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CarnivalLaw
02-22-2017, 08:01 PM
This ******** class is spammed.

In Dominion yesterday, out of 211 non-Bot opponents, 101 (48%) were playing Orochi. FORTY-EIGHT PERCENT!

x LethalNoodle
02-22-2017, 08:03 PM
What can I say? We're awesome and fun to play.

Gensui.Musashi
02-22-2017, 08:04 PM
and?

TheLawbring3r
02-22-2017, 08:07 PM
Lawbringer here.

I don't think Orochi's are genuinely overpowered, but they are easy to use, have VERY quick attacks (compounded by high damage), can dash/dodge quickly, and have that completely BS GB-into-heavy that is unavoidable if you miss the CGB. I believe that is why many play the Orochi. He's simply easy and hella strong and definitely needs some attention in terms of balance. It's tough to defeat them 1v1 as a LB due to my slow guard changes and attack speed. They seem to just dodge backward or left/right all day, every day. And when you do hit them they just run away like a 6 y.o. girl that scraped her knee.

With all that said, I was in a game last night against 3 Orochi and 1 PK. Game. Over.

AkimuMC
02-22-2017, 08:07 PM
I like the class style, and look... but I am absolutely trash with it. I have tried a few times. I need more practice.

Till then, I will keep playing my underrated class that I chose only because I liked the style... Sure, some folks play a character because "OMG! THIS ONE IS OP! EVERYONE SAYS SO!!" and there are those that pick a class because they like it for whatever reason.

And they are killable... They certainly are not my least favorite class to see on the match up screen anyway... and fortunately my "plague class" isn't picked very often.

Tazimuss
02-22-2017, 08:17 PM
This ******** class is spammed.

In Dominion yesterday, out of 211 non-Bot opponents, 101 (48%) were playing Orochi. FORTY-EIGHT PERCENT!

All I play is Orochi, and I can tell you that, while we have the tools to dance around the battlefield and constantly do damage, we're easily countered by guard breaks and parries. Learn to do those, especially guard breaks because:

"Guardbreak Counter (All Heroes):
Currently you canít counter a guardbreak during a guardbreak attempt. This will be returned to the previous behavior seen in the Beta."

NJ B0SS
02-22-2017, 08:17 PM
Agreed with the first post, to his point, a lot of people are Orochi. As far as OP, nah just a good class.

I am a peacekeeper and I would say the K/D on good Orochi players are about 50/50. Bad one's run the same combo's in which I parry. I hate when the run away but the cant dodge the peacekeepers lunge.

Last thing i will say, when its 2v1 orochi's, its game over for me

Tazimuss
02-22-2017, 08:20 PM
Lawbringer here.

I don't think Orochi's are genuinely overpowered, but they are easy to use, have VERY quick attacks (compounded by high damage), can dash/dodge quickly, and have that completely BS GB-into-heavy that is unavoidable if you miss the CGB. I believe that is why many play the Orochi. He's simply easy and hella strong and definitely needs some attention in terms of balance. It's tough to defeat them 1v1 as a LB due to my slow guard changes and attack speed. They seem to just dodge backward or left/right all day, every day. And when you do hit them they just run away like a 6 y.o. girl that scraped her knee.

With all that said, I was in a game last night against 3 Orochi and 1 PK. Game. Over.

When they dodge all day, parry and/or grab them. It's that simple. NONE of Orochi's attacks are unblockable. And since "Guardbreak Counter (All Heroes):
Currently you canít counter a guardbreak during a guardbreak attempt. This will be returned to the previous behavior seen in the Beta.", all you have to do is grab them when they dodge. That's it, gg you won.

Starcanum
02-22-2017, 08:21 PM
I believe you're misusing the term "easy" here. Are they easy in a sense that it's easy to defeat your opponent when he doesn't know what to do against you? Yes, but every single class can easily defeat a clueless opponent. Are they easy in a sense that their decision-making in combat is straightforward and they just follow a small number of simple patterns? No, couldn't have been more wrong.

Gensui.Musashi
02-22-2017, 08:24 PM
if im only doing one mistake with the orochi im pretty much fked. or im very low on health

TCTF_SWAT
02-22-2017, 08:24 PM
Well duh,they're cockraoches. That's why you step on them.

