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View Full Version : Shoguki OP?



ForBoo
02-15-2017, 01:16 AM
Large Health pool+ Self heals (even in duels) + 1 shot if he grabs you (when hes low health) + No stagger when hes hit...

Anyone else noticing this?

TBH_Saeko_Irri
02-15-2017, 01:20 AM
I must do the perfect performance to take him down even the smallest mistake and you dead

Black_Star300
02-15-2017, 01:23 AM
I just literally faced a duel against a Shugoki and his grab took my conqueror from full health to instant death. I also see that my heavies as a conqueror does NOTHING to a Shugoki. And he has plenty of uninterruptible attacks. I'm thinking of just hanging up sticking with my Knights in the Knight faction and just playing Shugoki. I mean they seem to not have a weakness...

TypicalZealot
02-15-2017, 01:23 AM
Large Health pool+ Self heals (even in duels) + 1 shot if he grabs you (when hes low health) + No stagger when hes hit...

Anyone else noticing this?

No. I'd assume most people who are good (no offense) don't notice this.

He has a high health pool if and only if his uninterruptible stance is active. It deactivates immediately upon it taking a hit. The 'no stagger' is his uninterruptible stance passive, and it only absorbs a single attack before deactivating.

Once deactivated, he takes bonus damage that reduces his health pool DRAMATICALLY. In addition, he is now capable of being staggered. This is why he gets literally shredded to pieces in seconds by classes like Orochi and Peacekeeper.

Furthermore, his self heal is reliant on the single most telegraphed move in the entire game. Just dodge it, and it punishes him severely by chunking his health. Also he has no attack chains that confirm into each other, and on top of that he only has two attack chains total.

All of this compounded on him being the slowest character in the entire game, and his range isn't that great either. Not to mention guard breaks are extremely powerful right now, so deactivating his uninterruptible stance is the easiest thing of all time, and following that you just guard break into a confirmed heavy because he's too slow to do anything else. He'll drop quick.

edit for clarity; I think the instakill at critical health should be removed from the game, any instakill in any game is stupid, but the hero is really far from overpowered if you just researched his kit and how he works for half a second.

Greengrunt
02-15-2017, 01:25 AM
you either need to use 2 very quick attacks, so that the 2nd one will interupt the shugoki, he only absorbs 1st attack. OR you just wait and parry his extremely slow attacks so he loses alot of stamina. also his unblockable heavies can still be parried. what u dont wanna do is trade blows with a shogoku cause he will come out on top, you need flurries of blows, dodging, or parrying.

TypicalZealot
02-15-2017, 01:27 AM
I just literally faced a duel against a Shugoki and his grab took my conqueror from full health to instant death. I also see that my heavies as a conqueror does NOTHING to a Shugoki. And he has plenty of uninterruptible attacks. I'm thinking of just hanging up sticking with my Knights in the Knight faction and just playing Shugoki. I mean they seem to not have a weakness...

I play conqueror, it's arguably my best hero followed by warlord.
Literally just spam lights after popping his uninterruptible stance, and he melts. Don't try and use heavies because he takes reduced damage while the stance is active. It sounds like you're trying to trade blows with him as a conqueror, which is idiotic, he'll always win.
Pop the stance with a light, then just use your good old fashioned light spam as a conq to gib him, he doesn't really stand a chance.

It's really easy.

Black_Star300
02-15-2017, 01:29 AM
I play conqueror, it's arguably my best hero followed by warlord.
Literally just spam lights after popping his uninterruptible stance, and he melts. Don't try and use heavies because he takes reduced damage while the stance is active.
Pop the stance with a light, then just use your good old fashioned light spam as a conq to gib him.

It's really easy.

Yea, but why not play Shugoki and take damage and just 1HKO EVERYONE? I mean why try?

TypicalZealot
02-15-2017, 01:32 AM
Yea, but why not play Shugoki and take damage and just 1HKO EVERYONE? I mean why try?

Because the shugoki can't 1hko except in really specific dangerous circumstances? Stop pretending like he's just running around 1 shotting things. The shugoki can only 1hko if the shugoki is in 1hko range himself (critical hp, 1 attack away from death), and it requires him landing the slowest and most heavily telegraphed move in the entire game.
In spite of that, I still think the 1hko should be removed.

