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View Full Version : Do you want a 4v4 mode with no gear? (poll)



Ragnar---
02-18-2017, 03:20 PM
I just watched this video https://clips.twitch.tv/iskys/TameOstrichPRChase and I honestly don't want that gameplay for my 4v4's. Yes the guys fighting him shouldn't have attacked him so much to give him revenge but higher level gear can enable revenge in about 2 hits when its stats are correct.

I really love the 1v1 and 2v2 modes due to them having no gear stats, it seems strange to me that there wasn't a 4v4 mode on release that doesn't let gear semi dictate the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx2-i7mJyR4

Here is another example of why a no gear 4v4 would be a great idea.

This mode would be optional.

YappysDaBeast
02-18-2017, 03:25 PM
Nope, 4v4 is fine how it is, less gear means not being able to change the odds when out numbered 1v3/1v4.

Ragnar---
02-18-2017, 03:26 PM
Nope, 4v4 is fine how it is, less gear means not being able to change the odds when out numbered 1v3/1v4.

The revenge system is the way to change the odds in a 3v1/4v1 situation.

YappysDaBeast
02-18-2017, 03:36 PM
The revenge system is the way to change the odds in a 3v1/4v1 situation.

If you play like a zerg, you deserve to be destroyed by 1 single guy.

Ragnar---
02-19-2017, 12:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx2-i7mJyR4

After seeing this I don't think 4v4 will last very long if this is what we have to face. What a joke.

YappysDaBeast
02-19-2017, 12:52 PM
That punishes players who can't block for ****, their own fault for not being able to control a guy who's revenged. I always keep them harassed so their revenge is useless.
The amount of times I've destroyed people 1v3 and 1v4 because they can't play for **** is almost every single game.
Shouldn't reward people who lack skill.

Ragnar---
02-19-2017, 01:06 PM
That punishes players who can't block for ****, their own fault for not being able to control a guy who's revenged. I always keep them harassed so their revenge is useless.
The amount of times I've destroyed people 1v3 and 1v4 because they can't play for **** is almost every single game.
Shouldn't reward people who lack skill.

Do you think it is skillful to mix max your gear easily by getting revenge in a 1v1 situation?.

YappysDaBeast
02-19-2017, 01:24 PM
You can still block attacks the same if they are revenged. Play defensive, dodge, parry.

CabalTrainee
02-19-2017, 01:35 PM
I wouldn´t mind the stats if the game would actually put me against enemies with the same gear level.

Ragnar---
02-19-2017, 01:36 PM
You can still block attacks the same if they are revenged. Play defensive, dodge, parry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx2-i7mJyR4

How is that balanced?.

Ragnar---
02-19-2017, 02:35 PM
The more I play the more I can't see any other option for this game. Being a level 10 Warden fighting against rep 3+ players just isn't a fun experience. Why can't there be a 4v4 mode that is just you and your weapon versus the enemy and his?.

Mid_Evil
02-19-2017, 02:42 PM
I want gear to matter. I'm only at prestige 1 and would hate to see gear no longer matter. What would be the point in getting gear at all? What would the point be in getting reputation? It would completely take away any reason to grind out levels other than visual customization which you can just but with steel in many cases.

Mid_Evil
02-19-2017, 02:48 PM
Also if your playing offensively against a player with active revenge it's completely your own fault for getting smacked around. If they pop revenge back off, block, dodge, parry, or guard brake into a light. No don't even risk the parry. Could miss it and get hit and they have unlimited stamina in revenge. Play defense til the Revenge goes away then go back to chipping away his health.

Quinn1987
02-19-2017, 02:53 PM
No.

Ragnar---
02-19-2017, 02:56 PM
I want gear to matter. I'm only at prestige 1 and would hate to see gear no longer matter. What would be the point in getting gear at all? What would the point be in getting reputation? It would completely take away any reason to grind out levels other than visual customization which you can just but with steel in many cases.

Then you can carry on playing a gamemode with gear?. This is an alternate option that you wouldn't be forced to play.

MemoireStar
02-19-2017, 03:46 PM
To be honest, I don't notice a difference when facing people with gear level 100 compared to my gear level 10 or whatever I have. You can kill them just like you can kill everyone else.
Now what I would like to see is a Dominion/Elimination mode without Feats; I'm tired of losing 80% of my health getting longbows and crossbows (etc) to the face.

Ragnar---
02-19-2017, 03:48 PM
To be honest, I don't notice a difference when facing people with gear level 100 compared to my gear level 10 or whatever I have. You can kill them just like you can kill everyone else.
Now what I would like to see is a Dominion/Elimination mode without Feats; I'm tired of losing 80% of my health getting longbows and crossbows (etc) to the face.

You haven't come across the meta builds yet then.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1583516-High-Tier-Revenge-builds-Break-the-Game-Perfect-Example

Here is an example if you're interested.

