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View Full Version : Play a Fast Character to be Competitive.



xXBagsXx
02-21-2017, 06:59 PM
Just some thought I've gathered throughout playing.
I've played quite a bit of this game through the testing and since release with multiple characters and I can safely say at this point faster characters dominate the playing field, regardless of game mode.

The fact that even their quick attacks interrupt swings and combos makes them far above the toolset of the slower characters. Compounded with the fact that the slower class of characters raise their blocks at a slower rate than the fast characters can swing a quick attack in a combo chain, which makes a tank character have to rely on dodge as a form of defense against fast character which is pretty obviously heavily favored toward the speed.

I'm not saying that you can't be good with the slow characters or win with them, not at all, I'm just suggesting they are far inferior to the speedier move sets and faster characters that have a ton more tools in the box than them. In a game I thought was supposed to be about a level playing field and balance all the time this seems odd. At higher levels of play slow characters become almost obsolete against competent players.

Coming up against competent and highly skilled players using the fast characters like PK, Zerker, Oro, Valk means they can pretty much nullify or dodge any of your moves as a class such as lawbringer, raider, shugoki and to some extent even conqueror and warlord.

In conclusion I think it is much easier to be competitive and essentially 'good' at the game if you pick and use/learn a faster character.
The slower characters have a much higher learning curve when stacked against them (meaning- to be effective against other good players of all classes) and in almost all cases a much more limited toolset.

What does everyone else think?

YappysDaBeast
02-21-2017, 07:05 PM
All peacekeepers are pure cancer. Such a no brainer skill less class.
The funny thing is. They swing faster than you can block. As blocking has a little cooldown on keep changing direction.

Fuzzybutts
02-21-2017, 07:08 PM
Idk what your on about, Shugoki ruins people if you know how to time your charged heavy.

I mostly Main warlord now, I actually GAVE UP ON FASTER CLASSES in return for how strong some of the heavies are. Assassins barely see much going on at higher level play and only exist to stomp new players into the dirt and force them to learn game mechanics (albeit this can be toned down). If you take a look at Orochi/PK for example at higher levels of play, the majority of people can predict their every move. This is mostly due to assassins having a very limited moveset/kit in comparrison to other heroes.

Assassins in general do need changes and adjustments but not where people think they are. They need a higher skill-cieling that one can reach while also being less noob-stompy. Currently if you have played the game since alphas/betas you will be able to predict how an assassin will react to literally any situation. The only things they have to even attempt to mix things up vs other players is feinting heavy attacks, which can lead to disastrous results versus classes with uninterruptable attacks such as the shugoki/warlord/lawbringer. One bad feint = poof goes the HP bar.


Also not to mention Shugo/Warlord have light attacks that are faster than those that assassins put out. Its kinda crazy.

PackingMoney
02-21-2017, 07:09 PM
All peacekeepers are pure cancer. Such a no brainer skill less class.
The funny thing is. They swing faster than you can block. As blocking has a little cooldown on keep changing direction.

Not all of them are. I have had some compliments about how I play her.

NeoVidia
02-21-2017, 07:14 PM
Gonna have to say no. You can easily get to a high skill level with a slow character, but you will have master mechanics like parry/block/gaurdbreak.

As a fast character blocks and parry's kill me, and as a slow character dodges and chasing will make me cry as well. But playing on both sides, I can definitely handle the same skill level with fast and slow. Some times slow is even easier, because fast are very risk reward, so ****ing up or getting parried twice in a fight will hurt.

Slow characters require a complete different play-style but are not in inferior.
Also, the raising the gaurd thing is animation only, its pretty much instant in practice, and the same for every character. The only difference is that assassins have gaurd decay so the can't keep gaurd up in 1 direction(pun intended)

Fast characters are currently "the jam" as the kids say. Because they can easily spam attacks and are hard to get a foothold against. The better people you find, the harder a faster character will be compared to a slow one.

YappysDaBeast
02-21-2017, 07:15 PM
As a lawbringer. peacekeeper is the only character that is a huge problem for me.
They feint attacks and hit another direction (I'm on cooldown on block direction) by time the 2nd attack connects to me.
Only class I cannot parry is a peacekeeper unless they come from the front with a jump attack.

Either their attacks need a slight speed reduction or classes need their block time increased.
I've never been so obliterated in a 1v1 by any class than a peaceekeeper. Even the low level peacekeepers are a huge problem.

Peacekeepers don't even need their bleed back to how it was. That was the only time a peacekeeper would make themselves vulnerable is when they came close for an attentive guard-break.

The only way do defeat a peacekeeper as a lawbringer is. Shove > Guard Break > Heavy > Shove > Guard break > heavy.

