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JustInsertAName
02-18-2017, 08:16 PM
It's seems like everyone has it in their heads that the orochi is the most OP class in the game...Not even close. Has anyone played a high level berserker? Have you gotten caught in an infinite chain? Have you played a high level peacekeeper? Have you gotten bleed baited and killed? As someone who chose to play the orochi, I feel the assassin class needs to be rebalanced.

Fibrillous
02-18-2017, 08:23 PM
orochi is decent but definitely not the best hero. the same goes to peacekeeper. i havent dabbled around heavily with berserker yet, but she does seem to be very strong.

NeoVidia
02-18-2017, 08:24 PM
It's seems like everyone has it in their heads that the orochi is the most OP class in the game...Not even close. Has anyone played a high level berserker? Have you gotten caught in an infinite chain? Have you played a high level peacekeeper? Have you gotten bleed baited and killed? As someone who chose to play the orochi, I feel the assassin class needs to be rebalanced.

People are, and will always be, **** at games. Then they go to the forums and ***** about it. Usually, at best, 10% of the post are actually on point.

Kurasamii
02-18-2017, 08:27 PM
It's seems like everyone has it in their heads that the orochi is the most OP class in the game...Not even close. Has anyone played a high level berserker? Have you gotten caught in an infinite chain? Have you played a high level peacekeeper? Have you gotten bleed baited and killed? As someone who chose to play the orochi, I feel the assassin class needs to be rebalanced.

Orochi has a lot that the other characters dont, his high base dmg + mobility that matches that of a peackeeper is more than enough to keep him at the top of any leaderboard. PK has the weakest base stats and though requires more skill to play has so many flaws that its hard to consider her an assassin at all.. I understand your point tho - all assasins are lame when it comes to burst potential and none of them feel thematically correct when it comes to dmg.

this game is trying to do so much and none of it well, classes should have very clear weaknesses and strengths, the block mechanics pretty much negate any real need for skill, especially with so many block counters in the game like with warden XD

Kurasamii
02-18-2017, 08:31 PM
People are, and will always be, **** at games. Then they go to the forums and ***** about it. Usually, at best, 10% of the post are actually on point.

your right, but being **** here is hard to say.. I'm sure we can all agree that we have had points where we rage at something happening even though we know we countered it? or tired as **** of being thrown off into a fountain and dying XD
a lot of the mechanics of the game doesn't fit.. take away blocks from assassins and give them a better reaction radius for parries and deflects.

neogeo___
02-18-2017, 08:34 PM
All assassins need serious tweaks, reasonable stamina costs and a huge increase in side dodge timing to match the risk/reward it offers.

Berserker is in fact peudo broken when it comes to his light attack timing while being blocked. In certain match ups you just can't block him actively since his attack immediatly after being blocked will be faster than the time you take for recovering from the block, so as long as he switches stances it's a guaranteed hit, pretty much the definition of broken

Peacekeeper is almost the same only she has an incredible feint to attack timing and you can't almost, or even definitely keep up. If playing console she is probably the char that is most easiest to exploit via analog spin with some feints and guard breaks in between.

Although the game might be good enough for the average player and MMR, atm in higher MMR is is not nearly good enough and you either only counter pick to go up against the already obvious and short meta, or you give up all self respect and love for the game and start playing the exact same way.

Seriously disappointed tbh

Kaotic_CipherTV
02-18-2017, 08:39 PM
All assassins need serious tweaks, reasonable stamina costs and a huge increase in side dodge timing to match the risk/reward it offers.

Berserker is in fact peudo broken when it comes to his light attack timing while being blocked. In certain match ups you just can't block him actively since his attack immediatly after being blocked will be faster than the time you take for recovering from the block, so as long as he switches stances it's a guaranteed hit, pretty much the definition of broken

Peacekeeper is almost the same only she has an incredible feint to attack timing and you can't almost, or even definitely keep up. If playing console she is probably the char that is most easiest to exploit via analog spin with some feints and guard breaks in between.