Danioku
02-19-2017, 03:53 PM
At his point, going into a 4v4 with full revenge build is so unfair. I tryed myself and i felt so dirty being able to abuse the 1vs2-3 and to camp their base all game long. Gear did the work not my skill.

Probably when everyone will have full build the game will be more balanced but right now, when you are Rep 3+ with full revenge build, lower geared enemy have just no chance even if they try to 3v1 you.

I'll wait and i'll play only no-gear game modes in the while.

Ragnar---
02-19-2017, 03:55 PM
At his point, going into a 4v4 with full revenge build is so unfair. I tryed myself and i felt so dirty being able to abuse the 1vs2-3 and to camp their base all game long. Gear did the work not my skill.

Probably when everyone will have full build the game will be more balanced but right now, when you are Rep 3+ with full revenge build, lower geared enemy have just no chance even if they try to 3v1 you.

I'll wait and i'll play only no-gear game modes in the while.

Same. I don't understand how people don't want a no gear mode when they wouldn't have to play it. Did I word the thread wrong or something?

Gnarxly
02-19-2017, 04:32 PM
And than you meet someone who is more skilled than you are, and no gear or revenge helps you.

FailOfHDDVD
02-19-2017, 04:37 PM
only if you refund back the steel that I paid for.

Lufury
02-19-2017, 04:43 PM
I just watched this video https://clips.twitch.tv/iskys/TameOstrichPRChase and I honestly don't want that gameplay for my 4v4's. Yes the guys fighting him shouldn't have attacked him so much to give him revenge but higher level gear can enable revenge in about 2 hits when its stats are correct.

I really love the 1v1 and 2v2 modes due to them having no gear stats, it seems strange to me that there wasn't a 4v4 mode on release that doesn't let gear semi dictate the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx2-i7mJyR4

Here is another example of why a no gear 4v4 would be a great idea.

omg its not the gearscore lol just perma fill her with rage instead of grabbing her and give her 3 heavy people are like we have number advantage so useful when i just press light attacks :D i bet my *** if they wouldve done a 1v1 there they would have killed her. Gear makes not that much

NeoVidia
02-19-2017, 05:23 PM
I just watched this video https://clips.twitch.tv/iskys/TameOstrichPRChase and I honestly don't want that gameplay for my 4v4's. Yes the guys fighting him shouldn't have attacked him so much to give him revenge but higher level gear can enable revenge in about 2 hits when its stats are correct.

I really love the 1v1 and 2v2 modes due to them having no gear stats, it seems strange to me that there wasn't a 4v4 mode on release that doesn't let gear semi dictate the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx2-i7mJyR4

Here is another example of why a no gear 4v4 would be a great idea.

Let me answer this with another question: Why did gear stats have to be in the game in the first place?
I honestly don't get it. You take a game, balance it for 1v1 and group fights. Then add a random thing as gear stats to completely throw off the balance......... 4v4 feels like WoW PVP in where the best Chinese farmer wins. To add insult to injury, you can buy steel packs to buy more gear and upgrades faster(and yes I do know you have to be a certain rep level for certain class gear). Either you win because of superior gear or lose because of inferior gear. Skill becomes such a small thing in a skill based game like this when you add gear stats.

I was seriously doubting even buying the game because something so nonsensical was put in it. Luckily we have 2v2 and 1v1 without gear stats.

Although IMO: To keep it fair, if were gonna have modes where we have 4v4 without gear stats. I feel like 1v1 and 2v2 WITH gear stats should be an option as well. For those who do enjoy it. I for sure as **** don't, but I alienating a group of people would be a **** move.

Ragnar---
02-19-2017, 05:25 PM
only if you refund back the steel that I paid for.

You do realise this is optional right?.

FailOfHDDVD
02-19-2017, 05:27 PM
You do realise this is optional right?.

NO

I paid for the steel to upgrade items in 4v4.

If they remove item upgrade, I deserve my money back because of false advertisement.

It's like selling you the price of Japanese Apples but giving you USA apples at the end.

Drekle
02-19-2017, 05:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx2-i7mJyR4

How is that balanced?.

I've thought the orochi has been IMBA for awhile. Bring his light attack damage down to the Valk's... then maybe the Valk will get her buffs!

NeoVidia
02-19-2017, 05:30 PM
I've thought the orochi has been IMBA for awhile. Bring his light attack damage down to the Valk's... then maybe the Valk will get her buffs!

Valk is already getting her buffs and orochi is normaly very risk reward and easy to deal with if you get the basic mechanics down. Not in that video though, that is stupid.


NO

I paid for the steel to upgrade items in 4v4.

If they remove item upgrade, I deserve my money back because of false advertisement.

It's like selling you the price of Japanese Apples but giving you USA apples at the end.

Wouldn't mean they removed gear from 4v4, they would just give us an option to play without it. So in legal terms, your gear would still be valid even if the community would abandon it then. Which is why they will never remove it now that its in the game. Also, they are legally sound because you did not have to spend the steel on upgrades for gear, they might to refund the steel you spend on upgrades at best.