If you use any light attacks or heavy attacks. You will utterly destroy yourself as they will dodge and make you sorry for even trying to swing.
Feinting a heavy attack, by time you cancel the heavy and go for another directional swing. They have already landed 2 hits on you.

It's even worse in gear based games, when 2 attacks take you down to 50% HP and with bleed ontop of that.

Hackfraysn
02-21-2017, 07:16 PM
Just some thought I've gathered throughout playing.
I've played quite a bit of this game through the testing and since release with multiple characters and I can safely say at this point faster characters dominate the playing field, regardless of game mode.

The fact that even their quick attacks interrupt swings and combos makes them far above the toolset of the slower characters. Compounded with the fact that the slower class of characters raise their blocks at a slower rate than the fast characters can swing a quick attack in a combo chain, which makes a tank character have to rely on dodge as a form of defense against fast character which is pretty obviously heavily favored toward the speed.

I'm not saying that you can't be good with the slow characters or win with them, not at all, I'm just suggesting they are far inferior to the speedier move sets and faster characters that have a ton more tools in the box than them. In a game I thought was supposed to be about a level playing field and balance all the time this seems odd. At higher levels of play slow characters become almost obsolete against competent players.

Coming up against competent and highly skilled players using the fast characters like PK, Zerker, Oro, Valk means they can pretty much nullify or dodge any of your moves as a class such as lawbringer, raider, shugoki and to some extent even conqueror and warlord.

In conclusion I think it is much easier to be competitive and essentially 'good' at the game if you pick and use/learn a faster character.
The slower characters have a much higher learning curve when stacked against them (meaning- to be effective against other good players of all classes) and in almost all cases a much more limited toolset.

What does everyone else think?

Yeah, I agree. It's easier to win with speedier classes, especially considering some sluggish characters like Raider and Lawbringer only have 1/3rd of your guardswitch speed. Simple light attack spam can absolutely decimate everybody not quick enough and it might even carry you up to high tier skill level, since most intermediate players can't handle that kind of pressure consistently. The superior dodge is just icing on the cake. However, you're also squishier and the character is less forgiving, when you fudge up.

If you don't want to play a Cheesekeeper or Cockroachi, you can go Kensei and you'll have everything you need except the superb assassin dodge. And you'll even learn to play the game properly.

YappysDaBeast
02-21-2017, 07:25 PM
The only people who don't agree with how Peacekeeper currently works are the people who play her 24/7. She does not fit in the current combat system.
No other of the fast characters are as deadly. A peacekeeper can just stand right in your face and spam light attacks with feint and destroy you.

None of the other fast classes are even in the current league as peacekeeper currently.
Peacekeeper doesn't get much punishment for bad placement or mistakes. Zerker/Orochi will be dead if they are making mistakes.

The playstyle really needs to change on peacekeeper to fit into the games current state.

xXBagsXx
02-21-2017, 07:36 PM
Also, the raising the gaurd thing is animation only, its pretty much instant in practice, and the same for every character. The only difference is that assassins have gaurd decay so the can't keep gaurd up in 1 direction(pun intended)

.

This is incorrect. There is cool down between switching guard sides and the speed differs depending on the character classification. So an assassin can swing quick attack combos faster than a slower character can change their guard to the appropriate side.

xXBagsXx
02-21-2017, 07:39 PM
As a lawbringer. peacekeeper is the only character that is a huge problem for me.
They feint attacks and hit another direction (I'm on cooldown on block direction) by time the 2nd attack connects to me.
Only class I cannot parry is a peacekeeper unless they come from the front with a jump attack.

Either their attacks need a slight speed reduction or classes need their block time increased.
I've never been so obliterated in a 1v1 by any class than a peaceekeeper. Even the low level peacekeepers are a huge problem.

Peacekeepers don't even need their bleed back to how it was. That was the only time a peacekeeper would make themselves vulnerable is when they came close for an attentive guard-break.

The only way do defeat a peacekeeper as a lawbringer is. Shove > Guard Break > Heavy > Shove > Guard break > heavy.

If you use any light attacks or heavy attacks. You will utterly destroy yourself as they will dodge and make you sorry for even trying to swing.
Feinting a heavy attack, by time you cancel the heavy and go for another directional swing. They have already landed 2 hits on you.

It's even worse in gear based games, when 2 attacks take you down to 50% HP and with bleed ontop of that.

This is exactly what I am talking about and have experience the same thing. The Peacekeeper move set essentially nullifies the Lawbringer move set and it obviously isn't supposed to be like that.

And that isn't the only instance either

VillNess
02-21-2017, 08:26 PM
I see there's bunch of Peacekeeper hate here so I'd ask you all this: Is there a way I can play as an Peacekeeper and not feel **** about myself?