GamingBotanist
02-22-2017, 08:35 PM
I don't think the Orochi's kit is the problem, nor his speed. What is the problem is his damage. I'm super confident in my ability to take down any class 1v1 except for the Orochi. I'm excellent at CGB, I always have my guard in up to defend against his lightning overhead lights as well as always changing guard in the direction of his Zephyr strikes but half the time it's not enough. If I slip up once or read something wrong I get so punished because of the immense damage he does. This shouldn't be the happen. There is something wrong when a specific hero puts you more on edge than any of the others. He definitely needs looking in to.

o0 DaGnOmE 0o
02-22-2017, 08:43 PM
I don't think it is necessarily the character itself but how people play him. I am noticing, as I get into the higher tier battles, that players who play offensive characters (Assassins, etc) are playing like defense oriented characters. Instead of putting the pressure on their opponent with their speed and lunge strikes they just sit back and wait until you get bored enough to make the first move, which they just dodge and then attack with repetitive combos. What I think needs to happen is Ubisoft needs to observe how the characters classes they designed are actually being played instead of imagining hey are being played as they were designed and they can make some meaningful adjustments from those observations. I main a warden and I am a relatively slow character, even compared to other vanguards, and I can say I am about 75%/25% Wins and losses against these "Offensive" classes. I do however disagree that the Orochi should get a free top heavy if they grab, even as a warden and I am able to grab and opponent and immediately go into a side heavy (My fastest heavy attack) they are able to guard it before my swing connects.This issue may not be as relevant once they adjust the GB counter system to account for latency. The more I play, the better I get and the less I see any one specific hero as "OP". They all just take different methods to kill and you cannot spam the same kind of move set on each enemy you come across.

RedStar105
02-22-2017, 08:48 PM
I don't think the Orochi's kit is the problem, nor his speed. What is the problem is his damage. I'm super confident in my ability to take down any class 1v1 except for the Orochi. I'm excellent at CGB, I always have my guard in up to defend against his lightning overhead lights as well as always changing guard in the direction of his Zephyr strikes but half the time it's not enough. If I slip up once or read something wrong I get so punished because of the immense damage he does. This shouldn't be the happen. There is something wrong when a specific hero puts you more on edge than any of the others. He definitely needs looking in to.

No that isn't a problem.

Assassins are easily punishable so they should have the ability to punish you just as hard.

Zyronos
02-22-2017, 08:54 PM
I have to say starting off that I love the Orochi class and I enjoy playing it, but since the game came out I have really stopped playing him. I like to think I am decent with him and I like to play the more aggressive still with him.

HOWEVER the reason I have stopped playing him is I am so tired ofrom how many people play Orochi. I hate getting into a game and playing against a team of 3 Orochi and 1 other random character. The same thing goes for all the characters but Orochi is the most popular, followed closely by peacekeepers.

I personally think that the devs should instead of nerfing any classes yet, I think one simple change would help a lot and that is like in brawl implement into the other game modes a 1 class per team. This would lower the number of Orochi out there and I believe would make people start playing some of the classes that get less game time.

Swiftstrike76
02-22-2017, 09:16 PM
Personally i think its all the peacekeepers moaning about Orochi's to take the focus away from there op god ness.
2 hit kills when poison is fixed on stab,stab, stab. There guard break spamable moves etc. ;-) shhhhh we know its a secret.

They should of done two major things on realise

1) faction locks you to hereos of that faction.
2) selection like siege so only one of each hereo can be in a match.

Tazimuss
02-22-2017, 09:18 PM
I have to say starting off that I love the Orochi class and I enjoy playing it, but since the game came out I have really stopped playing him. I like to think I am decent with him and I like to play the more aggressive still with him.

HOWEVER the reason I have stopped playing him is I am so tired ofrom how many people play Orochi. I hate getting into a game and playing against a team of 3 Orochi and 1 other random character. The same thing goes for all the characters but Orochi is the most popular, followed closely by peacekeepers.

I personally think that the devs should instead of nerfing any classes yet, I think one simple change would help a lot and that is like in brawl implement into the other game modes a 1 class per team. This would lower the number of Orochi out there and I believe would make people start playing some of the classes that get less game time.

All that would do is make people quit more, so they can get into a new match and play the class they want.

Gensui.Musashi
02-22-2017, 09:19 PM
Personally i think its all the peacekeepers moaning about Orochi's to take the focus away from there op god ness.
2 hit kills when poison is fixed on stab,stab, stab. There guard break spamable moves etc. ;-) shhhhh we know its a secret.