Ragnar---
02-19-2017, 05:38 PM
NO

I paid for the steel to upgrade items in 4v4.

If they remove item upgrade, I deserve my money back because of false advertisement.

It's like selling you the price of Japanese Apples but giving you USA apples at the end.

You're not grasping my point at all here. You wont lose anything, you can still play 4v4 with gear in another mode. This is for people who want to play 4v4 but without gear.

FailOfHDDVD
02-19-2017, 05:41 PM
You're not grasping my point at all here. You wont lose anything, you can still play 4v4 with gear in another mode. This is for people who want to play 4v4 but without gear.

Additional modes are fine but will diverse the player base.

I do suggest a 4v4 ranked mode if we are doing no gear there.

AKA Gear for casual play. Non-gear for ranked

Sakinahz
02-19-2017, 05:52 PM
Holy Shi! Did he just do 80% dmg with 2 top light attack on that warden in the stairs lol?! Man with how the matchmaking is right now every noob is gonna get matched against these builds and the player counts will drop like flies.They said they would keep how gear affect stats to a minimum and this is not what were seeing here for sure.

SirCorrino
02-19-2017, 06:01 PM
Holy Shi! Did he just do 80% dmg with 2 top light attack on that warden in the stairs lol?! Man with how the matchmaking is right now every noob is gonna get matched against these builds and the player counts will drop like flies.They said they would keep how gear affect stats to a minimum and this is not what were seeing here for sure.

Yes. Here's an Orochi with stacked Attack, Revenge Attack and Revenge Gain, vs a Warden with also stacked Attack at the cost of defense. That leads to a lot of damage taken. I've fought similarly geared Orochis and I take nowhere near that much damage because I play more defensively with defensive stats.

Derity
02-19-2017, 06:16 PM
Nope, splitting the player pool even more is just a bad idea.

Ragnar---
02-19-2017, 06:22 PM
Nope, splitting the player pool even more is just a bad idea.

That'd be true if the game had 30k or less players but the game currently has 90k on PC. That's more than enough to have a no gear 4v4 gamemode. Replace Skirmish with it since nobody play that as it is.

FailOfHDDVD
02-19-2017, 06:31 PM
That'd be true if the game had 30k or less players but the game currently has 90k on PC. That's more than enough to have a no gear 4v4 gamemode. Replace Skirmish with it since nobody play that as it is.

it's only 70k or so during weekends. It's only 2/3 of that during low times.

Danioku
02-19-2017, 06:37 PM
btw everyone will be 108 full geared in 60-70 hours of playtime without buying anything so, probably next week we'll see full 108 4v4 games

Sakinahz
02-19-2017, 06:38 PM
btw everyone will be 108 full geared in 60-70 hours of playtime without buying anything so, probably next week we'll see full 108 4v4 games

Well ppl like me who likes to play many different characters are kinda screwed on that end :/

Biocoast
02-19-2017, 06:43 PM
I don't think the gear is the problem, just that some stats are too strong and need to be looked at... otherwise it adds a little bit of "personal" playpreference to the game and IMO that needs to stay

Ragnar---
02-20-2017, 06:38 PM
Well ppl like me who likes to play many different characters are kinda screwed on that end :/

This is very frustrating I think. If I want to try a new character at level 1 I will fight people with purple/gold gear ranks and get destroyed until I get half decent gear myself. How is that any fun for me the player?.

Panty_Ninja
02-20-2017, 07:10 PM
NO

I paid for the steel to upgrade items in 4v4.

If they remove item upgrade, I deserve my money back because of false advertisement.

It's like selling you the price of Japanese Apples but giving you USA apples at the end.

So you encourage Pay To Win?
How is that even close to a valid idea for a skill based, team tactical, twitch based fighting game?? I Think Ragnar's idea about a non-gear mode, and a gear stats mode is a good idea.
Alliteratively they could do some serious number tweaks on the gear stats to make them more reasonable, and actually adding some diverse character builds. But I could see how finding that "sweet spot" taking many, many patches to get it right...
The BEST thing for this game would be to make a Ranked Dominion Mode, with NO gear stats.
I LOVE this game. Have been a huge fan since the Alpha test back in September. As it stands right now. I hardly play anymore just the odd duel or brawl match, but it just doesn't quite scratch that itch of action packed, team melee battles, before the ridiculous gear stats made skill irrelevant.

Ragnar---
02-20-2017, 07:17 PM
So you encourage Pay To Win?
How is that even close to a valid idea for a skill based, team tactical, twitch based fighting game?? I Think Ragnar's idea about a non-gear mode, and a gear stats mode is a good idea.
Alliteratively they could do some serious number tweaks on the gear stats to make them more reasonable, and actually adding some diverse character builds. But I could see how finding that "sweet spot" taking many, many patches to get it right...
The BEST thing for this game would be to make a Ranked Dominion Mode, with NO gear stats.
I LOVE this game. Have been a huge fan since the Alpha test back in September. As it stands right now. I hardly play anymore just the odd duel or brawl match, but it just doesn't quite scratch that itch of action packed, team melee battles, before the ridiculous gear stats made skill irrelevant.