For me in a game aesthestics are really important and I have always loved fast characters (in any fiction, and real life too) and once I saw Peacekeeper in character selection when I opened up Closed Beta (at that time I knew nothing about the game too) I knew that's the character I'm focusing on. At first I loved the game, loved playing as Peacekeeper and I fell in love with the game. Then I checked the forums... "PK sucks" "PK OP" "PK" "PK""PK""PK". I then realised the reason I didn't lose every match is because I'm playing an OP character... I started to observe and read the forums and found out that the biggest problem was the Grab and Stab abuse. I hadn't used that move that much but then I quit using it at all. I still felt like **** everytime I won and couldn't really enjoy the game to it's fullest. Sure I could change the character but the others don't appeal to me that much so I just sticked with PK. I started using as much diversity as possible and learning how to parry etc. To this day I still have the "I feel sht" syndrome of playing as an Peacekeeper, the OP character, and I'd like to know is there a way I can play as her and not think of the sht?

TLDR: I feel sht playing as PK, the OP character, and I'd like to know a way to play as her without feeling sht, thanks for the replies.

PackingMoney
02-21-2017, 08:28 PM
I see there's bunch of Peacekeeper hate here so I'd ask you all this: Is there a way I can play as an Peacekeeper and not feel **** about myself?

For me in a game aesthestics are really important and I have always loved fast characters (in any fiction, and real life too) and once I saw Peacekeeper in character selection when I opened up Closed Beta (at that time I knew nothing about the game too) I knew that's the character I'm focusing on. At first I loved the game, loved playing as Peacekeeper and I fell in love with the game. Then I checked the forums... "PK sucks" "PK OP" "PK" "PK""PK""PK". I then realised the reason I didn't lose every match is because I'm playing an OP character... I started to observe and read the forums and found out that the biggest problem was the Grab and Stab abuse. I hadn't used that move that much but then I quit using it at all. I still felt like **** everytime I won and couldn't really enjoy the game to it's fullest. Sure I could change the character but the others don't appeal to me that much so I just sticked with PK. I started using as much diversity as possible and learning how to parry etc. To this day I still have the "I feel sht" syndrome of playing as an Peacekeeper, the OP character, and I'd like to know is there a way I can play as her and not think of the sht?

TLDR: I feel sht playing as PK, the OP character, and I'd like to know a way to play as her without feeling sht, thanks for the replies.

I agree with this. It makes me feel bad when someone says she is too good or OP. Or when someone says she is just a noob by spamming lights (which I don't do btw). That's the reason I reply a lot, to try and justify that I am not a scummy PK.

Brave_Thunder
02-21-2017, 08:30 PM
If you don't want to play a Cheesekeeper or Cockroachi, you can go Kensei and you'll have everything you need except the superb assassin dodge. And you'll even learn to play the game properly.

I took at prestige 1 orochi,pk and then kensei,decided to main kensei at the end.Maybe it's just because I don't like to just mash the light button(I'm more focussed on getting parrys)but he's way more powerfull than any of the assassins.Side step attack,good damages and range.Dunno why he never gets hate while people cry seas of salt about orochi and pk.

As a side question,how you know when you get into "high level play",since we have no ladder yet?

RLTygurr
02-21-2017, 08:37 PM
I'll agree PK needs a bit of adjustment, not necessarily on her attack speed in general, but her reaction speed out of a feint. I've seen PK players be able pressure all 3 angles constantly. They can attack fast, but that isn't necessarily the problem, even with me playing Lawbringer (who has a slow block stance change).

Her zone attack is literally too fast for the human mind to react to unless you predict it. Not only that, but she can immediately cancel the second, slower hit into an instant combo or a guard break that you pretty much can't see coming. Once they fix her guard break triple stab, she's going to become broken again. As it stands she still out-speeds every other character by landslides and also does considerably more damage than most others.

Even a lot of PK players admit that it's ridiculous, and I'll agree that she shouldn't be able to cancel her zone attack either A) at all or B) anywhere near as early in the animation.

Warden zone attack also needs a bit of readjustment, but I don't think it's anywhere near as abuseable.

xXBagsXx
02-21-2017, 08:43 PM
I would equate high level play to knowing and understanding all the game mechanics, knowing and understanding your chosen character's moveset as well as knowing and understanding the enemy character's moveset. And the enemy player knows and understands these things as well too and didn't just buy the game 20 minutes ago.

It's not a question of who's better on a ladder but if equally skilled players are matched and it's still a handicapped match depending on the character choices. That means balancing suffers somewhere and needs work.

In a lot of cases it's not even the class that's the problem so don't feel like a POS for playing it, the problem is but one particular move or the other that a group of people just exploit the crap out of instead of learning everything else.