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Masked_Yurei
02-16-2017, 04:31 AM
Well, this is a revival of my post of the same name which I made during the Closed Alpha many months ago, which outlined how terrible the game was. And funny enough, nothing has improved. I have heard the beta was better, did not get into it since I got sick of asking strangers for keys; great system by the way; but having played the closed alpha extensively I can verify this is literally the same product.

This game is terrible. I tried the story campaign, the complete lack of exposition gave me no reason to play. What destroyed my interest in it was discovering that this game does not use checkpoints, which have been rudimentary for many years. So if you die at any point during a story mission, you have to replay the entire thing.



On to the bigger problems.


Guardbreaks : Overpowered, unfair, turns environmental damage into the win machine. How about the developers actually lengthen the window for countering them so players actually have a chance at it. Because currently, the guardbreak sequence is basically instant and the window for countering it is about as long; so it is borderline impossible to counter it purposely. If both players do it at the same time, it is also an arbitrary gamble as the game will just give the guardbreak to one player randomly. Instead of there being a special animation for both players getting locked into a grapple hold against eachother, or even just both getting pushed back. Something.

Attack Spam : There is no punishment. Players can shut their opponents down by mashing the triggers over, and over, and it takes forever for their stamina to deplete. With faster classes, this is even more unstoppable. Stamina consumption needs to scale with consecutive attacks, to stop players from spamming as currently they can; and there is no way to stop it unless you have specifically good reflexes.

Dodging Abuse : The dodge mechanic is trash. Assassin classes can backpeddle constantly to avoid damage and rush in for sudden and extremely difficult to counter attacks, giving them a complete advantage over every other class. Even worse, any class can sidestep an attack and instantly strike their opponent. Any class, just sidestep and attack; it requires no effort. The player avoids damage and can hit their opponent because the game will not allow their opponent to block in time. I even encountered computer players in the story mode that spammed this. Sidestep attacks need to be slower, and classes with long range backsteps need to have their distance significantly reduced.

Ability Spam : Every class can be overpowered if they spam their special abilities. The Raider's rush, the Raider's mega swing, the Shugoki's grab, the Nobushi's backstep lunge, the Orochi's everything, so on. There needs to be a silent cooldown on unique class attacks, because currently any class in the game can destroy everything if their user mercilessly spams their abilities. Any class, in any situation. Some abilities need to be nerfed anyways, like the Raider's grapple and Sugoki's grapple; they need to have a physical counter or telegraph when used outside of running. Just like how the Raider's mega swing needs to be less of a free win.

Running Abuse : Currently, players can run forever; and often heavy attacks will not catch them. There are players, who will run away forever when they get to low health because they are scared of dying. And assassin classes specifically have a running speed boost. This should not be possible, running after having recently been in combat should consume large amounts of stamina. And assassin classes need to have their running speed reduced to not be so blatantly better then every other class. Furthermore, running for significant periods should also cause stamina to begin to deplete. Players should not be able to escape combat so easily, but this game restricts nothing so everything is unbalanced.

Revenge Abuse : Revenge should not be able to be activated in one versus one combat. Should not. If a player gains revenge energy and then enters one versus one, the energy should be reduced. It is so unfair and obnoxious that some players randomly get to turn on their super power mode in a single player fight. It should also be noted that a way to counter players that backpeddle when their opponent revenges, should be added. Because some gankers will back away when you revenge, which completely defeats its purpose. And there is currently no way to stop them, what is the point in revenge existing if your opponents can just opt out of fighting you when you activate it.

Hyper Armor : No. Just no. I can understand hyper armor being attached to extremely slow, obviously telegraphed attacks. But characters like the Warlord should not get hyper armor on every heavy attack. It is a completely unfair advantage that makes it immensely difficult to combat them, because their heavy attacks are the same as any other class yet they cannot be interrupted. No.

