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Lt.Davis
08-30-2004, 08:39 PM
I have found this, maybe it's been bring up before.

The MK103 was developed together with the MK 108: The MK103 was a high-velocity weapon to attack bombers from a distance, and for ground attack; the MK108 was a low-velocity weapon for single-seat fighters. The MK108 was much lighter (only 64kg) and cheaper (because it used many stamped parts).

The MK103 (MK for "Maschinenkanone") was broadly based on the earlier MK101, but its operation was changed to partially gas-operated (a gas pistoon was used to unlock the breech block) and it used electrically-fired ammunition instead of percussion-fired ammunition.

The MK103 weighed 146kg, against 178kg for the MK101, and fired at 420rpm (against 250rpm) with a similar muzzle velocity (860m/sec). It used 30 x 184B ammunition similar to that of the MK101. At the end the Germans seem to have used downloaded ammunition (with a lower muzzle velocity) to compensate for a shortage of strong alloys, and weaker guns.

The ammunition types developed were "Hartkern", AP with a tungsten core, and "Minengeschoss", a thin drawn shell with a large HE/I load. The former for ground-attack aircraft, the latter for use against bombers.

There was also a MK103M version for mounting on the engine, i.e. firing through the propeller hub. This had a different design for the gas duct (the standard gas duct did not fit in the tube running between the cylinder banks of German V-12 engines) and no muzzle brake (same reason). The MK103M seems to have been less reliable than the standard version.

The MK103 was installed in a few Fw 190 ground-attack aircraft (wings), in an experimental Me 262 (nose), the prototypes for the Ta 152C-3 (engine), in some Do 335s (engine and wings), and possibly in a handful of Bf 109K fighters (engine).

original post.
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/mk103.html

"Biar berputih tulang, jangan berputih mata"
Translated:
"Let the whites of your bones, but do not show the whites of your eyes"

Lt.Davis
08-30-2004, 08:39 PM
I have found this, maybe it's been bring up before.

The MK103 was developed together with the MK 108: The MK103 was a high-velocity weapon to attack bombers from a distance, and for ground attack; the MK108 was a low-velocity weapon for single-seat fighters. The MK108 was much lighter (only 64kg) and cheaper (because it used many stamped parts).

The MK103 (MK for "Maschinenkanone") was broadly based on the earlier MK101, but its operation was changed to partially gas-operated (a gas pistoon was used to unlock the breech block) and it used electrically-fired ammunition instead of percussion-fired ammunition.

The MK103 weighed 146kg, against 178kg for the MK101, and fired at 420rpm (against 250rpm) with a similar muzzle velocity (860m/sec). It used 30 x 184B ammunition similar to that of the MK101. At the end the Germans seem to have used downloaded ammunition (with a lower muzzle velocity) to compensate for a shortage of strong alloys, and weaker guns.

The ammunition types developed were "Hartkern", AP with a tungsten core, and "Minengeschoss", a thin drawn shell with a large HE/I load. The former for ground-attack aircraft, the latter for use against bombers.

There was also a MK103M version for mounting on the engine, i.e. firing through the propeller hub. This had a different design for the gas duct (the standard gas duct did not fit in the tube running between the cylinder banks of German V-12 engines) and no muzzle brake (same reason). The MK103M seems to have been less reliable than the standard version.

The MK103 was installed in a few Fw 190 ground-attack aircraft (wings), in an experimental Me 262 (nose), the prototypes for the Ta 152C-3 (engine), in some Do 335s (engine and wings), and possibly in a handful of Bf 109K fighters (engine).

original post.
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/mk103.html

"Biar berputih tulang, jangan berputih mata"
Translated:
"Let the whites of your bones, but do not show the whites of your eyes"

Dammerung
08-31-2004, 12:12 AM
The Mk103 is an INCREDIBLE weapon. Slap some Mk103 Gunpods on your A-8/A-9 the next time you take a 190 out. You will Blast anything out of the sky in one or two hits. No questions asked. And Shooting's a lot easier than with the Mk108, as it's not just an Aerial Grenade Launcher, it's an actual Cannon. When hit by a Mk103 Shell you have one option- Bend over and kiss *** goodbye while your airplane goes down in Flames.

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

WUAF_Badsight
08-31-2004, 12:15 AM
Mk108 has always been the better A2A weapon in FB & RL over the Mk108

greater flat trajectory & greater hit power

its lenght made it impossible to mount on the nose of a AC

its weight affected the performance when fitted to the wings of a AC

.
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Lt.Davis
08-31-2004, 12:36 AM
The weight of MK103 (146kg) and MK108 (only 64kg) different by 82 kg, more than half and extra few rounds of ammo. If 190 can carry 2 MK103, i'll change to 4x MK108. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

How many actually a 109 carry MK108 rounds of ammunition? 20 rounds? And how's the performance of a 109 which carry 2x MK108 gunpod? I should try it tonite.

"Biar berputih tulang, jangan berputih mata"
Translated:
"Let the whites of your bones, but do not show the whites of your eyes"

WTE_Galway
08-31-2004, 01:11 AM
check the picture below !!

they are the same round .. the mk108 just has less propellant and a cheaper stamped metal rather than cast gun

the MK103 IRL was the better weapon

in the original IL2 the MK103 ruled .. you could snipe at bombers from 600 metres away and take them out in one hit

my observations in FB are that BOTH guns were severely down powered in teh original box release but in patches since then the MK108 has improved while the mk103 remains under powered .. resulting in the historically inaccurate situation where mk108s are better than mk103's



http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgCjGE4X2Id3BKw19!arygqA5dMWLcwm4J7gALgcRNNV!o!rv oZ53hcr1hlEz!Kp5E8mW697AmZd0wirwcRRmhsD8EVS7dtfJj9 bH6N32HVPxJT8Xol4ow/aircraftrounds.jpg

Lt.Davis
08-31-2004, 01:14 AM
no wonder i feel the MK108 are stronger. But in actual fact it should be MK103 more powerful than MK108.

Thanks Galway for the info.

"Biar berputih tulang, jangan berputih mata"
Translated:
"Let the whites of your bones, but do not show the whites of your eyes"

WTE_Galway
08-31-2004, 02:05 AM
i must actually sit down and do some tests and see if it is really like that or just an illusion

there are a number of reasons to prefer the mk108 over the mk103 including better ROF and a more manouverable aircraft .. but that is beside the point .. a single hit from a MK103 should do more damage than a single hit from a MK108 and my impression in game without doing controlled testing is that it is the other way around

Kartveli
08-31-2004, 11:55 AM
Nice pic...I have one with all the german rounds lines up, but in B&W, and just not as good quality...

the Mk108 had light weight and relativly high ROF vs the Mk103, but yea, the Mk103 has much much higher velocity...the Mk103 is the sheit!