PDA

View Full Version : Im still wondering why orochi gets a free heavy after a GB.



PaUZZze
02-19-2017, 12:10 AM
I'm just looking for an explanation. I can block any other warriors heavy after they break my guard, but never orochi. I've lost many battles against orochi because of it, otherwise clearly would've had the win. It bothers me when people spam it :(. I'm hoping to test it tonight with my brother to see if any other warrior can do it but I don't remember having an issue blocking after guard broken against any other warrior. Can anyone chime in?

YappysDaBeast
02-19-2017, 12:13 AM
Pretty sure Nobushi can also.

PackingMoney
02-19-2017, 12:14 AM
I'm just looking for an explanation. I can block any other warriors heavy after they break my guard, but never orochi. I've lost many battles against orochi because of it, otherwise clearly would've had the win. It bothers me when people spam it :(. I'm hoping to test it tonight with my brother to see if any other warrior can do it but I don't remember having an issue blocking after guard broken against any other warrior. Can anyone chime in?

Everyone can apparently.

PssrDavis
02-19-2017, 12:19 AM
Everyone can apparently.

but no one should be able to get free anything imo. Blasphemous.

YappysDaBeast
02-19-2017, 12:20 AM
And Valk, just tested.

BadgerBadger25
02-19-2017, 12:25 AM
This guy always cries about Orochi, makes useless threads like this.

Fuzzybutts
02-19-2017, 12:33 AM
The free heavy isn't the issue, its the fact that its a free heavy that does more damage than unblockable attacks that need special timing/coordination to pull off on an opponent. Look at abilities like raiders L+R combo, it uses more than 4x the stamina as the Orochi GB+Heavy combo but does about 3/4 the damage. Other examples are the chained unblockables on lawbringer wherein they requite parries and excellent timing and set up and can be backstepped out of but do only about 2/3rds and cost almost the entire stamina bar on lawbringer.

Theres plenty of other combos that do less damage and have far more input, setup, and resources required but don't do comparable damage to the Orochi guard break + overhead.

getatme94
02-19-2017, 12:38 AM
everyone gets a free side heavy, which in my opinion is fine, they don't do as much damage as a top heavy to my understanding, so they are used to secure executions that is fair play in my eyes. because it would be a block fest otherwise and heavies would be useless in my eyes. my problem is, orochi gets a free TOP heavy, someone can correct me if i am wrong but top heavy does full heavy damage right?

The_B0G_
02-19-2017, 12:45 AM
There will be an Orochi nerf, count on that. Even if no one said anything about it on the forums, the devs can see its the most picked hero, and how well people who do with it that aren't very good with any other classes. I'm guessing it'll be a stamina nerf, or maybe a very slight speed nerf.

Fuzzybutts
02-19-2017, 12:51 AM
There will be an Orochi nerf, count on that. Even if no one said anything about it on the forums, the devs can see its the most picked hero, and how well people who do with it that aren't very good with any other classes. I'm guessing it'll be a stamina nerf, or maybe a very slight speed nerf.

What needs to happen is an update to when block frames come into account, this will balance the majority of assassin classes. Mostly due to attack animations being too fast for p2p to keep up with, then his attack speed could remain the same. All Orochi needs changes is the stamina and the gb+overhead heavy damage then they would be rather balanced.

Hogmin
02-19-2017, 01:14 AM
Everyone saying "everyone gets a free side heavy" forget about poor Raider ;_; he can't heavy after GB

Zemus-
02-19-2017, 03:06 AM
I don't know about some other classes but the Lawbringer 100% gets a free Side Heavy after a GB

Print.
02-19-2017, 03:45 AM
There will be an Orochi nerf, count on that. Even if no one said anything about it on the forums, the devs can see its the most picked hero, and how well people who do with it that aren't very good with any other classes. I'm guessing it'll be a stamina nerf, or maybe a very slight speed nerf.

Orochi is easy to pick up and play, sure, but he's nowhere near oppressive enough in low and regular skill matches to be nerfed just for that. In (what is currently understood to be) high level play he is merely above average, so no need to nerf him for that, either.