Ganking : Problem in every game, developers never bother to fix it; same goes for camping. Revenge is a step in the right directly, but not much. How about you at least nerf the points players and their teams receive when they gank. Because currently, gank teams always win; because the game caters to it. If you at least make gank kills less valuable, it will help balance the worth of honorable kills and make ganks at least less effective in winning matches.

Chain Spam : The ability for a class to chain attacks needs to be rebalanced. Certain classes like the Nobushi, Warlord and assassins can chain attacks rapidly at higher speeds then any other class. Which gives them a major advantage because in this game; attack speed trumps everything else. Slow it down, it makes sense for chains to be faster; but they should not be so fast that it requires super reflexes to counter them.


Neither the developers nor the community listened to my original post, which was made many months before the game was released. And look what happened, the game is just as unplayable as it was before. Great.

Blauh blaugh triggered, blaugh blaugh get good, blaugh blaugh salt, blaugh blaugh troll. Yes I am aware of all the meme baby words for trying to discredit negativity. I am aware that players are imbeciles, and often do not mind unfair deaths and mechanics. But I happen to. So unless you have something constructive to say, believe me when I say I will not acknowledge anything else.

And no, just because there is a single obscure counter to something, does not mean it is fair. Just because doing one single thing will counter a problem I point out, that is not fair; everything needs a reasonable and general way to stop it. Again, more imbeciles. And again no, adapting to stop meta is also absurd; players should be able to play the game the way they want; they should not have to limit their options just to solve problems the developers should have fixed.

Ryumanjisen
02-16-2017, 04:48 AM
Jesus mother of... most of your points are blatantly wrong. Countering guard break is really simple, for example. In fact, the main problem of the game is the heavy emphasis on defense: a good player can defend practically most of the time if he wants to. Light attacks can be easily blocked, even parried if you are fast enough, you can catch dodges with a well time guard break... and so on.

ThePollie
02-16-2017, 05:05 AM
1) Tech it.
2) Parry and punish. Or just keep blocking and get aggressive when they're exhausted.
3) Feint to bait dodges, punish. Be more careful.
4) Dodge them.
5) You're doing it wrong.
6) Eh... Honestly, I don't like this. In a game about reading the situations and reacting accordingly, it feels weird for some people to just power through and get free hits.
7) If they're ganking you, they aren't occupying the map. Turtle up, stall for time. Your team will arrive once they've taken the map and realize what's happening.

Black_Star300
02-16-2017, 05:08 AM
Dodging is ridiculous as a Conqueror. Literally assassins just run around like gay a** fairies and side step me all day and light attack me to nothing. Which already it seems my health pool is smaller than in beta. Sidestepping should take a good majority of stamina

ThePollie
02-16-2017, 05:17 AM
Play defensively. You're a tank against a speedster, act like it. Don't try to out-pace them or they'll just bulldoze you. Be a wall, chew wood until you get an opening. They're squishy, you'll only need a few.

Masked_Yurei
02-16-2017, 05:25 AM
Save the third, the other posts above are exactly what I told people not to post. Just because there is an elitist manbaby counter to meta; does not mean that meta is fair. While other points are just saying there are counters which are false. I can counter dodges with guardbreaks, really, because dodges are instant; which is why they are so effective. How exactly do I counter something that has already happened by the time I am seeing it. Rhetorical question; I do not care for arguing over whether an obvious problem is really a problem.


Dodging is ridiculous as a Conqueror. Literally assassins just run around like gay a** fairies and side step me all day and light attack me to nothing. Which already it seems my health pool is smaller than in beta. Sidestepping should take a good majority of stamina

Happens to any class, unfortunately the Conqueror is not the only one susceptible. The post above is absurd however, dodging cannot be stopped and is instant; no amount of defensive play can stop attacks and backpeddles that cannot be countered. I do not understand why the person above is lying; perhaps they are speaking theoretically without actually having experienced the situation. Either way. Wrong.

