otherwise.

You just made a 25 years practionner laugh with your out of nowhere analogy and you martial arts CV that you point to everyone like it would give you any kind of superior authority or legitimity when it comes to gamedesign. Like really, really hard. And you know what, one of the best fighter I ever met and fought is one of my gypsy friends. He never entered a Dojo nor a boxing gym. He's a champion of nothing. But I saw him put some bragging champions to the ground, numerous times and without cheating. A good lesson for your ego next time you bring your martial arts cursus as an argument to legitimise your nonsensinc ego filled tantrum.

And you start really strong with your referee reference by the way, not even seeing that a referee is not needed in a video game, the referee and the ruleset are engraved in the code itself. Code is law.

Priceless.
But must be a troll.

xXl Plan B lXx
02-23-2017, 06:06 PM
That's right. They have given you a choice. Let me see if I can capture this from my and ONLY my perspective. I'm not speaking for anyone else and I'm not specifically saying you're doing any or all of these things.

See below the quote.


Actually those are open choices.Will you fight your opponent or group?That's not a take of position.

My issue with the "Honor" folks:



They look down on those that don't meet their criteria, their systematic approach to the game.
They tell others because you don't make the same choice I do, that you're a lesser player and many say a lesser person, which is just dispicable.
They believe that it's their job to enforce their belief system on others
They state that your game play is affecting my enjoyment of the game


My outtake:


I don't mind you playing honorably. Just don't expect me to play your way. It's not part of the prescribed rules of engagement and I'm not going to limit myself to some subset of standards because I just don't feel it's necessary
I think its cool you believe that it matters, and you're adhering to it.


Where things run afoul for me is when I have people tell me that my way isn't okay. I'd call this the religious component. You're Catholic. He's Protestant. They're Mormon and Steve over there is Islamic. Keep doing you. Just stop trying to enforce your belief system on me. I am not telling you how to play your game. You play it your way. You have no method to control how I want to play and no amount of griping, shaming or harassment is going to change that. When you tell me that my way is not the method by which the game "should" be played it creates a fundamental issue that can't be over come. Simply put you cannot control the way I want to play, and I cannot control the way you want to play. There aren't different game lobbies for those factions so to speak, so simply put, the honor people want a more stringent code. Play the game. Live with the outcome of it. Simply because you can't change the game structure and no amount of your systematic approach to how it should be played is going to change that the game allows it.



The game mode rules dictate the rules of engagement. Not your myopic view or belief system.


That during the first 4 battles everything is a go but during the 5th battle throwing me off a ledge is cheesing the win. That by attacking someone else in a 2v2 match that clearly says "TEAM" not individual I'm breaking some code of conduct. That when you're fighting someone in Dominion and I'm running by I jump in and help kill him in an effort to get us both moving along to the next capture point.

I'll give you a classic example of why I get frustrated by players who seem to have a moving rule set for the games or "honor code" that applies to the game.

My son and I were playing in a Brawl. The two guys we were playing against wanted to "duel" so we did. They beat us the first two matches. I was doing an Order that required me to get something like 15 take downs in Brawl. During the 3rd matchup I finally bested my guy and ran over to just poke the guy to get the takedown added as I wanted to just get the order over. During the 4th round I threw my guy off the bridge. Ran over and poked the guy again and then stood and watched. During the 5th round I was going against a guy that I hadn't beaten. I lured him onto the bridge and threw him off. At this point I immediately get a message and this is the conversation:


Previous Brawl Player #1: your boy cheesed
Me: No idea what the hell that means. You lost. Move along. (Thinking he's talking to me about my son doing something I didn't get to see)
Previous Brawl Player #1: final match. threw off a ledge. its greasey.
Me: That was me. Whats your point? It's part of the game. Quit being whney. You lost a good 5 round match
Previous Brawl Player #1: Good example you set for your son, winning is winning no matte how its achieved.

At which point I said lets get this dude into the party.
Previous Brawl Player #1: You cheesed that round. Our community should have higher standards than to throw someone off the 5th round of a match. You should fight it out and show your mettle.
Me: So you'd like to take a part of the game away from me in an effort to lessen the things you have to defend against?
Previous Brawl Player #1: Yes. The community shouldn't let players throw others off. There is no honor in this. The game should have a standard and all players should adhere to that standard. Just so you know my entire clan is reporting you for griefing.


This is the type of thing that just doesn't sit with me, and no matter how long the "For Honor" folks talk about honor it falls on deaf ears.

psyminion
02-23-2017, 06:07 PM
from Miyamoto Musashi, the infamous Japanese master of the blade...

"this is a truth: when you sacrifice your life, you must make fullest use of your weaponry. It is false not to do so, and to die with a weapon yet undrawn."
The Book of Five Rings

"Victory is certain when the enemy is caught up in a rhythm which confuses his spirit."
The Book of Five Rings

you guys keep on complaining about being ganked and gang-banged in 4v4 modes, see how that works out for you.



"the primary thing when you take a sword in your hands is your intention to cut the enemy, whatever the means."

xXl Plan B lXx
02-23-2017, 06:09 PM
I competed in Martial Arts and have two gold medals from global competitions, and I've never seen a referee tell someone that they couldn't move around in the ring. Your analogy is flawed. Floyd Mayweather is considered to be pound for pound the best fighter in the world and people say he's boring because all he does is move around the ring and play defense. Keep trying though. It's cute.


I've been in martial arts for about 15 years now and have fought hundreds of people. In those fifteen years I've lost about 5 fights. Why? Because when the ref comes in and they tell my opponent that they can't run away from me, or that they cant just use the same pathetic move, over and over again, that's when reality comes crashing down. They can't hide behind anything then. It's just me and them and it terrifies them because now they actually have to fight. And you know what? With the exception of a few, I made the vast majority of supposedly excellent fighters break down and cry like the children they are. Someone took their toys and they can't handle it. So I beat the crap out of them in front of their friends and families like they deserve.

Viktorius_III
02-23-2017, 06:14 PM
Easy fix to this would be a winner stands mod with arena enviorment.
You could play with a team and have all the 1v1 without enviormental hazzards.
I do enjoy both playing with teams with all dem ganks and ledges and duelling with people in fair fights alike.
Having both in one mod would be a great addition. The game needs variety.

wow i think you are the first in 60 post who actually contributed something to the discussion :D
thank you for restoring my hopes in humanity... at least a little :D

KD_Kanelbullen
02-23-2017, 06:16 PM
[B]
The thing is... its allowed. Its as allowed as using granadelaunchers in mw2 or as allowed as zerg rushing a new player in starcraft.

Thats not the issue, at least for me. just because we CAN do something it doesnt mean we SHOULD.

Viktorius_III
02-23-2017, 06:21 PM
Thats not the issue, at least for me. just because we CAN do something it doesnt mean we SHOULD.

i know your feeling. and i wrote that in the end... i am one of the "honor" guys... but i do understand why so many are not :)

Valtaya
02-23-2017, 06:25 PM
I can see that you're biased toward the cheap tactics.Which is fair and square,but understand that not everybody cares only about victory.Someone,like me,cares more about how you earned that victory,rather than the victory itself.That's why i push people back if they are near a cliff.That's why I let people recover their position if the fight cornered them.That's why I don't spam anything and never gank.

I'm no one to tell others how to play,but this is my code.You're free to ignore It,just don't cry if you(ally) gank me in my duel and I hit you in the back.That was my duel,you have no right to interrupt It.And don't cry if I'm the last man in elimination vs4 and i run wasting your time.You refuse fair fights?Enjoy run simulator then.

Then you and others like you do not understand how things like that work.

Compare this to some other team game... lets say football... what you suggest is, whoever gets the ball, noone is allowed to chase after it, but the corresponding player (ie center on center etc). But that is not how this works... you get the ball and every player from the opposing team is going after you, whether you like it or not. The only thing that matters is noone cheats... that is comparable to fouls etc. If you want nice 1on1... go for duel, what do you think it is called DUel?

Sorry but you do not have much to say about this and it is not up to debate. If you are more of a "tennis" fan rather some team, act accordingly. And btw, if you run in circles if someone messed up "your" duel in elimnation, that is called griefing. On the other hand, if someone (be it an enemy or an ally) who joins "your nice duel" is perfectly within the rules of this mode and game. Live with it. Can't? Go play duel or stop playign For Honor.

kanuzira
02-23-2017, 06:34 PM
No honor in dieing

Viktorius_III
02-23-2017, 06:37 PM
No honor in dieing

yea... thats why every pistol duel ended with one guy killing the other the night before in their sleep... oh wait! YES THERE IS!

