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View Full Version : Faction War rounds are entirely decided in the last 2 turns



BearB0NES
02-13-2017, 04:52 AM
Currently winning a round in a season is done by having the most territories at the end of the round. Each round is a 2 week duration. The major problem here come from how volatile the turns are. Clearly shown by this open beta the entire Faction War was decided in the last 2 turns. 2 Turns is enough to go from last place all the way to first place in territory count.

This is a major issue because a faction can do nothing for 46 turns and in the last 2 turns win the round. What this means is all your work in the beginning and middle of the round means nothing. All that matters is your faction shows up to play in the last 14 hours of a round.

From here it gets worse. As seen in the open beta there was clearly times of the day or night where certain factions clearly had the most players online and dominated the board. At night Samurais were out in full force, but of course weebs are nocturnal and sleep during the day. The Tin Cans clearly have a lot of players playing in the early morning and afternoon.

Thus, who wins the round will be directly decided by which faction has the largest player-base in the final 14 hours of a round.

There is also an RNG element as well. You can place your war assets where ever you would like on the board, however you get a 20% front bonus for placing it where you just played. Dominion and Deathmatch are clearly the most played game modes and offer the most assets per game. Every turn 1 faction will always get Dominion and Deathmatch as its fronts. The other 2 factions will always Dominion and 1v1/2v2 or Deathmatch and 1v1/2v2 as their fronts. These 2 factions will always have a Dominion or Deathmatch that they will not receive front bonuses from.

If an entire round basically gets decided in the last 2 turns. Then the RNG of game mode placement will be a factor in who has the best chance of winning the round. This is because 2 factions will always have a decent portion of their player base playing a game mode where they are receiving 20% less assets then the faction with Dominion/Deathmatch as its fronts.


TL : DR

Why should entire rounds only be decided in the last turn or last 2 turns? Its like the first 46 turns of a round are pre-season and the round really only lasts 7-14 hours,

tcs1991.ts
02-13-2017, 04:55 AM
No one has any clue until we see a full season.

BearB0NES
02-13-2017, 04:57 AM
This post has nothing to do with Seasons. It only focuses on how rounds are decided.

HavocSix
02-13-2017, 05:06 AM
This man speaks the truth.

But on the other hand, congratulations Knights. Enjoy your ugly af, gaudy emblem outline! 😅

Btw, it's pretty stupid that the Vikings don't get anything unique for winning the Closed Beta. As a matter of fact, didn't the Vikings win the Alpha as well?🤔

BearB0NES
02-13-2017, 05:30 AM
Giving the winners of the Open beta an exclusive award is only more proof that the entire first 98% of rounds wont matter. Only what happens in the last 2 rounds.

zesilo
02-13-2017, 05:36 AM
You do realize that is not how the territory map works? If you "do nothing" for 12 days then try to come back the last 2 rounds your opponents will be at your fort and you will have 0 territories. The only reason all 3 factions were so close and knights were able to go from last to first is because all 3 factions were competing and deploying assets at a similar level. Each faction was close, just at the start vikings and samurai took the knight's territories first, the last 24 hours or so (3 rounds) the vikings took more samurai territory and lost viking territory to the knights. That is how the knights won, not by "doing nothing then taking a bunch of territories at the last second".

If you do not understand how the territory system works, do not post about it. First, make a post asking how each side takes territories, and what happens if 1 factions makes it to another's fort.

(for those who don't know, your fort is the statue on the map. if you continue to lose territories, the "game modes" move closer to your statue with the border as you lose territory, mean it is possible to reach 1 territory making it basically impossible to win within the last 2 rounds if your faction did nothing all season)

Yvendel
02-13-2017, 05:39 AM
The system is pretty ****ty then, horrible at the most, and I'm not saying that because samurai had most of the map, it's just that

This is a major issue because a faction can do nothing for 46 turns and in the last 2 turns win the round.

Yvendel
02-13-2017, 05:44 AM
We really need info about the system to have some light on the matter, thou this is a beta, I don't understand why people has gone mad about something like that

zesilo
02-13-2017, 05:45 AM
If you read my post you would understand how it works.