They should of done two major things on realise

1) faction locks you to hereos of that faction.
2) selection like siege so only one of each hereo can be in a match.


i disagree with 1. with the current unfair faction war system this cant work

TCTF_SWAT
02-22-2017, 09:20 PM
Locking the classes or character would cause more quits then ever. I'm convinced 70% of the community are cockraoch mains.

D_cover
02-22-2017, 09:25 PM
Let alone assassin classes are the most used generally. Everyone seems to be playing Orochi and yeah they do have some BS moves with guard breaking and given a guarantee over head heavy strike which is unfair since it is still near impossible to perform a guard break without a moded controller. When in comparison the Raider class has almost no guarantee to a skilled played that has enough time to prepare for a parry let alone a block during a guard break.

Yeah they have lower health but if they just spam guard break heavy combo, guard break heavy combo. Then run away to refill stamina it is safe to say you are guaranteed wins against most heavy's and vanguard classes.

Gensui.Musashi
02-22-2017, 09:28 PM
Let alone assassin classes are the most used generally. Everyone seems to be playing Orochi and yeah they do have some BS moves with guard breaking and given a guarantee over head heavy strike which is unfair since it is still near impossible to perform a guard break without a moded controller. When in comparison the Raider class has almost no guarantee to a skilled played that has enough time to prepare for a parry let alone a block during a guard break.

Yeah they have lower health but if they just spam guard break heavy combo, guard break heavy combo. Then run away to refill stamina it is safe to say you are guaranteed wins against most heavy's and vanguard classes.


this will be fixed in the next update

PlagueGripes
02-22-2017, 09:30 PM
Orochi is a very easy, forgiving class to play, at low to mid levels. Incredibly fast, high damage, combos that string together seemingly by accident, etc. His only main weaknesses are his throw range and health, which barely matters when you're outputting huge amounts of damage.

Basically, so much of the game's mechanics involve having good reaction time that it's easy for Orochi to just spam through people's defenses, because most people won't be able to react to a hailstorm of attacks, all the time.

Orochi is kind of trash at upper level play, but yeah, he's the king of noobs. Any time you make a character that's highly mobile with very fast attacks and high damage, you know what will happen. I find it hilarious that he's supposed to be a "counter attacker." Yeah, right.

G0BackT0G0
02-22-2017, 09:47 PM
orochi is far from overpowered. how about you guys turn on ANY decent twitch streamer and watch them and their opponents play. if they and the opponents know how to counter guardbreak, parry and feint, you can assume they are decent at for honor. then ask them if orochi is overpowered. the classes that are really overpowered are warden, warlord (wl won the recent tournaments), conq and shoguki. there is no question about it. ask anyone decent at this game.

now let me tell you a story. i am far from a good player. i play orochi and i mostly do duels. from time to time i encounter people who do not seem to understand or lack practice in the most basic mechanics of this game. for example they do not know how to counter guard break. they fail to parry or even simply block the most telegraphed abilities. orochis storm rush takes such a long time, its no rocket science to at least block it. still they fail at it. they never feint. they fall for every feint. they do not understand the orochi and therefor do not know to keep their guard at the top because thats where all of orochis fast attacks come from (besides the zone attack). they then ragequit after the first round. i KNOW those are the guys that complain on the forums about orochi. bizarrely enough, most of those guys play warden, one of the most OP classes in the game. period. they fail at every mechanic the game has to offer, they do not know how to vortex as warden, they do not counter orochi by performing crushing counter strike. and then they ragequit and cry their hearts out at the forums.

then from time to time i encounter people who who are similar to the before mentioned type of player, besides the fact that they are slightly better at the basic mechanics of the game. but they lack in some aspects. maybe they fail to counter guardbreak a lot. at 2:0 i ask them if they want to practice it a little. after a couple of tries they are actually becoming quite consistent at it. now all they have to do is keep practicing it to manage to pull it off in the heat of battle. do you notice the difference? those are the guys who may lack some hours in the game compared to me. but instead of ragequitting they keep trying to get better.

lets say the guy in the 2nd example is a warden too. i KNOW for a fact its a matter of time before i meet him and he beats me because he mastered counter guard breaking (which really is not hard), understands the orochi better and learned to counter it. or lets say i meet a warlord who seems new to the game or the class but he does not ragequit. i point them to a youtube channel that has good class guides. this guy is gonna beat me soon (warlords won all tournaments and will continue to do so unless a patch changes something) because he is gonna keep trying to improve and is willing to learn the basic mechanics. the guy from the first example however, who is UTTER **** at this game and still thinks he can formulate an experienced opinion about it by crying on the forums, that guy is never gonna be good at anything in life.