Although the game might be good enough for the average player and MMR, atm in higher MMR is is not nearly good enough and you either only counter pick to go up against the already obvious and short meta, or you give up all self respect and love for the game and start playing the exact same way.

Seriously disappointed tbh

^This guy.

I am so tired of hearing everyone cry over the orochi. If you learn to play they are literally the easiest to kill in the game. And this is so frustrating considering this is the only character I had an interest in. The biggest problems are our simple movesets and speed compared to almost every other hero. Every other hero has a mobility move, unblockable charge, blind, and insane leap attacks. if you are reading this and you think the orochi is still OP, go fight a level 3 bot as one and see just how stupid you look.

dfrozen1
02-18-2017, 08:58 PM
all of the assassins are OP

super high mobility including dodges, high attack speed, good dps, never running out of stamina even when trying to.

the only reason people are not complaining more about PK is because her damage on GB stab is bugged, wait untill its fixed,

deflect is another bonus the assassin classes get which they never really needed to begin with,

assassins at the moment have no downside to being played when used by a skilled player, in sharp contrast to the inherit flaws in other characters design.

DrExtrem
02-18-2017, 09:00 PM
Try out the zerker in a bot match.

If he starts his spam, you are dead in under 2 seconds - as a lawbringer. Too fast to block. Same with the orochi and nobushi-bots.
When they start spamming lights, you can lay your controller down, because your guard does not come up again on time AND you would have to know, where the next strike hits. Like nailing a pudding to a wall.

FailOfHDDVD
02-18-2017, 09:03 PM
It's seems like everyone has it in their heads that the orochi is the most OP class in the game...Not even close. Has anyone played a high level berserker? Have you gotten caught in an infinite chain? Have you played a high level peacekeeper? Have you gotten bleed baited and killed? As someone who chose to play the orochi, I feel the assassin class needs to be rebalanced.

i've seen a high level berserker, the infinite chain is godlike.

Kaotic_CipherTV
02-18-2017, 09:13 PM
i've seen a high level berserker, the infinite chain is godlike.

^This

This is the one assassin that makes no sense to me. Attacks are often to fast to register the block, they have insane distance for being labeled "short range" and the amount of damage they do for how little stamina they spend is the most frustrating thing ive encountered.

But for some reason everyone wants to complain about the easiest to kill assassin being OP.. Now I am not denying that people play the class cheaply, but in higher ranked play skill trumps cheese. Especially when other classes have spammable bashes and unblockables.

JustInsertAName
02-18-2017, 09:21 PM
All assassins need serious tweaks, reasonable stamina costs and a huge increase in side dodge timing to match the risk/reward it offers.

Berserker is in fact peudo broken when it comes to his light attack timing while being blocked. In certain match ups you just can't block him actively since his attack immediatly after being blocked will be faster than the time you take for recovering from the block, so as long as he switches stances it's a guaranteed hit, pretty much the definition of broken

Peacekeeper is almost the same only she has an incredible feint to attack timing and you can't almost, or even definitely keep up. If playing console she is probably the char that is most easiest to exploit via analog spin with some feints and guard breaks in between.

Although the game might be good enough for the average player and MMR, atm in higher MMR is is not nearly good enough and you either only counter pick to go up against the already obvious and short meta, or you give up all self respect and love for the game and start playing the exact same way.

Seriously disappointed tbh

The assassin class I would like to say has the steepest learning curve for a reason. They are supposed to be the swing heroes, as in when played correctly you can alter the fate of a match. What is not okay, is a berserker running around light spamming and clearing entire matches single handedly. I've witnessed a revenge/fury/berserker sweep a whole team just using dodge strikes alternating sides until a chain starts and then mows everyone down in the vicinity. Peacekeepers are just annoying with their bleed attacks. They are just as fragile but in the right hands the bleed damage goes a long way. Then there's the orochi...Shallow moveset, unusable moves and an unblockable attack that requires so much to initiate that it's almost a hassle to actively try to use it and rather go for it when the situation arises. For a counter attacker class, we sure have a few options in terms of counter attacking versatility.

neogeo___
02-18-2017, 09:34 PM
^This guy.