Yvendel
02-13-2017, 05:54 AM
If this is what happened its pretty easy to understand. Is there any stats about all the rounds somewhere?

BearB0NES
02-13-2017, 06:00 AM
You do realize that is not how the territory map works? If you "do nothing" for 12 days then try to come back the last 2 rounds your opponents will be at your fort and you will have 0 territories. The only reason all 3 factions were so close and knights were able to go from last to first is because all 3 factions were competing and deploying assets at a similar level. Each faction was close, just at the start vikings and samurai took the knight's territories first, the last 24 hours or so (3 rounds) the vikings took more samurai territory and lost viking territory to the knights. That is how the knights won, not by "doing nothing then taking a bunch of territories at the last second".

If you do not understand how the territory system works, do not post about it. First, make a post asking how each side takes territories, and what happens if 1 factions makes it to another's fort.

(for those who don't know, your fort is the statue on the map. if you continue to lose territories, the "game modes" move closer to your statue with the border as you lose territory, mean it is possible to reach 1 territory making it basically impossible to win within the last 2 rounds if your faction did nothing all season)

You are taking what I said to literally. When I say "do Nothing" It doesn't mean literately the entire faction stops playing for 12 days. The game has an auto balancing system and the 3 factions territory counts will always be marginal. I am saying a faction can clearly be the worst faction for 46 turns and be in last place on the territory count. If this faction wins all their attacks 2 turns in a row they will have the most amount of territories. This is very possible because the game gives loosing factions an advantage.

Thus, rounds being based on territory counts is an extremely volatile system.

zesilo
02-13-2017, 06:04 AM
Ok? You could be losing a marathon in 3rd place for 25 miles then get first place the last 0.01 mile? I don't understand your logic? This can happen in any system. You know what counters that? Instead of attack territories the last 2 rounds, vikings and samurai should use all their assets to DEFEND instead. Then the zerg does nothing and knights still gain almost nothing.

BearB0NES
02-13-2017, 06:13 AM
You are never 25 miles behind though. There will never be a miraculous come back in Faction Wars. Its like 3 people are racing a marathon except first place can only ever be 10 yards ahead of 3rd place. Also Who ever is in third place gets a speed boost in the last moments of the race. That is the current For Honor Faction war system.

Damonrodes
02-13-2017, 06:13 AM
Why are people so worried about this faction war? It has absolutely nothing to do with the game. You don't even have to place your deployment, it will do it for you if you forget. It is nothing more than an ever changing map. The game is about pvp, this side map is like the itch on your *** in the middle if the day. It's there, bUT if you don't let it bother you it doesn't really matter. Ubi has got you all caught up in exactly what I wants. It wants to add this extra dimensions to the game, in actuallity it doesn't even matter.

BearB0NES
02-13-2017, 06:19 AM
Why are people so worried about this faction war? It has absolutely nothing to do with the game. You don't even have to place your deployment, it will do it for you if you forget. It is nothing more than an ever changing map. The game is about pvp, this side map is like the itch on your *** in the middle if the day. It's there, bUT if you don't let it bother you it doesn't really matter. Ubi has got you all caught up in exactly what I wants. It wants to add this extra dimensions to the game, in actuallity it doesn't even matter.

Because if you are going to go through all the efforts to make this over arching mechanic that makes every pvp game you have meaning it should be balanced. It is perfectly understandable if you don't give to craps about the faction war. You have to be mindful of everyone in the community though. There are people that think the Faction War is a really cool mechanic in the game, and would like it to be epic. Not something you do just for loot at the end of a round or season.

GNASHSAMA
02-13-2017, 06:30 AM
This man speaks the truth.

But on the other hand, congratulations Knights. Enjoy your ugly af, gaudy emblem outline! 😅

Btw, it's pretty stupid that the Vikings don't get anything unique for winning the Closed Beta. As a matter of fact, didn't the Vikings win the Alpha as well?🤔

I will enjoy my emblem. An emblem that you fought so hard for and only belittle and hate because you don't have it -- because in the end, you lost and we of the Knights of the Iron Legion reign victorious.

As for the Faction War mechanics.

