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View Full Version : Is the conqueror OP? (Poll/Discussion)



SillyDucklings
02-12-2017, 05:32 PM
Before I say anything, IMO nothing is so OP that it needs to be addressed immediately. But the constant barrage of people saying I have no honor, or that I should rethink my life for maining conqueror, has gotten pretty annoying over the duration of the closed and open beta, so I'd like to know if I'm crazy, or if everyone else sees things as I do.

I think he's pretty balanced overall, but slightly underpowered. Because of how little damage I do while having very little extra HP compared to other heroes, I have to get in good punishes on their mistakes quite a few times more than they do on me to win the match. His attacks are also extremely slow, and easy to parry. He's pretty good in dominion, but there's no reason to pick conqueror over warlord if you want a heavy. Yes his shield bash is difficult to counter, but so are all the other unblockable bashes, which all basically do the same thing.

For reference, here's a link to the damage values for the currently released heroes > http://bit.ly/2lEXVJZ

And here's the strawpoll > http://www.strawpoll.me/12323912

I'd like to hear your opinions on whether he's balanced or not as well, because like I said, it's been a constant barrage of hate for me this weekend. Maybe it's just that way for everyone though, and I should just wait until ranked comes out to play with more competent people.

nipop0
02-12-2017, 05:36 PM
No, he isn't overpowered, but he is really cheap. So many times I have been flung off building by him. Most the people that are complaining are just bad, I used to think he was OP but once I learned how to use my class better it wasn't bad.

Wateverdude
02-12-2017, 05:42 PM
Conqueror main here. He a bit underpowered imo

- He only have 1 playstyle and can't adapt to certain situations
- He have bad wave clear
- Combos can be easy side-stepped
- Parry punish him heavily due to his stamina consumption
- Lack of reliable damage
- Warlords can do all his job, and do it better.

OtsuWow
02-12-2017, 05:57 PM
He suffers at the highest level of play. He has to use his "all guard" to cancel heavy attacks, which costs more stamina than normal feinting. He also suffers because his heavy attack does not deal enough dmg to break through regenerated hp. Spinning the flail is never going to work at the highest lvl. The opponent will just wait untill your stam is lower.
He does however get great mixups after a heavy (he can either shield bash or guard break the dodge. And if the opponent goes for a side dodge attack he can parry)
His shield charge may seem cheesy, and its recovery frames are probhably a bit too fast, making it very hard to punish.

Also, his lights are slow

Shinimas
02-12-2017, 06:00 PM
He has no offense. That's the crux of the problem with him. Top tier characters like Warden and PK have fast, relatively safe offense and mix-ups that allow them to put some damage in, although they fight from defense mainly. Conqueror doesn't really have mix-ups, the ghetto feint is too slow and doesn't combo into anything really good. The main way to kill people in this game is parrying into GB into side heavy and his side heavies is one of the weakest in the game.

There is another thing. If you BLOCK his light attack you can guard break him and it's guaranteed. I will repeat. Blocking his light attacks leads to an un-techable guard break on the Conqueror. Let it sink in.

By the way, did you know Conq has deflect? Works totally the same way as Assassin's deflect and you can follow it up with the shield bash.

Sakinahz
02-12-2017, 06:05 PM
First, this is a competitive game,you will always get hate measage calling your character op no matter who you play.

Conquerer is somewhat weak,in fact in about a month no high skilled 1v1 or 2v2 match will ever have a conquerer.Maybe he will still get picked in dominion a bit, but thats about it.

He is almost the equivalent of a one trick pony,he has no effective way to deal damage,he cant really feint,hell if your enemy know the very basic conq attack paterns he will parry,dodge everything you throw at him.

You know who calls him OP? Noobs who havent learned the game that keep spamming thier light attacks against him.They havent learned any other way to win and they cry and cry because the only way the know how to play isnt working against him.

Warlord can do everything better than a conquerer right now and there is no real reason to pick a conq over a warlord except for fun or fun match ups/team building.

He is a very good noob stomper but somewhat underpowered right now in any 1v1 situation.

TheEpicRage
02-12-2017, 06:05 PM
I played a ton of Raider closed beta so this time I've been playing a bunch of conquerer, he's pretty spot on balance wise in my opinion. Maybe a tad on the weaker side as you vs better players.

But he will get you tons of hate mail from people who exclusively play assassins and tend to try spamming attacks as he can punish them very hard.

Sakinahz
02-12-2017, 06:12 PM
He has no offense. That's the crux of the problem with him. Top tier characters like Warden and PK have fast, relatively safe offense and mix-ups that allow them to put some damage in, although they fight from defense mainly. Conqueror doesn't really have mix-ups, the ghetto feint is too slow and doesn't combo into anything really good. The main way to kill people in this game is parrying into GB into side heavy and his side heavies is one of the weakest in the game.

There is another thing. If you BLOCK his light attack you can guard break him and it's guaranteed. I will repeat. Blocking his light attacks leads to an un-techable guard break on the Conqueror. Let it sink in.