I am so tired of hearing everyone cry over the orochi. If you learn to play they are literally the easiest to kill in the game. And this is so frustrating considering this is the only character I had an interest in. The biggest problems are our simple movesets and speed compared to almost every other hero. Every other hero has a mobility move, unblockable charge, blind, and insane leap attacks. if you are reading this and you think the orochi is still OP, go fight a level 3 bot as one and see just how stupid you look.

I went into mechanics and explained my major issues with every assassin. This you even write a reasonable reply with decent arguments? "This guys he says lmao"

Orochi is in fact the least broken of the 3, but still has an overwhelming advantage in many match ups. You know attack speed and stance change time combined with recovery after block/hit are important features in the game that can become unbalanced in certain match ups don't you? Maybe inexperienced players in the genre won't look for these details, or others will even say that as long as it doesn't affect most match ups it's fine, but it's clearly against the definition of overall balance.

As for orochi, his top light attack is in fact a bit to fast, guaranteed a connect after certain combos, which actively blocking shouldn't be the case unless you guard break.

If anything somebody pretending debating something while failing to produce a single argument is the one that looks stupid buddy. But you must be right.

Still need convencing why the side dodge lacks so much timing needed and has no stamina costs for assassins considering the reward it has.

Yes, fighting games are balanced according to the rule of risk/reward ratio


all of the assassins are OP

super high mobility including dodges, high attack speed, good dps, never running out of stamina even when trying to.

the only reason people are not complaining more about PK is because her damage on GB stab is bugged, wait untill its fixed,

deflect is another bonus the assassin classes get which they never really needed to begin with,

assassins at the moment have no downside to being played when used by a skilled player, in sharp contrast to the inherit flaws in other characters design.

A reasonable user. TY! that's exactly the problem. In high MMR you start to see the balancing issues.

neogeo___
02-18-2017, 09:37 PM
^This

This is the one assassin that makes no sense to me. Attacks are often to fast to register the block, they have insane distance for being labeled "short range" and the amount of damage they do for how little stamina they spend is the most frustrating thing ive encountered.

But for some reason everyone wants to complain about the easiest to kill assassin being OP.. Now I am not denying that people play the class cheaply, but in higher ranked play skill trumps cheese. Especially when other classes have spammable bashes and unblockables.

Assumes that every high skill players plays assassin, nothing wrong here, nothing whatsoever.

Why wouldn't you want to go assassin? To struggle, be afforded little mistake and have to time everything right? We must be the stupid ones for refusing going the easy way

Kaotic_CipherTV
02-18-2017, 09:38 PM
I went into mechanics and explained my major issues with every assassin. This you even write a reasonable reply with decent arguments? "This guys he says lmao"

Orochi is in fact the least broken of the 3, but still has an overwhelming advantage in many match ups. You know attack speed and stance change time combined with recovery after block/hit are important features in the game that can become unbalanced in certain match ups don't you? Maybe inexperienced players in the genre won't look for these details, or others will even say that as long as it doesn't affect most match ups it's fine, but it's clearly against the definition of overall balance.

As for orochi, his top light attack is in fact a bit to fast, guaranteed a connect after certain combos, which actively blocking shouldn't be the case unless you guard break.

If anything somebody pretending debating something while failing to produce a single argument is the one that looks stupid buddy. But you must be right.

Still need convencing why the side dodge lacks so much timing needed and has no stamina costs for assassins considering the reward it has.

Yes, fighting games are balanced according to the rule of risk/reward ratio



A reasonable user. TY! that's exactly the problem. In high MMR you start to see the balancing issues.