The greater your contribution, the greater your end-season rewards. You can't just play for the last 14 hours. I mean, you can to 'win the faction war'. But it will mean little if you made no contributions towards the war in terms of war assets.

Biocoast
02-13-2017, 06:34 AM
I agree with you on some levels, the system is flawed... The map updates to frequently... I guess different factions are far more popular in different regions of the world, samurai usually get a huge push when EU is still sleeping... guess lots of people in Asia region (that time zone, maybe western US) play that more, while they sleep Knights in return get to push heavily back in the opposite direction.

Knights were always ahead by the end of the night EU time, and loosing heavily with just a few territories in the morning. For Knights it was always a far greater struggle, since they only ended up slightly ahead in the lead, while Samurais/Vikings never lost to much ground.

What I am thinking is, the system should not update the territories as often because of the world wide faction popularity, that way the faction war might seem a bit more even. Not sure if this would truly solve the issue, but it would make this problem OP described not seem as drastic since territories would likely hardly change in that period at all. On the other hand, this would also be awful since then the map would seem even more static and uninspiring as it is already to fight for your cause.

BearB0NES
02-13-2017, 06:37 AM
It is important to note that this post has nothing to do with Seasons or how much you contribute. It is purely about how rounds are actually just a crap shoot.

Sure if you pay your dues and put the time in you will be rewarded accordingly at the end of a season. However all assets you accumulated during the first 46 turns of a round doesn't help your faction in any way. that is the issue I am trying to point out.

Damonrodes
02-13-2017, 06:47 AM
Because if you are going to go through all the efforts to make this over arching mechanic that makes every pvp game you have meaning it should be balanced. It is perfectly understandable if you don't give to craps about the faction war. You have to be mindful of everyone in the community though. There are people that think the Faction War is a really cool mechanic in the game, and would like it to be epic. Not something you do just for loot at the end of a round or season.

How is this mechanic of the game meaningful? Win or lose you place war assets, even if you don't want to place them it does for you. What exactly is cool about it? There is a map that changes no matter if people place or not. I don't see how a map in the background is even a feature. When 300k people are playing ( random made up # by me lol) it's all about which faction has more free time. Maybe I'm seeing things differently than you.

BearB0NES
02-13-2017, 11:32 PM
Whether you like the faction war or not is irrelivent to my point of this post. It doesnt change the fact that the entire round.. 2 weeks of play. Is completely decided in the last 14 hours of play.

Bvisi0n.webm
02-14-2017, 12:24 AM
Honestly...
Me and possibly many others who understand how the whole thing works think that OP is right and because of this don't care until the last 2 turns.
We play matches but don't deploy, the system will deploy for us evenly distributed among all options without a bonus.
This result on us being on the losing end but we will bounce back once our border shrinks enough so we don't have to deploy in so many slots as to compared to the other 2 factions with their now huge borders.
Once the last 2 turns come around we start paying attention and start deploying our assets in key positions.

OP is right in the fact that only the last 2 turns truly count and for the rest of the turns you can just ignore the war and have it auto distribute for you.
Whats the point of pushing another faction to it's fort if they now only have to cover 3 or so slots while you now have to defend 10 or so against the third faction and an additional 3 against the small guy? There is no way you can manage that. So there is no point in paying attention until the last 2 turns, make that 3 or 4 depending on how hard you are being pushed back.

This is what OP is trying to say incase you still don't understand and I fully agree.
In both beta's I didn't bother deploying until the last round because the pattern was: Less territory = easier to push back. More territory = harder to hold on to it.

I'm not saying this is horrible but it is kind of a problem? I don't really know what to think about it...
Just seems pointless...

Thinking about it we could change it...
Rounds consist of 10 or so turns and each round will give the amount of controlled slots as points to the factions until the end of the season. At which point the faction with most points wins?

I don't know... For now the whole thing seems pointless until the last 2 turns of a round.