I always find it odd when people don't want an optional mode they don't have to play.. it's not like I'm really asking for much or something unreasonable.

Panty_Ninja
02-20-2017, 08:41 PM
I really hope they add a 4v4 Ranked-No-gear stats mode. Dominion would be best. But at this point I would settle for 4v4 elimination.

Zeolite XIII
02-20-2017, 08:58 PM
I'm sorry but your argument is undermined by how remarkably easy it is to get gear without spending any real world money in a very short amount of time. Did you guys not pick this up from the betas?

If you complete basic and advanced tutorials you receive something like ~2000 steel, drop that on champion status, SPEND NO MORE STEEL. Level to prestige 1 buy 3+ premium scavenge packs and they will each now have 2 rare lvl 7 gear giving you at least 6+... you are now full blue gear score. SPEND NO MORE STEEL. Level to prestige 3 repeat process you are now full heroic purple gear score without spending real world $ and have a basic gear set you can now improve on.

Stop asking for the game to be changed because you didn't bother to put the time in to learn the mechanics.

Munktor
02-20-2017, 09:24 PM
I play a lot of games, and one trend that stays consistent in all of them is the general community backlash to obtaining gear/items. Every game I play that has a system where you can modify your character through gear/unlocks has people complaining that a certain style/build is "OP".

End of the day, matchmaking can't be 100% or you'd have people that can never get matches due to being too "good" (or spending too much time) with the game.

If you want honorable, non-gear related matches - do 1v1's.

Otherwise, stop trying to change the game to YOUR liking.

CaptainPwnet
02-20-2017, 09:27 PM
A lot of people here aren't realizing what the biggest problem of gear is. It facilitates so much revenge spam that the game actually changes quite a bit once people are geared up. If you are in a 1v1 and one of your ally so much as gives your opponent a tap on the shoulder they get revenge. Not the revenge you're used to at lower lvls either, it's the true super saiyan form. Easily able to 2 or 3 shot, in some cases even 1 shot people from full health.

So then you say "don't try to gank him and fight 1v1 then". Well think about this situation that I have actually experienced. My ally was getting 2v1'd so obviously I jump in to help. But unfortunately for myself and my ally the player I targetted had maxed gear score and as soon as I hit him 2 times while he was trying to gank my ally he got revenge and 2 shot me after the revenge parry and then killed my ally in 1 hit from half health. Now how the **** is that balanced?

So even if everyone is at the same gear level running the obvious best build which is revenge, it changes the game so much that it defeats the purpose of it being a team game as you can't even help your allies at all since you will just give your enemy a gigantic powerup for even so much as looking at him the wrong way while your ally fights them.

Then you apply this to group fights and you will see nonstop revenge back and forth forever. I've seen multiple times a person revenged and got grabbed by a shugoki and was beaten on for the entire duration of the grab by 2 other players and he still survived with almost full health still. That's roughly around 6 total heavy attacks plus the shugoki grab damage. Barely even scratched him, and then as soon as he was back up and revenge gone, 2 seconds later and it starts all over again.

Not to mention all the times you get revenge in what is pretty much 1v1's fairly often.

At this point what is the purpose of even having teammates if you can't actually work together?

BIG +1 for no gear stats mode for all game modes. Remove the powerups in elimination too while you're at it. I would think just removing the revenge stats on the gear would work as well. There's no need for this to get stronger than it already is without gear.

A cool down on revenge I think would go a long way as well. If you revenge and fail to utilize it within the duration you should not get another revenge to reward your failure 2 seconds later.

Ragnar---
02-20-2017, 10:02 PM
I'm sorry but your argument is undermined by how remarkably easy it is to get gear without spending any real world money in a very short amount of time. Did you guys not pick this up from the betas?

If you complete basic and advanced tutorials you receive something like ~2000 steel, drop that on champion status, SPEND NO MORE STEEL. Level to prestige 1 buy 3+ premium scavenge packs and they will each now have 2 rare lvl 7 gear giving you at least 6+... you are now full blue gear score. SPEND NO MORE STEEL. Level to prestige 3 repeat process you are now full heroic purple gear score without spending real world $ and have a basic gear set you can now improve on.

Stop asking for the game to be changed because you didn't bother to put the time in to learn the mechanics.

You missed the point of the thread entirely mate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx2-i7mJyR4

These are the geared players I come up against on a daily basis. That's not fun for anybody, sorry.

darksavior1977
02-20-2017, 10:13 PM
Custom game mode has the options you seek.

