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View Full Version : Guard Break Tech/Interrupt and Dodge (FULL VIDEO)



RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 10:27 PM
https://youtu.be/HaYF0Lif0wM

I'm going to leave this here and in the Suggestions Forum, because I want feedback.

I'm open to all suggestions, criticisms, opinions, and whatever else you have.

I just want to have a discussion about the system before they implement the changes.

Ready... GO!

*EDIT*
https://youtu.be/6fHLQcsBysM
Added the video I did last night to show you can TECH Guard Breaks. When we TECH we both bounce back equally. My score does NOT improve from 0/3. It ONLY improves when I successfully INTERRUPT their Guard Break. You can see at 2/3 I TECH it again, and we both bounce back, and then I INTERRUPT to finish.

Different Guard Breaks have different animations and properties and speeds, etc. They are not all the same. So if you Guard Break does not hit BODY, or theirs beats you, because they were faster, or had an animation/property that nullified yours, then you will lose.
The answer to the problem is to light attack, back out, or just WAIT for their Guard Break and INTERRUPT it. That's why that mechanic is there. People aren't complaining that Guard Break doesn't work - people are complaining that when they Guard Break, they don't get a FREE interrupt. You have to know your hero and time it properly, JUST LIKE YOU WOULD ANY OTHER ATTACK. That's the way it SHOULD be.

Lufury
02-18-2017, 10:34 PM
I dont see any problems here. It is a ROLL THE DICE if you do it the same time. I dont know why people dont understand that its not that hard and they are about to change that. His guard break (where he got knocked back a bit) was due to your recovery you were allready in a non fighting recovery position so his guard break couldnt touch you in that moment.

It is so simple ill dodge you 100/100 guard breaks if you want me to. But if you perform it on the same time its a roll the dice. Spamming wont help there

And about the sidestep into his swing idk about that. Its on every Hero for now. So you do not have a disadvantage there. The Guardbreak however will follow a sidestep if the enemy is not performing a sidestep hit. GL

RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 10:47 PM
I dont see any problems here. It is a ROLL THE DICE if you do it the same time. I dont know why people dont understand that its not that hard and they are about to change that. His guard break (where he got knocked back a bit) was due to your recovery you were allready in a non fighting recovery position so his guard break couldnt touch you in that moment.

It is so simple ill dodge you 100/100 guard breaks if you want me to. But if you perform it on the same time its a roll the dice.

https://youtu.be/6fHLQcsBysM <--- Look at that video, then. It's a different one.

I've already proven that two Guard Breaks initiated at the same time Tech each other back to neutral position. This post was a followup video from something I posted last night.

From my experience if you try to Guard Break someone when they can't you just go through with the animation - but I could be very wrong here don't quote me on THIS one. I'm not used to trying to Guard Break people in random positions. Maybe I'll try that next and see if anything funky comes up.

Lufury
02-18-2017, 10:52 PM
pretty sure the tutorial teaches it wrong / does not have the change ;) ubisoft said by them self (Currently you canít counter a guardbreak during a guardbreak attempt. This will be returned to the previous behavior seen in the Beta. )

RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 10:58 PM
pretty sure the tutorial teaches it wrong / does not have the change ;) ubisoft said by them self (Currently you canít counter a guardbreak during a guardbreak attempt. This will be returned to the previous behavior seen in the Beta. )

They didn't say that it was right or wrong. They said "Currently you can't do something when you're doing something else because you were trying to do something when the other person wasn't doing the thing you thought they would do so you got countered and didn't like it so I guess we'll change it back"

That's what they said...

Here's how it works. Everybody thinks that when they hit Guard Break, it's supposed to be an automatically Guard Break Interrupt, based upon their perception of how it should work. But Guard Break Interrupt Works like Parry
Guard Break = Heavy
Guard Break Interrupt = Parry
If you try to "Parry" when an attack isn't coming, you will Heavy.
If you try to "Guard Break Interrupt" when no Guard Break is being applied to you, then you will Guard Break.
If you're in the process of Guard Breaking and get Guard Broken, you cannot counter.
That should be intended - otherwise if you Guard Break and fail, you get a free pass out, when you should be getting punished for bad gameplay.