You can misread and attack me all you want. I did not need to provide any details because I was agreeing with you and stating my opinion..

neogeo___
02-18-2017, 09:40 PM
You can misread and attack me all you want. I did not need to provide any details because I was agreeing with you and stating my opinion..

If this was the case I do apologize. Either I misread or you weren't clear enough.

As for my reply, it was only what I felt was in kind when compared to yours.

Kaotic_CipherTV
02-18-2017, 09:50 PM
If this was the case I do apologize. Either I misread or you weren't clear enough.

As for my reply, it was only what I felt was in kind when compared to yours.

You just misread. I am not a forum ******, I don't need to attack someone to get my rocks off. I am here for serious information and opinions based in a higher level of play. Sadly most people get 2hours in the game and complain about the weakest assassin being OP. From Closed to Open beta to release ive easily logged 60hours or more into my Orochi and I can say that. Which is why i was agreeing with you. You are one of the few players not jumping on the nerf the weakest assassin bandwagon.

Also I have noticed that the Orochi is the only class that can be interrupted mid attack via a GB. Both riptide strike and storm rush can be animation cancelled by a GB, not sure if this is a bug or if the "agile counterattacker" is just to easy to counter.

I am unsure if a nobushi can go hidden stance for immunity frames or if this is a P2P problem. I had one last night where every time I got through her range she would hidden stance to take no damage.

I play Orochi not for it to be easy or hard, I chose this class because I love samurai and this was the embodiment of the playstyle I wanted to play. I think it is a solid class IF the mechanics worked as intended. Once GB is put back to normal and if they can figure out whats going on with the block mechanic (if its not a p2p issue) it will be a more better for everyone.

Blackball8
02-18-2017, 09:54 PM
Someone actually posted that assassins have the steepest learning curve??? I got a good laugh out of that.

neogeo___
02-18-2017, 10:25 PM
You just misread. I am not a forum ******, I don't need to attack someone to get my rocks off. I am here for serious information and opinions based in a higher level of play. Sadly most people get 2hours in the game and complain about the weakest assassin being OP. From Closed to Open beta to release ive easily logged 60hours or more into my Orochi and I can say that. Which is why i was agreeing with you. You are one of the few players not jumping on the nerf the weakest assassin bandwagon.

Also I have noticed that the Orochi is the only class that can be interrupted mid attack via a GB. Both riptide strike and storm rush can be animation cancelled by a GB, not sure if this is a bug or if the "agile counterattacker" is just to easy to counter.

I am unsure if a nobushi can go hidden stance for immunity frames or if this is a P2P problem. I had one last night where every time I got through her range she would hidden stance to take no damage.

I play Orochi not for it to be easy or hard, I chose this class because I love samurai and this was the embodiment of the playstyle I wanted to play. I think it is a solid class IF the mechanics worked as intended. Once GB is put back to normal and if they can figure out whats going on with the block mechanic (if its not a p2p issue) it will be a more better for everyone.

Imho he has his mechanic flaws as well. When I'm up against an Orochi that has good timing input as a Nobushi, I can never block his top light attack after hit from the rush move, and many times even after blocking it the top light still connects, it's predictable that's what he's going to and prob has a lot to due with connection, but if he lands the rush and is quick to input the tpo light nobushi can't block.
Also many times even starting the top light attack late he will still interrupt a lot os chars animations, seems a bit unfair, think it should be tweaked tbh. As far as side dodge, decent timing requirement should be a priority and also a stamina cost to bring the risk/reward to a decent playable lvl. As it stands it is not balanced.


Someone actually posted that assassins have the steepest learning curve??? I got a good laugh out of that.

Yep. Must be a troll.

Just had a match against a peacekeeper that was ocasional blocking while spinning analog to attack and you just cannot play against mechanics such, ridiculously broken, you'd think there'd be a penalty for inputiing so many stance controls in a short window of time, that there'd be a penalty between stance change where you'd be unable to attack, that maybe it would somehow drain stamina or something else to deter such play styles and favor skilled timing inputs. But no, it's truly the scrub day and age. Join them or be frustrated beyond reason.