LegendaryPLANK
02-20-2017, 10:15 PM
The game would not suffer at all with stats out, while it is suffering with them in. My whole group basically can't play Dominion because we've all still got gear level 20 or below. Every match is severely lop sided.

A pointless mechanic to make the game flashier to keep the attention of the ADHD gamer. Heaven forbid we get a good core game that isn't muddied witg copouts and 'progression'. I'd be very happy if gear was purely visual and most people I know agree.

Zeolite XIII
02-20-2017, 10:29 PM
You missed the point of the thread entirely mate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx2-i7mJyR4

These are the geared players I come up against on a daily basis. That's not fun for anybody, sorry.

Yeah i watched the clip: every person he killed tried to "white ninja" the guy from the front. Not a single person in that clip even attempted to hit the guys exposed rear. In fact the people he killed in the opening waited in a damn single file line to die one at a time. No one tried to burn the timer down, no one tried to lure him towards the environmentals on the bridge or down the ramp to the clif. They ran at a revenged orochi in guard from the front one at a time. I mean what do you think is supposed to happen when you try and white ninja a revenged orochi from the front like that?

Ragnar---
02-20-2017, 11:57 PM
Yeah i watched the clip: every person he killed tried to "white ninja" the guy from the front. Not a single person in that clip even attempted to hit the guys exposed rear. In fact the people he killed in the opening waited in a damn single file line to die one at a time. No one tried to burn the timer down, no one tried to lure him towards the environmentals on the bridge or down the ramp to the clif. They ran at a revenged orochi in guard from the front one at a time. I mean what do you think is supposed to happen when you try and white ninja a revenged orochi from the front like that?

You shouldn't die from three light hits in this game. Sorry dude but you're just wrong.

Panty_Ninja
02-21-2017, 02:12 AM
High gear scores end new players. As well as give a massive disadvantage to playing new characters.
Even if two teams with full 108 gear score face off. It devolves into revenge spam heavy attack kills.
No exaggeration: a overheard heavy attacks from a revenged player does 80%+ damage... How in any way is that cool, fun, or fair? It's just the gear... Really sad how much gear scores take away from the actual player skill factor in 4v4 modes.

PandaCDN
02-21-2017, 02:47 AM
I think people need to look at the longevity of the game not only balance. Lets go a month down the road or at this rate a couple weeks. New people or people even wanting to build up new characters (due to how matchmaking is) will be at such a disadvantage that it can possible hurt the growth of this game.

Sure, some might stick around but my bet is the majority will just never touch the game again. It will be no fun getting 2-3 shotted by light attacks. Thats not player skill, thats gear. Now yes there are ways to fight a revenged player with guard breaks or just running away from them but is that what we want, is that what we call a skillful game? on a 3v1, 2 people just spamming guard breaks or everyone running away like a benny hill chase video till revenge wears off.

To me i always felt revenge should be a way to HELP someone outlast and hold your own till your teammates can arrive to help. Not some magical beast mode where if another player sneezes on you, you hulk out and kill people in two hits.

Until the gear can be balanced, gear stats should be cut 75% across the board or removed for now.

C.K.Paterson
02-21-2017, 07:47 AM
I believe this is the biggest problem so far. Due to not playing as much as I would like and wasting time trying to use the lawbringer I have no warriors with reputation one, so when put in games with people who can take a full 4 hit combo and take 1 little bar of health off it takes the piss.
Expecially when after all my efforts of dodging, blocking and parrying it will only take 1-2 hits off a say 108 ranked gear warrior to take me out.

Skill is a major factor in this game witch is great but having a stupidly high gear rank depending on the stats can give players an unfair advantage againsed ether a new player or someone like me who can only play an hour or 2 every so often.

I think maybe when picking the game type you wish to play 1v1, 2v2, 4v4s, before putting you into a matchmaking it should ask you there what warrior you wish to be then find opponents based of that warriors Lv, GR and possibly Kill to death ratio.

Ragnar---
02-21-2017, 12:48 PM
Nice to see a bit of a shift in yes votes in the poll.

Ragnar---
02-21-2017, 02:16 PM
Edited the original post.

SnueGliffer
02-22-2017, 12:51 AM
I see no reason why it cannot be an option. That way people who want it can have it and those who don't can play without it. It scares off newer players who don't have the same gear and get trounced by people with ridiculous gear score.

Ragnar---
02-22-2017, 02:06 PM
I see no reason why it cannot be an option. That way people who want it can have it and those who don't can play without it. It scares off newer players who don't have the same gear and get trounced by people with ridiculous gear score.

Agreed I was watching a streamer last night who has people back out from him all the time, it's not fun for anybody this.

Ragnar---
02-23-2017, 07:16 PM
I haven't posted for a while but the more I play the more I feel the game needs this.

Ragnar---
02-23-2017, 07:23 PM
Gear means **** if you aren't a scrub. Git gud.

People don't understand how to counter a revenge mode enemy.