Pope138
02-23-2017, 06:39 PM
No honor in dieing

You do not understand what honor is.

forrest0755
02-23-2017, 07:02 PM
Is it frustrating having a really good duel interrupted? Yes. But it is just something you have to deal with in 4v4. I can't expect my team to just wait around, bored, while I finish my fight. As long as they dont get in the way, and dont start accidentally hitting me ruining my combos, I am not going to complain. If I really wanted a good 1v1, I should have played 1v1.

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 07:03 PM
Then you and others like you do not understand how things like that work.

Compare this to some other team game... lets say football... what you suggest is, whoever gets the ball, noone is allowed to chase after it, but the corresponding player (ie center on center etc). But that is not how this works... you get the ball and every player from the opposing team is going after you, whether you like it or not. The only thing that matters is noone cheats... that is comparable to fouls etc. If you want nice 1on1... go for duel, what do you think it is called DUel?

Sorry but you do not have much to say about this and it is not up to debate. If you are more of a "tennis" fan rather some team, act accordingly. And btw, if you run in circles if someone messed up "your" duel in elimnation, that is called griefing. On the other hand, if someone (be it an enemy or an ally) who joins "your nice duel" is perfectly within the rules of this mode and game. Live with it. Can't? Go play duel or stop playign For Honor.

Basically...I should live with people that join my duels.I disagree,but that's not the main point.In which universe running as the last man of the team against 3-4 people is griefing?

frank1ller
02-23-2017, 07:07 PM
in the campaign, the warden give back the sword to the warlord chief so they can finish their figth.

I find this more honorable than stabbing his back while he watch his house in flames.

Ephemiel
02-23-2017, 07:07 PM
Being dishonorable is a thing, it will always be a thing, but the POINT of the game is honor. The gameplay is clearly designed to focus on 1v1 fights, the game is called "For Honor", a lot of the, kinda crappy, story involves honor.

At the very least, you should be encouraged to be honorable.

forrest0755
02-23-2017, 07:10 PM
Basically...I should live with people that join my duels.I disagree,but that's not the main point.In which universe running as the last man of the team against 3-4 people is griefing?

I am fine with both the ganking and running. I personally wont 4v someone, cause I will just end up getting hit by my team.

As for running, the people who complain about running ned to figure out how to cut someone off. It isnt that difficult. If you know the maps, you can very easily corner them. You can use any of the many ranged feats, or trap feats, to stop them. But no, someone people think it is a good idea to to chase behind them all day, and never catch them. Then they complain about having their time wasted.

forrest0755
02-23-2017, 07:12 PM
Being dishonorable is a thing, it will always be a thing, but the POINT of the game is honor. The gameplay is clearly designed to focus on 1v1 fights, the game is called "For Honor", a lot of the, kinda crappy, story involves honor.

At the very least, you should be encouraged to be honorable.

The game has multiple mechanics for fight wjile outnumbered. It is not designed to be 1v1. Much of the stroy is you fighting multiple enemies at once, only the boss fights are really duels. I feel like a broken record saying this, but For Honor, does not mean with Honor.

Ephemiel
02-23-2017, 07:35 PM
The game has multiple mechanics for fight wjile outnumbered. It is not designed to be 1v1. Much of the stroy is you fighting multiple enemies at once, only the boss fights are really duels. I feel like a broken record saying this, but For Honor, does not mean with Honor.

The "multiple" enemies you fight are mostly one shot minions and, when you don't fight them, you're not jumped by 2 or 3 enemies, they fight other NPCs. The game allowing you to just block one direction to block whoever is there is not "multiple mechanics to fight outnumbered" and Revenge is already abused HEAVILY for any 1v1 fight. The P2P system the game uses already makes blocking multiple enemies a hassle, the game's guard mode locks you into ONE person [further empathizing the fact the game is focused on 1v1 duels] and anything you do is always focused on one guy.

I'm not saying being dishonorable is bad, I'm on both sides pretty much on every match I've done, but just make it more enticing to be honorable and people will start shutting up.

Captain-Courage
02-23-2017, 07:38 PM
the game is called "For Honor".

This wonderful adventure game is called "The Legend of Zelda", so why in heavens do they make me play as a guy named Link ?

forrest0755
02-23-2017, 08:15 PM
The "multiple" enemies you fight are mostly one shot minions and, when you don't fight them, you're not jumped by 2 or 3 enemies, they fight other NPCs. The game allowing you to just block one direction to block whoever is there is not "multiple mechanics to fight outnumbered" and Revenge is already abused HEAVILY for any 1v1 fight. The P2P system the game uses already makes blocking multiple enemies a hassle, the game's guard mode locks you into ONE person [further empathizing the fact the game is focused on 1v1 duels] and anything you do is always focused on one guy.

I'm not saying being dishonorable is bad, I'm on both sides pretty much on every match I've done, but just make it more enticing to be honorable and people will start shutting up.
Did you play the story, because there are many times where there is more than one enemy, and not just the 1 hit minions. And if you do the tutorial it teaches you how to block against more than 1 person. It teaches you how to quickly change who you are locked on to. Literally all you have to do is tap l2, or LT, or whatever it is on on pc, and you change who you are locked onto. Note this is pretty much the first thing you learn how to do. 1v2 is a major part of the game. Just as much as 1v1.

Gretta_Blade
02-23-2017, 08:17 PM
As a military history buff i feel the need to chime in, there never has been nor will there ever be any behavior modifications that will induce the code you seek. In 1v1 duels, there has been an honor system in the past but beyond that nothing. So I dont know why everyone has been complaining, if your in a 1v1 duel and it gets interupted to bad, you dont join mulitplayer matches for 1v1 duels. There is a clock running as well, people want to get their points and gear and get the hell out of the match and move on to the next conquest for more stuffs :). You want a long strategic sword fight...wrong game. I understand what some people want, but this isnt the venue or the setup for it, if i were the honor folks i would petition the devs as a group but calling each other names and arguing whos right and wrong on a forum is just plain instanity, like my kids in the back seat/ no i didnt, yes you did/ no didnt, yes you did, we can go on for days even decades...

Cipher_73
02-23-2017, 08:46 PM
I can see that you're biased toward the cheap tactics.Which is fair and square,but understand that not everybody cares only about victory.Someone,like me,cares more about how you earned that victory,rather than the victory itself.That's why i push people back if they are near a cliff.That's why I let people recover their position if the fight cornered them.That's why I don't spam anything and never gank.

I'm no one to tell others how to play,but this is my code.You're free to ignore It,just don't cry if you(ally) gank me in my duel and I hit you in the back.That was my duel,you have no right to interrupt It.And don't cry if I'm the last man in elimination vs4 and i run wasting your time.You refuse fair fights?Enjoy run simulator then.

First, you did not enter a duel with that other random person. You entered a match called Elimination and/or Brawl. That is not a "duel". And why the devs specifically named those modes that way, it was to respect the "Honor" of dueling that is reserved for the 1 vs 1 "Duel" mode.

Elimination and Brawl are meant for two teams of 2 or 4 to fight each other and win. It is not dueling.

However, there really should be some sort of respect when a person is engaged with an opponent and he's winning. To help put only if he's losing. But unfortunately that's very hard to determine and filter out in lobbies with randoms.

People really need to understand what this whole Honor deal is about and why that's reserved for 1 vs 1 duels. Read up on the history of the Samurai and you'll realize what happened to them and how they had to evolve from their honor system when it came to war. It's a very interesting read.

Cyb3rR4ptor
02-23-2017, 08:59 PM
Fist of all, I want to say. This has been the absolutely best thread on this entire forum. Debating something about something that really has nothing to be debated.

Anyways.
I will gank, I will use cheesy tactics if needed. I will retreat in shame when necessary. I will push you off an edge 50 times if i can or have to .I will Kill Steal if my team takes too long on taking out a target. I will spam taunts over your characters dead body. You don't like it? Tell me where it says that I can't in the game. All I will do is for the benefit of the team's victory. Hell even tauting on top of a body is a good tactic. The weak of character will get angered and thus are more prone to commit mistakes. Truth be told, we all knew that this was coming, saying otherwise is pure ignorance. How can people be this surprised about something that is easily forseen even before the game was fully released.