Toast_Addict
02-22-2017, 09:55 PM
orochi is far from overpowered. how about you guys turn on ANY decent twitch streamer and watch them and their opponents play. if they and the opponents know how to counter guardbreak, parry and feint, you can assume they are decent at for honor. then ask them if orochi is overpowered. the classes that are really overpowered are warden, warlord (wl won the recent tournaments), conq and shoguki. there is no question about it. ask anyone decent at this game.

your talking about top 20% right now.

20% can block all his attacks until he rolls away to safety. The main deal is he rewards LOW level of play. You need to learn ONE skill, swap attack directions, and you will have moderate success in online 4v4s.

He's not really OP (other than top heavy from GB), but you have to have better defense than him to win. Low level of play = everyones defense sucks.

G0BackT0G0
02-22-2017, 09:58 PM
your talking about top 20% right now.

20% can block all his attacks until he rolls away to safety. The main deal is he rewards LOW level of play. You need to learn ONE skill, swap attack directions, and you will have moderate success in online 4v4s.

He's not really OP (other than top heavy from GB), but you have to have better defense than him to win. Low level of play = everyones defense sucks.

so your advice to all the people complaining about orochi is "get decent at this game"?

storm rush must be the EASIEST ability to block or parry in this game. if it is too strong against new players there are 2 solutions: nerf basically EVERY attack since most if not ALL are harder to block than storm rush. or tell people to ****ing practice how to block the one ability that can be seen coming from a mile away. also, as i said, orochis only fast attacks are from top. now you COULD nerf the ability and would have to nerf all other fast attacks (PK comes to mind, and PK has more directions to throw fast(er) attacks from) or you could maybe, just maybe wait for even the last idiot to realize he needs to keep his guard at the top. against an orochi.

Starcanum
02-22-2017, 10:01 PM
your talking about top 20% right now.

20% can block all his attacks until he rolls away to safety. The main deal is he rewards LOW level of play. You need to learn ONE skill, swap attack directions, and you will have moderate success in online 4v4s.

He's not really OP (other than top heavy from GB), but you have to have better defense than him to win. Low level of play = everyones defense sucks.

That's the problem that devs face though, if you're trying to develop different classes with multitude of different aspects, you can't balance them at every skill level. If the game is balanced when everyone executes everything properly, then some classes will become overpowered on lower levels of play where people don't multitask, switch between offense and defense at the right times, know their enemies' strengths and weaknesses. And vice versa, if you balance the game around the suboptimal level of play, people who do everything (or close to everything) right will find some classes to be more skill-rewarding than others. That's why I feel the balance shouldn't ever be the main concern, fun is more important. And as of now, it's possible to have fun when you're matched against an equally-skilled opponent of any class.

Toast_Addict
02-22-2017, 10:07 PM
so your advice to all the people complaining about orochi is "get decent at this game"?

Im not a game designer dude........ idk how to make him "feel in line" with the others at multiple skill levels.

Im just saying why he is picked the most. He is really effective if they cant/fail to parry you, more so than any other char due to ease of use.

Edit:
Not to mention he's a cool/edgy character. Most "ninja like".

Allyrion8
02-22-2017, 10:20 PM
I don't think it is necessarily the character itself but how people play him. I am noticing, as I get into the higher tier battles, that players who play offensive characters (Assassins, etc) are playing like defense oriented characters. Instead of putting the pressure on their opponent with their speed and lunge strikes they just sit back and wait until you get bored enough to make the first move, which they just dodge and then attack with repetitive combos. What I think needs to happen is Ubisoft needs to observe how the characters classes they designed are actually being played instead of imagining hey are being played as they were designed and they can make some meaningful adjustments from those observations. I main a warden and I am a relatively slow character, even compared to other vanguards, and I can say I am about 75%/25% Wins and losses against these "Offensive" classes. I do however disagree that the Orochi should get a free top heavy if they grab, even as a warden and I am able to grab and opponent and immediately go into a side heavy (My fastest heavy attack) they are able to guard it before my swing connects.This issue may not be as relevant once they adjust the GB counter system to account for latency. The more I play, the better I get and the less I see any one specific hero as "OP". They all just take different methods to kill and you cannot spam the same kind of move set on each enemy you come across.