ThePollie
02-16-2017, 05:34 AM
I never said they're fair. Just saying, "Nah, you're ****ed. Game's broke, mate" doesn't help you a bit. You're in for a rough time against good assassins, speed has always been god-like in fighting games. But I've won plenty of fights, so I know it's not entirely hopeless.

Ryumanjisen
02-16-2017, 05:36 AM
Save the third, the other posts above are exactly what I told people not to post. Just because there is an elitist manbaby counter to meta; does not mean that meta is fair. While other points are just saying there are counters which are false. I can counter dodges with guardbreaks, really, because dodges are instant; which is why they are so effective. How exactly do I counter something that has already happened by the time I am seeing it. Rhetorical question; I do not care for arguing over whether an obvious problem is really a problem.


You indeed can counter dodges with guard break, but I'm curious about that statement. If you don't care about arguing... why posting in a FORUM?

IIII 47 IIII
02-16-2017, 05:36 AM
Everyone ignored your post because it was terrible then and its terrible now. Its already been pointed out, line by line, how incorrect you are. Im not going to pretend to know what games you play, but its clear you aren't very good at this one, so you demand the game change to cater to your skill, or lack there of. The good news is, you've identified what parts of the game you suck at, granted its a LOT, but you can start to work on getting better at the things you are weak at. The first step to fixing a problem is admitting you have one. You're halfway there.

Masked_Yurei
02-16-2017, 05:39 AM
I never said they're fair. Just saying, "Nah, you're ****ed. Game's broke, mate" doesn't help you a bit. You're in for a rough time against good assassins, speed has always been god-like in fighting games. But I've won plenty of fights, so I know it's not entirely hopeless.

It appears you do indeed not understand what we are talking about.

In the character moves menu, there are sidestep attacks. They are indicated by dodging to the side and then hitting light attack. Using these attacks as an opponent attacks you, allows you to avoid their attack and instantly hit them. The game will physically not allow players to block in time. Any class with this ability can do this, and many if not all of them do. Sidesteps require no effort to activate, and always win. Horizontal attacks do not hit them either. And, in terms of the general speed of assassins; once more expecting players to all be hyper aware elitist clap traps is absurd. The game should reward skill and capabilities, it should not be mandatory to survive against specific classes.


You do genuinely not understand this apparently. But then again neither did the other person(s) commenting.

Ryumanjisen
02-16-2017, 05:43 AM
It appears you do indeed not understand what we are talking about.

In the character moves menu, there are sidestep attacks. They are indicated by dodging to the side and then hitting light attack. Using these attacks as an opponent attacks you, allows you to avoid their attack and instantly hit them. The game will physically not allow players to block in time. Any class with this ability can do this, and many if not all of them do. Sidesteps require no effort to activate, and always win. Horizontal attacks do not hit them either. And, in terms of the general speed of assassins; once more expecting players to all be hyper aware elitist clap traps is absurd. The game should reward skill and capabilities, it should not be mandatory to survive against specific classes.

You do genuinely not understand this apparently. But then again neither did the other person(s) commenting.

And again, you're wrong. You can perfectly block the sidestep attacks, you can even parry them without too many problems.

Masked_Yurei
02-16-2017, 05:45 AM
Everyone ignored your post because it was terrible then and its terrible now. Its already been pointed out, line by line, how incorrect you are. Im not going to pretend to know what games you play, but its clear you aren't very good at this one, so you demand the game change to cater to your skill, or lack there of. The good news is, you've identified what parts of the game you suck at, granted its a LOT, but you can start to work on getting better at the things you are weak at. The first step to fixing a problem is admitting you have one. You're halfway there.

Indeed you condescending primate. Frequently being the MVP if not runner up in the game, I am indeed an amateur because I am intelligent enough to criticize aspects of the game that are unfair. And because I am not a primate that just goes along with everything, you interpret my criticism as a sign of a lack of capability. How, very, ignorant.

ThePollie
02-16-2017, 05:46 AM
Yeah, no. I understand that completely. And I've countered it numerously.