By the way, did you know Conq has deflect? Works totally the same way as Assassin's deflect and you can follow it up with the shield bash.

Wow i have to test that.If its true that blocking his lights leads to a untechable guardbreak the conq will be a useless piece of walking metal in no time after release.

Xantos214
02-12-2017, 06:16 PM
No class is op, those other players should try getting used to all the classes so they know how they work. I've gone into plenty of matchs vs the conqueror with multiple characters and I can't say anyone one is better.

GewaltSam
02-12-2017, 06:24 PM
I wish he could dodge forward while spinning his mace. More advanced enemies often make room between them and you, and you can only cancel and get closer. If you got them cornered, you don't need to charge, because you want hits in quick succession.

EetDrinkBeBerry
02-12-2017, 06:33 PM
I maimed conq as well the last 3 tests. He seems fine to me. His block interrupt is very good, he can walk people into corners then use his shield charge mix up. His game really shines in dominion.

RatedChaotic
02-12-2017, 06:33 PM
I main a conq and have to say. The players that think hes weak just dont know how to play him. The players that say hes op just dont know how to fight him. Look at this thread the comments are all over the place.

Its player skill mostly.

Shinimas
02-12-2017, 06:37 PM
I main a conq and have to say. The players that think hes weak just dont know how to play him. The players that say hes op just dont know how to fight him. Look at this thread the comments are all over the place.

Its player skill mostly.

Just because there are two polarizing opinions present doesn't mean the truth is in the middle.

RatedChaotic
02-12-2017, 06:42 PM
Just because there are two polarizing opinions present doesn't mean the truth is in the middle.

Are implying my middle opinion is also wrong? lol get real bro. Players will always have different opinions. Doesnt mean any of them are wrong. I was just pointing out that not every hero is for everyone. Hence why we get mixed opinions.

Now if this thread had more players leaning more to hes OP then that would be something to take a look at. But its clearly mixed.

Shinimas
02-12-2017, 06:58 PM
Are implying my middle opinion is also wrong? lol get real bro. Players will always have different opinions. Doesnt mean any of them are wrong. I was just pointing out that not every hero is for everyone. Hence why we get mixed opinions.

Now if this thread had more players leaning more to hes OP then that would be something to take a look at. But its clearly mixed.

Sure. Let's just wait and see. Actually the top heroes in tournaments were Warlords and PKs for quite some time now... but I'm sure it doesn't say anything. Just opinions.

SillyDucklings
02-12-2017, 07:33 PM
I main a conq and have to say. The players that think hes weak just dont know how to play him. The players that say hes op just dont know how to fight him. Look at this thread the comments are all over the place.

Its player skill mostly.

I have a 94% winrate with him and still think he's not good. If I face a good player, it's very difficult to win due to how little damage I do. Take a look at the chart I posted, he does the least damage of any class by a sizable margin. There's also nothing he can do that a good warden or warlord can't do better. His bashes are faster than that of a warden, but his followup on said bash is half as strong. If against a good player, pretty much the only thing you can do is bash into light attack, or try to get a "feint" off and bash into light. They aren't going let you push them against a wall for a free heavy, they aren't going to run at you when you charge your heavy, they'll just poke you down because they do twice as much damage as you.

He sucks at punishing because of his very low burst compared to other classes. And in a duel with two highly skilled players, consistent damage is NEVER going to happen, unless someone chokes extremely hard. In a duel with highly skilled players, punishing is all you do, and you almost never get off more then 1-2 attacks.

LordKaterchen
02-12-2017, 07:58 PM
@SillyDucklings:

I actually agree with you completely. I have been maining a Kensei for all test versions until open Beta and then in open beta tried maining the conquerer. About 20 hours in I also have an above 80% winrate and it's fun and feels well.

But I started dueling with a PK friend for a few hours and I was winning most duels at the very start. But after teaching him all my attack patterns and their weaknesses (especially of the shield bash mixup) he could counter and punish all my high risk high reward choices so reliably that I was reduced to using lights and GB+side heavy and he started winning most of the fights with superior mobility and damage. We really treid a lot, strategized and attempted different things but neither of us had any solution to the problem.

I was planning to keep my Kensei as main on release anyway (not that he is especially powerful, it's mostly a choice of taste) but it really discouraged my choice of conqueror as my heavy.

SillyDucklings
02-12-2017, 08:19 PM
@SillyDucklings:

I actually agree with you completely. I have been maining a Kensei for all test versions until open Beta and then in open beta tried maining the conquerer. About 20 hours in I also have an above 80% winrate and it's fun and feels well.

But I started dueling with a PK friend for a few hours and I was winning most duels at the very start. But after teaching him all my attack patterns and their weaknesses (especially of the shield bash mixup) he could counter and punish all my high risk high reward choices so reliably that I was reduced to using lights and GB+side heavy and he started winning most of the fights with superior mobility and damage. We really treid a lot, strategized and attempted different things but neither of us had any solution to the problem.

