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View Full Version : I feel like all of the characters are balanced pretty well



Fibrillous
02-12-2017, 11:51 PM
I've seen so many threads complaining about how assassins are broken but I really don't think that's the case. The game plays out in a very rock-paper-scissors fashion. For every attack, there is a counter. I've played through every character during my time in the closed and open beta and feel that no one character is drastically overpowered and no one character is drastically underpowered. I do feel that the buff of kensei's light attacks was deserved, but they all function smoothly and fairly.

DemeDesu
02-12-2017, 11:52 PM
i 100% agree with this post all the heroes are pretty well balanced and you just need to learn how they play and then they are fairly easy to counter

i K33L n0085
02-13-2017, 12:16 AM
Just because every attack is technically counter able does not mean it's balanced. Why do you think 90% of all brawls and duels are full of orochis and peacekeepers? Because most of the players (including me) do not have the reaction time required to counter them if they constantly mix up their attacks. Their low health doesn't even matter when I can't get an attack off, and even when I do, I run out of stamina way faster then they run out of health, and then it's back to getting barraged by ridiculously fast attacks and cheap guard breaks, which don't ever end because assassins have practically infinite stamina.

DeLatv
02-13-2017, 12:27 AM
No they are not all ballanced. Warder and Warlord is unbeatable in skilled hands.

**** the assasins, they are noobstompers. The real problems are Headbuts and Sholder charges. It specially when ur out of stamina, as heroes lacking them u can stand and defend your self. Good luck defending against shoulder charge fake into guard break into huge top heavy attack... U cant. U have to doge shulder charge, cos u cant block it or stop it, and dodgeing it allow warder to get unblockable guard break.

And here is another combo. Lets say you are Orochi.

Warden starts shoulder charge, what do you do? You doge, cool. Expirience warden cancels and goes for guard break, thats unblockable cos of recover animation, free big hit.
Ohh ur orochi? U gonna do the dodge dash strike? Well Warden can just cancel and parry your strike and again do huge damage, into another shoulder charge, what do you do? You dodge? Its risky its 50/50 if hes guard breaking or waiting for you to strike and he can repeat and repeat and repeat, each time u loose 50/50 u loose 1/3 of your hp. He looses 25% stamina.
Not to mention theyr supper fast top attack and zone attack... For extra free hits as they are impossible to parry vs warden who mixes in fakes here and there to for ****s and giggles..

Its a circle of huge reward, little risk for the warden that he can repeat until you guess right (even then he can repeat it soon enough) or you die, or after 4 times hes out of stamina... (4 TRIES LOL)

Good luck. I think im decent Kensei with 2.14 KDA (played only 1v1/2v2 with 76% winrate). And I get smashed by Wardens like trash and warlords too... But every other class is absolutely fine (Well i have trouble with Conqurers, but they are diffirent topic, hate to play against them cos its supper defensive type match with a lot of patience).

So u guys havent just fought good wardens yet, this is why u dont complain about them.

Warlord is a bit weaker, but headbutt still is dumb, compared to other heroes who doesnt have, dumb ability thats not part of a chain is much much more easyer to defend and fight against...

Godsplitter1991
02-13-2017, 12:31 AM
As a berseker, I will agree with you. Only thing I hate fighting against is conqueror, he's a HARD counter to me. So I literally just dodge, GB into wall, top heavy all day. I don't care if it's dishonorable if I throw him off a ledge, he's taking a swim EVERY time. I just can't stand having to wait him out. Oh and I deflect just about every charged flail he throws. Poop his stamina. Neutered conqueror.

Damage_Incorp
02-13-2017, 12:33 AM
As a berseker, I will agree with you. Only thing I hate fighting against is conqueror, he's a HARD counter to me. So I literally just dodge, GB into wall, top heavy all day. I don't care if it's dishonorable if I throw him off a ledge, he's taking a swim EVERY time. I just can't stand having to wait him out. Oh and I deflect just about every charged flail he throws. Poop his stamina. Neutered conqueror.

LOL , charged flail should be used as a deflect itself

Vikko2
02-13-2017, 09:42 AM
No they are not all ballanced. Warder and Warlord is unbeatable in skilled hands.

**** the assasins, they are noobstompers. The real problems are Headbuts and Sholder charges. It specially when ur out of stamina, as heroes lacking them u can stand and defend your self. Good luck defending against shoulder charge fake into guard break into huge top heavy attack... U cant. U have to doge shulder charge, cos u cant block it or stop it, and dodgeing it allow warder to get unblockable guard break.

And here is another combo. Lets say you are Orochi.