You got ganked? You got ganked cuz
1. In skirmish/dominion your team failed to keep a good situational awareness on the map. Or you went all YOLO lonewolf on the map with no awareness, and that's what you get for trying to do your own agenda on a setting which is clearly team effort.
2. In elimination a teammate got killed or his opponent ran away and failed to notify you. Or same drill as before you went lonewolf again and disregarded the whole situation. Getting you killed.

Thankfully my mindset for 2v2 or 4v4 is "gank or be ganked."
.
4v4 don't need skill? Yes it does. It needs proper individual skill and team coordination. I am at best decent in 1v1 but great at coordinating with my friends. So getting ganked by random ppl is bad? Imagine when the enemy team has some skill and coordination? Grab 4 guys who are top notch skill on 1v1 and get them to coordinate on a 4v4. These guys would totally dominate. Their collective skill added with coordination would make for an incredible team.

When in 4v4 you are taking on a single enemy. Best call help. Sure you can go for the 1v1 and win. But are you making a good call? What if an enemy is on it's way to gank you or take you after your previous opponent left you vulnerable. Anything and everything that happens is on the collective skill of the players. Playing 1v1 provides players with an opportunity to think and lay out their plays. You don't have such luxury in any other mode. There are other people counting on you to do your part as efficient as possilbe for the benefit of all. Not your bias sense of conduct.

If you want to play under a personal set of rules. It's simple find a group of people who share your views and make custom games.
If anyone believes that not ganking enemies does not affect others game play. Well you're wrong. Everything that you do and don't do WILL affect other's experience. Maybe you let your buddy go for the 1v1 and he lost. He see you just doing nothing while he is executed. He just experienced being ignored and abandoned by his team. So be clear. EVERYTHING YOU DO and EVERYTHING YOU DON'T DO adds to the overall game experience.

Brave_Thunder
02-23-2017, 09:17 PM
First, you did not enter a duel with that other random person. You entered a match called Elimination and/or Brawl. That is not a "duel". And why the devs specifically named those modes that way, it was to respect the "Honor" of dueling that is reserved for the 1 vs 1 "Duel" mode.

Elimination and Brawl are meant for two teams of 2 or 4 to fight each other and win. It is not dueling.

However, there really should be some sort of respect when a person is engaged with an opponent and he's winning. To help put only if he's losing. But unfortunately that's very hard to determine and filter out in lobbies with randoms.

People really need to understand what this whole Honor deal is about and why that's reserved for 1 vs 1 duels. Read up on the history of the Samurai and you'll realize what happened to them and how they had to evolve from their honor system when it came to war. It's a very interesting read.

Real life can't be compared to a game.In war,the choice is between honor and death.Here,the only difference is the word that appears at the end of the game.

Cipher_73
02-23-2017, 09:55 PM
Real life can't be compared to a game.In war,the choice is between honor and death.Here,the only difference is the word that appears at the end of the game.

You're right. It is a game. And these Honor people are trying to instill their ideals in a game environment that has game modes that does not follow their values.

If they want a 1 vs 1, go play duel. If they want to play with multiple friends in a duel-like environment, get 8 friends and create your own custom match. Otherwise if you join a lobby with randoms, don't expect us to conform.

The modes are clearly identified as to what they are. Going into a 4 vs 4 and then wanting players to do 1 vs 1 is ridiculous. They assume it's "implied to duel" because they start you off in Elimination facing a single opponent. It's not! It's an option and a choice of strategy. Stay and fight, or run and regroup and attack with force.

Waynedetta40k
02-23-2017, 10:30 PM
You're right. It is a game. And these Honor people are trying to instill their ideals in a game environment that has game modes that does not follow their values.
.

They are just mad because they are getting ganked and dont know how to handle the situation.

BlackbirdMPK
02-24-2017, 12:05 AM
Personally I think people are taking the 'honor" thing too literally. When i made my post about honor I wasn't referring to ye olden days take ten steps and all that jazz. "Never hit a man when he's down." I don't care about that. The issue is the difference in personal play style that amounts to fights being a spam fest or a running simulator. To people saying "it's called brawl and elimination" thank you for stating the obvious about the names without alluding to the context that an elimination match starts you off against one person.

Regardless of what anyone wants to say about how the game is designed and you're free to run away before a fight even starts, the game is actually designed around fighting one on one. That's how the mechanics where created when determining how 90% of the fighting works. The other 10% was designed to be able to fight multiple people. So your assumption that the game is designed to "play however you want" is not entirely accurate, regardless if you're free to do so.

I consider myself in the "honor" crowd, with my only standard being that I fight who I'm squared up to fight in elimination. I won't run away simply to gang up on someone else without even finishing my match. To me, the satisfaction comes from being able to overcome my opponent. THAT, is skill. Skill isn't "I ran to get a numbers advantage haha I is smart." That's not skill. It requires no higher game function to do so. SKILL is implemented when you fight. There is no "skill" in tactics if the tactic is not having a tactic, since running within itself does no procure a victory. Running can even get you killed since you're not... you know... fighting.

Honestly, I've just come to conclusion that the people who run away in every fight regardless of advantage or disadvantage are just unskilled. And I've confirmed this seeing as every time they're in a fight they're getting demolished by me or someone else.

If you wanna flee. Sure. No problem. Just know when I catch you I'm gonna kill you and whatever teammate you doomed to die with you when you give me revenge in 3 seconds. I don't care about cliffs. I don't care about being ganged up on. I'm all for it. But fleeing at the start of combat? It really shows a lack of skill. Call "smart" if you want. Fact of the matter is, you know your skill level is low and can only procure a win by running, and even then, it doesn't guarantee you a win. I've never seen a good player flee from the first match of elimination.

I get more satisfaction from killing my opponent using actual skill than winning "at all costs." That's how cheaters think too. You think hackers think they're cheating? They're just following the same "win at all costs" rule. At the end of the day, play how you want. Just know that your definition of "fun" is different from others. I'm sure those who lose often hate losing, and will do anything to win. Real winners (as in those who actually are skilled enough to use SKILL to win) don't need to resort to cheap tactics.

Think about it. Why would someone who can easily kill an opponent run from a fight? If you're confident enough in your skill. Why run? Because those who know they're not that good know they can't win a straight up fight.

SiewcaRaka
02-24-2017, 12:37 AM
If you wanna flee. Sure. No problem. Just know when I catch you I'm gonna kill you and whatever teammate you doomed to die with you when you give me revenge in 3 seconds. I don't care about cliffs. I don't care about being ganged up on. I'm all for it. But fleeing at the start of combat? It really shows a lack of skill. Call "smart" if you want. Fact of the matter is, you know your skill level is low and can only procure a win by running, and even then, it doesn't guarantee you a win. I've never seen a good player flee from the first match of elimination.


If between us there is high risk footing(bridge, lava spikes whatever) I will keep going back to more advantageous position. If there is power up right beside me, ill take it. If not, I will fight, but not because it is honourable, but because it is better. If i kill you, i can get powerups health etc and help my teammates by ganking. If I won't kill you, i could run but the effect could be not so good. Either 2v2 fiesta which is dangerous or 2x 2v1, so I would kill my second teammate by not killing you.

But its all about tactics that we plan to use. 4 man team can all agree to meet somewhere(health pack, armor boost, dmg boost) and kill anyone that will approach them. One guy can flee to be on resing mission which is quite crucial in elims if enemy team sucks at executions. You call it unskilled? That is only to be determined. If fleeing guy wins, you and your team were unskilled. If he lost, then he and his team were unskilled. There is no cheaters or luckers on battlefield. Only winners and corpses.

Reign
02-24-2017, 12:44 AM
Would there be trophies for knocking people off ledges, or into fire and spikes if all the dev's wanted was us to slap each other in the face with gloves and duel. No. You're playing by your own guidelines don't get pissed when others play the full game.

VTheMan032
02-24-2017, 01:04 AM
THe "No Honor" used to annoy me when i started playing, as I'm getting better i only rlly get annoyed by things like getting ganged up on with Conq bashes and Lawbringer poke carries.... into pits, cross the map from a blind spot.