Honestly starting to regret buying the game. Don't get me wrong, I love the game and been supporting it since the 2015E3 announcement. But this kind of gameplay, obviously broken and exploitable is just no fun and afaik Ubi just keeps ignoring it. You either counter pick, go defender uber turtle, o do the same scrub *** tactic as assassin, or you have a way more difficult match ahead of you. Disgusting honestly.

Immortal_Zeal
02-18-2017, 10:40 PM
The key word is "high level".

Orochi and PK are easy to dominate regardless of skill. Any high level player will dominate regardless of class.

Pk = spam attacks cause they're fast and deadly

Orochi = spam light attacks/side step attacks and guard breaks into heavy

neogeo___
02-18-2017, 10:44 PM
He does have a better match up chart than the rest of the cast (so far) and is the character of choice for like 90% of high MMR players. But I really don't think he's that bad to fight against.

Countering the Weebo Champion:
1. Don't use a lot of heavies. Mix up if you feel the need to risk it.
2. Sidestep often.
3. Pay attention to his limited guard.
4. Bait his sidesteps with cancelled unblockables & punish them. (Kensei's Top Chain Finisher cancelled into his Side Chain Finisher works very well).
5. His storm rush hits the same side every time. It's easy to defend.

Don't mean to be the jerk here but...

1- attacking first even with light attacks will get you punished from his side dodge>light attack> top light/guard break
2 - Not the worse piece of advice but doesn't actually do much to help and may leave you vulnerable to a time to light attack depending on your stance going into the dodge and considering his GB range will leave you vulnerable to that as well.
3 - his guard is literally unimportant considering his side dodge range and timing required with 0 stamina costa
4 - this is the best advice you gave, bait him to do the first move and try to interrupt if possible, if not parry, if not, combo into his space ever mindful he will break free from a combo that hit the start up simply by dodging
5 - not true, it may come from either side, and although it's easy to defend, it gives orochi a free top light attack that in turn grants him another one against certain match ups. If not it is a very good way of closing in to guard break after block or even cancel to top light attack or guard break.

You weren't describing a true high skilled Orochi imho I regret to say.

Very few to no downside playing an assassin as a skilled players that knows what he's doing and what and when to exploit certain mechanics in certain match up. Specially compared to the rest of the roster. Seriously disappointing, this coming from a player that hope for a true decent and fair balance in this game

neogeo___
02-18-2017, 10:49 PM
The key word is "high level".

Orochi and PK are easy to dominate regardless of skill. Any high level player will dominate regardless of class.

Pk = spam attacks cause they're fast and deadly

Orochi = spam light attacks/side step attacks and guard breaks into heavy

Not sure if I know what you mean.

If by that you mean that 2 high lvl players, 1 playing assassin and another going whatever other class than the assassin will have the advantage specially playing counter attacker? than I agree.

If not, and you mean that any match up is the same and assassins don't have a clear advantage specially in skilled hands than just drop us some links of you playing cause I'd love to see what *keyword* "high level" really means

Gensui.Musashi
02-18-2017, 11:01 PM
so many cry babys again *-* , nerf that, buff this. I never had any problems with the assassins just with poison/bleed. All what you guys want is that you dont lose against them anymore. Its so easy to block side steps and fast attacks are also blockable after some training.

neogeo___
02-18-2017, 11:49 PM
so many cry babys again *-* , nerf that, buff this. I never had any problems with the assassins just with poison/bleed. All what you guys want is that you dont lose against them anymore. Its so easy to block side steps and fast attacks are also blockable after some training.

Talking about unbalanced mechanics that don't quite meet a decent risk/reward ratio

Not even lvl 3 bots exploit many features that players are exploiting and stamina costs are definitely poorly thought out. But hey, sure! The "git gud" bandwagon is here. Guess you must be right, cause that's always true, not vague in the slighest and pretty objective!