You do know that Orochi is designed as a counter attacker right? It's in his character description - "Agile, Counter-attacker". It describes him that way in his "How to Play" videos as well.

So that's actually how it's designed to be played. I think the reverse is the problem - at lower level play Orochi gets away with our offense due to their high attack speed which helps them dominate low ranks with just spamming.

Orochi needs a nerf to spamming but more mixups and a buff at the higher levels. It's too good at killing in the low levels of play and too bad in the higher ranks (since their move set is too limited).

xXl Plan B lXx
02-22-2017, 10:21 PM
I'm curious. Are you upset that you repeatedly got an opportunity to get better and didn't?


This ******** class is spammed.

In Dominion yesterday, out of 211 non-Bot opponents, 101 (48%) were playing Orochi. FORTY-EIGHT PERCENT!

Delectable_Sin
02-22-2017, 10:22 PM
Lawbringer here.

I don't think Orochi's are genuinely overpowered, but they are easy to use, have VERY quick attacks (compounded by high damage), can dash/dodge quickly, and have that completely BS GB-into-heavy that is unavoidable if you miss the CGB. I believe that is why many play the Orochi. He's simply easy and hella strong and definitely needs some attention in terms of balance. It's tough to defeat them 1v1 as a LB due to my slow guard changes and attack speed. They seem to just dodge backward or left/right all day, every day. And when you do hit them they just run away like a 6 y.o. girl that scraped her knee.

With all that said, I was in a game last night against 3 Orochi and 1 PK. Game. Over.

No offense but if you lose to any assassin as the LB you're doing it wrong.

D_cover
02-22-2017, 10:30 PM
Orochi is a very easy, forgiving class to play, at low to mid levels. Incredibly fast, high damage, combos that string together seemingly by accident, etc. His only main weaknesses are his throw range and health, which barely matters when you're outputting huge amounts of damage.

Basically, so much of the game's mechanics involve having good reaction time that it's easy for Orochi to just spam through people's defenses, because most people won't be able to react to a hailstorm of attacks, all the time.

Orochi is kind of trash at upper level play, but yeah, he's the king of noobs. Any time you make a character that's highly mobile with very fast attacks and high damage, you know what will happen. I find it hilarious that he's supposed to be a "counter attacker." Yeah, right.

Yeah isn't the Orochi difficulty class meant to be hard as well? Soon as you have side dash and light attack down you can pretty much dance around most vanguards.

Zyronos
02-22-2017, 10:37 PM
The idea for one character per team comes from a few other games, R6 siege and overwatch. These games use the system and no one complains about it. Overwatch also has some game modes what allow any number of the same character but their true competitive modes make it 1 character per team. It is one of the easiest ways to balance a class/character focused game.

It also really boils down to what kind of community you want. Yes doing this might cause people to walk away from the game, but who are the ones that will walk away the dedicated or the whinersame and which would you rather have playing.

As for the leaving a game I think ubisoft really needsorry to place a penalty system because the leave matches is already to much. I just played a game where everyone on both teams left and then half the group that entered the game in the middle left.

Toast_Addict
02-22-2017, 10:38 PM
Yeah isn't the Orochi difficulty class meant to be hard as well? Soon as you have side dash and light attack down you can pretty much dance around most vanguards.

It is..... at high lvl of play. All of his attacks are telegraphed so people with really good defense can shut him down as his stamina isn't that high.

but when you cant react fast enough to block his light chains then yeah, what you said.

neogeo___
02-22-2017, 11:12 PM
All I play is Orochi, and I can tell you that, while we have the tools to dance around the battlefield and constantly do damage, we're easily countered by guard breaks and parries. Learn to do those, especially guard breaks because:

"Guardbreak Counter (All Heroes):
Currently you can’t counter a guardbreak during a guardbreak attempt. This will be returned to the previous behavior seen in the Beta."

lmao

Every hero is counterable with GB. your point?

Orochi isn't even that bad to deal but how exactly would a parry be a counter to him? parry light parry light parry light? Also, Orochi's GB atm can even be activated on reaction to an opponent's GB and land first, plus his top light attack is one of the fastest in the game, hardly a decent counter tbh

Until they seriously tweak the assassin's class side dodge ability that is unbelievably forgiving (huge window in which you can use it and be successful to dodge an attack) this class will continue to be unbalanced. Timing to link chains should work under the same metric while removing the ability to mash time them. Stamina costs should also exist, decent ones at least.