I think this misconception of Guard Break = Always counter because I pressed it, as opposed to Guard Break Interrupt = Cancelling their Guard Break with GOOD TIMING, AFTER they perform theirs, is making the discussion a little confusing.

I thought my video showed a pretty good example of the different Guard Break mechanics. The Dodge, The Interrupt, The Full Counter Tech, and The Counter Guard Break (Which is different from a Guard Break *Interrupt*, another thing I tried to make sure that I differentiated.

RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 11:08 PM
The other point I made in the video that I forgot to mention, is that Guard Break isn't only techable by Guard Break or Guard Break Interrupt. You can always attack, which I didn't show in the video, or dodge, which I did. If you time it right you get the Tech display. People need to learn to give the game time and learn how to play it (not flaming) before screaming nerf nerf nerf. Again, my video is just to show that there is counterplay and tactics and TIMING behind Guard Break, and the proposed revert to the beta stage will take a lot of that away.

Lufury
02-18-2017, 11:09 PM
The other point I made in the video that I forgot to mention, is that Guard Break isn't only techable by Guard Break or Guard Break Interrupt. You can always attack, which I didn't show in the video, or dodge, which I did. If you time it right you get the Tech display. People need to learn to give the game time and learn how to play it (not flaming) before screaming nerf nerf nerf. Again, my video is just to show that there is counterplay and tactics and TIMING behind Guard Break, and the proposed revert to the beta stage will take a lot of that away.

You still dont understand that it is a DICE ROLL when they both are trying to do it at the same time. Attacks are faster than Guardbreaking because its a GUARD break not an attack stop.

Anaccord
02-18-2017, 11:12 PM
I dont see any problems here. It is a ROLL THE DICE if you do it the same time. I dont know why people dont understand that its not that hard and they are about to change that. His guard break (where he got knocked back a bit) was due to your recovery you were allready in a non fighting recovery position so his guard break couldnt touch you in that moment.

It is so simple ill dodge you 100/100 guard breaks if you want me to. But if you perform it on the same time its a roll the dice. Spamming wont help there

And about the sidestep into his swing idk about that. Its on every Hero for now. So you do not have a disadvantage there. The Guardbreak however will follow a sidestep if the enemy is not performing a sidestep hit. GL

em man i dunno but for me some time guardbreak follows as magnet me when i dodge attack

RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 11:21 PM
You still dont understand that it is a DICE ROLL when they both are trying to do it at the same time. Attacks are faster than Guardbreaking because its a GUARD break not an attack stop.

How is it a dice roll if...
A) If you do it at same time you both tech and recover. This proves the system works.
B) If you guard break at the wrong time and get broken instead (we're not taking into consideration you can dodge, attack, roll out, or Interrupt either - which are plentiful and very viable options to this ONE MOVE everyone claims is broken) you can't get out of it. This proves the timing of guard break works.
C) If you're not in the middle of a guard break (because obviously you can't be broken while attacking), or performing a move in guard and get caught (because you can't guard break someone who isn't guarding) you can Interrupt it. This proves guard breaks are not absolute, and the system works.

Now. Instead of just saying I don't understand, really think about this. The proposed changes make it MORE of a dice roll.
A) If someone Guard Breaks into thin air, and you counter Guard Break, they can Guard Break Interrupt you, despite the fact you timed your attack properly. This gives people a free pass to Guard Break at will (again, we're under the impression the situation is Guard Break vs Guard Break, not an attack, dodge, or something else). That is a dice roll.
B) It makes spacing less important. Next to a ledge you can decide to Guard Break early, because if the person incoming DOES decide to Guard Break you for the ledge kill, you can still Interrupt them. It takes away the incentive to time your Guard Break properly by making it efficient to Guard Break first, thus completely nullifying your enemy's guard break. This is for sure a dice roll.

I understand the system completely, and I also understand your perspective of why you think it's broken. What I'm saying is not only that it's not, but that the revert you're so happy to get is going to make the system MORE of a dice roll, the exact thing you're complaining about.

Lufury
02-18-2017, 11:21 PM
em man i dunno but for me some time guardbreak follows as magnet me when i dodge attack

I just said that Guardbreak will follow a sidestep buf if you perform a Sidestep hit it wont.

GewaltSam
02-18-2017, 11:22 PM
em man i dunno but for me some time guardbreak follows as magnet me when i dodge attack

Working as intended.


