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View Full Version : What is with this matchmaking?!?



HyperchillTV
02-20-2017, 04:27 PM
I played Shugoki and got him to prestige 2. Now when I try to play different characters(because I'm bored of the Shugoki) I'm matched with prestige 3+ max gear or close to it TEAMS and just get stomped. I went into a game with a max gear score Kensei I was a peacekeeper with a gear score of 1. I unleashed a full combo and did half of his first health bar in damage. We reset the fight and he 2 shot me. It's so disheartening to lose matches because you're at such a disadvantage. Dominion is the most played game mode. If they don't make the matchmaking more low level/low gear score friendly this game won't last long. That's something that should have been resolved before launch, but now it need to be fixed ASAP. I can only imagine what the experience is like for brand new players and it's only been 2 weeks. If I were a new player I would have little motivation to stick around this game. 1vs1 matches take forever to Q. You get next to nothing for 1vs1 vs AI. Who wants to grind 4vs4 vs AI that also takes forever to find a match. I don't care how good a game is you can't sustain a game with no new player base. It's impossible, even the most hardcore fan of this game will stop playing eventually and there will be next to no one to take his or her place simply due to the nature of this games matchmaking system?

PackingMoney
02-20-2017, 04:29 PM
I played Shugoki and got him to prestige 2. Now when I try to play different characters(because I'm bored of the Shugoki) I'm matched with prestige 3+ max gear or close to it TEAMS and just get stomped. I went into a game with a max gear score Kensei I was a peacekeeper with a gear score of 1. I unleashed a full combo and did half of his first health bar in damage. We reset the fight and he 2 shot me. It's so disheartening to lose matches because you're at such a disadvantage. Dominion is the most played game mode. If they don't make the matchmaking more low level/low gear score friendly this game won't last long. That's something that should have been resolved before launch, but now it need to be fixed ASAP. I can only imagine what the experience is like for brand new players and it's only been 2 weeks. If I were a new player I would have little motivation to stick around this game. 1vs1 matches take forever to Q. You get next to nothing for 1vs1 vs AI. Who wants to grind 4vs4 vs AI that also takes forever to find a match. I don't care how good a game is you can't sustain a game with no new player base. It's impossible, even the most hardcore fan of this game will stop playing eventually and there will be next to no one to take his or her place simply due to the nature of this games matchmaking system?

They are not going to match you against newbies when you are rep 2 on one character are they. It seems like you are complaining that you are getting stomped, but by your argument, you want to stomp others.

Kav0rk4
02-20-2017, 04:33 PM
I keep hearing this argument and it's so unbelievably flawed.

I seriously cannot comprehend how people don't understand this simple thing.



How the hell is the matchmaking system supposed to know which character you're going to pick before you join a game???

Powermolch
02-20-2017, 04:36 PM
Gearscore is a problem. Especially for new Players, new Characters against Wallet Warriors at this stage. Yesterday we had a group of prestige 0 - 1 people and had Prestige 3 GS 108 Enemies. For Example, a Nobushi who got Revenge after a hadnful of blocks and then did 74 dmg per Area Attack. Really Fun to play against.
I know Gearscore isnt taken into Matchmaking, but why you give us Settings and dont let us change them. Why cant we play 4vs4 without Gear if we want to, and waiting for other players who look for the same settings aka Battle expirience? Just let us do the Battles we want.

HyperchillTV
02-20-2017, 04:39 PM
That's the thing you should Q with your character picked. I mean it makes sense to me but maybe I'm just stupid. And by your argument you are saying no one should try new characters for fear of getting their s*** kicked in repeatedly do to unbalanced gear scores. Then why even put in anymore characters if we are gonna be punished for exploring?

Angier.
02-20-2017, 04:39 PM
I keep hearing this argument and it's so unbelievably flawed.

I seriously cannot comprehend how people don't understand this simple thing.



How the hell is the matchmaking system supposed to know which character you're going to pick before you join a game???

It goes by overall prestige points accumulated.

Zemus-
02-20-2017, 04:45 PM
It goes by overall prestige points accumulated.