Thanks for your most interesting and well founded input. You sure know your stuff

VoidstarTV
02-19-2017, 12:01 AM
What are you guys smoking? You've seen a high level berserker using the infinite chain? Then he wasn't playing someone high skilled. Infinite chain is so easily countered it isn't funny. Plus if you block a light attack from a berserker you can get a free guard break (which they are fixing)

I'm an almost prestige 3 berserker and I follow the competitive discussions (ones that don't have op or nerf anywhere in the subject content) and I'll tell you right now berserker is considered one of the weakest classes in the game (raider holds the title) because he is so easily punished.

The berserker is a class that easily punishes players who aren't as good as they think they are. This forum is full of those people judging by all the threads I've read today, including this one.

If people actually knew what they were talking about when it comes to balance and "high level play" then there wouldn't be so much screeching about orochi and pk and now berserker. Informed people would be complaining about how damn strong the warden toolkit is. I see no threads about the warden, the best competitive class in the game. You know why? Because the good people use Reddit and not these forums to discuss competitive balance and tier rankings.

All this whining on the official forums is only going to encourage Ubisoft to "balance" the wrong things. Orochi is a strong class. Probably the third best class in the game. Pk is below that. Berserker is almost at the bottom.

Go learn how to play a warden or warlord and see what I'm talking about.

neogeo___
02-19-2017, 04:28 AM
What are you guys smoking? You've seen a high level berserker using the infinite chain? Then he wasn't playing someone high skilled. Infinite chain is so easily countered it isn't funny. Plus if you block a light attack from a berserker you can get a free guard break (which they are fixing)

I'm an almost prestige 3 berserker and I follow the competitive discussions (ones that don't have op or nerf anywhere in the subject content) and I'll tell you right now berserker is considered one of the weakest classes in the game (raider holds the title) because he is so easily punished.

The berserker is a class that easily punishes players who aren't as good as they think they are. This forum is full of those people judging by all the threads I've read today, including this one.

If people actually knew what they were talking about when it comes to balance and "high level play" then there wouldn't be so much screeching about orochi and pk and now berserker. Informed people would be complaining about how damn strong the warden toolkit is. I see no threads about the warden, the best competitive class in the game. You know why? Because the good people use Reddit and not these forums to discuss competitive balance and tier rankings.

All this whining on the official forums is only going to encourage Ubisoft to "balance" the wrong things. Orochi is a strong class. Probably the third best class in the game. Pk is below that. Berserker is almost at the bottom.

Go learn how to play a warden or warlord and see what I'm talking about.

Plays assassin but says the game is balanced and the only issue is a matter of "git gud"?! Check.

And fyi I do agree with the general point, only decent part of your entire post, the the Warden also needs some tweaks (another char with a very high usage percentile atm). If the warlord couldn't cancel the headbutt into guard break I honestly don't get why the warden should be able to cancel his shoulder bash into one. Also stamina costs are very needed for him making it so he can't bash with attacks in the mix 4/5 times before running out of stamina which gives him a huge area control in many duel situations where you have a narrow fighting area. Yes the options are to interrupt, that is if he didn't combo hit you before going into bash rinse and repeating, or dodge, which might not be enough for lack of space or his ability to cancel into guardbreak. very harassing, probably more than supposed to, but that would be fine if not possible of doing in a spam lvl. His zone attack has ridiculous speed and range and is one of the fez chars that may use his zone attack as an actual valid and effective option in a duel situation.

For you that only see the game from the assassin perspective, which is very wrong of you since you are calling out others for not knowing with they are talking about and needing to git gud, I'll share with you possibly the most interesting read into mechanics and balance I've read in a long while.

Enjoy and learn:

https://redd.it/5utcwp

TheMalakith
02-19-2017, 04:53 AM
Plays assassin but says the game is balanced and the only issue is a matter of "git gud"?! Check.