I hope they don't change guardbreak or counter guardbreak. I like it very much how it is, and it has a pretty nice balance in comparison to what it does and what counters it. Like very much. That's my opinion.
BTW, learn to counter guardbreak. The timing is easy, but you mustn't fumble it.

RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 11:24 PM
em man i dunno but for me some time guardbreak follows as magnet me when i dodge attack

That's not exclusive to Guard Break, though. A lot of moves track on to you because of UbiVortex. It's how even on the move you're able to parry/defect/guard break etc.
The best way to describe UbiVortex is when you're chasing someone and hit your attack, and if you're not close enough you miss, but if you're close enough you get a burst of speed/distance and hit them. That's how they code the game to work and make it responsive.

As far as rolling out goes - depending upon the nature of the guard break animation, it might be better to try to Guard Break Interrupt and/or block the incoming attack, rather than roll. I've found one of the easiest ways to kill people when they try to run away is lock on, dash forward, and Light Attack. Every time they roll you just catch up and get a free hit. Guard Break works the same way. It's not exclusive.

Lufury
02-18-2017, 11:24 PM
How is it a dice roll if...
A) If you do it at same time you both tech and recover. This proves the system works.
B) If you guard break at the wrong time and get broken instead (we're not taking into consideration you can dodge, attack, roll out, or Interrupt either - which are plentiful and very viable options to this ONE MOVE everyone claims is broken) you can't get out of it. This proves the timing of guard break works.
C) If you're not in the middle of a guard break (because obviously you can't be broken while attacking), or performing a move in guard and get caught (because you can't guard break someone who isn't guarding) you can Interrupt it. This proves guard breaks are not absolute, and the system works.

Now. Instead of just saying I don't understand, really think about this. The proposed changes make it MORE of a dice roll.
A) If someone Guard Breaks into thin air, and you counter Guard Break, they can Guard Break Interrupt you, despite the fact you timed your attack properly. This gives people a free pass to Guard Break at will (again, we're under the impression the situation is Guard Break vs Guard Break, not an attack, dodge, or something else). That is a dice roll.
B) It makes spacing less important. Next to a ledge you can decide to Guard Break early, because if the person incoming DOES decide to Guard Break you for the ledge kill, you can still Interrupt them. It takes away the incentive to time your Guard Break properly by making it efficient to Guard Break first, thus completely nullifying your enemy's guard break. This is for sure a dice roll.

I understand the system completely, and I also understand your perspective of why you think it's broken. What I'm saying is not only that it's not, but that the revert you're so happy to get is going to make the system MORE of a dice roll, the exact thing you're complaining about.

No. Too much text for a simple thing. If you both Guard Break 1 of you will be guard broken and the other cannot do anything against that. NOTHING it is a 50/50 Chance. No one Should be Guardbroken right there as youve showed us that in the Tutorial. But that does not happen

RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 11:26 PM
I just said that Guardbreak will follow a sidestep buf if you perform a Sidestep hit it wont.

yup. mechanics. that's why the game is good. why people want the game to be LESS is beyond me.

RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 11:28 PM
No. Too much text for a simple thing. If you both Guard Break 1 of you will be guard broken and the other cannot do anything against that. NOTHING it is a 50/50 Chance. No one Should be Guardbroken right there as youve showed us that in the Tutorial. But that does not happen

BRO. I MADE A VIDEO IN BOTH A TUTORIAL, AND A LIVE FIGHT, PROVING THAT IF YOU GUARD BREAK AT THE SAME TIME, IT TECHS.

THUS

"IF YOU GUARD BREAK ONE OF YOU WILL BE GUARD BROKEN ND THE OTHER CANNOT DO ANYTHING AGAINST THAT" IS A *BLATANTLY* FALSE STATEMENT.

WHAT PART OF THAT DO *YOU* NOT UNDERSTAND?

And you're RIGHT. The game SHOULDN'T be a 50/50 chance. When you get better at ANYTHING you learn to try to ELIMINATE chance as much as possible and make smart moves. That's what separates the good from the bad players.

RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 11:30 PM
That fight is continuous. It's four clips but I only left out one round. I did every single counter there is to Guard Break, except attack, which is the easiest and most obvious of all that doesn't need any explanation.