And that in on itself is flawed. Prestige only means you play the game a lot and does not mean you are a skilled player. This is where Ranked Play will help when it finally gets around to being released but as it stands now in 4v4 modes Gearscore is all that matters and I think you should have to pick a character before you queue because were at a point right now where I don't find this game fun at all 4v4 anymore because matchmaking is broken.

I really like this game and want it to succeed but when my friends and I get matched up with non stop premades at 108 and were 40-50 you might as well just Alt-F4 those weapons are so powerful it doesn't matter how much skill you have as a player, you have to have a perfect encounter wihtout getting hit in order to win and that is not balance so I find myself outside of orders just staying inside Duels and Brawls because at least those modes are based on skill and not gear

Kav0rk4
02-20-2017, 04:49 PM
Yeah, but that's the point. This is casual matchmaking. Have you ever played a MMORPG?

You're not playing ranked, it isn't meant to be 100% balanced.

I mean come on, you're playing a game mode where most of the time you're fighting people 1v3, the kind of people that will turn around and run in a 1v1 when they're losing.

You really expect perfect balance?

Not to mention, when you see a low rank character in a game like that, you don't know whether or not they have a 5 prestige on a different one.




Seriously 90% of these whine threads could be fixed by just telling people to GIT GUD (and stop whining).

DrinkinMehStella
02-20-2017, 04:56 PM
I keep hearing this argument and it's so unbelievably flawed.

I seriously cannot comprehend how people don't understand this simple thing.



How the hell is the matchmaking system supposed to know which character you're going to pick before you join a game???

That is very true, maybe ubisoft should let you pick your character before the match make.

Kav0rk4
02-20-2017, 04:56 PM
I'd also like to mention that gear doesn't mean **** to be honest.

I've beated max level gear people in 1v1 so many times..

Seriously, stop interfering in perfectly balanced 1v1s (unless you know for sure you will get a hit off), learn how to counter people in revenge mode and MAYBE you'll do better.

People are so fast to start blaming everyone else (Ubisoft, gear, lag, a ****ing mosquito, a dog barking,...) instead of realizing they're just not playing their best, and can improve.

GIT

GUD

Zemus-
02-20-2017, 04:58 PM
Yeah, but that's the point. This is casual matchmaking. Have you ever played a MMORPG?

You're not playing ranked, it isn't meant to be 100% balanced.

I mean come on, you're playing a game mode where most of the time you're fighting people 1v3, the kind of people that will turn around and run in a 1v1 when they're losing.

You really expect perfect balance?

Not to mention, when you see a low rank character in a game like that, you don't know whether or not they have a 5 prestige on a different one.




Seriously 90% of these whine threads could be fixed by just telling people to GIT GUD (and stop whining).

Git Gud is what people say when they have no argument against something they do not themselves encounter or are part of the issue so they don't see it. There is no debate in skill vs gear in 4v4

I have an 86% win Rate I know how to play the game but a Max Attack Weapon trumps all skill no matter how good you are at defense play because 1 hit and you are essentially finished against most of the classes. Yes its casual matchmaking but even MMO's have TIers in basic matchmaking based on Level, Gearscore, ect.. At least the good ones do like FFXIV.

Balance will never be perfect, but Ubi can easily make a system that does matchmaking. Right now the system does nothing it just puts anyone queues into a game there is nothing else, If there was we would see it and seeing as almost all matches consist of Non Prestiage characters constatly getting matched up with Purple/Gold High level people yes the system is completely broken

HyperchillTV
02-20-2017, 05:02 PM
Yeah, but that's the point. This is casual matchmaking. Have you ever played a MMORPG?

You're not playing ranked, it isn't meant to be 100% balanced.

I mean come on, you're playing a game mode where most of the time you're fighting people 1v3, the kind of people that will turn around and run in a 1v1 when they're losing.

You really expect perfect balance?

Not to mention, when you see a low rank character in a game like that, you don't know whether or not they have a 5 prestige on a different one.




Seriously 90% of these whine threads could be fixed by just telling people to GIT GUD (and stop whining).