Warden starts shoulder charge, what do you do? You doge, cool. Expirience warden cancels and goes for guard break, thats unblockable cos of recover animation, free big hit.
Ohh ur orochi? U gonna do the dodge dash strike? Well Warden can just cancel and parry your strike and again do huge damage, into another shoulder charge, what do you do? You dodge? Its risky its 50/50 if hes guard breaking or waiting for you to strike and he can repeat and repeat and repeat, each time u loose 50/50 u loose 1/3 of your hp. He looses 25% stamina.
Not to mention theyr supper fast top attack and zone attack... For extra free hits as they are impossible to parry vs warden who mixes in fakes here and there to for ****s and giggles..

Its a circle of huge reward, little risk for the warden that he can repeat until you guess right (even then he can repeat it soon enough) or you die, or after 4 times hes out of stamina... (4 TRIES LOL)

Good luck. I think im decent Kensei with 2.14 KDA (played only 1v1/2v2 with 76% winrate). And I get smashed by Wardens like trash and warlords too... But every other class is absolutely fine (Well i have trouble with Conqurers, but they are diffirent topic, hate to play against them cos its supper defensive type match with a lot of patience).

So u guys havent just fought good wardens yet, this is why u dont complain about them.

Warlord is a bit weaker, but headbutt still is dumb, compared to other heroes who doesnt have, dumb ability thats not part of a chain is much much more easyer to defend and fight against...

So your biggest complaint is Warden shoulder charge into guard break?
You do realize that most classes have an attack that is fast enough to hit them before the charge even begins. Shoulder charge is unblockable but not uninterruptable.
You also seem to have the same mentality as many Orochi that zone attack is impossible to block when all you need to do is guard your left side, as the rest of the directions are slow enough to (at the very least) block. It's as if people believe that if they can't block it without changing their playstyle, it needs to be changed. Many people I've fought begin guarding their left side as advised after they notice, and the fight becomes more difficult for me as a result.

Also, countering guard break should be entirely possible any time you get hit by one, as far as I know. On top of that, double slash into shoulder charge/guardbreak chain is a bread and butter for Warden that would destroy the character if it were removed without precise tweaking and research on how to change it.

Warden's biggest strength and weakness is the fact of how simplistic the moveset is, and there are many people who make use of this information.
If it matters, I have about the same KDA and winrate as you do, playing Warden. As a Warden with predictable moveset, it becomes vital to analyze and change playstyle accordingly to who you fight in order to win. It isn't a 'fight only one way all the time' (orochi and peacekeeper) affair.

To state my personal opinion, I honestly think the game is pretty well balanced as well.

CrestfallenNito
02-13-2017, 09:46 AM
I feel like there just needs to be some very minor tweaks. For example, in the Technical test a lot of people complained about the valkyrie, and with pretty good reason. I felt she would've been fixed pretty easily but just slowing down some of her attacks a tiny bit, that's all it really would've taken. I feel like the same could be applied to the peacekeeper after this beta, just slow down some of her moves a tiny bit, and make her grab-n-stab not deal half of a players health bar in one go

B3N--
02-13-2017, 09:50 AM
They have done a lot of testing and tweaking, that's why the balance is almost good now.

Vikko2
02-13-2017, 10:11 AM
I feel like there just needs to be some very minor tweaks. For example, in the Technical test a lot of people complained about the valkyrie, and with pretty good reason. I felt she would've been fixed pretty easily but just slowing down some of her attacks a tiny bit, that's all it really would've taken. I feel like the same could be applied to the peacekeeper after this beta, just slow down some of her moves a tiny bit, and make her grab-n-stab not deal half of a players health bar in one go

Isn't the grab-n-stab attack breakable? I've mashed guard break as their guard break comes out, and if that doesn't stop the guard break- I continue to mash it and the Peacekeeper only gets maybe one stab before I shove them off, which is just barely below 1 bar of HP. Am I one of the only few who know about this? It's made fighting Peacekeepers who rely on the attack much more bearable and seems to scare them off from doing it.

CrestfallenNito
02-13-2017, 10:31 AM
Isn't the grab-n-stab attack breakable? I've mashed guard break as their guard break comes out, and if that doesn't stop the guard break- I continue to mash it and the Peacekeeper only gets maybe one stab before I shove them off, which is just barely below 1 bar of HP. Am I one of the only few who know about this? It's made fighting Peacekeepers who rely on the attack much more bearable and seems to scare them off from doing it.