First off, stop spamming attacks when you out number a foe and he isn't targeting you. All you're doing is giving him revenge mode. If he's not targeting you than guard break and throw so your team gets free hits on him.

Once they've acquired revenge, don't just spam attacks and get knocked down like a noob. That's why you get 2 shot on the ground and can't do anything. Once revenge is popped you can play defensively, or just kite him until it ends. Seriously, revenge mode is only over powered when you don't know what you're doing.

If you're going troll, go somewhere else please. There's more than enough evidence now for why revenge builds and gear in 4v4 is a bit silly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx2-i7mJyR4

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=revenge+build+for+honor

Plenty more here if people are still a bit unsure whether revenge builds are broken.

CarnivalLaw
02-23-2017, 07:26 PM
No. Just get rid of the Revenge mechanic COMPLETELY in all modes.

Ragnar---
02-23-2017, 07:28 PM
No, I'm not trolling, and no, there isn't. People are horrible when facing against people in revenge mode. It's really not that difficult and if you take gear out of elimination/skirmish than it's only going to be for dominion which will make gear practically pointless to purchase other than the looks.

Seriously, people are whining about gear like we're play World of Warcraft or something. If you are skilled than your opponent's gear will not mean much. Not to mention the fact that it really doesn't take that long to get gear anyway.

You have zero idea what you're talking about. So I guess that kind of ends the discussion, especially since I have given proof and you have given...well nothing?.

Anyway, glad to the more people siding with a no gear mode, it'd be a nice change of pace.

Ragnar---
03-04-2017, 11:07 AM
The game needs this. Gear is broken as hell.

Delectable_Sin
03-04-2017, 11:34 AM
The revenge system is the way to change the odds in a 3v1/4v1 situation.

Revenge is ******ed and shouldn't exist. It's a noob mechanic that helps bad players.

Gear is fine, they just need to match players based on their gear level. A 4v4 mode without gear would be stupid.

Valtaya
03-04-2017, 11:38 AM
If you play like a zerg, you deserve to be destroyed by 1 single guy.

This is bull because with the current system you get revenge after 2 hits when you are in 1on1 as well.

They do not need to remove gear, because it IS helping you to fit a hero more to your playing style. However they have to revamp it. Some stats should not be there at all (like block damage), some stats need to be toned down (revenge duration, attack, defense, gain by injury, gain by defense complement each other way too good, leaving the players with only one valid build). All gear have to come with an advantage and a disadvantage (goes well with common and rare, but legendary completely ignores it). And last but not least, this 10% lie is just BS, in the end it should not be more then 10%... the main focus for legendary gear should be better optics.

Hm when looking at it... yah, better no gear at all then what we have now.

KingClinhyde
03-04-2017, 11:39 PM
I really really hope they implement no gearmodes for all existing 4 vs 4 player modes. And hopefully Domonion first since its the bread and butter of For Honor.

It seems like a really easy add-on, that will satisfy a big group of the community and will also be a big help to new players.
And for everybody defending the gearstats, the mode with gear should remain for you. So no reason to argue, different people like different ways to play a game.


I really like dominion, but I really dislike the difference in stats. The base difference between the classes and feats is enough for me. For me the gearstats change the tactics and strategy in a way I really dont like. It almost the deletes the advantage of outnumbering someone. Wich deletes the cool interactions of group combat. The way it is now I feel its better to run lone wolf in dominion than with my battlebrother at my side. And I can already lone wolf in duel, so I hope fighting side by side in dominion will be an advantage again.

AkenoKobayashi
03-05-2017, 12:40 AM
There should be a 4v4 version of Dom without gear stats.

Ragnar---
03-19-2017, 02:21 AM
I haven't played for a month now and don't think I'd come back unless something like this was added. What's the fun in fighting these builds?. Vote and make your voices heard!.

berserker7331
03-19-2017, 02:48 AM
Nope, it is fine the way it is. Too many salty people who pkay casually says to add another 4 v 4 game without gears? It will definitely kill the regular dominion match and divide players. No, definitely no. Just play the game and level up your characters to get good gears, it aint that hard you lazy *****s

solho
03-19-2017, 03:04 AM
I think it would be nice that the 4vs4 mode is without a gear but adds a new 8vs8 or 10vs10 mode with gear, dominion need to be a mode 8vs8 or more with a gear. i dont like in elimination with a gear and buff at the beginning of the round.

and obviously revenge need a nerf, not that they take it out revenge its perfect balance for dishonest fights, but need a nerf now its so broken.

berserker7331
03-19-2017, 03:09 AM
8v8 or 10v10 would even cause more disconnection problems, well maybe revenge needs rework but gears are fine the way it is

cha_cha_cha-2.0
03-19-2017, 03:14 AM
Gear abuse: so pro, so skillfull, just what makes for honor a competitive game... lol.
Of course, YES, a 4v4 mode without gear stats would be much apreciated

Natsaru
03-19-2017, 04:05 AM
Stop crying and go get ur gear

Felis_Menari
03-19-2017, 04:24 AM
If you're going to remove gear stats from 4v4s, you may as well remove feats while you're at it @_@. Right now, revenge does need to be tweaked; the relative stats, when maxed, are what make for some crazy encounters sometimes. Revenge procs too easily sometimes (1v1 at the start of an elimination match, or 2v1s in general 4v4 matches). So, let's focus on that first, shall we?