You must REALLY want to see this game fail. Because your argument and attitude about balance and fairness in a game that people have to pay at least 60$ to play is gonna kill this player base. I mean this is not a free to play game. If I'm paying money then YES I want BALANCED matchmaking. A free to play game could get away with something like this because new people will almost always come and play because ''it's free why not'' but you have to pay for this game. I don't know about you but if I'm PAYING I want it to WORK as intended and if this is what Ubisoft intended then I would not recommend this game to anyone. Because do to gear score and prestige based matchmaking you are basically class locked so the first one you play better be the one you want to main as far as 4vs4 is concerned. That is STUPID!

Thanapetus
02-20-2017, 05:02 PM
Git Gud is what people say when they have no argument against something they do not themselves encounter or are part of the issue so they don't see it. There is no debate in skill vs gear in 4v4

I have an 86% win Rate I know how to play the game but a Max Attack Weapon trumps all skill no matter how good you are at defense play because 1 hit and you are essentially finished against most of the classes. Yes its casual matchmaking but even MMO's have TIers in basic matchmaking based on Level, Gearscore, ect.. At least the good ones do like FFXIV.

Balance will never be perfect, but Ubi can easily make a system that does matchmaking. Right now the system does nothing it just puts anyone queues into a game there is nothing else, If there was we would see it and seeing as almost all matches consist of Non Prestiage characters constatly getting matched up with Purple/Gold High level people yes the system is completely broken

Most of the people who say GIT GUD, play orochi, Nobushi, Peacekeepers.....

That and I would venture half of this forum has some cartoon fetish with Japan

Kav0rk4
02-20-2017, 05:13 PM
You must REALLY want to see this game fail. Because your argument and attitude about balance and fairness in a game that people have to pay at least 60$ to play is gonna kill this player base. I mean this is not a free to play game. If I'm paying money then YES I want BALANCED matchmaking. A free to play game could get away with something like this because new people will almost always come and play because ''it's free why not'' but you have to pay for this game. I don't know about you but if I'm PAYING I want it to WORK as intended and if this is what Ubisoft intended then I would not recommend this game to anyone. Because do to gear score and prestige based matchmaking you are basically class locked so the first one you play better be the one you want to main as far as 4vs4 is concerned. That is STUPID!


But it is balanced, to an extent at least.

Unless the only reason you were good on your original 3/4/5 reputation character was only because of good gear. And so now that you changed characters and are playing with inferior items, you suck again, especially against ones with good gear.

Like I said, I can easily beat most better geared people in a 1v1 scenario, easily.

Not to mention you can practice your play first in 1v1/2v2.



Let me explain this even clearer, because I feel like you still won't understand.

Playing as long as you have to play to get a few prestige levels, you are expected to learn the basic mechanics of the game, like parrying guaranteeing a guardbreak, or GBing after your enemy GBs and misses, and so on.

These mechanics work on all the characters. So when you change your char to one with a different gear level, you should still be able to play on almost the same level (apart from some specific situations like being better equipped vs multiple people (revenge builds) or not being able to one shot people with only 1 bar of HP remaining with certain attacks (attack builds) and so on).


Not to mention that, I assume that matchmaking doesn't take gear into account very much when looking for a game, it's more likely a hidden MMR rating (as most other games do also).


Again, stop blaming everyone else for your incompetence and learn how to play better.

gkwaylander
02-20-2017, 05:14 PM
I played Shugoki and got him to prestige 2. Now when I try to play different characters(because I'm bored of the Shugoki) I'm matched with prestige 3+ max gear or close to it TEAMS and just get stomped. I went into a game with a max gear score Kensei I was a peacekeeper with a gear score of 1. I unleashed a full combo and did half of his first health bar in damage. We reset the fight and he 2 shot me. It's so disheartening to lose matches because you're at such a disadvantage. Dominion is the most played game mode. If they don't make the matchmaking more low level/low gear score friendly this game won't last long. That's something that should have been resolved before launch, but now it need to be fixed ASAP. I can only imagine what the experience is like for brand new players and it's only been 2 weeks. If I were a new player I would have little motivation to stick around this game. 1vs1 matches take forever to Q. You get next to nothing for 1vs1 vs AI. Who wants to grind 4vs4 vs AI that also takes forever to find a match. I don't care how good a game is you can't sustain a game with no new player base. It's impossible, even the most hardcore fan of this game will stop playing eventually and there will be next to no one to take his or her place simply due to the nature of this games matchmaking system?