If you swing willy-nilly and let them dodge and attack it, well... Adjust your tactics. Use attacks that have wider angles. Warden's left-feint into zone attack is good for catching dodge-spamming.

Masked_Yurei
02-16-2017, 05:47 AM
And again, you're wrong. You can perfectly block the sidestep attacks, you can even parry them without too many problems.

We must be playing a different game. As sidestep attacks are unblockable in the one I, and the other poster, are playing. The game physically does not allow players who have recently just attacked to block a sidestep attack; which is when they are most often used. I assume you are referring to situations in which a sidestep attack is used as a basic attack, instead of in reply to an opponents attack. You are wrong here, then.

ThePollie
02-16-2017, 05:55 AM
Yeah. He's not going to be convinced, and at this point has resorted to insult-slinging.

So, I'm out. Try a cup of tea, relax.

Ryumanjisen
02-16-2017, 06:00 AM
We must be playing a different game. As sidestep attacks are unblockable in the one I, and the other poster, are playing. The game physically does not allow players who have recently just attacked to block a sidestep attack; which is when they are most often used. I assume you are referring to situations in which a sidestep attack is used as a basic attack, instead of in reply to an opponents attack. You are wrong here, then.

Oh my... of course you can't block a sidestep attack IF you are attacking, otherwise it would be useless!! You have to bait them, wait until the atacck and then react.

Seriously, just... unbeliavable.

Charlouf_
02-16-2017, 06:04 AM
I am intelligent enough to criticize aspects of the game that are unfair.

Nope, its just because u dont know them, and like many people, its not "you" its the game.
exemple line 1 :


Guardbreaks : Overpowered, unfair ....... Because currently, the guardbreak sequence is basically instant and the window for countering it is about as long

When u see the guardbreak coming, you just have about 0.5 to react, maybe you want a 2sec window to counter a 1sec animation ?
there is a sound, and a light to notice WHERE is the "window"
train it and stop complain.

And its the same for all of your point, so.... nope, maybe your smart, but not in this game, and not here.

The real point here, you are bad at counter guardbreak, thats all, maybe game need tools to reduce guardbreak efficiency and stuff, but you dont, you are just bad for counter it
#better tell its the game fault

Versuviou5
02-16-2017, 06:06 AM
It appears you do indeed not understand what we are talking about.

In the character moves menu, there are sidestep attacks. They are indicated by dodging to the side and then hitting light attack. Using these attacks as an opponent attacks you, allows you to avoid their attack and instantly hit them. The game will physically not allow players to block in time. Any class with this ability can do this, and many if not all of them do. Sidesteps require no effort to activate, and always win. Horizontal attacks do not hit them either. And, in terms of the general speed of assassins; once more expecting players to all be hyper aware elitist clap traps is absurd. The game should reward skill and capabilities, it should not be mandatory to survive against specific classes.


You do genuinely not understand this apparently. But then again neither did the other person(s) commenting.

This amuses me.

At any point did you by any chance realize that this game is based on countering. Everything has a count. Don't like orochi's OP rushing you? Play a nobu. Don't like the lawbringer pushy pushy? Play an Shoki.

This is meaningless blather to everyone as it holds no weight, you argue the latter with a lack of knowledge and/or skill at how core mechanics seem to work, or maybe, just maybe... you are not skilled enough to use them in the first place.

Don't act like an intellectual when you are an invalid, it doesn't look good on you.

The Painkiller
02-16-2017, 06:37 AM
Well said Agent 47.

Delectable_Sin
02-16-2017, 06:56 AM
TS, you clearly suck. Seriously, almost everything you posted is completely false. GB counters dodgers super easily, dodging in the wrong direction gets you hit, so feinting counters dodging too, attack spamming is nearly impossible because of stamina, special abilities take massive amounts of stamina and can not be spammed, there is one class that can really chain attacks but can not chain them from different angles, etc, etc... You're basically factually wrong about everything.