Ruin..
02-24-2017, 01:33 AM
Honestly i had really no problem with this whole "honor" fight, until today. I play mostly dominion and elimination, with a few 1v1 sprinkled in when i feel like dueling a single person. I would consider myself kinda honorable. I throw people of cliffs when I can because spacial awareness is a part of combat. In an elimination match i fight the first guy they throw at me then I move on, and help my teammate. BUT today for some reason i decided to try out brawl as i hadn't played it since beta. Taking this to be just like a smaller Elimination, I Killed my guy and went to help my teammate, and this is when it got real for me. My own teammate starts berating me for helping him. While he's screaming about how i ruined his game and took all the fun out of it, I suggest that he might find what he's looking for in 1v1. He then exclaims that, that's not how things are done in 2v2, that there are special rules that I have to adhere to. By this point we had mopped the floor with our opposition, me helping him take down his guy every time(the last one was just for spite).

He called me inbred and left.

If someone helping you in a fight ruins the game for you, then why don't you play 1v1?

Regardless of where you stand in the "honor" fight you should know that this is a multiplayer game and that not everyone is going to adhere to your special rules. If the game type your playing in allows it to happen then it's going to happen.

TLDR: I got called inbred, and play 1v1 if you wanna 1v1.

SiewcaRaka
02-24-2017, 01:37 AM
Honestly i had really no problem with this whole "honor" fight, until today. I play mostly dominion and elimination, with a few 1v1 sprinkled in when i feel like dueling a single person. I would consider myself kinda honorable. I throw people of cliffs when I can because spacial awareness is a part of combat. In an elimination match i fight the first guy they throw at me then I move on, and help my teammate. BUT today for some reason i decided to try out brawl as i hadn't played it since beta. Taking this to be just like a smaller Elimination, I Killed my guy and went to help my teammate, and this is when it got real for me. My own teammate starts berating me for helping him. While he's screaming about how i ruined his game and took all the fun out of it, I suggest that he might find what he's looking for in 1v1. He then exclaims that, that's not how things are done in 2v2, that there are special rules that I have to adhere to. By this point we had mopped that floor with our opposition, me helping him take down his guy every time(the last one was just for spite).

He called me inbred and left.

If someone helping you in a fight ruins the game for you, then why don't you play 1v1?

Regardless of where you stand in the "honor" fight you should know that this is a multiplayer game and that not everyone is going to adhere to your special rules. If the game type your playing in allows it to happen then it's going to happen.

TLDR: I got called inbred, and play 1v1 if you wanna 1v1.

Because calling people names is not ruining someone's fun and is completely honourable! Dont mind such petty man. Hope that you will find him on opposite side where you will be able to show him exactly why he is small scrub.

CoyoteXStarrk
02-24-2017, 01:39 AM
I will say what I always say.

You can play however you wanna play. Its your game, you can play it any way you feel like playing.


BUT


That doesn't mean you cannot be criticized for playing the way you play. People are free to point out that you play a certain way and are entitled to look down upon you or turn their noses up at it.



Its up to you whether or not you care.

rabidrabbit133
02-24-2017, 01:44 AM
I don't mind when I have face a 2v1 as that's my enemies choice to fight that way, it just annoys me in Elimination or Brawl when I've been fighting someone 1v1 for a little while and asshat team mate coming leaping in flinging attacks wildly to steal the kill - usually hitting me as much as the opponent. If you insist on getting involve be useful and go for GB instead and just mashing attacks to pad you stats.

Skirmish and Dominion are a complete free for all though so never have any complaints there.

This 100%. I absolutely hate that after I've gotten a berzerker or something down to as little health as I have and some ******bag comes out of nowhere and kills him just as I'm getting ready to finish him off. Single combat mother****ers, if I need help I'm already dead.

SiewcaRaka
02-24-2017, 01:46 AM
I will say what I always say.

You can play however you wanna play. Its your game, you can play it any way you feel like playing.


BUT


That doesn't mean you cannot be criticized for playing the way you play. People are free to point out that you play a certain way and are entitled to look down upon you or turn their noses up at it.



Its up to you whether or not you care.

Look down upon? Only if your corpse will be higher than me. Corpses don't look down upon anyone, they got no opinion nor do they voice their complains. Your teammate got killed in a second by me. You couldn't kill my teammate in that time. You couldn't kill two of us(with revenge as it is two opponents is quite easy). Your skill is low, and we look down upon you, cause you died :D. I do everything I can to win? So are you, by trying to belittle tactic that is troubling you. I put my sword in your back, you are saying we are cowards. Same thing. Difference is...we won. We used everything we could to destroy you. Was that necessary? Maybe not. But I don't underestimate my opponent and I shall see him as my equal. That's why I will use everything:)

CoyoteXStarrk
02-24-2017, 01:51 AM
Look down upon? Only if your corpse will be higher than me. Corpses don't look down upon anyone, they got no opinion nor do they voice their complains. Your teammate got killed in a second by me. You couldn't kill my teammate in that time. You couldn't kill two of us(with revenge as it is two opponents is quite easy). Your skill is low, and we look down upon you, cause you died :D. I do everything I can to win? So are you, by trying to belittle tactic that is troubling you. I put my sword in your back, you are saying we are cowards. Same thing. Difference is...we won. We used everything we could to destroy you. Was that necessary? Maybe not. But I don't underestimate my opponent and I shall see him as my equal. That's why I will use everything:)

Thanks for proving my point again lol

Sephriem
02-24-2017, 03:23 AM
I've heard from PC gamer friends that there is some serious verbal abuse from the in game chats on other players :(.

I'd say I'm pretty honorable to the fact my console friends always shine when I don't jump in lol. I get ganged up on all the time so I just try my best and accept my fate. Since I'm a 1vs1 classes dom and deathmatches are pretty tough, revenge mode is a god send and a curse, which stays true to the word and co sequence of the word really.

I do find it funny though because people very quickly either moan cause someone noobs in causes the player revenge and the player just wipes the original, but also they complain when theirs multiples against themselves. And yet will still attack another players character of say they've done an execution. Lol. Still I love being in fights, where its me and my friends one enemy left, and we send just one guy in bow, start up he wins or loses and it just continues like that or vice versa (very rare) but still. There's a lot of respect in players both sides for that. *all the warm fuzzies*

D_Snake25
02-24-2017, 05:22 AM
If I may add my 2cents to this

I fully admit to be a "****s" using enviromental kills to beat someone, if you make a dumb move, give me an opening, of course I'll use it, it's part of the combat, risk reward, if your risk is too great and you fail it's my reward
so i push ppl in spikes, fire, off ledges etc, I won't complain once if someone does it to me

furthermore when it comes to gamemodes like dominion ganking is an important part of the gamemode, dominion is knowing when to rotate from point 1 to 2, when to 2v1, when to back off the help somewhere else
if a team runs around as a group of 4, take 2 flags, they can't be at all 3
BUT considering dominion the gear score totally breaks the game, i have 2 tier 1 heroes so my overall tier is 2. i get matched with tier 6-9 90% of the time, all with gear score of over 100
and to ppl saying ohhh mimimi tier doesn't mean anything. yes it does, same as lvs do in games like bf. Your lv shows your time invested, in FH case the time invested in the hero that you are facing, so if you have tier 1 wich is lets just say 4h of gametime vs someone with tier 9 wich would be just by lv 9 times that, not including the reduced exp gain from being a higher level it is save to assume he will dominate you
yet my point is more towards gear score, when i play with friends and we see a single dude with 100GS we quit, because there is no fair fighting ground, i usually play raider or lawbringer and i have been 2hitted by zoneattacks from nubushis, 2 hitted by zephyr strikes from orochis etc etc
it is patheticly broken and destroyes every chance you have of winning simply because you have no sensual damage compared to your opponent
now talking about the "honor" part of the game
i can understand what Thunder was talking on about, if you play like a **** (in his opinion) he will do the same to you, that is in all ways fair and just, you are playing like you want, and he will as he wants, there is no erason to belittle or insult him for saying that
iin gamemodes like dominion and skirmish (even tho i hate skirmish with all my heart^^) ganking, 2v1,3v1 really isn't an issue at all, especially since oyu can respawn
going to elimination tho, it can be to some degree, the game puts 8 players on a map. 4 locations of 1v1's, main point being it puts you in a 1v1 situation! Now what do about 90% of ppl do now, they run.. Most ppl in elimination play orochi, nubushi or Peace anyway, fastes classes in the game
I for myself haven't had one game where there was no assassin on the other team, furthermore not a single game in wich not at least 2 ppl from the enemy team run away from their 1v1 to try to gank someone, or to grab 4 buffs and come back, because they know there is no way the enemy will catch them, simply because of their class
I hate playing elimination, i think it has a lot of bad design flaws, ganking in general is not the issue, it's a team based game, but starting a match to someone that runs away is just boring and honestly just makes you question why even bother fighting at all, since if you win they run, waiting for someone to 2v1 you.
Next part is that the winning team unlocks their feats, which are simply overpowered, overpowered isn't even enough to discribe how broken some feats are, I'm pretty sure at least 10 ppl in this thread have been put up against an orochi in elimination, and dies withint the fisrt 2 sec of the match because he decided to throw a shuriken and shoot the bow, that's the whole game for you, gg wp
or the lv 4 feats that have 0 cast time, 0 downside, onehit every class no matter health or armor and are impossible to get out of in most cases