Your argument is flawed.Skill is more important then gear score - every time. You can't really expect to play the game up to prestige 2 - change characters to a level one and be matched with someone just starting. You would have already mastered the basics - attacks, blocking, parrying, understanding the environment, how to actually play dominion etc.

Now if you want fairness - they should adjust matchmaking to disregard rank and gear and focus on kill/death ratio per mode. That would always pit you against a worthy opponent.

JESTER Z99
02-20-2017, 05:14 PM
fight or run ,

WingedHussar_PL
02-20-2017, 05:18 PM
Matchmaking is a hidden random game within main game - simple

Zemus-
02-20-2017, 05:23 PM
But it is balanced, to an extent at least.

Unless the only reason you were good on your original 3/4/5 reputation character was only because of good gear. And so now that you changed characters and are playing with inferior items, you suck again, especially against ones with good gear.

Like I said, I can easily beat most better geared people in a 1v1 scenario, easily.

Not to mention you can practice your play first in 1v1/2v2.



Let me explain this even clearer, because I feel like you still won't understand.

Playing as long as you have to play to get a few prestige levels, you are expected to learn the basic mechanics of the game, like parrying guaranteeing a guardbreak, or GBing after your enemy GBs and misses, and so on.

These mechanics work on all the characters. So when you change your char to one with a different gear level, you should still be able to play on almost the same level (apart from some specific situations like being better equipped vs multiple people (revenge builds) or not being able to one shot people with only 1 bar of HP remaining with certain attacks (attack builds) and so on).


Not to mention that, I assume that matchmaking doesn't take gear into account very much when looking for a game, it's more likely a hidden MMR rating (as most other games do also).


Again, stop blaming everyone else for your incompetence and learn how to play better.

And again you are not listening either. No matter how highly skilled you are on a new character against a high lvl high geared character doesn't matter. Both people SHOULD be good at defense play you are right we have no argument there. The difference is the low gear person has to land 6-10hits to get a kill. The geared person has to land 1-2. This is NOT balance and removes skill from the encounter and becomes entirely based on gear which is why we are angry about the broken matchmaking.

This isn't an issue when its High Lvl vs High Lvl, The game continues to be fun and challenging there and balanced with various gear combo's. but no amount of skill can save a low lvl vs a high lvl in 4v4 because of gear and having a meaningful 1v1 there is not part of the games mechanics

Moradiuss
02-20-2017, 05:42 PM
I have 1 prestige and I have mind blowing GS 18. Few facts:
- I've 1v1 playesr with 100+ GS and I crashed them
- I've 1v1 players with 1-10 GS and they crushed me.

Conclusion:
Skill >>> Gear

Yes it's easier for players with max attack gear but it's not game breaking. I feel that all 1v1 games I've lost were always about skill difference.
FOR HONOR!

Miadous
02-20-2017, 06:28 PM
I have screenshots of my team where no one is prestige against a team with a 6 prestige orochi (what a surprise), and no lower than a 3 prestige. Their shugoki was at 108 gear and at one point during the match he one shot me from full health with this heavy attack lol. Gear makes a big difference later on in this game. I haven't got to prestige 1 with anyone yet because I keep changing heroes, I like diversity. Seems like it's rare to NOT see at least one person wearing purple gear in a match these days. They play a lot on one hero, but I've been on the winning team several times against them because skill can still win you games in For Honor. Yes, it's not fair, but unranked 4v4 modes are just chaos, I'm not sure how it could be fair.

Kav0rk4
02-20-2017, 06:35 PM
The difference is the low gear person has to land 6-10hits to get a kill. The geared person has to land 1-2.


This is such a blatant lie, but you gave me a good insight on how you process data.

On one hand you think of a 1v1 when you're hitting someone with light attacks, and on the other you think of you carelessly attacking someone 1v2, them getting revenge and using a heavy top down attack to 1-2 shot you.

If I'm wrong, please, give me an example of someone 1-2 shoting you.

Ragnar---
02-20-2017, 06:42 PM
I'd also like to mention that gear doesn't mean **** to be honest.