If they manage to guard break you there isn't anything you can do about the damage. Them getting the three stabs comes down to timing their attacks, and it looks like they widened the timing for those stabs significantly. I've seen very few Peacekeepers mess up their bleed stabs

Vikko2
02-13-2017, 11:54 AM
If they manage to guard break you there isn't anything you can do about the damage. Them getting the three stabs comes down to timing their attacks, and it looks like they widened the timing for those stabs significantly. I've seen very few Peacekeepers mess up their bleed stabs

Really? Wow, that's kind of disappointing because it seemed like trying to break during it was actually working. I guess a couple of them just haven't gotten the timing down yet. I was surprised that I only fought a couple of them, though I did play trying to fend off any chances at a guard break earlier on.

Brave_Thunder
02-13-2017, 12:01 PM
The stabs can be parryed.It happened to me sometimes,I think that you have to parry in the direction of the pk guard before the Gb.

Knight_Raime
02-13-2017, 12:59 PM
for the most part the hero balance has a solid base. But there are still many areas that can be improved upon from character specific to general combat.

Illyrian_King
02-13-2017, 01:11 PM
The classes and the combat system is overall fine!

Dukat
02-13-2017, 01:29 PM
The classes and the combat system is overall fine!

100% Agreed.

DeLatv
02-13-2017, 02:22 PM
@Vikko2
Ur a bit mistaken. Im not saying that shoulder charge into guard break is the problem. But its part of the bigger problem. Warden has too many tools. Kenseis attacks are slow and telegraphed, he has to out smart/trick the opponent to get an advantage, kensei doesnt have press button into instant strike.

Warden has shoulder charge, he can spam he has zone attack thats a heavy attack and faster than Kensei fast attack has top attack that has same sound when he makes zone attack which is confusing. When you give enemy the tool to terrify opponent with shoulder charge, and can sneak supper fast attacks that are UNPARRIABLE BY HUMAN REACTIONS (Cos you have to guess ether its from top or right side, its 50/50), are dumb. Its too much guess work. Its broken compared to other heroes. You cant give the hero an terrifying shoulder charge, lightning fast zone attack and TOP attack. If he had shoulder charge guard break removed and slowed down top OR zone attack, then it would be fine. Cos shoulder charge wouldnt hurt to doge, and when you hear that ******ed scream and green lights from warden you could mucle memory to block that side... Right now, its circle vortex. Warden shoulder charges, 1/3 option is correct, you miss, you get hit, rince and repeat till your enemy is down.

I know this because I fought god warden player, he was insane. And when i sayd thats ********, he agreed, that if he played any other hero, he wouldnt roflstomp me like a kitten.

ABamboozler
02-13-2017, 02:36 PM
Holy ****
Noone cares about your perspective after 2 days or one week
No game is balanced at launch and never will be regardless of how many of these stupid posts you people create
Either discuss something about balance in particular or shut up already

Tocki92
02-13-2017, 03:00 PM
Holy ****
Noone cares about your perspective after 2 days or one week
No game is balanced at launch and never will be regardless of how many of these stupid posts you people create
Either discuss something about balance in particular or shut up already
What the heck is wrong with your life?
Does it make you feel better by insulting ppl without any reasons?

samsy19
02-13-2017, 04:29 PM
No. You are mostly wrong.

While yes, most characters do have counters... Some characters are much, much harder to counter.

For example, peacekeeper light attack mix ups cost virtually no stamina and can be spammed with speed faster than a person can move their hand after the 0.25 second reaction time of a human.

However,
There are characters that are WAY too easy to counter, therefore they fall way behind that of peacekeeper, oroichi and warlord.

The raider is the easiest character to counter. His lights have no range so if you just sit back and forward dash light spam as peacekeeper you will have no worries as parrying these attacks is near to impossible.
His heavies are so slow that you can parry them with ease.

Now, you may say, well, why don't you just feint a heavy, parry the enemy's now incoming heavy attack and hit them back?

Well this is the issue. The raider only has enough time after a parry to light attack. Heavy attacks are slow enough that they can be blocked (Unlike oroichi, peacekeeper grab stab, kensei heavy attack, warlord heavy attack... you see where i am going with this?)

So, the only other option is to throw them to the floor or into a wall, correct? No. The exact same issue occurs. There is still enough time to block heavies even if you are thrown to the floor with no stamina and his attacks are so easy to telegraph that blocking his heavies even while dazed against a wall will not work.

So, now what? You can't get rewards out of parrying or grabbing? Well, he does have that nifty heavy -> up jab feint he has. However, this will not work either, the opponent just has to simply hold their guard up and if you don't do the feint they still have plenty time to move their guard to where the heavy attack is coming from.


So no, not all classes are balanced, some are much more powerful than others as they are harder to deal with due to dodge attacks, free heavy attacks or other enhanced attacks after parries and speed of attack.


You are completely wrong.