Anyhow yes if you don't like it, don't play elimination, fair enough right? but then why are 80% of all orders elimination? ppl have no choice but to play it

going back to the honor part, I have givin my 2 cents about enviromentals, about dominion and deathmatch
now going to 2v2's
the way i see it 2v2 is duelling with a friend against 2 other ppl, mostly friends as well. when i brawl, if i win my fight, no matter how if by "honorable kill" or enviromental i will not inc the duell of my friend, he wants to improve and so does his opponent, the gamemode is litterally about duelling so i stand by and watch, if my enemy kills my friend i will let him execute, since he won the fight and now has to face me since i was the survivor of the firsts match basically
that is how i play and may others prefer to play, it is about fighting and improving not winning.
Now on the other hand you always have ppl that'll just 2v1 as soon as they win their fight, fair enough, it is after all 2v2, for me i dislike it, i will ask if it's really necessary. but if ppl want to play the gamemode that way then i will join in on it as well, and 2v1 whenever i get the chance.
The problem is the community of this game alltogether, because everyone is so far up there own *** that they always think of themselves as right, always superior and frankly as soon as something does not go their way, they get super triggered. I play raider as i think i have mentioned, wich is arguably one of the most underperforming classes simply by their mechanic, but that's not the point, i constantly get death threats, hate spam, insults etc for just killing them, especially those ppl that fight "dishonorable" in the first game, e.g. my friend looses his fight, the 2nd enemy incs me in my duell
no matter if i win or loose i will do the same next round, after doing so they explode in hate and trash talk!?

This game has serious balancing issues no doubt about it, but our playerbase is the worst part of the game. PPl forget this is a GAME, it's not life or death, hell there isn't even ranked yet for crying out loud!
you are trying to have fun, but so is your opponent, instead of trying to purposely making your opponent miserable, remember that your fun depends on him being there as weill, neither would have fun without the other, so stop being a ****!
if someone calls out no honor, don't straight up insult him, tell him either you wouldn't mind playing a bit mroe honorable or just saying, look it's part of the game and how i want to play, if oyu don't like it either leave or accept it
and to the NO HONOR catcallers, instead of just calling out no honor, why not just ask "hey, could we try some fights without ......" "i want to improve on that and you prob could help me with it"

but no, everyone simply refers to die of cancer, i ****ed your mom last night etc etc etc

ytho, y so toxic :(

Anyhow, I've been rambling on for way too long, I'm sure some ppl will aggree, disaggree and smoeone will hate me, since we are on the interwebs
Night you guys,

D-Snake

SiewcaRaka
02-24-2017, 07:57 AM
Thanks for proving my point again lol

Proved? The only thing you have proved is that you are unskilled and that you like losing :D

Hogmin
02-24-2017, 08:01 AM
so this turned non civilised very quickly lol.

End of the day, everyone is free to play the game how they want, and anyone else be damned should you try and force your way on them.

SiewcaRaka
02-24-2017, 08:02 AM
so this turned non civilised very quickly lol.

End of the day, everyone is free to play the game how they want, and anyone else be damned should you try and force your way on them.

I'll drink to that :D

Brave_Thunder
02-24-2017, 09:02 AM
Look down upon? Only if your corpse will be higher than me. Corpses don't look down upon anyone, they got no opinion nor do they voice their complains. Your teammate got killed in a second by me. You couldn't kill my teammate in that time. You couldn't kill two of us(with revenge as it is two opponents is quite easy). Your skill is low, and we look down upon you, cause you died :D. I do everything I can to win? So are you, by trying to belittle tactic that is troubling you. I put my sword in your back, you are saying we are cowards. Same thing. Difference is...we won. We used everything we could to destroy you. Was that necessary? Maybe not. But I don't underestimate my opponent and I shall see him as my equal. That's why I will use everything:)

Actually,if you 2v1 someone,you are considering him superior to you,since you are using numbers instead of skill to beat him.Considering your opponent your equal means to fight him fairly,not stab him in the back.That's why I backstab those that interrupt my duels:you lack respect to me,because you think that I'm gonna lose the fight,and yourself,because you're afraid to die in a 1v1.

FailOfHDDVD
02-24-2017, 09:27 AM
Actually,if you 2v1 someone,you are considering him superior to you,since you are using numbers instead of skill to beat him.Considering your opponent your equal means to fight him fairly,not stab him in the back.That's why I backstab those that interrupt my duels:you lack respect to me,because you think that I'm gonna lose the fight,and yourself,because you're afraid to die in a 1v1.

that's called trying to win the game and get more xp

Brave_Thunder
02-24-2017, 09:30 AM
that's called trying to win the game and get more xp

And for what pourpose?To win or lose,still you get exp and with time,everyone will unlock what prestige they want.I'm not gonna disrespect my opponent for some random plus xp.

Lue_DK
02-24-2017, 11:24 AM
..That was my duel,you have no right to interrupt It...

First all, I'm not telling you how to play, I generally agree with you that people should follow what code they feel for, as long as it is within the game rules. Therefore, I tip my hat at you for attempting to play without being a bastard :)

But why do you feel it is your right to duel 1 versus 1, in a game mode that favours group play?
I don't understand this feeling of being entitled to that. Furthermore, I really don't understand the idea that when this is not given to you, you decide to run around in circles instead, wasting people's time. Someone plays as the mode was designed, and you chose to ruin the match?

Brave_Thunder
02-24-2017, 11:35 AM
First all, I'm not telling you how to play, I generally agree with you that people should follow what code they feel for, as long as it is within the game rules. Therefore, I tip my hat at you for attempting to play without being a bastard :)

But why do you feel it is your right to duel 1 versus 1, in a game mode that favours group play?
I don't understand this feeling of being entitled to that. Furthermore, I really don't understand the idea that when this is not given to you, you decide to run around in circles instead, wasting people's time. Someone plays as the mode was designed, and you chose to ruin the match?

I think you misunderstood.I run around in circles only when I'm the last of my team against 3-4 guys who are going to gank me.Imo,If you fear defeat when you can duel me and you have someone to back you up If you die,you deserve to run around for 3 mins,I'm not gonna hand you the victory till I can.Regarding duels:we start facing off an opponent.That's our fight.If an ally comes,I usually spam "I got it" hoping that he understands and simply watch.But If he joins the fight,he disrespected my skill to win the duel or he's negating my opponent his deserved kill.That's why I try to push him out.Hopefully he'll understand and avoid to gank me in the next round.Free to gank and help others,but let me win or die deserving it.

Captain-Courage
02-24-2017, 12:14 PM
Actually,if you 2v1 someone,you are considering him superior to you,since you are using numbers instead of skill to beat him.Considering your opponent your equal means to fight him fairly,not stab him in the back.That's why I backstab those that interrupt my duels:you lack respect to me,because you think that I'm gonna lose the fight,and yourself,because you're afraid to die in a 1v1.


You are just motivated by your ego and nothing else. Me, me,me, I, I ,I. This type of behaviour brings nothing to a collective team effort, on the contrary, it just undermines it
You have nothing to do in team based modes.
You don't want teammates, persons, to play with you, because you can't tolerate any kind of interaction that you have no grasp on. You want objects that you can manipulate at will to give to your ego its shot of gratification.