Stop mindlessly spamming power attacks in dominion and then complaining when you get smoked like a noob. Go into practice vs ai, put the bot to level 1, then slowly learn and progress until you can beat the lvl 3 bot. Then, go and play 20 or so duels, so you actually know the game mechanics and the tendencies of better players.

You clearly have no idea how to play this game... but honestly, neither does the "defense is too strong!!" group. TS is the 33% win rate and angry about it crowd, and "defense is too strong!" guys are the 50% and disillusioned crowd.

FacePunchThor
02-16-2017, 07:15 AM
1) Tech it.
2) Parry and punish. Or just keep blocking and get aggressive when they're exhausted.
3) Feint to bait dodges, punish. Be more careful.
4) Dodge them.
5) You're doing it wrong.
6) Eh... Honestly, I don't like this. In a game about reading the situations and reacting accordingly, it feels weird for some people to just power through and get free hits.
7) If they're ganking you, they aren't occupying the map. Turtle up, stall for time. Your team will arrive once they've taken the map and realize what's happening.

^^^^ This. THIS! ****ing THIS! Every complaint I see on these forums boils down to one or two things
1. The poster lacks knowledge and skills related to the technical and strategic side of fighting
2. The poster seems to think 4v4 = 1v1 x 1v1 x 1v1 x 1v1. The 4v4 modes are replicating WAR there's no time in a battle to sit around and wait while two guys fight to see who wins. You fight to kill and win by any means necessary.


Also this is directed at all those who complain about guard breaks and environmental kills. Once your opponent has you in a guard break charge/tackle/whatever he can't control his direction so if you don't want to be tackled off a cliff don't stand with your back to the cliff. Positioning is fundamental in all forms of combat. Even video games.


Also also someone should tell all the dark souls veterans to come read these posts. They might have one or two words for you if you catch my drift...

KindMan2236
02-16-2017, 09:48 AM
This amuses me.

At any point did you by any chance realize that this game is based on countering. Everything has a count. Don't like orochi's OP rushing you? Play a nobu. Don't like the lawbringer pushy pushy? Play an Shoki.

This is meaningless blather to everyone as it holds no weight, you argue the latter with a lack of knowledge and/or skill at how core mechanics seem to work, or maybe, just maybe... you are not skilled enough to use them in the first place.

Don't act like an intellectual when you are an invalid, it doesn't look good on you.

Bro, you're not an intellectual yourself. What you said makes little to no sense, for instance the entire basis of your intial point is based on a non sequitur. There shouldn't be hard counters to hero's when choosing certain heroes because that would defeat the entire purpose of the game if you could have one side choosing the innate weakness of another hero and there is no way of knowing what the opposite team have picked when it comes to heroes, that only becomes apparent after your team has chosen their heroes.

If PK was the counter lawbringer hypothetically and one saide chose PK's and the other side entirely went lawbringer then obviously one side must lose because the players they're versing are their weakness, despite the fact that the side that chose lawbringers had no way of knowing that the other side would choose to play PK's.

Every hero should have skills and movesets to counter any form of hero they face. Infact I think that's the entire premise of the OP's thread, it's having the precise counters for any situation should it occur. I'll use a lawbringer and PK for my next example again, if I go to attack with a heavy strike against a PK as a lawbringer they can sidestep attack the only counter to force them to dodge is a feint, feints are slow, predictable and drain a hell of a lot of stamina but someone who is dodging can always dodge again and again with no real downside.

If someone sidesteps attack mid attack execution there is literally no way to counter other than to either feint to parry or feint to block but it comes an enormous risk to the player

One thing I can entirely agree on is GB, it's a trash mechanic everyone needs to face up to it because nothing is going to improve if everyone is too pretentious to take any sort of valid criticism of their precious game, you can miss a block or a parry or even a window for feinting but the outcome is only ever really going to be a hit or two and some sustained damage, but you can miss the window to a GB and if you do just once in some cases it's all over. Something so easy to execute shouldn't have that much damage potential.