Fast, high damage output classes with strong harassing move sets need precise timing and input to better relate reward to risk. If they are rewarding but easy to handle and to fall back to go in and out without real sense of opportunity that just takes away from the fun and nature of the genre but also does a lot for imbalance.

Hard counter them with a defender, namely warlord, they won't know what to do.

As for the rest, if not risking much, playing the wait game, you will die of old age or be afforded very few mistakes from a class that can afford a lot of them all things considered

neogeo___
02-22-2017, 11:19 PM
It is..... at high lvl of play. All of his attacks are telegraphed so people with really good defense can shut him down as his stamina isn't that high.

but when you cant react fast enough to block his light chains then yeah, what you said.

at very high lvl play everyone can easily tech GB and actively block

so shutting him down although helpful doesn't do a lot tbh

one would imagine that such a class if hit by a start up would at least need to block/parry/deflect to get out of the combo. This one needs only to dodge, and has a lot of time to do it and be successful, I imagine he can mash the button and hit the timing

balance meh, seems like a bs risk/reward ratio to me

Braegulfer
02-22-2017, 11:19 PM
Orochis don't scare me at all. A great warlord, warden, or shugoki? THAT'S scary ish.

CarnivalLaw
02-22-2017, 11:20 PM
The idea for one character per team comes from a few other games, R6 siege and overwatch. These games use the system and no one complains about it. Overwatch also has some game modes what allow any number of the same character but their true competitive modes make it 1 character per team. It is one of the easiest ways to balance a class/character focused game.

It also really boils down to what kind of community you want. Yes doing this might cause people to walk away from the game, but who are the ones that will walk away the dedicated or the whinersame and which would you rather have playing.

As for the leaving a game I think ubisoft really needsorry to place a penalty system because the leave matches is already to much. I just played a game where everyone on both teams left and then half the group that entered the game in the middle left.

Great point that some games already succeed with limiting the number of particular classes or characters per match.

Also, GREAT point that those who would leave over such a change are not folks we want around anyway.

GamingBotanist
02-22-2017, 11:23 PM
No that isn't a problem.

Assassins are easily punishable so they should have the ability to punish you just as hard.

I'd like to hear what you have to say on that. I play Warlord. What to you use?

neogeo___
02-22-2017, 11:35 PM
Did he actually say assassins are easily punishable?! lmao

Sure they are, if they keep trying to attack like maniacs and forget about the side dodge buttons

Assassins can dodge out of most chars combos after they hit the start up. where are they easily punishable? consider their opponents have to time their moves a lot more precisely than an assassin needs to time his while keeping his stance hidden and having the fastest attacks and stance switch speeds (making him the fastest attacker and defender), and still I feel like it's Xmas the fez times I see assassins going for blocks and parries and not relying on the side dodge wait game. Can't even remember the last time I saw an assassin even deflect or try to. Guess it's understandable, why even do it?

seriously. Did he ever play another class to understand what's going on here?

rafiqul84
02-22-2017, 11:45 PM
Do people seriously not realise how easy it is to parry the storm rush? Lol how about stop spamming heavies for one second and look at the Orochi player. If he is charging the most telegraphed move in the game thats your chance to get a free parry.

TBH_Saeko_Irri
02-22-2017, 11:45 PM
They are like cockroaches they are everywhere.
The game isn't punishing people who leveling the broken class because is so easy at this point so you can level up what ever you like and soon we all play orochis vs orochis love it 😀

G0BackT0G0
02-22-2017, 11:46 PM
Assassins can dodge out of most chars combos after they hit the start up. where are they easily punishable? consider their opponents have to time their moves a lot more precisely than an assassin needs to time his while keeping his stance hidden and having the fastest attacks and stance switch speeds (making him the fastest attacker and defender), and still I feel like it's Xmas the fez times I see assassins going for blocks and parries and not relying on the side dodge wait game. Can't even remember the last time I saw an assassin even deflect or try to. Guess it's understandable, why even do it?