Brave_Thunder
02-24-2017, 12:58 PM
You are just motivated by your ego and nothing else. Me, me,me, I, I ,I. This type of behaviour brings nothing to a collective team effort, on the contrary, it just undermines it
You have nothing to do in team based modes.
You don't want teammates, persons, to play with you, because you can't tolerate any kind of interaction that you have no grasp on. You want objects that you can manipulate at will to give to your ego its shot of gratification.

You are free to think what you want.If you think that my ideal of duel is just an egoistic move,free to think that way.I just want to remeber you that not you or any other teammate has bought me the game,so no one can break my gameplay "because he can" without getting my punishment.Why?"Because I can too".

SiewcaRaka
02-24-2017, 07:02 PM
Actually,if you 2v1 someone,you are considering him superior to you,since you are using numbers instead of skill to beat him.Considering your opponent your equal means to fight him fairly,not stab him in the back.That's why I backstab those that interrupt my duels:you lack respect to me,because you think that I'm gonna lose the fight,and yourself,because you're afraid to die in a 1v1.

Fights with equals are 50/50. Hell no mate. Ain't taking chances. Only foolish ones do(and it applies to every game, poker, MOBA, shooters etc). I don't see anyone superior than me until he killed me in game. No matter the tacticts he used. You want to stab your teammate? Great attitude, so..."honourable". Stop using those words only when it suits your case.

xXl Plan B lXx
02-24-2017, 07:04 PM
Purposefully stabbing your teammate because he's playing by a rule set that isn't in the game is where you void this. For me that's the point that you willfully start to change the game to suit your stance. If you're not attacking the other team, then you're wrong. It's a simple concept.


You are free to think what you want.If you think that my ideal of duel is just an egoistic move,free to think that way.I just want to remeber you that not you or any other teammate has bought me the game,so no one can break my gameplay "because he can" without getting my punishment.Why?"Because I can too".

Brave_Thunder
02-24-2017, 07:34 PM
Purposefully stabbing your teammate because he's playing by a rule set that isn't in the game is where you void this. For me that's the point that you willfully start to change the game to suit your stance. If you're not attacking the other team, then you're wrong. It's a simple concept.

Just as simple as understand the spam of messages that warns the player to not join the duel.In a ranked setting,you're perfectly right,no one wants to lose his rank for someone else fault.But now,with only "training" games we should learn the game,not try to win at all costs.Playng to win and playng to improve are two different things,that can't be done simultaneously.

xXl Plan B lXx
02-24-2017, 07:45 PM
I agree. But what you've said here doesn't account for you ACTUALLY attacking your teammate. It's a simple thing. You're actually doing the one thing that is frowned upon by EVERYONE. You're purposefully attacking your teammate because he did something YOU didn't like. I personally hope they report you. That's griefing. They may be doing something you don't personally like. That's a you problem. Your attacking them. That's a game problem.

So to spin this differently where is the line on attacking a player on your team. I'm in Dominion and holding Zone C. I call for help and my teammate runs past to B. He doesn't help me. Can I just start attacking him because he didn't do what I wanted?


Just as simple as understand the spam of messages that warns the player to not join the duel.In a ranked setting,you're perfectly right,no one wants to lose his rank for someone else fault.But now,with only "training" games we should learn the game,not try to win at all costs.Playng to win and playng to improve are two different things,that can't be done simultaneously.

SiewcaRaka
02-24-2017, 07:53 PM
I agree. But what you've said here doesn't account for you ACTUALLY attacking your teammate. It's a simple thing. You're actually doing the one thing that is frowned upon by EVERYONE. You're purposefully attacking your teammate because he did something YOU didn't like. I personally hope they report you. That's griefing. They may be doing something you don't personally like. That's a you problem. Your attacking them. That's a game problem.

So to spin this differently where is the line on attacking a player on your team. I'm in Dominion and holding Zone C. I call for help and my teammate runs past to B. He doesn't help me. Can I just start attacking him because he didn't do what I wanted?

Stop making logical arguments while discussing with someone that uses word "honor" when it suits him. It's pointless.

Cyb3rR4ptor
02-24-2017, 10:17 PM
Those who play with "No Honor" actually have a higher skill than those whose "honor code" forbids them from pushing off ledges, using "cheesy" strategies or ganking.
Why? The playes who play with "no honor" do not limit themselves by any means. They adapt and make best with everything that is provided, which is a sign of skill. In a broad time period it will lead them to the ability of winning without pushing off edges, without ganking or using cheesy strategies. Their ability to adapt with no limits will provide a broader experience, learning and sense of anticipating the entire match to such a degree that they can win easily without pushing off the edge or using cheesy tactics.

And also, One can also say that there is more respect on fighting a "no honor" players than someone who plays with some sort of "honor" code.
Why?
Not finishing your opponent. Either by pushing him off an edge when you clearly could or using some sort of "cheesy" tactic. Can be seen as a sign of "dishonor" or "disrespect". You are not treating your opponent as a true threat. You do not see him as your equal, because if so, you would understand that the player has the capacity to actually win. But no, you disregarded it and let him live because you are confident that your "skill" is greater than his and you wish prolong the fight for your own amusement. You are basically underestimating your opponent. And that is a a flaw.

So never, ever, let your opponent live. It will more often than not be your undoing.

xXl Plan B lXx
02-24-2017, 10:20 PM
Yeah haven't you seen Saving Private Ryan?? :p


So never, ever, let your opponent live. It will more often than not be your undoing.

Starcanum
02-24-2017, 10:30 PM
Those who play with "No Honor" actually have a higher skill than those whose "honor code" forbids them from pushing off ledges, using "cheesy" strategies or ganking.
Why? The playes who play with "no honor" do not limit themselves by any means. They adapt and make best with everything that is provided, which is a sign of skill. In a broad time period it will lead them to the ability of winning without pushing off edges, without ganking or using cheesy strategies. Their ability to adapt with no limits will provide a broader experience, learning and sense of anticipating the entire match to such a degree that they can win easily without pushing off the edge or using cheesy tactics.

That actually doesn't make too much of a sense if you think of it. Those who don't have any kind of "code" won't mind using the cheesy tactics etc. as long as it brings them the win, so they'll have less room to progress. Those who handicap themselves have less overall power, so it leaves them with less space for an error if they still want to win, making their progress faster and more certain. Of course I'm talking about the people who only impose the code to themselves and are aware that people won't follow their code. There're also people who are all "pro-honor" and then complain about people who aren't honorable in their eyes. Of course you see more of them on forums because the first kind of honorable players don't have a reason to complain on forums. So for those people it's true, they'll rather make a positional mistake and then excuse it with some bs like "my enemies weren't honorable" and stuff than admit their fault. There's no honor in acting like this, so they actually turn out as the dishonorable ones.

Cyb3rR4ptor
02-25-2017, 12:14 AM
That actually doesn't make too much of a sense if you think of it. Those who don't have any kind of "code" won't mind using the cheesy tactics etc. as long as it brings them the win, so they'll have less room to progress. Those who handicap themselves have less overall power, so it leaves them with less space for an error if they still want to win, making their progress faster and more certain. Of course I'm talking about the people who only impose the code to themselves and are aware that people won't follow their code. There're also people who are all "pro-honor" and then complain about people who aren't honorable in their eyes. Of course you see more of them on forums because the first kind of honorable players don't have a reason to complain on forums. So for those people it's true, they'll rather make a positional mistake and then excuse it with some bs like "my enemies weren't honorable" and stuff than admit their fault. There's no honor in acting like this, so they actually turn out as the dishonorable ones.

And that's they key of my point. Yes there is little room for learning and progress, because they don't see a need for it. But a well versed and skilled person in any pvp game will know that cheesy tactics will soon have a counter to them. Once people learn to counter Cheesy Tactic A, there will be a need for another cheesy tactic and soon Cheesy Tactic B and C arrive. It happens with every game. Given enough time all tactics lose their "cheese" why? Because there is now a broad variety of tactics, strategies and ways to play and since all of them are basically cheesy, none of them are. And this is where the "honor" player starts to fall behind. Because while the "dishonorable" players are coursing trough the entire flow of the game overcoming every limit that shows, the "honorable" player sits by in his own slow pace. Yes he will know a lot and has a lot of skill as long as it's, inside his comfort zone.