Cradicias
03-19-2017, 09:18 AM
Revenge needs some tweaks, feats need some tweaks, heroes need some tweaks... This game needs a lot of work to make it balanced and bring the Honor back. Let's give some feedback, hm?

First, Revenge. Revenge needs both a buff and a nerf in some regards. Personally, I still feel like Revenge mode doesn't provide enough protection from being ganked. I know, the damage is insane, but a group of 4 people (or a Shugoki with a friend) can literally just Guard Break (or Hug of War) and Heavy attack a Revenger into oblivion. I feel like Revenge mode needs to make it so that people who are in said mode can't be Guard Broken except by the person they're locked into. Thus giving them the intended chance to turn a fight around in their favor. But, by that extension, Revenge mode also needs to be dumbed down so that it can only be activated when more than one person is locked onto you OR you've taken damage from more than one source within a certain time frame. This means 1v1's will be a bit more fair instead of people just building revenge super quick, activating it right before being hit, then killing their defenseless victim in one or two hits.Maybe even make it so that Parries only knock down people who are not the Revengers current target? That way the current target doesn't need to be constantly being knocked down and ooked in the dooker. Also, headbutts, shield bashes, etc shouldn't cause a knock down in revenge mode. It's just too abusable.

Feats. Personally, I feel like Feats should be limited to only Dominion. This might not be a popular view, but Feats just make Elimination and Skirmish so freaking annoying. Could be having a fun, challenging fight, then next thing you know a catapult just obliterates you in one second or Orochis loading up on Bows and Throwing Knives for a quick one two punch that can kill other assassin classes before they even have a chance. Not to mention, it doesn't encourage team play, it just encourages people to be kill stealers by nuking their teammates for the death blow.

As for Hero gameplay... Eh... That's a tough one. But, I feel like spamming and ring outs need to be a lot more difficult/be punished by the game. The game is called For Honor, for goodness sakes, yet there's no discouragement to go for a quick and dishonorable ring out? How bout giving them zero renown for their lack of skill kill, or maybe a "Dishonor" debuff that lowers their damage/health to mark them until they get an honorable kill. Spamming could have something similar. Certain moves like Shield Bash, Shoulder Charge, Headbutt, Leg Sweep, etc? You use them too frequently, you get a Stamina regen debuff, an immediate loss of all stamina and inability to regain stamina for a time? Something to make people think "Maybe I SHOULDN'T just keep using the same cheap tactic over and over without thought."

Zebalot
03-19-2017, 12:09 PM
Interesting that there are so many pay to win players here defending gear score. We need a 4v4 with no gear stats, it will make the game more balanced. It doesn't matter if your 1v1 or 1v2 with a high gear score youll win constantly. So in the end we need 4v4 modes with no gear score.

Ausweisen
03-19-2017, 12:48 PM
Interesting that there are so many pay to win players here defending gear score. We need a 4v4 with no gear stats, it will make the game more balanced. It doesn't matter if your 1v1 or 1v2 with a high gear score youll win constantly. So in the end we need 4v4 modes with no gear score.

Did this Darwin failure just say pay to win? The game gives you gear for free, you get 4200 steel a week for next to no work not including the games you play and get steel. There is nothing you can't get that anyone who bought steel can. In fact, just because they bought steel doesnt mean they will automatically get 108 as soon as they hit prestige 3 because you still need the materials so save this pay to win business. The gear enhances stats, yes, but not to the degree you will lose. If they pop revenge in a 1v1, then that is bs, yes but that only happens if you're swinging like a moron with no plan. Gear doesnt stop counter guard break or parry or deflect. Defense adds about 30% more health while max attack adds 20% more damage. Sounds like a lot, but in actual numbers it's an increase of a few points of damage; if that alone is what is causing you to lose and not the revenge 1v1 pro, then the fault lies with you.

4v4 with no gear stats? No, what we NEED is finding a way to deal with asshats that like to zerg AND the asshat teammates that spam side heavies, hitting you and the PK spamming zone so you can't block. My own teammates piss me off more than any piece of gear does. Either 1) Piss off and go somewhere that actually needs you or 2) if you have to be a ******, at least do overheads.

Personally I like the 1vzerg if I am on my zerker/raider, but of course when you're leveling its a pain in the ***. I am no expert at programming, in fact, I know barely anything on the subject. However, would it not be easy to add within the script a mod(wrong term I know but you get my meaning) that matches people based on say, prestige rank or gear score? That will do nothing to sift out who has skill and who doesnt but at the very you're on the same playing field.