dude if you got trouble with someone dodging you are doing it wrong.
feint into guard break? or if hes dodging away after getting hit by the first attack in your combo, simply follow up that hit by a guard break?
how is keeping the stance hidden an advantage? if you see him in top stance and suddenly his stance is hidden, he is in top stance, ldo.
there is no need to deflect because parry is the better option in most cases. which does nothing to you point of how op assassins are. if you think assassins do not need to block and parry you are playing at a VERY low level. there is nothing wrong with that, the problem starts when you clearly do not understand the mechanics of this game but think you can make wild claims on the forum.
also, orochis attacks are all slow, besides his top attacks, so again, you are clearly not understanding what you are talking about. just keep your ****ing guard at top, ffs.

neogeo___
02-23-2017, 12:24 PM
dude if you got trouble with someone dodging you are doing it wrong.
feint into guard break? or if hes dodging away after getting hit by the first attack in your combo, simply follow up that hit by a guard break?
how is keeping the stance hidden an advantage? if you see him in top stance and suddenly his stance is hidden, he is in top stance, ldo.
there is no need to deflect because parry is the better option in most cases. which does nothing to you point of how op assassins are. if you think assassins do not need to block and parry you are playing at a VERY low level. there is nothing wrong with that, the problem starts when you clearly do not understand the mechanics of this game but think you can make wild claims on the forum.
also, orochis attacks are all slow, besides his top attacks, so again, you are clearly not understanding what you are talking about. just keep your ****ing guard at top, ffs.

I thank you but I need no lesson in the mechanics nor am I attempting to get in to an internet piss contest.
I'm not God tier but I'm certainly high mmr, something that is afforded for playing fighting games for many years.

As for mechanics and your suggestion, if the assassins reaction after an attack or feint is side dodge light attack, then feint to GB is not an option since you will get hit. Option there is block/parry or if you are using a char like a warden it unbelievable tracking for his side lights you can attempt to hit the short timing and pull it off.

So for an assassin that sits back and waits relying on side dodge your options are narrow and greatly depend in match up, I have no problem if using a Warlord for example. Quick stance switch time and block counter moves, I'll bait the side dodge light into a combo start up and keep the pressure going and punish this playstyle hard. So defenders are the hard counter.

As for the rest and also majority of the none assassin/defender roster, the options are limited and highly dependent on timing. Something that should be the backbone of a assassin and counter-attacker class, but in this game just isn't


Funny how you'd try to pull the "git gud" argument on me. Might want to try and look at the whole game, play the rest of the classes and learn everything before having that kind of an attitude.

Cheers buddy, "git gud" yourself ;)


PS: And the mechanic that allows an assassin to dodge free of a light attack combo after being hit by the start up while still allowing him to attack is extremely stupid and only an unreasonable player would honestly argue in favor of it. You got hit, to stop the chain you should be required to interrupt it by either block, parry or deflect. Just like the rest of the classes. Not have a get out of jail free card.
Seriously.

MrForz
02-23-2017, 12:30 PM
I'm not sure there are that many Orochi "mains" bacause he's seemingly OP. Mostly has to do with the Yasuo syndrome. Many, many, many of them will perform terribly beyond redemption, but he's a lightning fast guy with quick attacks and a katana so it's a win in most of people's books.

AKDagriZ
02-23-2017, 02:54 PM
limit 2 hero per team .that would work .

I played 4 match in a row against kensei . Lost all of them -- so he is a plague

I play 20 rounds on custom match with my friends with infintite round.He beated me like 14 time with lawbringer --- hes a plaque

i also yesterday play 3 match against a skilled Warden -- he beat my *** 3 match --- he is a plague

in fact they are all plague if well used.

C.E.TON
02-23-2017, 02:59 PM
What can I say? We're awesome and fun to play.

This here is a man that has cough a the taste of the good life, and now he see all the salt starting to poor into his porridge. Worried its going to ruin it. Well sir fight the good fight and try your damndest to keep our Orochi's OP as hell. I kill Mo-Fo's and i also don't want it to change. There is a reason its is the number one class played. Its broken and people love to hit that easy button.

D_cover
02-24-2017, 01:02 AM
I think people are losing track of the problem that OP is saying. Yeah the are problems with how it has the fastest heavy attacks in the game. So yeah a little BS with the guard break and over head parry. The window to counter a guard break is near impossible unless you predict it and have your finger on the button ready.

The main issue is the amount that class is being played and is making the game rather repetitive. The should be a limit to two class per game in my opinion.

Getting ganked by 3 of them seems to be a common theme of late.

Classes need to be limited or something needs to change with the class to encourage people to try other ones. Because at this point playing Dominion is just a cluster **** of that class.