Right now the game is in it's early stage and the "cheesy" tactics are few but there is plenty of time for a true meta to take place. Once it does, the anti meta shows up. And the game starts to truly spin around in a Rock/Paper/Scissors fashion. Give it a few months and hopefully, HOPEFULLY, we will see a wide spectrum of "cheesy" tactics and a lot of salt

Starcanum
02-25-2017, 12:21 AM
And that's they key of my point. Yes there is little room for learning and progress, because they don't see a need for it. But a well versed and skilled person in any pvp game will know that cheesy tactics will soon have a counter to them. Once people learn to counter Cheesy Tactic A, there will be a need for another cheesy tactic and soon Cheesy Tactic B and C arrive. It happens with every game. Given enough time all tactics lose their "cheese" why? Because there is now a broad variety of tactics, strategies and ways to play and since all of them are basically cheesy, none of them are. And this is where the "honor" player starts to fall behind. Because while the "dishonorable" players are coursing trough the entire flow of the game overcoming every limit that shows, the "honorable" player sits by in his own slow pace. Yes he will know a lot and has a lot of skill as long as it's, inside his comfort zone.

Right now the game is in it's early stage and the "cheesy" tactics are few but there is plenty of time for a true meta to take place. Once it does, the anti meta shows up. And the game starts to truly spin around in a Rock/Paper/Scissors fashion. Give it a few months and hopefully, HOPEFULLY, we will see a wide spectrum of "cheesy" tactics and a lot of salt

I understand what you mean by the meta changing, but what I don't understand is your claim about the honorable players sitting in his own slow pace. He's still forced to find an answers to the metagame while he has less options at his disposal, they too have to adapt and learn. If you're saying the "dishonorable" player will have his cheesy tactic rendered useless eventually anyway, then wouldn't the "honorable" one essentially be even faster in learning as he wouldn't waste time on relying on that technique in the first place?

B3NNS
02-25-2017, 12:25 AM
It's a game take your salt somewhere else, get into the salt business and do something productive.

Brave_Thunder
02-25-2017, 12:33 AM
I agree. But what you've said here doesn't account for you ACTUALLY attacking your teammate. It's a simple thing. You're actually doing the one thing that is frowned upon by EVERYONE. You're purposefully attacking your teammate because he did something YOU didn't like. I personally hope they report you. That's griefing. They may be doing something you don't personally like. That's a you problem. Your attacking them. That's a game problem.

So to spin this differently where is the line on attacking a player on your team. I'm in Dominion and holding Zone C. I call for help and my teammate runs past to B. He doesn't help me. Can I just start attacking him because he didn't do what I wanted?

Tecnically,yes,you could do that.But doing so you are effectively limiting his options.He wasn't blocking you from doing nothing,here is the difference between mine and your example.

Cyb3rR4ptor
02-25-2017, 12:34 AM
Yeah haven't you seen Saving Private Ryan?? :p

Yes, I have. Many times.

Cyb3rR4ptor
02-25-2017, 12:55 AM
I understand what you mean by the meta changing, but what I don't understand is your claim about the honorable players sitting in his own slow pace. He's still forced to find an answers to the metagame while he has less options at his disposal, they too have to adapt and learn. If you're saying the "dishonorable" player will have his cheesy tactic rendered useless eventually anyway, then wouldn't the "honorable" one essentially be even faster in learning as he wouldn't waste time on relying on that technique in the first place?

The reason why a "honorable" player will have a slower pace will be because of the limited approach. While they come up with a strategy to play the meta inside their code, the "no honor" will probably find a solution in less time since there is no limit on how to deal with it.

Here is an example. Let's say X character has a **** ton of health and the best way to beat him is by pushing him off an edge. In this situation if your "honor" code forbids you from pushing others off the edge then you would have to create a whole play style in order to fight that character.

It is something very situational really it would all depend on what is the current meta game running. What if the meta shows up a "cheesy" tactic that can only be defeated by methods which your code forbids? You are faced with the decision of abandoning your code and win. Or stick your code and lose with dignity.

xXl Plan B lXx
02-25-2017, 12:56 AM
I must have missed where you were blocked from something in your example.


Tecnically,yes,you could do that.But doing so you are effectively limiting his options.He wasn't blocking you from doing nothing,here is the difference between mine and your example.

Starcanum
02-25-2017, 01:16 AM
The reason why a "honorable" player will have a slower pace will be because of the limited approach. While they come up with a strategy to play the meta inside their code, the "no honor" will probably find a solution in less time since there is no limit on how to deal with it.

Here is an example. Let's say X character has a **** ton of health and the best way to beat him is by pushing him off an edge. In this situation if your "honor" code forbids you from pushing others off the edge then you would have to create a whole play style in order to fight that character.

It is something very situational really it would all depend on what is the current meta game running. What if the meta shows up a "cheesy" tactic that can only be defeated by methods which your code forbids? You are faced with the decision of abandoning your code and win. Or stick your code and lose with dignity.

I guess I can't really argue about that as I was mostly using my own example to defend the "honorable player" point but I'm handicapping my playstyle for the reasons other than having some code of honor (except ganging up in Brawl gamemode, that I try not to do purely for "honor" reasons). So the fact that I'm trying to avoid some of the cheesy tactics comes from trying to learn everything about a character instead of sticking to something that gives me an easy win for the time when I'm facing the opponents that don't know how to counter them. And this way I do think I'll be learning at a faster pace than the players who'll keep abusing them just to get the wins for now. But I wouldn't personally refrain from using them if they're clearly the most optimal way to counter something, so I guess I'll concede it about the honorheads' pace of learning as I can't know their reasoning too well.

Brave_Thunder
02-25-2017, 08:43 AM
I must have missed where you were blocked from something in your example.

In my example,a player blocks me from ending my duel.In your example,a player is just ignoring you to mind his own business.To compare them,it's like to say that I start to troll player x because he refused to group or took a buff that I tought was mine.I mind my own business,player x can do what he wants on the whole map,except to gank the one that I'm fighting.When rankeds will come,then...gankers will have all the raisons to gank.Till then,no one will lose his rank,so I fail to see why we have just to cheese others to victory.

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 09:15 AM
In my example,a player blocks me from ending my duel.In your example,a player is just ignoring you to mind his own business.To compare them,it's like to say that I start to troll player x because he refused to group or took a buff that I tought was mine.I mind my own business,player x can do what he wants on the whole map,except to gank the one that I'm fighting.When rankeds will come,then...gankers will have all the raisons to gank.Till then,no one will lose his rank,so I fail to see why we have just to cheese others to victory.

We like to win. No matter which mode. I don't care about you, and you can stab me all you want I will still kill your precious duelmate. Want to duel go play 1v1. Rest is teamplaying. Simple.

Brave_Thunder
02-25-2017, 11:42 AM
We like to win. No matter which mode. I don't care about you, and you can stab me all you want I will still kill your precious duelmate. Want to duel go play 1v1. Rest is teamplaying. Simple.

Fair enough.Don't cry if you fail to kill him because I stabbed you tho.

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 04:38 PM
Fair enough.Don't cry if you fail to kill him because I stabbed you tho.

Don't worry, i never fail cause of kid whining:)

Cyb3rR4ptor
02-25-2017, 05:32 PM
I guess I can't really argue about that as I was mostly using my own example to defend the "honorable player" point but I'm handicapping my playstyle for the reasons other than having some code of honor (except ganging up in Brawl gamemode, that I try not to do purely for "honor" reasons). So the fact that I'm trying to avoid some of the cheesy tactics comes from trying to learn everything about a character instead of sticking to something that gives me an easy win for the time when I'm facing the opponents that don't know how to counter them. And this way I do think I'll be learning at a faster pace than the players who'll keep abusing them just to get the wins for now. But I wouldn't personally refrain from using them if they're clearly the most optimal way to counter something, so I guess I'll concede it about the honorheads' pace of learning as I can't know their reasoning too well.

Don't think much about it. In truth, surpassing any challenge has a lot to do with what attitude you take on said challenge. Both parties will find ways to achieve their goals, but since the "honor" side has a code that forbids them from doing X things they will always have a limit to what they do.