Also because the conqueror has really solid mixup potential, light spam, has amazing defensive options and throws in addition i like the conqueror block all angles passive, and the conqueror has some really good confirmed hit combos. The shugoki literally has 2 chains, neither of them can confirm and both of the chains are only like 2 attacks long. His only good thing is his really telegraphed grab which is too easy to avoid.

the shugoki literally has way less hp than the conqueror when you account for the removal of the uninterruptible stance.

Black_Star300
02-15-2017, 01:35 AM
Because the shugoki can't 1hko except in really specific dangerous circumstances? Stop pretending like he's just running around 1 shotting things. The shugoki can only 1hko if the shugoki is in 1hko range himself (critical hp, 1 attack away from death), and it requires him landing the slowest and most heavily telegraphed move in the entire game.
In spite of that, I still think the 1hko should be removed.

Also because the conqueror has really solid mixup potential, light spam, has amazing defensive options and throws in addition i like the conqueror block all angles passive, and the conqueror has some really good confirmed hit combos. The shugoki literally has 2 chains, neither of them can confirm and both of the chains are only like 2 attacks long. His only good thing is his really telegraphed grab which is too easy to avoid.

the shugoki literally has way less hp than the conqueror when you account for the removal of the uninterruptible stance.

Says Shugoki can't 1HKO then proceeds to say he can....Yea I know he has to be NEAR DEATH, but why not just take the *** whooping and LAND ONE ****ING move. Like people complain about the revenge mode being the tipping scales. How can he at near death have the strength to crush my whole ****ing body and bones WITH ARMOR? Is he Superman?

TypicalZealot
02-15-2017, 01:36 AM
Says Shugoki can't 1HKO then proceeds to say he can....Yea I know he has to be NEAR DEATH, but why not just take the *** whooping and LAND ONE ****ING move. Like people complain about the revenge mode being the tipping scales. How can he at near death have the strength to crush my whole ****ing body and bones WITH ARMOR? Is he Superman?

i mean.. we get it.. youre really bad... idk what to tell you..
this conversation is going nowhere

I laid out his entire kit for you and told you how to easily beat him, and so did some other guy in the thread.
Just take that advice to heart and good luck.

Kroma-
02-15-2017, 01:40 AM
In duel Shugoki seems pretty balanced, he is slow but he can punish you hard. The main problem is in multiplayer where he can just grab someone while everyone else can free heavy on it and it get chunk half life by shugoki in top of that making it a OS move in a lot of situation.
I dont think they should nerf the dmg, but they should prevent other player to being able to heavy hit on someone grabbed by the shugoki or it should interupt the shugoki moove, so you hit with the heavy but the shugoki damage dont go off.

Derity
02-15-2017, 01:43 AM
Tip: Guardbreak ruins his uninterruptible state, even if he counters it.

Greengrunt
02-15-2017, 01:45 AM
yeah and dont run out of stamina and fall down vs a shugoki cuz his punish will deal 2.5 bars of dmg

WTWR_Zydrate
02-15-2017, 01:47 AM
I must do the perfect performance to take him down even the smallest mistake and you dead

Basically this. As a Warden his ability to not flinch against my heavy attacks does not do me any favors. My flinching enemies usually helps me get that second heavy hit in, generally.

TypicalZealot
02-15-2017, 01:51 AM
Basically this. As a Warden his ability to not flinch against my heavy attacks does not do me any favors. My flinching enemies usually helps me get that second heavy hit in, generally.

Warden literally has a light chain that instantly does another attack, which is guaranteed to stagger him after breaking the uninterruptible stance.
You've got to be kidding me with this.

I'm gonna repeat the same things other people have been saying including myself. Stop trying to trade blows with heavies, you're not going to win, his character is DESIGNED around surviving that. You need to attack as quick as possible and with as many attacks as possible, he takes BONUS DAMAGE once you break his uninterruptible stance passive.

AND WARDEN LITERALLY HAS A CONFIRMED CHAIN THAT STRIKES TWICE WITH LIGHTS