TruBmp
02-19-2017, 04:03 AM
there is not a single reason for the orochi to get a free top heavy after gb. evry other class has to do big setups to do nearly as much dmg as the orochi with a simple gb. the top double tap already is almost instant and deals huge dmg, the gb into top heavy is plain imbalanced.

side heavy like evryone else fine. top heavy is just bs.

there should be a tradeoff in dmg and speed.

shinobikaze
02-19-2017, 04:11 AM
I main orochi and i'm fine with them nerfing the free OH but they then need to make sure no other class can do a free OH like nobo or valk

KSEActual
02-19-2017, 04:29 AM
I main an Orochi and they have no unblockable move, like the other assassins. If the lowest hp heros in the game who already have to dodge and block just to survive (because they cant just take hits like the other classes) get a chain that can be unblockable, there will be even more complaining. All other classes get an unblockable of some sort, not the assassins. If you can't counter the guard break and take a heavy hit and instead want to give us a chain unblockable for more damage (it has to be more because its a chain) then fine by me.

Also, there arent many 'Good' Orochi out there. If you can't block them then you probably do worse against the unlimited chain of the zerkers. Plus, if more people are Orochi then the skill base of the hero is lower, you have less to worry about - they have have the same moves - its how they are used that make a hero/operator good.

Also, I am blocked quite often, if you make the weakest characters in the game as fast as a vanguard, why have the class type? Less health, similar damage, just as fast as stronger characters. All for what? Faster sprint? No, make the assassins slower and the class will die off which will be fine for all of the people complaining about them. Not to mention, Orochi have to time their blocks just like a dodge. We don't just get to throw it one direction and be protected like everyother class.

KSEActual
02-19-2017, 04:30 AM
I main orochi and i'm fine with them nerfing the free OH but they then need to make sure no other class can do a free OH like nobo or valk

That's fair.

KSEActual
02-19-2017, 04:34 AM
there is not a single reason for the orochi to get a free top heavy after gb. evry other class has to do big setups to do nearly as much dmg as the orochi with a simple gb. the top double tap already is almost instant and deals huge dmg, the gb into top heavy is plain imbalanced.

side heavy like evryone else fine. top heavy is just bs.

there should be a tradeoff in dmg and speed.

Big setups? Really? Ever played with or against a Kensi? Pretty sure they can start their chain before you get there and have it be an unblockable Overhead. Ill take a chain like that with Orochi if you want to make it so we don't get gb - oh. Oh by the way, Valk who is getting a buff and nobushi get the same gb - oh. And they have reach, a shield or bleeds. Don't see any complaining there.

You guys are trying to make all hero's the same or...?

optophobe
02-19-2017, 05:26 AM
Only class that I can think of that doesn't get a free heavy is the PK.

Also, some people said everyone gets a free side heavy. Not true for Warlord, but their top heavy is free.

crazybread101
02-19-2017, 06:01 AM
I'm confused as to why someone would complain about this because the only advantage is it makes it easier to execute people otherwise though the double light does very similar damage

A lot of people hate guard breaks but that's a bad reason to nerf something rather pointless. orochi has fast heavies because they do considerably less damage than others so it's a trade off but as I stated the double light would be defaulted to even more than most people already do

Altair_Snake
02-19-2017, 07:36 AM
I main an Orochi and they have no unblockable move, like the other assassins. If the lowest hp heros in the game who already have to dodge and block just to survive (because they cant just take hits like the other classes) get a chain that can be unblockable, there will be even more complaining. All other classes get an unblockable of some sort, not the assassins. If you can't counter the guard break and take a heavy hit and instead want to give us a chain unblockable for more damage (it has to be more because its a chain) then fine by me.

Also, there arent many 'Good' Orochi out there. If you can't block them then you probably do worse against the unlimited chain of the zerkers. Plus, if more people are Orochi then the skill base of the hero is lower, you have less to worry about - they have have the same moves - its how they are used that make a hero/operator good.