Ragnar---
03-19-2017, 02:56 PM
Glad to see the yes vote getting more and more traction.

bramboforce
03-19-2017, 03:06 PM
That would kinda made gear pointless. It doesnt need to be removed it just needs better balance in sorting players.

Ragnar---
03-19-2017, 03:15 PM
That would kinda made gear pointless. It doesnt need to be removed it just needs better balance in sorting players.

Why would it make gear pointless when the mode would be optional?.

RatedChaotic
03-19-2017, 03:27 PM
There should be a 4v4 mode with gear stats off. There are many players that prefer a straight up fight and who will enjoy a 4v4 mode with stats off. While you no votes can still enjoy your crutch. I'd play both modes.

EothK
03-19-2017, 04:08 PM
Definately YES. If only to put all this gear discussion to rest.....

Felis_Menari
03-19-2017, 09:22 PM
There should be a 4v4 mode with gear stats off. There are many players that prefer a straight up fight and who will enjoy a 4v4 mode with stats off. While you no votes can still enjoy your crutch. I'd play both modes.

The devs have already stated that the intended balance is for gear to *not* provide the major power advantage that it does right now. The thing is, that major power advantage stems almost entirely from the crazy revenge boosts that max revenge gear gives you. Once that gets properly adjusted, fearless 4v4 should no longer be necessary to satisfy everyone.

Ragnar---
03-19-2017, 11:35 PM
The devs have already stated that the intended balance is for gear to *not* provide the major power advantage that it does right now. The thing is, that major power advantage stems almost entirely from the crazy revenge boosts that max revenge gear gives you. Once that gets properly adjusted, fearless 4v4 should no longer be necessary to satisfy everyone.

Honestly even then it's not good enough. Why on earth didn't they add a 4v4 mode that uses the same rules as 1v1 and 2v2. It just seems logical to me, although maybe it's because nobody would buy their overpriced Steel then?.

AzureSky.
03-20-2017, 01:19 AM
Yes. gear should be only cosmetic.

cha_cha_cha-2.0
03-20-2017, 01:46 AM
Honestly even then it's not good enough. Why on earth didn't they add a 4v4 mode that uses the same rules as 1v1 and 2v2. It just seems logical to me, although maybe it's because nobody would buy their overpriced Steel then?.

Got it!

Ex__Machina
03-20-2017, 01:59 AM
do i want it? yes

is it viable? w/ this player population? no

and not trying to brag, but possibly illustrate how big an issue this can be, i've done this close to (if not at least) a dozen times w/ my warlord. and i'm actually **** at this game. i get on to do my 2 dailies, which rarely takes 30 minutes. and even w/ this little amount of play i 1v4 people and win at times. it should at least be somethign only a skilled player can do imo (if at all)

Felis_Menari
03-20-2017, 01:59 AM
Honestly even then it's not good enough. Why on earth didn't they add a 4v4 mode that uses the same rules as 1v1 and 2v2. It just seems logical to me, although maybe it's because nobody would buy their overpriced Steel then?.

Hmmm...it could be interesting, no gear 4v4s. But, such a scenario does concern me in regards to 3/4v1s. If they become nigh unwinnable due to the lack of revenge boosts, then the revenge mechanic itself will have to be buffed to compensate. And there's also the issue of splitting the player base, but we can't really say how these things will play out unless we actually try it. And naturally, if we get no gear 4v4, geared 1v1 and 2v2 must be added as well.

Bob__Gnarly
03-20-2017, 02:08 AM
I voted no, because I don't think the game has a population big enough to support all these different modes. Keep splitting up the community and it'll just get even harder to find games. It's tough enough as it is.

Schweinwinder31
03-20-2017, 02:25 AM
yes. and the way i would like them to do it is by making gear cosmetic only. away with that crap. nobody should deal more damage, take more damage get revenge quicker or be more unstoppable with revenge because they have played the game longer. level the playing field ubi! i want balance.

Ragnar---
03-21-2017, 12:39 PM
I voted no, because I don't think the game has a population big enough to support all these different modes. Keep splitting up the community and it'll just get even harder to find games. It's tough enough as it is.

That's because the game is dying. I left because I refuse to fight against stupid revenge builds. I have zero intention of ever coming back unless this type of mode is made, it's not like I'm missing out on much from For Honor considering the connection errors still aren't fixed and other ridiculous bugs.

DrinkinMehStella
03-21-2017, 01:38 PM
I would like to see them add a new hardcore game mode with limited hud and no gear score. Elimination should be no gear score because effectively its a brawl time game mode maybe give everyone the same revenge mode score for when getting ********ed

Ragnar---
04-05-2017, 11:13 AM
bump

Ragnar---
04-06-2017, 11:24 PM
I still want this mode. Hope they add it.