You can't tell me it's 50/50 if I can explain the mechanics, perform the mechanics both on AI and Real Players, and give you the proof of it, all in ONE FIGHT.

That's called the mechanics WORKING, not being BROKEN.

Lufury
02-18-2017, 11:32 PM
BRO. I MADE A VIDEO IN BOTH A TUTORIAL, AND A LIVE FIGHT, PROVING THAT IF YOU GUARD BREAK AT THE SAME TIME, IT TECHS.

THUS

"IF YOU GUARD BREAK ONE OF YOU WILL BE GUARD BROKEN ND THE OTHER CANNOT DO ANYTHING AGAINST THAT" IS A *BLATANTLY* FALSE STATEMENT.

WHAT PART OF THAT DO *YOU* NOT UNDERSTAND?

And you're RIGHT. The game SHOULDN'T be a 50/50 chance. When you get better at ANYTHING you learn to try to ELIMINATE chance as much as possible and make smart moves. That's what separates the good from the bad players.

oh Boy. wanna duel you badly right now.

Here your own Video proofes it
Watch the enemy Shield icon so you know hes doing the same **** right there.

https://youtu.be/HaYF0Lif0wM?t=1m20s

RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 11:34 PM
He doesn't recoil because he hits me in an animation. He recoils because we did a Guard Break at the same time. Watch how I recoil as well. If it was because I was in an animation he can't Guard Break me in, I wouldn't have recoiled from his Guard Break. We both recoiled with the blue Tech indicator because we both Guard Broke at the same time and we Teched. If you keep watching I do the exact same animation again but this time I win because my animation is faster. We teched the first one because I was recovering from stagger. You have to pay attention to the game. It's the little things like this that not only make ALL the difference in a fight, but is the reason the game is so good. When you undermine that because you don't want to see into it you undermine the game. That's why you keep saying something CAN'T happen, that I've now made two videos PROVING that you CAN. It's THAT mentality that is dangerous for a game, not the current build.

RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 11:37 PM
oh Boy. wanna duel you badly right now.

Here your own Video proofes it
Watch the enemy Shield icon so you know hes doing the same **** right there.

https://youtu.be/HaYF0Lif0wM?t=1m20s

Okay... what are you arguing? He starts his FIRST, meaning he's IN MOTION. He's COMMITED TO A MOVE.
I start mine too.
Mine is FASTER.
I win.
Because he's committed to a move already, he cannot counter it.
What part don't you understand?
If he was CLOSE ENOUGH to ACTUALLY Guard Break me, then I would have had to Interrupt.
I wouldn't have BEEN ABLE to perform MY OWN Guard Break, because I would have been in his Guard Break animation.
This is how the game works.
What part are you missing?

Lufury
02-18-2017, 11:38 PM
In the first post I made in this thread I allready said he could not guardbreak you right there because you were in a Recovery Position. You guardbreaked at almost the same time right there you even saw his attempt due to the shield icon. Thats the moment where it should knock you both away from each other and not to attach on of you to the other one leaving that guy in a hopeless position. If he would just have waited 1 Second he would be Totally fine. So it is RNG if you grabb in the same moment thats all Im saying and thats what ubisoft is saying by You cannot counter a Guardbreak during a guardbreak attempt

RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 11:39 PM
Working as intended.


I hope they don't change guardbreak or counter guardbreak. I like it very much how it is, and it has a pretty nice balance in comparison to what it does and what counters it. Like very much. That's my opinion.
BTW, learn to counter guardbreak. The timing is easy, but you mustn't fumble it.

This, man, this.

RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 11:41 PM
In the first post I made in this thread I allready said he could not guardbreak you right there because you were in a Recovery Position. You guardbreaked at almost the same time right there you even saw his attempt due to the shield icon. Thats the moment where it should knock you both away from each other and not to attach on of you to the other one leaving that guy in a hopeless position. If he would just have waited 1 Second he would be Totally fine. So it is RNG if you grabb in the same moment thats all Im saying and thats what ubisoft is saying by You cannot counter a Guardbreak during a guardbreak attempt

No. He could not Guard Break me because I hit Guard Break at the same time and TECHED IT. OMG WHAT PART AREN'T YOU GETTING?! LMAO

AFTER I TECHED IT, if you would just UNDERSTAND THAT I DID, I BEAT his Guard Break. Just like you can BEAT someone's light attack with your own. That's how it WORKS.