Also, I am blocked quite often, if you make the weakest characters in the game as fast as a vanguard, why have the class type? Less health, similar damage, just as fast as stronger characters. All for what? Faster sprint? No, make the assassins slower and the class will die off which will be fine for all of the people complaining about them. Not to mention, Orochi have to time their blocks just like a dodge. We don't just get to throw it one direction and be protected like everyother class.
Aren't you forgetting about the deflect attacks?

neogeo___
02-19-2017, 08:13 AM
There will be an Orochi nerf, count on that. Even if no one said anything about it on the forums, the devs can see its the most picked hero, and how well people who do with it that aren't very good with any other classes. I'm guessing it'll be a stamina nerf, or maybe a very slight speed nerf.

I'd want this to be true for all assassins and basic class mechanics that need obvious tweaks, still considering it's the most popular class and they want to meet their season pass quotas, I honestly don't think it will happen anytime soon

Such discussion gets downvoted to hell because most players aren't willing to discuss inherent mechanic issue objectively nor lose a possible edge they feel they may have by playing such classes.

For duel/brawl it's completely ridiculous and doesn't translate into a decent risk/reward ratio in anyway shape or form. You have other mechanic exploits when matching up against low stance change speed heroes that assassins can easily exploit, in the case of the orochi, if hitting the timing asap, he can free top light attack to double top light attack after getting his storm rush blocked.

check https://redd.it/5utcwp for more clues on the game breaking issue

sonic44k
02-19-2017, 08:28 AM
I don't know about some other classes but the Lawbringer 100% gets a free Side Heavy after a GB

sry but we dont sucks but its true only get light attacks because we are to slow even with light attacks sometimes so ya .

Te_Wheke
02-19-2017, 08:31 AM
Aren't you forgetting about the deflect attacks?


They're easy to forget since they aren't very good.

PaUZZze
02-20-2017, 12:20 AM
This guy always cries about Orochi, makes useless threads like this.

I'm not crying, just tryin to figure out this free attack after a GB mechanic, very odd. However someone really should. I tried Orochi last night for the first time since the one time I tried him during alpha and wow....just wow...i completely wrecked everything. Here im doing average with Valk when i could be dominating with Orochi? Lol that guy is a noobs paradise. I also watched as a friend of mine, who's never played the game before, button mash his way to awesomeness with Orochi, and then I showed him how to guard break and that's when ****e really hit the fan haha he just spammed the crap outta it, good times, but bad times for his oppenents.

PaUZZze
02-20-2017, 12:22 AM
For anyone who cares so far I've found out that the Peacekeeper and Raider are supposedly the only warriors that don't get a free attack after a GB.

PaUZZze
02-20-2017, 12:26 AM
I main an Orochi and they have no unblockable move, like the other assassins. If the lowest hp heros in the game who already have to dodge and block just to survive (because they cant just take hits like the other classes) get a chain that can be unblockable, there will be even more complaining. All other classes get an unblockable of some sort, not the assassins. If you can't counter the guard break and take a heavy hit and instead want to give us a chain unblockable for more damage (it has to be more because its a chain) then fine by me.

Also, there arent many 'Good' Orochi out there. If you can't block them then you probably do worse against the unlimited chain of the zerkers. Plus, if more people are Orochi then the skill base of the hero is lower, you have less to worry about - they have have the same moves - its how they are used that make a hero/operator good.

Also, I am blocked quite often, if you make the weakest characters in the game as fast as a vanguard, why have the class type? Less health, similar damage, just as fast as stronger characters. All for what? Faster sprint? No, make the assassins slower and the class will die off which will be fine for all of the people complaining about them. Not to mention, Orochi have to time their blocks just like a dodge. We don't just get to throw it one direction and be protected like everyother class.

Incorrect. When he performs a guard break you can't block the next attack, like everyone else apparently except for PK and Raider...supposedly.