And fyi I do agree with the general point, only decent part of your entire post, the the Warden also needs some tweaks (another char with a very high usage percentile atm). If the warlord couldn't cancel the headbutt into guard break I honestly don't get why the warden should be able to cancel his shoulder bash into one. Also stamina costs are very needed for him making it so he can bash with attacks in the mix 4/5 times before running out of stamina which gives him a use are control in many duel situations where you have a narrow fighting are. Yes the options are to interrupt, that is if he didn't combo hit you before going into bash rinse and repeating, or dodge, which might not be enough for lack of space or his ability to cancel into guardbreak. very harassing, probably more than supposed to, but that would be fine if not possible of doing in a spam lvl. His zone attack has ridiculous speed and range and is one of the fez chars that may use his zone attack as an actual valid and effective option in a duel situation.

For you that only see the game from the assassin perspective, which is very wrong of you since you are calling out others for not knowing with they are talking about and needing to git gud, I'll share with you possibly the most interesting read into mechanics and balance I've read in a long while.

Enjoy and learn:

https://redd.it/5utcwp

Well, that explanes why my lawbringer gets absolutely crushes by assassins spamming lights. It litterally can't swap guards fast enough to counter it. Great job ubisoft!

neogeo___
02-19-2017, 07:24 AM
Well, that explanes why my lawbringer gets absolutely crushes by assassins spamming lights. It litterally can't swap guards fast enough to counter it. Great job ubisoft!

For me this was pretty obvious throughout all the tests when playing the least advantageous chars.

Still the self entitled "git gud experts" will argue against it. They probably never played a low speed stance change char to begin with. Don't get me wrong, sure, low speed is needed for balance (probably not so low tbh) the same way high speed is also needed (definitely not as high and passive to input spam), but combine this with a broken side dodge that requires close to no timing and certain exploits and scrub tactics begin to arise. Skill has nothing to do with it. Throw possible connection into the mix and countering this is pretty much impossible tbh

Bottom line is, a low speed stance change can't afford miss an interrupt or chain starter block while not being able to afford attacking first having to rely a lot in feints and active blocking, putting it simply, a very higher skilled gameplay with little to no room for error that doesn't reward near enough what it should against these other classes.

At high lvls, balance is definitely an issue, I play and win with considerable ease against lvl 3 bots, difference is they don't play exclusively the scrub way. Nothing will change unless Ubi fixes this. And against such obvious and clear proof, shameless players will just begin saying they want to win, and anyone can use the same chars in the same way. For me as a fan that wants the game to succeed and have a decent match up balance, I'm disappointed beyond words. I thank the X-poster for taking the time to bring this to light with decent proof and testing, I just hope Ubi gets on it asap before the decent, mature and true fan part of the community gives up and leaves or starts to be the cancer so many are already in high ELO

JustInsertAName
02-22-2017, 08:18 PM
Each class has it's strengths and weaknesses, like all games. Not trying to knock anyone for choosing to play any way. You spent $60-$120 depending on your level of commitment. What I am trying to get across is this game needs minor fixes...that's it. There are clear advantages that make the playing field a bit uneven, I would like to help map out what those are and help any way I can. Personally as someone who has logged hours into the orochi I can say that the characters GB should be a bit dailed back, the mechanic is being abused and it makes the game unenjoyable at times. Maybe adding a stamina penalty to the zephyr slash to avoid spamming, That would make the use of that move a bit more strategic.

deltatchief
02-22-2017, 08:21 PM
Zerker <3

TheLawbring3r
02-22-2017, 08:30 PM
Well, that explanes why my lawbringer gets absolutely crushes by assassins spamming lights. It litterally can't swap guards fast enough to counter it. Great job ubisoft!

A fellow Lawbringer here and I can definitely testify that this is true. Assassin's that spam lights are nigh impossible to kill as a Lawbringer. All you can do is stand there and try to defend till a teammate comes to help. LB's slow attacks and guard changes are no match for the quick moving, heavy hitting assassin class.