The_B0G_
02-13-2017, 05:01 PM
The game feels balanced to me as well. People need to stop complaining and get better at the game, the more you play, the more balanced the game seems.

Master any hero and learn all his moves and you will beat most people regardless of their class choice.

samsy19
02-13-2017, 05:39 PM
Master any hero and learn all his moves and you will beat most people regardless of their class choice.

Okay, so if two people of close to equal skill fight but one is the raider and the other is the peacekeeper who do you think will win?

Peacekeeper has more range, she's faster, she has great parry / guard break follow up.

The raider in comparison has much less range yet a larger weapon, he's the slowest character in the game and his only guaranteed follow up after a guard break or parry is a light attack as everything else can be stopped.


So no, not all classes are balanced, some are much better than others. I could go into detail about other class comparisons if the raider and peacekeeper one isn't enough.

theromanticswb
02-13-2017, 05:40 PM
Just because every attack is technically counter able does not mean it's balanced. Why do you think 90% of all brawls and duels are full of orochis and peacekeepers? Because most of the players (including me) do not have the reaction time required to counter them if they constantly mix up their attacks. Their low health doesn't even matter when I can't get an attack off, and even when I do, I run out of stamina way faster then they run out of health, and then it's back to getting barraged by ridiculously fast attacks and cheap guard breaks, which don't ever end because assassins have practically infinite stamina.

They're constantly full of Orochis and PK's because you haven't progressed to a high technical level of player yet with your hidden MMR from winning matches. The majority of the community, 56%, played Assassin classes in the last beta. That's because kids want to be ninjas. That's all. Not because those classes are OP. Right now Orochi and PK are not even S tier characters. Warden is for example.

theromanticswb
02-13-2017, 05:45 PM
No they are not all ballanced. Warder and Warlord is unbeatable in skilled hands.

**** the assasins, they are noobstompers. The real problems are Headbuts and Sholder charges. It specially when ur out of stamina, as heroes lacking them u can stand and defend your self. Good luck defending against shoulder charge fake into guard break into huge top heavy attack... U cant. U have to doge shulder charge, cos u cant block it or stop it, and dodgeing it allow warder to get unblockable guard break.

And here is another combo. Lets say you are Orochi.

Warden starts shoulder charge, what do you do? You doge, cool. Expirience warden cancels and goes for guard break, thats unblockable cos of recover animation, free big hit.
Ohh ur orochi? U gonna do the dodge dash strike? Well Warden can just cancel and parry your strike and again do huge damage, into another shoulder charge, what do you do? You dodge? Its risky its 50/50 if hes guard breaking or waiting for you to strike and he can repeat and repeat and repeat, each time u loose 50/50 u loose 1/3 of your hp. He looses 25% stamina.
Not to mention theyr supper fast top attack and zone attack... For extra free hits as they are impossible to parry vs warden who mixes in fakes here and there to for ****s and giggles..

Its a circle of huge reward, little risk for the warden that he can repeat until you guess right (even then he can repeat it soon enough) or you die, or after 4 times hes out of stamina... (4 TRIES LOL)

Good luck. I think im decent Kensei with 2.14 KDA (played only 1v1/2v2 with 76% winrate). And I get smashed by Wardens like trash and warlords too... But every other class is absolutely fine (Well i have trouble with Conqurers, but they are diffirent topic, hate to play against them cos its supper defensive type match with a lot of patience).

So u guys havent just fought good wardens yet, this is why u dont complain about them.

Warlord is a bit weaker, but headbutt still is dumb, compared to other heroes who doesnt have, dumb ability thats not part of a chain is much much more easyer to defend and fight against...

More nonsense. Get to a higher technical level.

You are on the right track about the headbut and shoulder barge but you definitely can counter them. The devs are already on the case with those as well. They already nerfed some aspects of the head but in the last beta.

You're totally wrong about the Orochi thing. Orochi CAN tech a guard break after he dodges. He can do it just fine. Your timing is off.

Warden is is S tier right now. Warrior is not. I'm confused half the time which one you're referring to cause you keep saying Warder a lot...

theromanticswb
02-13-2017, 05:47 PM
If they manage to guard break you there isn't anything you can do about the damage. Them getting the three stabs comes down to timing their attacks, and it looks like they widened the timing for those stabs significantly. I've seen very few Peacekeepers mess up their bleed stabs

That is supposedly nerfed in release version. The bleed does less the half the damage now that it did in beta.

theromanticswb
02-13-2017, 05:48 PM
The stabs can be parryed.It happened to me sometimes,I think that you have to parry in the direction of the pk guard before the Gb.

That is a bug that will be fixed. You can not block confirms.