You keep saying how the fight should go, but the fight goes the way you play it. I've shown the fight can go anyway you want IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE MECHANICS INSTEAD OF TRYING TO MAKE THE GAME WORK IN YOUR OWN WORLD, and actually APPLY WHAT YOU KNOW.

Since you want to act like I haven't shown you every last thing you're complaining about, you wont get better. That's the conclusion I've come to.

RYUJINdotEXE
02-18-2017, 11:44 PM
"We teched the first one because I was recovering from stagger" should be read as "That's why we teched the first one instead of me winning it"

You just want to read it in a way that supports your theory, without fully understanding what I'm saying, OR showing you.

Lufury
02-18-2017, 11:54 PM
There is no Sense to try to talk here anymore. Youre right for sure.

but maybe you are going to test something with a friend if you have one.

Take same heros look at the timer on the top right to get the right timing and grabb each other and youll have a 50/50 chance winning it.

Trustful_Whale
02-18-2017, 11:54 PM
I don't get the point of this thread or video. If two guard breaks connect at precisely the same time they will cancel out; this is nothing new. The problem is that doing this with perfect consistency is highly improbable for most humans and that the guard break animation speed for every character is different.
The real problem being that a character with a fast guard break animation (Orochi) can initiate their GB upon seeing a slower character's animation (Nobushi) AFTER they have initated it and still grab them first without any chance of escape. That's what the patch is going to fix, it will not degrade anything about the guard break system but improve it.
The part at 1:05 in your video where you explain this exact scenario is why it's broken and unfair right now.

Side step attacks beat guard break because it's an attack, so also nothing new.

Beyond all of that, teching a GB when it hits you works as intended as well as GBing a vulnerable opponent (during a dodge, after whiffing an an attack with high recovery, being blocked using an attack with high recovery, getting parried) and doesn't need to change. Except maybe the guaranteed GB after a parry, that's kind of boring honestly.

RYUJINdotEXE
02-19-2017, 12:02 AM
I don't get the point of this thread or video. If two guard breaks connect at precisely the same time they will cancel out; this is nothing new. The problem is that doing this with perfect consistency is highly improbable for most humans and that the guard break animation speed for every character is different.
The real problem being that a character with a fast guard break animation (Orochi) can initiate their GB upon seeing a slower character's animation (Nobushi) AFTER they have initated it and still grab them first without any chance of escape. That's what the patch is going to fix, it will not degrade anything about the guard break system but improve it.
The part at 1:05 in your video where you explain this exact scenario is why it's broken and unfair right now.

Side step attacks beat guard break because it's an attack, so also nothing new.

So you're saying that it makes MORE sense for Nobushi to be able to initiate a guard break, and then DEFEND a guard break for MISSING, just because the orochi did what his hero is SUPPOSED to do?

This is where I'm missing the logic.

So now Orochi can't use his speed to INITIATE a guard break, because the Nobushi may preemptively do one, because he knows no matter what happens, he can still defend, even though the move he did was bad.

And he knows it. And so do you.

We're not saying different things, we're arguing whether it's right or not.

Strictly within the realm of Guard Breaks, you believe a Guard Break should be able to be thrown out for free, and still be able to counter Guard Breaks.
I believe if you throw out a Guard Break that gets countered by a Guard Break, you should be beat.
I believe Guard Break Interrupt exists to nullify the need for your belief, while reinforcing mine.
Does that make sense?

RYUJINdotEXE
02-19-2017, 12:04 AM
There is no Sense to try to talk here anymore. Youre right for sure.

but maybe you are going to test something with a friend if you have one.

Take same heros look at the timer on the top right to get the right timing and grabb each other and youll have a 50/50 chance winning it.

no such thing. the timing of the input will determine the winner. if the timing of the input are the same it will reset. plain and simple. attacks don't work any different. guard breaks are not their own entity. they are an "attack" as well. attacks can be countered in various ways. stop trying to make it exclusive. the only exclusive thing about it is that it isn't typically a damaging "strike", so there's no *trade* on *close* or *exact* timing. Instead *close* timing gets beat, and *exact* timing gets *traded*. It's easy.