I've beated max level gear people in 1v1 so many times..

Seriously, stop interfering in perfectly balanced 1v1s (unless you know for sure you will get a hit off), learn how to counter people in revenge mode and MAYBE you'll do better.

People are so fast to start blaming everyone else (Ubisoft, gear, lag, a ****ing mosquito, a dog barking,...) instead of realizing they're just not playing their best, and can improve.

GIT

GUD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx2-i7mJyR4

Gear mean nothing he says. :rolleyes:

Kav0rk4
02-20-2017, 07:03 PM
I've literally responded to the exact situation you just linked, but since it seems like your reading comprehension is sub par at best, I'll show you what I mean.


I'd also like to mention that gear doesn't mean **** to be honest.

I've beated max level gear people in 1v1 so many times..

Seriously, stop interfering in perfectly balanced 1v1s (unless you know for sure you will get a hit off), learn how to counter people in revenge mode and MAYBE you'll do better.

People are so fast to start blaming everyone else (Ubisoft, gear, lag, a ****ing mosquito, a dog barking,...) instead of realizing they're just not playing their best, and can improve.

GIT

GUD

Comatosed_
02-20-2017, 07:12 PM
I keep hearing this argument and it's so unbelievably flawed.

I seriously cannot comprehend how people don't understand this simple thing.



How the hell is the matchmaking system supposed to know which character you're going to pick before you join a game???

Answer: Pick hero before matchmaking started...... matchmaking then groups you up with people for a game that has similar gear score. fixed!



I've literally responded to the exact situation you just linked, but since it seems like your reading comprehension is sub par at best, I'll show you what I mean.

Also if you put 2 people together of similar skill, one character has gear score 10, the other has 100. Who wins ?

Hackfraysn
02-20-2017, 07:42 PM
I've beated max level gear people in 1v1 so many times.

That's good for you, but I think most beginners will not share your experience, get stomped repeatedly, grow sick and tired of unfair matchmaking and the resulting frustration and quit the game altogether.

After all you wouldn't let a kid who still needs training wheels to ride his bike take part in a motorcycle race for adults now, would you?

Kav0rk4
02-20-2017, 07:52 PM
Also if you put 2 people together of similar skill, one character has gear score 10, the other has 100. Who wins ?

Depends on the type of build the 100 gear score player has. Also depends on skill difference (similar isn't very precise).

For example, guy with gear score 10 could be specced towards throw distance, giving him a significant advantage over the guy with score 100 fully specced in revenge mode. Not to mention character picks and so on.

Learn to be a better player (git gud).

Kav0rk4
02-20-2017, 07:57 PM
That's good for you, but I think most beginners will not share your experience, get stomped repeatedly, grow sick and tired of unfair matchmaking and the resulting frustration and quit the game altogether.

After all you wouldn't let a kid who still needs training wheels to ride his bike take part in a motorcycle race for adults now, would you?

I've already answered that also, I doubt completely new players are getting matched against fully geared ones with more playtime (you can't discern that is what's happening from screenshots alone, since players might have characters in prestige levels but are playing new ones. This is usually what happens, and then people tend to rage over it. Example: When I'm playing my Orochi alt level 10 with the gear lvl of around 10, people tend to lose their **** and point out how the matchmaking is broken and so on.. Little do they know I have an almost 4 rep Warden as my main..)

If the matchmaking really does put better skilled players (more playtime, higher winrate) against completely new players, then that is of course something Ubisoft should look in to, but until we get empirical proof of that, all you can do is either assume that's the case or believe whiners when they make such ridiculous claims.

Comatosed_
02-20-2017, 08:05 PM
Depends on the type of build the 100 gear score player has. Also depends on skill difference (similar isn't very precise).

For example, guy with gear score 10 could be specced towards throw distance, giving him a significant advantage over the guy with score 100 fully specced in revenge mode. Not to mention character picks and so on.

Learn to be a better player (git gud).