I was planning to keep my Kensei as main on release anyway (not that he is especially powerful, it's mostly a choice of taste) but it really discouraged my choice of conqueror as my heavy.

You can block GB into side heavy, only GB into light is guaranteed. Unless you're talking about GBing him then pushing him into a wall, in which case a heavy is guaranteed.

LordKaterchen
02-12-2017, 08:23 PM
You can block GB into side heavy, only GB into light is guaranteed. Unless you're talking about GBing him then pushing him into a wall, in which case a heavy is guaranteed.

Are you sure?

Assuming that you are it would be even worse. And yes heavy after wall-stun is combo.

Still, just means that it is even worse than I assumed.

Mid_Evil
02-12-2017, 08:28 PM
Conqueror main here. He a bit underpowered imo

- He only have 1 playstyle and can't adapt to certain situations
- He have bad wave clear
- Combos can be easy side-stepped
- Parry punish him heavily due to his stamina consumption
- Lack of reliable damage
- Warlords can do all his job, and do it better.

Only thing i dont agree with is that Warlords are better. I would much rather go up against a warlord than a Conqueror. But shield classes are hard for assassin types. I don't feel anything in this game needs tweaked as far as balance. Just certain classes do better against others. The people that complain a class is OP dont even go and try to play that class and learn its playstyle to learn ways around it.

GIS.Aimylee
02-12-2017, 09:37 PM
i think that if some people says that one particular class is OP probably the class have a lot of problems that must be solved. I have seen many people with easy classes to spam the same attack uncounterable. This makes the game unbalanced and the people will choose this class for easy victory. The game will be an arena of Conquerors and Warlords. In this moment this classes is very OP IMO. Maybe a little nerf to the power attack or stamina can be good for balance all classes. Or making the thrusts more easy to evade.
Finally it was made a difficult and funny game with a different style where the people fight at same level. Hope stay this way with right changes. There isn't more to say for me.

wefal
02-12-2017, 09:46 PM
I think you fought against newbies because I never had problem vs Conqueror.
I main Kensei and I'm having problems mainly agaist Orochi & Peacekeeper.

SillyDucklings
02-12-2017, 09:48 PM
i think that if some people says that one particular class is OP probably the class have a lot of problems that must be solved. I have seen many people with easy classes to spam the same attack uncounterable. This makes the game unbalanced and the people will choose this class for easy victory. The game will be an arena of Conquerors and Warlords. In this moment this classes is very OP IMO. Maybe a little nerf to the power attack or stamina can be good for balance all classes. Or making the thrusts more easy to evade.
Finally it was made a difficult and funny game with a different style where the people fight at same level. Hope stay this way with right changes. There isn't more to say for me.

1 : If people complain about a class being OP without being able to pony up the stats/arguments to support their claims, they're probably just dumb.

2 : All attacks have a counter, and spamming anything is a bad idea.

3 : Are you saying the heavy attack on conqueror or warlord is OP, or are you referring to the charged heavy attack on the conqueror? Either way you're wrong. The charged heavy is extremely easy to counter, and the normal heavies of both classes don't do that much damage. (especially the conqueror)

Seraphid
02-12-2017, 10:00 PM
I think it's not OP but there's one thing that they should fix.

When a conqueror enters in vengeance mode, you're dead. No matter what you try. If he just makes heavy+shield charge he will make you fall down. The cheesy point is that he can repeat this indefinitely because infinite stamina. So if they manage to activate vengeance when you're hitting them, you're gone. I don't think it is really fair to punish one action with your whole life

GewaltSam
02-13-2017, 01:22 AM
I think it's not OP but there's one thing that they should fix.

When a conqueror enters in vengeance mode, you're dead. No matter what you try. If he just makes heavy+shield charge he will make you fall down. The cheesy point is that he can repeat this indefinitely because infinite stamina. So if they manage to activate vengeance when you're hitting them, you're gone. I don't think it is really fair to punish one action with your whole life

Dodging works great against the shield bash, and after you dodge that, he's a pretty open motherfracker.

Arkhos1988
02-13-2017, 01:28 AM
He seems balanced except in very uncordinated teamfights, couse just hiting him with 4 people and hope to kill him is just dum.

droper66
02-13-2017, 02:34 AM
From a kensei's perspective he is tough to hit, the best way to beat them is to throw them off. They are a reactive character, they wait for you to test their impressive defenses and then they punish you for it. Its kind of annoying really since its not the funnest thing to fight against, but it is beatable.

XxKILLASEEDxX
02-13-2017, 04:56 AM
I wish he could dodge forward while spinning his mace. More advanced enemies often make room between them and you, and you can only cancel and get closer. If you got them cornered, you don't need to charge, because you want hits in quick succession.

I think it'd be awesome if he could spin up his mace from side to side you know, from left to right,left, right, and then feint from that or attack, surely he'd be more unpredictable then!