RYUJINdotEXE
02-19-2017, 12:16 AM
And then my other question would be, do you ONLY get hit with Guard Breaks when you're doing your own Guard Break. And if so what is the reason? Were you sitting there and didn't react on time? Where you sidestepping or rolling when you should have been attacking? Were you waiting for it and just mistimed it?

The point of me asking that is that regardless of how you look at it, attacks and guard breaks and both all about timing. Guard breaks should not be light chains. You don't get to throw one out, miss, and follow up on purpose. That's not constructive gameplay. You should time your guard breaks, not only because they can be so easily countered (like you said WE ALL KNOW THE VARIOUS WAYS TO BEAT IT), but because they CAN lead into good damage. You shouldn't..
A) Be able to fish for that damage through guard break without repercussion
B) Negate that damage by exploiting bad mechanics.

I don't get why we're asking for bad mechanics.

RYUJINdotEXE
02-19-2017, 12:19 AM
No. Too much text for a simple thing. If you both Guard Break 1 of you will be guard broken and the other cannot do anything against that. NOTHING it is a 50/50 Chance. No one Should be Guardbroken right there as youve showed us that in the Tutorial. But that does not happen

What the revert is going to do is turn EVERY Guard Break trade into a 50/50. No matter WHO wins it, the LOSER will ALWAYS be able to opt out of it. The winner has to accept the fact that he will get interrupted. It makes you want to play to lose, because that's how you win. THAT, MY FRIEND, IS A 50/50.

RYUJINdotEXE
02-19-2017, 12:24 AM
It's like what you guys are begging for completely undermines how clean and smooth and advanced the gameplay is, down to the point THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A TECH TRADE ON THROW!!! If this goes through, if you lose, you can still opt out, making the tech completely pointless from a design, skillcap, and gameplay perspective. And that doesn't make sense when they've gone through SOO much to give us a game that surpasses all others. Something that's a REAL fight system, not a spam and tech. As it is, you can't spam something that will get you hurt. When it goes through, you'll see the real spam.

It's really scary that this is something everybody would want. Maybe I'm nuts but I don't see why anybody would want it this way.

GewaltSam
02-19-2017, 10:51 PM
It's like what you guys are begging for completely undermines how clean and smooth and advanced the gameplay is, down to the point THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A TECH TRADE ON THROW!!! If this goes through, if you lose, you can still opt out, making the tech completely pointless from a design, skillcap, and gameplay perspective. And that doesn't make sense when they've gone through SOO much to give us a game that surpasses all others. Something that's a REAL fight system, not a spam and tech. As it is, you can't spam something that will get you hurt. When it goes through, you'll see the real spam.

It's really scary that this is something everybody would want. Maybe I'm nuts but I don't see why anybody would want it this way.

It's especially scary how there's no evolving in opinions, it's only "TAKE MY OPINION OR BE WRONG". If you read this thread, you get the feeling that most writing here are advanced players that know what they are talking about, although there's a conflict. So back to the lab, try, go discuss about experiences. Try to get the facts straight for once, not your own opinion through.
Can't we, as a community, get better together? I'm meeting so many nice people out there on the fields of batle, it's crazy there's at least as much salt and toxicity around :/

Trustful_Whale
02-20-2017, 05:53 AM
So you're saying that it makes MORE sense for Nobushi to be able to initiate a guard break, and then DEFEND a guard break for MISSING, just because the orochi did what his hero is SUPPOSED to do?

No, the Nobushi hasn't missed yet. She's being punished for throwing out a guard break raw simply because the character she's fighting against has a guard break animation that's so fast it can instantly punish hers on reaction. If the Nobushi player actually missed her guard break attempt then yes that should be punishable with a guaranteed return guard break, but that's not what the issue is here since that already works as intended.


Strictly within the realm of Guard Breaks, you believe a Guard Break should be able to be thrown out for free, and still be able to counter Guard Breaks.
Actually I believe that a GB should miss if the other player is in their own GB startup so that both players return to neutral because both players ****ed it up and it shouldn't be left to a coin toss that happens to favor the guy who picked Orochi.
I'm not saying GB's should be free at all, far from it. I'm saying they should be fair, which currently the way they interact they are not.

Ubisoft agrees and are reverting the change they made. It was fine the way it was, and now it will be again.