PaUZZze
02-20-2017, 12:29 AM
I'm confused as to why someone would complain about this because the only advantage is it makes it easier to execute people otherwise though the double light does very similar damage

A lot of people hate guard breaks but that's a bad reason to nerf something rather pointless. orochi has fast heavies because they do considerably less damage than others so it's a trade off but as I stated the double light would be defaulted to even more than most people already do

Incorrect. orochi's heavy foes around the same amount of damage as other warriors. I wouldn't say its a trade off by any means. And when a level one Orohci can spam GB into heavy's that your in able to block well, I'd consider that an issue that needs to be looked atm

BadgerBadger25
02-20-2017, 04:24 AM
I'm not crying, just tryin to figure out this free attack after a GB mechanic, very odd. However someone really should. I tried Orochi last night for the first time since the one time I tried him during alpha and wow....just wow...i completely wrecked everything. Here im doing average with Valk when i could be dominating with Orochi? Lol that guy is a noobs paradise. I also watched as a friend of mine, who's never played the game before, button mash his way to awesomeness with Orochi, and then I showed him how to guard break and that's when ****e really hit the fan haha he just spammed the crap outta it, good times, but bad times for his oppenents.

Yeah guard-break spam works wonders, against bad players

PaUZZze
02-20-2017, 06:59 AM
Yeah guard-break spam works wonders, against bad players

Lol

Bolderox
02-20-2017, 07:04 AM
Everyone can apparently.

Nope, peacekeeper can have any of her attacks blocked after guardbreak, she has no option atm but to use the bugged bleed...

Gubbyplz1
02-20-2017, 07:05 AM
There will be an Orochi nerf, count on that. Even if no one said anything about it on the forums, the devs can see its the most picked hero, and how well people who do with it that aren't very good with any other classes. I'm guessing it'll be a stamina nerf, or maybe a very slight speed nerf.

I have come across renown 5 Orochi's and beat them 3/0 with lawbringer I don't think they need a nerf. (i play on ps4) he ma get that free heavy but once you get decent at GB block youll be fine. his attack are all very predictable and light attacks seem slower than most characters which is pritty much his trade off.

A1kanaro
02-20-2017, 07:23 AM
I main an Orochi and they have no unblockable move, like the other assassins. If the lowest hp heros in the game who already have to dodge and block just to survive (because they cant just take hits like the other classes) get a chain that can be unblockable, there will be even more complaining. All other classes get an unblockable of some sort, not the assassins. If you can't counter the guard break and take a heavy hit and instead want to give us a chain unblockable for more damage (it has to be more because its a chain) then fine by me.

Also, there arent many 'Good' Orochi out there. If you can't block them then you probably do worse against the unlimited chain of the zerkers. Plus, if more people are Orochi then the skill base of the hero is lower, you have less to worry about - they have have the same moves - its how they are used that make a hero/operator good.

Also, I am blocked quite often, if you make the weakest characters in the game as fast as a vanguard, why have the class type? Less health, similar damage, just as fast as stronger characters. All for what? Faster sprint? No, make the assassins slower and the class will die off which will be fine for all of the people complaining about them. Not to mention, Orochi have to time their blocks just like a dodge. We don't just get to throw it one direction and be protected like everyother class.

Dont they? They have. U can do 2 unblockable hits after properly dodging incoming attack u can do either light or heavy unblockable. Check the movelist. On topic, improve your skills. Orochi isnt as bad as you try to picture him.

KSEActual
02-20-2017, 11:18 AM
Dont they? They have. U can do 2 unblockable hits after properly dodging incoming attack u can do either light or heavy unblockable. Check the movelist. On topic, improve your skills. Orochi isnt as bad as you try to picture him.

Speaking purely by fact you are correct. After an Orochi dodges in the last second TOWARDS AN ATTACK he could get an unblockable. The heavy is slower than Valkyries leg sweep and the light attack works sure, if you want to risk hp waiting to the last second every swing.

Orochi isn't bad, your right. He's fine. I myself have trouble against other well skilled players that use Orochi but he is by no means overpowered. I slaughter noob Orochi that just spam GB and try to storm step but any player picking him up and killing it? No, not unless they are playing against equally bad people that don't know their toons.