Brave_Thunder
02-25-2017, 06:31 PM
Don't worry, i never fail cause of kid whining:)

Actually,the whine never killed anyone.Stabs on the other hand...

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 06:35 PM
Actually,the whine never killed anyone.Stabs on the other hand...

Stabs are form of whining

Brave_Thunder
02-25-2017, 06:48 PM
Stabs are form of whining

I tought that some sort of communication was required to whine.I'd call stabs more like sabotage,from your point of view.

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 07:36 PM
I tought that some sort of communication was required to whine.I'd call stabs more like sabotage,from your point of view.

Actions are form of communication. Body language, choices we make it all sends some message. Stabbing sends message "I am spoiled brat dont take away my prey" :D

Brave_Thunder
02-25-2017, 07:48 PM
Actions are form of communication. Body language, choices we make it all sends some message. Stabbing sends message "I am spoiled brat dont take away my prey" :D

If actions send messages then ganking others means "I have no skill to win an equal duel,so I'll get my victory trhough numbers instead to learn something".Dunno what's worse between mine and your.

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 08:04 PM
If actions send messages then ganking others means "I have no skill to win an equal duel,so I'll get my victory trhough numbers instead to learn something".Dunno what's worse between mine and your.

But i already finished my duel xD And won it! I simply don't want to waste time till you get your **** together :D Besides i came to win, and your lack of skill is danger to this matter:(

Brave_Thunder
02-25-2017, 08:11 PM
But i already finished my duel xD And won it! I simply don't want to waste time till you get your **** together :D Besides i came to win, and your lack of skill is danger to this matter:(

An opponent is never equal to another.Maybe you could even learn something watching someone fight,instead to gank your way to victory.But I imagine that you consider self improvement just like a waste of time...why learn when you gotta get the victory,right?

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 08:13 PM
An opponent is never equal to another.Maybe you could even learn something watching someone fight,instead to gank your way to victory.But I imagine that you consider self improvement just like a waste of time...why learn when you gotta get the victory,right?

Learn? I learn from my fights, from people that are better than me and simply killed me. Opponent that can't kill scrub and teammate that can't kill scrub got nothing to teach me.

Brave_Thunder
02-25-2017, 08:30 PM
Learn? I learn from my fights, from people that are better than me and simply killed me. Opponent that can't kill scrub and teammate that can't kill scrub got nothing to teach me.
Assuming that your opponent or teammate are scrubs.What happens if they are on your same level?

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 08:31 PM
Assuming that your opponent or teammate are scrubs.What happens if they are on your same level?

Impossible. I can manage 1v2:)

Brave_Thunder
02-25-2017, 08:35 PM
Impossible. I can manage 1v2:)
Gotta love those revenge builds

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 08:37 PM
Gotta love those revenge builds

Lol, sure. Whatever makes you happy. Go back to preschool if you want to make excuse for every god damn failure that was brought upon you by your own lack of skill.

Brave_Thunder
02-25-2017, 08:47 PM
Lol, sure. Whatever makes you happy. Go back to preschool if you want to make excuse for every god damn failure that was brought upon you by your own lack of skill.
Excuses?The only thing I see here are those nice counter argoument that you say to yourself "I learn from my fights" but then "Impossible that they are at my level.I can 1v2". But I'm sure that a bit more insults will cover your lack of logic.The funnyest thing is that I was the one doing things just for my ego,according to this thread.

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 08:50 PM
Excuses?The only thing I see here are those nice counter argoument that you say to yourself "I learn from my fights" but then "Impossible that they are at my level.I can 1v2". But I'm sure that a bit more insults will cover your lack of logic.The funnyest thing is that I was the one doing things just for my ego,according to this thread.

Wait wait wait. If someone will kill me then i will learn from him(as i said he would be better) but scrubs that are killing each other for so long should teach me? Hell no. Maybe if he will prevail 1v2 as I would he will be able to teach me something. Where is contradiction in that?

Brave_Thunder
02-25-2017, 08:55 PM
Wait wait wait. If someone will kill me then i will learn from him(as i said he would be better) but scrubs that are killing each other for so long should teach me? Hell no. Maybe if he will prevail 1v2 as I would he will be able to teach me something. Where is contradiction in that?

In the fact that you're assuming that he's a scrub till he prevails in a 1v2.But only a fool would negate that gear makes an essential component in 4v4 modes.If he prevails because your gank helped him to reach revenge faster,what do you learn?And if his gear was instead prepared for a 1v1 rather than a gank?Doesn't matter anyway?He could always beat you in a 1v1 and lose the 1v2.

SiewcaRaka
02-25-2017, 09:06 PM
In the fact that you're assuming that he's a scrub till he prevails in a 1v2.But only a fool would negate that gear makes an essential component in 4v4 modes.If he prevails because your gank helped him to reach revenge faster,what do you learn?And if his gear was instead prepared for a 1v1 rather than a gank?Doesn't matter anyway?He could always beat you in a 1v1 and lose the 1v2.

If he dies, he doesn't deserve anything and is not able to teach me anything. And if he wins(IF, cause revenge is not insta-win as some small minded people like to think) then i will learn from my mistakes and if he plays hero that i play I will try to incorporate his moves.

Brave_Thunder
02-25-2017, 09:47 PM
If he dies, he doesn't deserve anything and is not able to teach me anything. And if he wins(IF, cause revenge is not insta-win as some small minded people like to think) then i will learn from my mistakes and if he plays hero that i play I will try to incorporate his moves.

And what happens if he dies,then beats you on the next round,being the opponent that you face at the start?In this case you have effectively wasted a fight with him,assuming he would've been able to defeat your teammate without your help.In a ranked setting,I would act exactly like you,I learned to never trust my teammates and I know the frustration that comes from winning on your own,but still falling on the ladder for scrubs teammates.But now,we should be more insterested in mastering combat skills,rather than using all that we have to gain a victory.

gloktoten2
02-26-2017, 12:26 AM
You got the "non honor" section completely wrong.

Hard facts

The 2v2 mode doesn't make 1 player invincible until the others have finished duels.

It COULD be structurable how you think it SHOULD be played very easily. IT ISN'T.

This hard fact means the game CAN be played however the person wants. You're free to run around the map doing whatever you want. I'm free to interupt your duel and backstab you.

Telling other people how you THINK they should play their game, is nothing more than a childish attitude. You don't get to control how people live their lives, you don't get to control how people play their games.

Sorry kiddos. Don't like it, play 1v1. That mode exists for a reason.

GewaltSam
03-02-2017, 05:33 PM
One of the greatest matchmaking features in For Honor, if you ask me, is the option to play against the same opponent(s) over and over again, if you wish to do so. It's possible to look after each round for new opponents, but you can also stay with somebody, have a nice chat about the game, and try different things on each other for hours if you wish.

Now, if you're one of the peeps that really hate dishonorable plays, you can at least do matchmaking until you find somebody with the same mindset like you. This is not that hard especially in 2on2. I had a lot of people against me that even consisted on playing out their version of honorable play. If you find that special somebody, play them for a while and enjoy an experience like you wished for. But, I have to say, if people play the game in a way you don't like, and the mechanics allow it (to go further, even cater to it; spike walls are not there by mistake), you have no right to be offended about it, to be honest. You are free to look for other opponents of course, but let me tell you that you're missing out on a part of the game that is there for a reason! The battles near environmental dangers between two (or more) people that know their stuff is soo intense, and without it, this game would be less than it is. I know for some this sounds impossible, even idiotic, but that's probably because you haven't figured out how to parry and counter guard breaks right. It is NOT - THAT - HARD, it depends on timing and can be learned, even by casual gamers and people with average reflexes. If you don't believe me, you haven't really tried so far. I taught the basics to a LOT of people since release, and I saw how all of them got a lot better at technical fighting in FH. There are rules behind those mechanics, they are not very difficult, but there's a lot of them, and if you learn them, you learn how to play the ledge game. I guarantee this.

JRAD541
03-02-2017, 09:30 PM
Why is this even a thing? Why are there even discussions about it? Just because the title is called 'For Honor'... it's just the same as a player using a pistol in Call of Duty, or only gunning down a player when there are no other players in the vicinity. It's just plain stupid.

I will do whatever the game allows me to do in all modes. Like many people have said before, if you want honour, then go play 1v1.

^^^^ yup