Edit: and yes I know this would kinda screw up the reward per round thing if that is a thing. (I don't know lol)

Bvisi0n.webm
02-14-2017, 12:49 AM
What we need an official source on or at least I do is how contribution is measured for the rewards.
What's the difference between the guy who only plays 2 hours a day and actively deploys his assets and the guy who plays 8 hours a day but rarely deploys his assets?
What's the difference between the 2 if they play the same amount of hours?
We need official source info on that before we can continue this discussion properly.

So far the rewards are the only thing giving this war meaning.

BearB0NES
02-14-2017, 03:30 AM
The issue here isn't rewards. I am sure Ubisoft is going to do a great job rewarding players accordingly for their contributions of assets drops.


I am trying to point out the fact that 13 days out of the 14 days of a round the war assets you accumulate have no meaning other then for collecting rewards.

For example:
It is February 14, For Honor just released, and Samurai Jack goes absolute ham. In every sense that the term ham can be applied in this scenario. I'm talking straight no life 12-14 hours a day for 13 days straight. micro managing every war asset jack gets making sure to accumulate every 20% he can get. For simplicity lets say Samurai Jack collected 1 million assets which is definitely reasonable in 13 days.

Now it is the final day of the round and we are going into the final 3 turn stretch. Unfortunately for our friend jack here, he has real life obligations on this day and Is unable to play any For Honor that day. So he contributes 0 war assets on the 14th day of the round.


Now here is Pete. Pete is a viking of course; like his father and his father's father. Being a viking has been a tradition in Pete's family for generations, and Pete doesn't plan to let his viking brethren down on this day. Going into the 14th day of the round Pete here has been a filthy casual and placed a dismal 60k war assets, but it turns out today Viking Pete has the day off, and he is going to enjoy it chopping heads off for Odin.

On the final day of the round Pete manages to place 50k war assets.


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In this example we can see that Samurai Jack placed 1 million war assets over the course of the round. Viking Pete on the other hand placed 110k war assets.

The question I ask you is who here contributed more to helping their faction win? Keep in mind I am not talking about rewards in any way, shape, or form. Jack will be rewarded more for his contributions. That is not the point of all this..

The point is Pete did more to help his faction win by playing a lot on 1 day then Samurai Jack did playing almost non stop all the way to the end of the round.

In this example jack effectively contributed 0 war assets to helping his faction win while Pete here contributed 50k for the vikings.

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Is this the system that you want? Once you come to this realization, you realize that war assets is nothing more then a chore done so you get rewards at the end of a round/season. If you have any care for the faction war then the best thing you can do is show up to play on the last day of the round. If you cannot play that day ohh well maybe you can help your faction 2 weeks from now at the end of the next round.


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I don't have a solution to this problem. I do think a scoring system where every tile held a point value would be cool and fix the effective war assets issues, but would probably introduce new problems like snow balling. I personally think the Faction War is awesome! which is why I am trying to point out a major problem in it. So maybe one day in a future update it can be reworked.

zesilo
02-14-2017, 04:23 AM
This thread is full of ignorance. Did anyone even read my post? The last 2 rounds are NOT the only thing that matters. If you push a faction to their fort, and you let your border shrink, YOU WOULD HAVE 0 TERRITORIES while the other 2 factions had close to 30 each. You could NEVER recover in the last 2 rounds and win the faction war if you are losing for 90% of the time.

BearB0NES
02-14-2017, 04:43 AM
Your scenario is not a realistic scenario. That is why it is disregarded.

This game always attempts to auto balance the assets. It does this by tiles not starting at 50/50 split assets. If you pay attention you will notice losing faction starting off with 5% advantages and so on.

Also if your faction only has 10 tiles you have a much smaller front to have to defend thus you it is easier for the faction to focus their assets.

THUS, your scenario is extremely rare. as in like next to impossible to happen. Think about it for one moment please. Do you really think any faction is going to get wiped off the board so that all they have is their home tile? That is completely ludicrous.

Instead you will see exactly what happened in the beta. Where the lowest a faction will go is roughly 10 tiles and the highest you will really see a faction is around 30 tiles.

Which means in 2 turns the faction with 10 tiles because they will have loosers advantage 2 turns in a row can easily sweep their fronts 2 times in a row and go from 10 tiles to 25 tiles *Cough* Knights *Cough*