Fa3r.
02-22-2017, 08:35 PM
We need to stop screaming about balance and start screaming about diversity.

Literally high level play usually consists of using a 1/4 of the moveset and spamming it. There is no reason to use anything else, as certain moves are clearly far superior than others. This leaves mix-ups boring and predictable for quite a few of the classes; high level orochi included from what I've seen. Top lights, parry GB top heavy. He needs tuned so that there is a reason to do something different.

I could say the same for the lawbringer stamina lock spam, warden vortex, and warlord stamina lock.

All wardens play the same, and people think they're so good just spamming shoulder charge and top lights. This is not intricate nor difficult gameplay.

The only thing you can do in this game against a defensive opportunity driven spammy playstyle is try to bait a parry with a feint. That is not fun gameplay. There is hardly any penalty for some classes to spam, and why is stamina drain a mechanic? Stamina drain/lock feels terrible and should not exist.

Watching the "high end" gameplay of this game makes me cringe and want to sleep at the same time. What gets me is people defend these thoughtless playstyles endlessly. It makes the game boring. It needs reworked before competitive, because there is nothing competitive about the current tiny meta.

JustInsertAName
02-22-2017, 11:08 PM
We need to stop screaming about balance and start screaming about diversity.

Literally high level play usually consists of using a 1/4 of the moveset and spamming it. There is no reason to use anything else, as certain moves are clearly far superior than others. This leaves mix-ups boring and predictable for quite a few of the classes; high level orochi included from what I've seen. Top lights, parry GB top heavy. He needs tuned so that there is a reason to do something different.

I could say the same for the lawbringer stamina lock spam, warden vortex, and warlord stamina lock.

All wardens play the same, and people think they're so good just spamming shoulder charge and top lights. This is not intricate nor difficult gameplay.

The only thing you can do in this game against a defensive opportunity driven spammy playstyle is try to bait a parry with a feint. That is not fun gameplay. There is hardly any penalty for some classes to spam, and why is stamina drain a mechanic? Stamina drain/lock feels terrible and should not exist.

Watching the "high end" gameplay of this game makes me cringe and want to sleep at the same time. What gets me is people defend these thoughtless playstyles endlessly. It makes the game boring. It needs reworked before competitive, because there is nothing competitive about the current tiny meta.

Not sure what high level you're referring to because most examples I see at the highest level is locking in on attacks that mesh seamlessly from one to another. If someone is using 1/4th of a particular move set against a knowledgable opponent will leave them lacking. If you have $20 and only spend $5, can you really be mad when you feel like you're starving? Most high level orochi play I see/encounter involves hard parries for callous mistakes, followed up by a health draining combo. They deadliest ones are able to gauge your predictability and capitalize on it. If you cook the same thing for dinner, i'll figure out the recipe soon enough.

Fa3r.
02-23-2017, 11:30 PM
Not sure what high level you're referring to because most examples I see at the highest level is locking in on attacks that mesh seamlessly from one to another. If someone is using 1/4th of a particular move set against a knowledgable opponent will leave them lacking. If you have $20 and only spend $5, can you really be mad when you feel like you're starving? Most high level orochi play I see/encounter involves hard parries for callous mistakes, followed up by a health draining combo. They deadliest ones are able to gauge your predictability and capitalize on it. If you cook the same thing for dinner, i'll figure out the recipe soon enough.

But it's not stringing together attacks seamlessly from one to another. It's poking. The only time any sort of combo happens is when it is guaranteed to hit. This is how the game is mechanically. It is fact. I'll match your analogy.

You can spend $5 and have a more fuller stomach as opposed to spending $20 in this game. There is no motivation to spend $20 because it's most efficient to spend $5.

Parrying into a short combo for guaranteed damage is not skillful or diverse lol.

Just keep watching, you'll see what the meta essentially solidifies as unless changes are made :)

Gnarxly
02-23-2017, 11:36 PM
Orochi too OP, everyone knows that!