I don't think the gear score guy with 10 that was speced in throwing would be much to worry about imo, you're argument is flawed, my point is being towards characters of similar/same stature but with different gear score, not one off mismatch as you propose, but you seem to be all about that mismatching :P
Also why does a counter argument have to be from someone whose a bad player ? lol

Kav0rk4
02-20-2017, 08:08 PM
You do have a point, of course, with the exact same skill level the better geared player will have a higher win chance, however what we're discussing in this thread is whether or not people having different character levels/gear levels is "broken"

And what I'm saying is, not necessarily. There are a lot more factors at play here.

Two people being of the exact same skill level but VASTLY different gear levels is much more unlikely than there being players whos skill level is different.

And either way, had I met a person with a great gear advantage and of similar skill playing against me, I'd either try to win through different means, go and gear up my character, or try to increase my skill, instead of whining about it on the forums like a baby.

HyperchillTV
02-20-2017, 08:15 PM
http://imgur.com/iO5M0Op
http://imgur.com/BSTD13Y

So I just said forget it I'll just stick with Shugoki.

http://imgur.com/tttvWGP

Comatosed_
02-20-2017, 08:30 PM
Yes winning against guys that have much higher GS values than you is highly rewarding but we have the experience to pull that off.
The main argument is whether the matchmaking is fair or not or maybe too fast going through the levels in matchmaking. My argument is that the matchmaking is not fair at all in my eyes, it does put experienced players with high gear score against players with no experience or even gear, both during the beta's and release, I have witnessed this far too many times, being a dominion minion and all that ;) it's the main mode I play, some poor guys can't even win against bots and then going up against highly skilled max GS toons all on one side. My voice is for the new guys but I would rate myself as average player.
Granted it's there fault for jumping into the deep end with hardly any experience but at least have a level'ish playing field. The only answer i can think off is slowing down the skill selections in matchmaking or even give us more options so we can adjust the matchmaking upon our own parameters.

Hackfraysn
02-20-2017, 08:30 PM
I've already answered that also, I doubt completely new players are getting matched against fully geared ones with more playtime (you can't discern that is what's happening from screenshots alone, since players might have characters in prestige levels but are playing new ones. This is usually what happens, and then people tend to rage over it. Example: When I'm playing my Orochi alt level 10 with the gear lvl of around 10, people tend to lose their **** and point out how the matchmaking is broken and so on.. Little do they know I have an almost 4 rep Warden as my main..)

If the matchmaking really does put better skilled players (more playtime, higher winrate) against completely new players, then that is of course something Ubisoft should look in to, but until we get empirical proof of that, all you can do is either assume that's the case or believe whiners when they make such ridiculous claims.

Didn't take a screenshot (wanted to capture one, but it turned out black for whatever reason and I didn't record the game either), but I queued with 2 of my friends who just did the tutorial (just like me) and we got matched against several prestige 2 characters. As a beginner lvl1 only team. One of them quit after 3 matches and the other one lost all motivation to play the game after 2 days of such amazingly nice and balanced matchups. I was wondering what was going on. I expected a "fresh" start but apparently they kept my matchmaking status from closed and open beta. Can't confirm that though because all my other friends who didn't take part in the betas had the same issue in their very first games even when they queued solo.

Sure, you can't prove it just by a screenshot alone, but I for one am willing to trust people on that because it's exactly what happened to me and my friends.

So sorry, but what you believe, or not, is not relevant. You can clearly see how many people are affected by this and rage doesn't seem to be the norm. They seem to be genuinely new players who just got mismatched horribly - like my friends. This forum and reddit is literally flooded with complaints and players who are genuinely shocked about the undisputedly worst and most unfair matchmaking I've ever seen in a game. It's not just the whining of a vocal minority who blames their loss on anything but themselves. Google it, if you don't believe me.

I for one think people are willing to put up with connectivity issues and mediocre balancing, but definitely not with unfair matchmaking that sucks the joy out of the game and only breeds frustration and promotes toxicity. If Ubisoft doesn't take this seriously and starts acting NOW, this game will have a near death experience pretty soon which it might not recover from.

Word of mouth is that the game has serious issues and the horrbly unfair matchmaking even made it into contemporary pop culture. There are more complaints about the matchmaking on 9GAG than deus vult memes and that's gotta tell you something.

I sincerely hope your experience is the norm, not mine, but judging from all the threads and complaints I highly doubt it.