PDA

View Full Version : Spitfire flap wooden wedges must be modeled! :-)



Alexi_Alx_Anova
02-13-2004, 05:48 AM
This comes from J. E. ('Johnnie') Johnson. Full Circle The Story of Air Fighting (ISBN:0-304-35860-6)

He is discussing Spitfires on Malta (don't know what models they are).

"The drawback to the Spitfire for such short take-off was that the landing flaps had only two positions - up, or fully down at an angle of ninety degrees to the under surface of the wing. Later, a simple but ingenious system was devised to enable the pilot to set the flap to provide extra lift for take-off without increasing the drag too much; wooden wedges were inserted between the flap and the wing, so giving the required setting of fifteen degrees. After take-off the pilot would lower the flap to the full extent, the wedges would drop out and the flap would then be fully raised. The system was used with success on future reinforcement flights to Malta."

I demand Oleg models wooden wedges in Ace and BoB! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I want to see those wedges drop! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

Alexi_Alx_Anova
02-13-2004, 05:48 AM
This comes from J. E. ('Johnnie') Johnson. Full Circle The Story of Air Fighting (ISBN:0-304-35860-6)

He is discussing Spitfires on Malta (don't know what models they are).

"The drawback to the Spitfire for such short take-off was that the landing flaps had only two positions - up, or fully down at an angle of ninety degrees to the under surface of the wing. Later, a simple but ingenious system was devised to enable the pilot to set the flap to provide extra lift for take-off without increasing the drag too much; wooden wedges were inserted between the flap and the wing, so giving the required setting of fifteen degrees. After take-off the pilot would lower the flap to the full extent, the wedges would drop out and the flap would then be fully raised. The system was used with success on future reinforcement flights to Malta."

I demand Oleg models wooden wedges in Ace and BoB! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I want to see those wedges drop! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

Rajvosa
02-13-2004, 06:01 AM
Bump! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

http://stu.wccnet.org/~ecrnovrs/inp150/finalp/sarajevo1/images/sarajevo.jpg

Alexi_Alx_Anova
02-13-2004, 06:11 AM
Thanks for bumping Rajvosa, but you only need to do that when the thread is about to fall off the bottom of the page.

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

JG5_Scorpius
02-13-2004, 06:15 AM
These wedges were only used when taking off from aircraft carriers as far as I know. Are we getting aircraft carriers in BOB?

Scorpius

Rajvosa
02-13-2004, 06:20 AM
Ah, point taken! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Well, as long as Oleg doesn't overmodels those wedges... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://stu.wccnet.org/~ecrnovrs/inp150/finalp/sarajevo1/images/sarajevo.jpg

SpinSpinSugar
02-13-2004, 06:50 AM
Yes, these are also mentioned in Geoffrey Wellum's book First Light.

Not navalised Seafires but ordinary Spit Mk.Vbs (maybe with the tropical filters?) were flown off the deck of carriers to reinforce Malta with wooden wedges in their flaps to give enough lift. Even then they needed a hefty headwind to get airbourne in such a short distance, and they had to take delivery of improved props to give the necessary RPM.

On at least one carrier they also had to contend with a ramp three quarters the way down the deck, designed for the much shorter takeoff and landing roll of biplanes, which threw them into the air before proper flying speed was acheived.

He also mentions it was a risky process for the fitters inserting the wedges, as they had to be held in place until "gripped" by the raising flap - dangerous for their fingers.

Cheers, SSS

ELEM
02-13-2004, 06:52 AM
Now that is interesting, and clever. I'm off to Malta next week (diving trip) so if I see any wooden wedges lying around I'll know where they've come from!!

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

Willi_Wombat
02-13-2004, 06:59 AM
Bump!

Because you're standing on my foot!

WW

Alexi_Alx_Anova
02-13-2004, 07:20 AM
Hey ELEM, if you find any wedges (not potato), take some photos for skinning purposes! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

horseback
02-13-2004, 08:34 AM
The Spitfires Mk Vb and Vc that were launched from carriers needed the wedges not so much because they had poor short takeoff ability, but because they were equipped with Ferry tanks in order to allow their launch without extreme risk to the carriers. They were launching these Spits over 400 miles from Malta, with all the fuel and pilots' kit the things could theoretically take off with, so they really needed the extra lift the wedges conferred. They didn't have the structural strength or fittings required for a catapult launch (and catapult launches involved a time penalty in a target zone, so it was a bad idea all around).

Remember, at this point in the war, LW bombers and Italian torpedo bombers were making the Med a very unsafe place for Allied ships, and the USN had a very limited number of carriers at the time (WASP and RANGER were being used on these missions, as well as RN carriers). The launches would take place as far out to sea from any potential attackers' base and still be within range for the Spits to reach Malta.

There was at least one occasion where a Spit had engine troubles after takeoff, and landed back on the carrier WASP. The pilot was duly awarded US Naval aviator's wings by the LSO, LCDR David McCampbell, who would eventually go on to distinguish himself in another way...

Cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-13-2004, 09:26 AM
Be sure to mail Oleg on this one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/JaVAPlatypus-1java.JPG (http://www.1java.org)

Alexi_Alx_Anova
02-13-2004, 09:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
Be sure to mail Oleg on this one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is going to be such an uber-topic that I'm sure Oleg will soon hear about it. Forget quibbling FW190 forward views and overmodeled climb rates, we need historically accurate wooden wedges! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

Dunkelgrun
02-13-2004, 10:06 AM
Aaargh! Wedge-whiners! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers!

http://www.uploadit.org/igmusapa/tft2.jpg
www.nightbomber.com (http://www.nightbomber.com)

biggs222
02-13-2004, 10:59 AM
i read somewhere that when the spits took off from the carrier with the wedges they would turn back around after taking off and "bomb" the deck crew in order to return the wedges http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif